Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - JJ McCarthy fully practices, ankle feels 'amazing' (Part 1)

Episode Date: October 30, 2025

Matthew Coller talks about JJ McCarthy's comments about returning and what Carson Wentz and Kevin O'Connell had to say about Wentz's situation. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar here, and a crazy thing happened today at TCO Performance Center for the Minnesota Vikings. Absolutely wild. We haven't seen this in a really, really long time. The Vikings got positive news on their injury report. I know, I know. It's something that we're not used to, and we're going to have to, change the entire tenor of the show to analyze good news on the injury report.

First of all, Andrew Van Ginkle practiced in full. And what a difference a Van Ginkle can make to this defense. But also, to go along with that, J.J. McCarthy practiced in full for the first time since September 14th, maybe, the first time since he got hurt, whatever the date of that was that he got injured against the Atlanta Falcons. This was the first time that on an injury report, he was listed as a full participant. So we had a chance to speak with J.J. McCarthy today about just the last five, six weeks for him, what he's been through, what he's tried to take away, and how the ankle feels right now.

And if you're seeing the headline, then you realize what he said. He said that the ankle feels, quote, amazing. and he described it. I'll play you the clip in a bit. So he described it as not being ready for last Thursday, but said that time has helped him get to the point where he is ready to go. And we can move past all the soft benching discussion and all that other stuff about whether the Vikings actually wanted Carson Wednesday to start.

And yada, yada, yada. Well, I promise you, everybody in the organization wants to see J.J. McCart. and J.J. McCarthy wants to be on the football field. And you could tell from him today, just coming off of a practice, he had, I think Alec Lewis described it as just like good spirit or an energy to him that the last couple times we've talked to him, it's been, hey, how are you feeling? Are you okay? How you deal with all this?

And you could just, I think, see the excitement in his face to get back on the field and start playing again. and I can imagine that a lot of your faces look like that as well. I forgot to mention the show presented by Fanduil, as always. And let me get you the Fandul question of the day. Then we can get into what J.J. McCarthy had to say, I wrote an article about trying to analyze what it should look like with J.J. McCarthy back on the field where they need to improve in order to have success with McCarthy.

And then Carson Wentz talked, Kevin O'Connell talked more about the, Carson Wentz Thursday night injury situation so we could dive into that as well and old purple insider got aggregated through the roof which we'll discuss also but here's your fan dual question of the day. J.J. McCarthy's over under for this game is 20012.5 yards. What do you need to see from J.J. McCarthy to feel like he had a good game. I want you to give me one specific thing. So I gave you the over under. That's a stat line. Doesn't have to be a stat. give me one specific thing from J.J. McCarthy for you to walk away and say, you know what, because I saw this, I think J.J. McCarthy had a good game. Or you think that this is going

to trend in the right direction because you saw X, Y, and Z. So that is your fan duel question of the day. But McCarthy talked to us for a couple of minutes out there after practice. And Kevin Seaford asked him just what this last five or six weeks has been like. And, uh, here's what he had to say. I think during this whole six-week process. How do you kind of think about your first year and a half in the NFL, like what it's been like for? A roller coaster.

Definitely not something I've been used to playing football in my career. And, you know, it's something that, you know, you don't know now, but you'll know later. You know, God always has a plan for every single one of us. And I have full faith in that. And, you know, I'm just continuing to trust my process because I'm confident in the things that I'm doing on the day-to-day. basis are the right thing. So obviously you adapt and you evolve that process, but you can't

lose sight of, you know, what got you here and what's going to get you to where you want to go. So, yeah, it's been a roller coaster, that's for sure. Do you think at all about this week as if you're starting over in some senses? I think there's a, you know, a reset button, essentially, just being, you know, six weeks down. And, you know, I feel like there's a lot that I learned on just, you know, playing the game of football in the next level. You know, this is my second, year i'm still learning so much and you know all that time is not time that's wasted so yeah it's a little bit of a reset but you know just coming from a different perspective yeah i really like the way that he talked about that reset button of course he's learned a lot along the way from last

year watching sam darnold and the recovery and going through all that and all that he learned about the offensive system and how the NFL works and then this year he gets into some games he starts to see what it really looks like when you're out there. And I don't mean to make fun of the virtual reality. Like, I'm sure that it has merit and I'm sure it's been useful, but it's not the same as having James Pierce or something running after you and trying to slam into your face. It's just not something that you can really in any way try to simulate actually being on

the field and what that pressure is like and what that speed is like and what those hits actually feel like. those are things that he got to see in the first two games. But it does really feel like the start of anew for J.J. McCarthy. And almost in a way, he went one in one in his first two games. I thought he did a lot of good things. And you can go back and watch the JTO Sullivan breakdown of the game against Chicago that really shows that he did some good things that were not rewarded.

There were drops. There were some miscues from wide receivers. There were some blocking issues at times. and even the pick six that he threw, the breakdowns of that had kind of suggested that maybe the route could have been a little better or whatever it might have been. Or maybe the corner just made an amazing play and jumped it.

And if he had missed it, it would have gone for, who knows how much, you know, all those things, right? Chicago game, I think we all agreed, was a very decent game from McCarthy and a great quarter that he played in the fourth quarter. He made some all-star type of plays in that. game. The second game was a disaster. We've talked about that for all the reasons why it was a disaster. O'Connell today went into why he thought, you know, going into that game that he had played

well enough against Chicago and even if he didn't have adequate amounts of practice that he felt like, hey, man, this kid just won, you know, that game against Chicago. Just because he's missed some practice, we can't have him sit on the bench after that. So they put him in. But maybe learned a lot from that experience of having things go wrong against Atlanta. But those almost feel like because there's such a separation, almost like a preseason. I mean, it counted and it's in the official NFL record books. It's not like preseason. But he didn't have actual preseason action outside of last year against the Raiders.

And then was it seven passes, nine passes, whatever it might have been this year. And the NFL has just given up so much to the point. And I think it's a shame that this is true, but has given up on preseason to the point where starters never play and even the backups play only a little bit. And then it's on to third teamers, fourth teamers. And it doesn't even begin to simulate football back in my day. It used to. They used to play starters.

