Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - JJ McCarthy fully practices, ankle feels 'amazing' (Part 2)

Episode Date: October 30, 2025

Matthew Coller talks about JJ McCarthy's comments about returning and what Carson Wentz and Kevin O'Connell had to say about Wentz's situation. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This episode of Purple Insider is presented by Fandul. Justin, did they have Brandel at center? That I don't know. When it comes to practice, what we see in practice is the warm-ups. So in the season. During training camp, we see everything. We watch the whole practice. But in the season, we just see the warm-ups.

So we don't know if Brandl is going to be the starting center. I would think that he will be because you're looking for someone with more experience in a place like Ford Field, being able to identify blitzes, being able to help J.J. McCarthy with the protections. I think you probably want Brandel there, even though, you know, you are talking about somebody who is a mismatch in not the good way against some of these really good defensive tackles. I mean, Tileak Williams is a big guy, powerful young. young player. Aleem McNeil is an absolute monster. I think he's one of the most underrated players in the league. So it's not going to be an easy matchup there. That's for sure. Um, but no matter who plays, I don't think it's a, it's a good matchup. Marcus would like to see JJ roll out and protect himself. Getting him on the move, I think is a really good idea. Getting him rolling, he could throw on the

move. That's something that we didn't see too much of in the first two games, but would like to see that. there was one play where he kind of just rolled out and had to check it to C.J. Ham, and it looked ugly, but it was actually like a good play by him, I think. So yeah, I agree with you. That's, that's pretty good there. Ben says I would commit to him for this year and next. If he sucks next year, our record would reflect that. And it could be a decent quarterback draft in 2027. That's something that I'm not far enough down the road on anything. And I know that, you know, people like to get there quickly. I haven't thought about the 2027 quarterback. draft. Maybe it's going to be good. I don't know. I haven't thought about McCarthy not being on the

team. But in terms of the 10 game evaluation and then going into next year, it would really only be a circumstance where it looked like Anthony Richardson or Trey Lance where you said, this can't be the person throwing to Justin Jefferson next year. If it's, if it looks like that, if it's that much of a struggle, then you can't continue down that path. Now, To me, that outcome, if we're doing a pie chart. In fact, why don't we? Why don't we do a pie chart? Okay, the outcomes that I gave earlier in the show were absolute freak show, totally dominant, gets them into the playoffs, wins seven to last 10, instant superstar.

Then it was pretty good. Maybe wins half the games, shows some talent, has some ups and downs. Then the third one was, we're still really not sure, wins three, maybe four. has a couple of good games, more not-so-great games. And then the last one is, what the heck was that? I think that the megastar, the instant megastar, is probably a 10% outcome with his experience and what we've seen a little bit already,

just going out there and totally dominating other teams, taking over, becoming the next Josh Allen, not super likely, probably even less than that. I might even just go like 5%, just because how many quarterbacks are that in general? So totally dominant freak show monster animal. Let's just go 5% chance. The next one is more like 35% where he's pretty darn good and performs really well.

They win half the games. It looks good mostly. Has some rocky moments. I think that's still very much on the table. So that's 40%. That'll go 35% there. Let's go another 40%. that it's three or four wins and we're just really not sure.

So that gets us to 80. And then I suppose it's probably 20% chance that it's just not good at all. And it goes in a way that you're looking for other quarterbacks to come in and compete. Maybe 20% is a little high, knowing how hard the kid's going to work and so forth. But I think what also falls into that 20% would be an injury and another injury that causes problems. So throw that into like we still don't know. because the sample size isn't good enough because there's another injury. Let's put that at about 20%.

So that's the range of outcomes there. And I think the middle two are by far the most likely. You're either going to feel pretty darn good or pretty unsure. But I don't think it's going to be a wild extreme of, hey, this is by far all set or, hey, this is by far. Don't bring any competition in whatsoever. Overall, though, I generally agree with your idea. though like don't don't make a decision on this like you're not cutting him you're not trading him

you're you're not basing everything on this you have to have the assumption as you're going forward j jay mccarthy's going to be your quarterback this year and next then we'll see from there but if it goes a certain way then you at least need to have competition you're not looking for maybe a new starter but you at least need to have competition uh jerry says tight end needs to stay home and block more often that's the problem with not having uh josh oliver in the game that makes it tougher. I also think that you need T.J. Hawkinson to throw the ball to. When you look around the league, there's a lot of tight ends who are succeeding.

It's successful plays. I have this in my article, but I believe throwing to Sam Leporta, in terms of a successful play, which you can look up the definition, but it kind of tells the story in itself. It's like 70% of the time they throw in the ball. It's a successful play. I mean, it's a good play. In Hawkinson, last year, last two years, I think is 54.

percent. So it's a good play to get the tight end of the football. So you can't just go max protect all the time and send out, you know, two or three receivers. That's just not really a viable strategy, especially when T.J. Hawkinson is your tight end. Like, he's supposed to be a playmaker. Let's see. DL.M says we all laughed at Ben Johnson when he talked about getting out of the huddle and lining up until we saw the Vikings regular season. Fair enough. Fair enough. You really do have to be able to do that. And we still see the bears having problems with it, though. I just read Courtney Cronin the other day where she was writing about pre-snap penalties

and stuff are still an issue. So if it continues to be for the Vikings, that is a red flag. That I agree with. Let's see. Score one more says Ty and Elijah would make a big difference. Probably not. I think, I mean, I'd like to see, I'd assume you mean, you mean, Elijah Williams. I'd like to see a little more of him. And as we go along, a lot more if it's going

badly for the defensive tackles. Ty Felton, I think Jalen Naylor's been really good, really good so far this year and just hasn't gotten the football. I mean, this is like a, hey, I watch the tape every week, but I think Jalen Naylor's been really good. If I'm another team, I would look at that and go, hey, let's get this guy in. Let's give them the football. I mean, they use them on one reverse. How about three reverses. He's gone down the field some, but I thought, I think that he has played well so far this year. It just hasn't really shown up in the statistics because the quarterbacks are not getting him the football. But Ty Felton is another example of this guy's drafted at the back end of the third round. He's just going to need some time. I don't think you should ask

