Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - JJ McCarthy's hand banged up, KOC talks play calling (Part 2)

Episode Date: November 13, 2025

Matthew Coller talks about JJ McCarthy being limited in practice because of a hand injury. KOC addressed criticisms of his play calling/ The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This episode of Purple Insider is presented by Fandul. Carl says, I don't know how he could say it's a results-based thing with also ignoring the results. Yeah, no, I, and this is something I struggle with all the time, Carl, myself is, is that when people say process over results, I'm like, okay, like I get what you're saying, is that you want to draw conclusions from the right things. So if you make a stupid decision and you throw the ball up into the air senselessly and it bounces off of somebody's helmet, hits the referee, lands on a squirrel, and then your receiver picks it up and runs it into the end zone, I mean, that's not repeatable. You're not going to say, well, great job. You made the worst decision in the world, but it had to bounce off a squirrel.

Like, that's not how you do this. It's making good decisions repeatedly with good technique and all that sort of. That's a process thing. Where I don't agree is when people say, well, it's not about the results. And that goes for play calling too. And I listened to Zach Lowe's podcast a lot. And he had an interview years ago with Stan Van Gundy where he said to Van Gundy like, hey, remember this one play and hey, you had a really good inbound play for that.

You got an open look. And Stan said, I didn't have a good inbound play there. He's like, what do you mean? The guy got a wide open shot. It was a good play. And he's like, well, if it didn't work, then I didn't call the right play. And I think that there's a, we've gone a little too far into the like, hey, if, if it didn't work out, then as long as I can justify it. Like, that's, that's not how this works.

It's not how anything works of as long as I could justify it. I am right. And I had the right process. It's like, I don't, I don't know if everything gets that free pass. like that. I think football people and across sports love it because every time they're asked about something that went wrong, they're like, well, I was actually right. You're like, oh, okay. All right. Well, I thought I saw the guy intercept the pass. So, but I guess, you know, and look, I actually like the third down call because that play happens all the time and it works. And Jefferson's great. And like, I,

I agreed with that one. I didn't like the other one later, the third and two and fourth and two. But the point is just the results are everything that's all that matters the excuses and everything else don't matter so i understand where process and results come from uh and i get why it's used so often like i i understand but if you call a play that results in a really bad interception that completely changes the game it's pretty hard to say actually no it was a great call i mean i don't know that's just it's maybe it's just been beaten into the ground so much it's been said so many times of the process versus results you want to have the idea is that if you make good decisions that have a better chance to succeed than they fail that sometimes they will fail and everyone

will second guess you but you want to continue to make really good decisions I get that but I don't think it's an answer to I am right all the time like I every everything that went wrong it's actually my wonderful process. Well, you know, if it goes wrong too often, then the process doesn't make sense. So anyway, I don't mean to get off on that total tangent. But I think I get as frustrated as some of you do by some of those platitudes about process and results. The results in the NFL are all that matters. They do not hire and fire coaches or give you Super Bowl rings based on, well, you argue that your process was good.

Here's a ring. um anyway let's see uh let's see not nassage maybe says uh four games is the universally recognized amount of time to make a decision no quarterback has ever needed longer than that that's funny that's funny uh zoomer chaos says the c o not running thing was never an issue before this year because the running game was never good enough to rely on basically any situation now we have the dudes to run, so we have to do it. That's fair. That's very fair. First half of last year, I thought they did a good job of running, but they were mostly leading in games. But I think that's fair. And this is where I do agree. Like my point is it's going to be a passing offense. So we can't

every single situation that they don't run that maybe traditionally you would run. We just scream until our eyes bleed about it when it's a past first offense. And that's how it's always going to be because your best player is number 18. And, you know, your third best player, is number three and like those guys catch balls and you should do that right they should be the focus of what you do because when you get away from that then you get stephan digs and mike zimmer right but your point is exactly correct this current situation is the best that they've had to run the football period and if they came out this week and ran 30 times and through the ball 18 times i don't think anybody would be mad if that was what was winning in the game and where it got

I think frustrating a little bit in the Ravens game was you saw it working, like, oh, there's a big run from Aaron Jones. There's a big run from Jordan Mason. And now you're not doing it anymore. So that's where I think it got frustrating for some people. Stevens says, what does it say about KOC and the Vikings organization? If McCarthy can't handle what KOC puts in front of his plate, the chicken and egg thing is the hardest, is the hardest.

I mean, one is we don't really know how much. percentage of this offense versus with Sam Darnold, is it what he asked Kirk to do? Is it what he asked Sam Darnold to do? Is it a pared down version of that that should be easier, but it's not? At times, it has looked easier like when they're playing Detroit and he's only having to throw for 143 to win the game and they convert on a screen on a third down or, you know, a rollout where T.J. Hawkinson is open and that's an easier type of play for him. a big part of the Ravens game and JJ's worst performances in that Ravens game often were when, you know, you're trying to come back and you've got to drop back over and over and over

again. And that's very hard to do for good quarterbacks. And it's extremely hard to do for a young quarterback like that, which is why, you know, I talked a little bit about this last week about, hey, don't let the score dictate everything for you because then you get into that type of situation where you're passed to run ratio. while you're down two scores and trying to come back is I think I had it like 19 to 1 or 19 to 2 for called runs.

So, you know, like that's where it does get particularly difficult. I mean, you're right overall about like you have to have the right amount that your quarterback can handle. And it's a reasonable question of have they asked him to do too much, have they put too much on his plate? And I think the other part of that is that the bet they made was that he would be able to handle a lot on his plate. And I don't know if they thought he would be able to handle it in four weeks of starting.

I think they thought at this point he'd be halfway through the season and not have an injury that set him back. But they installed the entire offense through the off season with the expectation. And it was built for him. And it was evaluated throughout training camp and paired down for him. And he's helping pick the plays as they go into each game and all. those things. And then, you know, is it, is it too much? Like, I don't know. I don't, because I don't know the play, all the plays and all the reads and everything else versus what maybe some other

young quarterback is asked to do. I think that as an overall philosophy, you have to find the middle ground of that. Like, you have to have a complicated offense enough for it to succeed in the NFL, because if you don't, if you just walk up to the line of scrimmage with a play call that's 15 and, hey, we're going to call 15 here on one. And the 15 is everybody just runs a, you know, this, everybody just runs an out route or something. I mean, if the defense is in a look that's going to intercept the out route that you're supposed to throw, but you don't have adjustments, you don't have motions, you can't change your matchups there at the line of scrimmage based on what you see. They're going to just intercept it and run it for a touchdown.

