Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - JJ McCarthy, Michael Penix Jr. and Vikings offseason needs

Episode Date: January 2, 2024

Matthew Coller and Manny Hill talk about JJ McCarthy's performance in a win over Alabama. In the middle of the show Michael Penix Jr. starts going off and they discuss his chances at being a Vikings target, plus go through the other top needs and potential playoff matchups Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here along with Manny Hill. Just moments after Alabama failed to tie in overtime against Michigan, so Michigan moves on to the championship. And oh look, their quarterback is in a bunch of mock drafts connected to the Minnesota Vikings. So, uh, Manny, why don't we start by talking about that game and your impressions of JJ McCarthy after watching him overcome the Michigan special teams in order to win that football game and go to the college national championship. Yeah, it was a, it was a hell of a game uh another classic rose bowl and a great finish uh you know i i was mildly impressed with jj mccarthy tonight um i've been a little down on him not not because i didn't think he was good i just wasn't really sure how good he was because

that team is there's just so much talent on that team there's going to be double digit guys that are going to get drafted um next spring off of that team including jj mccarthy um and they spent so much of the season just dominating everybody just blowing everybody out then they finally played a close game against Ohio State the last week of the season. So it was hard to really kind of get a read on how good J.J. McCarthy actually is because they didn't really ask him to do a lot because they were in control of so many of the games this year. But I was mildly impressed with him. I still have some questions about how good his arm actually is. Can he really make all the throws?

Speaking from a Vikings perspective, can he make all the throws that Kevin O'Connell will want him to make? I know there's been... It seems like he's a really mobile guy that can get out and run, but I'm not sure how much of that

is going to actually translate to the NFL. But he played well tonight. He did get away with a pretty bad mistake, the first play from scrimmage in this game, where he rolled out and looked like he was trying to throw the ball away, and he threw it into the hands of an Alabama defender. The only reason why he got away with it because the Alabama defender was out of bounds. So, you know, I guess you'd take that for what it is. But, um, my, my main question about him was going to be like, all right, when, when the lights are big, when there's a high pressure situation, how, you know, how is he going to handle that? He didn't handle it very well last year against TCU in the college football

playoff. Made some mistakes in that game. Tonight, I thought he did a better job of that, of just keeping his team together, going down on that long drive to tie the game. I don't know how much credit you want to give him for overtime i mean overtime was all blake quorum pretty much uh with those two runs but yeah i i thought he was solid i don't know if it changes my thoughts on rather or not he'd be a fit for the vikings at all i mean i think that's still kind of up in the air to kind of figure out. But, you know, I thought he was solid tonight, and it was a hell of a game.

The other thing is, too, this other biggest pass of the game on fourth and two was also a swing pass to Blake Corum, who was wide open and took it 35 yards from there, and their receiver did forget you can't push someone directly in the back, which is a rule that you learn when you're six. But they made up for it. Roman Wilson, I think, is the guy's receiver's name, who made an unbelievable catch on a tipped ball after that to help Michigan win the game.

I mean, my observation on J.J. McCarthy is, I think from a leadership and operational perspective, leading their offense, his confidence in their offense. They have a lot of motions. They have a lot of changes that are going on at the line of scrimmage that really make that offense tick. And you have to give credit to Harbaugh and his staff for Alabama's head was spinning in a lot of those moments where they're moving guys around, even on that play on fourth down where Corum starts on the left of the quarterback they motion him to the right they don't make the right check on defense he's wide

open and running and that's all of that has to do with McCarthy at the line of scrimmage I think they ask him to do at the line of scrimmage more than your average college quarterback and because some of this could be influenced by Jim Harbaugh's previous experience of the pros and how much we see a lot of this stuff in the NFL all the time. So he's doing that. He was able to get the ball to his playmakers underneath that created big plays. One of their biggest plays of the game, the long touchdown is a pretty routine crossing route where he hits him and he can lead his receivers on those crossing routes the same way that we saw Ohio State pump up a lot of quarterbacks the same way

with it's like these crossing routes college defenses just freak out even on that tipped ball catch it was the same sort of thing where the receivers running wide open because they're crossing each other the one thing I wonder about with McCarthy though, is one, like how much of it is the underneath stuff. And if we're talking about a downfield passing offense for the Vikings, how is that going to fit? Because you just don't see McCarthy push the ball downfield all that often. And a lot of the receivers are running open underneath and then looking for

yards after catch. They lean on their running back a lot more than they lean on their quarterback, which also kind of makes you go like, all right, is that there was some stat and I know a lot of it's because they were winning, but there was some stat that he only had thrown 20 passes in the fourth quarter of games this year or something like that. Like you could tell that they have really leaned heavily on their running back. So if you're going to be Kevin O'Connell's quarterback, it is very clear that it's all on you.

I went through this yesterday for my article at, I don't know, two in the morning or something. I was looking through the play-by-play writing after the game. And there were about five different opportunities where Kevin O'Connell had like a second and medium where he could have run the ball and passed on every single one of them. That's what you're going to be asking somebody to do, and that's not what they asked J.J. McCarthy to do.

I also wonder about a superpower. So you mentioned the running ability. Like Jalen Milrow, the running ability is obscene. They said he hit 20 miles an hour more than anybody else this year. I mean, his passing is is up and down the rest of their team is up and down but you could see like there's there's a playmaking run running quarterback that's what it looks like mccarthy is more of a oh if he scrambles at the right time he's fast enough to get up to a high speed and make a play but is that really like a

dynamic element of his game i don't think that it is. You don't see him dropping back, looking to run. It's more of if he has to scramble, he's quick enough to get some yards there. But I don't see that as like this will be a running quarterback. He's pretty good when scrambling or when on the move, like when he rolls out, he can throw some accurate balls. But I don't feel like he has amazing touch but I don't feel like he has amazing touch. And I don't feel like he has an amazing like rocket howitzer arm. So what's the, what's the superpower when you look at the best quarterbacks in the league, all of them have Joe Burrows got his accuracy and his playmaking Lamar Jackson has gestures at everything. Like, you know,

there's always this one thing, CJ Stroud, the way he throws the football, it is elite. So what is that about JJ McCarthy? That's why if you were making a comp to like Mac Jones, you could probably say that's pretty fair. I would even say someone like Desmond Ritter, who a lot of draft analysts liked, but had the same sort of thing where he was a great leader. He was a plus guy. He ran very fast in the combine, but there wasn't that one thing that made him special. And in the NFL, he's just kind of a guy. So that's still what I sort of see with JJ McCarthy, but there's no doubt that beating Alabama, regardless of how it happens is impressive from the quarterback perspective. Absolutely. And it's just, it's a lot of times it happens, is impressive from the quarterback perspective. Absolutely.

