Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - JJ McCarthy practices, what can he gain from playing???? (Part 3)

Episode Date: January 1, 2026

Matthew Coller talks about McCarthy returning to practice and the chance he can play against the Packers. They won't play starters so what can JJ gain from playing? The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This episode of Purple Insider is presented by Fandul. Christopher Fall Guys, Quasey, quarterbacks coach. That one's tough from McCown. O-line coach, maybe West Phillips, special teams, getting rid of the space. Any idea of getting rid of Matt Daniels is assinine. I mean, that to me is just like, you'd be insane. If they do that, I'm going to wonder what the hell are they thinking. they have the best kicker in the entire league.

They have one of the best punters in the league. They have developed a young kick returner who I think has a lot of talent, has made some mistakes. And they've made some mistakes. And you're going to lead, you're going to have more penalties when you return every single kick. That's how it works. But they've had some huge game-changing plays.

They've been one of the best at punt coverage. He develops younger players that they give him. I mean, he's had to work with a ton of undrafts, free agents. To me, that would be nuts. I don't, I don't, I mean, he's got a, here's an undrafted free agent kick returner. Like, go to work. Here's four undrafted blockers. Go to work. I mean, even, like, he was, Dallas Turner was playing on that side of the ball and, and playing well at one point. I mean, I don't know. The relationship that he has with the specialists is phenomenal.

And I, I did a story on this not too long ago. I, there's, to me, there's no way that that that would be a good idea. But you're right to bring it up because, like, when you have a season like this and it's disappointing, there are fall guys, but I would not do that. Offensive line coach, I think, has been in a really, really tough spot. And when they had their guys, they played well. That's a tough one. Offensive coordinator, I don't know.

That one is interesting because it just really depends on how KOC feels about the operation behind the scenes. Because people don't really realize what an offensive coordinator who a, who is not a play caller does, but they have a lot of responsibilities in building the weekly game plan. So if he doesn't feel like that process was good this year, then there might be a change. Let's see. Comet says your idea of a strong GM is a good one, but I think it's clear that Andrew Miller is in charge.

I don't, yeah, I don't know about that. I don't know how in charge or not Andrew Miller is. I believe I spoke to him once in the president. box. So I can't really say too much about that. But in terms of having someone with a ton of experience previously who could come in and say, I am the captain now, I don't think that's the worst idea I've ever heard. But to me, it's, to me, it's putting that person, like, the roster is yours. I mean, coaches, there's always that, you know, grocery list, grocery comparison, but there also needs to be someone who is truly in charge, who has the final

say. And as much as I like the idea of collaboration, I think the buck has to stop with somebody, rather than kind of having these decisions and getting to the end and saying, who's responsible? Well, we're not sure, right? Like, that's been a little bit difficult. Let's see. Douglas says Alec Lewis has an article today that mentioned again about not everyone being on board of the switch to McCarthy, any idea of the dissenting voices may have been. I do not know who that is. I could swing at a guess, but I mean, I'm not sure. Anytime you have a decision like that, this is, like, I mean, I know people in the national

football league because of my job, and I talk with them sometimes. And one thing that I am very aware of is that inside any building, any major decision, there's dissent. there's going to be people who don't want to do certain things uh you know i've heard from people that i know involved in certain decisions where they said man when we drafted that guy i was like you got to be kidding me you can't pick that guy are you serious you know you know things like that or uh how you know i told them not to let this guy go and we let him go and he turned out to be better like there's all those a major decision is going to have somebody who is

probably not on the other side of that. Now, Brian Flores did come to mind for me because when we talked about Sam Darnold, he talked about him so glowingly, but that's, I don't know. I mean, you're always going to have that. So I wasn't, I'm not surprised to hear that. Dan, what about drafting another quarterback? It's probably not. I mean, there's only, I was looking at that mock draft we did earlier.

There's only like two guys in the first round right now. Might only be a two quarterback first round. Christopher, do the Wills mean anything these days? Remember that long-worded speech after firing Zimmer and Spielman. Yeah, no, I mean, they're at every game. And as far as I understand the process of how this works is that they present their ideas and the Wulfs decide. And, hey, maybe if we're speculating completely with no information, because I will stand on this, everyone's responsible. When you make a decision and it blows up in your face of this magnitude,

It's all of you. It's not the Wilf's. It's not KOC. It's not KOC. It's not Josh McCown. It's not the person on the internet who tweeted, I want McCarthy. It's everybody's responsible, except for that last guy. Everyone's responsible, right?

And if you walk out in front of us in Cleveland and declare him the franchise quarterback, you can't say, oh, it wasn't my call. You can't do that. You don't get to do that. But to your point, my understanding is how it goes is they have their discussions and the Wilf's hear them out and they all try to decide together on their direction if someone's got to have the final say it's going to be the ownership. So that's my understanding of how it works. But yeah, they communicate a lot with the owners. It does seem like at the end of

Zimmer and Spielman, they had been running it for so long that they kind of lost it a little bit and maybe wanted to get some of the finger on the pulse back during this. Dan says Quacy's done a better job with undrafted free agents than the draft. Well, that's the thing is that they have, they have a decent amount of young talent, ish. Like, they don't have a core that's like when Detroit drafted all those players that were, you know, with all those draft picks after they tanked. And if you don't tank, this is how you have to find them.

You have to find a Jalen Redmond. You have to develop a Josh Mattelis. You have to find a Jordan Mason, that kind of thing. Develop a Jalen Naylor, who they kind of wasted a good season of. but, you know, is a successful draft pick for me. Derek, next year, McCarthy will have a code word and it'll be better. That's a great callback to 2018. That means you've been here for a long time, Derek, and I appreciate you.

Christopher says the Kirk stands are back with their excuses. Like, I always understood, I always understood the Kirk people, too. Most of them. I always understood the Kirk people. I think that the thing for me where I get uncomfortable when you are all in on JJ or all in on Kirk, like that's fine. I mean, you're a fan of the team. You buy the jersey.

You support the team. You're hoping, right? You're believing maybe someday this will work. Maybe that, you know, he's a good quarterback and it'll come together and he's a high draft pick and all those things. That's what makes this whole thing go is people showing up at stadiums and believe in in their teams. I'm not going to criticize that.

