Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - JJ McCarthy trying to 'rewire' how he plays QB (Part 1)

Episode Date: November 20, 2025

Matthew Coller talks about JJ McCarthy's latest comments about relearning how to play the QB position at the pro level. KOC also addressed his throwing motion and Maggie Robinson joins to look around the NFL. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar, here. And a lot to talk about tonight, J.J. McCarthy, very interesting at the podium today. A fairly light injury report for the Vikings, but not so much for the Green Bay Packers. We'll talk about all of that. As always, the show presented by Fandul, but there's plenty of space this evening for your your questions, comments, thoughts, feelings, emotions, reactions to the Vikings, where they stand at four and six, and what is still to come, which is where our Fandual question of the day comes from. I'm going to ask you that first, then we could dive deep into what McCarthy had to say today.

So the Fandual question of the day is this. The Vikings are 6.5 point underdogs to the Green Bay Packers and Lambo. have you given up on picking them to win? Have you giving up on the results of the season? Or could they drag you back in with a victory over the Green Bay Packers tweeted out a chart today that their chances to make the playoffs would go up to 13% with a win over the Green Bay Packers? So you're telling me there's a chance. I think you can use that meme when we get to this point. But a win over the Packers, would that change things for you?

They are 6.5 point underdogs there on Fanduil. So interested in your answers there. But let's start off by talking about J.J. McCarthy. Something that I noticed today in him talking at the podium was that he was very honest with everyone, with answering questions, as he always is. But I also think that it sounded to me like he's honest with himself. And we've heard Kevin O'Connell talk a lot about the different things that McCarthy has to work on with the mechanics.

I feel like, am I a quarterback coach now after listening to J.J. McCarthy, and he might need a new one, JJ McCarthy analysis from the head coach. And there are a few people in this world who know more about quarterback play than Kevin O'Connell. So if you've been watching and listening to his press conferences, his breakdowns, talking about mechanics and today he was breaking down how you deal with messy and muddy pockets and he kind of snarked about Tom Brady's 40 time but said you know when it came to moving to the right places in the pocket and getting set and being able to go through your progressions

despite having a guy you know breaking in from the right guard or getting through on a blitz or something he talked about you know how McCarthy's movements there don't need to be quite as aggressive. Like he could slide instead of maybe taking a big jump forward. And, you know, he's talked about that posture in the pocket and, you know, getting wide. And today he broke down the leg whip and saying it's not necessarily a bad thing, but the violence of the leg whip, you know, can cause maybe too much velocity on the football, whereas maybe 80 to 85 percent velocity on some of these throws would get the job done. And so I feel like we've gotten this master class from Kevin O'Connell on how we should be watching quarterback mechanics.

And now I kind of find myself watching every quarterback and going, you know, I noticed that his posture was tall in the pocket. Like I am, I am now the quarterback expert. But I think it's interesting that O'Connell has not shied away from that. And I don't think that J.J. McCarthy has either. But today felt like a little bit of a different tone because I think that every young player comes into the NFL thinking, I'm about to dominate. And, you know, I don't really enjoy seeing people make fun of him saying

that the alter ego going out there is nine and not JJ and then everybody's thrown that in his face now or whatever. It's like, come on, guys. Every one of these players who gets drafted, their expectation for themselves is that they are going to go out there and be great. I remember Cam Bynum one time right after he got drafted. We're like, so, you know, kind of what are your expectations? expectations, that kind of thing for early in your career.

And Cam Bynum said, my expectations to be the greatest player of all time. And of course, the room was like, okay, let's get you on the field first there, brother. But he said, no, I'm serious. Like, that's where I set the bar for myself. That's my expectation. Like, I'm going out there every day thinking that that's the goal that I'm chasing. So with someone like J.J. McCarthy, you win a national championship. You rarely lose at any time in your life.

and we asked them about it along the way, hey, you know, the NFL is going to be harder, you're going to lose more, you're going to go through adversity, all those things. But there's no explaining it really how that's going to feel and what that's going to be like when it actually happens. And the way that he seems to be dealing with it is to be honest with himself about these things that need to change. And even he talked about, and this is sometimes like where McCarthy will get made fun of for being honest and, you know, I don't know.

When you win, everybody loves it. And if you don't win, everybody makes fun of you on the internet. So I guess that's how it's going to be. But he talked about, you know, even being out walking the dogs and like thinking his way through these different reps. And I think that's why the Vikings believed in J.J. McCarthy. And I don't know if I should say believed or believe when it comes to him. Certainly believed that he could come far enough.

with his mechanics and then possibly still believe in J.J. McCarthy after, you know, five starts is that he can assess what he is doing and understand the coachable points. And now it's about whether he can apply them consistently or not. Because if he can, then he's going to turn a corner. And if he cannot, then no matter how coachable he is, it will not matter. and that is the unfortunate reality of how sports work. But McCarthy talking today about how he had to relearn the quarterback position differently than he had ever learned before talking about rewiring things for the way he thought about playing quarterback.

So some interesting comments, I want to bring you a few of them. Jay, you talk about some of the stuff in you, like how hard is it to untrain your mind from 15 years? of learning one way and now having to learn a different way. It's really hard. You know, you're rewiring neurological pathways, and that's not something that happens overnight. So just understanding and giving myself that grace, that patience that, you know, I might not have it today,

but it's something I'm going to continue to strive after, day after day, rep after rep, and get to the place where we all want me to be. And yeah, it just comes with all those reps because, you know, anything new like tying your shoe takes time, And, you know, especially playing at the national, at the level of the national football league, you know, the urgency to it is something very important. But no matter what it is, it's going to take time. I mean, I think that really captures it, right?

