Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - JJ McCarthy will return to practice -- What happens next? (Part 2)

Episode Date: October 7, 2025

Matthew Coller talks about Kevin O'Connell's comments regarding JJ McCarthy coming back to practice and what he wants to see from his QB. Plus 3 other players will return. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This episode of Purple Insider is presented by Fandool. So here we are, the Purple Insider Roundtable with Brian Murphy and Manny Hill presented by our friends at Fanduil. Well, how about we start there, Manny, with the Vikings get to three and two. And where their playoff odds are right now, plus 260, Fanduel still does not have them as a playoff team. but how differently do you feel that they got to three and two and knowing now that Blake Cashman is coming back. Donovan Jackson is coming back to this team. And while we don't know for sure who the quarterback is, I'm guessing that if they had lost to Cleveland, those playoff

odds would be way worse than plus 260 on our friends at Fandu. Yeah, I think getting all those key players back is going to be a huge boost. I think on the defensive side. And you know, getting someone like Donovan Jackson back in, I think is really going to help matters because, again, we talk about when guys come back from injury, how it kind of can have a domino effect on everybody else because it can kind of move everybody else into a position where they need to be. So, you know, you were talking about the run defense and, you know, how big is it going to be to get somebody like Blake Ashman back to get somebody, you know, whenever Andrew Van Ginkle is able to come back, that. that's going to be a huge boost because obviously they're both terrific players, but it's also going to be able to move other players, maybe, you know, more role players back into positions and roles that they, you know, are better suited for and where they can really shine and thrive. So, you know, getting Blake Ashman back as sort of that green dot linebacker is really going to help Eric Wilson because it's going to move him into a spot where

that might be better suited for him. Now he's played admirably in, in place of Blake Cashman. He's had some really nice moments, but I think getting him back into a specific spot is really going to help and give a boost. And I'm also thinking about, you know, and maybe they have the Vikings odds kind of low still because of, you know, the meat of this schedule is still to come here after the buy. But maybe, and I know I'm going to pick the schedule tonight, it might be a little different based on what we've seen with some of these other teams that are coming up on the schedule where it might not be as daunting a task for the Vikings going forward, especially if they can get a lot of those guys back and healthy.

There's a lot of moving parts, Murph. So tell me what you are thinking coming out of the Vikings win against the Browns. You know, week six buys never sound good because it seems too early when they come out. I think this is really perfectly timed. I think psychologically, mentally, you know, being sort of barrenuant. overseas for 10 or 11 days, watching your season kind of lurch week to week, not really knowing what's on the other end and how we got here. And there's glimpses of, I kind of think I, you know, I wrote this, even though last

night off the game, it was yesterday's win kind of told us everything and nothing about the team, which is we see how they can be successful and it's pretty narrow right now. So it may not really matter who the quarterback is, but we see them flawed. And we see them flawed pretty good. And five games is a pretty good sample size to get a sense. I'm not saying this is the team that we're going to notice in December. But it looks like they were constructed to win now. And they have uncertainty at the quarterback position.

And they have uncertainty at the quarterback position because they have so much uncertainty on the offensive line. So their quarterbacks haven't been protected well. They've had to change how they get rid of the ball and the schemes. and, you know, Wentz, who was unemployed as of August 23rd, you know, I think he's done admirable. It should be noted. He's won two of the three games that he started, including two overseas games. So this, everybody needs a week off to take a breath. Of course, it's, it's a buy. So it's going to be another week to suck the oxygen out of the room about what's going to happen at quarterback.

But I just feel like for the club itself, you know, they need this week to just unplug right now. Now, you may want a buy, you know, later in November practically because of the wear and tear of a season. But I just think mentally they have a chance to really reset because it's just been an unpredictable first five weeks that is exposed and kind of left us wanting to know really exactly who they are. Yeah, but I think that this is a really good point that both of you are making, which is that we just really, like you said, we just don't really know who this team is yet because we haven't seen. seen the full version of them. And I've got to think that that's around the corner. Now, I'm still concerned about Andrew Van Ginkle and his long term with the neck injury, not getting an update from O'Connell today, specifically on him, kind of made

me wonder where that's going to be. Trust me, we'll talk to O'Connell again. I got a few notes about that. Like, we will. But with him being out and it being unclear with the neck injury, that's a concern. But aside from that, you know O'Neill's coming back. you know Jackson's coming back. The other guy is Aaron Jones, where we're not quite sure.

But Zay Scott, outside of a fumble, has done very well for them filling in. We're going to get mostly who the Minnesota Vikings are coming out of the by, playing against the Philadelphia Eagles, who are a little bit battered themselves at this moment, whether that's physically or emotionally. And Manny, the only piece is really the quarterback. And making that decision, I think it does have to factor in. in, that they're going to have at least the majority, finally, of the offensive linemen starting with whoever is at quarterback. But I think that this is a decision that Kevin O'Connell can make

based on what he sees. The buy week also gives him time to get McCarthy back on a practice field and decide, do I like what I see from McCarthy coming back here? Does he look like he's learned some things? Does he look like he's locked in to some of the technical details? Or does it look like in practice, he still doesn't quite have it where he needs to be and you need to stick with Carson Wentz. Yeah. And then that's, I think what's working in their favor is that they are going to have, you know, with this by week, they're going to have some extra time really to kind of take a look at, you know, where J.J. McCarthy is at, you know, coming off this ankle injury and, you know, how close he is to really being ready to step out there because you do have this by week, but you

do have the defending Super Bowl champions waiting for you on the other side of this buy. Now, with this by week, you're going to get a chance to get a look at the Eagles. I think they're playing the Giants this coming Thursday at the Meadowlands. Could be an easy win for the Eagles, but you never know because it's a short week for them, and they're coming off a loss at home to Denver yesterday. So they're going to have some things working in their favor in this whole process before, you know, deciding to go back to J.J. McCarthy or not. But, you know, like you said before Murph and I jumped on, I think really whatever decision Kevin O'Connell makes is ultimately going to be the right one because he is the guy that sees all of this stuff every single day.