That's why college coaches stink in the NFL is because. their offenses aren't complicated enough. So that's where it becomes really, really hard to put our finger on. Are you asking too much or not? Or is it not performing? Or do you need to continue to ask a lot of him to get to the point where he gets reps doing all this stuff? Because the farther, this is where I feel about C.J.

Stroud, like the farther you push the ball down the down the road or kick the can down the road with actually having your quarterback play full quarterback, then when you need him to do it, it's kind of like Mitch Trubisky in that first year. Like, yeah, you could kind of. kind of rig it up a little bit in the first year if you have a great defense and they've never seen this quarterback before. And if you got to run game and play action and rollouts and only throw in favorable situations, but then at some point, that just isn't going to work. And then you have to, you know, turn up the dial and is he going to be able to handle it? So I think it's the

hardest thing in the sport. It is the absolute hardest thing in the sport. Adam says the Rams ran last month and 12 personnel, 83% of the time. They have changed. Yes, they have. Yes, they have. They are doing a very good job of using their bigger personnel and they're setting a trend and they're running play actions and they're working off their run game. They have my point was that, you know, when Kevin O'Connell wins the Super Bowl in 2021,

he does it with a quarterback throwing for almost 5,000 yards. So it's not an offense that's going to be rooted in. handing off a bunch of times. But big personnel, they like big personnel. I mean, they've got Josh Oliver and they use them a lot. And they run a lot out of 12 personnel. So they do mix up their personnel. Nick says,

Kirk and Sam Darno both said that KOC has a complex system. I think McCarthy was picked because they think he can learn it just a matter of time. Well, that's another part too is that, you know, McCarthy, when they picked him, they flew out to Ann Arbor and O'Connell sat down with him and they went to the whiteboard and they broke stuff down and they went out and they got on the field like a Gruden camp type of thing and had him go through stuff and had him do all this and that and everything else, right? Like, and they came away with the conclusion that he was somebody that could handle a lot

mentally. And I don't actually think that it's been the mental part for J.J. McCarthy. That's another part that's a little bit to me, I don't know. I think it's been really just the throwing of the ball and the timing where just a good example is the Jefferson drop in the end zone. And this does not apologize for Jefferson, but I was trying to figure out an explanation for why it happened. I think on that play, if you watch McCarthy, he takes two hitches forward and then lets the ball go, where I think it's supposed to be one because he's supposed to catch it coming out of his break. So think about the tiny little difference there between, you know, one step forward and throw, slower with anticipation, guide the ball in there, or one, two, and

rip, and how different that is to catch for Jefferson. And again, he should catch it. He should catch it. That's his ball to drop. No doubt about it. Change the game if he catches that ball. But the point just being that it's a little example of maybe how he makes a good decision and he finds the right receiver and there is one detail that threw off the play a little bit but that's not because he didn't throw it to the right place or he wasn't making the right decision or he didn't see where he's supposed to go with the ball it's just that he needs to hitch once instead of twice and i think that's been most of the issues which i think is is actually is better because that feels like it's easier to fix than if you don't see the field

at all. I've always thought that he sees the field pretty well. It's just that everything's happening in lightning speed and is by design down to the finest detail. And if one of those is ever so slightly off, like the, I mentioned the Melchai Stark's interception, where

Stark says, yeah, he's a little late on it. It's like, yeah, it's the right decision probably, but he's a little late on it. And you know how he's going to get not laid on it is by doing it week in and week out. Right? So I don't know, if you take away, if you start paring down the offense to where you only run screens and flats and guess what they're saying in Green Bay now. This is actually funny. Guess what they're saying

in Green Bay. They're saying that LaFleur, who has done a great job of papering over the shortcomings of Jordan Love as a complete quarterback, which at times, he is not the guy that you just want dropping back and, you know, throwing a bunch of 15, 20 yard passes. He's a lot of underneath stuff, play action, whatever. I've always thought that was a really good. approach to him they're saying they need to put more on the shoulders of jordan love so there's a guy who's paired it down built off the run game and now it's hey you actually need to do that it kind of feels like the kirk discussion for a long time lean into kirk whoa don't lead it to kirk that much no don't unlean unlean no wait no too much run game it's like where does this ever get right

if mccarthy was making a bunch of terrible decisions and had no idea where to throw the football then I would probably say, wow, they are screwing this up. But I just don't think it's that. I mean, I think that he's actually doing a good job with his overall decision making. J.K. McVeigh is evolved. They're much more balanced to KOC. No, I understand. Look, McVeigh is the best of the best.

One of the greatest coaches of all time. There's no question about that. And he's evolved based on his personnel. They've got Nekua and kind of nobody else other than Devante Adams. So they've got two receivers and that's it. so they're using this big personnel they've switched but guess where guess where mcvay came from originally shanahan system so they've gone back to some of that in 2021 it was more shotgun stuff uh and it was a lot more leaning into the pass i mean look the trend right now is yeah it's

it's a lot of play action it's a lot of bigger personnel for sure and the vikings have been missing josh oliver but when we talk about an overall philosophy there's always been coaches, and there still are, that are either run first, pass first type of coaches. And Kevin O'Connell is rooted in being a past first coach. And it's had a really good amount of success. Now, it doesn't want to playoff game. They've had two shots at that. But it's when the starting quarterback has been locked in, then it's had a lot of success.

And when his starting quarterback's not in there, he's seven and 11 because, or I should say starting, when either Darnold or Cousins is not in there, he's 7 and 11, which I think it tells you, yeah, if the quarterback can run it, then it's working. And if they can't, then it's not, which is what you get with a past first offense. So I know, like our brain, I get as much time to talk as I want. So I try to like really get into every nuance of the discussion. And I feel like in a in a yelly segment culture or like TikTok culture, it has to be the entire conclusion in one sentence. Does he suck or not?