They used to play backups into the third quarter. And then finally those third and fourth stringers would get in. It's probably a little better for opportunity and development for third and fourth stringers to play most of the game, but it's not better for developing quarterbacks because the quarterbacks never get to see the real speed. Joint practices are great. It's still not the same as being actually out there. So it's almost like a preseason for J.J. McCarthy. And it feels like his debut against the Detroit Lions. And as down as everyone deserves to be on this three and four team that we thought should probably be about five and two at this point. But, you know, obviously football

had other plans with injuries and with disappointing performances and whatever's gone wrong schematically and the combination of a bunch of different things to this point. So you can't wash that away because they are down in the standings. Their odds of making the playoffs are very low at this point. I think I looked into this on Fandul and they were maybe plus $750 on Fanduil to make the playoffs, which is a long shot. It's about the same as the Carolina Panthers. They're in need of a miracle second half of the season in order to make the playoffs. That is not where anybody had this team and it doesn't excuse any of the things that have

happened to say that it feels like a new season. It really does, though. With McCarthy coming back, it feels like a reset. It feels like a new season for the Minnesota Vikings as they head to Detroit with the quarterback that they had planned to have all along. And I thought about this in a lot of different ways over the last five or six weeks. But one of the things I thought about was when you watch Cincinnati play and you see their defense and how awful their defense has been, you think had he gotten hurt against Cincinnati

and maybe played really well, how much different would we be talking about this entire thing? Had he gotten hurt against Chicago, how much different would we be talking or would people feel in general about this. And as I've said, those two games to me are preseason. I don't look at them anymore. Don't think about them anymore because they mean nothing in the bigger picture of a 22-year-old quarterback who has not played much football. So O'Connell and McCarthy, they went over these two games, went through everything with a

fine-tooth comb that they could take away positive and negative, look to improve. And off we go into the future with J.J. McCarthy. I did ask him what he was able to learn from Carson Wentz. And I think he also in this clip commented on why he wasn't able to play on Thursday. What did you see just from the way that Carson played just on a positive aspect that you can take away? I would say the biggest thing about Carson's game that I really admired was his ability to put balls in voids. You know, have that touch where he's throwing 60% balls and letting Justin go into that void and, you know, catch it there. So just being able to tempo my arm down on certain routes and certain inbreakers and stuff like that is something I picked up from them, big time.

You got worked on last Tuesday. Like, how close did you feel then to being able to go? I felt close. You know, at the end of the day, it was still a couple things where I felt like my foot was in concrete. And you just don't want to be in that position, especially, you know, going into a Thursday game or Saturday or Sunday game. It really doesn't matter what game and when it is. Just not being able to be able to be. to move the way I want to and protect myself was the biggest concern. So there you go. Much better for him. And I agreed with them not trying

to push him out there on Thursday if he was not able to practice in full. He needed to be able to practice in full in order for him to start and have the best chance to succeed. So again, able to do that. Now back to full health. He can be the full version of J.J. McCarthy.

And we all can begin the process of watching and understanding what J.J. McCarthy is and what he's going to be, but I also do want to say that if we're putting it all on this game against Detroit, that might be on the excessive side. I would say it's definitely on the excessive side if we are trying to look at this one game and make all of our determinations about JJ McCarthy. I think it's going to be over a 10 game sample where we have to look at the entirety of that. I won't focus too much on those first two games, but in terms of

of if he could play 10 games in a row to the end of the season, then we should have some sense of which bucket it falls into. Is it the bucket of franchise quarterback? I mean, it would have to be really, really good in order for that to be the case, but that's on the table. So could it be that? Could it be you feel good about him as your starter? And you're not looking for outside quarterbacks to come compete with him going into

next year because he's shown you enough. So think about Drake May last year was not great. And Michael Pennix last year was not great. But they both showed their teams, hey, yes, this is what you should go forward with. And you don't have to bring in competition. And you're not going to have a competition with Kirk Cousins and Pennix in the preseason and training camp. Like, that's your guy for next year. It doesn't mean for sure he's locked in as the next Mahomes.

It just means that's your dude. And then there's a next level down where there's some good and some bad and you still feel like you don't know. and you are looking for another quarterback to come in and compete with him and see where it goes from there. That's kind of where San Francisco got with Trey Lance and Brock Purdy of like, all right, we're still not really sure and we're going to bring in a competition and Sam Darnold and just see how it goes. Well, that could be the case or it could go so poorly that you're talking about, all right, well, I don't know if you're completely throwing up the white flag, but you might have to.

That's the range of outcomes over these 10 games. And which does that fall into? We could start figuring that out. But we can't get that entire answer against the Detroit Lions, which does tie into that, you know, that fan dual question of the day, which is just what do you need to see for McCarthy to feel like it's a good game? And for me, I mean,

what he mentioned about learning from Carson Wentz of being able to throw to areas and lead his receivers into those areas, I'd like to see just in and out of the huddle on time, which was not really a thing in the first two games, and it's going to be tough in Ford Field. But in and out of the huddle, command of the offense, throwing fairly accurately. I expect some misses, that's okay.

It doesn't have to be perfectly accurate, but fairly accurate, move the offense, keep the offense on the field, make a couple of plays. And even if the final stat line, so I mentioned the over under is 212 and a half, even if the final stat line is 200 yards, 16 for 25, a touchdown, no picks, like no turnovers, no catastrophic errors, things like that. I expect some mistakes to happen from McCarthy,

but that's what you're looking for for progress for him getting back in there because it has been a while since he has played. But also, it's not like he's been doing nothing. Like he's been working and he's been trying to improve. So that's my answer is on time, in and out of the hub, and move the offense. You don't have to be everything. You don't have to be perfect.

Move the offense. And we'll start to feel like, okay, this is what it was supposed to look like. And then we're going to have to be patient from there. Folks, are you overwhelmed by the number of different options for hair loss? Are you exhausted by looking around the internet for answers and watching late night television commercials, seeing if any of the options will work for you? Well, getting your hair back doesn't have to be that complicated.

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said to see some of the criticisms. And he said that, you know, he's not an idiot. And he knew what was going on when he was dealing with that amount of pain during the game and kept wanting to go out there and play. as you would expect from someone as tough as Carson Wentz and someone who is a competitor and who is getting a chance to start and play when he hasn't gotten a chance to play very much

over the last couple of years. So I would expect that. He also said that there was good communication between the medical team, Kevin O'Connell, and that he got second opinions on the labrum and was told pretty much the same thing that, hey, like this is an injury you can play with if you can manage the pain

and then you can get surgery at a later date, which became earlier this week. So that's what Wentz had to say to us that he felt like there was good communication and there was his decision to go back out there and play. I'll read you the main quote from Kevin O'Connell about this. He talked a lot, answered a lot of questions, but I'll just read it to you. The main thing that I took away with O'Connell. He said the consultation has to begin and start with the player and medical staff.