And it's just, it's a lot of times it's how you handle being on the big stage with everybody watching and knowing what's at stake. You know what I mean? All, I mean, everything that Michigan has gone through with all the controversy with Harbaugh being suspended for games and, you know, McCarthy having to kind of navigate through that as a team leader. The talk about how they have performed in college football playoffs in the past, the previous two years, it didn't go well for them.

So that was kind of hanging over his head too. And I think to just have the emotional maturity to be able to handle that, keep the team together, inspire your teammates to go out and make plays as well, I think is a plus trait for him. But yeah, you're right. I think it's just how are some of the things that he can do physically, how are they going to translate to the NFL? And again, from a Vikings perspective, is that going to fit what Kevin O'Connell wants to do with his quarterback and his offense and i'm not sure it is yeah i think you can probably make both arguments because you

could say that o'connell really needs somebody at the line of scrimmage who's masterful at doing all the checks and changes and it's sort of too bad that nick mullins can't throw a football very well because he can do all of that stuff, but just can't deliver the throws where they're supposed to go and how they're supposed to get there. So you could make that argument that look, McCarthy is going to be able to handle so much at the line of scrimmage because he's already done a lot of that in Michigan. I don't think it's a cheap offense. I don't think it's one of these gimmicky, just spread them out and throw a bunch of bubble screens.

I think that he's having to do a lot of work there reading defenses, but there's nothing even close to NFL defenses in college. So how you're able to do that, does it translate? That's a really hard thing to figure out. And the one thing that can balance that is like a rocket arm or great speed or whatever the thing might be that separates that quarterback from the rest. So I don't think that anybody's wherever you stood on JJ McCarthy, your mind wasn't changed here. If you're a little skeptical like I am, then you're not walking out of that going, oh, my gosh, he just put up 400 and it was downfield passes.

No, I mean, it was a lot of underneath stuff that turned into big yards after catch. But if you like him because of the way he operates the team, then you still like him because the way he operates the team. And we're doing this. Kyle Sanahan would like him. I think Kyle Sanahan would like him. That might be, I mean, that might be the comp that you're looking for though.

Right. Is like a Brock Purdy, which is, are we going to, are we going to talk about every guy who doesn't have a huge arm? Are we going to do this? I mean, he's,

he's more physically gifted than Brock Purdy, I think. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. No, he is. He's,

he's, he's bigger. I think he does. I think he has a little bit of a stronger arm he doesn't have a great arm but i think his arm's stronger than brock purdy's is i think for him it's it's just going to come down to like where he ends up you know somebody's going to draft him i don't know if he's going to be i don't think he's going to be a first round pick but like somebody's going to draft jj mccarthy and if it's the right system and it's the right coach, the right offensive mind that can kind of look at what he does really well

and allow that to kind of translate to their offense, then I think he can have some success in the league and be in the league for a while. But it's going to depend on, I think, who ends up with him. I'm already getting texts from Jeremiah Searles and Dane Mizutani about Michael Penix. So the chat is going to have to keep us updated for the beginning of this game. And we're going to go till, as we always do, around nine o'clock.

And of course, then we'll go watch the rest of the game, which is great because it'll be halfway through the first quarter. And it takes forever. They had the end of a basketball game there with three straight timeouts before we finally got the last play. But with Penix, regardless of what happens tonight, Penix is the guy that throughout this time – oh, he's already got a touchdown. That's why.

He is the guy that throughout the season I've watched the most of and I feel like has A-plus and the arm just the arm I mean the anticipation the accuracy and what you really see is talk about a guy who's operating a lot of offense doing doing a lot of the line of scrimmage but it really is standing the shotgun and throwing footballs all over the place is there he's most of their offense and that's why i've kind of stood on on his side a little bit more than mccarthy's throughout this and i'm interested to see how he plays the rest of the night how have you felt i don't know how much of pennix that you've seen but i have felt more and more as this season has gone

along that pennix is the type of quarterback that would really work for what Kevin O'Connell wants because he's very good at hitting the underneath guy who's open. He's very good at not taking sacks, which is a massive deal to me. When college guys take sacks, I am very, very nervous. He barely ever takes sacks. He gets rid of the football, but when he has to throw it, this man can make a very serious throw downfield. So I don't know how much you've seen, but I am still very intrigued by the idea of Michael Penix. Yeah, no, I like Michael Penix too. I watched him, you know, quite a bit when he was at Indiana, you know,

before the ACL injuries and everything that he had. And he was really good and productive there. And that was, at Indiana, that was much more of kind of a gimmicky type of offense that he was running with the Hoosiers a couple of years ago. And then when he transferred to Washington, they were kind of running a little bit, something a little bit closer to what they're doing in the NFL.

But like you said, the arm is just, the arm is ridiculous. He kind of, in a lot of ways, it kind of reminds me of Jeff George, like a left-handed Jeff George a little bit. Because you'd watch Jeff George. How many times have we seen Jeff George just like, just kind of just whip it, you know, off his back foot and just whip it like 50 yards down the field? You know what I mean?

Michael Pettis can do a lot of those same things where you're watching him. He'll take the snap out of the shotgun and he's backing up because there's a rush coming towards him. And then the ball just whips out of his arm and it goes downfield like 40 yards and he completes it for a touchdown. So he's got the arm is is ridiculous. There are concerns about his mobility. I share those concerns too just because of the ACL injuries and everything that's really kind of hampered his ability to move around. He could actually move around pretty good before all of that when he was at Indiana,

but not so much anymore after the injury. So I think that's going to be a question mark for him. But again, if Kevin O'Connell is looking for a guy that can have a rocket arm and really push the ball down the field, and like you said, doesn't take sacks, gets rid of the ball when he needs to, throws with anticipation and timing, then Michael Penix seems like the right fit there. I was thinking last night when uh i was watching jaron hall just about how difficult it is when you don't have that elite trait and that's the thing about jaron hall is that he is a very

mature guy who can throw the football okay and has okay athleticism and got drafted for those reasons. But there's nothing that gives him that answer. And one of the things about Michael Penix that I really like is he's humongous. Like you mentioned Jeff George. Michael Penix, I don't know what his height weight is. He has the biggest hands and the longest arms. Like this dude is pretty damn big. So it kind of reminds me,