What I'm saying is there's a lot of nuances to this, but being rooted in a past first offense is not some dumb, crazy thing to do. The game hasn't changed that much over the last couple years. And if you win the Super Bowl doing it with this offense and being in a, you know, pass first, then you're probably going to believe in that and buy into that and you've had so much success doing it. Like last year, they're 14 and 3 where they passed first offense. The league didn't change that much from last year. You've got to have the quarterback make the throws. So I think just, you know, run more, run more, run more, run more. I don't know, I guess you're going

to have to go watch the Colts. Like this team probably's never going to do it. I think they'll run more this week because the bears are not good at stopping the run. And if they do, then we'll be like, see, he adjusted even if it's just the bears stinking against the run. So, but I just don't think that overall that's ever going to be the case. Do I

agree with a lot of you when you say, hey, this is a position. I was the one banging the drum last year. Hey, you're up. How many times last year did I say, hey, you're up against Green Bay, 14 nothing, and or whatever it was. And if I think it might have been 21, if you

just if you just get a field goal here this game is absolutely over and then they throw and they throw an interception so i i mean i've been banging this drum at times of situational type of stuff uh where i i felt like yeah you need to run the ball there you need to hammer into it like hey it's like i said earlier it's working keep doing it and sometimes they don't um so i'm with you on individual type stuff but just overall yelling run more uh that seems that's just that's just not enough detail for me of just does just run more okay well then hire mike zimmer back i guess uh stephen says one key to mccarthy bouncing back oh yes the fan dual question of the day thank you stephen uh the fan dual question of the day being that mccarthy's over under is

214.5 what is your key to him bouncing back and your key stephen is accuracy and intermediate throws means no picks minimal batted balls at the line of scrimmage yep the bad at the batted balls for sure. And I think that all of that is rooted in the feet in the pocket, that when the pocket is clean, that you're not taking big steps up right into the back of the offensive lineman, that you're settling yourself and turning and throwing. I was getting some messages from Jeremiah Searle's last night about old Sam Darnold, or Sam Bradford throws, some really great Sam Bradford throws that he was looking at on tape. And just watching Bradford throw the ball, it's he gets his base and he's planted and it's more of a hip turn and drive for the football, not a long stride and throw.

And when McCarthy, you actually heard him talk about this, when McCarthy gets a little bit, I think, overanxious or deep into a game and he's trying really hard to win. And that's where some of those old habits start to come out, where there's some plays where he stays squads. and his base, and he's not over striding, that kind of thing. But then, like, last game, it happened at times. But, yes, I agree with you. Like, the turnovers that just can't happen, the accuracy on intermediate. I think actually accuracy is short passing is really key. That's where I think they need to do a lot better.

He's averaging three and a half yards a pass. I almost said per carry because that's like what you do per carry. 3.5 yards per attempt on throws that are under 10 yards between zero and 10. So not screens behind the line of scrimmage. Like that's not enough, not enough. Yes. No sage. Sorry if I'm mispronouncing that.

It's hilarious that Vikings fans are screaming for more run game and K.O. is terrible. Well, Green Bay, it's too much run and LaFleur is terrible. And what do they have in common? They lost. they lost so they i mean two weeks ago matt lafleur is coach of the year and jordan love is the MVP and now they stink like this is in a league that has so many teams that are just okay this is what this is the world we live in that's what it feels like steven says i don't think anyone is asking for a 70% run rate fans which is like a more balanced offensive approach um that i

think is very fair it's always going to lean a little bit more toward the pass and probably should from a statistical perspective, but balance the right timing to some of those things. I agree. And look, if you're going to say marry the run with the past, then you have to run successfully and then build off it. And this is a time where you can, where they may have gotten over-anxious,

which I think does happen, is when they fumble and I think there is a little bit of this pressing when it comes to the past. We've seen it in the past. And sometimes it's pressing to just win a game that you're ahead. Like, oh, we're ahead. Let's get the big explosive that ends this team. And then if you don't get it, it doesn't end that team. That's what we saw a lot of last year. This year, it's, uh-oh, we're behind pressing to come back when actually their best

comeback against Chicago started with a couple of big Jordan Mason runs. So this is where I agree. And this is where I'm asking, anytime you make this criticism, like, give me your specific thought. Like, what is it you're really getting at as opposed to just play calling or run more? Those two things are far too vague for me. But this is a good point where we can say they fumbled the ball on the kickoff. They got down 19 to 10. Then they felt like they had to get it all back on the next drive. And that's where they got away from it after a very successful run to start that drive.

And they should have probably stuck with it from there. See, that's what that's what I'm talking about. From an individual perspective, that's where I think you can have success. uh, KOC's offense is 90% throw and 10% run. That's not true. Uh, never has been. Uh, let's see. It's always been more 6040. Uh, modern moose says, uh, the kid needs work, but I'm quite fine with that. Uh, our rookie quarterback didn't magically or surprise our rookie quarterback didn't magically appear as Mahomes 2.0.

I think he'll be fine. Give him time. Yeah, I mean, look, um, in terms of whether he will be fine or not, don't think anybody knows we just really don't know whether he's going to be fine or not i think both outcomes are on the table there is an outcome on the table that he doesn't work out of course there is uh and there's an outcome on the table where he's in the middle and he's frustrating and there's an outcome on the table where he's absolutely fantastic and i don't know which one of it's going to be right now that's that's my point is when you say well he'll be fine and i see this a lot on like well well you know you're talking about this that he'll be fine Like, we don't know if he'll be fine.