those players to be difference makers on your team right now, just develop him for next year. Corey says, JJ can process all he wants. Ford Field will be very forgiving. Well, mean, if he's processing well, then, you know, Ford Field is difficult, just like many places are difficult. Soldier Field is difficult and was for him, but that doesn't mean that you just walk in there and melt into a thousand pieces. If you're processing well, if you're getting the operational stuff together and you're getting to the line of scrimmage and you're able to determine pre-snap basically what you're

going to do, then you've got a really good chance to succeed right there. And if you're processing, it just means that you're seeing a step ahead of based on what the defense is doing, based on the play that you have, where does the football need to go, and then being right a lot. And Jared Goff never gets enough credit in the NFL because he's not a highlight reel. He's a processing monster. And play after play after play after play, this guy just gets it right. His guesses are right. You know, the other quarterbacks who are considered the best of the best, their guesses might not always be right, but they're just freaks athletically.

And so they're more fun to watch. But golf, like, he's exactly what you want J.J. McCarthy to look like is with a little more speed, with a little more running ability. But that same sort of, yeah, processing, just meaning here's my options, here's where they're going to be versus what defense I'm seeing, and then throwing with anticipation to those spaces on time. That's all it really is. Keith says, and all of you good folks, are answering the Fandul question of the day here.

And that Fandual question of the day was the over under for J.J. McCarthy for this game, 212.5. What do you need to see to feel like McCarthy had a good game? That is the Fandual question of the day that folks are responded to here with a lot of great answers. Keith says one thing I want to see from McCarthy is to win in Detroit. He can do it, especially with the route so far. Well, look, I mean, asking him to win this game, I think is a lot because that has a lot more to do with, I mean, just think about like the defense and the special teams and like the entire game, whether you can actually win or not. Now, him winning in Detroit would be great for him.

I mean, it would be a real springboard for him for the rest of the season, even if that win is ugly, even if it's hideous, even if it needs a pick six from the viking, like finding a way to beat this team of this caliber. of Detroit would be enormous, especially when they've played really well defensively. It's just, I don't need that to think he played well. Doing it is sort of obvious. I mean, if they win, yeah. I mean, then, well, that's great for him. I don't need that from him to say he did well. That would be my point.

SF will, KOC needs to go heavy and bring an extra offensive lineman to run the ball. You know, it's a, it's a thing that makes sense. And I like the six offensive linemen, but it's not something they've ever done. and they really don't have a guy to do it. Like, remember when they had Aviont Collins, where they would kind of do that with him from time to time. The Dan Skipper is the great example of this. I don't know who that guy is on the Vikings.

I've never seen them go six offensive linemen because they have Josh Oliver. That's the unfortunate part about not having Oliver for this game is that you can't really go as much with the bigger personnel. They're probably going to have to go mostly 11 personnel in this. this game with T.J. Hawkinson and maybe sometimes with, uh, you know, I don't know, Ben, Ben Yurasek has to go out there or Nick Vinette. I mean, they really don't have any depth there beyond just T.J. Hawkinson. So I think you're going to see a lot of three wide receivers. And we'll see about, uh, C.J. Ham and in his health. I mean, it's, uh, the injuries

still, like, even though it's not, uh, Derasaw necessarily still can play a role in this game. But I think that's why we're talking about get the ball out quickly, because, And it's just not a Vikings thing either. It's hard to just flip the switch and say, all right, you know what? Go from here's the root of your offense to something completely different. Like, it isn't a Madden Playbook. They have a scheme that they build and they teach and there's options within it. But it's not like you could just go hocus, pocus, different offense.

Like, it's just this is not how it works. So, you know, they have stuff for bigger personnel because of Josh Oliver, but they often run out of it. I'm not against it if Oliver's in, but the fact that he's out, uh, hurts that possibility. Mr. Mayor,

why is this team so bad at tackling? How do they fix it? It seems like they need to bring in a rock climber or something to teach them grip strength exercises. Yeah, I don't know if that's it. That feels like, uh,

something out of dodge ball or whatever. Uh, if you can dodge a wrench, you can tackle a running back. Uh, don't know the answer to that question. I think it's probably player based. I can look at who has the most mistackles on the team so far this year.

But, you know, I think Cam Bynum was a really good tackler. And, you know, maybe I'm getting annoying from bringing up Cam Bynum repeatedly. But I think we all thought, hey, you know, the safety position. Maybe it's not one that you pay that much. But, you know, I think they've missed him there. Eric Wilson is the team leader in mistackles. I think we know this about Wilson. He's a good player.

And I really like Eric Wilson, but I like him in the role that he's in, which is not asked to be Blake Cashman. And through the time he's asked to be Blake Cashman, that's just, that's a tough ask for a guy who was an undrafted free agent, kind of fought to be here through special teams. He's had opportunities before as a starter, but this is one of the issues, not the biggest guy. And when you have an undersized linebacker going up against good running backs, it could be tough. so he's number one there. Ivan Pace and his drop-off has been pretty shocking. And, you know, linebackers and mistackles are also determined by what's going on in front of them. Because if you have running backs coming through free,

hey, I'm untouched until I get to the linebacker, not guys who are sort of, oh, I'm jukeying, slowing down, getting pulled down from behind, and then the linebacker comes in and helps with the tackle. But I'm one-on-one with you a lot harder for linebackers to make. tackle. So I think it kind of all affects each other. But Ivan Pace dropping off from being a guy that was an exciting young player to almost unplayable or, I mean, virtually unplayable in the last two games, really, really surprising. And that's reflected in that missed tackles, that 15 missed

tackles for Ivan Pace. Wow. And then, you know, defensive linemen you kind of expect, like Jonathan Grenard is up there, but, you know, a lot of that's chasing quarterbacks. You would like to see him, you know, get some more sacks, but his pressures have just been fantastic. That stuff is, is going to come at some point. Defensive linemen getting in the backfield, getting some of those. Mattelis has 12 this year. Overall, his tackling grade is good, though. Kind of speaks to the number of opportunities.