somebody said Jared Goff in the comments kind of actually does remind me of Jared Goff where it's, it's this big dude with this big arm who can sling it. And that may be a very good fit for what the Vikings want to do. But also if they lose this next game, Manny against Detroit, which Kevin O'Connell said, he's made the decision about who their quarterback is going to be, but he will against Detroit, which Kevin O'Connell said he's made the decision

about who their quarterback is going to be, but he will tell us, I assume on Wednesday, who that's going to be. Personally, I think it's dangerous to Jaron Hull's health to put him back out there. So you might as well go with Nick Mullins. You've already made Josh Dobbs the third quarterback. How do you go back to him and be like, look, J Dub, uh, actually, can you just like try again? I mean, you just can't do that. It's gotta, it has to be in my mind, Nick Mullins. Um, and after watching hall, like the amount of times he gets sacked, you just can't like you're, you're risking him potentially just getting hurt. So, uh, that's, that's what I think that they will do. Um, but I, I was just, I had this feeling about like the number of receivers who were

open when we looked back at the game, they were there for him to make the plays, but it was a situation where you shouldn't really be trying to lean on him with a lot of, even if it's underneath routes, even if you are looking for yards after catch, they were leaning on him quite a bit, but that's just how it's going routes, even if you are looking for yards after catch, they were leaning on him quite a bit, but that's just how it's going to be, right? And they need somebody who's capable of being that guy. And what is Pennix in college? There's actually maybe like a Phillip Rivers type of comp here with Pennix because it's the same sort of sidearm type of motion.

People are bringing up Bo Nix. I wish I was very upset, Manny, today. Why did they have a AAA team play against Oregon? Oregon was amazing, and they ran out whom? Again, Liberty? I really wanted to watch Bo Nix with a critical eye, the same way we're talking about J.J. McCarthy. And instead, I watched him play a preseason football game against tech. Like, what are we, what are we doing here? I have, I don't, I have liked Bo Nix as well. And I think it's Bo Nix does throw down the field a lot, does have a big arm. He is a legit athlete. He is a giant dude. His receivers are so open though i mean so open all the time that i'm i i find it to be difficult to you know put

a finger on so uh pennix is 6 3 2 50 okay so he's pretty big he's pretty big that's that's like a threshold of like you're a big dude uh but bonix like i i just didn't get a chance to really evaluate him today yeah it's hard when you're going up against uh liberty a team that you know won all their games but was in a group of five conference and not really all that good anyway and uh it's i mean that's kind of the tough thing about about these bowl games and some of the little stipulations that they put in were like the highest ranked group of five team that you know is undefeated or went like 11 and one or something like that gets into one of these new year's six games uh well a lot of times when you do that you get what we saw in the fiesta bowl today so um yeah i mean

bo nicks the physical traits are are there. And I give him a lot of credit because things did not go well for him at Auburn. And he transferred and went to a place where he could have, you know, where he could kind of grow his game, develop and get better with a more with an offense that could be better suited for his skill set. And he answered the call. And he's another one of those like really high character guys his story with his um with his teammate that's like his adopted brother it was a great great story and the bond that they have too was really cool um and he's got the physical traits man he's like he's a good athlete he can now that's a guy that's a guy that can run like as a quarterback, he's a guy that is really mobile, very quick,

and can run and get to where he needs to be. And he can make a lot of really good throws down the field too. To your point, though, he's thrown to a lot of guys that are – defenders are not within five yards of them. And so it's a lot of like the throws look easy, but he is, to his credit, he's throwing them. They're right on the money. He's not throwing behind his receivers.

He's not leading them too far. You know, the guys are wide open, but he's hitting them right in between the numbers. He's throwing it exactly where it needs to be. So it'll be interesting to see where he goes to. I could see a fit here. You know, I could see Kevin O'Connell looking at him and, and, and liking that athletic aspect of his game of moving around a bit

too. But again, it's just, it's the arm talent. That's, that's what Kevin O'Connell is looking for. And if you've got a, if you've got an arm that can push the ball down the field, I think it makes sense from a Vikings perspective. All right. So here's a question. I got sidetracked, but I was going to ask, if the Vikings lose this game, they could pick somewhere around that top 10 range. I don't know exactly because there's a lot to still be decided, but ballpark. If you had the choice, Manny, and we are so far away from drafting people, but I just watched someone who might be drafted. So I'm excited to talk about this. And also, I don't want to discuss yesterday's game anymore ever again. It was miserable.

Great pregame meal. And that's all I can say about it. But if the Vikings are drafting, let's say 12, let's just say. And you have the option between trading multiple first round draft picks to move up to get Jaden Daniels or staying where you are and taking whoever Kevin O'Connell likes the most between Bo Nix, JJ McCarthy, and Michael Pennix, which would you do? Oh, that's a great question. Um, if I can get up into the top five,

depending on how much it would take in terms of draft capital i would do it especially if you can if you got an opportunity where like if the bears if the bears take caleb williams number one overall okay and if you think you can get up to number two which i don't know who's is a Arizona still sitting in the two spot, who's sitting at number two right now? I don't know. Might be the Patriots now. I think the Patriots are at the number two spot now. OK, well, yeah, then it gets a little tricky because they're probably thinking about if if Caleb Williams goes one to the Bears, then Drake May is probably going to go two to the Patriots, I would think. But then, you know, depending on who that number three team is, if you can get up into that spot and then Jaden Daniels is maybe there, I would do that. That's the route I would go. Now, if you don't think you're going to be able to get one of those top three guys,

even if you move up or if you just, it's not feasible to move up because the spot you want to move into is a, you know, with a team that also wants to take a quarterback. Then I I'm leaning Michael Penix at 12 because I think he just it feels like he's he would be the guy of that sort of that next tier after those top three guys. He would be the guy to me that would seem like to be the guy that Kevin O'Connell would want the most to fit into his offense. Folks, I hope you've enjoyed listening to us talk about prize picks this year. But if you've missed it, here's how it works. You go to prizepicks.com and it is simple you pick either more or less between two and six player stat projections and that's it now you're playing so if it's x number of yards for a quarterback you just decide are they going to throw for more or less than that number of yards but it works with lots of different options