We just, we don't know anything at the moment. All we know is that, see, now, and the other thing is, too, that, and I'm guilty of this, where I talked about, hey, he's not a rookie quarterback. He learned a lot last year. And then he looked way more like a rookie than I expected. But now it's, oh, he's a rookie quarterback. Well, that's not really true. I mean, we also have to hold them to a standard of a team that was trying to win now,

thought that he was ready to win. now and he has been in this league for two years but the stuff that we're talking about with the technical throwing elements that's where he has not had those those years so in terms of running an offense understanding an offense handling all the KOC has to give him that's where he has two years and I that's and that's where I think a little bit of that is it too complex breaks down because he has had two years with the offense he just hasn't had of the running of the offense, which is where some of the timing and the throws end up getting, uh, you know, getting messed up. But we're in a spot of not knowing much more than saying, oh, it'll be fine or,

oh, it's terrible. It's all over. So, uh, thank you so much to Dilly for the super chat. Sorry, I'm just getting to it. Dilly. That was probably an hour ago. I apologize for that. Um, so Dilly says, uh, the best thing for bouncing back is to continue to stay healthy so he can finish the season to get more reps. Hopefully he can finish the season on a high note going into next year. Again, thank you so much for that super chat. Definitely not required, but always, always appreciated. Um, as far as staying healthy, it's, it's absolutely vital. And that's where this, the hand injury is, okay, I'm, I'm going to, like they don't seem to be panicking over it. So it should be okay. But if it becomes a thing, then you start to wonder about how that could affect it. But I don't

want to go down that road because they're talking about it as if there should be no impact other than being limited in today's practice, no impact on the actual game status. That you were answering, I believe the Fandual question of the day, which was McCarthy, 214.5 is his yardage over under on Fanduel. What is your key to him bouncing back? So let me get back here. Nicholas says next two years will tell us a lot about COC, not a lot of 2020 coaching hires left. Yeah, isn't it crazy? And that's when it comes to firing coaches, you better be sure because there are a lot of coaches who cannot do this and are just bad. I don't think that Brian Daibel was a horrible coach, but clearly, you know, when you're losing the way that he was losing, you've lost control there.

and you haven't been able to just produce enough. And that's where, hey, a lot of people like Brian Dable, a lot of people think he's a smart coach and he's really good, but results are the thing that at the end of the day matters. As far as KOC goes, I'm not ready for that discussion of like, how do we judge KOC? If McCarthy doesn't work out, then where does this go? And I don't think I, we're just not there yet.

This is a head coach to me who's proven enough over three years that I don't think that that discussion becomes at all appropriate. I mean, I know that people love to say someone should be fired. They love when someone is fired. It's, I guess, very exciting when a coach is fired because hope springs eternal at that point. You've gotten so mad at the other person that you love to see them fired. But also, it's ridiculous to talk about. And I feel the same way about LaFleur and Green Bay. It's just, I'm sure it's really fun to let out your rage by saying someone should be fired, but it's absurd to talk about. I don't, and you brought up a great example.

There's so many of those 20, 22 coaches who just couldn't coach at all. Josh McDaniels, Nate Hackett, those guys, oh my gosh, we're not even close to being a good NFL coaches. You have a good NFL head coach who was coach of the year last year. Sometimes you would think that he went, you know, three and 14 last year with the way it's talked about. But then if I point out his win, loss record and award from last year, well, stop defending KOC.

That's a little frustrating for me this week, I guess. But the point just being that there is a body of work here that to me doesn't warrant any sort of even remote discussion about something like that. It's really more of how can this coach and this quarterback best pair themselves together for this team to succeed. And if McCarthy is not succeeding, then what can the coach do to get him back on track? and there might be nothing. I think that there's a lot there to work with.

So it shouldn't be nothing. And maybe that's a hard part too for fans. It's like you see the flashes, you see the moments. It's not like there's nothing there, but consistency probably is going to come with time. Let's see. Nicholas says even as bad as JJ's game versus Baltimore was,

if Jefferson catches the one off his hands, doesn't trip, return we probably would have won the game now you're right about that i mean i don't know if you win or not but you're right about how you know some of these games that play out and this is a discussion i was having with some in the locker room today just about how and that's what keeps you up at night about football sometimes is you're exactly right uh and i grew up in buffalo and if uh the kicker kicks it five feet to the left is set of wide right then they would have a super bowl and the same thing goes for the folks of Minnesota with a kick to the wide left probably would have a Super Bowl

and like that's football. It drives you crazy because you're right. If you don't fumble a kickoff, it's 12 to 10 at that point. If Jefferson catches that ball and I saw a win probability chart that their win probability would have been 20% higher if he catches that ball and goes into the end zone. And then maybe McCarthy's playing very differently. And then he's not having to throw the ball 40-something times. And then they maybe are getting him some easier looks and building off the run. And everything could play out so much differently. Unfortunately, that is imagination land.

And we can't really play an imagination land because we don't know what would have really happened after that. But I do agree that it wasn't like the game was anywhere as atrocious as I feel like the response to the game was like it was bad and they were outplayed at the end of the day by the Ravens and probably didn't even deserve a chance to have the ball at the end to try to go tie considering the big mistakes they made and big mistakes are what determines whether you win or lose but there were also some circumstances that caused them to get behind in the game and then it was like they had lost by 40 when that was not the case I mean their losses

Pittsburgh was kind of this way. It was like, well, you know, they had a chance to come back at the end. They had some big mistakes. And again, it felt like you lost by 40 as opposed to three or as opposed to eight. There are other games this year that have been worthy of that type of reaction like against Los Angeles or against Atlanta. So not saying it was good. But there is part of it that's like, okay, it was rough.

It wasn't the worst quarterback play. of us have ever seen. It wasn't the worst loss we've ever seen the Vikings have. And the other team has Lamar Jackson and they're very good. And sometimes you don't win. So, but all that stuff. I mean, it is self-inflicted in some ways. It's like if the, I don't know if it was, but if the timing is off or, you know, Jefferson is not as focused because he's frustrated or it's like all, it all kind of stems back to, um, they need to play a certain way in order to win with McCarthy right now. and they did not play that way against the Baltimore Ravens. Marcus says, I get the K.O. wants to get the ball to Jets, but there are other receivers to

throw that are open. Yeah, it's true, but they've also had a very good offense driven by Justin Jefferson. And he can't have 50 yards game with J.J. McCarthy in a quarterback. No other quarterback that we've seen run this team has had this little success throwing to Justin the Jefferson. This, this offense works to get Jefferson the football. The quarterback has to deliver it. Even when Nick Mullins can do it, the quarterback has to deliver it. Mullins didn't know where to go with the ball, though. I mean, he was very good at that. He just couldn't really throw it there. Nor the Pride says, I wish McCarthy had just run the ball himself a few of those times on third and fourth down, had lots of room. The interception he had, he had, yes, he had room.