So it's been a little bit of everything, but I really think that it starts up front. This is why it's funny. I remember when I met my wife, this is a nose tackle story. Now, right? Like, I'm just going to tell you guys about true love here. Folks, this year is the year that I actually get my holiday shopping going early for all of my friends and family. And there's only one place on the internet that's going to help me best. It's called Uncommon Goods.

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Just personalized care on your schedule. For simple online access to personalize and affordable care for hair loss, ED, weight loss, and more, visit Hymns.com slash Purple Insider. That is Hymns.com slash Purple Insider for your free online. Visit Hymns.com. slash Purple Insider. Individual results may vary based on studies of topical and oral monoxidil and finestriide. Featured products include compound drug products which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety effectiveness or quality. Prescription required. See website for full details, restrictions, and important safety information. So when I met my wife, her family had come from the Pittsburgh area. Like they had roots in Pittsburgh.

so they had in as parts of her family like longtime Pittsburgh Steelers fans so when she was a kid they went to she grew up in Los Angeles they went to a San Diego Chargers Pittsburgh Steelers game and so she was watching the Steelers a lot and things like that following them along you know and so forth and I remember saying to her on one of our first dates again like this is this is who I am folks I said You know, you know who makes me emotional watching them play football as Casey Hampton? Like, man, I could, I just, that is, that is incredible to me to watch Casey Hampton play football. Now, if you don't remember Casey Hampton, he was their defensive tackle for all those great defenses of the 2000s, the Ben Rothesberger era. And I remember talking to Bryant McFadden, who was on those teams. He's Patrick Peterson's cousin. He's on CBS. And we were talking about it.

And he just raved about Casey Hampton, which made me very happy. because if you can take up two guys, if you can overpower centers and guards and they can't move you, it's much easier for linebackers to come in and make tackles because the running back is not hitting you at full speed. He's not hitting you clean. He's having to slow down, look for places to go

and try to juke and try to move around and then accelerate quickly, and you can just come tackle them. And remember, they had all those great linebackers on those Pittsburgh teams. And look, you know, you can use Pat Williams as an example for this, too. And I don't think Harrison Phillips was Casey Hampton. I don't think Harrison Phillips was Pat Williams.

But he and Jonathan Bullard kind of did that. They just held guys up. And they were like, all right, this is my job. And PFF's not going to love it. And it didn't. And the linebackers are all going to look better. And that's how defense works sometimes. And that's why, you know, you can't just use grades to determine everything because

some, there's impact. So I think when you're talking about mistackles, that not having run stuffers, like true gap fillers, true powerful guys up front, it's hurt them. And that was one of the bets that they made. They made a bet that they could play these two guys, Hargrave and Allen, a high percentage of the snaps, and that they'd be rushing the passer all day, and they haven't been. And when we look at this, it's kind of crazy.

Javon Hargrave, even for example, he has only been on the field for 118 pass rush snaps and 96 run defense snaps. Jonathan Allen, it's 50, 50. It's 170 to 151. Let me compare that to the rest of the league, just to really make this point. And that's how you end up with the linebackers

constantly in position where they're getting, you know, run down their throat. So to make this point, Zach Allen of the Denver Broncos has been on the field for 263 pass rush snaps. That is first in the league, 263. Jonathan Allen is 35th in the league at 170. I mean, that's just, oh, and by the way, Zach Allen has only been on the field for 135 runs.

So Jonathan Allen has actually been on the field for more runs than Zach Allen, who has got a hundred more chances to rush the passer. It's just, it's, it's amazing how defense works like that, where it could just be so tricky to try to figure out. But, man, like, it tells you how the circumstances have impacted everything, including the linebacker grades and the mistackles and all that sort of stuff. VA Vikings says Jordan Love sucks. Show your work.

You're going to have to prove that. you're just going to have to prove that I'm sorry that for the Vikings fans who wanted Jordan Love to be bad because that's got to be that's got to be irritating he's not is he perfect though no he's not but if J.J. McCarthy plays like Jordan Love

has this year you guys will lose your minds you'll tattoo J.J. McCarthy's number on your face if he plays as well as Jordan Love this year. Love's been great the Packers have built a great team so have the Lions And that's why I think that this is, it feels crushing to have a lot of these bets as we're talking about go wrong. Now, if the Vikings can play from a lead, if they do have more success offensively, you'll see those numbers change that we were just talking about on defense. BM says, didn't shock me that darn old is good, but I'm floored that Daniel Jones is serviceable, let alone one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL.

I totally agree with you. totally agree. I never saw it coming. Now, I would have thought that he would win that job because Anthony Richardson was so bad. I thought, okay, well, I'm not shocked that Daniel Jones has won the job. He's a very smart player and had had his moments. I mean, the guy won a playoff game and he was good in that one season and he's got athleticism. So like, hey, maybe they'll be like a 500 team. I didn't see that coming, but maybe. hand. Their offensive line is so good. You could see why they were ready to move on from Ryan Kelly and Will Fries because their offensive line is so good. They've got the MVP, I think,

of the entire league in the backfield. That helps. And that's another point about how things affect each other. If you can run that well, then everything is there for you. And we'll see if I can find the stat on this about, you know, the play action and Daniel Jones. Because I'm pretty sure that he is just crushing on play action, which does play off. of the run game. Let's see. Daniel Jones has, yep, number one in the NFL at 808 yards, 9.6 yards per attempt on play action,

Daniel Jones, and 34% of the time, which is number one in the National Football League. So that really shows you, right, is when we try to judge quarterbacks that, okay, you know, Mahomes, Alan, those guys, they're going to be good no matter what. but even like Jared Goff, who the Vikings are getting ready to play, when their team was tanking, Jared Goff's not that good. And when they couldn't block it up for Jared Goff in Los Angeles in his last year

there, 2020, Jared Goff wasn't as good. If you could pressure him this week, he won't be as good. That's just how it is for Jared Goff. He has to have a running game to play off of. He has to have a screen game to play off of, to be the best version of himself. But, you know, you want to see. those things also set up for J.J. McCarthy as well, but it just sort of ties into even a Daniel Jones, who is talented and is a first round draft pick, but a Sam

Darnold as well. Last year, he's got the best receivers. This year, they've got a really good receiver, a good offense. And if you've got the talent, you can make it work. And that's at least what we have here for the Vikings. At least what we have here is, I would say, a control, call it a control, where you know the receivers can catch the ball and you know the offense can work for good quarterbacks. If they can block it up, you know it can work. So if J.J. McCarthy can't execute it at all, then it's not a Justin Jefferson issue. It's not a Jordan Addison issue. It's probably not even a KOC issue, though. He will get destroyed for it. And look, it was his decision in part, if not solely, to go this way with J.J.

