Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - JJ McCarthy felt 'in sync' vs. Dallas. Can he keep rolling in NY? (Part 2)

Episode Date: December 18, 2025

Matthew Coller talks about JJ McCarthy's comments on his improved play, KOC's answer about 'adjustments,' Joe Burrow saying some very, very interesting stuff and Josh Metellus being out for the year. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This episode of Purple Insider is presented by Fandul. Let's see, Greg says McCarthy hit the lowest at Green Bay. He could not get worse. Now he's making good strides forward. Right. And that probably does correlate with the circumstances. But also if he got down on himself and he let the criticism or he let, you know, what happened in Green Bay crush him, then we wouldn't be talking about progress for the last two weeks.

Nick says, oh, stop, Nick. You know, he goes to the injury route. Yeah, don't go there.

Don't go to the injury route, Nick. That's just, this, that's why, you know, I never talk about unless we have to, unless guys are actually injured.

Well, what if he gets hurt? Because that's just so depressing. So I don't go there. Hey, if you're just joining and you didn't catch the Fandul question of the day, That is, both Jackson Darden and J.J. McCarthy for this game have under 200 yards as they're over unders. You don't see that too often. Do you think this is going to be ugly, low scoring, or a shootout between and those guys hitting the overs with Josh Mattelis and Jonathan Grenard not playing?

Let me get back to your comments. Let's see. Friends of Taz, J.J. McCarthy is going to develop into a franchise quarterback we all wanted. KOC is going to be part of it. it just sucks to go through the growth i wasn't sure until that sick fake and gritty touchdown uh yeah i don't know i mean that was a really nice play i don't know if there's i i don't think it's possible to have one moment where you go that's it that is the moment it's really cinematic to put it that way and maybe for you it's that way it's just for me i'm just sharing my different perspective for me it's and uh you sort of you sort of live your life this way where are you relying

all the time at your job or do you only show up some of the time and when you do you're you do a good job but hey if you're not there all the time doing consistently well oh you've heard you've probably heard this at any job you have you know when this person's motivated they're they do well to me that's not a good that's not a good employee like congrats on congrats on trying sometimes like that's just you don't get rewarded for that and i'm not saying he's not trying but like congrats you perform well sometimes but it needs to me it's all about bigger pictures, bigger sample sizes, how often, this is what so much of it comes down to, how often are you good in the NFL determines the elite versus the, because look, every

quarterback has great games, but how often do you have them? And I think of this for basketball players all the time. I looked this up last year with Nefisa Collier and her MVP candidacy. And I was looking up, like, how often does Nefisa Collier have a good game? And there's a basketball reference thing called game score. How often does it reach a certain level that's like a really good game? And it was something like 70% of games. What a freak.

She's awesome kind of thing with quarterbacks where at Patrick Mahomes' absolute best, he's not always throwing for 500, but how often it is absolute best in his prime? did he reach the level of being a very, very good quarterback? And the answer was like 90% of games. And for Kirk, it was like 70% of games, which means you're certainly a starting quarterback in the league. But if you're at 50% of the games, probably not. That's the small margins of the NFL.

So I think what you're saying, it is possible that these two will go together and make a big jump next year. And then where does that jump ultimately land them? uh let's see the nige is that it uh says uh the whole trade addison narrative is complete nonsense to me we just went through this by letting go of bynum and even madison a couple years ago i wouldn't toss madison into this but i get where you're going with the bynum thing uh don't bank on an unproven player in a contract year certainly it is a tough decision for them because of how much receivers cost it is very clear how Kevin O'Connell feels about Jordan Addison. There is no question about it. He loves Jordan Addison. He wants him to be here as his number two wide receiver.

And I mean, the guy's darn near built in a lab to play for O'Connell, right? Like the route running, the deep, the hands going up and getting it. And there's also something, and I made a hockey reference earlier. So let me try again with one of those. When Quinn Hughes is on your team, then everybody, else gets to slot one spot down, which is probably one spot easier. And when Jordan Addison is your number two wide receiver and Naylor could be your number three, that role becomes one spot easier.

So if you were going to sign Jalen Naylor to be your number two, and then you have to replace your number three, maybe that's Ty Felton, you have to replace your number three, who has, at least from what coaches have said about him, is done well this year behind the scenes, but no receivers have been hurt, so he hasn't gotten in. But if you're slotting him up, then you're moving in an unproven player, and then Naylor's job is going to be harder. And does he perform the same when the job is harder? KJ. Osborne, I think, found this out.

Osborne, as you know, was a very good Minnesota Viking. Hasn't been a very good anything else. Well, do those teams have Justin Jefferson and Jordan Edison? Or at one time, you know, Jefferson and Thielen. They did, probably not, right? so he could slot very nicely. And this goes for a lot of players in the NFL. There are a lot of guys who are one wrong team or one wrong role away for being

completely out of the league who we think of as being good players. You know, and if I had to guess, I think that maybe they evaluated, and I don't mean out of the league, but like Cam Bynum was maybe evaluated a little that way of, well, you know, he's playing next to Harry and it's a different role and that kind of thing. And maybe it's not worth it. And I mean, I think it probably was. but that has certainly been true. That was true in the Anthony Harris case.

And I'm, you know, I loved covering Anthony Harris. He's a great, great person. And he was awesome in 2019. But I think even Anthony Harris would tell you that he benefited from playing with Harrison Smith quite a bit. So I think that Naylor does benefit. And I think he's very good. And he'll get paid. And I look forward to that for him for all the hard work that he did.

But Addison is sort of the. the real McCoy, if you want to use something like an old, an old saying, like this guy is a first round talent who's made every quarterback look better than they are for his entire career. He's really good. So I think they're going to keep him. And I agree with what you're saying is like when you have players that good, you keep them and you figure that out.

You don't get rid of the good players. Let's see. The Nige also wants to shut down Derasoff for the year. That's where I'm at. I just think don't risk anything. Adrian says they rushed him back and the knee hasn't fully recovered. Yeah, here's how it sounds to me is complicated. It sounds like it's just been complicated.

How Derisov feels about his own health, how the training staff views it. That's just from press conferences. That's not reporting. That's just from press conferences. Like it just, it has sounded like there has been maybe just discomfort there for Darisaw, but structurally and recovery-wise, it's okay. But if he's not feeling great about it when he's actually out there, he's the one that has to try to block Micah Parsons.