You guys wouldn't be listening to shows if I just said, they'll never win a Super Bowl. Like, that would be the worst, right? So we're not doing that. But when we're looking at it from a very black and white perspective, if that's the conversation we're having, like what I do for my show, then what's frustrating to me is when people come in with,

well, Josh Allen did it. That reminds me of like the Trent Dillfer, won a Super Bowl. Like, all you need is a mediocre quarterback. It's like, okay, you know, like, you have to allow me to be reasonable. Like, you don't have to, and that's okay, but at least what we do here, you have to allow me to look at the, the black and white of it, because that's kind of what I, what I try to do. And I think that's what most people want to know. You don't, you don't have to love that or, you know, you can think, well, his numbers say this, but it's going to go a different direction. I believe in it. That's cool. That's a good conversation to have.

and we could talk about why. But if it's like, don't, don't you dare say that. It's like, okay, well, that's what we do. Man says, is there a world where Kirk Cousins ends up back here? Oh, yeah. Yes, I think there is. I think that's a very real possibility. You talk about a quarterback who threads the needle.

See, there's tears of this. There's the Kyler Murray, if you get him as your starting quarterback. Like, JJ is just a backup. But if you get Kurt, or Gino or Mac or Daniel, those guys are, those guys are competition. And Kirk's played pretty well. You got to give him that.

He's played pretty well and they've won some games for Atlanta. And he did say he thought it was a mistake because they're talking about different worlds. Like there's a world where Kirk comes back and instead of winning 14 games, his Achilles isn't there yet. Maybe they win eight or something. And then they turn it over to JJ or whatever. Like, I don't know. But there was a world where clearly he did have an offer to come back.

It just wasn't what Atlanta's offer was. And he does have a close relationship with Kevin O'Connell. O'Connell has pointed that out. Let's see. Sam Howell, we're keeping the band together. Yeah. Yeah, well, it needs to be better than that. Be prepared for Aaron Rogers reports.

Yep, that. I mean, Rogers did not deny that he could convince. consider coming back. Nick says, do you believe he will win the camp battle feels like the entire Vikings beat doesn't think that he'll progress, which is why you talk about other quarterbacks. Well, that's a good, good framing of the question. I don't know. Like, that's why you have to have a battle. So what I'm always trying to do is to read the team's actions and figure out what my opinion and takeaway should be about it, right? So, when they moved on, I was of the opinion that they should franchise tag Sam Darnold.

And then when they moved on from him and turned over to JJ, I said, okay, well, I'm going to change my take here because clearly they believe in him and they've seen a lot more than I have, right? Like, that's how I tend to do it, like judge by their actions. So if they go into a camp battle between Jimmy Garapolo and J.J. McCarthy, well, then I'm going to assume that they feel pretty good about McCarthy. If they go into a camp battle with Kirk Cousins and McCarthy, I'm going to think, I think Kirk's going to win because he's way more experienced in the system and he's accurate and, you know, he knows how to throw to Jefferson. That's for dang sure because he had all of his best seasons with Kirk. I mean, and Darnold, but a lot of them with Kirk.

So it really depends on who it is that he's competing with. When we talk about these other quarterbacks, there is an absolute guarantee that someone above the wents line. I think, I think there's a guarantee. Someone above the wents line is your, is your camp quarterback next year competing with McCarthy. If it's someone below the wens line, well, then, man, they must be really, really super sold. But that's hard to see how that could be the case. Judging by the numbers from history, they're just not kind to quarterbacks who played like this. So if it's someone above that line of a traditional backup, then I'm going to assume it's a 50-50 shot. If it's someone above the the Kirk line, which would be, hey,

you're just competing with him. But if it's someone above that, if it's Kyler Murray, well, then he's the starter. So I don't know how to answer that question. Like, they absolutely are looking at other quarterbacks. You have to. You can't go into next year with a guy who's been injured four times. And when he hasn't, he's played 35th out of 35 in quarterback rating. Like, that just can, this is not going to work. I mean, you can, but you're risking a lot by doing so if he doesn't make big progress. That's why I think you want to find someone that he has the potential to beat, but if they doesn't, then you could still compete with the other teams in the NFC North.

It's very tricky. Very tricky. Let's see. What's up with you and Kyler Murray? The dude sucks. I do not want to see him in Minnesota. So what's up? Actually, let me ask you, let me answer your question with a question.

What's up with you guys and Kyler Murray? That would be my question. Because every time I say Kyler Murray, now let's go back and look at all of your comments when they signed Sam Darnel. I just throw that out there. When I look at Kyler Murray, and you know, it's a black and white show. So we're looking at it on paper here. Last season, this is just last year, 2004. This year he got injured and then they decided to tank.

You could put it whatever way you want. They decided to tank. Kyler Murray just last year was his PFF grade 82. point one, which puts him in the fringe of the top 10, he threw for 3,800 yards, 21 touchdowns, 11 interceptions, 27 big time throws, which is in the top 10. He had over almost 600 yards rushing five more rushing touchdowns and a 93.5 quarterback rating. Now, if that quarterback was on the Minnesota Vikings this year, 3,800 yards and let's say 26 or 27 total touchdowns, another 600 rushing yards, 27 big time throws.

What's their record? I mean, Kyler Murray has had multiple very good NFL seasons in his career. Now, the leadership, the relationship with the coach, the fit in the system, all that's fair. I personally think, I mean, his downfield passing has been, you know, very good over his career. And he once got DeAndre Hopkins 160 targets or something. so there's there's those parts of it too um but i understand not wanting kiler murray because it feels

like uh it just feels like mid right it feels like going nine and eight again probably or something like that right just if he's so inconsistent from week to week that it's hard to put together 12 wins of good enough of kailer murray now that's a fair enough argument there's some concerns about the work ethic there's some concerns about the leadership the personality and and you know, the contract, they'll probably just have to cut him and eat that contract, but that kind of changed everything with how Murray was viewed within the organization. They purposefully leaked out the video game thing to make him look bad, which is questionable at best of what that says about Kyla Murray.

But in terms of an actual player, his actual performance last season, I mean, his top receiving targets had, I mean, even look at Marvin Harrison has fallen off. the face of the earth last year had 885 yards as a rookie. Trey McBride went over 1,000 with 139 targets. Michael Wilson played pretty well. Like he's gotten people the ball. I don't know. Like in terms of options, there's not many good ones.