McCarthy. So he's got to wear that one way or the other. But when last year, Sam Darnold averages, you know, eight and a half yards per attempt and is in the MVP conversation through 17 weeks, or at least in the fringe of the MVP conversation, I think we know that a lot of it works. And his offensive line wasn't perfect either. To your point, who was it? Someone just made the point. I lost it. About two and a half seconds. Because I had brought up that two and a half second stat and one of you that I lost the comment, sorry about that, mentioned like KOC's offense is not built for two and a half seconds. You are right. Last year, Sam Darnold was only 21st in throws under two and a half seconds according to PFF. Now, the interesting part of that

was he was top 10 in PFF grade in those throws and he was number two in completion percentage. So when he did throw short, he was succeeding in doing so. And that was actually a Kirk thing, too, that Kirk was in the top 10 in 2022 in terms of snap to release. It's not that you can't do it as part of this offense. I think it's something that with Sam Darnold, he loved to hang in and he loved to let routes develop. And I think McCarthy does the same thing. I think he wants to, he understands the first read is down the field and he's going to look that way. And that is the case a lot with this offense.

So can you still have those elements, but also dialing up. it back and look at some of the stats this year about yards after catch that I showed earlier, they're telling a story that sitting in the pocket and throwing down field is getting harder and harder. And this D-line has been playing really well. It's not going to let you do it. Fandul question the day, just if you're just joining. McCarthy on Fandul, 212 and a half yards is the over under. What do you need to see from McCarthy to feel like it was a good game? It doesn't have to be statistical. That's what most folks have been answering here this evening.

But everything on the table, I'm trying my best to keep up with all your great questions and just want to say that you guys are doing a great job. I'm sorry, I fall behind in the chat because I answer so many of them, but really, really great stuff tonight. BM says, I do feel somewhat bad about Turner criticism unless he becomes an all-pro. He won't live up to the draft position and cost. bummer for him, but it is what it is. Yeah, I agree with you that

drafting, if they draft, let's just say they drafted Dallas Turner who becomes I don't know, the guy who ranks 34th by PFF, let's just say that. 40th, somewhere in that range. It's not enough to justify the draft. It's enough to help you win football games, which I

remember talking about this when he was drafted. Like, we're going to do this thing again, aren't we? We're going to do this thing where forever for this entire guy's life. We just hold it over his head. Here's what you were traded for. And that's a tough place to live for him. Because if he becomes a top 50 player at his position, that can help you win.

For sure, it could be very useful, but it's not worth what they gave up. And that's the unfortunate part because he had nothing to do with that. He didn't trade for himself. At the same time, I want to see him and Van Ginkle out in the field. I want to see the bigger sample of him and Van Ginkle. playing together before we really know, because that's what he was supposed to do this year. And if instead of having to play 60 snaps where he's got to do absolutely everything, he could play 40 snaps that play to his strengths, I think that would be a lot better for

Dallas Turner. It hasn't looked great so far. He's gotten some pressures. He hasn't looked good in coverage. He hasn't looked good against the run setting the edge. But I think that there's, you know, maybe maybe still time there if they can get Van Ginkle back to see the version of Dallas Turner that we thought we were going to see. Jerry says Hutchinson versus Darrasaw, the Battle of the Return. Does Hutchinson line up on that side or is he line up more on the other side? I'll have to look what he's doing these days. Because I think of Hutchinson as being a guy on the, that lines up on the right side.

Let me see. Isn't it great to have all these numbers where we could just say, hey, I wonder about a thing. Oh, my goodness. He is, wow. Aiden Hutchinson this year, 48 pressures, 92.2 PFF grade. My gracious. That is a good football player.

Let's see. Left end, right end. It looks like it's both, but it's a lot more over the left end, which is the right tackle. So Brian O'Neill's health is going to be huge. Well, actually, it looks like it's, wow. This is really based on who he's facing off with.

So if Justin School is playing, then he's going to be over him. all day. But just two games ago, he lined up as the right defense event 40 times and only 18 on the other side. It was about 50-50. Then this last game, it was all on the right side. That's really interesting. Or does he, here would be another idea for, like, does he take on the best tackle so it can be best versus best and the other guys get an advantage? And they can get one-on-one. I don't know. I don't know. That's interesting to think about because if he's on that side. Well, I guess Tristan Worf's moved. Yeah, it looks like it looks like it's probably

matchup based. What an animal. Hey, it's crazy how they hit on that draft pick, right? He was a sixth round pick, Aidan Hutchinson. Is that right? Oh, yeah, they tanked. That's how they got him. Tanking has looked pretty good for the Detroit Lions. That's how they got Aiden Hutchinson, because he's an absolute monster. Bill says injuries to 941, 43, 71, 75, and Kelly, who's number I can't remember either, tell the story of this year's team to date. I heard Pat Kerwin say a backup offensive linemen are garbage for every team. Well, Bill, I totally agree. And that's, you know, when we were talking about that tension and things like that earlier,

in a building in the NFL, they don't walk around and say, hey, guys, just some backups. What can you do? Like, that's not how it works, you know? But if we're doing the entire autopsy of this team, through seven weeks and why they haven't been as good as we expected them to be. The number one reason, number one, is that they've just never been themselves. This could be the closest this week to them being their whole version.