He's going to have a better idea of where J.J. McCarthy is at than any of us. And we can talk about it and we can speculate about it. And that's fun for us to be able to do that. And fans can get excited or disappointed depending on, you know, what decision they make. But ultimately, ultimately this choice is Kevin O'Connell's and whatever decision he decides to make, I'm going to take him at his word that this is the right decision to make for J.J. McCarthy and the organization long term. Well, because there's no person who wants J.J. McCarthy to succeed more than Kevin O'Connell. And if he holds him back, I'm sure that that he's going to hate that. Like I guarantee you, you know, Kevin, he likes football. I'm sure that he found a way to take a look what happened with Drake May, who I think we all know he likes Drake May coming out in the draft. I'm sure that he caught Michael Pennix's game a couple

weeks ago where he played extremely well. And I think we all know he liked him. I think he wants really, really badly for his guy that he drafted as the QB guru whisperer, that that's his thing that he wants that guy to succeed. So he's going to handle it the way that he feels his best, which is very hard for me to sit here and go, well, you know, I know better. And this is why, you know this. This is why they don't put me on national TV because I don't say stuff like that. But that's, I'm just being honest. Like, I think that he knows more about it than any of us do and that this is the right way to handle it.

But Murph, you've seen your amount of quarterback controversies in your day. Now, I think that O'Connell needs to handle this the right way for what's best for J.J. McCarthy. but if only life were that simple. So what, why don't you give me some OG sports writer advice for Kevin O'Connell as he goes into this situation that is going to be, I'm sure, in one way or another, discussed a lot. Well, I give him a lot of credit and went too for really not taking any bait yesterday, really making, you know, they're overly, you know, especially with O'Connell. I mean, he knows how to massage words into what sounds like it might be revealing

but really isn't saying anything, but that's like any good coach. And he's never had to make, he's never put himself too out front as this thing develops because, you know, you're going to get boxed in and you don't want to box yourself in until, you know, the extent of McCarthy's injury, the extent of his rehab, what he's going to be able to do. And if he really do put an emphasis on his footwork, we know there's a lot of leverage he's got to put on that ankle, and it's a high ankle sprain. And you also, he needed to see two to three games of Carson Wentz to really understand what he

has. And I think what's interesting about the buy, besides just taking a break from all the kind of unexpected twists and turns, five games and five weeks has already kind of unleashed on the Vikings, it allows O'Connell, too, to really crack open the playbook and say, okay, this is what I have with the line that I have now. This is what's been successful with the running game. This has been what's successful in getting the ball out quickly, which I know you wrote about today, collar. I mean, there's ways for him to, kind of like he did in the laboratory a couple years ago

when he was forced to play all those quarterbacks, didn't know what he had on a week-to-week basis. I want to say there was a by-week in there where he was able to help either Dobbs or Hall, really kind of get acclimated a bit. Maybe I'm wrong. I just seem to think that that might have been the case. But at any rate, he's going to have an opportunity as linemen get healthier, as the defense gets healthier

to say, okay, here's what I'm, here's what I have to work with. Here's the leverage. I might have right now. Here's an opportunity maybe to take a shot here, take a shot there. I really like how he's been able to get and keep Jefferson involved despite the lack of a real downfield attack. He's found moments to hit him and keep him engaged and keep drives alive and just put the ball where, you know, Jefferson can make a play. And I've also, you know, look, we kind of make fun of them a bit for the bag of trips, tricks in the red zone. I give him credit, you know, the direct snap to Acres and the rollout to Oliver was,

from 32 yards. So, you know, he's getting tricky. He's still tricky, and it worked well. And it's going to take some more of those smoke and mirrors plays. And as you pointed out many times, he's fantastic at finding the right opportunity to take a deep shot against a vulnerable looking defense or if he feels like he's got the right protection and he can get an extra click in the pocket. He seems to know when to dial up those plays to make a key third down, keep a drive

going, interrupt some of the opponent's momentum and just keep them from imploding. So if he has the full spectrum here of a couple of weeks to really understand where the health of not only his quarterback, but his line, his defense, his running backs, and then honestly figure out this is the kind of plays we could be successful with against Philadelphia, against the Chargers against Detroit, based on the success we've already seen under Wentz slash McCarthy. I think that O'Connell, sometimes we say, like, hey, he needs to look in the mirror a little bit and, you know, focus on, hey, where could he make some changes to help his quarterback? Because while the whispering has been overall very successful based on what we saw from Kirk and last season with Sam Darnold, and we've never seen Sam Darnold play that confidently. And I think he clearly grew from O'Connell and the coaching and the situation here last year. there were times where we were going. You understand that a swing pass is okay. You understand.

And it took four backup alignment in the game for him to finally go, you know what? I could just run Jordan Addison in motion and swing it out to him in the flat and let him get a couple of yards and then keep those sticks moving. I was so impressed by the game plan yesterday. And even if they had lost, I would have said it was the right way to go considering their opponents. So I totally agree, Murph, that looking yourself in the mirror in a good way,

seeing what you did well and not just going back to that it does remind me in 2016 of how pat shirmer had to come in and start running some west coast stuff and and sort of timing passes in order to negate some of the pass rushes not every team has miles garrett but you might want to treat it that way anyway uh with j j mccarthy it also comes down to mccarthy being able to do it though because when you see some of those throws from wents they're just super veteran throws drop back one two three ball out and then there's jefferson coming out of his break and it hits him for 12 14 yards and you go that's pro quarterback play right there and you don't got to do a lot of that in college so that footwork and that timing and stuff like that that has to be locked in

or all the stuff we're talking about hey just do the short stuff well it doesn't work if you can't time it out and you can't read it out and so he has to prove i think to o'connell behind the scenes that he's going to do that. I want to slam on the brakes just for a second, though, with the quarterback discussion because it can just keep going and going and going because it's so interesting. Can we talk about number 18 for a minute here? Because it gets almost a little bit redundant. Like, great.

He's great. Oh, he was great again. Oh, look, he was great again. Yesterday was just another notch in the belt, another. another mossing on the wall for Justin Jefferson. But when we consider what he said, some of the stuff he said post game and the way that he's handled himself, he said about Jordan Addison, I need to be better with Jordan Addison, which I don't agree with. That's a Jordan Addison, bro. He's a grown up. That's not a Justin Jefferson problem. But I've always thought that the culture of a team, as much as it comes from the head guy, is in the NFL only as good as your best player.