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You can turn ten dollars into 250 by nailing just a couple of picks so go to prizepicks.com slash purple the code purple daily fantasy sports made easy this is a very tricky one because i think that jayden daniels is such a dynamic talent that he could be really special he could be and comparing anyone to lamar jackson who's going to win his second mvp is silly but really though i mean the running ability him and anthony richardson so we didn't get to see it that much with richardson but those are the two best running quarterbacks since lamar and daniels was absolutely dominant on the ground but the thing is that daniels is farther ahead by quite a bit as a passer from the other guys who are considered

running quarterbacks he's farther ahead as a passer than lamar he's probably farther ahead as a passer than even jalen hertz was and we saw his massive improvement over a couple of years and how the running impacted. And then we'll see about Anthony Richardson, who already before he got hurt, looked like he was improving as a passer in the NFL. But Daniel's a way better passer in college than Anthony Richardson was. And just as dangerous as a runner. The trouble is that I'm thinking about the whole roster for the future. And I know that you get the advantage of the cap space and everything else, but how many difference makers are on this team is something that I wanted to talk about tonight. We've gotten so into the draft talk that I'm already excited about that, but how many difference makers are

on this team right now who we can surely say will be on the team in 2024 uh justin jefferson he's under contract folks he hasn't demanded a trade so he's on the team christian derisaw is a difference making left tackle had a tough game against the packers but man everybody did garrett bradbury graded a five by the way way, he, uh, Kenny Clark will live in that man's nightmares forever, but who else Jordan, Jordan Addison right now is a, is a nice player. I would not say he's like the game changer. You have him, you are, you are scary to everybody else, right? Like he's, he's good.

He's good. But I wouldn't put him in that same category. And that's all I got because Harrison Smith could retire or is not the same version of the guy. He was Daniel Hunter might not be here. Ivan Pace jr. A nice player who can make a difference, but not that guy. So you got two. And if you're trading multiple firsts to go up and get Jayden daniels and then you got to get other play you know other like the difference makers that you want to use your first round picks on and the one from 2022 is not the difference maker uh and neither is the second pick in 2022 either

that that's where it's a little bit hard for me i do think that there's a big gap between the prospect talent that Daniels is a much better prospect than the other guys, because they all have their reasons to be concerned. Like Bo Nix's history before this year was pretty meh. And Penix is older. He's had some injuries and you know, and you could go down the list. We talked about McCarthy at the beginning of the show. I think that I would, even though it's not historically always the greatest idea to trade up. I mean, the bears did it for fields. The results have been pretty mixed. The chiefs did it for my homes though. And that worked out pretty well. Philadelphia did it for Carson Wentz because their roster was right there, very close to being a Superbowl roster. But I think the Vikings is farther away.

So that, that would be a very, very, very, very tricky decision if that's what they have. But I also reject the idea that Jaden Daniels can't play for Kevin O'Connell. I think the way he throws the football and then you add the running element, which O'Connell did not build anything offensively for a running quarterback because his quarterback was kirk cousins so he would do that he would he'd google that how do i deal with a running quarterback he would figure that out i promise uh what do you think mandy that the chicago bears do with justin fields well i think what i think what I think they should do

and what I think they will do might be two different things. Personally, I think they need to move on because I don't think that he has shown enough to indicate that he is going to be able to be a guy that they can have long-term and get them in a position where they're contending for Super Bowls. I just don't see it. I think there is talent there and I think he has known some improvement, but I don't think we've seen enough improvement from him to think

like, yep, this is the guy we're going to pay him, you know, and I got to make a decision on, on, on paying him, you him, giving him a big contract. And you don't want to have a Daniel Jones with the Giants type of situation with Justin Fields because then you're kind of stuck. But I'm starting to wonder if they're going to consider just keeping him around and maybe getting that number one pick from Carolina and trading down a couple spots to get more picks much like what they did last year um I'm starting to wonder if they're going to do that because they have seen some improvement from Justin Fields and are they going to have it in their head like all right he's getting better now if we just if we get him this and we get him this player and we get this guy on defense

and get these guys, then Justin will be all right. He'll be fine. I think it's a dangerous gamble to make. I'm kind of thinking that that's the route that they may end up going, though. But I think that they should take that number one pick from the panthers and just take the next quarterback and move on and if you flip justin fields for like a third or fourth round pick then so be it so from following people uh who talk about the chicago bears you would think that justin fields was in the mvp race but when you look at the totality of what he's done this year,

now his running cannot be ignored. It is truly elite, literally all time. Great running. When you look at what he did last year. Uh, so you can't just say, Oh, well, he kind of runs like that's a, that's a big deal. And that got ignored sometimes weirdly. When you looked at the stats of someone like Cam Newton, he'd throw for 3,400 yards, and then he'd run for 712 touchdowns and be like, well, look at his quarterback rating. So I don't want to talk out of both sides of my mouth because I always thought that Cam Newton was a winning player in a major, major part

because of his running ability. So let's not downplay that. But Justin Fields is the 21st overall graded quarterback this year by pff he has 2400 yards under seven yards per pass attempt an 85 quarterback rating like all of that is very mediocre quarterback play from a passing perspective his running is so good that you can make it up but if i try to make the other side of the argument if you look at the as the as the team continued to improve around him because they're going to make this argument in green bay about jordan love as well that the more he got on the

same page with dj moore and the more that they trusted each other dj moore emerged as an elite wide receiver and if you pair him with Marvin Harrison Jr., you might have like Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne type of situation here, or what they had with Atlanta, like a Roddy White, Julio Jones type of deal. And if you can pair receivers together, you can improve your quarterback's play by quite a bit. And think about it this way. If Justin Fields were to have Marvin Harrison juniors, the top draft pick, and then struggle again next year, you just draft somebody else or look for another quarterback to put in with these two elite wide receivers and try to go forward that way. That's the argument against it. I mean, it's, it's tough. Like Caleb Williams has

more holes in his game than people thought was going to be the case. And that also is what gives me pause as well, because there's a part of me that wants to see, all right, what's it going to look like when fields plays a full season with this defense playing like it has their offensive line playing like it has. And two of the best wide receivers on earth, that might be pretty good. If he's even 5% better as a passer and the running game, then they're going to be a really good team. They have seven wins. Like they're going to be a really good team. So I think it's, it's, it is a seminal moment for this franchise, but at the same time, what is dominating? What is dominating is rosters and the NFC is not just quarterbacks it's rosters and if you draft

imagine if they trade out of one to like three or four still draft Marvin Harrison Jr and then pick like ninth oh my God like they're just getting so much talent and so or are they traded for another player like Ryan poles is clearly love trading for players So I think that it's not a bad idea if they actually stay with Justin Fields. And if he can't get them over the hump, they look elsewhere after that because their roster is just going to be so incredible at that point. It's tough, though. Yeah, it is very tough. And I think it's just going to it's kind of like I don't know if there is a perfect answer for them. It's almost like you just say, Ryan Poles, make whatever decision you make, and it just has to be the right one.