I think it will be, right? Yeah, no, this will be the first time that they have their starting quarterback, their starting wide receivers, potentially if O'Neill plays both starting tackles, and potentially if Van Ginkle plays, then, most of their full defense. This will be the first time that they've even come close to that. The injuries have been absolutely crushing because they haven't just been, they haven't just been like,

me, they've been really, really good players who have been out. James says, Frock A, is that Frock A, what the heck is that? Gives us 25 to 30% chance to make the playoffs.

Whatever, whatever AI you're using there, I don't think is telling the right number, which I guess, guess AI misses a lot on stuff like that, everything, actually. Right now, the odds on Fanduil for the Vikings to make the playoffs is plus 760. So someone can probably translate that to a percentage. Maybe it is 25% at plus 760.

I don't interpret it that way. But if you look at the NFC teams ahead of them, the Falcons have a better chance, the Cowboys, the commanders, and the Panthers are. even at plus 520, and Arizona's right behind them at plus 1,300. It's not just how, what record they have to get to or how many wins. It's also how many teams are ahead of them. And then tiebreakers and things like that, there's a lot of teams ahead of them. If you're 12th and you need to get to seventh, that's a lot of teams that need to mess up

and you need to win a lot of games in order to get there. I would put it in much lower than 25%. I would put it about 5% right now. feel free to prove that wrong. I mean, if they win three games in a row, then we're going to change our tune. But as of right now, pretty, pretty tough to say, yeah, Skull 357s has heard Vegas as 4% to make the playoffs.

Yeah, that's about, that's about right. That's much more close to how I would interpret it. VA Viking says, don't like Jared Goughy. There's a stupid face. Yeah. I don't know. Really? Doesn't he look like that?

actor? I don't know, man. I would be shocked if your face looked nicer than Jared Gough's face. But I get, I get being annoyed with Jared Gough being as good as he is. I'll read the rest of the comment. He's good to go against the blitz. Hope Flores doesn't do the same stuff against him this week. Dude can't run. Play cover. Yeah, but when they play zones and don't blitz, the numbers for Jared Gough are astronomical. I mean, they're really astronomical. versus almost anything, which is why he gets so much for me credit, but especially when he's, when he's clean. When he's not under pressure, he is as good as it gets.

So it really is finding ways to pressure Jared Gough. Let's see. Has it been pressure. I don't think a whole lot this year. Let's take a look. How often has Jared Gough been pressured this year? Might have to search this one. 29th in the league in terms of this is crazy.

This is crazy. This is why they probably do it. Jared Goff has only been pressured 33% of the time, which is 29th, like in a good way, 29th, has a 30 PFF grade, no touchdowns, two interceptions, and only 50% completion percentage when he is under pressure. That is crazy. Now, pressure is a quarterback stat, so him getting rid of the football, that matters. When he is not under pressure, when he is clean, he has a 134.1 quarterback rating, 15 touch,

touchdowns, one pick, 8.6 yards per attempt, there's no player that has a bigger gap. So that's probably why they do it is if you could get pressure on golf and the Vikings did this early in the week 18 game, he will collapse. He will throw inaccurate. He will make mistakes. He's got a couple of interceptions. So I think what is so hard about doing that though is that he identifies the blitzes and he identifies the vacancies in the defense and then just throws it. And so he's not under pressure very often because their line is good, but it's not flawless. And yet he just gets the ball out. Let's see. Freaker by the speaker says KOC has never produced a run game and everyone knows it.

It's very true. They've been losing a lot. That matters. What I, a stat that I found that was interesting is that Jordan Mason is ninth in success rate in rushing this year, 54.7% success rate. So that's pretty good. The opportunity to run just hasn't really been there. I mean, when you're giving up points. So I think they've produced a run game this year that can have success if they're allowed to get to it. But they might need to stick with that regardless with J.J. McCarthy in there, regardless of what the score is. If you're down 14, you have to keep running. And that's something that I don't know we've ever seen KOC do. And you're right. They have not gotten to the point where they have ever proven that someone should be afraid of their run game consistently.

The first eight weeks last year was pretty good, but not consistently. Let's see. Mr. Dizzle says, KOC's a terrible play caller. Let's talk about his third down conversion rate, look up that percentage. Well, are we looking up that percentage for this year or last year? Because this is always my problem when people say, well, he's a terrible play call. and then I wonder, well, what happened last year? Like, did he use the good plays? Let's take a look last year.

They were 12th last year in third down conversion percentage, 40% last year. So that's pretty good. I mean, every time it comes up, it's like, well, with a backup quarterback in there, the play caller looks bad, especially a backup quarterback that needed immediate surgery after the game. so you know that's where that's where it gets tough for me to say that but i you know what i do think though that over this next 10 games we're going to see how his offense fits with j j mccarthy is that fair for all of those who kind of want to say and i always say hey and i'll give you credit for the comment there is what i always say is you got to be specific you got to tell me

what it is that's bothering you about the play calling you can't just yell play calling uh because when we look back at 2023, 2022, 2024, like there's, when Kirk is playing, when Darnold's playing, there's a lot of good play calling all of a sudden. And then when Wence is playing or Dobbs, then it's not good play calling. Well, okay. I mean, that kind of correlates pretty well with did they have a quarterback who was even playable in the NFL, right? So that's kind of, so I credit you for the specific there, but last year they were still good

at converting third downs or at least above average. So I'm not sure that's like the smoking. gun there. But I think that the connection between McCarthy and KOC, can he create an offense that works for McCarthy? Does he feel comfortable with it? Does it look like he can handle it? Does he pair it down to the right things? Does he get him working with play action? Does he have him playing on time? Like, if you can make that progress, I think it will say a lot about the whispering of the quarterback and what that connection can be like into the future. There's no, there's really no such thing as any person who can just go hocus pocus, whatever.

I'm trying to use Halloween things, but that's the only one I got. Wave the magic wand and go, and you are a great quarterback. And I think that people treated it that way with Darnold last year and left out that Darnold had developed a ton from the absolute garbage pile teams he had been with. And so was it KOC? Yes, there was some of that. Was it Jefferson? yes, there was a lot of that.

Was it Addison? Yes, there was a lot of that. And was it Darnold? Yes. That his personal development and his raw talent, which is absolutely out of this world, all of it played into his success last year. And I think, you know, maybe if you were doing the pie chart, well, Darnold is number one for me, by far, for who deserves the most credit.