And sometimes it's felt like he almost wants to, and I don't know, I don't want to get into. side of his head. But it's almost felt like he wants to prove he can make the throw when he's scrambling as opposed to just taking the run. And it also has felt like he wants to prove that he can throw it to the downfield option as opposed to the checkdown. And I think that's what Kevin O'Connell is trying to really emphasize here. Friends of Taz says the fact that Darnold is bawling out is what makes watching the Vikings' offensive struggles feel magnified. There's a lot of people who will try to deny that. There's no denying it that that is absolutely true that the success of Sam Darnold is adding to the angst of Minnesota Vikings fans.

I don't know how it couldn't and the team. I'm sure. I'm sure the team, the organization, I'm sure everybody. You can't miss it. The guy's playing at an MVP level. And the whole thought was, well, we can whisper a quarterback. Look what we did with Darnold. And then, oh, he's playing even better the next year. And we'll see how he does from here. He's got some injuries on his offensive line. His center is hurt. And he will have, I'm sure, some challenges coming up, including Brian Flores' defense, where maybe he looks like the bad version of Sam Darnold that we haven't seen all year for Seattle. He's not the best quarterback in the NFL, I don't think. But when you see a quarterback playing like that, who you had just had win 14 games for you

last year, how does that not factor into how you feel about J.J. McCarthy and his development in that decision? How do we separate the Darnold Jones to some extent, Rogers, but let's just stick with those two. Decision, the timeline, the roster strength, what happened last year, separate that from J.J. McCarthy in reasonable analysis of his development. That's my question, because you can't. You can't because they made a a bet that his development would be faster than this, and it hasn't been. That doesn't mean he's a bust, but it means that they did make that bet. They did make that assumption that his development was going to be farther along at this

point than it has been. They made that bet with the roster build, and they put the money into the roster based on the idea he was going to be better than that. And if the goalposts get moved around, I'm not going to be too pleased when it comes to if we hear, well, this was always going to be. going to be a year to develop JJ. No, it freaking wasn't. This was supposed to be a year to win. And I, and the receipts are in over the cap.com. So I don't want to hear any of that. It's a factor for how it looks and how it feels for them to

have gone to him. But we don't have to put that all on JJ all the time. That's a bigger, more global. It's a more complicated thing because of the cap, because of the politics of a decision like that. If Sam Darnold gets franchise tagged and then he has a tough game against Atlanta in week two with the tackles out, then the stadium is booing and cheering for McCarthy because they have created Myth Carthy in their heads that he was this perfect, flawless, absolutely marvelous QB1 in waiting Mahomes level type of magical quarterback. He was everything that Darnold wasn't in people's heads. We have to remember that, that the reaction to any Darnold failure would have been,

oh, we could have been spending all this money. It's Kirk all over again. So we have to keep that in mind that Darnold wouldn't have signed here because of that. He wouldn't have signed when he had to have looking over his shoulder. And the only way to keep him would have been tagging him, which would have made things a lot more tricky. But if you deny that it's weighing into the angst about this whole thing, then I think you're fooling yourself. but this was supposed to be a year to win and it still can be. I don't think that that's over.

I said they have to win two out of four and they have to be 500 by the time they get to, let's see, six and six is probably the worst they could do because that's when they have some easy games coming up after that. And if you can get, I mean, think about this. If you go 500 through the Seattle game after Detroit. So you're six and six. And then you have Washington. and the Giants, who am I missing?

Somebody else in there that's a winnable game. Oh, Dallas, a winnable game. And you get two out of three there. I mean, then you're in it. Right. So I don't even think that the season is over in the way that we've talked about it based on the fact they needed to beat Detroit in order to have that happen to not be over. And they did beat Detroit.

So they're not in a position where the whole thing's been decided yet. Modern Moose says folks don't really understand the level of physicality in the NFL, how hard is to stay healthy. That's definitely true. Yeah, well, it's so much easier to sit home and just call people injury prone than, you know, stuff like that. It's, it's very easy to say a lot of stuff because there's no consequences to say and stuff. Joe says, I feel like I've heard a lot of QBs say it's easier to protect yourself head first. Yeah, I don't know. I have never slid head first or feet first.

I do know if you take a shot sliding feet first. It's pretty tough. CJ says Dante needed time. JJ has a hodgepodge of playing and sitting over his first two years. If the results end up similar, I'd take Dante's 2000, 2004. from JJ. Yeah, well, those are amazing years. Yeah, those are the highest possible end. The highest possible end of what we could see from J.J. McCarthy. But to your point, Dante, even from year to year, had his ups and downs. But the world didn't see everybody else's

reactions and make everyone panic all the time in the same way that they do now. The media world, the social media world has really changed just how all of that works. because now we're in a spot where if the team is down three to nothing, then a hundred people right in front of your face are writing messages. This is why we do a substack chat and I don't tweet anymore during games because it just made me unhappy to see tweets during games. So I just completely shut it off. I just thought, this is distracting.

It's distracting to be this distressed that people are acting like their house is on fire because the team gave up a third down conversion. So to me, like, that freak out just permeates everywhere and that didn't use to happen because we just didn't have that much access. You'd have your local writers write about it and maybe Patrick Royce take a jab at them or something and Sid would write that everything was fine and you'd go forward from there and talk about it at the watercool with your friends as opposed to logging on every day and just seeing a hundred other people tweet as if they're dying with every single place. so I think that weighs into just how we feel rushed to have the answers on all of these things when even as you mentioned with Dante or there's other quarterbacks throughout history where there's been ups and downs and eventually you get to the other side with it but I'm sure the ups and downs didn't feel like this where every single week ends up being

just painful if it's a down week. Jets and Hitman earned the right to be called those names. Okay, so he's got a, he's got to earn the right to call himself his number on his jersey. Okay, get over yourself. He's 22 years old. I don't know, man. We don't, we don't have to be that way. Uh, let's see.

Take a quick little, uh, died Dr. P here. Joe says, so you need, we need a montage for McCarthy. Well, that's really it, right? That's what I'm talking about is that the week to week can be, can be very stressful. The play to play can be very stressful. What we need is a montage. That's right.