And as the coach, you have to allow that to happen before you're a part of the conversations at all. So O'Connell's saying that before you can even ask the player if he's good to go, the player has to communicate with the medical staff, okay? He said, then the conversations are purely what's in the best interest of the player. And at that point, Carson thought it was in his best interest of getting to play football and quarterback for the Vikings and felt equipped and capable to do that. Okay, so that all makes sense that the quarterback wanted to play. Kevin O'Connell was saying to the medical staff, this is all stuff. we know, saying to the medical staff, hey, is he going to further injure himself?

They're saying, no, it's just a pain management thing. Okay. Now, later in this press conference, O'Connell did acknowledge that on TV, there's a million eyes everywhere with TV cameras. And it is maybe not possible for a head coach to have eyes in the back of his head as someone is on the sideline. Now, I think that there were plenty of opportunities to see the type of pain that Wentz was in.

I think what he's referring to is I didn't see that thing that you guys all saw and are reacting to. I think that's what he was trying to say. So back to his quote, he said, in regards to the second half, now this is where my specific criticism came in the other day. He said it's one of those things where you have, where after every drive, you can visually see that he took some hits and was in some pain and making sure before we put him back on the field that that dynamic hadn't changed.

It was just the circumstances of him managing it. And then when the time came to take him out of the game, it was a football decision. Wanted to make sure we did right by him there late in the game when it was out of reach. But the way we operate where we believe we're out of reach might be different than how folks watching the game believe it to be. Now, this is where I do, don't necessarily agree. And I'm not going to spend much more time on this. We're going to get to your answers. But we did a little research in the old media room today, Dave Campbell,

who's been on the show, the Associated Press. We found one NFL game in history, one ever. 1987, Neil Lomax, the Phoenix Cardinals, coming back from down 24 in the fourth quarter to beat the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. One example ever of a team down 24 that actually won the football game. I don't know if that was in the cards at 34 to 10

when they were still calling pass plays for Carson Wentz. That was, that specifically was, hey, that's where I feel like you let it go too far. So he's saying that we still believed and I understand that. Now, as far as I mentioned Purple Insider being aggregated, you know, I am not a big fan of when this happens. So the other night, I read a couple of messages, one from a person with knowledge of the situation, another from outside the building that is in the league and someone that I trust their

opinions. And those statements that I read to you turned into. some AI headlines that were absolutely crazy, that were not what was actually said. So that was a little bit frustrating. If you see them, I guess you can roll your eyes along with me, but I did want to mention that. I usually don't like to say, here's what I'm being told, because it turns into that. And so in the future, I'm just going to say what I think and probably not ever mention,

here's what someone specifically texted me or whatever, because that just ends up turning into goop on the internet. I said before I am very uncomfortable talking about the injury stuff. I hate it. I want to talk X's and O's. I want to talk data. I want to talk matchups and numbers and

expectations and front office and team building. I don't like coming in and saying, hey, we got a second guess medical decisions and things like that. That's just not my area. And I am not comfortable with that and don't enjoy it. But I did feel

like the messages that I got were credible and strong, and it painted a picture of how some people are viewing this situation this year. So I didn't say that O'Connell has lost the locker room. That's not what I said. I did see that in AI headlines, but that's not what I said. I said that someone who I really trust in the league messaged me and was very concerned about injuries and the connection with the head coach. That was the point. And if you listen to the whole segment. Obviously, you heard the point. But why would any machine who writes whatever those pass for articles listen to the whole segment? Anyway, so I just wanted to make that clear. And, you know, look, I also had pointed out in that same segment, the NFLPA rankings and how

the medical staff has been praised by Justin Jefferson, Aaron Jones, Brian O'Neill, repeatedly. So I want to make that clear. But, you know, you heard Jeremiah Searle talk about it, if you want to here on the record discussion with a former player. The other day, Jeremiah talked about this, talked about the connection relationship with some players and Mike Zimmer in the past and how injuries can cause a lot of tension in the way that they're handled. That was the point of the message the person sent me. So anyway, that's a, they just wanted to make sure that we clear that up.

You know, I've wondered about some things this year and certainly messages like that make me wonder about them, but I'm not in the medical room. you've heard me say it a million times. So that's not something I'm going to have anything more to say unless something else comes up. So we'll just leave it at that. The Carson Wentz issue is, I think, something that everybody empathized with Wentz and the amount of pain that he was in. O'Connell's explained his view.

Wentz has explained his view. I've explained mine. And we're on to Detroit. So that's where that is all at. And, okay, so I want to bring up and then I'll get to your comments and your answers to the Fan Duel question of the day. I want to bring up my article from yesterday over at purple insider dot football. I have mentioned a handful of times.

If you like the show, you want to support the show and read articles about the Vikings every day, purple insider dot football, a good way to do it. So here's what I wrote for last night. I used a lot of data from true media and created some cute little charts about how the Vikings can get the most out of J.J. McCarthy. and how they can help him the most strategically and so forth. So that's kind of the article. And I used a bunch of numbers.

I'm just going to read you some from the article because I think it's interesting. The way that they've been attacked, the way that they've been covered so far by opponents, the way they've been blitzed and what they might be able to do and some league trends here. So the blitz has been a major problem so far for the Vikings. In his first two games, J.J. McCarthy had a very rough time. against the blitz. Facing at least five rushers on 17 dropbacks, he completed just six passes through two interceptions and was sacked three times. So that right there alone, small sample size, but that's a lot of calamity and not much success when blitzed. So what you can absolutely

expect is that he is going to get blitzed. And when Carson Wentz was blitzed, 48% completion percentage, 66 quarterback rating, and using True Media's passer efficiency rating, the Vikings have been the second worst team in the league. Now, they haven't been blitzed a ton overall because they've been losing by a lot, but the second worst performance in terms of True Media's passer efficiency rating against the Blitz, that is something that absolutely has to change. But here's what I discovered is that

KOC's offense has the answers. Last year, Sam Darnold averaged 9.5 yards per attempt against the Blitz, 12 touchdowns, zero interceptions, and a 123.3 quarterback rating. I mean, that was excellent for Sam Darnold against the Blitz. So the receivers are there. Darnold did have a consistent offensive line group that has not been the case for the Vikings so far this year. So assuming that Christian Darrisaw and Brian O'Neill will be ready to go against

Detroit, they should be able to better handle the extra rusher. I am a little concerned about not having Josh Oliver for this game for that. We'll see about C.J. Ham. McCarthy, I assume it's going to be Blake Brandel, but also could be Michael Juergens. That is not the same as having Ryan Kelly. That could impact how things go against the Blitz. And I'll show you in a minute that Detroit does like to dial it up sometimes. And they need to be better blocking in the backfield.