And that's where it becomes a tough situation for everybody. Chris says, do you wear pants when I do the podcast or just a shirt and a hat? I do wear pants. Yeah. Currently I have a pair of jeans on. I could stand up and show you those if you'd like. But shorts in the summer and often, I will say, often a nice pair of sweatpants because in my basement where my studio is, it'll get a little chilly down here sometimes.

So that's why you see the hoodie a lot. It just happens to be outside today, a nice day as opposed to minus 10. So we're good. But yes, yeah, that is a unique. We're not after 9 o'clock at night yet for asking that question. but yeah yeah i do uh nick says uh cd must have had much less successful surgery than they believed yes yeah this is the type of speculation that's really hard to get into someone has to tell us at some point of like here's what happened what i can put together from kevin o'connell

is that the acl is announced as an acl but there are different levels of acl and this one sounds like it had more levels to it than just hey, tour the ACL, so that thing back up, get back on the field in nine months. And that recovery is more complicated. So for Derisaw, he was pushing it a lot. It seemed in OTAs to get back out there in training camp, which gave us a certain impression. But Darisaw told us, myself and Andrew Kramer, talked to Darisaw in the locker room

after the Cincinnati game. And he told us like, hey, I'm actually way ahead of schedule. It's just you guys didn't know that. And that made me kind of scratch my head a little bit too. because I was like, well, why didn't anybody tell us that then? Then we wouldn't have said, hey, he could be back week one. So I was a little perplexed by that. And there just seems to be when he goes out and plays after that, there's discomfort.

So, you know, he plays against Philly, but then can't play a couple of nights later. He plays against Washington is great. And then can't play the next week. So something is happening. And that's probably very hard to predict if you're on the training staff, like, how is he going to come out of these games with swelling, with soreness, whatever it is. Nothing stinks more than dealing with an injury that won't go away.

And that's why I do think it's better for him probably to not play and shut it down and get back to 100% health going into next year because, man, they need them. I've seen some people throw that out there that kind of like, oh, well, you could trade CD. Nope, no, you can't. It's harder to get a franchise left tackle than it is a franchise quarterback. I would say that there's more franchise quarterbacks than there are franchise left tackles or at least the same amount of numbers and that's how hard it is. And Jay asked that question.

My answer is always going to be no with Christian Derisaw. This is a guy. It's been a hard year for him, but this is a guy you put in the ring of honor. Like he's that level of talented. He is someday someone that you put up there. Like he is that good. And you just need him to be healthy. And none of us really know, like, is it going to heal?

Is it going to be all right? but I'm not bailing now. No way. That's just too good and it's too hard to find somebody else. Let's see. Friends of Tass is the cost of Sam Darnold would have cost them one of the linemen. Sam won 14 games last year. So even adding one lineman, they would have still helped him.

Sam is not the expense people think. Yeah, you know, we relived the Sam thing a lot over this year. But I think it's pretty. clear that had they franchise tag Sam Darnold, they could have still done things. And I've liked Will Fries' season. I'd say it hasn't been perfect, but I think he's been a good addition. They still would have signed, I think, didn't they get Ryan Kelly first before Will Fries? So they still would have done that.

And they still would have ended up with Donovan Jackson's, the first round draft pick. I don't, I don't know exactly if that's the guy that would have gotten lopped off if you were franchise tagging or if it would have been. $21 million defensive tackles or, and look, no disrespect to Aaron Jones, but like an older $10 million running back or, you know, whoever it might have been. And I've gone back and forth on this a lot. Actually, I wrote about this.

Let me take a sip of Diet Dr. Pepper before I get into it. Thanks, Diet Dr. Pepper. So I wrote about this a little yesterday about Aaron Rogers, who has played absolutely awesome these last couple weeks. has Pittsburgh in the playoff race right now do the Vikings i mean with darnell it's pretty obvious right he knew the offense and he's continued to play extremely well i think he probably will get beat by the rams then everyone will say the things that they want to say about that but you know you drop to what are they 11 and 3 you drop to 11 and 4 okay well he's certainly proven his worth out

there with a very good season but um you know you'd be in the race and a lot of these things that we've had to talk about with the offense and adjustments or anything else they could have built on instead and they could have evaluated J.J. McCarthy behind the scenes and had a good sense of bringing him along. And then with the franchise tag, there's no commitment. And JJ would be the old age 23 and then right. So that works a lot. That one I think is very clear that that's what they should have done. Now, when it comes to Aaron Rogers, that's more complicated for me because Rogers would have been a little cheaper and he's playing really well, but I still can't get myself to a spot where I would have thought, no, it's better if they got Rogers. I would put finding out about

JJ and going through kind of hell with him at times and coming out of the other side as being better than bringing in Aaron Rogers because I still don't think he's going to play well enough to win a championship or to compete for one. I do think that Sam Darnold in a pretty flawed NFC outside of the Rams would have put the Vikings on this, you know, who knows what the butterfly wing flaps would have caused. But, you know, if Green Bay is not with Micah Parsons and the lions aren't that good and, you know, the bears are a little bit of, you know, excellent, a little bit of questionable, like how many turnovers can you get in a season?

Philadelphia is down. San Francisco is not that great. There's like one team that you're scared of. So you would have been right in that conversation, I think. especially since, you know, the specialists are great and Flores has done his thing and all that, right? I think you're right in that conversation if you have Sam Darnold. I'm not totally convinced of that if Rogers was in the NFC. Rogers is in a terrible division. The AFC has been, you know, pretty messy this year.