We need a montage of McCarthy and O'Connell, and they're in a field in the snow in Russia. And he has two wolves tied. around his feet and he's saying if you don't get the footwork right then the wolves bite you every time and so then he throws one with too long of a stride and the wolf bites him gah and he does it again gah and then he finally gets it right as the music is playing of eye of the tiger and then he finally clicks it and then he climbs a mountain right that's what we need here we need to simulate what we really need for this discussion is to simulate like six weeks later

and see how it looks. But we can't do that. So that's why we break down the nuances of what's going on from a day-to-day basis. And then we'll start to get there a little bit later and really figured out. It's like Mr. Miyagi. That's, yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah, it's like a Rocky or that kind of thing. That's what they need.

I just got to do that. That's funny. Steve says with the bruised hand, because he'd be more, could he be more accurate? Jay, why is KOC not been able to win a playoff game? I mean, do you need me to explain that to you, Jay? I think that you saw them. Eric, how can we avoid the batted balls?

That's a good question. So my takeaway for the batted balls was, number one, if you look at batted balls, it's pretty random year to year. I mean, and that makes sense, right? That, that fits. So just for example, this year, Caleb Williams is number one in batted balls. I'll take a look at who was, was he number one last year? So is there something?

He was, no, this year, Caleb Williams has as many batted balls as he did all of last year. So, I don't know. Kirk was a good example of where he had some years, he had a lot. Some years he didn't have that many. But I don't think. that it was entirely random in this game. I think what the Ravens did was they had a plan. They had a plan to push the pocket and get their hands up because they don't have guys that are just going to win quick. So they were strategizing to do it. I also think when you take a big

stride right up to the line of scrimmage where let's say you're dropping back to, let's just call it 10 yards. You drop back, set at 10 yards. And then what you want to do is you want to hitch but you don't want to like leap forward and there were a time or two where his hitch was whoop to five yards and once you get there then you are right up the offensive lineman's back end and then you're trying to throw over and sometimes those hitches sent him a little bit like maybe left he's trying to throw back right and the arm comes down a little bit and then it's a low trajectory, and I think that his throws are a low trajectory anyway, so he might have a lot of these throughout his career, I suppose, and teams are going to think about that.

But that was the reason that I came away with, and they're probably going to look at that into the future. Let's see. Modern moves, people trashed KOC without acknowledging how many different starting quarterbacks he's had to coach. well look i mean if you're an NFL head coach this is where i don't cry any tears for kevin o'connell he's got a big contract extension he's gotten a ton of praise throughout his time coaching this team nationally he's gotten a ton of praise and all that sort of thing coach of the

year last year and he's deserved it when you win 14 games with sam darnold he's earned it in the locker room he's earned it in the nfl p a survey uh the culture thing doesn't mean much to you guys but it means a lot to them and that sort of thing. And I think if you were an NFL player, you'd want to be coached by someone like Kevin O'Connell. And there's a lot to be said for teams can fight through a lot if they're playing for their coach and they believe in their culture and all that sort of stuff.

Okay, so all that to be said. But I also think that when it comes to you're in that position and you make the bet that you make and you're the quarterback guy, so you are the number one guy in terms of that. decision and you're putting it on you to develop the quarterback that we tie you two together. And McCarthy's success will be tied to Kevin O'Connell and his success going forward and the way that he's viewed. I don't think there's any doubt about that unless a Brock Purdy situation should come about.

And then you get the Kyle Shanahan treatment. And you are right that when you look at all of those coaches from 2022 that got fired, what do they have in common is that there's very few franchise quarterbacks that. that those guys had the incoming class of 2022. McDaniels gets Jimmy Garoppolo for the Raiders, and he's fired pretty quickly. And, you know, Trevor Lawrence is what? Is he going to melt down this year and get another coach fired?

How many coaches need to be fired because Trevor Lawrence isn't that great? And I mean, Brian Dable with Daniel Jones, and he didn't have the supporting cast like he has now. And I also don't think Daniel Jones is going to continue to play all this well, that he's played. so far with the Colts, but still, maybe you could look at that one and say, well, they had a quarterback and they let it get away. That might be fair for Dayball.

But for the most part, the quarterback, the coaches who are either on the hot seat or fired from the 2022 class, most of them didn't have franchise quarterbacks. Now, that also, it's not like you didn't have anybody. Darnold is clearly very good. Kirk was very good. So it's not like he had nobody at the quarterback position, just not, a franchise quarterback to work with, and that's why they pick McCarthy, but things like that don't happen immediately.

And when they haven't had either of those two guys in, they haven't had anywhere near the success. They're a below 500 team when anybody else plays, and they're a 66% win percentage team when those guys play. Marauder, the Vikings have a high drop rate. How is that JJ's fault? Well, uh, do they have a lot? high drop rate as a team. I mean, I don't know if they actually do. I'm not sure. I guess I'd

have to find that stat. I don't know where to find that stat. Is there a PFF? Who's got the most drops? I guess I could look how many, let's see, maybe I could find this. Well, also catch it, like how catchable your ball is, is a thing. That doesn't come from me. That comes from Kurt Warner when I did my article on him. And he talked about, catchable ball but let's see how many drops do they have this year as a team they have 13 as a team how many did they have last year they had last year they had 19 so they are on pace to have more than last year how many they have in 2023 drops seem like an up they had 30 wow 30 in 2023 what does that correlate with not having your

starting quarterback. Interesting. But, so not as many drops as 20, 23, more per game than last year. 13 doesn't seem like a super high number to me. They've had some notable ones, though. They have had some notable ones. And the Jefferson one is a bad one. And it changes everything. But also, this is what happens when your quarterback's not playing that great, is that we obsess over one or two plays with great quarterbacks. If there's a mistake that gets made, there's like, okay, that next play that was a big one though it was two dog dad says McCarthy looks like he rarely gets to his second read uh and leads with his eyes and not his feet i don't know just spitballing well isn't that what we're all doing two dog dad is we're just all spitballing when it comes to

this i think he wants to get to his first place to go with the ball and sometimes doesn't get there on time like that does happen but he does look like he is trying to go through reads it's just if i mean i feel like i'm out of my depth if i say he's supposed to go here to one two and three like i'm not j t o sullivan terms of breaking down the film uh l or why says uh do you see any difference in jj's training camp performance versus the last four games that he played in i understand one practice or another is not a real game well that i mean that's the biggest thing is that in training camp yeah we saw a lot of the the high stuff that you see. We saw the arm strength. We saw the velocity. We saw balls fly 10 feet over