Jordan Mason right now is a 37.4 pff grade on 40 pass blocking snaps. That's just not enough. So C.J. Ham, he has been really good in that area could use him back. Here's another thing, too. The Vikings have not performed very well against man coverage, and they've faced a lot of it so far this year. As you could see from this chart, or if you're listening, I'll just explain what it looks like.

The Vikings have faced some of the most man coverage in the NFL, which is unusual for them. I mean, normally teams are wanting to play zones against them, but it might also be score effects there. And in terms of EPA per dropback overall, have not performed anywhere near some of the better teams in the NFL at the quarterback position. So they've been facing a lot of man. And the Detroit Lions, in terms of how much man coverage they play, it is a lot. It is actually only, according to true media, under 60% of the time.

So they're playing zones. So that means, you know, 40% that they're playing or more than 40% man. That is unusual in the NFL. one of the highest man rates in the league. You see Pittsburgh, Denver, New York Giants are the only teams around them. And in terms of blitzes, they are above average. So you can expect a lot of blitzes going up against J.J. McCarthy. But when you hear man coverage, that means opportunity.

And something to point out is that Jordan Addison, who had the best training camp, I think of anybody on the Vikings, maybe on the entire team, was not playing in those first two games, which is, again, why we can kind of toss them out now that there's just been so much space in between what we saw then and now. But having Addison against the team that plays man coverage could be pretty good for J.J. McCarthy performing better than he did in the first two games. Another thing I wanted to point out from the article at purple insider dot football is the Vikings need to get yacking. Yards after catch, my friends, if you look at the yards after catch per completion around the, the NFL. Top teams, Green Bay Packers, Detroit Lions, Buffalo Bills, Kansas City Chiefs, Indianapolis Colts are above average, the Broncos are above average, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

are above average. And then, of course, even Pittsburgh as well, although many of those yards might have been against the Vikings with D.K. McCaff, the Vikings right now are slightly above average for yards after catch per completion. But I think you could see a pretty clear trend here. Now, okay, the Rams are not one of the top teams, Matthew Staffords, their quarterback, the Eagles, they throw down field, the Patriots, they throw downfield. So teams that are downfield passing Seattle are not getting as many yards after catch per completion. But a lot of the top passing games you can see are in the top right corner. And this little line here is showing, you know, more teams that are completing passes and getting yards after catch are having

better expected points added per dropback. So it is absolutely vital to get T.J. Hawkinson going, get Justin Jefferson going, get Jordan Addison going in terms of yards after catch. I think it shows pretty clearly on this chart, especially where the Packers are. Yeah, Jordan Love is playing great. There's no doubt about it. Jared Goss playing great. Patrick Mahomes.

But they are also getting a lot of yards after catch and not having to push the ball down the field all the time. you would like to see that for an inexperienced quarterback. And that's another thing that I would like to see for sure from Kevin O'Connell, from the Minnesota Vikings, is that they continue to lean into some of those plays that really worked against Philadelphia and the Cleveland Browns when it came to the yards after catch. So there's a little bit of the type of stuff.

You get over a purple insider dot football. Make sure you go check out the entire article and sign up if you like to. let's get back to your questions, comments, thoughts, and feelings, and we'll go from there. So anything on the table, but the Fanduil question of the day specifically is J.J. McCarthy's over under is 212.5 yards against the Lions. What do you need to see to feel like McCarthy had a good game? Just give me one specific thing. You don't have to give a stat line. You can if you want, but one specific thing to feel like, you know what?

That was a good game for J.J. McCarthy. Give me that one thing that you would like to stick out for him. First question comes. This I didn't expect from I shot you 99. What happened to Ty Chandler? Well, he got hurt in training camp preseason and went on IR. So it must have been a serious injury. They could use them for returning purposes.

But I think they feel good about Miles Price. Plus, they commit a penalty on every return anyway. So maybe it doesn't matter. I think if he was coming back, they might stick with Zay Scott. Not sure, but that was a little out of left field. But yeah, he hasn't, he's been back. Let's see. RPA fix.

Anyway, sorry about the name there. Sounds like 10 years ago with the way that the season has gone talking about those first two weeks. Yeah, no, I totally agree. And that's why when we're talking about this reset and just not using those first two games as a major evaluation tool to look at J.J. McCarthy overall, that's exactly how I feel. It really seems like it was so long ago that he played in those two games. And it was some good and it was some bad.

And what's the determination we can make on J.J. McCarthy after those two games, none? I mean, I really think the answer is none to take away. Because, you know, you can look at other quarterbacks in the past and how they've played. Well, this guy in his first couple games did this. or this guy in this first couple games did this. And that's okay, that's, that's fair to look at. But this is an entirely different situation.

I mean, this is somebody who missed an entire season, who was 22 years old, who didn't have much of a preseason in terms of getting out there and actually playing. So not only that, but was missing his left tackle, missing his second wide receiver. Like it was and playing on a Monday night and then a Sunday night. Like it was just, there was a lot there that we can see. some things we could see armed talent we could see athleticism and we could see how he managed the game in chicago which i think is after talking to aaron jones today like that's what a lot of players are going to be leaning on as they you know get behind j j mccarthy is like hey we saw

this kid lead the game winning drives lead a fourth quarter comeback like hey i mean this is you know that's one bad game against atlanta which i pointed out i mean how many young quarterbacks have had a bad game. And that's why I just think you got to, you have to wait. You have to wait and see and treat those a little bit more like preseason where you could take away a little, but certainly not a lot. But it does feel like a really, really long time ago. Benjamin says Tebow had good energy and excitement too. Wow. Yeah. And you know what? That is true. Tim Tebow did. And so have plenty of successful quarterbacks. You're right. That's exactly what I was doing. Benjamin, I was saying because he seemed excited that he is going to be Joe Montana.