That he himself has to be patient with himself. Otherwise, he's just going to get super frustrated and loses confidence and so forth. But he also recognizes there that you're in the NFL and the grace that you're talking. about doesn't really exist too much. The only plus side of this development with McCarthy is that they've gotten to a point at four and six where the expectations are now gone. And it's the weight of those is lifted. Now that is not a good thing.

Let's just be clear. That's not a good thing for the franchise or overall or for if you bought tickets to a Vikings game. Like those things are all bad. but for his own personal development to not go week to week where everyone's saying you have to win this game this week or you are letting down the entire franchise we've already gone past go with the competitive part of it and him being ready so now it feels like he can focus on the fundamentals and the techniques and all the things the feet and eyes and all the stuff they've been talking about more so than going out. trying to win the game. And I wondered after last week, I thought, I wonder if this loss to Chicago, which essentially put a nail in the coffin of the Vikings chances to make the playoffs, will help J.J. McCarthy in some way, because there have been too many times in these

games against the Ravens and against the Bears, where it felt like he was feeling the entire pressure of the weight of the world on him and trying to make plays that were unnecessary or trying to throw the ball, you know, through his wide receiver's soul. Like, there were just times where it looked like J.J. McCarthy is trying way too hard to carry all of that expectation with him. So again, not that I'm saying that that's a plus in any way, just that it might be a thing that ends up happening that now you can talk about it in a way of these next seven games are all about the progress from the fundamental elements.

So focus on those and don't focus so much on trying to save a season that was on the brink against the Ravens and against the Chicago Bears. So he talked more about when it came to the things that he has to do better, things that he has to change. It's, you know, one to three little things that I need to change about my game that is going to make a huge difference in the outcome of every single drive in the game. So, yeah, I feel like it's really close, but it all comes down on the consistency of the fundamentals and the little. little details. I would say, you know, just my posture. The way that I'm processing the defense in terms of I know what I'm getting, but let the rhythm of the play play out, you know, don't be getting to that answer too quick because,

you know, it's a timing and rhythm of the concepts and the defenses. And just decision making, just understanding, you know, the situation of the game, not just the concept that I'm trying to execute, understand. you know like for instance that first pick last game you know it's four minutes going into half we're on our own side of the territory and just understand you know what that risk factor should be and go from there so i think you really get it when mccarthy talks about why they would have been sold on him uh we will go through i'm sure a hundred million times before it's all over whatever way it goes with mccarthy the decision to draft him the the the the the

Darnold, Rogers, Daniel John, all that sort of stuff. But when you listen to McCarthy break down his own game and how he has a self-awareness about what he's been coached and about the situation that he made a mistake and understanding how to process that. And here's what I should have done. And here's what I'm going to do next time. When you listen to him, talk this way, you think this is really coachable stuff, right? and this is where I don't want to myself shut the door on J.J. McCarthy.

I think, you know, I've seen people say, well, he's just like Zach Wilson. I don't know about that. I think if you went back and listened to some Zach Wilson press conferences around the same time, you would maybe feel a little bit differently about making that comparison. And I didn't cover Zach Wilson, so I can't say to an every single day what it sounded like. but there were a few times that I heard things that he said that felt like, I don't even think this guy realizes that he's playing poorly or that he's made mistakes. I don't think there is any awareness about this player whatsoever.

And we've certainly seen that from a lot of guys through the years that didn't work out. It might be the number one thing that correlates with guys not getting better is a lack of self-awareness. And I was talking to Brian O'Neill, actually for a story about Donovan Jackson today, But he said something that was really interesting. He said that when you're evaluating yourself, your own tape, you have to do it in an objective way where you look for the points where you have to get better and not be emotional about it, whether it's, you know, embarrassed or overly excited that you made a good play. It's all about, you know, getting those technical things correct time and time again.

And if there's a mistake, then you have to fix it. And when you listen to McCarthy say, yeah, on that interception, I need to understand the situation better. The question for all of this is when he talks about posture in the pocket and I was watching a video from Tom Brady because I want to, I'm now like Mr. How to Throw a Football Guy. So I was watching one from Drew Breeze. I was watching one from Tom Brady on YouTube about Tom Brady and how he throws the football because I was very curious, well, what does Brady have to say about it? And that whole posture thing is really important. I mean, especially when we see McCarthy slide a little too far and get his feet too far wide and then, you know, his front

shoulder goes up and the ball flies away on him, especially when he's throwing to the left side. This is something Nate Tice pointed out on Twitter as well with some of those fundamental elements. And so I think that what you hear there from McCarthy is I understand. I know the way. I see the path. And the rhythm part of the offense, when you watch back the all 20 And I saw JTO Sullivan's doing another breakdown and just I pray for J.T on this one because the last one seemed to drive him pretty crazy. I think this one might be worse. But you can see where if you're running an out and up, if you're Jordan Addison, the ball has to be out before he's up. He is in his, this is just how fast the league is.

And when you talk about the timing of everything, it's so. so, so important that he goes out and as he's breaking, the ball needs to be in the air and he needs to be turning as the ball is in the air, not already out of his break, turning up field and then throwing it. Or you have to see Justin Jefferson running a deep cross, you have to see him breaking and the ball has to be released, not wait till he gets 10 yards on the guy. But those are college to the NFL things that a lot of quarterback struggle with. And it, Feels like McCarthy, when he's being taught those things, is processing them and understands them, but he has to go out and do it. And watching a quarterback try to develop himself in real time is painful, I think, for everybody watching.