They played the bills a couple weeks ago, got smoked. And I'm not so sure. Like, even his numbers throwing intermediate have been really poor this year. I'm not so sure that that would have been a decision worth it. I don't think the darn old one is really debatable at this point. Let's see. Lenny says the Giants haven't been getting pressure recently, even with all the talent. They are fourth worst and total pressures the last four weeks. That's some great stat work, Mr. Lenny. And you are right on about that because that team has mailed it in. But they've got the capability, though. And that's the thing, right? Like Brian Burns wants some sacks. What do they do last week. I'm going to look at their D-line for last

week. Yeah, Abdul Carter had a great game last week four pressures. Brian Burns had three, three quarterback hits, and then everyone else refused to play football. Wow. Where is, oh my gosh, where is Dexter Lawrence this year? Just not the same. 26 pressures. PFFs got him down for no

sacks after 10 last year. That is crazy. that is crazy he was i mean the last three years he's been one of the best players in the entire NFL i mean this is you make a good point my thing to counter that a little bit though lenny would be and you're right on and this is this team can't pressure anybody and then they they stink and look we said the same thing about quinnah williams kenny clark they had a few good plays but you know they didn't take over that game either because kelly jackson and uh will fries were really excellent that game um jackson got beat a few times pretty hard but you know he held on for dear life and a lot of them uh this one if you go into it

without christian derisaw and a very banged up brian o'neal or maybe even without brian o'neal i expect him to play because he just tries to fight through everything but what if he gets in the game and can't go and now you're talking about brandle at right tackle and school at left tackle against burns and carter like those guys they're going to smell blood like they like their numbers um so i yes like they have not really done great, um, but there's always that capability. Uh, let's see. KFT says according to analytics, the quarterback with the most big time throws are Stafford and J.J. McCarthy, uh, are in a statistical tie.

I assume you mean like percentage wise, not total wise. Um, and this is a, this is certainly a product of taking risks downfield. Yeah, let's take a look. I assume you mean percentage wise. um do i got to change that a little bit so i'm not seeing that oh there it is yeah yeah okay so there it is okay yep okay now i see your stat yep uh just had to sort it different it's a it's a product of of pushing the ball down the field which is a good thing for j j mccarthy and i think it's one of the reasons why kevin o'connell drafted j j mccarthy is that he's very

willing to push the ball down the field and to give his wide receivers a shot as he did the other day. Now, the crazy, you want the crazy other side to that. Here's the crazy other side to that stat is that Stafford, who has thrown more than about twice as many passes as J.J. McCarthy has one more turnover worthy play than McCarthy. He's thrown double the number of passes. He has 13 turnover Worthy plays, McCarthy has 12. So I don't think, I don't think any of us have ever questioned if McCarthy can throw down field or if he's willing to take those risks. I don't think any of us have ever questioned his arm.

That was like a day one thing. Go back to my first OTA podcast talking about J.J. McCarthy and you'll hear me talk about like, man, anybody who said this guy doesn't have an arm is out of their skull. And I made, I even, a guy who I go on his show and his show. is being shut down soon, which is unfortunate. There's a national radio change. Anyway, Zach Gelb, I was on his show, a great host, good dude. I've been on a show a number of times.

I'm sure he'll bounce back just fine. But I remember him asking me about what I'd seen in McCarthy. And I was like, you know, I made a joke about how I thought I was getting like Matt Hasselback, no disrespect, great, great quarterback, went to a Super Bowl. but like his arm talent and we got John Elway here and like obviously I'm you know joking sort of being hyperbolic but in terms of the actual velocity of the ball that was a shocking thing to me when he first got here I was like okay they didn't talk about this guy like he threw it that hard so he can throw it down field for sure it's that other side of it and it's the consistency like that's what makes a great quarterback those big time throws are great but when you look at the big time throw percentage here's your leader just to kind of tell you what that stat can do sometimes. So it's Stafford, but then Mariotta is next. And then it's Burrow, who's incredible.

And then it's Darnold, who's great at throwing downfield. And then it's Russell Wilson, and then it's Jackson Dart, and then it's Jordan Love, and then it's Shradur Sanders. And what is this stat? Like, it's guys who go downfield. They're going to get those. So it's about being a complete offensive line. Let's see.

any oh that this is just as a rule for this week and it remains from when the Vikings played Darnold is you guys aren't in a position to make any comments about Sam Darnels because this is the Thursday night game of the year and he's in it that's just the rules I make them it's very fair it's very fair if he doesn't play well against the Rams can't say a thing about it. And the reason is, because he's in the big game and your team isn't. And I'd much rather have the team I'm covering be in a big game and have a letdown than talk about whether the Vikings should draft a freaking running back. Like so, so those, those comments will not get read if Darnold struggles on Thursday. I promise you that. Let's see. Fandle question

of the day, Jackson Dart, J.J. McCarthy, both under 200 yards and they're overunders. Are you guys think an ugly contest or you're thinking shootout curious about your answers there that is the fan duel question of the day uh matt verick other than ward and turner who else do you want to see the last few games maybe tie felton i would like to see some tie felton so this is this is hard uh i recorded a podcast with emily liker of the star tribune and i'll bring that to you on the youtube page soon but we had a similar conversation and both of us were like Hmm. Like, I think she came up, well, just spoiler. I think she came up with Jalen Redmond. Like, okay, but I've already decided Jalen Redmond is good.

This is kind of a one, it's a one topic type of last three games, isn't it? It's really the coach and the quarterback. They are tied together over these last three games. Because if you have this little blip where you win two games and everyone crowns you and then you go 0 and 3 the rest of the Oh, we're going right back to the tone we had when they were four and eight. Trust me. I promise that. I promise that because these signs of life have certainly changed how we're talking about this. And they should.

Like, we change with the information. That's why we don't do the crown or kill thing that Jeremiah Searle talks about on this show because I think that's stupid. I think it's much better to take the information we have and try to figure out what does it mean? Rather than just like picking camps and saying, I'll die on this hill. well, I don't know, that people can do their jobs however they want to. That's not how I do it. So I think that the information we've received over the last two weeks from

J.J. McCarthy's performances has cast a light on his future where you can see it much easier than you could have after six weeks. But if the next three weeks go in a different direction and we look at the totality and we're going, oh man, you know, then it's going to be a different conversation. So when you're asking about other players, like talking about almost anyone else is like, well, you know, I don't know. They're going to put Dwight McLaughern in.