But the, when I mentioned Murray, it's like, oh my gosh, I would rather never root for the team again or something like, huh? Like, I mean, yeah, is he, is he great? Like, no. but it would be right along the same lines as a Sam Darnold. It would be, except for his past is actually much better than Sam Darnold. But it would be a former top draft pick who's sort of fallen out of favor or whose franchise just moved on because his contract was too big

and they needed to tank and put him on the right team under the right circumstances and the right culture and you've got a chance to get the most out of Kyler Murray. The other thing is I don't think he's that old. So, like, why do I bring it up? I mean, he's 28 because it has to be consistent. considered, right? I don't see how it could not be considered, at least.

So the vitriol toward it is a little bit much for me when you actually look at what he did just last year. Vikes to wins says it's crazy to me that we're a blown special teams coverage away from playing for the NFC North title. No, that's not right, is it? Because I think the Bears still would have had more wins. But yeah, I mean, that speaks to how good their defense has been and they're kicking, is that they had that many chances.

So, look, I mean, I don't, when it comes to the Kyler Murray idea, I'm not like getting a purple jersey with number one on it in Murray. I don't love it. It seems to me like it would put you right back in that ballpark of, hey, maybe you can make the playoffs with this guy and he's had his injuries and everything else too, including this year. So I don't, I mean, but that's the whole PSA of, you're going to hate every idea. I just, you know, that's like Ron says you'd rather go, oh, in 17, what?

I, huh? I just don't understand where the, the, like, did this guy do something to you? I mean, Kyler Murray's played the Vikings a couple times. He's been good against it. Like, why do you hate this guy so much? That's what's so weird. Is it, it's not even like, oh, well, I have questions about this. I don't think that's a good idea.

it's like, F, that guy, which is so weird. Has he done anything in public? Has he hurt someone? Has he hurt you? Like, I just, every time I bring this love, you guys have never hated anything I've ever said more than Kyler Murray. And I'm looking at his numbers and going, I don't know, man, if he was the quarterback for this team last year,

they'd have 12 wins. Kind of strange. He's a flawed player. It's definitely a flawed player. I wonder about the, the precision of his play. I wonder how much he is reliant on just scrambling and throwing down field. The personality stuff at some point has to be real.

There's just too much of it. But I don't know. I mean, if I told you that they feel like there's just no chance you can reach the level they need to with McCarthy. If I told you, I know that for sure. I'm not saying, I'm not reporting that. I'm just saying like, what if this scenario? But, you know, you can have this other guy who has won 11 games before. he gets a ball to his top receiver he's exciting to watch play he's a scrambler and that's your

best option and you're going to be like no i'd rather go oh in 17 i mean look at you guys after four and eight you i don't know man i don't know uh dan how do they replace flores if he leaves uh i think dorante jones is the right answer you just stay the course with what you've been doing these players have had flores his voice but jones has been in all those discussions the coverage as the defensive backs coach. He's been somebody on the rise for a long time, I think. I would just stay with what you have, not look outside if they feel like he can lead that group.

Christopher wants the O-line coach fire. That's a hard one for me. I mean, 15th by PFF with about 20 different combinations. But I wouldn't be, no matter what happens, I wouldn't be surprised. If the GM's gone, if the quarterback coach is gone, if the O-line coach, like these things have consequences and that's how the football works uh dark horse from douglas is the rams flame out of the playoffs and they get stafford uh that that is a dark horse that is a very very very dark horse i i can't see that one uh ron says lamar jackson

would be the offseason trade if the ravens lose in the playoffs that was our fan dual question of the day well you know look at the lamar thing it's weird it's very weird his relationship with the Ravens. It's just odd. How do you make that work, though? What do you give them? Grenard would be a thing. First rounder, two first rounders.

I was a little more stable on the borough idea, but both of them have injuries. But there's never a question about Borough and the leadership or what he means to that franchise or how people view him. Lamar, there's always a little bit of an undercurrent there of frustration from the team. And maybe that's just his health. but the Baltimore Sun article going after him, that was kind of odd. Trading KOC is only one coach I've seen traded John Grun.

I think there's been others. Was Sean Payton traded to the Broncos? Does happen. I don't think they would do that. But if somebody, I mean, I don't know. Now we're deep in the weeds here. It's 7 o'clock and you guys are drunk on Vikings ideas on New Year's. but I don't think you want to trade a good coach.

When you look at all the coaches that were hired at the same time as KOC, it'll make that more clear. Let's see. Forces, I don't believe it's worked out for the Browns. You could give them number one pick every single year. Well, right, but I mean, the general idea of that scenario was, would you rather be kind of locked into being mid or take a big hack at potential greatness? Now, it didn't work out for the Browns, but did they ever handle anything the right way to take a swing of greatness?

And really, if they stuck with Baker Mayfield and kept building around him, it probably works out for them. Because they built a strong roster right after, but, you know, because they got the number one pick and they drafted Baker. And then they were in the playoffs and they were one completion by Chad Henney away from going to the AFC championship, right? Wasn't that the case? So, I mean, the Vikings haven't been in that position. very often. So even when it hasn't worked for a horrible franchise tanking worked for them to get him to that spot once.

And they made the playoffs with Joe Flacco because they had a strong enough roster through tearing it all down. So there's a bit of a case there. Ronald says McCarthy can be really good. He's got the talent. The problem is staying healthy. Well, that is part of the issue. It's very hard to develop when you're dealing with injuries a lot.

Um, let's see, is this, uh, is this Kaelin? Sorry if, uh, I think I've got that. Do you think, uh, JJ has a legit shot to be a top 10 to 12 quarterback in the NFL? Let's see who that is. Let's see who that is. Like, who are we talking about? What's our bar? Let's see.

Who's the 10th? Well, Tyler Shuck has graded well, but we won't count him. Uh, let's see. This year, it's been on, by PFF. Now, Mahomes, that's different because he's obviously still great, but didn't have a great year overall. So let's just call it Caleb Williams, Jared Gough, Bo Nicks, C.J. Stroud, are your quarterbacks between 11 and 15 by PFF? And I think the answer is yes to be in that range. I think that that is possible. It's going to take improvement for sure from him this offseason. I don't

think it's unattainable to get to that point. But the other reason to have the competition is that you also don't know about the health and whether he can stay healthy through an entire season next year. So you have to have competition. Is it in the cards? Is it possible? Is it still out there? Like, yes, of course it is.