And sometimes you see flashes and you go, wow, why doesn't you just do that all the time? And so I think that if those two things did not exist, if we didn't see the self-awareness, the coachability from McCarthy, and if we didn't see the flashes from McCarthy, then I might be in the same camp as a lot of you who want to call it on him right now. But I can't get there because of that stuff.

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Don't miss out on this limited time offer, Uncommon Goods, we're all out of the ordinary. It's very new. You know, coming in here, I was taught how to play quarterback in a very different way. way. And that's, you know, expected going into the league, going into any new team, any new system. But at the end of the day, you know, it was really just the injuries that I felt like, you know, kind of took away all those reps and the constant repetition to make those a habit and make them concrete like K.O. talks about. But, yeah, I feel like, you know, it's just the repetitions, you know, how many times could I go home and every time I take the dogs out,

I'm getting, you know, 10 drops each time, little things like that where you just keep building the ribs. I have a big dog, as some of you have seen, a greyhound, and he loves to circle around me. So if I was doing drops, I would just fall down on him. He doesn't understand space that humans need to stand up or walk or anything like that. So apparently JJ's dogs are maybe a little more well-behaved than my greyhound. But there again, you hear him talking about how he came in here and is asked to play quarterback differently than the past. Now, that is true for 100% of quarterbacks. If you play quarterback in the NFL like you did in college, you will be terrible.

Like, there's just no way to simulate it. The hash is being so far apart gives you tons of space to wait until wide receivers are running wide, freaking open before you actually make your decision. all NFL offenses since Don Cori-El was around are based on timing. I know I've seen this, you know, that's complicated, it's hard to get and things like that. I think that's probably true that it takes a lot of work to get it. But I also think that that has to be the case or you probably just cannot operate. I remember Mike Zimmer talking about this, where he would get asked about,

college defenses and college offenses, well, can you do this concept in the NFL? And he said basically the windows are too small. Like a lot of the things that happened in college, bubble screens is one of them where the guys are just too fast. You'd love to throw a bubble screen all the time in the NFL, but they'll just tackle you. And so a lot of it has to be rooted in. One guy moves one step and the ball has to be in a certain spot, but you have to believe it and you have to trust in it.

And that's really hard to do at full speed. Justin Jefferson runs like 20 miles an hour. So you have to be really thinking about the ball going to a space that you don't see Justin Jefferson there or open yet. It's just hit it, trust it, release it, which is going to take a time if he's going to get it. That's why this happened. Now, the bigger picture is you can't. can't go back in time if you're the Vikings, you can't go back to the off season and know

that he was not going to have this down. And when he's talking this way, I think it is admitting how far behind he really has been. And I don't think there's any denying it. But I think previously it was like, oh, it's going to happen. It's going to happen. And then this last game, there were so many instances of making mistakes when it came to the mechanics of it, that whether it's O'Connell or whether it's McCarthy, you've gone back to almost, this is square one, this is seven games of quarterback development, and you're going to try to get him to grow as much as you possibly can. And that's the world that you have to live in right now,

which is why I said, hey, keep putting it all on his plate and see how far he can get with that. So the fact that he has the self-awareness about him, I think is really, really important to trying to turn a corner. But also when you're talking like this, rewiring and it's all very new, the one part where I do hesitate to say, oh, okay, well, all right, I guess we got to just readjust everything for ourselves is the fact that he really is not a rookie. And the reps that were missed due to the injury are absolutely important.

I mean, if you were trying to learn a new golf swing, and you started learning it, and then you broke your arm and couldn't swing a golf club for six months, and then you go out and you're like, how did I do that again? At the same time, you know, footwork and all that stuff, it's all part of the learning process of the offense, which he started learning at the beginning of 2004 and had a lot of reps doing and then OTA's mini camp, offseason training, training camp, all those things. and now five games, and we're talking about it as if he just got here. This sounds like when it's rewiring and learning very new office,

I mean, this sounds like a rookie in his first mini camp, not somebody who's five weeks in and has expectations to win on their shoulders and needs to take enormous steps forward by the end of this year in order to prove to the team that, hey, it is him that, that needs to be the quarterback going forward. So it feels like we are so far away that in seven games, it would be very hard to get to that point where we would all say to each other, it clicked and he got it.

But if there is a little bit more consistency, then you could maybe start making a case. If you get some wins like this week against Green Bay and you build some confidence and he's not feeling down in the dumps talking about how he's got every wrong at this point and he's rewiring and everything else a lot can change in a couple of weeks in one way or another the packers in seattle seahawks also have the capability of breaking a young quarterback as well they both have great defenses they both have some of the best players in the NFL these are two very very very vital weeks for j j mccarthy and his development so i guess

you can read it one one way or the other you can read like okay i personally i think this is good to, if you can understand what you're being coached and what you need to do, it gives you a better chance to go out there and do it. There have been plenty of young players before who had this attitude of like, you know, I got this. It's totally fine. And the coaches would be like, well, no, actually, you need to do X, Y, and Z. No, no, no, I'm good.

I've always done this my whole life. I'm good. And those players fail 100% of the time. When it comes to learning the quarterback position, being open to listening to these things fundamentally that KOC is talking about knowing what you need to do to get there and it's just a matter of getting there it gives you a better chance. Also did want to throw out there today, it's pro football talk, you know, Mike Florio,

trying to get ahead of this thing I think is already brought up Mack Jones. So people have asked me about that. I think that we are approaching the conversation about who will be competing for next year. But it's also November 19th. And we are a very long way away from the end of the season. Mac Jones sure makes sense. That would have to be a trade. But I can't really say much more about it.