But I think outside, it was like, oh, KOC did it. He just did it. So now just do it again. and maybe he believed that too. And you should never as a coach believe that it's you. Because it can be you for some ways and you can help a lot. But it's always going to be the player and the players that you can put around that person. So if he can create a cadence within those two or whatever you want to call a connection chemistry,

the quarterback is understanding you and you're understanding them. but that takes a little bit of time and I don't know how if you could do that this weekend against Detroit and just have it click but certainly as you go along that's what we want to see like it's one of those boxes that they really need to check

so let's see Zoomer Kev when are we doing Titans Night with Maggie needs for next year is you're naming everything yeah I know poor Poor Maggie, special contributor. She's on the episode earlier today that I ran with Chris Tripasso looking at the draft.

She grew up in Tennessee. It's been a rough ride for her there recently. Let's see. KFT Vikings might need to draft a couple offensive line next year to create quality depth. It kind of goes back to no one has quality depth. They drafted Juergens. They drafted Rouse. I think Rouse has been okay.

I think there's potential there for him. then they're going to need a center that that is for sure that they don't have their long term center. I think on the roster. I think Juergens could be a backup swing guy, but probably not a starter. So they do have to find that at some point. But let's let's talk about next year when we really have to because we're going to have a lot of time to talk about next year. That's for sure. We will have a lot of time.

I'm guessing in January to break these things down unless they, you know, turn it around. but it's it's just too far behind for me to start having that discussion. KFT says KOC is kind of like Norv Turner, doesn't like to deviate from his norm even when absolutely necessary. Well, so I mean, I think that we saw them do that a bit against Cleveland and we saw him do it a bit against Philadelphia and it worked. But I also feel that way that this offense to work at its max, And look, you could say this about KOC.

I think it's also true in some ways about Sean McVeigh that the reason they moved on from Jared Goff was Sean McVey wanted to have a quarterback who had the armed talent to do all the things that he had dreamed up in his brain. And then they went and found him in Matthew Stafford. But the narrative's different if they found the guy and it works, right? And the same thing goes for Darnold. Like he dreamed up all these amazing routes down the field that defenses can't cover. and then Darnold could throw it.

And that was why last year we talked about the potential of sticking with Darnold because it was like, this is the arm that you're looking for. But I don't want to discount that J.J. McCarthy has the arm to make the throws. I think he has the velocity to make the throws. But arm talent is also about touch, timing. I mean, the smooth delivery that Sam Darnold has, the accuracy that Matthew Stafford has, like those things take a long time to get down. and how far McCarthy can come with that.

That's where adjustments might need to be made. It's kind of interesting you bring that up because there's even a funny Norv, little bit of Norve at the end of his career, where he goes to Carolina. And the first like six or seven games before Cam Newton severely hurts his shoulder and that just takes him kind of out for the rest of his career,

Norv was actually dialing up quick game and it was working. So even if Norv Turner could change, It's like at the end of Rocky 4. If I can change, then COC can change. We'll see. Look, I like a lot of the things they did against Cleveland and Philadelphia. Just schematically, looking at the film, guys were open, underneath stuff was there.

So I think there was some adaptation there. Rob says the interior D-line has created pressure. Redmond with three sacks, Alan Hargrave, two sacks, Ingram Dawkins with one. I think that's twice as much as the D-line had last year. It is, it is, but has it been enough? But I think to your point, like the pass rush win rates aren't terrible. You got to be out there for pass rush,

which means you have to stop the run, which means your offense has to not put you. Like, we've been through this kind of over and over, but they were, you're right that they have had success in doing it and in creating pressure when they've had the opportunities. but it just hasn't had the impact that they hoped it was going to have. Let's see. Stephen says the Chargers game was a must win.

If there was any hope of the postseason, that train left the station real quick on Thursday night football. Now it's hoping McCarthy looks good. Yep, 100%. Yep. I felt the same way. And we spent kind of those couple of days cramming in these conversations and having that talk about, hey, when this game,

get to four and three you're in the race you're in the competition it's not over and at three and four it's it's you're far from the competition now with so many good teams uh skull 357 no reason to let i assume you mean quacy drafted 2026 with a potential top 510 pick has shown zero ability to nail the picks the wilfs know that the wills had to pay a hundred millions of dollars on free agents uh yeah look uh the draft picks that they've had. Now, should they have traded down in 2022? I think the answer is obviously no. But the draft picks that they've had have been off the top of my head somewhere in the ballpark of 32nd, talking about high picks, 32nd, 21st, 23rd. And what was Turner 17th? And

of course, J.J. McCarthy is 10th. That's a quarterback. It's a different story. They haven't had high draft picks. Now, they decided to forego having one. in 2022. That was not my preference at the time, if you recall, because my argument was Hall of Famers get drafted in the top 15. So that's the guys who drive your success and you should probably just stick and pick, but it didn't happen. If you're picking 32nd, 23rd, I mean, the fact that they've even gotten Donovan Jackson, who I think looks good. And Jordan Addison is very good. And at least Dallas Turner is a guy that you can play. Like, okay, I mean, that's about what you can expect. If you don't have high draft picks, it's really hard to find Aiden Hutchinson

because Aidan Hutchinson only goes second overall. He doesn't go 17th or 23rd. Even finding a Darisaw and a Jefferson is pretty shocking. Not having taken those guys high or even a Jordan Addison players that good is pretty surprising. When you look at the history of once you get past the top 15, it is super hit or miss. So having a high draft pick to start with, I don't think that they have enough sample size of draft picks to just say, take the keys away from the guy, don't ever let him get near a draft pick. Also, I just am, this is going to be,

you're going to hear me say it too many times, and I apologize in advance. You can't tell me that Quasi Adafo Mensa just has his computer alone in a closet and makes the draft picks. It is a full team effort. So if you're saying, don't let him do it. Well, then don't let KOC, don't let Brian Flores. don't let the scouting.