And one of the main reasons that this thing goes the way it does is because of Justin Jefferson. And I didn't see any frustration from him yesterday thrown up the arms. We never see water bottles thrown on the sideline. And in the biggest moment, this guy goes up and beats a what, four-time pro bowler or something to get a huge gain and get that drive into position to score. Mani. We're starting to get to the point with Jefferson where, gosh, it's almost like what the Chris Carter and Randy Mulman. Moss days where it's a different quarterback all the time, and they just put up huge numbers because the receivers are truly that good. And he's put himself, and I know he had already done this, but he

just continues to put himself in that conversation with Moss and Carter as the greatest receivers in Vikings history and as the best of the generation. I think with some other guys, you're like, yeah, you know, C.D. Lamb's amazing and has had a great quarterback to help him out and do it. Justin's never really had that. He's had good quarterbacks, but he's never had great. And he just, there he is, elevating another guy who has been a backup for how many years now. It just, you just can't say enough about it. Folks, are you overwhelmed by the number of different options for hair loss?

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I mean, he's obviously a human being, although sometimes he does things that make you question if he is a human being, some of the amazing things that he does. But it's everything that he does when he makes these great plays and he's so, you know, technically sound in the routes that he runs and the way he catches the football, you can't help but to still continue to be amazed by it, even though it has become to this point in his 60 year in the league that it's become so routine to where you expect it.

So you anticipate that it's going to happen, but when it does happen, you're still mind blown by it. And yesterday was just, it was a clinic. It's just just what he did against that secondary, which is a very good secondary. The Browns have corners that can cover. They've obviously got a defensive front that can get after the quarterback and make things difficult in the passing game and he still just comes through and it's it's just he's in that rare conversation man of just like one of the goats you know i mean obviously jerry rice is here and then everybody else is maybe just just as a notch below in terms of

overall greatness but justin jefferson is putting himself into that conversation of just the greatest most elite wide receivers that this league has really ever seen and this is a league that has seen a lot of really, really good wide receivers come through over the years. And he is, he's separating himself from the rest of the field. It's really amazing to watch. Murph, uh, 449 yards so far for Justin Jefferson in five games, pretty much on par with his career average. The next top receiver has 155, and that's Jordan Addison in two games. Next receiver after that's 153, which is almost, what, 300 yards less than Justin Jefferson. I mean, he's gotten to the point where he's carrying this thing now.

Yeah, and those yards, too, have been hard earned this year. I mean, we haven't seen any 50, 60, 70 yard, you know, blow the roof off kind of plays. It's been, you know, 10, 12, 15 yard chunks, working the sidelines, work in the middle of the field, working tight coverage. I was really impressed with, with Jefferson yesterday on a lot of levels. I thought the way, you know, you talk about clutch baseball players, you talk about clutch hockey players with timely goals, timely hits. Jefferson makes the timely catch. When the offense isn't going anywhere or it's third and eight, he's the one getting the ninth yard. He's the one giving you a sense that, you know what, there may be some hope for Wentz on this drive in this quarter, this game

against this defense. There may be something McCarthy can find because Jefferson just finds a way to make himself relevant. He kind of refuses to be marginalized, and you're right. Again, this has been written about recently, too. It's almost as if, you know, folks in the media are just in general, we're so conditioned to the tantrums and the iPad throwing. As you mentioned, water bottles, you know, you know, getting in the ear of a coach. I mean, it's kind of part and parcel of being a top receiver in the NFL.

They want their catches, and they want them now. I haven't seen or felt that. It feels like every time the camera will pan on him, can see him steaming, but it's almost like he's scheming. How can I make myself relevant? How can I help my quarterback? How can I help my team? You know, 123 yards, really some tough catches, no scores, but it didn't matter.

He was the best player on the field for the team. And then post-game, when it comes out, we come to find out that Jordan Addison, inexcusably overseas, somehow they've been together for 10 days, and he misses a walkthrough. You know, I love the fact that Jefferson came up and said, hey, I got. had to talk to you. I let him have it. Uh, you know, this isn't being a profession. I'm paraphrasing here, but, you know, this is, you know, he's better than that. And I got to do a better job of taking him under my wing. But, you know, I, I would love to have been a fly on the wall for that conversation, because I'm guessing it wasn't pleasant. And I'm guessing it was, you know,

parent teenager. And the thing is, I don't know how many more Addison parent teenager moments he can get in this club. Uh, but that just really impressed me with Jefferson from start to finish. And as he has all season and he has all throughout his career. he's emerging as a captain and a leader he's not just a guy to make the great play he's the guy that's holding people accountable including himself and he's the kind of guy that can really turn the tide of any game and that's not easy to do if you're only touching the football five to six times i thought we just really saw the jefferson that when he got the contract extension these guys could sometimes go two ways right they can say this really shows that i'm the franchise guy and

I need to act like it, and I need to be that dude. I asked Jefferson about this in maybe his training camp, and he said basically that he wasn't always very comfortable with this. He's a little bit on the quieter side as a person, and he's had to force himself to be that guy for this team, and he's taken so much onus on himself that this is his franchise, now that he's got that extension, and he has acted like it every bit of the way so far,

but they do not even come close to winning that football game without the way he played yesterday and he deserves credit for that and we just get caught up sometimes on how are they going to fix this how are they going to fix that this is going wrong that's going wrong like let's just you know hit pause and talk about that guy uh i want to go over to the defensive side manny because there there was a stat today that i had actually i can pull this up for you to get it so i've got the specific stat i think we all agree that on the defensive side the run defense has not been good enough for them. And Quinn John Judkins ran over them.