I mean, football is so crazy, right? Like so many things can change so fast that if, I mean, if we start talking about this, like now, that conversation is going to change so much. And it could change for J.J. McCarthy making huge strides forward. And then we're all having different opinions on him in six weeks. or it could go much worse, and we're all talking about, well, you know, it's got to be who knows what for, you know, the next option. So I don't want to quite go down that road just yet. In terms of the injury report, and then we'll get to your questions, comments, reactions to what J.J. McCarthy had to say,

Will Fries didn't practice today. That's worth keeping an eye on. Still no Jonathan Grenard. They could really use him. And that was it for the Vikings. Ryan Kelly is back and the Vikings have a chance this week. He's not, they didn't say for sure that he's playing, but they have a chance this week with Ryan Kelly returning,

practicing in full to have their entire offensive line for the first time all season, which is crazy. And Brian O'Neill, we were talking to him and that was presented to him. And he kind of looked and went, wait, did we ever, no, no, we actually have never had our full starting offensive line. So that's at least an accomplishment there. And with Ryan Kelly, I will continue to say it's concerning. He's had such a great career.

You worry about anybody who's had one concussion and multiple concussions. You really, really worry. It sounds like they've done a lot of work on this when it comes to the team, second opinions, changing helmets, using the Guardian cap. And then from here, this is a situation where you just, for my seat, just hold your breath. Like, I just, I hope, man, I hope. I hope this is okay because he's had a great career

and you don't want to see any other problems with Kelly. I mean, he loves football so much. I get it. And he's a great player and he sure had it. The first few weeks did not look like he had lost the step at all to me in those first couple weeks. So a potential on the field, a potential upgrade there for them. And major credit to Blake Bram,

for the way he played over the last few weeks. On the Packers side, Carl Brooks, Nate Hobbs, Josh Jacobs, Quay Walker, all sitting out and then a bunch of guys were limited in practice. So we don't have a good sense for that yet. Jacobs is the one to watch. Hot take, I think that they would be better without him. Three quarters of a Josh Jacobs is probably not going to be as good as a starter. So we will keep an eye on that to see if he is going to be.

starting in this game. And I think also sometimes they lean on him too much at times, where they believe in Josh Jacobs more than they should in the running game because he had such a good year last year. So let's get to your questions and comments. A reminder that Fandul question of the day, the Vikings are six and a half point underdogs on Fandul to Green Bay. Would it change your mind if they won for the playoff run or the season being back on?

or would you still be very skeptical? So we'll get to all your answers on that momentarily. All right, let's get into your questions, thoughts, and comments. I shot you 99, says, How does KOC navigate the locker room confidence if JJ continues to struggle? I think it's too late to make a change of quarterback to make a difference, but could get so bad that there has to be a change. Or is it simply a case of suck it up and ride or die?

I think it's that second one at this point. Now, if they were, there's a different world here where say that Carson Wentz comes back to beat the Pittsburgh Steelers, say that the Vikings beat the Chicago Bears, and JJ's playing like that, and they're six and four. And then you're halfway into the Green Bay game, and it's six to three Packers, and JJ has three interceptions and is seven for 17 passing. I think if you're on that sideline, you're looking around going, can we try John Wolford? Can we try Max Brosber? Right? Like anything maybe to get this to work?

Because the defense is keeping you in the game and he's losing it for us. That went away last week. That went away with Devin Duvernay's kick return. We'll never forget it, my friends. Devin Duvernais kick return, which Matt Daniels basically said that a child could have gotten 50 yards on that one with the size of the gap that was left by the Vikings return unit. That, to me, sent the discussion of, do you bench him? You got to do what's right for the veterans, sent it swirling down the toilet.

That's gone. If you were a team that was right there and you're a number eight seed and you got to win two out of the next three and your quarterback is falling apart and you're winning a couple of games on, will Riker's 60-yard field goals and all of a sudden the turnover spickett comes back on and oh wow and this could still happen I guess it just seems very unlikely now if they lose to green bay then their percentage chance to make the playoffs is going to be truly on life support if it isn't already you would have to win to get in the playoffs now six out of seven and with two more, no, three more games in the division and a trip to Seattle mixed in.

And it's no guarantee that you beat the Giants. It's no guarantee you beat Dallas that Dallas team played really well the other night. They have a great offense. Who's guarding C.D. Lamb and George Pickens. And guess what? They're going to be at home so they won't stay out until seven in the morning partying or whatever the heck it was that happened to get them suspended for the first drive. So there's no guarantees that for any of these games that they're going to win. Six out of seven seems like a really, really tall task.

If they threaten that, then maybe we're having that discussion. But I think everyone understands that whether it's, you know, the captain who's 30 years old or rookies on the team, like they get it. You're four and six. You just got to keep playing it out with J.J. McCarthy and see where that takes you. Kurt Plupy says, do you think Sean Payton was telling the truth after the draft when he said he artificially inflated McCarthy's value just to screw us and secure Bo Nix? I've thought that he's coping, but I've always thought he's coping, but yeah, I mean, I don't know.

Like, it's hard to tell with Sean Payton because he's such a trash talker that that might be something he just sort of said or maybe they put it out there, tried to leak it to, you know, make the I mean, the Vikings traded up one spot and didn't have to give up a whole heck of a lot. So it's not like they totally screwed the Vikings. The Vikings had a chance to draft either J.J. McCarthy or Bo Nix in that spot. Would they have picked Pennix? I don't know. Now Pennix is seriously hurt.