Like, I don't know, whatever, maybe. There's not too many other, I guess I could say like what's the defensive tackle situation look like at the end when we have all the data. What's, how are we feeling about Ryan Kelly's health if he was able to come back and play all the way through the end of the season? It's got a knee thing now. How are you feeling about Jordan Mason and what he's, produced and really actually you know what let me get to the right answer here the right

answer has also become 18 it's just the jefferson i'm not trying to find out if justin jefferson's good but i'm certainly trying to find out if these two guys can connect on a pass that's something for sure uh let's see uh let's see uh let me see kft says uh j j j mccarthy's M.O. at Michigan, who's his third and long accuracy, second highest in college history, his senior year. I don't know that stat, but probably didn't have a lot of third and longs. So I always, I never liked that. I never liked that. People brought that up and I thought, if we're chopping stats down all the way into these little boxes to kind of fit what we want them to, is that really telling us the story? Like, I know that's,

what you have to do when the guy didn't play a lot of football. But I think the same thing here when you're looking at the big time throws. It's like, well, that's good. Okay. It's a, I mean, it's a nice stat. I like stats like that. But we're kind of chopping it down to, hey, look, he threw it downfield. The guys caught it a lot. Like, okay, that's good. Um, is that, but also Marcus Mariotta did too. So are we and Russell Wilson did too. Like, are we really getting the right information here? That's always my thing that I'm hunting for. And I never thought that stat, like, you don't want, you don't want your quarterback to be in third and long very often in the NFL. So, Lenny says McCarthy's total PFF grade, the last two games in the 80s, but when he's

under pressure, it's 59. Let's see what the total pressure has been, I think, a nightmare for him all season long. Let me see what the total is on pressure for this year. Yeah, the grade under pressure is 53.8. The grade win kept clean is 74.9, but also, you know, under pressure 40% of the time. does hang on to the ball a lot we've talked about that i think that tells you that and we saw this the other night that if he can keep himself clean like getting rid of the football and that's what he was talking about being like sharper if he can keep himself clean that would be

a major major thing for him to bode well for the future like him not taking sacks was huge. Him not creating his own pressures is important. Sometimes you're going to have a game where the O line gets beaten. There's not a whole lot you can do about it. But a lot of times the quarterback creates his own pressure and his own sacks. So you have to look at that as well. Like, did he do a good job of getting rid of the football quickly?

And where I think in the last game, he did hold on to it a little longer against Washington. It was really good, though. It was really good in terms of getting out quick. let's see cows anonymous says i think flores loves putting the fear of god into young rookie quarterbacks i trust them to do that right i mean remember the quote from mike tomlin where he said that he was not happy to see carson wince playing i i think that's what it referred to he would much rather play the young quarterback than the veteran and that's probably true about jackson darted james winston like don't knock him out of the game because james

Winston could come in and do something crazy for you. Let's see. KMAC 8502 says less at stake, but 100% speed is helping the growth and confidence for younger players. I think 2026 will be fun given they have decent injury luck and a QB1 to take a leap forward. I mean, it's 2026 to me right now is very hard to see what that's going to look like exactly because we need all the information. first. But there's definitely a scenario where if you feel good about coming out of this,

there's things you could do with the salary cap to add enough to the roster. There's a high draft pick that's coming your way where, you know, they may have played themselves out of a great draft pick so far, but you would much rather have wins from J.J. McCarthy and him looking very good than getting blasted and getting a higher draft pick, blasted by terrible teams like Washington and Dallas's defense. So, you know, that, that scenario is still on the table. And that's what I think the last two weeks have really done. Because if four and eight coming out of the Seattle game, really,

but the Green Bay game, it felt really far away what you're talking about. But now it feels less far away. Adrian says everyone can celebrate except JJ. No, you wait till you're in the end zone. That was the point. You wait until you're in the end zone. Then you celebrate. Because if you celebrate, and it happens.

If you celebrate to, this was West Phillips point, and I think it's an obvious one. If you celebrate too early and you drop that football because you're screwing around, holy cow, you are going to be a joke forever. Can you imagine J.J. McCarthy hits the gritty and the ball slips out of the tip of his fingers and the Cowboys get it or it goes out of the back of the end zone. that's going to be a low light forever. And I think that was kind of the point. So it's not that he can't celebrate. He can celebrate when he gets to the end zone. I also thought that, you know, just the,

there was a little bit of a, hey, you're being really disrespectful here. But, you know, maybe it was just entirely about the football. So, yeah. Max Powers says, if JJ isn't the guy, then you're not getting burrow all off season long. I will, I will counter with this. Brett Fav.

You would have said in 2007, maybe 2008 you would have seen it coming, but you would have said in 2006, 2007, we will never get Brett Fav. That's a joke. Anyone who ever brings it up, that's the stupidest thing you've ever said. Farv will never wear purple.

And then he did. That, to me, is the most unlikely jersey change any quarterback has ever made in NFL history. Is Brett Favre the ultimate villain of the Minnesota Vikings becoming a Minnesota Viking? It is almost unfathomable to this day that that happened. And then how that season played out. So, yeah, I mean, I'm, I mean, normally it never happens. The legend leaves he goes from New England to Tampa Bay or something.

Okay, well, you know, that's fine. not the arch rival. That would have been like Brady going to the Jets. Think about how crazy that is. So Burrow going to the Vikings, to me, it's like a six out of ten on the far of scale. That's definitely not a 10 out of 10. Joe Montana became a Kansas City chief.

You probably wouldn't have seen Russell Wilson becoming a Denver Bronco either, considering his career up to that point in Seattle. I mean, he's like a legend at that point. And then they trade him away. Stuff happens. stuff happens. I mean, Matthew Stafford, who, who here thought Matthew Stafford was finishing his career as a Detroit line? I would have thought that. I thought, well, this guy's here

through thick and thin. They'll never let him go. And then they make a crazy trade. So I don't want to count that out. When the guy's acting like that, I don't. If he came out and said, all right, Purple Insider podcast, please stop bringing up me, Joe Burrow. I'm not going anywhere i'm cincinnati for life skyline skyline if he had done that then i would say all right guys we had our fun me and manny did our one podcast on burrow and then it was over did you watch that thing he looks like a broken man they practice outdoors under a bridge that organization is horrible hey what team what what team always gets graded super high for their organization.