Kenneth Gainwell ran over them. Bejan Robinson ran over them. But let me read you this. I tweeted early today after Chad Graff, friend of mine who covers the Patriots, put out a chart of the expected points added for every team offense and defense. And I said the Vikings defense has not felt as dominant

because of opposing teams run games, but they are fourth in points allowed per drive and second in yards allowed per drive. I think that Vikings' defensive struggles are kind of a mirage based on the fact that, and I'm not saying they, like, did stop Quinn John Jenkins and your eyes fooled you. I understand that. But they have not allowed a 200-yard passer yet this season. I think that it's based on the fact that the other team has had the ball a ton against the Vikings. They're averaging 4.5 yards per run allowed, which is 19.

but it's not 32nd and it's not like they're giving up six yards it's not like uh who was it yesterday rico dowdell running over the miami dolphins and i also think that yesterday was pretty instructive toward the second half of the game where they used rodriguez and they use redmond more than they use jvon hargrave i think that's another thing they have to do going forward but what are we supposed to make of a defense that has felt like it's got some holes to it and it does but also has the numbers of a team that has been as good as they've been defensively over the last few years? I think because

I think it's two things. I think one because the standard has been set, I think because they were so good against the run last year that we were kind of expecting that, I mean, it was, you know, I want to be careful not to have a hot take here, but it was almost Williams-Wall-esque last year with how good they were against the run,

where they just didn't get, run on very much at all. And I think naturally we were so used to that and we were expecting that it was going to be very similar this year, despite them signing two defensive tackles who weren't particularly very good against the run last year. So I think we were so used to seeing that, that when Bejon Robinson breaks off a couple of runs, big runs early in the game against Atlanta, you're like, whoa, wait a minute, what's going on?

that's not supposed to happen. This team's supposed to be very good against the run, which leads me to the second part of this, where I think a lot of this is we've seen a lot of just sort of big chunk yardage runs by some of these running backs where, you know, Gainwell was a little bit different with Pittsburgh. But, you know, Bejohn Robinson comes out and breaks off just a massive run at the start of the game.

And he had a couple of like really big, huge runs. And Judkins kind of did the same thing. yesterday, where he broke off a huge run to get the Browns down inside the 10-yard line. And so I think that's part of it, too. It doesn't really feel like, you know, it's not like they have a Saquan-Barkley type of, now they're going to see Saquan in a couple of weeks. But it's not like it's Saquan-Barkley 30 carries and running for 240 yards like we saw him do, you know, last year so often.

And I think that's why, you know, maybe the numbers aren't as, you know, alarming, I guess, as it kind of feels like it should be. Right. And I think that's, in a lot of ways, that could be a good sign that maybe the run defense, while it's not what we were hoping it was going to be, it's maybe not quite as bad as we are, you know, sort of seeing it be. and that could be a sign. And again, they get some of these guys back and healthy. I think that's really going to help matters, too. I just was going to piggyback on that. I agree totally with what Manny said in terms of the standard.

We are so used to kind of this being that ferocious, get after it, not giving up big plays, actually making big plays kind of a defense, thinking back to maybe the 2017 team a little bit where that was, they dictated terms. Brian Flores dictated terms. A couple things that come to mind, if you remember, I took a quick glance at where they were a year ago at this time at 5 and 0, right? You know, just coming back from Europe, having taken care of the jets and basically getting Robert Salaf fired and making Rogers look bad. And they go into their buy just, you know, whistle and Dixie because they're just thinking everything's great.

Well, there was a stat we pounded to death early in the season. It was, I think it was either three and a half or four and a half minutes was all that they trailed through those first five games. games. They were always playing from ahead. They were dominating the first quarter. They were just jumping on teams. And a lot of those teams had to throw to get back into the games. And because they did that, they were able to make the big plays in the secondary or get the big strip sack or the big third down sack. So the teams weren't running. Now, you could tell me, Collar, if the volume is there. I've heard you say the averages, yeah, they are giving up big chunk plays this season compared to last year. But I don't think teams have really run the ball that much last year as

they are now because the Vikings have been trailing. The Vikings have been in closer games. And they've also played teams. You know, Caleb Williams, they wanted to get a running game going to protect him. Bejohn Robinson is a great running back. And hey, let's get panic some relief in a tough road environment. Then you're up against Jake Browning. And they were, you know, digging a hole from the get-go and we're never running the ball. And then you're, you know, so it just feels like every, you know, since Pittsburgh finds a way to run on him, it just felt like the Vikings haven't been in the circumstances to play stout run defense because they haven't had the cards to really play and their offense hasn't done them a ton of favors.

So you're right. It does seem like, boy, they should be doing better. Why are they continually getting gashed in the run? But when you threw out the fact that no passers thrown for over 200 yards, I mean, that's impressive. And the fact that the Vikings are struggling to score probably puts more of a spotlight, magnifies the defense because they're on the field more and you feel desperate. every time they don't get a three and out that, you know, when is this going to be the

straw that breaks the camels back? Right. No, I think circumstances has a huge impact on the run defense and just defense in general because when we look at the counting stats, the points against, the yards against, I mean, even Cleveland, they gave up, what, 34 to the Detroit Lions, but they didn't even play a bad game defensively. Their office just gave the ball away a bunch of times and didn't move the ball at all. And so when you rank 28th, in number of plays per drive on offense. Well, guess who's getting strained? And when a team like Pittsburgh with Arthur Smith also think about some of the coaches,

Kevin Stefansky, Arthur Smith, these guys are rooted in the, and running the ball. This is their specialty. And Arthur Smith did it in Tennessee with Derek Henry and with six offensive linemen or big tight ends and stuff, big personnel. They would do that all the time. And so these are coaches who are good at it and are good at committing to it. At the same time, the Vikings are still top 10 in points against, despite the fact the defense has been on the field as much as they have, which to me says, if you could get

the offense going, get some longer drives going, when you get everybody back in the other side of the buy and Jordan Addison, assuming that he shows up to everything next week, then you're talking about now an offense that could be a much better version than it was in these first couple of weeks. Not only can be, but absolutely has to be, or eventually your defense will get worn down and it will break apart. But you mentioned Sequin Barclay and I want to talk about this is the shape of the NFC

at this moment. It has, gosh, we think we've got it solved and then it all changes. The first half of that game on the number of tweets I saw Bo Nix is toast. He's he can't win. The Denver's out of it. It's a game over. Philly

is going to win the Super Bowl, all that stuff. And then everything changes. Nix leads them back. Philadelphia apart. They're now four and one. Saquan is not the same Saquan. Omerian Hampton's on IR, and the Chargers lose another game pretty handily to Washington. So I want to run through this right now, just using some of the fan duel, the odds here of the different divisions and take a look at the NFC.