And that was a real concern when he was coming out in the NFL, the injuries. And that was the biggest knock on him was the worry about the knees. and then here he is having a serious knee injury that could put him out for a lot of the offseason and, you know, maybe regress his, where he's gotten to at this point, which is, you know, pretty good, but not as far as maybe they wanted him to be so far. So let's say that they wanted penics. They, you know, that he gets drafted by the Falcons. Okay, so you've got a choice between McCarthy and Nicks.

And Kevin O'Connell went to meet with both. players and he decided on the guy that he wanted to go with. I know the entire organization went on these trips and there was a lot of discussion and it was not just Kevin O'Connell, but for me, you know, he's the guy that's making that call the same way as Sean Payton. If Sean Payton said no, then the Broncos would not have drafted Bo Nix. I guarantee you that I feel the same way about O'Connell. So he picks J.J. McCarthy and not Bo Nix goes against the college statistics, but goes

with the younger kid, maybe more moldable to his offense, maybe felt like the downfield passing in the intermediate areas would be a lot better with J.J. McCarthy. I think that we could still see that the potential for how he throws the football. Well, they need him to stop throwing it so hard. You can see the difference in how the ball travels through the air between the two quarterbacks. I mean, I think with Bo Nix, he has not been that great of an intermediate passer. A lot of it's short, a lot of it's avoiding sacks. Then every once in a while, you're trying to hit something over the top, which he has not been particularly great at. I don't know that Bo Nix in this offense looks the same way.

It's really hard to tell. But I think that Denver knew that they were not going to get any of the top five and they were going to have to take whoever if they were picking a quarterback. So, yeah, I mean, it's, it sounds like just Sean Payton being Sean Payton to me. But, you know, Bo Nix has turned out to be, I think, a very good quarterback, but not by any means a great quarterback. It sort of looks like Rex Grossman with the 05 bears to me, where you got a pretty good athlete who can make some plays and you're trying to avoid mistakes and you have an unbelievable defense. And this year, that can win in the way that the NFL has shaped

the environment. But if that's the maximum of what Bo Nix can be, I think the Vikings looked for a guy with the higher ceiling. And that's why they picked J.J. McCarthy. But I'm sure they had plenty of reasons of why they decided to do that. But, you know, I mean, Sean Payton's going to be Sean Payton. Look, they're nine and two. They could say whatever they want. I know that that was said a while ago, but they're nine and two. Goofster in an away game and the Packers.

So Vikings buy double digits. Yeah, you're right. J.J. McCarthy has been better in the away game so far. 27, 13. I mean, look, I wouldn't be surprised that the Vikings were able to win. a game like this because, you know, the, the line there for sure is based on the quarterbacks. Jordan Love at this point, his career is very much better than J.J. McCarthy. But the rest of the two teams, I don't think that's the case. I think if you go position by

position, who's got the better offensive line, the better backfield, the better receivers, D-line is close. If Grenard plays, it's close. Secondary is probably to the Packers. But overall, the Vikings defense is still very good. I mean, and the kicker, the Vikings do have a better kicker. Like every other position, you've got a pretty good case that the Vikings are right there or better than the Packers. So you could see it. And anytime it's the division games, that's the thing.

The division games are just, they're tight and sometimes they're weird, like we saw from last week, but even with Detroit, you know, the other team so well inside and out. O'Connell and Jeff Hathley have gone against each other a couple of times. Now, Flores has gone against Jordan Love and mostly gotten the better of Jordan Love overall, which gives you a chance. So, I mean, I could see it. T. Vikes, I think it will feel like a step in the right direction. That's all this season can be the rest of the way.

Stepping Stones in the right direction. K.O. sounded a bit dejected today. Am I wrong? So I was trying to think of a way to describe the tone. because it has changed a little bit throughout the season. At one point, there was a little more of a defensive, I think, tone about the whole thing. But I just, I think that that had more to do with people suggesting that there was a soft benching or something like that. I don't think they particularly love that.

But just in general, I thought maybe dejected isn't quite the right word. but did he have the same energy as if they had beaten the Bears? No, I think everybody took that loss very, very hard because the Bears game represented the final frontier of, you can make a season of this, you can chase the playoffs. And if they had gotten a win there, I think that the percentage to get in the playoffs would have gotten to like 30-something percent, but you get there and you start talking yourself into it.

If McCarthy makes one more play, if a receiver doesn't drop a pass, if you stop a kick return, then, all right, yes, there's certainly wild concerns about McCarthy and his mechanics, but you're still in the race. You could still coach it up. You could still have some defensive game plans. Get a win you're not supposed to and you're right in this conversation. Nobody in the vaunted NFC North is perfect. Chicago's probably not even good. and Detroit, every time they play a good team, they lose, and, you know, Green Bay is battered. And, like, you start talking yourself into that.

That's very exciting, I'm sure. And then you give up the kick return, give up the field goal, and the wind goes right out of those sales. And I thought that's how I would describe Kevin O'Connell today, like, not dejected as necessarily of just the wind went out of the sales last week. And it's hard to have the same vibe, I guess. when you're coming into that press conference after that happens after you get to four and six as you would if you had gotten a win there so uh yeah ron says their fate was decided against the bears i mean that's that's pretty much how it feels it's not over till it's over but that's really how it feels and i think that's when you saw you know o'connell's reaction on the sideline after the kick return i mean everybody kind of felt it right there like this just this is one of those not to be type of seasons the turnovers have gone away the kid wasn't far enough along, the early season injuries, the whole Carson Wentz thing, and then you get a chance to get it back on the rails, and this happens. Yep, it's, it's been a tough one.