Because he is still a young quarterback and he's got tools to do it with. It's just, do you have time to let him work his way into it, probably not. unless it happens next year. That's why this offseason is so big for him. But, I mean, I think can he be as good as Knicks or Stroud? Yeah, he can. I definitely think that that is something that's very possible. Okay. Well, anyway, the Murray health issue is also very, very, very real. Todd was impressed with Malik Willis last week. Me too. I like the, I like the Malik Willis idea. but the Malik Willis idea has to come along with moving on for McCarthy because otherwise

Malik Willis isn't signing here. If I was his agent, I'd be saying, go get QB1 money and opportunity. Surprise he didn't mention he's been injured. No, yeah, that's real. That's a real thing. It's more about the, we could compare his numbers with Brissette. Dude, they haven't won a thing with Jacoby Brisset. I'm baffled by the number of people who said that Jacoby Brisset play.

well this year. He did not. He did not. I mean, it's fine. It's a, it's a, it's a quintessential backup quarterback type performance for Jacoby Brissette. Very, very, very, very limited in what he can do. And he's, it's, it's phenomenal for backup. It's, it's, it's Ryan Fitzpatrick. It's Ryan, but it's not better than Kyler Murray. What was their record? What was their record with Jacoby Brissette versus Murray? Uh, the work ethic thing is concerning. Yeah, for sure. Thank you, Dan, for listening. Really appreciate that from Georgia. Cool.

But yeah, no, you're right. You're right, Corey, that his reputation is concerning, for sure. And when we go through the other options, Daniel Jones's Achilles and sealing is concerning. Kirk's Achilles and his age is concerning. Mack Jones, maybe just not being that great, is concerned. Like, every other option is going to have its worries.

And I'm not even saying Kyler's my favorite one. I think for entertainment value, probably. because he's a really fun player to watch. And, but in terms of, like, threading the needle of finding someone who can be really good competition for him, Gino, for me, is the best option. Because if Gino wins that competition over McCarthy, it was just last year that he won 10 games. I know he's been horrible this year, but last year, you know, he's still, I mean, he's older, but he's not, like, decrepit. So, you know, I think he could play pretty well in this system and then be frustrating and probably get you in the playoff. So I don't know. The options are interesting to talk about I'm putting together

and putting together like a dossier, you know, of all the different cases for each guy. So I'm working my way through that. Anyway, it's been great. And I also have a conversation with Grant Bills about the Vikings and Packers, but it's not really about the game. It's entirely about the Packers. Are they going to fire Matt LaFleur? Like, what are they going to do here going forward. So I am going to roll. I'm going to go watch some college football. I'm going to let the dog out. I want you guys to all have a safe and happy new year. So do not drink a drive. Use that Uber button. Use the lift button or whoever wants to sponsor the show. And here's my conversation with Grant Bills, who covers the Packers. Folks, as you know, Purple Insider is always growing and changing.

And I'm looking to take steps forward in 2026, just like your business. Now, I'm lucky to have a great crew, but as a business owner, I am well aware of the challenges of trying to find quality people to add to the roster. So if you're hiring for your company in 2026, let me give you a little advice. Check out ZipRecruiter with new goals in 2026. You may be looking to add to your squad. And thankfully, there's a place that you can go to help conquer these challenges and achieve your hiring goals. And right now, you can try ZipRecruiter free at ZipRecruiter.com slash audio. This is not some run-of-the-mill job website, my friends, they have tools and data that separates them from the pack. ZipRecruiter's matching technology works fast to find top talent so you don't have to

waste your time and money and you can find out right away how many job seekers in your area are qualified for your role. Let ZipRecruiter help you find the best people for all of your roles. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter find a quality candidate within the first day. See for yourself. Just go to the exclusive web address, ZipRecruiter, and try it for free. ZipRecruiter.com slash audio. That is ZipRecruiter.com slash audio. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. All right, we welcome into the show for, I don't know, enough times to come back. Grant Bilsk, the Wiscoe sports show, there in one of my favorite towns, Madison, Wisconsin. And look, this is not a football game that gets a hardcore preview. from the folks that are going to have to watch it, per our jobs. But that doesn't mean it's not interesting to talk about these two National Football League franchises. And I know that Minnesota fans are always keeping their eyes out over there on

Wisconsin and what's going on with the Packers and we'll be rooting extremely hard against the Packers when they are in the postseason. Grant, I would like to know from you if you are on the squad of people that surprises me by wanting Matt LaFleur fired? No, I've never been there. We take a lot of calls. So I produce our midday show 10 to 2 and then I host from 4 to 6. So I just, I get a lot of input, comments call.

I just, I hear a lot of incoming material and incoming data and comments from people. And there are plenty of people who do. I've always liked Matt LaFleur. I don't think he's perfect, but I don't think many coaches are. Like most coaches, they're really good at scheme. They might struggle with this. or maybe they're a great leader or they set a good culture, but they struggle with this, right? Like no coach is the perfect well-rounded guy and Matt LaFleur is no different.

But I've always been a big fan. I think these last couple of weeks and the way this season is gone has maybe shifted me a little bit more against Matt LaFleur. I still don't think I want the Packers to move on from him this off season. I'm interested to hear your take. You know, we're so embedded. We're talking about it every day. So we have takes that would probably make people on the outside go, you know, what the heck? I do think this is a really tough stretch.

And if the season ends the way that it's going right now, I do think it's way more of a decision in the Packers' front office than I would have guessed, you know, two months ago or when the season started. I do find that when you talk to anybody else who's there every single day about their head coach, they will tell you all of the things that that person does wrong, except for maybe like McVeigh, I don't know,

because he just wins all the time. But aside from that, the same would go for here. I mean, if we were roles reversed, which we are sometimes when I go on your show and you ask me about the things Kevin O'Connell does wrong, I would tell you, well, he's got this tendency and maybe didn't do this or that with the offense. And man, if it's third or fourth and one, watch out because it's probably not going to be good. And things like that, which I think him and Lefleur may have in common. But then anybody else, if you had Albert Breer, you know,

a national type of person on who's reasonable, he would tell you, like, what are you talking about? Kevin O'Connell's a great coach. And so I think, think that there is a, like when we put these guys under a microscope, we know every single strength and weakness after multiple years. And then when you don't get over the top, especially if you're stuck in mediocrity as the Packers have been the last couple of years, you start to get antsy and go, does this have to be a situation where someone else needs to come in and spark this thing? But I tend to think that that example that everyone loves of John Gurdent taking over for Tony Dungy is now quite antiquated.