What team has the best facilities, the best owners, the coach who, when he has a veteran quarterback, tends to perform at their peak level? What team has an LSU wide receiver who can catch anything except for J.J. McCarthy passes. Oh, yeah, and another receiver, just like what he's had in Cincinnati. What team, at least as of this moment, has one of the best defensive coordinators in the world. Oh, yeah, all these things, Minnesota Vikings. I'm just saying it's not the craziest thing never talk about. I don't see as likely, but if that comes up, if that, I, I guarantee you, the Vikings have to make that call. I guarantee you the phone rings in Cincinnati. And it's a,

what numbers do we got here? A 651, 612 number, whatever. If Quasi changed his number, I didn't. my cell phone is still the same since I was 15. But you understand. Let's see. Chris, if we do the borough trade, then McCarthy will win three Super Bowls and Burrow will get hurt. I'll take my chances.

I'll take my chances. Let's see. Cow's Anonymous. You reckon that Burrow would fetch more than the Stafford price to first and a second? Yeah, I've kind of had that is J.J. McCarthy and, I mean, two firsts, two seconds, three firsts, it's going to be a lot. Like, you are selling a lot in order to get Joe Burrow.

But, you know, you bring up the Rams. If you can find players, you can say bleep them picks for a quarterback of this caliber. I mean, I've seen the stat come up. And it's interesting about how different people interpret different stats. Because the stat has come up like, hey, Burrow, since the Super Bowl is only 17 and 15. And my thought is, holy cow, with that organization and their ineptitude, you talk about bad drafting, you should see their drafting. I mean, outside of Jamar Chase, I mean, he won more games that he lost with that team. They've never fixed their line.

They've never had, I mean, they had a little bit of a run game with Mixin, but it's never been elite. They've had the two receivers, but not a whole lot else. Their defense fell into complete disrepair after they went to that Super Bowl. They've never fixed it. Bad secondary, can't rush the passer. Their coaching is not excellent. I think that's been made very clear.

They fired their D.C. And he's still one more that he lost. Oh, man. Get him here. Get him here right now. And I'd be willing to, because there's, there's still. two ways to win in the NFL. You draft a guy and then on the rookie contract

or early in his second contract. You do that or you get Joe Burrow. Usually Joe Burrow doesn't come available. So, and he probably won't, but it, the way he's talking, I spent an entire offseason saying, guys, they're not going to trade Stefan Diggs. It doesn't make any sense. He's too good.

And then they did. Micah Parsons, he brought up Michael Parsons. He said, well, you never know. Michael Parsons got traded. That's a thing I would say. Let's see. Nano Joe, I will, I will slightly edit it to be a little, little friendlier. Cincinnati O-line is booty, Cincinnati defense, booty, borough elite.

Go get him. You're right. That's the point. Well, not only that. The whole organization, the ownership, the facilities, like everything. You're talking about just a, just a poorly run franchise. It's been that way forever. Somebody unearthed Carson Palmer from 2022 at the Super Bowl.

They have that 2021 Super Bowl, January or February 2020. Yeah, 2022. So at the Super Bowl. And Carson Palmer is like, yeah, think about Cincinnati's. There's such a horrible organization that I'm really curious. what happens after Joe Burrow needs to get paid because they'll probably screw it up. That's a short version. And he nailed it.

They absolutely have. Mama says if they get Kyler Murray, I'm going to become a Packers fan. Well, you know, give it a chance if they do. But I don't love it. I don't love it. He does have a great arm and he's very exciting to watch. But I don't love that as a better option than just J.J. McCarthy playing and seeing what happens. Let's see.

Rick, I like McCarthy, and I'm hoping that he develops into a good QB. I would toss him overboard for Burrow in a minute. It'd be so much fun to see Burrow and Jefferson. When you look, you want to talk about what the data says about guys. When you look at what Joe Burrow has done in his career by the underlying numbers, and you don't have to look super far. This guy threw 43 touchdowns and nine picks last year, and his PFF grade was a 93.9. Talk about the big time throws.

he had a turnover worthy play rate under 2% which is just insane and still through 43 touchdowns, 5,000 yards. This dude's a cycle. Like, is that worth, is that worth risking? Oh, yeah, it's worth risking because if it works, you will get to the Super Bowl if it works. He's better than any NFC quarterback. I don't even know. Is there, I mean, Stafford, but Stafford's not going to be around forever, especially if he wins the Super Bowl this year. I think he walks off.

So, Stafford. but I mean aside from that aside from stafford who in the nfc is on this guy's level loves playing extremely well golf you know he's good I don't think he's burrow not too many people let's see Lenny says you can change the offense to accommodate a special running back is that really what they want to do it's not it's not that I wouldn't like a special running back it's like what is that really worth bejean Robinson is incredible and they're not in the playoffs. In fact, they're terrible.

So like that, I just, is it, is it Sequin last year running for 3,000 yards? I guess. My math is not changed too much on the value of the running back position, even if we've seen some guys really step up. Cows Anonymous saying the highest corner you can get unless it's Caleb Downs. Caleb Downs is from Ohio State a good option, at least from what I saw. so far. I'm not in draft season yet. We're in bull season. Great bull action last night. Gerard McCoy is a name that's going to come up a lot as a shutdown corner. Yep, that's for sure.

KFT said, I thought that Jemir Gibbs was a stupid draft choice. Yeah, I mean, let's take a look here. Because I get that, I get that he's going to be brought up. But again, the rest of that draft was crazy for them. They had a ton of picks. You can use. one there if you have that many picks. If we're looking at running backs, let's take a look at running back. So Ashton Genty and Omerian Hampton, not so sure

that's gone super well for either one of those teams. Hampton's a good player, but you know, they're in the playoffs because they're quarterback. Judkins, Trayvion Henderson is a second round draft pick where I'm talking about. 24 was Jonathan Brooks was the highest drafted running back.

He was in the second round and he had a torn ACL. Not a lot there in that draft. Bucky Irving 2023 was Bijon and Gibbs the two extremes right they're both great but they're the extremes of the team so you got to believe that you're much more

lions than you are falcons maybe you do Brees Hall for the Jets great example high draft pick and you know if so this is James Cook is in that same draft and he kills it because he's got Josh Allen if you're sure

that your supporting cast for this running back will mean that the guy kills it, then okay. And I think you can make that case. But man, I don't know. Najee Harris was a first round pick. Travis E.T.N. Javante Williams was a high pick. He's just okay.