It just has to work out. Like, you can't, you know, because there is sort of that, if you stand pat with the number one pick and you take Caleb Williams, and things don't work out for him either because of some of the weaknesses that he's kind of shown this year. Those things get exposed, and he can't really translate it to the NFL the way everybody thought it would. Now you're really in a tough spot because then what do you do? You've just kicked away another top draft pick that is not working out for you. And when you when you swing and miss on a quarterback, it just it can really, really set your team back and put your team in a situation where you're now you're making moves to try and cover that up and make that up, which is kind of why the Bears are in the spot that they're in right now, because there's question marks about Justin Fields.

If they had hit on Justin Fields, like if we just knew for sure, like this guy is awesome, he's going to be great, he's fantastic. Then the Bears are in a really good spot because now that decision is pretty easy, you know, but it's it's a tough spot. I'm fascinated to see what they do. If they get Marvin Harrison and it works out, and then whatever that other top 10 pick is going to be, it could be somebody on defense to help.

They made a nice trade for Montez Sweat, and we saw what he was able to do in that defense firsthand when they came to US Bank Stadium. I will say this. The bears are in a great spot they're in a great situation to where there's a lot of options and you know whatever they decide to do it just has to be the right one and if it is the right one look out it's the bears so they always make the wrong one like that's who they are so right now

let me give you the order and this is right now this can change, but I don't know how much it can change. So right now it's Chicago with the number one pick then Washington at two great tank by Washington, by the way, they were bought by the guy who owns the 76ers. And then they tanked. Well done. Well done. That team's going to go someplace if they, well, I mean, they're in a spot where they could draft Drake May or Caleb Williams. That would be really good for them because since Kirk left, they have had nothing at quarterback, but they also passed up on Tua and Herbert to take an edge rusher. So I don't think they're going to make that mistake this time. So then you have New England after that, and New England has to draft quarterback as well. So if it goes Harrison and then Caleb Williams, Drake May, then you've got Arizona, the Giants, the Chargers. The Giants, I think, are in a spot where they would draft

Jaden Daniels at number five, or at least they should. I mean, one of the biggest mistakes you could have made was paying Daniel Jones. So they've got to bail on that. But also you could allow Daniels to sit for a year and rebuild that around Daniel Jones and build up the roster a little bit and give Daniels a year to progress, like with Patrick Mahomes or with Jordan Love for multiple years. But I still love that model, though.

Like, I still think that's really smart when teams can do it they just can't do it very often the giants would be the team that would be able to do that arizona is a wild card here like do they want a quarterback to trade kyler or do they want to stick with kyler and try to build that up in the same way that the lions did with jared goff and build around a good but not truly legendary type of quarterback. I mean, already there is just so much drama with this, but how, if you're the Vikings, my question is they're 12th right now, the Vikings, and there's four teams that are seven and nine. Wow. Even if you're able to get toward the top of that, like ninth, how do you end up getting someone to trade you any of these positions to get the quarterback

when all these teams need them at the top so that's why i think it's very very difficult to see them being able to take someone in that top three but if you're if you're chicago that it's like man you're you're good if you no matter what you do but you're also going to be second guest if it goes wrong if you stick with fields and he comes out next year, the same way he did this year, fumbled around and you win seven games next year, everyone's going to go, Oh my gosh, you passed up on that other quarterback. Or you could look like a genius because Marvin Harrison jr. Is unbelievable. And they win, you know, 14 games or something something the thing is they were able to get to seven after that horrific start and how bad they played and at like rebuilding that team that it's it's been a very

impressive very very impressive second half of the season for the bears the other thing i want to talk with you about manny is the vikings needs outside of the quarterback position because if you think that this is a lot of quarterback talk oh buddy we, we're going to have a lot of time to talk about it. And whether we're talking about it through April or just March is the big question. But what would you say if I were to ask you three biggest things the Vikings need that are not a quarterback and how they can get them. What do you got? What's your list? Well, one for sure, I think interior defensive front, I think, is one. And it's not that that unit is necessarily bad because they've, for the most part, been really good against the run this year. But I think they need more of like an impact pass rusher to come from the

interior to get a little bit more of a push to get in the face of quarterbacks, you know, in situations where, okay, if let's say Daniil Hunter is brought back for next year, you know, if, you know, Hunter is, is having a tough time getting a pass rush, you know what I mean? Can somebody else kind of pick up the slack and somebody on that interior front kind of pick up the slack and get some pressure up the middle? So that's one, that's where I would like to see some improvement there on the defensive side. Probably number three wide receiver is probably one that i think you might have to look at you know i know t.j hawkinson is kind of i guess kind of the de facto number

three guy number two guy in that in that passing attack but like a true number three wide out because it looks like k.j osborne is not going to be back. You know, Brandon Powell showed some signs, I think, of, you know, being a guy that you could rely on. But, like, is he going to be back? You know, how much improvement will we see from him as well? So that might be a situation where they might want to look at that. I'm trying to think of, you know, I guess you can never have too many corners. You know what I mean?

I know they've got some young guys that have shown some signs. But, you know, if you can get, you know, another guy in here just to kind of add some depth to the cornerback position, I think that would be helpful too. Yeah. think that'll be helpful too yeah uh for for me the interior defensive line with the pass rush is a great point because i don't remember the last time that it was good i mean it must have been 2018 with sheldon richardson is the last time it was difference making they brought back richardson in 21 but he was not the same and um i like there was a lot of shamar stefan a lot of shamar stefan it's just like shamar stefan is just like jonathan bullard

where i like the guy i think he's very useful but there's been a lot of jonathan bullard and that's probably too much when you're talking about pass rushing situations. You can't always just blitz. You can't always just move Daniel Hunter around, which I've liked that Flores is doing that. He had a great pass rush on Jordan Love on one play over the center. But you're going to have to find someone who can get consistently to the quarterback, even if it's just a rotational player. They didn't have a rotational player who could do that. And, and from the inside, that is a big deal to me, even just to find one of

those dudes who's played for like five teams, but gets, you know, enough pressures per year and a handful of sacks and so forth. They don't even have that guy. But the biggest thing is what's happening at edge rusher. If the Neil Hunter is staying, it's going to be expensive. This man has 15 and a half sacks. He has led last check 74 pressures, which is up toward the top of the NFL. And I was trying to investigate the prices of edge rushers.