And I can't think of too many other ones where the franchise was in good hands with the head coach and constantly competitive. And then they fired that person. And then the next guy came in. If you've got one, let me know. I think Matt Lafleur sets a certain bar for you that's pretty high. And the other options are a mystery bag. And often if you look at coach higher success failure, I mean, more coaches are failing than

succeeding. So how do you deal with sort of the devil you know, the devil you don't issue? Well, I think the, the example of that, the replacement coach that took the team over the top that carries the most weight that everyone always cites is Steve Kerr for Mark Jackson. But everyone always cites that as if it's like a super common thing. You know what I mean? Like this might just be the classic Steve Kerr for Mark Jackson situation. But it's like, but that's the only time that's ever happened. You know what I mean? But we always use it. And it and his basketball. And it was a long time ago. It was like, can anyone give me? an example since 2020 or 2016 since that's happened?

Yeah, I think Matt LaFleur, why I maybe have skewed a little bit more anti-Mat LaFleur this year, especially really just in the last month, is I'm really having a difficult time with this Packers team being the seven seed. I know they're injured. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm baking that in. But this team should have won the division. And they should have won this division or should have been kind of running away or convincingly

winning the division, even as Micah Parsons was injured and done, they just left so many games on the table this year with Cleveland. And Dallas, you know, the funny thing is, is I think Aaron Nagler brought this up last time he was on our network. Like, everyone's fine picking the Packers to go 11 and 6, but then every one of those six losses, they lose their mind. So like, yes, I'll bake in a couple losses, but the Cleveland one was tough. And the Carolina, okay, Carolina, Dallas. The Philly, Philly is a nasty roster, but they had lots of chances to win that at home on Monday night. They stepped on in a bunch of different ways. And then you couldn't beat the Bears when you dominated them for 58 minutes. It just seems like those types of moments happen with Matt LaFleur teams a lot. And maybe it's horrible luck and it has nothing to do with the coach. These are things that, you know, talk radio. We talk about what we never figure out. Like how much is a coach actually responsible for when his guys don't make plays in the biggest moments? Is that all in the player? It's a little on the coach. I don't know. But I don't think the fact that the Packers have been the seven seed the last three years is a complete and total, you know, I think that's reflective of them. In order to win the division, you need to cut out some of those bad losses and you need to be, you know, a team that doesn't have an awful month or a bad stretch of games.

And they've proven incapable of that. And I don't know at a certain point, you have to wonder if that's a little bit of a reflection of the head coach. So I think that Lefleur might fall into a similar category that I always put Kirk Cousins in because people would say to me, you hate Kirk Cousins. And I'm like, no, no, no, it's more nuanced than that. Plus, I got along with Kirk fine. He's a very nice guy. But where I always put, Kirk was in a category of just good enough to let you down,

which is a compliment and a criticism at the same time. Just like Kirk Cousins, I mean, he's a very good quarterback who always had the Vikings in the race, in the playoffs, in the hunt, got in the playoffs, won a single playoff game. But at the end of the year, you'd look up and go, oh, you know, things didn't go exactly right for the team. and you end up with seven wins or you end up with eight wins or you know and with mike zimmer where his job was on the line like not good enough in a handful of those games to save mike zimmer's job

maybe he didn't want to but i he i'm not saying he tried not to the point is just that le flur is kind of the same way that he is just good enough to get you into a lot of games that matter and then let you down in a lot of those games that matter and the always and forever challenge that we have with both quarterbacks and coaches is how much they're impacted by everything that they have. Micah Parsons going out is not something that you just skirt over of like, yeah, well, Michael Parsons went out, but no, no, no, no, no, no, hold on. We're talking about one of the five best players in the entire national football league,

and on defense, it's Miles Garrett and Micah Parsons, one and two. This is not a small thing that happened in that game that they end up blowing, right? So, you know, I, was that the game? Was that the game? It was against Chicago that he, did that? that, no, it was against Denver, but they ended up blowing that game too. So, uh, anyway, the point just being that, you know, I think that when you have a guy there, what the choice you have to make is will he give you enough swings at it by setting a certain

standard that one of those times ever, it's going to go out of the park or is there something that is restricting him from getting you over the top? With Kirk, it was clearly the athletic ability, the scrambling, the playmaking that restricted him. What is it with Matt? Lafleur? I don't know. We talk about, you know, so last year, and again, I do our midday show with Bill Michaels, we talked about this endlessly where week after week they'd show up and they'd have pre-snap penalties and they'd have execution errors. And part of that was just drops by the wide receivers last year. They had a really bad year. And in year two and a lot of those guys, we had high expectations. And I thought last year that maybe we expected too much too fast because it was a really young team and they popped in such a way in Jordan Love's first year as starter that, you know, maybe we expected them to just probably the same way a lot of people looked at the Texans. We just thought that they would take another step and be Super Bowl contenders. And I thought coming into this year, okay, well, this is the year. We expected too much too fast last year.

And a lot of those errors will be smoothened out. And in a lot of games, they have been, but then in those bad moments when they're playing Cleveland and they lose or Dallas, the special team's errors have been an issue, you know, the Chicago game a couple weeks ago. So I think that might, you know, that's, but that's very nebulous. I can't look at that and say Matt LaFleur should have gone for that fourth down or he should have called a different play on third and six. It's very much interpretation and kind of up for us to decide how much blame we want to place on the floor. I also feel for him because as you said, the injuries are very real.

Tucker Kraft, I think, was their best weapon on offense until Christian Watson came back. But they've missed him. Zach Tom also got hurt in that Denver game. He's their best offensive lineman. Their offensive line this year has been a disappointment. And to Matt LaFleur's credit, and if he ends up losing his job, which, I think I'd still bet against. But if he loses his job, if I was Matt LaFleur, I'd lose a lot of sleep because there was a moment, Matt,

and maybe this is fan coping. You can call me on it if you want. But there was a moment coming out of halftime in that game in Denver, 3 o'clock game, November afternoon where the Packers look awesome. They come out of half time and they score. They get a three and out. They get the ball back. And it's like, here they go.

This is the version of the team we've been waiting for. This is about to be their signature win. And they're about to be playing their best ball at the right time. Halfley's in place. Micah Parsons in place. And then it all just hit the fan. Micah got hurt and Watson got hurt. And they just haven't bounced back.