Clyde Edwards, Allaire. He was supposed to be their final answer for the chiefs. He was supposed to be there, one more. In the second round of 2020, DeAndre Swift, Jonathan Taylor, are two good second rounders. Josh Jacobs, the first round draft pick,

didn't help the Raiders at all. Pretty good for the Packers. I don't know. I'm struggling with that. I have a really tough time getting into the mode of, oh, yeah, like, go get that one final piece running back. Just can't really get there. Mama, should we trade the farm for Fernando Mendoza

so we can have Cousins 2.0? A couple things on that. I think it's unfair. to Fernando Mendoza because he looks like her cousins physically got the same face that and he kind of talks like it but I don't really hear that quite but maybe that's because Kirk was an adult when I covered him and Fernando's a kid but I don't really I mean I see it in the face and in the like strongest glue ever him like losing his mind that's kind of like Kirk and that you like that okay I can see I can see that part of it as players they are more

of a pocket quarterback, Mendoza is a lot bigger than Kirk is. I just thought, I've always felt like any quarterback who doesn't run is just like labeled Kirk. So I don't know about that. But I don't think that any of the teams at the top would make a trade to give you Fernando Mendoza. I don't think that's going to happen. Do not think that's going to happen.

Let's see. KFT says if JJ finishes the year playing well, then Quasi might stay, but I think the Wilfs might fire someone. I covered this also in the newsletter article I did yesterday. Purple insider dot football, feel free to sign up. I just don't think it's necessary. And I never have. Now, if you lose the rest of the games and it looks totally tragic and hopeless, then someone

gets tossed over the ship because, yeah. have to because you just can't have a disappointment like this without somebody getting hacked off. That's how the NFL works. But even when we look at the end of the day here and we go through the roster and we go, all right, let's look at what they built for this year. Let's look at just not the quarterback, not the quarterback performance and what they built around the quarterback. They had an improved backfield that I would say is darn near good when both guys are in there. They've performed better than usual. The receivers, when getting the football, we know can be very, very good.

You go to the defensive side. I think the Jonathan Allen one is the most regrettable. Javon Hargrave has probably played to his price. They've developed Jalen Redmond, who let's all make very clear, does not count his draft pick. Jalen Naylor does. Now you all want him back. Does he count? Maybe not. Maybe he doesn't, for some reason, maybe he doesn't count. but Eric Wilson, great, great signing for them has been absolutely excellent over the last

number of weeks and they might re-sign him. Byron Murphy resigning at this moment does not look great for the amount of money. Although when you look at DJ Reed are a sure various ward, the other guys who were available, they have also, they've probably struggled more than Byron Murphy. This team just has not been in a position to take the ball away. You still have Van Ginkle. You still have Grenard. we've seen progress.

I think we all can agree that Dallas Turner's been much better than he was last year. Is he a superstar yet? No, but he's certainly made progress. Isaiah Rogers signing overall is more good than bad. There's a couple weeks there. It's like, oh, that's not good. But overall, like pretty good. The letting Mackay Blackman not keeping, you know, Nishon right,

letting other guys who are younger go, probably a mistake there. bringing back Harrison Smith, I think has worked out fine. Since he got healthy, he's been good and he's been really important. Signing Josh Mattel is something they really had to do. Just going through the offseason, hey, they drafted one of the best kickers in the league. They stuck with one of the best punters in the league. Where is it as a supporting cast? The Kelly and Fries, when they are in there, very good.

Donovan Jackson's been a good first round pick. Where is it as a roster? I mean, it's certainly in the top 10. is it a little higher than that when completely healthy i don't know so it's hard for me to look at it and be like well like they built this really good roster where some stuff went right and some stuff went wrong so fire someone because the quarterback just wasn't ready and we don't even know yet whether the quarterback is going to be a hit or a miss we still need more information i don't i don't see and maybe this is i maybe this is not what's happening behind the scenes i

I don't know. I still don't see dysfunction with this team. Not like total organizational. I'm sure it's office dysfunction, which happens of people have opinions and, you know, there's power dynamics and such and so. That happens everywhere, stuff that goes on behind the scenes that we don't know about. But with Zim and Rick, it was like glaring with shining lights, this thing has gotten really dysfunctional. And I haven't seen that from them. So to me, that's the point where I would say, get the heck out of here. Johnny says, if KOC knew JJ's mechanics were bad, why pick him over Nix? That's a really interesting question.

Give you some theories on that. My first theory would be that McCarthy has a, I would say, I would say raw arm strength, a stronger arm than Bo Nix does. That would be number one. Bo Nix offense at Oregon, it was not wildly different than it was in Denver, which makes everyone think he's not too good, although he certainly was last week. His offense in Oregon was a lot of quick completions, ball out of his hand fast, it's slants, it's hitches, it's bubble screens, there was a whole thing about, oh, his screen percentage.

Now, when he threw the ball down the field, he was very effective in college. like by the numbers all of his numbers were fantastic in college but a high percentage was those quick passes how many were into tight windows it wasn't that many um and he's had to improve on that sort of thing his mobility is good is it difference making sometimes yeah i think it has been but did you think it was going to be difference making coming out i'm not sure it has been difference making but did we all think that did we all think oh man bo necks it's going to be one of them crazy mobile quarterbacks. I think there was probably a thought of like, is that, is that going to translate? And I also think it was a, a connection between the two

when they got to the whiteboard and when they got to the practice field when O'Connell went on visits. And he is thinking this is a guy that I can connect with and click with on a very high football level and grow together. And part of the issue with Bo Nix, I think for the Vikings, again, it's just a guess, is that he was 24 years old and JJ's 21. And there's a big difference of like those development years. McCarthy is still not yet the age where Bo Nix was already drafted. So you're thinking you can mold him over those couple of years into the quarterback you

want him to be. And they had a good strategy for that, which was last year to not have him as a starter. And then what happened? he got hurt. Bo Nix has not gotten hurt, so he's been able to develop. And what I will believe in now forever after this is if you're a young player and you get hurt, you will not get better, you will not get better well hurt. I don't care how many VR helmets you strap on your head.

I don't care how many meetings you go to. I don't care what it is. You're not going to get better if you are hurt. We've seen it with Anthony Richardson. We saw it with Trey Lance. It's just way too hard to develop when you're injured. So I think that just set back the entire timeline. But look, I, I was, I was kind of in favor of everyone, if you guys recall.