receivers. So that did happen at times. Where the biggest difference is, is that you don't have in practice a situation like you ran into against the Ravens. You cannot simulate it. You cannot simulate. You're down two scores in the third quarter at home. You've jumped off sides five times and your number one receiver has dropped a touchdown pass and is clearly not happy and there's 70,000 people staring at you going WTF, man, get it together, right? We all paid way more money than we should have to come see you and now you're letting us down and like there's coaches that are trying to yell instructions to you and the other team is apparently shouting out things at the line of scrimmage and all your teammates are

looking at you to make a play like that's not you can't simulate that you can't simulate a qb hit early in the game where he gets smacked or something which may throw him off or hitting your hand on a helmet because there's a pass rush like there's things in real games can't be simulated so we can only from practice we can only take away a lot of the raw tool stuff as opposed to the stuff that is going to matter when the game is the game that's why they call guys gamers sometimes because maybe in practice, you can't always tell everything that they can do, but they get into a game. And it's like, okay, they're, they're going to manage that whole situation.

Nicholas says, how much has, um, the O line and C.J. Ham injuries messed up the run game. Well, so I, yeah, I think that in the past of this season, it has, but not the last game. And Ham being back, they should be able to do whatever they want to do. They were using big personnel. the run game was unsuccessful a little bit early on and then got better as it went along. They can run now. I think they've got, especially if they get Oliver back, they'll be, they should be able to run. This is a game where it's a test case because I don't think that Kevin O'Connell should be

reading every internet post that says, bro, you need to run more, run more, run more, run more, or listening to every podcast telling him to run more. However, you have the Chicago Bears whose defense is not special and who I believe you can run successfully against with almost the full offensive line. Ham, if Oliver comes back, you got everything you need. Mason, Jones looks really good. This would be a situation where, and it's funny, because I, you know, I defend the pass first. It's the philosophy. They're going to keep doing it.

But this, in this case, you really should be able to run the ball and lead. with the run. Absolutely should be able to do that this week. And with the current circumstances. I think previously before the Ravens game, there was plausible deniability for that. And they did run a lot in the game. They were up by 30. But against Cincinnati, but to not see it in certain circumstances last week, see it completely disappear. Yeah, that's, that's where there, you have a good enough run game to be able to lead on that. Marauder doing the same thing 20 times in a row

even if it's to Jefferson fails every time. Does it? Does it? Justin Jefferson what did he do last year? 1,500 and 33 yards

and 10 touchdowns 68.7% completion percentage on throws his way. Does it? 2022. 1,809 yards, 14 yards a catch, eight touchdowns. In those seasons, they won 27 total regular season games.

I don't know, man. I think that offense that's built around the best receiver in the world is probably like a good idea. I mean, I just don't know what else, like this is, you're just hoping and hunting and looking for anything, just grasping at any straw. When the answer is probably, the simplest one is that he needs more time to develop and it wasn't a great game.

If we're saying now all of a sudden it's wrong to throw to the top wide receiver, then I guess you need to go back to your Mike Zimmer era where they didn't want to do it enough. And, you know, Zimmer would argue with the offensive coordinator who wanted to do it enough. I mean, that's that's the trouble too. Like if you, if you, if you absolutely refuse to place any blame on the guy throwing the football, it really doesn't hold up very well when we have such a sample size. of other guys throwing the same football to the same receivers. That's the trouble.

It's okay to say he was really inaccurate in one game and without saying it is the same goes for the Atlanta game. Like it went bad and it was a million excuses and some explanations and all that stuff. That didn't, it doesn't have to mean it's over. It just means that that night it did not go the way it was supposed to go for him. So are you saying this is a kick ass offense because it's. seems like that lately. Well, what I'm saying is that it certainly kicked a lot of ass last year. I mean, I just like, I don't know how many other ways to say it. If this was

Kevin O'Connell's first year coaching football and this was how it looked, I think we would be saying, yeah, what is going on here? Be like a Shane Waldron type of discussion. But we have a sample size. We have things to work with like Justin Jefferson being the offensive player of the year. So all of a sudden it's, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. Everybody's wrong, except for JJ. Well, that doesn't, that doesn't quite seem to add up. Stephen, what about Grenard's availability? I don't know. You know, KOC said maybe, and that's the best we could do on that. He's been the designated chaser, a rounder of Caleb Williams. Brett, thank you so much for the enormous super chat.

Again, not something you have to do, but really, really greatly appreciate that. Brett says the key for JJ bouncing is to slow down, I assume he's bouncing back and trust his footwork and mechanics as the game progresses. His first quarters are great. Yep, that's when he's also within the first 15 plays that they've practiced. Boogie says, what about JJ's throwing motion do you not like? Well, there's a couple things that I don't like. and this is when it gets bad because Brett's point is exactly right.

He comes out in the plays that he's comfortable with and then his throwing motion looks much better to me. The stride gets too long and you can do this in your house if you like. If you have your stride get too long, where does my shoulder go? It goes up. You want your shoulder. So you golfers know this. When you hit the ball, if you're a good golfer, you know this.

your left shoulder does not go up in the air your left shoulder goes toward the target and then the club comes up behind right it's the same thing for throwing a football and the reason that i and i'm not a quarterback but i feel pretty confident in this is i've seen them throw well with darnold and bradford watched a lot of these guys throw the ball and kirk had some good things about his throwing motion but i think uh kirk wasn't as physically built as these other guys Bradford, not a top draft pick for a reason. So his throwing motion was different. But Bradford's the best throw I've ever seen.

And Bradford had a pretty compact windup. He didn't bring the ball way down. And this is another problem too. When you overstride, the ball comes down. And with the ball coming down, so does your head. And if you wanted to throw the ball from me to you, would you move your head around and throw it? Or would you stare right at your target and throw it? if you've ever seen dart throwers what do they do great NBA shooters what do they do

baseball hitters you can draw a box around baseball hitters heads they do not move out of that box so what you want to focus on with McCarthy when you're watching is the more times that his head stays steady and on a on a flat level and he's throwing really from driving from the back foot not in a stride but more of a turn and these are all the best throws that he's made this year are like this. Then that's what they're trying. And this is also listening to KOC and what they want to. But that's how he's looking to do it.