So I do wonder, like, if that Sunday afternoon goes differently and those guys don't get hurt, I think there's an alternate reality where we're doing cartwheels over the floor and to his credit, he should have won that game in Chicago with Malik Willis. Like, he should have, that was a, that was a 10 out of 10 feather in a coach's cap type of win that doesn't get to go on his ledger because they couldn't field an onside kick. So I, again, I think Matt LaFleur is excellent, but, you know, some of those things can be nitpicked. But I also think the timeline has been dark for him this year in ways that maybe he doesn't deserve. Let me throw back to like a Marty Schottenheimer, since we're using old

references kind of reminiscent a bit of that where the Chargers, when Schottenheimer is their coach, I think he was the coach. It might have been Norv Turner. But the charges were like the snake bitten team in the playoffs. They intercept Tom Brady and all the guy has to do is go down to the ground and then they win the game. And instead he tries to run, fumbles the ball, gives it back to the Patriots, Patriots go win. And Brady gets to be the biggest winner and the Chargers get to be the biggest losers. And you're just like, this is the razor's edge that every game seems to be, especially when you get into the big games, the playoffs. And when you mention injuries and go, well, you know, it's injuries.

I mean, Tucker Kraft was like a top three tight end in the NFL. Micah Pars is the top three defensive player in the NFL. Offensive lineman. Josh Jacobs was the top five running back last year and has been injured the entire season, didn't play against the Vikings. and then he's been banged up the rest of the way so they can't run the ball the same. And I also think that you are probably in the range of a quarterback that is similar to Kirk in that way. I think that Jordan Love, because of his aggressiveness and physical tools, is higher ceiling

than Kirk Cousins because you can have someone about to tackle him, but he's six foot four and he could throw it 47 yards down the field for a touchdown. And that was something that, you know, Kirk couldn't do. But, you know, it's still, there's enough flaws there with Jordan Love where it isn't like you're going to lose everybody on the team and have a coach that's probably an 8 out of 10 and not a 10 out of 10. And then Jordan Love is just going to be like, give me the airbrush. Oh, I just painted over all those problems. I don't think that he's quite on that level. I think he can have moments.

I really like, I think Jordan Love's great. What's weird with Jordan Love is I have a recurring joke or I always make this joke on my show where it's like, we watch the. game on Sunday and we draw conclusions. And then Monday through Friday is when we get battered with stats and graphs and, you know, it's like, look at where Jordan Love is. He's in the upper right. It's like, sure, but there's always a couple of moments on Sundays, not always, but a lot of weeks where it's like, yeah, but it doesn't feel like it translates. And I think part of that is, you know, their offense as a whole to get to get into the X's and O's of the Packers very briefly, like, they can't run the ball this year. Yeah, at all. They're incapable of doing it. We spent the first

two months of the year coming up on opponents and saying, well, if they can't run the ball this week, they can't run it on anybody and it was the Bengals and then the Steelers and then the bear like and they against nobody they couldn't do it and Tucker Kraft was so important for this team because he was almost like a weird supplement to the running game and that you could check the ball down to him and he would rumble for 15 free yards and they don't really have another guy who can do that so Jordan Love does not have the you know and high high price quarterbacks have to do some of their own I totally get it but he has no running game this year and he lost the one guy who kind helped make up for that. And the defense now, and this started before Michael Parsons went down,

they're not very good. Like success rate, time of possession, plays per drive, they can't get off the field and they can't force turnovers. Part of that is Xavier McKinney forgot how to catch the football, like straight up. That's a big reason why. But they don't have a pass rush. So I think Jordan Love has had a very, very good year. But he's not the type of player, he's not Josh Allen, where he can just win you an extra two games that you wouldn't have won otherwise, to your point, exactly. But I don't know. It's crazy because we're three years in with Jordan Love and we're still taking calls on all our shows. Like, is he the guy? Is he not the guy? It's like, well, I don't, I don't even know what that means at this point of his career and his arc with the Packers. You know what I

mean? Well, I've started to kind of chunk quarterbacks into my own tiers of doing it a certain way. And that way is by how many chances that guy will have to win a Super Bowl. So Aaron Rogers, if he's your quarterback, you're going to have a lifetime's worth of chances to win the Super Bowl. and, I mean, you have to have a total calamity to not be in that mix going into the playoffs. Well, we know that Jordan Love isn't that because there's only about 18 people who have ever played quarterback

in the history of the NFL who are that. But the second level down is the Justin Herbert, the Dak Prescott, the guy who is really, really good, and everyone thinks is good. And especially like the Illuminati of tape analysts will always, oh, look at this throw, look at that throw.

People don't really. I mean, and I'm not, yeah, I mean, not disrespectful. And I like him. I didn't mean to, yeah, I didn't mean to drag him. I like Steve. I just, I mean anybody, like that, that whole group of people who that's like their main job is that they tend to have a lot of the same opinions of who they like and who they don't like.

They all love Justin Herbert, which I think everyone thinks he's good. And, you know, Dak Prescott is, you know, that kind of thing, right? And I think some of that is that all of these guys have. and things that they do well that are way, way above average. And having watched truly putrid quarterback play this year myself, I now watch Deck Prescott like I'm at the zoo. Look at that throw. Look at that.

Oh, my goodness. This is incredible. I mean, my eyes pop out of my head, right? Like, it's a circus to watch, you know, even a decent quarterback play after you've seen it be really bad. I know you guys don't know a lot about that. But with... We had a month a couple of years.

years ago where it wasn't hot. There was a game Doug Peterson might have played like 24 years ago. But anyway, the point being that those quarterbacks will put you in these games and give you a chance. But in order to win one, we've seen a handful of these types of quarterbacks win a Super Bowl. But usually the seas have to part. And that's like Philadelphia going to a Super Bowl where Brock Party tears his arm or going to the Super Bowl last year with a fair. incredibly defense and the best running game maybe the NFL's ever seen like these

you have to have some sort of super power around these quarterbacks in order to make it happen but if you keep swinging you're a Matt Ryan or Phil Rivers you might get a real chance or three or five during Jordan Love's career to me you don't bail on that type of guy you just keep swinging

yeah and it's Jordan Love is the weirdest player I did a segment on my show about this after the Lions game on Thanksgiving because people, a lot of people don't really know what to do with them, Packers fans or Packers Media too. He is so good at avoiding pressure in the pocket and extending plays and buying time, but he's also the worst running quarterback I've ever seen, which is such an odd. You don't see those two realities in one player. And Stephen Ruiz, funny enough, has written about that. Like, and I don't know what to do with that reality.