You have to blow out everybody. Just don't let anybody near any draft picks on this team because they're all involved in making these picks. But when it's a hit, it's Addison, and then it's KOC did it. But when it's a miss, it's Quasi did it. I already know this. This is how it goes.

But, I mean, you're basically just saying like fire everyone then. If you don't think that this organization can make a top draft pick, you're saying fire everyone. And that, to me, is not where I'm at with this team. I think that they have drafted okay with relative to the high picks that the, in fact, even relative to the overall picks that they've had, it's really only 20, 22 where everything went wrong. But the rest of them just haven't had a lot of picks. This is the year to accumulate as many picks as you can.

And yet, I mean, maybe it's a trade back. I don't know. They need to accumulate draft picks and make picks to have a better chance to hit on them. because if you only have eight top 100 picks in four years, you're not going to do very well. I can guarantee that. There is no team that has taken that few top 100 picks and just nailed all of them. No chance.

So let's see. First name or, yeah, first name, last name says, don't think it's a good play call, bad play call thing with KOC. It's that KOC probably expects too much. and should be trying to simplify things. I do, that's where I'm saying that Philadelphia and Cleveland, I thought that he did that. But you're right.

I mean, if you put, it's a balance. If you don't put anything on JJ McCarthy's play, he's not going to have an offense that he could succeed with because it's not going to be to the standard of the NFL. We've seen college guys come in before, run these half-baked offenses that worked in college, and it just doesn't work. So you need a full NFL playbook to succeed against

NFL defenses, but you also don't have to make it so complex that only Matthew Stafford can run it. At the same time, Sam Darnold was not thought of as to be a quarterback on that level and was able to get it down. So experience does matter though. Experience does matter when it comes to how complex you can make this offense. You have to pare it down. I would also maybe reject the idea that they didn't try in those first two games. We just didn't throw any passes. I mean, talking about making that judgment on 50-something dropbacks over two games, I'm just not really sure. I just think every time something doesn't work, then we always say the play caller is dumb. And if it works, we say, good job player. Or you're a quarterback whisper, I guess.

KFT, Van Ginkle is the engine that makes the defense go, makes a huge difference. Totally agree. Thank you guys, by the way, for all the great answers for the Fanduel question of the day. under on McCarthy 212.5 and what are you looking for in this game from him is C.J. Ham playing. Well, let's see. Let me take a look at what that injury report said. He was not practicing on the injury report today. That doesn't seem good for C.J. Ham. Not practicing today. Two dog dad said, I thought Dallas Turner was supposed to be like a defensive lineman linebacker safety type. I don't think safety was ever in the mix. So far, he's not really excelling in any of those categories. Yeah, I mean, this is the thing. Andrew Van Ginkle is such a unique

guy. There are very few, look, if there were a lot of Andrew Van Ginkles, if a lot of people could do it, then you would just have them everywhere. Players, that dynamic. I don't think he's that guy. I think what he needs to be doing is just rushing the passer every play. He needs to be in more often on pass downs than rundowns, mix and match, maybe at where he's at, but I think he just needs to be rushing off the edge all the time. And trying to make him into Andrew Van Ginkle is either going to take a really long time because Van Ginkle didn't become this version until several years into his career, or it's just not going to work because that might not be who he is.

He might just have to be a situational edge rusher to get the most out of him. that might have to be how it goes for Dallas Turner. But I think making him into Andrew Van Ginkle because of an injury has not really given us as much as we needed to see from Dallas Turner because he's been playing over his head. I mean, even when we look at, we are talking about a guy who is what, is he 23 yet? I don't think he's 23 yet. And we always want everybody to be the full version of themselves. let's see he is still 22 and he's had to play 65 snaps 53 snaps 50 snaps it's just a lot now i think his game against the chargers was atrocious like absolutely awful when it came to tackling run defense

consistent pass rush you got a handful of pressures but i just the the penalty i thought it was it was awful it was probably the worst game we've seen in play previous to that i thought that there was some stuff to really build on in games before that. But it just, it still feels like it's in the phase where we haven't really gotten to see it. And that is a theme with a lot of these guys. Just feels like we haven't gotten to see it. Haven't gotten to see Jonathan Allen chase the passer when there's other guys who have done it a hundred more times than him so far this year.

And instead he's kind of in there just having to stop runs and stuff. So, you know. Okay, this is funny, Jerry. Dobbs had a great game with no playbook, have McCarthy call his own plays in the huddle. Like it's 1960. That would be fun. That would be fun if they did that. I don't think it would work at all.

But, you know, maybe, I don't know, it would be different. Yeah, the Dobbs thing, that was a, we also have to remember in the Josh Dobbs game that he beat Taylor Heineke. It wasn't exactly like he took down Peyton Manning in that game. let's see uh kft says matth you can't agree on the vikings uh drafts they need to hit well when there aren't a lot of draft picks uh it's their own fault you can't give away picks and then say we didn't have a lot of picks uh well so yeah you can uh because giving away the picks doesn't have to be like the greatest idea i'm not saying like oh wow

they nailed it on all the reasons they gave away picks right? It is absolutely an explanation for them why they don't have a lot of hits that they don't have a lot of picks. That's not to say it was all the right idea or that it worked out great or that it was it was right to do. But it's obvious that that's one of the reasons if you have twice as many shots at it and higher draft picks if you're Detroit, you're going to get more hits. I mean, it's just a math issue of there are certain percentages for every hit. How if you have eight picks in the top 100 and none of them, them are in the top 15.