And I was in favor of Bo Nix as Vikings quarterback because I thought, hey, a guy puts up numbers like that. I think he got sat. My favorite thing was he got sacked like six times. It's like, man, if you go to the NFL and you don't take sacks, what a superpower. And that's Bo Nix. And that's why, that's why I liked him. but I didn't sit down with them. I didn't, you know, I can't apply KOC's offense to Bo Nix.

I'm not footbally enough for that. Bo Nix has the second best in the league pressure to sack ratio. So that is, that's a huge thing that nobody, and Eli Manning used to have this too. No one ever gives credit to Bo Nix for is that he never takes sacks. That's a, that's a huge thing. And that's been a McCarthy issue. KFT could see him cutting T.J. Hawkinson.

The thing about Hawkinson is that cutting him and not cutting him cost about the same. So you can restructure and it creates the same amount as cutting him. So you'd rather just have him be on the team rather than not. That's how I view it. Johnny, do I think that Felting gets more wide receiver work these last three games? Probably not. I mean, I think I'd like to see it just as much as you would. But if the three receivers are healthy, and this is the find out about J.J. McCarthy situation, then, yeah, it's not tryout time.

Like, you're playing the Lions and the Packers. And what's on the line is finding out about your quarterback and how the owners feel about you as a leadership group and everything else. I don't think you're playing tryouts. Mama is Fernando Mendoza the real deal? if I wish I had the power to know, I've only watched maybe two games from him. I've really liked what I've seen. Seems like a very highly intelligent dude with some toughness and some willingness to take risks, some accurate. I don't see an athlete of the level that I would expect for a top guy.

So that's why Kirk gets brought up, but he's taller than Kirk. So maybe like a golf or a Daniel Jones. But even Daniel Jones is a way better athlete as far as his ability to run. So I don't know. I mean, I think he's a quarterback you could definitely win with on the rookie deal. I don't know if he's a quarterback you can win with past the rookie deal. Those are two different kind of questions. And, you know, I know you guys are there.

I'm behind where you guys are in the comment section. So, you know, we're getting to some of the Josh Allen stuff. And I, I, Josh Allen's an all time freak. But there is proof beyond Josh Allen. Jalen Hertz would be this as well. where guys have done much better with their mechanics. There is, I think, pretty clear proof that you can improve mechanics if you're that young. So there is definitely examples of that.

And that's what we have to be able to find out is really, in my mind, that's what we have to be able to find out, is can he improve those mechanics over an offseason? But you don't get three off seasons. You probably just get one. David says this is pathetic mental paralysis by misplaced analysis. Oh, David, you got out your thesaurus tonight. Fran Tarkington in his first seven games or so wouldn't have met the expectations set for McCarthy. This is insane.

Well, one thing about that that we might want to consider, David, is that that was 1961. I don't know if I have to say anything more than that, but just, Just to explain, the Minnesota Vikings were a expansion team. So, Fran Tarkington, compared to a team that spent 300 million in free agency and has the greatest receiver on Earth with also another great wide receiver and a coach that won 14 games last year, I don't think is the same as a 1960s expansion team. I'm just going to throw it out there. Now, if your main point is that it's hard to judge someone after, if we're counting correctly, eight games, then I think that's fair. But if we're comparing him to Fran, that I don't think is a really great idea to give us a true picture of what we're talking about here. Quarterbacks in the NFL today have repeatedly shown themselves to be good or bad pretty quickly.

and people love the two examples that that have clicked and that's Baker and Darnold and to some degree Gino Smith, but let's take a look at old recent history here, as we tend to do. And the guys who haven't worked out, like, let's go back so we got enough information on them. Did we need five years or whatever? Did we need five years on Kenny Pickett? No, probably not. did we need five years on

Zach Wilson or Trey Lance or Justin Fields Mac Jones played pretty well as a backup quarterback this year but I think we know what he is Did we need five years to know that Joe Burrow was good or Justin Herbert was good

Tua took a little bit longer and now has fallen off Jalen Hertz was in the Super Bowl by what, his third year? Daniel Jones probably showed his peak a couple years in I mean a lot of these guys

guys. Mitch Trubisky by year two, year three. It was pretty clear. Pretty clear by year two that Mahomes or Deshaun Watson were really good. Pretty clear by year two that Jared Goff or, well, Carson Wentz had that injury. That's tough. But by year two, I mean, he came alive. That injury, I think it was never the same. But Jared Goff was good by year two. I mean, a lot of, when we do it that way, like, are you good by year two? Knowing someone's good, Caleb Williams major progress, Drake May major progress, Bo Nix major progress. Even Bryce Young has shown to be spectacularly mid, but I don't think that he's going in a different direction.

Stroud has had his bumps, but he's going to be in the playoffs again. So we know that there's a baseline there. Trevor Lawrence continues to be kind of who he was, his first two years. His second year, I think he made the playoffs, won a playoff game, but it's still flawed. A lot of these guys, I mean, Jordan Love sat for three years, so there's that. but he's a different one. But I mean, Herbert was good right away. I don't know.

I mean, to me, like you don't have forever. And a lot of these guys have kind of shown who they are pretty quickly because they're not playing on expansion teams from the 60s. Nick says JJ gets over 200 yards for the fan duel question of the day. I think that's 100% going to happen. They're going to throw a lot. as far as the celebration, remember Leon Latt, hey, you're exactly right.

You're exactly right. The coaches are 100% right on this. And I thought it was, I thought it was a little odd that McCarthy was like, I'm doing it anyway. I'm like, oh, okay, I don't know, man. I don't think you should do that. I think they're coaching you that way for a reason.

Because if you fumble that ball, oh my gosh. What if they want, oh, this, now you're getting deep of trading Brian Flores. You're trading Brian Flores for Joe Burrow. Look, when you guys ask me, what would I trade for Joe Burrow? The answer is going to be almost anything. That's not Justin Jefferson because I kind of need that to work. But almost anything else.