He's also succeeding Aaron Rogers, who succeeded Brett Farve. So I'm not even saying that the standards are too high, although that's probably true among Packers. fans. It's just like, that's such a weird spot to step into as a player. He'll make a couple of throws every Sunday where it's like, that's an unbelievable, you know what I mean. And you don't even notice it in the game until you, you know, someone clips the all 22 and posted on Tuesday where it's like, look, he made this from the opposite hash and he puts it on the fingertips on the far side. And like, yeah, brilliant throw are brilliant throws always what win games, you know, on Sundays? I also feel a little bad for Jordan Love in a way that I feel bad for Matt LaFleur because

Jordan Love should have a couple of game winning drives this year. He took him down the field in Cleveland after his defense gave up the score after he threw the worst pick of his life. He bounces right back, marches down the field and the game-winning field goal gets blocked. Or Dallas, he had the go-ahead drive or tying drive like four times in that game between the fourth quarter and overtime. So when Jordan Love has played his best this year in big clutch moments, it always hasn't been rewarded with a win. And I actually think that the same is true of Matt LaFleur where it's like some of his best

performance is Chicago with Malik Willis two weeks ago. They lose the game because that's how the NFL works. So I'm not trying to make excuses. I'm just trying to paint the full picture and a game I like to play on my show. It's like, okay, this three-point loss that could have gone either way, let's just consider what the conversation would be like if it was flipped just to try to keep a half-decent perspective and not go two nuts. I try to do that, but ultimately, like, you know, that's just a hypothetical. You have to deal with the wins and the losses.

And the Packers, in an all-in-year trading for Micah Parsons are nine, six and one. Living in the middle is a very, very tough place to be. and the Vikings under Mike Zimmer and Kirk Cousins, I felt like we're there. And we would debate Kirk Cousins in the same way that you're talking about people debating Jordan Love. And I remember at one point, I kind of got a little frustrated, not that that happens often on the show.

And I just said, it's not an interesting subject anymore, folks. Like, we know what this is. And that was me this year with Jordan Love is, I know what this is. Now, I think what that is is good enough to, win with. But I don't think it's good enough to win with a first round draft pick wide receiver who can't get on the field, a mediocre offensive line, no run game, a tight end who is awesome and then tears his ACL, other receivers who are going between corner and receiver, which, you know, I mean, I guess if it's Travis Hunter, that's exciting. But Bo Melton, maybe a little bit less.

Bo Melton can stay healthy. Give him, give him credit. Dude, Bo Melton, it drives me nuts because I think Matthew Golden is, I think he's good. Like, in all the metrics that we have, which are limited because he doesn't get the ball very often, he gets open and he catches the ball. And then like, Dantabian Wix gets hurt. And Matt Lafleur is like, all right, time to roll out the Bowelton package. It's like, man, I like, just throw your rookie the ball. It's hilarious because we all thought the Matthew Golden pick was different, the player

that's going to help right away. And instead, it's been the opposite. It's just, it's been the same Packers first round pick I've seen for years. It just came in a position we didn't expect. And part of that is like, Christian Watson came back and was awesome right away. And I didn't know that the Packers were willing to bet on that. They shouldn't have been.

Wicks gives them an awesome game on Thanksgiving. And I like Don Tavian Wicks enough. But like I think they've had some outcomes go better than they possibly predicted at wide receiver, which means they haven't needed Matthew Golden a lot. But like maybe throw him the ball and not Bow Melton where he volleyball sets it up in the air. And, you know, poor Clayton Tune gets intercepted on his first fast attempt as a Packer. Poor guy. I am curious where, because the, the drum.

and I know this has been a thing with J.J. McCarthy, too. I'm curious about the drops and Jordan Love. It's not that bad. About 6% of his passes this year. It just seems like every one of that 6% of his passes has been when he really needed one. Yeah, and they were all, it feels like they were all in the Eagles game and the Giants game.

Like, they all came in those two games. And it's funny because everyone thinks Christian Watson can't catch, but he's got the best hands on the team. Like it's actually Dobbs and Reed and Wicks, less so Wicks this year, actually just more Dobbs and Reed, who just can't catch the ball. But even as you're saying these names,

every one of them in my brain registers as just a guy. Like, if Dobbs and Wicks were standing right next to me, I'd be like, I don't know who you guys are. Like, I don't know which one is it. I mean, even watching them play. Like, Jaden Reed is really good. Health is an issue with him too. And this is where, I don't know, everyone, like, is it,

you need a better training staff? No, I don't. It's probably not it. Maybe, I don't know. Like, there's no answer for the injuries. but let's look, let's look a little bit ahead and then a lot ahead with the Packers. I want to score prediction for this week. No, I'm just kidding.

Don't do that. The Vikings are going to win this game. That's what's going to happen. Who are they starting? Do we know? I think it's going to be McCarthy. He's practicing. So I think he's going to play.

And he's going to pull a Matt Flynn and throw for 480 yards. And then they're going to name him the starting quarterback for next year. The Packers on Fandul are plus 1,800 to win the Super Bowl. teams that have better chances to win the Super Bowl include the Bears plus 1,700, the Jaguars plus 1,300, and the Texans at plus 1,200, along with all the other ones that you would think.