And there's like, it kind of splits into two different types. The mega rusher, the TJ watt, the Nick Bosa, these guys, there is no chance you could pay him and pay Jefferson and pay Christian Darasaw and build a complete roster. I just don't know how you're going to do it. And that might just be too much and too risky for a guy that still does have the injury history. There's like this other level though, of Hassan Reddick, Shaq Barrett, guys who have had big sack seasons that were a little bit

later in their twenties that got more reasonable contracts. And if Daniil Hunter is willing to go for that, which is more in the 20 something range, more of like the 30 something guaranteed range. I think the Vikings can do that, but they can't do the elite, elite, elite type of pass rusher. And I think if you're another team that feels like you're a pass rusher away, how are you not offering Daniel Hunter that? And they cannot franchise tag him, which is very important that they put in his contract. No, no, no, no, no franchise tagging me, buddy. So they've got to make that decision. Also, it might be his decision. If somebody didn't buy into you for like four straight years to sign you to the big deal, are you going to give them

first priority? Now, maybe Daniil just likes it here. I'm kind of feeling like he's going to go somewhere else, which means two edge rushers are very much needed. And when you bring up corner, that was really revealed. I like a lot about McKay Blackman. We saw the weaknesses of a Caleb Evans really play out over the last few weeks. He got absolutely cooked against the Packers. He missed tackles. Like he had a really tough ending to the season and Byron Murphy Jr.

Is a good, a good player, but I want them as more of a nickel. And then I do this, Hey, you go guard the other team's best wide receiver. You'd rather have some of these guys rotating in than being like the guy. So you kind of need that as well. And then, uh, the wide receiver, you mentioned that third wide receiver spot, I think is very valuable. And we don't know how long TJ Hawkinson is going to be out because it wasn't just an ACL. It was an MCL as well. That could take him into the middle of next season, possibly. And look, Johnny months, a fine NFL player belongs in the league, but it's not TJ Hawkinson when it comes to making difficult catches that are way behind him or whatever. That wasn't Johnny Mott's fault. He didn't deserve that, but he's not a difference maker. Josh Oliver's not a difference maker. So you're going to need somebody else to kind of bridge that gap until TJ Hawkinson is back to 100% for next season. It's not actually that easy to find your number three wide receiver in free agency because teams keep good wide receivers for one. They know how valuable they are, but guys who are like KJ Osborne, I don't think Osborne is going to get a huge deal,

but guys who are like him, they usually get a decent amount of money. Like Jacoby Myers got a decent amount of money. Adam Jacoby Myers got a decent amount of money. Adam Thielen, who is really a number three at this point in his career, he tracked down a decent amount of money. It's not, it's you're probably spending like 10 million and then you have to decide what you're doing at guard. Are you bringing back Dalton Reisner as well? And I think what this all ties into, I asked you for three and I've named like most of the roster. What it really ties back into Manny is when we talk about Kirk cousins coming back, some people are very sure Kirk cousins is coming back. I have a very difficult time making that work with all

the things that you and I just named. Absolutely. Well, I mean, you know, where I stand and this is not a shot at Kirk. I'm not trying to say he's bad or anything like that. Well, first of all, there's just kind of this unknown of what he's going to look like when he comes back from this Achilles injury. And he's going to be a year older. He's going to be 36. And I just think that with where this roster is at,

with where this team is at going forward, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to bring Kirk Cousins back unless he's going to come back on a massive, massive discount. And we have never known Kirk Cousins to give anybody a massive, massive discount. Even when they've restructured, it's been to free up a few million dollars here and there to free up cap space, but his cap number has always been large for as long as he's been to free up a few million dollars here and there to free up cap space but his cap number has always been large for as long as he's been here so even if he's gonna say i'll come back for

28 to 30 billion instead of like 40 like what daniel jones is getting like that's still a pretty hefty number you know considering all the other needs that the roster that you're going to have with the roster and having to pay your, your, your superstar wide receiver and your, your star left tackle as well. And, you know, and if you're, if, if Daniel Hunter does want to come back, like you want to bring them back, if it's a, if it's a decent number and he wants to be here, you want to bring them back. So there's just too many other needs and financial commitments that are going to need to be made to, I think, bring back Kirk Cousins at the price that we think that he's probably going to get. It just doesn't make a lot of – financially, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to, you know, with where this roster is at. So just pulling this up right now, and I haven't really done this because we've been

like horse blinders into the playoff race and the season and so forth. So I haven't really gone and looked like, okay, what, you know, is the price and so forth for Kirk cousins. And I just counted them real quickly. So if I made a mistake off one, I'm sorry. But I believe there are now 13 quarterbacks in the league who are making $40 million plus. And some of those include Daniel Jones, Deshaun Watson, the worst contract of all time, but Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray. Now, these are guys that I think we might say Kirk Cousins is at least comparable or better than for some of them. Daniel Jones, for sure. Maybe it depends on your feeling on Kyler Murray. I think we all know that the ceiling is higher for Kyler Murray than Kirk Cousins. But as far as consistent season after season, that has not been the case with Kyler Murray. He's

kind of had his moments. He's not in the same range as a Mahomes or a Josh Allen. He may consider himself in the same range as a Stafford or Dak Prescott. Again, in my opinion, those guys are a shade ahead. Stafford, the way he's playing this year is probably two shades ahead. Well, I guess the same with Prescott. Both of them are sort of playing at really high levels, but still based on their histories, there's a lot of numbers and a lot of really good play. But if you compare their numbers to Kirk, just traditional stats, you're going to find a lot of similarities. So how is he going to walk into a negotiation? He's also been Derek Carr for a long time was the comp. He's also been quite a bit better than Derek Carr over the last couple of seasons, he's going to have to argue, I'm better than Derek Carr, who's making 37. So I'm better than Daniel Jones. I'm better than

Derek Carr. I'm in the same range as Stafford and as Dak Prescott. And the thing is that Matthew Stafford's deal is one the Vikings could do with Kirk. If you look at it, the structure is really interesting. All they did was push everything into the future. They took all of his money. It's actually crazy. I'll pull it up and I'll read it to you because it's nuts what they did with Matthew Stafford. And this is what happens when your quarterback wins the Superbowl. You just go crazy. So he only has a $13 million dead cap for last year, only 13 million for last year and only 20 for this year. Now, if Kirk Cousins had cap hits of 13 and 20, then you'd feel like you're in great shape. The problem is

next year, Matthew Stafford's cap hit is 49 million and then it is 50 and then 49. And if you cut him next year, it's an $86 million dead cap hit the year after that $37 million dead cap hit. So if you are willing to push all the money down the road into the future and either add crazy void years or take like the risk of have like if he gets hurt again or something, just having like no option other than his huge cap hit, you could do it. But to me, Manny, you only do that if you're in a Super Bowl window. And I think what we really saw in the last few games is that this team is not in a Super Bowl window yet. No, they're not. And, you know, you have to be smart with this stuff.