Kerplupi says, can I say I become a big Tom Brady as an announcer fan? KOC mentioned gaining value from meeting with him today. I feel like him having, feel like a guy like him mentoring the league isn't a bad thing. So I don't see the broadcasts and until the playoffs when the Vikings aren't in it because, you know, I'm at the game. So the guys who are doing noon games, I don't see them. But then even the 4 o'clock games, I'm usually in the press box still working, whether it's doing the postgame podcast or writing. So I'm watching most of it on mute. And then I hear, you know, Toreko and Chris Collinsworth and Joe Buck and Troy Aikman.

They're pretty much the only ones I see all year unless the vice. Vikings are playing on Monday. So I've had a very small sample. I liked Tom Brady last year in the playoffs. I thought he was very insightful in the playoffs. The Washington game against Detroit was probably some of the better color analysis I've heard from him in the small sample. But I like where he's at as a color analyst.

I think he's always going to stay away for being overly critical. But at some point last year, at least this is from what I've just seen and how it's been talked about. It sounds like he kind of got the picture of if you just explain stuff that you see, it's probably more than most people see. So just do that. And I think he's gotten pretty good at that. I also think that the world just wanted to hate Tom Brady because he took Greg Olson's spot. And that's not actually Tom Brady's fault that the network made that decision. But Greg Olson, from what I've heard, is really excellent too. I just don't have big takes on broadcasters because I don't hear them

a whole heck of a lot. So I'm glad that Brady was good. Last Samurai says the Vikings would have won both the last two games with at least average QB play. The fact that McCarthy can't even come close to that is downright sad. I can't believe we let Sam go for

this. Right. And, you know, that is, I think, the feeling that is lingering over everybody. We talk about anybody's body language, anybody's energy, that kind of thing in the organization is it just, it does feel just kind of sad that this did not work out the way that they expected it to.

You go through training camp, I think when they got to the end of training camp. And this is why every year I talk about, hey, these are the years that I was right. And here's the years I missed. This is a miss for me. And I think it's a miss for a lot of people of how it looks coming out of training camp. Because this team, to me, looked like they should win 11 games. And that's how many I picked them to win. end up being wrong. Last year, I think I picked maybe 10 and I look genius because most of the league was

picking six for the Vikings, you know, but that was also based on training camp and sometimes you're right and sometimes you're wrong, I guess. But I think that this team and the players and the leadership had very high expectations. And I know that the fans did. And I know that we, after seeing them in training camp, set the bar very high. And to have the feeling, and this is where it's hard, This is where, like, this is the unfortunate truth about the NFL is that it always comes down to the quarterback. The reason why the Jaguars are willing to pay Trevor Lawrence $50 million is because if you have below average to poor quarterback play, you will just lose and lose and lose. And I think that he's not very good. But sometimes you'll see that of how could they pay this quarterback?

And look, we went through this with Kirk, right? Who are you going to get if Kirk isn't your quarterback? And, you know, my always answer was, well, you're really kind of winning seven to nine to ten games each year. So, I mean, I guess this doesn't really change a lot if you fail with a young quarterback. And I would stick with that, that failing with a swing is still better than being stuck in purgatory. But you could see why teams choose purgatory. You could see why Dallas says we would rather pay Dak Prescott because, man, if we move on from him and draft the wrong guy, everybody gets fired or in Jerry Jones's case, he just, I don't know, feels bad or whatever. But in most organizations, people get fired if you end up drafting the wrong quarterback, which we still don't know yet about J.J. McCarthy, but you see how the line played better, the running backs were good, the receivers were open, the defense did its best.

And with average quarterback play, you end up going to an O and you're six and four and you feel really good. I mean, is it too much to say that they win both of those games with healthy Carson Wentz, the way he had played early in the season? I think they probably do. And that's hard to deal with if you're in that locker room or, you know, I guess if you had high expectations for fans of thinking that this team was going to be good because it really does come down to this position did not play well enough. and was not ready to take this on, but they thought he was going to be, there's no real way to know until you get out there, which doesn't take any of the criticism off them,

but that's just the truth is you really don't know. And there's so many examples of that throughout NFL history where, I mean, do you think Dick Vermeal knew that Kurt Warner was going to win the Super Bowl? Like, of course not. I mean, the 49ers tried to talk Tom Brady into coming back in 2023 and playing for them

because they didn't know about Brock Purdy. So that's how it always is. But if you miss, especially when, you know, Sam Darnold plays as well as he has. Not last week. I know no one needs to tell me he was bad last week

and into playoffs. I'm very aware. But I think if you were going back with these results, you would do something different. Yep. I agree with that. Let's see. Ben says,

I'd at least like take the Vikings of the points. Look who the Packers have lost or almost lost to. Not great teams. JJ has somehow played better on the road. Packers banged up and this team loves to zag. Oh, that's for sure. Yeah, right when we think it's the Godfather three thing, right? Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.

They have a way of doing that over the years. Vikings with the points would be my pick 100%. The Packers are not blowing people out. And I think McCarthy, with all this discussion about the fundamentals and everything else, this feels like a lock-in type of week, feels like it gets some things together kind of week. But even if they score 17 points, they might have a chance to win just with the overall ineptitude of the Packers offense. Jordan Love played really well last week and they had to survive the Giants.