Is that fair to just kind of put them out of sight out of mind as a Super Bowl contender? Well, I think so. Yeah, I mean, their defense just gave up 300 yards rushing. You know what I mean? They can't run the ball. You can only have so many things, if you're looking at a team as a potential Super Bowl team,

you can only have so many parts of the team where you're like, yeah, that sucks. Like, that's just a no, that's a non-starter. And I like Jeff Halfley, I think. And I like some of their players on defense. I don't know that that unit, well, I know that unit isn't good enough without Micah Parsons. We had Sam Brookhouse on, who's one of my favorites, you know, football analysts. And he's been making the point on our shows for two years where it's like,

this Packers team is the same team they've always been just with Micah Parsons. And now Micah Parsons isn't playing. So, yeah, I think it's fair. It's funny. the Packers have been in front of the bears and the odds for aside from record until at least it had to be like a week or two ago. So that's a recent development. I know they were, I think, third with a healthy mic to win the NFC once upon a time, which felt good. I'm like, this is, this is on the table. But yeah, I would say that that's completely fair, 100%. Off season, let's say keep

LaFleur, which I think is the most reasonable thing to do. I mean, if you look at hiring, go through hiring cycles. Here's some show content for you. Just go through hiring cycles. All the coaches, that were hired, just go through them and look at how many are left. Because I believe when Kevin O'Connell was hired in 2022, there were 10 and there's one left and that's Kevin O'Connell, I think. Maybe two, but I think it's one after Davele was fired. So maybe the other one's on the hot seat. But several of them were gone before they even settled into their office like Josh McDaniels, or Nate Hackett. So you can all, when people think, well, the next guy's got to be better,

he definitely doesn't. But anyway, let's just stay there. with Matt LaFleur, stay mostly status quo. What does the offseason look like when you have not only the best defensive player, but now one of the most expensive defensive players and not only a really good quarterback, but one of the most expensive quarterbacks in the NFL? How does this team break out of where they are right now? Well, I think it starts this offseason with the offensive line. They have some questions.

So Rashid Walker has been their left tackle. And I think he's been good to very good. he normally has his worst games at the most important time, which is probably also true of Zach Tom, but those are also against the best team. So I guess that's understandable. So they need to figure out what to do with him.

They need to figure out center because Elton Jenkins was the plan. He exploded his leg and wasn't any good. Sean Ryan's filled in and been fine. Belton's been playing right guard. Jordan Morgan's been hanging out as a former first round pick and everyone just assumes, well, he'll take over at left tackle. I'm like, geez, he couldn't really hack it at guard. And I guess he's been fine at right tackle.

I don't really love that. plan. So they're going to have to rework the O line, which is bad this year. They couldn't run block, which I think is really hamstrung LaFleur. He wants to run the ball. He wants to run the ball. O'Connell wants to throw the ball. And both coaches seem like they're really hesitant to admit that they can't do the thing they want to do. So I think LaFleur is the inverse of O'Connell. So the O'Line, for sure. And I think the D line is well, not to just chalk up an offseason to the trenches, but their D line has been decimated. Their depth is hurt on top of DeBonte Wyatt and Micah Parsons has been down. I assume Rashon Gary will be gone. He's

expensive and he's been measurably awful, not just for the player that he is on that contract. He has been a bad player. And Iqbari, they'll have to make a choice on. So they have to rework both of the fronts, which is a scary place to be, but I still like their wide receiver room. Romeo Dobbs is probably the odd man out. I like their safeties. Probably got to get a couple corners too, but I don't know.

Jeff Haffley has been crowned as a head coach in waiting. That feels like a coin flip. It would be kind of cool if they could keep him. I'm not really sure what to think because his defense. is really regressed here. All off seasons that you're not replacing the big ones, the coach, the quarterback, feel like reshuffling when those guys have had a big enough sample

to be in the middle-ish, like middle, middle top, but still middle-ish. And this is always the concern about making the all-in big swing, go-for-it type of move. Because if it doesn't work, then you look around and go, okay, now what? Like we traded for Michael Parsons and that didn't get us to the top seed in the NFC. Now what?

Now you're going to get him back and he's going to be good and dominate the way that he has. But I mean, it should be telling just with defensive players in general how like Miles Garrett's having an MVP level season and their team has like four wins. I mean, it's just there's only so much that one guy can do when you can't cover as well. And you're not special in the other places. Yeah, Rashon, Gary. I mean, what the heck happened to that guy? just is not the same player anymore,

which seems like it's happened to a lot of Packers players that flash and then where does it go? Yeah, I'd argue that he was always closer to Nick Perry and Dayton Jones, former Viking as well. Oh, yeah, Viking legend. I don't think he made the team, actually. The best season he ever had, I think, was nine sacks. So like a solid player, but certainly not a guy who's going to carry defense.

Definitely not now when he's older and look slow. honestly the biggest thing that they need to do next season is not blow three or four games that they have no business blowing yeah like that would go a long way and i think they're capable of doing that block an extra point field an on side kick don't fumble in the five like it's it's those types of things because i think they were a better team than their record would indicate this year and it's because they can't make those three or four important plays all too often to win games and the bears did that everyone wants to say the bears aren't that good i don't know man they made those plays and the packers didn't and that's why they're winning the division and the packers are the

seven seat again. Okay, before I let you go, who would you not want to see as the Vikings quarterback next year? Ooh. If you're the Packers, who do you not want to see? Within reason. Obviously, you don't want to see Lamar Jackson as a Viking, but within reason. I mean, the Stafford Dream is probably dead a year or two ago that maybe felt possible. I mean, are you guys going to bring Malik Willis into compete a camp? I really like Malik Willis. I think, I don't know. I think, I mean, KOC, some very, very interesting comments

about Malik Willis's development. He's just another, he would be another Darnold, right? Like come in and push our starter and if you win the job, okay, then that's fine too. I really like him. So that would kind of suck. Do you think he's good, Willis? It's a small sample. I think he's fine. My take has been, if he starts 17 games, I don't think he's the guy that we've seen.

But also, I think for this team, like, he can run. And they can't run. And Jordan Love can't run. So like a couple scrambles a game goes a long way. And I think that's been a big part of the reason that Malik Willis has flashed the last couple of weeks. But man, he can, he can sling the thing, too. Like, he can throw it down field. Kevin O'Connell could work with that.

You know, I haven't picked up on how the run game is doing for the Packers this year. Maybe we should go spend some more time on that. Grant Bills, Madison, Wisconsin is a great town. And that's where you are on every day. And Bill Michaels, a great guy. It does a great show there as well. So you're a friend of the show. And I occasionally show up there.

So I'm sure, you know, we'll see each other around, maybe a combine or something. But the offseason has begun here and probably in about, you know, a week for you as well. So it feels it feels that way. Thank you. I'm finding myself in the Twin Cities, I had Christmas in Eden Prairie. So next time I'm up there, I have to, I'll drop you a line. But yeah, it feels like the off season is near, which means we can actually start talking about replacement candidates. I haven't allowed that yet.

It's like, let's decide if we want to fire the guy before. Like, I hate them. Well, who are you going to replace them with? That's January-February content. We'll save that. You know how it works. Thanks for coming on, Grant. Appreciate it, man.

Have a good one.