Now, I mentioned the fan duel question of the day was that there are eight teams ahead of the Vikings, the Vikings plus 265 to make the playoffs. some of these teams are a little bit suspect. So let me just tell you who the division favorites are in each division. And then we could talk about it a little bit. So the Eagles are still the favorite in the NFC East. The Lions have shot ahead of the Packers in the NFC North at plus 105. Tampa Bay after yesterday is now minus 350 to win the South.

And the 49ers are the favorite right now at minus 115 to win the NFC. I think that this schedule, though, Manny, now facing the NFC East is much more intriguing after what we've seen, because all of a sudden, Philly looks a little bit more vulnerable. Washington, though, is fine with Jaden Daniels. Dallas looks more dangerous. And after a brief, whoa, hey, look at the Giants week. They went back to being the Giants and lost to the worst team in football. So let's talk about the NFC East because it's all still to come. come for the Minnesota Vikings on their schedule.

So what do you think about what happened with Philly and what we saw from some of the other teams over the last couple of weeks about how hard this is going to be to face the NFC East? Yeah. And I'm kind of looking at the schedule as a whole, even beyond the East. I mean, obviously, if you got Philadelphia and you've got Washington and Dallas and the Giants all ahead, it's going to be kind of a trio of NFC East games in December coming up. and you're going to get Philadelphia here in a couple of weeks.

But really, and this is almost the beauty of the NFL, is that you think you have these teams in the first couple of weeks, you think you've got it all figured out. You think you understand who the best teams are and who's playing the best football and this team's going to be really tough to beat, and then injuries happen. Or players just are not as good as they were last year. And, you know, I think Saquan Barkley is a perfect example of that.

he's only averaging 3.2 yards of carry right now. Not even like half as good as what he was last year. He was amazing last year. And again, this kind of goes to show you about how things can turn quickly for even some of the greatest running backs of a generation. So now this matchup with Philadelphia, when you're going to have a buy week and time to prepare for them, now they're going to be coming off of a kind of a mini buy because they've got the Giants this Thursday.

But you're going to have some time to really get a look at that. the Eagles, you're going to get a chance to look at what the Broncos were able to do in the second half to kind of slow them down and make things challenging for Jalen Hertz and not allow Saquan Barkley to really be a factor. So this is an opportunity now for the Vikings in a game that we thought was likely going to be a sure loss, especially when we were seeing the Vikings not play as well as we were hoping. Now this is an opportunity to, you know, maybe take advantage of a team that's reeling a little bit in the Philadelphia Eagles. And, you know, when you get to Washington later,

I mean, Washington seems like they've gotten back to who they are with Daniels getting back and healthy and everything after missing a couple of games. But again, that game is on December 7th. That game is two months away. There's a lot that can happen between now and then with them. And Dallas seems to be playing a little bit better. Still have a lot of question marks about that defense still.

and then the Giants, I don't know if the Giants are really going to be playing much better come week 16 because they're just not very good. But yeah, I mean, I think it kind of goes to show that a lot of things can happen over the course of the season that, you know, can really change the fortune of how things turn out for you when it may have looked like a daunting task. It might not be as such by the time you get to those matchups. Who's coaching the New York Giants at that point might be a good. question that we're asking Dallas, though, not just going away into the night, despite all

their drama, Dak Prescott playing MVP caliber football. Now, Murph, I want to redirect to the NFC North because let me just, let me just read you something about the Detroit Lions. Now, they've been great, absolutely great. And I believe that they will continue to be really good, but I'm going to throw something out there for you. So they lose to the Green Bay Packers to start the season and their victories have been decided after, but they've been decided against the Bears, Ravens, who stink apparently, Browns, and the Jake Browning Bengals. I can't say that that is the most impressive schedule. You talk about trying to predict the schedule before the season's strength of schedule. You would have said, oh man, Bengals and Burrow and Ravens and Lamar,

the Lions could be out of it by the first month. And now we're talking about that is about the easiest schedule that anyone's faced so far this season. So as a Detroit native, Murph, how good are the Detroit Lions? There's good as their record says they are. They're four and one and in first place in the NFC North. You're right. I think there is a little shine off of that when you consider the competition, but it's not their fault.

They don't get to pick the schedule. And the Vikings are essentially playing the same one. So everyone in the NFC North is playing the same schedule. So they're all going to have a chance to kick Jake Browning and the Bengals around. And what's interesting, you know, we talked, you were saying, you know, we think we have it all figured out. And Mani was saying, yeah, you just don't know because things happen. And that's the beauty of the NFL.

And that's what's so fascinating is that it's all great to look at everything on paper and base things off of what happened last year, project what may happen. Look at a schedule that comes out in May and think you have a sense of, well, that's going to be a rough go. and this is going to be a tough stretch. Then you start, Collar, what do we do? That's why we play the game. That's why we play the games.

You play the games, then the injuries mount. Bad decisions happen. Controversy. You know, I look at what happened to the Arizona Cardinals last night. That could be a franchise altering loss the way it went down. And that could sink their season for a long time. Look at what happened to the Bears after their Hail Mary. loss in Chicago and not being able to manage the clock in Detroit.

I mean, there are things that occur throughout a season that you don't know the cumulative effect that's going to have on the locker room. You don't know how the butterfly effect comes. Who to thunk the Baltimore Ravens would be struggling as badly as they are defensively and be one in four. Anybody that saw the Ravens on the schedule thought Lamar Jackson, that's going to be an extremely difficult matchup. So, and even now at five games, I mean, yeah, we have a pretty good idea.

of what we think the Vikings can do, but we don't know three weeks from now what may happen. We don't know what may happen off the field. There's always so many things that occur that you're not in control of, something an opponent will do to you, something that gets said, something that gets, there's just so many variables when it comes to managing a sideline and managing a locker room and managing yourself throughout the 17-game grind, and it's why we all tune in. That's the beauty of it. So you're right.