I don't think this Packers team is very high right now. J.P. says Chris Sims had a helpful film breakdown on unbuttoned. He has not given up on JJ. I don't think anybody should give up on JJ right now. It's the natural state of things in the conversation world, whether that is social media or on television. And I appreciate Chris Sims for being rational when it comes to that to push as far extreme as you can because that's what gets attention, right? If you have opinions that are kind of hovering in the middle, like think about, you know, the spectrum and they're hovering in the middle of maybe you're slightly optimistic and you say, yeah, you know, I want to see these next seven games before I decide.

Well, that doesn't move the needle. And maybe if you're slightly on the pessimistic side, you say, well, you know, it just doesn't look very good and I'm really worried. those opinions get drowned out by the extreme of I know McCarthy will turn it around like the hell you do I mean you just sound to me you sound like a fool and I think for most of my audience you do but that gets a lot of people going gets the debate going everything else or if you're on the other side of I know McCarthy's a bust

it's over same sort of thing it moves the needle but it's not the right way to look at this he is processing some things mentally at the line of scrimmage that I think are good. And he's making some plays with his legs that I think are good. He has the requisite arm strength to make throws that are extremely good. And he has shown touch throws at times that have been plus plus. And we came out of that game against the Lions of, hey, like all those tools were on display today.

Now it's just about massaging those out and eveninging those, the inconsistencies out. And he didn't do that. And I wonder if even there was a little bit of we beat the Lions were championship contender. Like in the young J.J. McCarthy mind. Like even the nine stuff probably, you know, and I have no problem with it. But in hindsight, like maybe a little bit much for one win, right? And they always talk about, hey, don't get too high, too low. And then it's one win.

And he's, I'm nine super quarterback. You're like, yeah, that sounds like a kid may be a little too high. I don't know. So, you know, I think. when it comes to all of that, though, like we've seen the flashes of stuff that he could do. We've seen the intelligence. This is what I'm talking about today, the self-awareness that is really important for a young quarterback. There's things there to work with.

And whether it comes down to can you actually fix the accuracy, can you actually fix the rhythm, the timing? I don't think any of us knows that. There's quarterbacks who have and there's quarterbacks who haven't. And which is he more like? Now, I brought up Alex Smith as a guy who did. Justin Fields is a guy who didn't. Justin Fields had a brilliant arm, but could never really see it,

could never really make it work timing-wise. And he took a lot of sacks. McCarthy had been taking sacks. In this last game, he got rid of the ball more, although it was incredible protection. But Fields was a guy just a good example of someone who never could really figure out and still hasn't the timing of an offense.

And the only time that it actually worked for him was in Pittsburgh when they kind of ran like a read option type of thing. So, you know, with McCarthy, it's going to go one way or the other. He's his cringes rush. You know, but the thing about Russell Wilson is that everybody loved it when he was winning and then hated it when he was losing, which will always be the case. And I give J.J. McCarthy credit for never being afraid to be himself when he's asked questions that like he's going to give you the answer.

answers. And sometimes people are not going to like the answers or they're going to pick on him or whatever else. Stuff like calling yourself nine, uh, harmless to me, harmless to me. Uh, but yeah, I mean, that's what I'm saying is like when if he had gone out and won the next two games have been awesome, uh, people would have tattooed the number, the like written number nine on their face. And if you think this is a joke like the, the, the Nas read thing, people were actually tattooing Nas Reid's name on themselves. Uh, that's, that's, what happens when you win. If the Timberwolves or a 20 win basketball team, I promise you, no one is tattooing anybody's name on themselves. So, like, yeah, was the whole Nasree thing

kind of corny? Like, oh, everyone just likes saying the guy's name. Sure it was, but it's awesome and fun when you win. And when you lose it, it all sounds ridiculous. So I wouldn't, you know, I don't get into that too much. I think he should just be himself and whatever works for him, works for him. Ben says KOC saying mechanics are good in practice. JJ doesn't have many NFL game reps. Let's see his this year and next and see if he gets the 10,000 reps required and start to carry it over to games.

Well, so there's part of that I agree with, which is this will probably take a full offseason. And after the behavior of his quarterback coach, I suggest he stay in Minnesota and find a Viking coach to work with in the offseason if you're allowed to do that or get a maybe a list of approved methods to work on and focus on those instead. So, but your point is, and look, I'm not, of course, I'm not anti-Cubi guru, but maybe just pick a good one. A lot of times that's what guys will do is they will work with someone. I think what Jordan Palmer has done work with Sam Darnold and maybe Josh Allen.

I don't know everyone's QB guru. Quincy Avery works with Max Brosmer and has worked with Jalen Hertz and a number of other. Like those are the guys that get, I think, a lot of the top clients. And usually what happens is you get together with somebody like that and focus on very specific things for an entire off season. J.J. McCarthy was not able to do that last year. And he alluded to that. So that's something he needs to do at the end of. this season but the NFL wheels keep turning you can't just wait forever for him to come around

you just keep getting 10,000 reps which is I always thought was bogus the whole 10,000 hours thing but you know usually takes more than that I think but I don't know I don't know where that I know where it comes from and I read that book and I I don't know anyway not the point So getting those reps in to make it like neurologically work for you or whatever when it comes to rehashing or revamping your throwing motion and your footwork and all that is usually an off-season thing where you're spending morning tonight, working on that to the point where it's really fused in. And for some people it works and for some people it does not work. And we don't know which way that's going to go. But the Vikings are going to have high expectations next year and the pressure is turned. up because if this season ends up seven and ten for them, that's not where it was supposed

to be. And I'm sure goalposts will get moved. I don't set the expectations for this team. The ownership does. And with all their, the front office does. And with all the movements that they made, this was not where they expected to be. They could say if they want to, which they haven't. I'm not putting words in their mouth.