That's what I was saying. You know, I think that because this has been so frustrating to wait and wait and wait and wait for McCarthy to play, there are a lot of people probably in Vikings land who have sort of thrown up their hands like, okay, well, this just isn't going to work out. And that's why I continue to say that it really is just we're going to have to see he's going to have to be on the field. He's going to have to play. And we've got to see more because, you know, right now having no sample size has turned into for some having a bad sample size. I don't really think it is. I don't think those first two games were good. I think Atlanta was really poorly played

by J.J. McCarthy. And the number of times that Kevin O'Connell has brought up the practice thing, I think it's pretty clear that he felt that way as well, that maybe he thought that there was a lot left out there on the field. I would agree with that after watching the game back. But I also thought that there was a lot of stuff that he didn't get credit for in the game against Chicago. And what we've got after two games is, you know, J.J. McCarthy playing well sometimes and not well other times on his 55 dropbacks, which is only about 880 less than bo necks right now. So we don't have anything close to the answer. But, you know, I understand. there were a lot of skeptical folks about J.J. McCarthy from the outset and we watched

training camp and we get to the end of training camp and feel like, okay, I think that he can do this and let's go find out. And so you go to Chicago and they're down in the game and, you know, I'm getting text messages for people. This is why they should have kept Sam Darnold and stuff. It's like, whoa, this is the first half of the first game. And then he wins and it's, oh, he's the franchise quarterback, go back and watch that podcast or listen to that podcast after that game and how much the energy was, the excitement, the locker room scene was crazy in Chicago and the players were all telling stories about McCarthy on the sideline. You know, it's amazing how fast things can change. But I don't think there's a negative correlation between excitement and

success in the NFL. Score one more says not trying to be sarcastic. Didn't they say, When Blake got back, the run defense would be better. The Chargers racked up over 200 yards. Yeah, Blake Cashman, right. Well, that one, that game was also a major part of the score. And when they racked up a lot of those yards was when the game was mostly out of hand. But in terms of how the overall defense has looked, and I just recorded a podcast with Cody Alexander,

one of my favorite people in just the NFL analysis space, a tremendous analyst and this is going to run tomorrow on the podcast feed is the way that this thing was constructed is questionable and the way it's been coached might be questionable as well but really the roster construction and he mentioned moving on from Harrison Phillips and not having a true nose tackle that's played a role in it as far as Blake Cashman and his success if you don't have guys that can stick on their offensive linemen and stuff gaps, then it is harder for someone like Blake Cashman to fly around because the offensive lineman can get out to him and can block him.

But I really did feel like that was just the case because when the game was closer, they were not dominating on the ground the same way that, say, Pittsburgh did for most of that game in the Kenneth Gainwell game. It was mostly Herbert, Herbert, Herbert, Herbert. And then once they're up by 21 points, then, okay, now they're going to hand off to Vidal. The defense is on the field the whole time. And just to give you a preview of that conversation with Cody Alexander, he called it a front running defense. I mean, he said, if you can play from ahead, this defense of front can kill people.

But if you're playing from down 21 and you've been on the field the entire night, it's going to be pretty hard to just shut down the run game. They did a good job the week before against Saquan Barclay. So I don't think it's impossible for them. But there has been a lot of different trickle-down effects. I think getting back, Andrew Van Ginkle will be really big for them in terms of stopping the run. But there's just, there are realities to the way that this thing was built. It was built to be able to shut down third and 10, not necessarily first and 10 down by 20 points.

And that, that I think, is where a lot of those run yards came from. R-P-A-N-R-P-A-N-O-Vix. Sorry, I keep screwing that up. Rhythm and timing is what you want to see from J.J. McCarthy. Yeah, I agree, though. I agree. That is what you want to see is you want to see it look like it can be timely in a lot of different fashions, right?

And the guy who's on the other side, Jared Gough, nobody does it better than playing with rhythm and timing. And that rhythm starts in the huddle. It's get the play into your headset, get it to your teammates, get them lined up with 20 seconds to go on the play clock, 15 seconds to go where you can make any adjustment, check to something else if you need to, and not be having it go five, four, three, two. And you're going, ah, he snapped the ball. We saw that too many times from McCarthy in the first two games where it did not look like he had. full command of the offense and that is the difference between playing in real games and doing it in a joint practice is that if you mess that up it's like oh okay well just do it again

there's no just do it again when the actual lights are at their brightest so uh rhythm and timing usually refers to throwing in rhythm timing with wide receivers timing with your footsteps get to the hitch let it go that kind of thing but i think of it as timing of getting the offense started and then getting everything set up and where you need to go with the football is often determined before the snap, but it's really hard to read the defense when you're scrambling out of the huddle.

So, and I will say that, you know, he's not the only quarterback for the Vikings that's had that problem. So O'Connell was asked today about, you know, looking back at those two games and some of the things that have worked for them and making adjustments. I think there's some clear adaptations. of trying to simplify things to just get him out of the huddle. But I also know that O'Connell feels like you got to know the entire offense for it to work.

So Aaron says, finish the game healthy and I'll call it a success. While it's progress, it would be progress to stay healthy. And that has to be number one thing for sure is get out of Detroit healthy, be able to come back, play a Ravens defense that's been mostly down all season, is starting to improve. but to get on a role of games so he can get comfortable with playing week in and week out, I think is really important for J.J. McCarthy. So even though like maybe you're being a little sarcastic, I also agree with you that getting

out of the game healthy is, is a success. Paints hard, pain, pains hard says I'll take a passing touchdown, only one interception. A catastrophic plays. catastrophic plays can have them that was the thing with the atlanta game is you can look at it any way you want you could say well you know the tackle wasn't playing well Addison wasn't playing well they didn't run the ball very well the well they you know the defense didn't do this or that but if you're going to play quarterback in the NFL you cannot drop snaps you can't get strips act you can't throw interceptions where you're late on someone breaking out of a

route and they read exactly where you're going with the football like turnovers and turnover worthy plays is something that we'll be watching really, really closely here because those are things you can't overcome. If you overthrow a guy, like it was a, it was a McCarthy issue at times in camp and mini camp of just straight up wee, that ball flying way over somebody's head. That's not that bad. If you have that problem, okay, if it's in the middle of the field, maybe a safety catches it. But if you're throwing an out route or something, you're throwing a deep ball and whoops, you threw it over their head, next play. You're fine.

If you are throwing interceptions because you're not timing your routes correctly, if you're getting strips sacked because you're not getting rid of the football or identifying rushes up front or seeing what's going on in front of you up front and protecting the ball, there's nothing that anybody can do to help you schematically when that is the issue. I shot you 99. My answer to the Fandul question of the day, need McCarthy to be decisive and get the ball out of hands quickly. That's number one. Number one on my list is, yes, decisiveness would be that, like show control of this offense, show that you know it, show that you know where the football

is supposed to be. And that's what I mean, getting the calls in and out, getting to the line of scrimmage, getting the ball out of your hands. You have to know at this point, if you're O'Connell, that getting some of those package type plays, those easy button type plays, those are going to have to be a part of this, but they can't be all of it. You can't draw up every screen. You can't draw, like at some point, you need the quarterback, probably out of, I don't know, 30 dropbacks, at least 15 to 20 times. You need him to stand at the line of scrimmage, read where he's supposed to go with the

football, take the snap, step back, two steps, and throw it. And if you, and you saw the stat that I showed you with the yards after catch for Green Bay. I mean, that's, they're getting the ball out of Jordan Love's hands so fast these days. There are so many passes. I'm going to look this up real quick. How many passes Jordan Love is thrown in under two and a half seconds? And I'm sorry that I know some of you get visibly upset when I bring up Jordan Love and success, but I feel like it's been coached really, really well in Green Bay, really well.