I feel like there's, as far as the Lions to bring it all in for a landing, I mean, I think they're the most equipped to kind of deal with the ebbs and flows because they've been really ascending for several years now. I think they realize this is their time. They're pretty talented and they don't waste time putting a lot of points on bad teams. They may not be 40-point blowouts, but they know how to handle bad teams. And I feel like they're, they are going to get challenged, but I feel like they're in a pretty good position to play big games against tough opponents.

they've been doing it for a while. But I don't think they have a strangle hold per se on the division. I think Green Bay is still going to be relevant. I think the Vikings did afford themselves and bought themselves a little more hope yesterday that they can still be relevant going through the meat grinder of the schedule. I don't think that there is good as a bunch of blowouts that they're just going to score 40 points a game. I think that they will face tougher opponents that maybe reveals some of the things that we were concerned about. at the same time, while they're having some injuries on the defensive side, Terry and Arnold is out, DJ, DJ Reed is out as well.

I think both those guys are on IR, so that could be somewhat problematic for them. But what they have, and they showed this last year when they dealt with injuries, and they've shown it in the past a number of times, is, and I'm glad you brought up Jonathan Gannon because it really shows the juxtaposition of those two guys. Dan Campbell knows how to guide a team through just about anything. And I tend to think this about Kevin O'Connell as well. But man, Dan Campbell has shown he could do this. I promise you if a guy made a terrible mistake that Dan Campbell is not going to go punch him like Jonathan Gannon did. And you know, he apologized today. You can't put that toothpaste back in the tube.

Once you have crossed that line, you cannot uncross it. And that is over in Arizona. with Jonathan Gannon, but also you're only as good as your best player and Kyle or Murray just ain't it. Murray is a fun and flawed player who just is not good enough to get a team over 500. That's the quarterback that he is and that's the coach that Jonathan Gannon's going to be. But you see from Dan Campbell, he can push them through just about anything. And I think that gives them an edge.

I also think he's better at it than Matt LaFleur. I mean, Matt LaFleur is a great schematic coach, but I don't know if he's always the best game management coach he botched it the other night he's done that a number of times their special teams is always bad and you wonder if that kind of goes back to how much you care about it which is what i tend to think about special teams they're up and down for you know throughout uh the different seasons with jordan love so i think Detroit is the most fit for it and they also have a lot of the same players they've had for years who have bonded around this idea that they can compete for a Super Bowl. So I think they will be extremely, extremely tough. So usually it's Thursday that we

pick the schedule and have Manny go through every single game and decide whether the Vikings will win or lose. And, but Manny, you are busy this Thursday. Plus, it's also the by week. Like, I shouldn't make, shouldn't make you work on the by week. If this, if it was Merv, I would grind him right into the dust. But, you know, we got to give you a break from time to time. So I'm unavailable Thursday, by the way. Well, that's, that's a shame. And unavoid. available for golf i found out this week which is very disappointing but uh let's let's go after you didn't play well the other day kind of interesting is this where we're going interesting that you're i mean we can break down our golf games anytime saying that you're suddenly unavailable i didn't fall

off a tea box after my tea shot um so let me just let me just say to tell the story there please do because i wanted to be made clear how far that drive went so uh oh we were we were We were playing, uh, what course is that, Les Bolstad, which is on the University of Minnesota. And there's a par five that's a very difficult hole and it's a little bit of a dog leg right. And so I was on the T-box, par five. It's, I don't know, 460 or something like that.

So I hit the drive and. Of his life. I'll give you that. I freaking crush this thing. I mean, we're talking probably like 275, 280. It's downhill. It might have rolled even farther than that. So I destroy this thing.

But it's going around the. dog leg right it's got a little bit of a nice little cute fade to it so i'm kind of walking back walking back trying to see where it's going to land and then i see some people down there that we didn't see so then i'm looking there as i'm walking back and i fell right over uh a bench that was there now who puts a bench right next to the t box that doesn't make any sense so i's where you rest while your other players tee off it's totally relevant uh do you want to just be there distracting other players you want to be away from the t box so then i fell i hit my arm and it's scrape the entire side of my arm off.

So the rest of the round, I'm playing just with blood dripping down my arm. But I parted the hole and it was a great drive and I would do it again. All right, I'll give you that. But it'd just be like Aaron Judge tripping over first base after, you know, beating Barry Bonds' record. Anyway, we're going to pick the schedule here. We're picking the schedule, though. I don't want to, we don't want to talk about the.

Sorry, I can't golf, but we got a good story out of it. The two holes where Murph just gave up. the other day. So let's go to the schedule then. Because of time limitations and the fact that I want to watch football, let's get, let's just get one very definitive and strong sentence about each game from both of you after you make your picks. And please keep track of your own records because you guys know that I will mess this up. So let's start with out of the bye week, the Vikings face off with the Philadelphia Eagles. Please clarify who's playing quarterback and then your pick, Manny.

I'm going to say J.J. McCarthy is playing quarterback, and I'm going to pick the Vikings to win the game. Okay. Wow. Wow. I am so not Manny right here. I'm going to say Carson Wentz is going to start because they did say four to six weeks. It's a high ankle sprain. And so I'm going to say when starts. And I think the Eagles are going to take care of business until I'm shown otherwise that the Vikings can take down a high quality opponent. All right. A couple days later, they will play a battered Los Angeles Chargers team. Do they go out to L.A.? I think it's going to be less of a takeover, but man, there were a lot of, who knew there were that many commanders fans, just period in that stadium? So do the Vikings, though, beat the

beaten up Chargers? Chargers are banged up. I don't think it's a hard place to play. but it is going to be a short week and the Vikings will have to travel. So I think the Vikings will play well, but the Chargers will make one extra play and win the game. Okay. So you've got them now at four and three, Murph? Yeah, I'm going to take them, I had them at three and three after the loss. I'm going to take them to four and three winning in L.A.

And I'm also going to have Wentz starting one more game. As Man, man, he said, you know, it's not a great home atmosphere for the Chargers, maybe more so for the Rams, but definitely not the Chargers. It is a tough West Coast Thursday night turn around. And this is the fourth sentence I'm offering you. But I do think this is the opportunity that they will have with Wentz and a banged-up Chargers team to go to four three. Semicolans.