And he has. But as he had said, bad habits start to come about when you get in those kind of panic situations. And that's where Brett's exactly right. So, Joshua says, you know what's coming. cliche crap excuses for losing. well, I mean, what happens when they lose is never, never anything anybody wants. I've seen every different approach to it. Aaron Glenn's yelling at the media over injuries.

You've seen coaches who are sort of sad about losing at the podium. There's coaches that have wordy explanations about losing at the podium. No, no, but 100% of the time, it's not taken well by the public. You know why? because they're losing. That's exactly why. So no matter what anybody says about it, you got to win. Jay says we have zero time for development. Well, you know, I mean, no, I don't think it's zero time.

But if they're going to make the playoffs this year, then I suppose that's true. I mean, I think that when it comes to development, the way they set up the timeline and and where McCarthy was supposed to peak was probably 2026 because they didn't know just like you didn't know and I didn't know exactly what was going to come this year. I do think that they felt that it would be farther along than this. There's no doubt about that. You don't spend like this unless you would think that. You would have played it conservatively this off season and then next off season is where you

would have gone crazy if you didn't think that this was going to be any good or that McCarthy wasn't going to be anywhere close. So, yeah, in general, feel where you're coming from when you say that. Like, you don't have time. But I don't think that you have to look at four games and say, well, we've got our answer onto the next quarterback. So you do have time the rest of this season for development and then into next off

season. But then you're probably right that, like, that's where it's going to make or break. This year is probably not the make or break. Matt says six and six and run through the bad team. probably still need a win in the division wild card will be tough yep but if they if they got to nine and eight and even lost the wild card that would be pretty impressive uh last samurai last samurai sounds like something i was describing earlier uh says uh the ponder comparisons are crazy people have to chill yeah no i i agree with that i agree with that there there was a serious

lack of um confidence from uh ponder that i don't think that that McCarthy has. Let's see. Can we simulate the rest of the season and see if this team has secret superstars? Yeah, I mean, I'd love to simulate at least a few weeks to know a little bit better about where they're at with McCarthy and the playoff race and everything else. But I also enjoy the journey. I know that it's excruciating for some of you.

So, you know, but I mean, I'm planning to go to Lambo. So I'm excited about that, planning this weekend, excited about that. Brian says, thanks for continuing level-headed coverage. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it's not, Brian. But on a Wednesday it is. Sunday after the game, I can't make any guarantees. What are you most looking forward to for the rest of this season?

Well, I mean, the number one is just, you know, I'm looking for answers. as much as you are on the quarterback situation. And it really depends on how these next two weeks go because, I mean, like I said, I'm looking forward to going to Lambeau Field. It's always one of my favorite trips of the year. It's honestly, you know, I know you, it makes you sick to hear the Packers talk about their history and the majesty and all that stuff. But it is if you've gone, if you're a Vikings fan who's driven down there,

you know all about it. you know what, how unique and special that is in sports in a sports world where they're trying to dome everything, uh, that, uh, you know, Lambo's pretty cool. I, I mean, I think the, the one of the, the tough things about this team is that when we talk about like looking forward to stuff, there's just not a lot that they've given you to say, oh, I'm really looking forward to the development of this guy or what this guy becomes because we mostly know what every guy is. Jalen Redman's had an amazing season, but it's, Is there, is there three other players where you're like, can't wait to see?

I mean, I'm interested in where Dallas Turner takes this, Donovan Jackson and his continued progress. But really, I mean, I'm interested to see if they give us all a reason to think that they can make the playoffs, to care about those games at the end of the year, for those to mean something. I expect that they will, but I just don't know because it's a lot harder to shape expectations when you're still trying to figure out can the quarterback play on a weekly basis.

But if they give us a reason to show up at the stadium on Christmas Day, if they give us a reason for that next week to matter, that would be very exciting, I think, for everybody. That means it's gone really well. So if they get to that point, then something really good has happened. If they don't in those last two games are just kind of bleh, then there ain't much to to be too thrilled about at that point. So, let's see. Okay, so probably need to call it a wrap

if I'm going to get my writing done for the day. Got a couple of fun articles on the way, which you can check out over Purple Insider. Football. One thing I'm working on is quarterbacks under center. I had a great conversation with Blake Cashman, Kevin O'Connell, maybe some of you heard answer my question. so I've got something on that and also was talking to some players today

about how the kick return is helping them develop as young players. Boogie says if we had Kyle Shanahan, we'd be six and three. Could be. He's a great coach. I don't disagree with that. Kyle Shanahan, I think, is probably the best at what you guys are talking about. Whatever the in between is, the extreme passing offense, the extreme rushing, offense where you just have this balance and it's it's right there for the quarterback to

play of course you don't need to keep in mind if you're touting kyle shanahan that he drafted tray lance and ended up playing a seventh round draft pick instead so nobody nobody is really a quarterback whisperer and that was uh part of my article even talking about how bill walsh spent a first round the goat quarterback teacher spent a first round draft pick on Jim Druck and Miller, who played a start in one game in his career. So nobody, nobody has the magic wand. Nobody has the ability to, what did I say, go to Russia and strap wolves to the quarterback or something and have them run up a mountain.

That's not how it works. And experience is usually the best teacher. And that's what JJ McCarthy is going to get as long as his hand heals. And we'll keep track of that as always. So don't forget if you haven't in the comment section, if you're rewatching, answer that Fandul question of the day, which is J.J. McCarthy's over under for this game on Fandul is 214.5. What is your one key to a McCarthy bounceback? So thanks everybody for watching slash listening. Sorry about the, there's a little bit early on in the video, a little bit of

drop frames. Hopefully that worked itself out after a while. And I'll blame Aurora Borealis for that, I guess, I don't know, maybe a little internet glitchiness. But I think we're good, most of the show. So thanks everybody again for watching slash listening. And we will see you, yeah, tomorrow night. See you then. Mani will be back to pick the schedule. That should be pretty fun.

So we'll catch you then. Football.