So in terms of, yeah, here you go. Let's see. Joe Flacco, Patrick Mahomes. Where is Jordan? Okay. So Jordan Love, here you. you go in less than two and a half seconds jordan love is averaging seven point nine yards per attempt which is number two in the nfl the only guy that's higher is josh allen i mean that tells

a story right there daniel jones also seven point eight yards per pass attempt when he gets rid of the football in two point five seconds jordan love is fourth in the league in pf f grade when he gets rid of it in less than two and a half seconds i mean there's just a story being told here love has the highest completion percentage, and here's Jared Goff is averaging 7.3 yards per attempt when he gets rid of it in two and a half seconds. Like it's, it's a thing. It is a very real thing. If you can get rid of the football quickly and you've got a good scheme, good players, the Vikings have those things that you could succeed. Benjamin wants a 70% completion percentage. If it's 65, I'll take it. If it's less than 60, you're still asking, hey, come on. Like, what's going on

there because, you know, less, if you can hover around 60 to 65 completion of percentage, which is not a great stat, by the way. But if that's kind of where you're at, you can move an offense. If you're below 60, you're missing a lot of passes. And it's going to be very hard to maintain drives. Zoomer, K.O. Fandual question of the day, I need to see effort and competitiveness from the Vikings as a whole. Yeah, well, this game, they are overmatched. Overall, when you look at the two teams. And I mean, this is clear on paper every stat. The Detroit Lions have been the much, much better team than the Vikings. In fact, the Lions might be the best team in the entire NFL on paper. Maybe, you know, that loss to Kansas City, a little bit of a question there. But the way they beat

down Tampa Bay, they've put up big numbers. They've had blowout wins. This is a very, very good football team. And Alie McNeil coming back is a nightmare for the Vikings because his interior rush is phenomenal and that interior rush has been a big problem over the last few weeks with Blake Brando and we'll see if he's starting again. But the interior rush has been an issue that they've had to face with a backup center in the game. So they're going to face a lot of pressure. It's going to be really hard to stop Jemir Gibbs and James and Amund Ross, St. Brown and Sam Laporteur. Like this is a team that is completely stacked. And if they can hang in a game with J.J. McCarthy coming back for the first time. Let's even say that it's 28, 24, you lose the game.

I mean, that's not where this was supposed to be. It's not what the season was supposed to be. But, and the circumstances right now with the defense having the struggles that they've had this year so far, if that's the game you lose and McCarthy keeps you in it to the very end and has puts 24 points on the board, then you feel pretty good about that. So I tend to agree. that you're right, that competitiveness and being in this game at the end, if that's where you're at, then, you know, that's, I think you're, you're in pretty good shape. Score one more says the dude hasn't played.

We really need to lower our expectations. Uh, yeah, I mean, it depends on where your expectations are. Like, everybody is going to have different expectations. Uh, fan duels are two and two hundred and twelve point five yards. I think that that's about fair for what you should expect for how heavily they're going to lead on him to throw the football. If they do get down in the game, you're probably putting up more yardage just by proxy of having to throw and throw. But, you know, I think that's a fair number in a close type of game. If your expectation is that he can run the operation, make some throws, make some plays, flash some next level athletic ability, flash some next level,

arm talent and be in the game in the fourth quarter, I don't think that's a high bar for a young quarterback. I mean, I think that that's a fair place to set the expectations. I don't think you're putting that through the roof. I'm not saying if J.J. McCarthy doesn't go out and throw for 300 and win this game against the Lions that he's a bust and they need to move on. I'm not saying that maybe that'll be the aggregated version, but that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that there's a lot of these cues that we can get from him of, can you show that you look like the starting quarterback of an NFL team that can move the football and get the football to the wide receivers you have and throw to the voids, as he said, make some plays with the

feet. I mean, that's, that is, I think, fair because that's stuff that can project forward. If you go out there and you throw the ball, you know, while you're getting hit and it bounces off someone and you run it for a 50 yard touchdown, well, that's not really stuff. That's good for the box score, but that's not really stuff that is going to travel from week to week. You're looking for things that are going to travel and get a baseline of where you can improve on throughout the next 10 weeks, and then you start to build that sample size. Bry L70s, being able to get rid of the ball faster and showing more accuracy on the short passes. Totally agree. Accuracy on the short passes. Timing on the short passes.

That is something that he has to improve hugely. I mean, it was really a problem that they did not succeed at all in short passing. And that's where, you know, we've seen people bring up like, well, why didn't, why didn't they just call short pass plays? And the ones that they did and the ones that he threw, they weren't very good. And actually his best throws were the intermediate stuff, which is part of that article that I wrote and read some of earlier is he has been really good. at being able to get the ball into those intermediate areas.

He's been good on first and 10. First and 10, he's nine for 12 passing in those first two games. And you can use some play action at that point. And it's a run pass type of situation. So, yeah, like you can, you can do those things with first down and 10. But you have to be able to complete the stuff that's under 10 yards to move an offense consistently, especially with defense is saying, we're going to dare you. to rack up a 15 play drive.

Like that's how defense is played these days is a lot of teams are playing their safeties back. Now, Detroit might not do that as much because they are a more aggressive team. They do play cover one more than other teams. But still, like most teams are saying to you, hey, we kind of dare you to complete eight passes to get a touchdown.

And J.J. McCarthy has to be able to do that in a timely fashion to get seven completion, six completions on a drive to be able to move the ball. so I totally agree with that. Ben says call plays that have short options, limit the number of dropbacks that require the route to develop. Yeah, yeah, that, I mean, this is the hard balance is that Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison

are really, really good at running those routes that you're talking about. I mean, think about some of the best plays since Carson Wentz was starting. I mean, it's a lot of downfield stuff. It's not all just, you know, checkdowns or quick little, you know, have Justin Jefferson just stand there and catch the ball and run with it. That was a good play. But a lot of it has been, hey, here's Justin Jefferson against Cleveland down the middle of the field. And that does take a little bit of time to get there. And it does take a good throw to get the ball there.

But you also have to have a mix of being able to get the ball out of his hands, get him into a rhythm. So I don't want to say exclusively, hey, just short pass, short pass. Like sometimes this becomes like a meme where it's just where it's like, are we just looking at things and yelling short pass? Like throw short, throw short, throw short, throw short, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like this guy was brought here also to use the cannon to throw down the field 15 to 20 yards where all of his best throws were at Michigan. So I don't want to say, KOC, get rid of all that stuff.