You had semi-colons in there. All right. I'm not going to say, okay, go ahead. Let's go to, can't help ourselves. Let's go to week nine where the Vikings go on the road to play against the Detroit. Lions at their House of Horrors in the Kevin O'Connell era, Ford Field. Yeah, I've been pretty consistent with this one. It's a hard place to play, total opposite of at the Chargers.

So I'm going to give the Vikings a loss here. The Lions are just a better football team. All right. You've got a four and four. Go ahead, Murph. Yeah, their Vikings are going to lose. The Lions are better. It's a tough environment.

McCarthy does come back. I think it's a nice little setup since he had played in Michigan. I don't think he's the reason they lose. I just think Detroit's better. Okay. Home against the Ravens to set up back-to-back home games there in November. Is Lamar back by then? I'm going to say, yes, I think he will be.

I think he will be. All right. If Lamar is back. Yeah, if Lamar's back by then, I'll give the Ravens the win. Murph? Yeah, I'm going to, boy, I don't know. I'm going to, I think this is more of a coin flip than I thought it was going to be. I had Baltimore winning this game every time we picked.

Yeah, if Lamar's back, yes, but those hamstring injuries, boy, I'll, I'll, yeah, I'll give the Vikings to win. Okay, so Murph has them at five and four, Mani at four and five, all right? Okay. Let's go to the next game, which will be at home against the Chicago Bears. I'm very interested to see what the Bears look like at this point because they've gotten a couple of wins against some teams. that are not so impressive, though, does Caleb Williams continue to play at a high level? I mean, you look at his stats right now. He's played pretty good football, but that might be different by the middle of November.

So do the Vikings beat Chicago at U.S. Bank Stadium? My opinion on this might change as we get closer to this game, but for now I'm going to stick with the Vikings winning because they're at home. And they're going to be a pretty tough quality opponent for the Bears to go up against. So I'll take the Vikings winning. here. I'll take the Vikings winning at home again as well. I just know it's not going to be the same Bears team we saw in the season opener or even that we're looking at now. And, you know, McCarthy should be on a roll by then. So we got five and five and six and four. Is that right? Yes.

Okay. Let's go to Lambo, November 23rd. This is circled on my calendar. I cannot wait for this football game. And I guess the world will be hoping. that it's J.J. McCarthy's debut at Lambo, which would be really something to drive through the darkness and dodge all the deer in order to get to. But is it going to be worth my dangerous drive, Manny? I think it'll be worth the drive because I think it'll be a really well-played game by both teams,

but I think the Packers will come out on top. All right. It's always worth your drive. This is going to be a great game. I think McCarthy's going to play well and afforded himself really well at Lambeau, but I do think Green Bay is going to prevail. All right. Let's go out to Seattle, where at least thus far, Sam Darnold has been playing phenomenal National Football League football for that team.

But their defense looked incredibly suspect against a banged up Tampa Bay Bucks team. You talk about week to week, I would have thought that Seattle would have had a pretty good defense. And now all of a sudden, wow, that was really an incredible football game to watch. The jerseys were brilliant. It was magical. I loved it. But it definitely made you think twice about Seattle's defense. Can the Vikings go out to that difficult place to play and come home with a win? Well, and I'm not so sure it is a difficult place to play anymore. Fair enough.

Historically, the last, you know, last year and into this year, I've been a much better road team than they have been at home. And with that defense, you know, not being very good. I think this is a chance for the Vikings to go out there. if it's J.J. McCarthy or Carson went to go out there and play well. So I'm going to get the Vikings a win here. You know, I agree. I don't think Seattle's as difficult as it used to be still loud. But I think this may be a shootout. I mean, I think the way Seattle's looked, I think this might be an opportunity for maybe McCarthy to stretch it. And O'Connell just,

you know, stretch their wings a little bit. And, but I do think Darnel's going to put up some numbers too. But I do think the Vikings will prevail. Call it overtime or a Reichard walk off. okay as long as it doesn't hit uh tv wire then it'll be fine um i don't know o'connell was just like i don't know what do you want me to tell you uh they didn't give it was really wide right though it's interesting to think that it could have been i mean when it was kicked i thought it was good and then it just kind of went like nope and i i thought wind or uh i don't know like is it different in Europe the way the ball flies like I'm not sure but it certainly looks like it from its flight because it all of a sudden took like a hard right turn but I don't know so where are you

guys at where are we at records wise here is it uh I've got them at six and six yeah and that would be at seven and five seven and five okay uh all right down the final stretch here Washington commanders at US Bank Stadium jaden Daniels first trip to US Bank Stadium we think as long as he's healthy. It might be Marcus Marriota. I don't know. Yeah, I think it's really going to depend on who the quarterback is for Washington. If Daniels is healthy at this point, I'm going to give Washington the win. I kind of anticipate that, so I'm going to give the commanders to win. But if it's Marcus Marriota, I would like the Vikings chances. But for now, I'm going to assume that Jaden is healthy and that it'll be him and that Washington will get the win. Yeah, they're a much

better and different team with Jaden. I think if he's there, they do win. So I get him to seven and six. All right. Manny's got him six and seven. Murph's got him seven and six. Cowboys. You're going to that one. Murph on the purple insider dime. So run up your tab in Jerry World. But manny, do they drink one dog should be it. Yeah, that's all we that's all the stipend can afford. Mani, uh, do they win this game though? Yeah, I think they do because I think it's going to be similar to what I anticipate the Seattle game to be where it's going to be a lot of points. The Cowboys defense can't really stop anybody, but they have enough talent on offense to put enough points on their own as well. I don't think Jerry World is a very tough place for opposing

teams to play at. So I'll give the Vikings to win on what right now is laid to be a prime time game. Seven and seven then. Yeah, I have them winning too, but it's in probably a really high scoring, weird way. I just, you've got to be nervous about facing a team like Dallas. You just don't know what they are they're somewhat dangerous somewhat vulnerable and you don't know at any given minute which one it's going to be but i think they'll prevail so now that's where are you at murph eight and five eight and five wow uh purple murph uh at eight and five a long way to go a lot of football left after week 14 are you uh are you guys both giving a w at the giants or is there any dissension there can we just move on from that yeah we can okay all right i don't i don't need your sentences i