You can't just say, well, look at how Kirk was playing before he got hurt and look at how bad these backups have been. If Kirk were playing, this team would be this. I mean, you bring Kirk Cousins back, it's not going to, you know, all of the other issues that this team needs that we just talked about a few minutes ago. Kirk Cousins isn't going to fix those things. And with him being 36 and coming off a major injury,

is he going to be able to cover up those weaknesses, you know, the way we've seen other great quarterbacks do? We saw Aaron Rodgers cover up weaknesses in the Packers roster for many, many years. Patrick Mahomes has done that. Now we're seeing this year, there's just, you know, particularly on offense, there's just way too many weaknesses in the Chiefs offense for even Mahomes to overcome, as we've seen their struggles this year. So you have to ask yourself, like, is this a roster that can go on a deep run if you bring Kirk Cousins back? If it is, then by all means, bring him back. You know, I mean, I'm all for that, but I just see too many holes on this roster to to, you know, have that be have that be an option. And we have to remember. You know, this team started out 0-3 and 1-4 with Kirk Cousins playing at quarterback. Like, I know he was playing really well before he got

hurt and they were on their way to being, you know, winning that game against Green Bay and improving their record to 5-4 and who knows where they'd be at if Kirk were still healthy. But that was still the team that had a bad start to the season, and that was on his watch. So it kind of shows that this roster, there are good pieces here, and I think they're headed in the right direction. I think they've got the right people running the show, but we need more. The roster still needs work, and you're not going to be able to fix that by just bringing kirk cousins back on a even on a on a cheaper deal there's still other moves that need to be made uh michael pennix by the way five for seven for 138 yards so far so he's off to a pretty

good start and uh washington leads texas by 14 to 7 which uh will wrap up shortly because both of us really want to watch although this hour has just flown by like we get into the quarterback thing I mean we just start just start rolling but when you really lay it out when you really just write out the roster put it out on paper you encircle the things that you need it's just hard to get around to they're right there. And that might be the lasting legacy of the Packer blowout of new year's Eve is it was on display just how many things you really need, because if you lose one or two defensive players, you shouldn't go from a really great defense to a horrific defense that easily could have given

a 50. I, if Jordan love doesn't miss a couple open passes early in the game, I mean, that thing could have been 28, nothing at half or by the end of the first quarter, it could have been, they were, they were not stopped at all. And look that, you know, it's Brian Flores did a great job this year. I will not come off that. They'll probably finish in the top 15, which is better than I think I would have expected. And maybe the best case scenario for what they have as a roster, but that's the point, right? Like if your only answer is we have to have our defensive coordinator do everything under the sun and oh, by the way, he's got to do it against a run of quarterbacks that weren't all that good. And it's not that it doesn't count to shut out Aiden O'Connell,

but it certainly helps that it's Aiden O'Connell, right? And when it's a Jordan Love offense that's been cooking, then all of a sudden you look different. And when you look at the defense, every time they played a good team and a good offense, they had problems. And the Packers, you know, sort of the exception, but they looked way, way better this time than they did last time.

And that, to me, should be the difference maker, along with the quarterback class that I think has enough prospects to pick your choice. If you got from three different guys that you like who could be there, if it's Knicks, Pennix, and McCarthy, does any one of them float your boat as a guy who could step into that role? So we are set up for a lot of very interesting discussions as we go forward.

I was just going to ask, Manny, and I know that we got so far deep into this, but I just want to end with a little brief discussion. And I want to pull this up here. ESPN's playoff machine. Hold on. I want to pull up our playoff machine so we can take a look at what these playoff matchups look like. And so right now, let's run through.

I'm just going to run through to end the show here. Who you think will win if the playoffs end up this way, which who knows how they will. But if they end up this way, which who knows how they will, but if they end up this way, how it's going to go, I want you to pick it. So right now, Philadelphia would play Tampa Bay as the five versus the four. Let's, let's just start with there. I'll just start from kind of the bottom and work our way up or no, I'm sorry. let's start on the other side of the bracket um the seven versus the two green bay versus dallas in the seven versus the two a game that i really wish john madden and pat summerall were calling acheman versus farve romo versus aaron rogers at dallas who do you

think would win that game if that happens? I think the Cowboys would win. The Cowboys have been kind of up and down, but I think they're the better team, and the Packers have looked a little bit better of late. But I think Dallas wins that game. Dallas is a different team at home this year. They've been fantastic at home, and I think they'd get it done. I do have McCarthy concerns.

I do. I do. I do. That there's going to be just like run the ball three times and we never have that debacle. And we're not talking the way we are about the Lions as if they won that game. All right. The Lions would play the Rams. That's a that's that's fine. Me.

The league is rigged. Sign me. The league is rigged. They rigged this up. That's why the refs did it. That's why rigged. Sign me up. Danny, the league is rigged. They rigged this up. That's why the refs did it. That's why they screwed with the eligible receiver. That is the number one. I was thinking about that when you texted me earlier today. I was thinking about, like, number one playoff matchup I would want to see

for wildcard weekend, and it's that one. It's the Rams and Lions. It's a great matchup. I think we'd see a lot of fireworks between both offenses because both offenses are really good both quarterbacks are really good there's just there's so much the storylines the history matthew stafford going back to detroit for a playoff game i mean like come on like the lions first home playoff game in forever and matthew staff still is going to play in it.

Like how great is that? You know, the, the, you know, Jared golf, we're going up against Sean McVay, like all of that stuff.

If that's the matchup, sign me up. I'd be all for that. Never stop scripting the NFL. Roger Goodell. Never stop. That's a great one. I would,

I'd pick the Rams. I just think that they're playing great football, and the Lions' defense scares me. It's just, unless people are throwing the ball directly to them, like Nick Mullins, it's not a good defense. How about the other side? Jags and Browns. Joe Flacco versus Trevor Lawrence, who's barely alive still after the season, the way he's been beat up.

Yeah, I would take the Browns in that one. I know Jacksonville would be at home, but the Browns just, Joe Flacco's playing well enough, and that roster, that Browns roster is loaded, man. They've got receivers. They've got an offensive line. They can run the ball. Their defense is amazing.