But I think you have to have passes that get a guy going. And not only just get a guy going from the quarterback position, but also get Addison going, get Justin Jefferson going, get some comfort there, just like the get a bucket type of idea. So it has to be somewhat of a mix. Ben also wants the game script to be run heavy early on and creativity to get Jets the ball. Yeah, the creativity to get Justin Jefferson the ball, I think over the last not Thursday, nothing happened on Thursday. the few games before that, I thought was really good. And I asked Jefferson about that last week before the game. And he likes, I mean, of course he likes those plays, the ball's in his hand,

but he likes an opportunity to get yards after catch, to line up in the back field to get a swing pass or to have a little bit of a tricky alignment and get him a slant real quick just to get the football in his hands and get him going. So that's what I'm talking about it. It can't be all of one of those things. It can't be just, hey, just use a bunch of gimmicky stuff and short passes when then you're limiting what your wide receivers do best and then you're limiting what J.J. McCarthy does best. I want to see the connection between him and Addison.

I definitely do too. Definitely do too because that's one that in training camp, when we're talking about these anticipation throws and stuff like that that we didn't see a lot of in the first couple games, well, the guy that he was throwing those. anticipation balls to was Jordan Addison almost every time. And so we do want to see that connection. And it's unfortunate that over the last five weeks, neither, you know, he hasn't been in there. And then at the beginning of the year, Addison wasn't in there. So now they get their first opportunity. It's not coming right off of training camp and carrying over that momentum into the season. But nonetheless, at least he had a really good sense for, okay, like this is how Jordan Madison runs his routes. This is when I could put the ball up to him. This is where I could

throw it and he could go get it. And he just didn't get an opportunity to be able to carry that over into the season. Marcus, I just want to see JJ throw a touchdown. I don't expect to. You don't expect to. I think he'd get one. But need to see it out of him for some hope. That is kind of, I think, emblematic right there, that comment of where a lot of people are at, just with this team, overall because it has been a really rough ride so far for the Minnesota Vikings. I mean, it just has. And this has been, I think the probably, let's see, it's not the biggest gap between expectations and reality because that would be 2010.

It doesn't get much different, you know, much worse than that. Like 2010 expecting to go back and have a chance at the Super Bowl and then Brett far of just not being Brett Farv anymore. So I think that was probably the biggest disappointment that Vikings fans have faced in the last 20 years. And then it would be 2018 where you come off of an NFC championship appearance. You sign Kirk Cousins. That was not quite the same as Far of because Far as one of the greatest players of all

time and you just expected him to do it again. Whereas Kirk Cousins, you know, maybe there was some like, hey, this guy was coming off a seven and nine season and has sort of been a 500 quarterback. and some skepticism there about whether he could actually take that to the next level, but still, nonetheless, a pretty big disappointment. This one falls right in that same category so far. And if you're just, if you're just looking for, hey, just give me one JJ McCarthy touchdown to cling onto, I don't blame you for that because this team has not given you a lot to cling

onto over these last couple of weeks. They really haven't. really actually at any point this season outside of J.J. McCarthy leading a touchdown drive to win in Chicago. And man, it's crazy how things can change because in that press box in Chicago, as Dane Mizatani are doing our podcast and a cleaning lady is no disrespect, but, you know, she's doing her job behind us and flushing a toilet in the background and we're like, come on, we're trying to break down like one of the coolest things we've seen covering this team and you're flushing a toilet in the background.

I will not forget that. But the energy of the locker room and doing that podcast after and thinking about like, what did they, what is this got for us? Like, what does this season have in store for us? This could be a crazy ride. And then it just has not gone that way. It's, it's been very disappointing, I think, and especially for Vikings fans who after that game were all in on J.J. McCarthy, ready to, ready to go for whatever was going to come

in this season. and if they were three and four and McCarthy had played like the combination of McCarthy and Wentz, it would still be disappointing and people would still be talking about, hey, maybe you should have had Sam Darnold, but at least we would get data on J.J. McCarthy. At least we would be able to say, here's what's worked, here's what hasn't worked, here's what he's got to do in the future. And to not have even that, to not even have a touchdown like you're talking about, that I think has been the hardest.

part. Justin's still positive on the Vikings even after being at the game in LA. Well, you are, you are tough, Justin, for that. They're getting healthy and we haven't seen this team healthy once this year. Let's give it through November before we burn it all down. Yeah, I think that that's reasonable, but I don't know if, like, if all the problems are fixable. Now, we have seen defenses turn it around in the middle of seasons. Defense can be so fickle and so confusing sometimes. The Baltimore Ravens last year had one of the worst defenses in the NFL

and then all of a sudden it was like, wait, they're good now? That happens sometimes. And I wouldn't be shocked if the offense started playing better if all of a sudden the defense starts playing better. Getting Van Ginkle back, having Harrison Smith having played some games now

and getting into a rhythm, having Cashman back, like that this is much closer to the full unit, that they expected and Dallas Turner can get into more of a role that they expected to have Dallas Turner in and that kind of thing. And I think with Jonathan Granard, he's had so many pressures that will turn into sacks at some point that haven't because Justin Herbert's six foot six or because Jalen Hertz is one of the strongest quarterbacks in the league. A lot of these things that haven't clicked, it's possible that they do. When you are in this big of a hole,

it's really tough to find anything to circle and be like, oh, this points to their future success, especially when you're about to play two of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. And then not too long from now, you're traveling to Green Bay in late November, which is not an easy task. So I think there's probably two different ways to look at it. If you're talking about from a standings perspective, from a, hey, they could get hot and get back into this thing, that to me, is a pretty far-fetched idea,

considering how good Detroit and Green Bay are. Now, if they beat Detroit, then maybe we could talk. But if they don't beat Detroit, they're three and five playing the Ravens at home, and that's, yeah, that is far-fetched. But in terms of, like, ending this season in a way you feel good about it, that remains on the table because of number nine. Mr. Mayor,

Fandul question of the day, just want J.J. McCarthy to not look panicked out of his mind, every play when they zoom in on him, it'd be nice if he doesn't can out of every single play within three seconds of the clock. Yeah, that's the biggest, that's the biggest thing for sure of J.J. McCarthy is just, it's got to start there. It has to start with get to the line of scrimmage and get the playoff and not trying to switch plays every time. I totally agree with that. Now, sometimes you have to and it's the smart thing to do and you check into a run when you've got the right look and that's how you play football. But if you're not out of,

of the huddle, just run the play and do the best you can with it. Because standing there and, you know, smacking yourself in the head over and over again until the play clock runs out, you're not going to get much out of that. But the operation, I think, is what you're talking about. DLM, where it does matter is if KOC didn't learn his lesson with play calling in those first two games, he needs reps, but not if it's KOC setting him up for failure from the get-go behind our patchwork line. it's not supposed to be a patchwork line this time. It's not supposed to be against Detroit.