just want to get to the games I care about, which is Detroit and Green Bay at home. So let's start with home against the lions. The atmosphere on Christmas Day should be wonderful. And I, you know, some of the nation will see it on Netflix. Well, I've been saying I feel like the Vikings are going to split these two games one way or the other. I'm going to go with a loss at home against Detroit. To go to 500. eight and eight yeah all right mirth yeah i've got them i think i've had this split uh since we've

been picking i still feel the same way lose to detroit at home win the finale in green bay so it gets them for me to nine and six i believe uh would it be nine and seven if they lose to detroit right nine and seven yeah yep and then so you both have them beating green bay on the final day of the season so murph has them at ten and seven manny has them at nine and eight. And I think all things considered with the way that this is gone, the quarterback situation, the injuries and everything else, in both of those scenarios versus the tough schedule, which I think when you go through it, even though it's not as tough as we talked

about, still a lot of difficult games at Lambeau, at Seattle, at Detroit, finishing with the two best teams in your division, not easy times to come for the Minnesota Vikings. If they end up with 10 or 9 wins, I think you can say they'll have a chance to make the playoffs. And with all the things that have happened so far this year, that would be a victory to be. It wouldn't be what we thought it was going to be at the beginning of the season where we're starting with that bar at 11. But I probably have it at 9 or 8 myself. Can I ask a bonus question? Go ahead, yeah.

Manning, if you have them at 9 and 8, do you have them actually making the playoffs? I'm going to say no because I think there are, and obviously, tiebreakers and all that stuff will come into play. But I think there's going to be a lot of teams in the NFC that are going to be kind of hanging around that same sort of record, same amount of wins that might end up getting into the playoffs ahead of the Vikings. And I agree. I don't think 9 and 8 is all that bad.

If it's McCarthy, the majority of the way after what they've endured, you may have to, you may have to just deal with a non-playoff. That's not going to sit well with a veteran rester, but that's the risk you take when you're handing it over to someone like McCarthy. So let me pull that back to the Fandul question of the day, which is there's eight teams ahead of the Vikings on Fanduel for the odds to make the playoffs. The Vikings at plus 265. Who do you think that they could get ahead of?

And when we look at it, though, I think we can make, I mean, look, it's a long way to go. There are some teams in here. Actually, there might be nine. I may have counted wrong. There's nine ahead of them, which makes them tenth. But when we look at the teams ahead of them, You know, San Francisco is a favorite. Los Angeles is probably the one that I forgot to name.

Los Angeles is in there as well. Then you have Tampa Bay is having a great start to their season. But that might be a little smoke and mirrorsy, but they're going to probably win that division. Where I think it gets a little bit on the softer side in the back of the NFC would be teams like Dallas and Atlanta and even Seattle. Like these are the teams you're going to be racing against. As well as Sam Darnold is playing.

Seattle's 3 and 2. They have the same record as the Minnesota Vikings. And Dallas has still no defense. And if DAC gets banged up at all, they could be in trouble. Atlanta's a Jekyll and Hyde team, just like the Vikings. So I think that there's two sort of sections of the NFC. There is the very, very serious section of the NFC, which to me is probably, despite their loss, the Rams, I think we got to give it to San Francisco based on reputation.

Philadelphia, we're going to see this week, but still deserves the benefit of the doubt there. Washington has, I think, the best quarterback in the conference, Detroit, Green Bay. You got to beat out somebody that's in the second tier, whether that is the Rams or Seattle or Green Bay. With seven teams making the playoffs these days, it gives you one extra team to kind of race against. And as we're laying it out right now, you need to get ahead of one of them. And there's games against some of those teams. There's games against the Washington. There's games against Seattle.

But I think the way it's laid out right now, it's a very, very tough road to hoe when you're talking about just getting to nine wins with the teams that are in that clump. Because if we say that the wild car teams as of right now, you know, Los Angeles and Washington and Green Bay, who are you beating out of those? So they need somebody to slip, right?

And get into the playoffs that way. Yeah. And Atlanta is going to be the team that I'm going to really pay a lot of attention to. Because if those two teams end up with the same, if the Vikings and Falcons end up with the same record, the Falcons are going to have the tiebreaker because of the head-to-head matchup. So that's going to be something to watch.

But in the case of Seattle, you know, if Dallas hangs around in these situations, you're going to have a chance to play those teams. So even if you end up tied with them, if you beat them, you're going to have a tiebreaker over them in that scenario. So those are the teams that the teams that the Vikings are going to be playing are also the teams that they're going to be sort of, jostling with, you know, except for, except for the Rams, the Rams aren't on the schedule,

but some of these other teams that are going to be hanging around, Washington's another one. Yep. That you're going to have a chance to sort of separate yourself from those teams by just beating them and getting that tiebreaker advantage. You don't exactly. One last quick point. I think to preseason, I thought it was a very good chance there'd be three teams from the NFC North to make it.

Now I'm not as sure. And as much as it matters to always get divisional wins to try to win, the title, I don't think the Vikings are going to win the NFC North, but they're going to have to win their division games. Yes. To get in. So I just feel like 10 wins is the magic number for them. The two games against Green Bay could swing this entire thing because Green Bay has that tie in there and they are, they are certainly an up and down team. Washington is a little easier to pencil in with Jane Daniels, but you don't know about maybe his health or whatever, he does take a lot of hits. So Oh, man, football.

It is going to be a fascinating race as we go forward. And I'm enjoying already kind of this day, this by week, bigger picture conversation about where this team is at. So I'm glad that we could get together this evening. And we'll do some different on Thursday night, Manning. Somebody else I'll have fun with here. Just maybe talk with the fans on Thursday. Maybe they'll pick the schedule. That'll be either 0-17 or 17 and O, based on Vikings fans and how they are.

Despite the three wins, they're still convinced they're not going to win at all. Mani Hill, Brian Murphy, every Monday night here on the show. So thank you guys so much for your time. Thank you everybody for listening. And if you didn't answer the Fandual question, they make sure that you do that as well. So appreciate everybody watching. And we will catch you all very soon.

Football. Football. Football.