You know, and Joe Flacco's doing just enough to just have them win games and so I would take and Jacksonville just hasn't you know rather Trevor Lawrence being banged up and just they just have not looked good in like a month and a half and so I think the Browns have a lot more momentum and I think they'd go into Jacksonville and win Jacksonville just did not quite take the step that we thought they were going to. Offensive line is a problem. Defense is still problematic. And Trevor Lawrence takes way too many hits.

And so maybe that's kind of a next year type of thing. Now, Miami would play Indianapolis, which I think we would both easily pick Miami for that one. And that doesn't have a lot of juice to it because it's Gardner Minshew. And we'll see if somebody else gets in, because if the Texans win, they get in, then all of a sudden that game could be very, very interesting.

And I might pick the Texans to upset Miami because Miami is just, I think, look, I think two was a great quarterback and, but they are a little frail on the defensive side and they're a little frail when anything goes wrong like if everything that their coach is and they lost bradley chubb bradley chubb is out for the year that's a huge blow to that defense and jaylen phillips is out for the year so you're missing your two edge rushers i think xavian howard's hurt i mean

they just they're in they're in tough shape and whenever that something from their coach is not quite working it's not like they have some other answer on that team so I would probably pick the Houston Texans with CJ Stroud and then how about this if this if it went down like it it's set up right now Buffalo Casey Hello, Casey. I mean, come on. Come on. Jim Kelly. Joe Montana. Arrowhead Stadium. Let's go. Holmes and Allen, man. Sign me up. It would be – those two teams have kind of become like the modern –

well, I guess modern like 49ers Packers. Remember back in the 90s, the 49ers and Packers played each other every year in the playoffs. I mean, they've played 12 or 13 times in the postseason overall, but back in the 90s when it was Brett Favre and Steve Young, it was just great. And I think with Buffalo and Kansas City, we're seeing a lot of the same type of thing with Allen and Mahomes,

just that rivalry of two of the great young quarterbacks in the league and two of the teams that have been the most contending teams out of the AFC the last few years as well. So Super Bowl pick is right now very obvious, I think, in both conferences. There is a clear-cut best team, Ravens, 49ers. They're going to be the one seeds.

And if you're picking low key though, I might go. If it's, if it's like a total surprise, total upset would be Buffalo and Los Angeles because both of them have great quarterbacks. Both teams stumbled in the middle of the season, but are actually really strong football teams.

That would be like, how about, how about for you? Like if it was one of those, we go, Oh, who saw this coming? be like, how about, how about for you? Like if it was one of those, we go, Oh, who saw this coming? This is crazy. Who would it be for you? Dude, Joe Flacco and the Browns. Dude, that, listen, I I'm,

I'm flabbergasted by what Joe Flacco is doing, but at the same time you think about it, that roster, that's a really good roster, what the Browns have, especially on defense. And, you know, if you have a really good defense and it travels well, you know, if they can get a matchup with Baltimore, I know Baltimore is so good with Lamar and that defense too,

but it's two division rivals that know each other really well. There's so much history there with the Browns and Ravens, and the Browns just put together one day of really good football. Who knows what could happen? Yeah, I think the Browns are going to be a team to watch. How much gas in the tank does Flacco have? I think it will depend on that. But, yeah, and I, Buffalo and the Rams too.

It's two teams with great quarterbacks and both really, really good head coaches too. This is going to be, this is going to be a lot of fun. I like Baltimore and San Francisco too to come out of both conferences, but I think this, we're going to see a lot of really fun games this postseason. It's going to be a lot of fun. Okay. We've got to, we've got to get to this of really fun games this postseason. It's going to be a lot of fun. Okay, we've got to get to this game. But just two quick things that people asked about that I want to – oh, my gosh, Penix is making more throws.

He's making the case. He's making the case. I'm just seeing it in the chat, and I'm also getting text messages because everybody knows by now that Penix is my guy. So I'm getting all these texts like pennix has a cannon pet oh my god dane mizzitani just texted me so uh yeah it's going pretty well for him uh just uh russell wilson as an option for the vikings i'm i'm not really into that manny are you into that no i don't like that i don't think it's a fit i don't I don't like that. I don't think it's a fit. I don't. I don't. Russ played better this year, but I just don't.

I just don't think, you know, philosophically with what Kevin O'Connell likes to do, I don't know if Russ is really a fit at this stage of his career. Six for eight, 190 yards for Pennix. Six passes, 190 yards. That's what I'm talking about uh and the other one was um len asked and i lost it in the chat but asked if um about the owners not going to the locker room which uh our guy alec lewis mentioned in his article here's what i know about the wilfs they it's sort of like Minnesota-Wisconsin, how if you get the axe, you feel a lot better about the year.

If you beat the pack, the Wilfs feel a lot better. Games against the Packers usually mean action from the Wilfs. Think about the two times. In 2020, they beat the Packers. They don't trade anybody. Same thing happened this year. And then in 2019, they lose to the Packers. They don't trade anybody. Same thing happened this year. And then in 2019, they lose to the Packers and the Wilfs nearly traded Mike Zimmer to the Cowboys. And I still believe that was actually going to happen if the Vikings had lost against the New

Orleans Saints. They fired Brad Childress after getting blown out at home by the Packers in 2010. Exactly. The Packers mean something very different to the Wilfs and also yesterday the uh executives from the Packers and I I don't know that I've seen this happen they sat close to me in the press box and celebrated like crazy with every big play which usually you don't see that much in the press box. Maybe they're in a different place in the stadium or they kind of like keep it to themselves. Like Rick Spielman would sit behind me in Chicago and Kwesi sits pretty close to me in Chicago too. You, you, you don't hear anything like they'll sometimes get up in pace, but usually like maybe some like, like if there's a bad play or something, but usually they kind of keep it.

It had to burn them that those guys were like high fiving after touchdowns and stuff. It had, they had to be very upset that that was happening. So anyway, can, can Michael Penick stay healthy in the NFL? I have no idea. Most quarterbacks seem to get hurt, but I'm just, I'm just picking, I'm picking the cannon. Give me the cannon. Let's see what we can do with it. So anyway, well, this has been super fun and fun And sorry Manny to keep you from the game

Even longer here We gotta go watch some Michael Penix here Because he is going absolutely off So thank you everybody for watching Huge crowd tonight, appreciate all of you Make sure you subscribe to every single thing we do And buy my book, there you go And we'll be back on Thursday night live

But the channel every night has episodes. So we'll have Jeremiah Searles tomorrow night. Look out for an episode with Brian Murphy. Lots of discussion about this very now fascinating offseason football team as we go. So thanks Manny and thanks everybody for watching

slash listening. We'll catch you next time. Go balls.