Now, they're going to be able to create pressure, but Christian Derisaw practiced in full. That's progress. Brian O'Neill was limited. So that would be a concern. Also, Jonathan Granard was limited. Whether they will have Brian O'Neill back or not is up in the air. But getting Christian Darrasaw, it seems, practicing in full should help. But also, you're just never going to have It's hard to have a full complete offensive line looking and feeling great. Now, what happened with Wentz the other night with three backups, now that's, that is extreme. But in this case, if you're playing with one backup, two backups, well, that's kind of how it goes in football. You got to figure out ways to work around it.

But the Kevin O'Connell part of this, I always get very uncomfortable trying to say, well, look, it didn't work. And how about that stat that I brought up earlier against the Blitz? well, you must be calling all the wrong plays. But last year, Sam Darnold averaged nine and a half yards per attempt, 12 touchdowns, zero picks against the Blitz. So I guess he was calling the good plays then and the bad plays now. Like, that's always a tricky thing for me because we have these past years where good quarterbacks have played well with this play calling and with this system.

Now, that doesn't mean it's right on third down and one to try to roll out broken Carson Wentz and have that play blown up immediately. like run the ball. I mean, I think there's specific ideas that we could talk about, but against Cleveland, against Philadelphia. I mean, I thought, okay, red zone, maybe you've got questions on that for, again, why you didn't run on second down in 10 or some of that was bad luck

where you have a bad holding call that kind of ruins a drive and maybe a wide open T.J. Hawkinson that Carson Wentz can't get the football to and then is it a catch and that kind of thing. but when you look at how they move the football and the success rate in the game against Philadelphia, I can't come out of that and say, wow, they messed everything up with play calling. They were moving the ball all day. And against Cleveland, they had, I think, enough success passing it against Miles Garrett and a great D-line to say, well, I think that was pretty good.

Those were a little bit of adapted, adjusted game plans from what we may have seen earlier. But I also think that the way that O'Connell has talked about that Atlanta game sort of tells you how much was just execution on some of those plays? And I felt the same way as I was watching it back. Now, that's not all that way. A lot of it was personnel. And I had a criticism about, you know, the team has got a chance to get back in that game at 14 to 6. And you start off with an empty protection that ends up being blown up with a

strip sack. And that's a little bit like your quarterback is really struggling. Is this what you want to do right now? So there's some of that. there's some of that common sense within the game and not getting lost within the game and just calling plays that through the years I have maybe observed or critiqued. But I think when people call KOC a bad play caller, I just can't, I just can't get there with you.

Not after watching last year, not after watching Kirk Cousins, especially early in 2023, can't, can't, can't just say, oh, this guy has no idea what he's doing. Not when they were smoking the blitzes. not when last year Sam Darnold had a hundred and twenty nine quarterback rating when he's running play action. Like those are plays that are drawn up by the play caller. You got to be able to do it. You've got to be able to do it. Now can you cut it down?

Can you simplify it? Can you make it easier? Can you get more yards after catch? Absolutely. And those are things that I want to see. So I'm like halfway in there with you. Kerpluppy says, do you think KOC's behavior with Brosmer has anything to do with his handling of Jaron Hall? I recall his takeaway from that experience.

is I shouldn't have rushed a young QB in like that. That's possible. Yeah, that's possible. And, you know, look, Jaron Hall, that was a tough one. I think that Jaron is a really good dude. Sorry, I got to open a diet Dr. Pepper here. Turn the heat on in the house and it's hot. Turn it up too high.

Okay. Sorry about that. But, you know, they were struggling. and they were frustrated by Nick Mullins and all the interceptions and O'Connell just said, you know what, screw it. It's Jaron Hall time. And Jaron Hall was good in practice.

He was good in preseason and training camp and we liked a lot of stuff we saw. And then he got out there and was not ready to play and the Green Bay Packers ate him alive. And then that's possible that that was influential in not putting Brosmer out there too early. Now, I think that when the game gets to a certain point, when history says one game ever has been won,

when ESPN's Gamecast has it at 0.1%. Yeah, it's time to put in Max Brosmer and just have him handoff, just have him run some screens or checkdowns or something. But I think in terms of the people who said, hey, you've got a better chance to win with Brosmer, that might be true or it might have been catastrophic. You have to give Max Brosmer time as well.

And I like Brosmer a lot. I saw the half-joking report from Kevin Seifert that he said, you know, hey, maybe he didn't want to put in Brozmer to not create a quarterback controversy with him. And, you know, some of you have picked up on that. I think that's obviously pretty silly. I just think that the progress that Max Brozmer has made, you want next year for him to go into training camp and compete in training camp and win a number two job and show you that he's going to be a quarterback for a long time,

putting him in too early, potentially taking some hits, trying to try to him start that game over Wentz. I mean, with the hits that Wentz took, you don't want that for a young quarterback who might not have all the answers. I mean, even a veteran quarterback didn't have the answers and took a ton of hits, Khalil Max, out there. I mean, they've got pressure everywhere. I don't think that it would have been very successful to have Brosmer in there.

It's better to look forward to the future with him. So you can think that the future is, is bright without being kind of silly about it, like just, hey, I want to see anything else and anyone else play other than Carson Wentz. But maybe it's possible that that experience did influence the way that Kevin O'Connell handled that, that he felt like, you know, maybe he did rush a little bit too much with Jared Hall. And I just think in general that young quarterbacks, you heard Searle say this, the other day. When he watches young quarterbacks around the league, what's the number one issue?

It's just it's seeing it out there, seeing how quick the game is, processing it quickly, getting rid of the football. And I've liked the processing speed of the mind of Max Brosmer in training camp, impressive. The way it ended in preseason,

impressive. The anticipation throws, all impressive, quite different against the Los Angeles Chargers who are killing your two offensive tackles and sending blitzes up the middle on your backup center. Just different story, different human beings, not third stringers, not second stringers. Second stringers are not good, as we know, around the league. You compare that to third stringers, four stringers.

Like, let's let him develop. Let's let him develop. And he might get in some games. Like, we don't know. It's possible. They signed John Wolford, who's played before in the league. And at some point, he's a pro. And if he's got to play, then he's got to go play.

That night, though, would not have necessarily wanted to see that. Justin, did they have Brandel at center?