Adrian says, how hot is KOC's seat going to be if he doesn't win a playoff game next year, which is why I think they will be aggressive in pursuing Burrow. Oh, I mean, they'll be aggressive in pursuing Burrow because they're not complete fools. uh every everyone if it caught if there's a moment where it comes alive that that's possible then the number of phone calls it will be very very high and there will be very very aggressive offers uh but you know i i tend to agree with what you're saying about the playoff game i mean i remember giving impassioned rants early this year about how you got to win like it's time to win it's time to stop screwing around and we're not talking to

about rebuilding or competitive rebuilding or anything like that. The expectations are winning. And them not doing it this year is a massive failure. And that should not be forgotten. It's great if your quarterback's going the right direction. It's wonderful. That's what you needed this year. But as they are eliminated from the playoffs,

there's no world where I'm petting anybody on the head. Or there's no world where anybody you guys bring up and you say, hey, is this person, could they be in trouble? Could they be in trouble where I'd say, oh, no, absolutely not. It's all great. personally, I would not fire anyone now when they got here for a multi-year window and it's not a dysfunctional mess. So I don't think that would be a good idea.

But, hey, you know, when you're talking about a team that could potentially, could potentially finish with six wins, I mean, I don't know. Like, that is so far below what the expectation was that I can't tell you what the ownership is going to do. And I'm not going to fight them with whatever they decide to do if they don't win another game this year. they will but if they don't i think they'll win this week but if they don't i mean holy cow right so things change very much in in a couple of weeks as we've seen from these last two wins uh but the point

being to what you said uh i don't know hot seat not hot seat there's a million different outcomes do you make the playoffs and lose again and they're like i don't know if if you win 12 games next year with j j mcc and losing the playoffs are we firing kOC no that would be ridiculous because you've got your quarterback and you're, like, good to go. But if it's, if it's another year like this, then, yeah. I mean, that, that just becomes the reality of what happens in the NFL when you miss the playoffs for this long. It is very unique, though, because I see those stats of like, whoa, this guy kept his job after

the, well, I don't know if they had 13 and 14 win seasons. That's pretty unique. And they had, they had a plan and a direction this entire time. is this Kalin I think do you think that the strides JJ has made albeit against bad defenses

that he could be a top 12ish quarterback if he hits his upside oh yeah no I certainly think that yeah absolutely because that's just that's an evaluation of what are the skills what are the talents that he has mobility

arm strength certainly Moxie is not afraid of the big stage. He won on the road in Chicago. He won on the road in Detroit. He won on the road in Dallas. And those were all performances that at least had a lot of moments and had some very clutch moments at the end of the game in Detroit, at the end of the game in Chicago,

at the end of the game in Dallas. Those are not easy games to win in those moments. So he's not afraid of that. He does not shrink underneath the pressure of national television or attention. He certainly has not melted into the ocean. after he's been criticized a lot, all these things are really good. We've seen the arm strength. We've seen how he can make some spectacular throws and plays on the run and stuff like that.

That can get you into that range if you reach your ceiling. And yes, if you're in the top 12 with a rookie contract, you can win, which is why I'm like, hey, find out if you can get there. But right now, the total picture of J.J. McCarthy is not someone who's a top. 12 quarterback. I mean, PFF grade, he's 33rd and quarterback rating is 42nd. So there's a long way to go for that in order to get to that point. But is it there? Have we seen enough to say it's there? Oh, yeah. And if it does click, it looks like it could be really good at times and probably inconsistent and frustrating at times. But there are other

quarterbacks like that. Let's see. Who do I think has a higher ceiling? Cam Ward or J.J. I'm not a real, I'm not a real Cam Ward buyer. I'm not, I think Cam Ward was talked about as a guy because he's got a laser. I think he was talked about as a guy that way. I'm just not, I'm just not a, I'm not a, it's hard to, it's hard to believe in someone who's played that level of poor this year. And then there's questions about the whole, you know, leadership. I was getting along with his teammates, losing left and I don't know. It's so miserable there. that's really hard. I mean, it's so, it's so, uh, apples to, uh, oranges or whatever. But, you know, look, I mean, I think that it's probably the same range. And with that,

this, that's how, uh, Burrow looked early. So, uh, yeah, I've seen some people who are really big on Cam Ward. I just, I haven't seen a ton. I will say that. I haven't seen a ton. You're talking about the Titans. I have not sat down and like tried to evaluate Cam Ward. But I've always since he came into the league thought, you know, he's just a little, he's a little wild for me. A little bit of, I'm going to just stand in the pocket and like gun sling around and throw into tight windows all the time and take a lot of risks. I just, I don't know. I haven't quite seen it, but there's other people watched it much closer.

So I don't know about the answer to that. I really don't. I guess I would have to watch more Cam Ward. I didn't watch him a lot coming out either. I saw a few college games. but didn't watch a lot coming out because he was going to the Titans. And I had offensive guards to watch. So I don't know.

I just have not ever thought that he looked like a complete quarterback that we've seen turned into first round picks. You know, with precision accuracy, it's been much more like scattershot. A lot of stuff where you get great, great highlights, and then you get to the end of the game and he average 4.9 yards an attempt or something. So I don't know.

but you've seen guys turn the corner many times with that and their coaching situation was very bad and their wide receivers are very bad so that's why I don't know because with McCarthy a major part of the evaluation has been like everything's here for you now just do it with Cam Ward it's so bad how does anybody know but he wasn't somebody that stuck out to me initially when he was coming out of college where I went, whoa, this guy is clearly number one. So I've always had a little bit of trepidation with him. Anyway, well, great conversation, everybody. Really appreciate it. If you didn't get to the fan dual question of the day, and you want to leave it in the comments section, Jackson, Dart and J.J. McCarthy, both have

over unders under 200 yards in this game. How do you see it playing out? It's going to be low scoring or a shootout now that Mattelis and Grenard are out. Great discussion again, as as I mentioned, Mani Hill will be here tomorrow. Pick the schedule, but also we'll have a good conversation. I've also going to have an episode with Emily Liker coming out in which we talk a little bit about Snoop Dog and then a lot of other football.

And also Bobby Peters is going to stop by to give us an evaluation on KOC's offense and kind of where it stands now. And if there have been major changes or not, Bobby is the best of breaking that down. And then on Friday, we got a full list. got uh Friday we got Andrew Kramer as always and then I'm also scheduled to connect with Kalyn Kaler vspn as well so there is a ton still to come on the channel. Thanks everybody for watching slash listening and we will catch you very soon football.