But I don't want to hear at any point this was a development year. It was not. You were supposed to win and you know that. So I don't want to hear that at any point. And if I do, there's going to be some rant, I think, because then history will be rewritten. So I would advise them not to do that in public is to ever move the needle or the goalposts of what the expectations were coming into this season.

We all know it was to be in the playoffs. Nobody said McCarthy has to be Jill Montana. I saw that on Twitter. I was like, no one said that. no one said that no one said j j mccarthy had to be joe montana no one ever said he has to be a perfect flawless complete product right away no one said that but the expectation was that he was going to be supported well enough to work his way through the rocky moments and be in the playoffs we all know that so if you miss the playoffs the pressure gets ramped up tenfold which means you can't if

If it keeps going like this, you can't just say, hey, take your time, get your 10,000 game reps or whatever, and it'll all be fine. Like, that's, that's not how this works. There's too many guys. You can fool them once, but not again when it comes to veteran players and the ownership of how high they're going to set that bar for next year. Next year is you better be in the playoffs, which means you, you better have, if it doesn't change, you better have somebody else there.

So that's the hard part about McCarthy because he didn't do this to himself. If J.J. McCarthy was playing for the Cleveland Browns right now, I mean, they're making excuses for Shadur Sanders looking horrible. But like, what does it matter? There's no reason to be worried about that. Like, whether they win or not, who cares? And, you know, the Vikings are not in that spot. If he was playing for Tennessee, then they would be in, or the New York Jets.

They would be in a spot to be like, hey, he did some things we liked. And now he's got three more years. Even the Chicago Bears, it was like, well, Caleb Williams wasn't very good in year one. And let's see what happens in year two. There's no real discussion. This team, though, needs to have something else if it continues to look like this. And that's why it's hard to develop a young quarterback because ideally you're like, yeah, three years. Some guys maybe four.

We'll see. No one's got that long in the NFL. So he's going to have to make some big strides, I think, by the end of this year, in order to be in a position where we're saying, okay, he's the guy, be patient. That's got to happen in these next seven games. Is it fair? Not really, but that's the life in the National Football League. I mean, you just can't, you can't ask Justin Jefferson to go out there

and just have balls flying over his head time and time and time again. you just can't not not in his prime not when he expects to go to the hall of fame and put his numbers on his you know hall of fame bust resume and all that sort of thing he expects to try to win in the playoffs he doesn't have a playoff win yet my god think about that how good he's been he doesn't have a playoff win yet i mean you can't if this doesn't get better you can't expect him to go into next year with no backup plan no options like they did this year. Ben says, how would they have known he wasn't ready? He looks good in practice, so they assume there's one would that it would translate to the games. You know, yes, that's true. Yes,

that's true. I also am not comfortable with just a free pass. If you're four and six and your quarterback, I mean, your team quarterback rating is one of the worst in the league and your defense has been fine, flawed, but fine, your kicker's been great, your punter's been great, your return units been good except for one big mistake and some penalties but you know the point they've been good enough to win games and one position has completely sunk your season I'm not going to make the excuse well it's it's cool because he look good in practice I can't do that like that just does not that's just not sit with me like that if if and I saw it I know he look good in practice I believe them I'm totally I'm totally understanding of what you're saying

and I'm over there watching practice after practice thinking, like, this should work. And it hasn't. And when it doesn't, then you didn't do it right. If it, that's the thing that drives me crazy about process versus results, that whole discussion. It's like, well, actually, it is the results that matter. Oh, well, it's the process. Yeah, that's great. The process is great.

And I get your process. And I generally agreed with your process somewhat about going over to McCarthy. I had questions. But when they went to McCarthy, I said, well, I thought maybe they'd bring back Sam Darnold, but I thought, well, that means Kevin O'Connell has seen enough with J.J. McCarthy. And it's his call. And there it is. And when it doesn't work, it's on him and it's on them.

And I'm not a fire people. That would be idiotic to be talking about firing people. But in terms of, like, oh, well, they couldn't have seen it coming. I can't do that. I can't give free passes, not for this, not when people paid how much money to go and sit in that stadium, expecting this team to be in the playoffs, not when these fans have been this patient with a team that has how many playoff wins since I moved here in 2016, one, no, wait, two, two playoff wins in the last decade, I'm not going to be like, well, you look good practice, it's all, you know, not their fault. if it goes wrong, then you should have done something different. So anyway, none of that is to put it on JJ and say, well, you know, he's a bust and he'll never be good and, you know, everything, I'm not, I'm, that's not what I'm saying.

I'm not, I'm not saying that I didn't agree with the overall direction. I did, uh, in general of drafting a quarterback and putting him in to this position. I'm not saying he didn't look good in practice. He did. I think everyone inside the locker room would say he looked good in practice. But if you go four and six, you didn't do it right. That's how it works. There's no, oh, well, it's okay.

He looked good in practice. Well, you know, one thing you could say is Sam Howell was the backup. Probably could have done better than that. Just in case he wasn't ready. So I just get a little bit itchy when it comes to that. Now we got our Josh Allen comp. We got a ban. That's ban on the show.

No Josh Allen comps. If you give me John Elway, Josh Allen, or Peyton Manning, I'm not reading it. It's banned from the show. Those are number one overall picks, greatest athletes of all time. John Elway won 12 games by his second year. we're out on those,

those comps don't make it lick a sense. The Colts were the worst team in the league. This is not the worst team in the league. The Broncos were horrible. This is not the horrible team. This is a good team. Let's see.

Josh says his mind is right. He has the physical abilities. It's been five games. Not sure how anyone could be out at this point.