What is your percentage to hit? It's not going to be very high that you just crush it. Now, what you're talking about, I think, is if they should have had a different philosophy from the outset. Now, that I would agree with. But I thought that they did as well as you could do. Now, this is coming off of 14 wins and giving them a lot of benefit of the doubt that they did as well as you can do for a competitive rebuild because that's what the ownership

wanted as we go into a game this is this is the thing right like this should be the uh told you so game for me the team that tanked who just signed their biggest players that they got from tanking penn a soul and aden hutchinson jemir gibbs is crushing it like this is that was my idea in 2022 go to the bottom you know tank get all the draft picks and uh it was quite Casey's idea to trade down and try to get more picks in 2022 and take more shots at it. That didn't work out. And I think that that scared them. I think that that right there was and Quacy could say all day that, hey, I was trying to get, I was trying to fill every need like in my first draft and so forth. When you look back at that draft, it wasn't a great one in any of the

areas that they took players. Yes, Kyle Hamilton. It's a couple other players who have turned out really well, but not that many. And when you get into the second round, it's very, very bare in the second round of that draft. Didn't work out for a lot of teams, but it's so much more crushing when you trade back, you miss on a couple of players that turned out to be really good. And then your guy just doesn't even play at all and is horrendous. Like that, and then has this horrible injury early in his career. Like, it just, you know, there's been a lot of bad luck to go along with these things too. But I think that that's closer to the right idea is to stack picks. I don't ever agree with moving out of the top 15 just because of the history there.

But, you know, trying to stack as many picks as you can is generally the right idea. But the, what they were doing here, filling this roster with free agents, last year they look brilliant and it works. This year, they look stupid when it doesn't. And that's just kind of, that's just kind of football and how it goes. And we can second guess everything. I think the thing, what we try to separate. though when you do the criticism is which one of these things did you see the potential

downside of it from the outset and say we're throwing caution to the wind that's like a jonathan allen signing to me i remember being asked about it at the combine hey do you want him to get jonathan allen i was like oh very hesitant about that based on how he's recently played and then the money that they gave him same sort of deal like well well he's going to have to play really well to justify it and i know he gets pointed at a lot because he's the guy that they spent so much on. That's life. But that's an example of how you could go.

I'm not sure at the time that this is the way to go. The secondary is a great example of all through training camp we're going, Rogers looks pretty good. And maybe Okuda, there's a thing here, but I'm pretty skeptical on that. And then you miss on all of it that you could have seen coming throughout this offseason. You don't bring Shaq Griffin back when he's on a practice squad. And I'm not fully sure I understand that.

You know, like, there's, so, you know, some of the draft things that they've done to trade away so many draft picks, I think you know at the time that, well, if you're going to do that, you better hit on what comes back, the trades, the free agents, and you're unlikely to get a lot of success in the draft. So what they did was they tried to create a two to three year window here with all these players who are in their primes rather than trying to develop people over a long, period of time. They're trying to hit the mark on J.J. McCarthy. Now, here's the thing about the NFL. You can quickly go from holy bleep, you messed up everything. My gosh, what's wrong with you? To, oh, yeah, it all worked. That's like 2016 to 2017. Biggest difference was that nobody got hurt except for the quarterback in 2017. But in 2016, we left saying, wow, they messed up so many different things. They have no line. they, you know, missed on this draft pick and that draft pick.

Laquan Treadwell, McKenzie Alexander, what are they doing? And we were, we were crushing them for that entire offseason. Then the next year, guys stayed healthy. They played well and, you know, all of a sudden it looked good. So I don't think that the book is written on the entire roster build as bad as it looks right now. But that means that there's a ton of pressure for the next off season, assuming that it continues to go this way. We are only seven games in, and this could feel a lot different later on, because we're, we've rightfully decided that the chance of the playoffs is over, but the season is not over. So there is a ways to go for that.

Let's see. So that's, that's kind of how I look at it is, like, there's still a lot of these things to be determined. Steve, it says, TJ's contract will hinder any value coming back to the Vikings. who's going to give up anything for a guy with a bad post-injury stats that has large base salary dollars left on his contract. I, you know, tend to agree that it would be a hard one to trade based on the salary. That would make it difficult. There's not a lot of teams. Who was it?

Maybe Field Yates tweeted out today or someone. What the, who has X number of cap space left? It's not much. so you'd have to shuffle things around and figure it out. And I don't think that there's going to be teams that are lining up. Now, maybe if you're trying to dump the contract and you're taking a fifth round pick for it, that's possible that they could do something like that. So, you know, look, you guys bring up Camp Scataboo in the draft.

Like, a fun running back who's just okay. like I don't know it's not it's not something that I look at and go oh my god how did you not draft that guy I would rather still have a wide receiver that I think has potential because as as as as as as fun as Cam Scadaboo is there's a lot of there's a lot of that there's a lot of that there's a lot of that caliber so I'm I'm just not too concerned about that but as far as the the trading hawkins an idea I think it's just going to be hard to find suitors who want to do it if you can then it would make sense to do so but also I would like to see t J. Hawkinson play with J.J. McCarthy for 10 games. Let's see that and decide where we're at.

Because he hasn't played as well with Darnold as he did with Kirk. We understood why that was this year when they've thrown the ball. He's been fairly effective. Now, is it any more effective than any other tight end? Is it worth the money? No. And they do need the cap space going forward. So if someone's willing to do it, they have to listen to that conversation. But that might have to just be an off-season thing if you I mean you're not getting anything for them at this point other than just cap space so that will be interesting to see if they try to become sellers here if they lose to the Detroit Lions all right uh fun stuff great conversation guys I really appreciate it and in the comments if you guys want to answer that fan dual question of the day about

McCarthy over under 212.5 but what is the thing you want to see from McCarthy against Detroit. Tomorrow, we'll be back with Manny Hill. We're going to pick the Viking schedule, and that could get real interesting from Mani. Also, Nolan Bianchi of the Detroit News. We talk today, and we'll bring you that interview tomorrow. And also keep your eyes out for that breakdown, two of them, one of them with Chris Trappaso draft analyst, where we talked about the draft, and we went into great detail of everything that's happened and what could still happen in the draft for the Vikings.

and then a great analysis from Cody Alexander tomorrow. Make sure you check that out on the YouTube channel. So thanks everybody for the really good discussion here tonight. A lot going on in biking land, but here's what I'll say to close. I totally agree with J.J. McCarthy. This is a reset button. So even though things have gone wrong,

and there's a lot to criticize and a lot to analyze, at very least leading into this game, and I'll be flying out to Detroit on Saturday, a lot of, a lot of different energy if things look good for J.J. McCarthy. So it's become maybe not competitive as we thought it was going to be. But fascinating. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Very fascinating. So we'll catch you all tomorrow. Football.