Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Josh Dobbs does it again as Vikings beat Saints and now appear dangerous in the NFC

Episode Date: November 13, 2023

Matthew Coller and Dane Mizutani of the Pioneer Press talk about Josh Dobbs leading the Vikings to victory with a terrific performance over the New Orleans Saints. How Dobbs stepped up and the defense continues to have different players shine each week. Are the Vikings now a dangerous NFC team? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome inside US Bank Stadium for another Minnesota Vikings postgame show where we talk about an incredible win for the Vikings as Josh Dobbs goes off in the first half of this game along with, of course, T.J. Hawkinson as well with an historic first half of the game and the Vikings hold on to win Matthew Collar, Dane Mizutani, the Pioneer Press as always. And, you know, I was thinking as we were walking in here, Dane, about where we were two weeks ago. You and I were sitting on two little couches or chairs or whatever inside Lambeau Field

talking about whether the Vikings should try to call Tom Brady and woo him out of retirement to take over the quarterback position of the Vikings. Instead, they trade for Josh Dobbs. And we think, okay, well, all right, you know, whatever. He's a guy he's played in the league, I guess. And that it splits the difference between really going after a guy and not doing anything at all. Two weeks later, the Vikings are now six and four. They are in prime position playoff wise, especially because the rest of the NFC has very few contenders outside of the top of the conference. And we are not just talking about Josh Dobbs gutting out some random wins

where they got lucky. We are talking about Josh Dobbs playing fantastic football. And look, the second half, we're going to get to it. I know that they played a lot more conservatively with a purpose, according to Kevin O'Connell, but Dobbs was delivering passes on time. He was going through his progressions. He was finding TJ Hawkinson over and over as they were short KJ Osborne and Justin Jefferson today. And then he has added an element of which I have to rub my eyes every time. What am I seeing? What running from the quarterback position? We have not seen this in like five years. So

it's been a remarkable couple of weeks and this against a really good defense for the Saints. It was top 10 in the league is extremely, extremely impressive across the board. Yeah. Outside of actually convincing Tom Brady to come out of retirement. This is like best case scenario because obviously they're winning, but they're fun. They're fun again, right? Like the Vikings are a fun football team. they're fun they're fun again right like the Vikings are a fun football team they're fun offense to watch and and Josh Jobs is at the epicenter of that and I think today's performance was huge not only for him himself his confidence but for the

Vikings as a whole because as incredible as last week was you could look at it as just one of those games adrenaline pumping you know literally hearing the plays in your helmet and going out there and playing off of instincts and you know sometimes those things just work out like when you're not thinking you almost sometimes as an athlete play better which is why today was huge because it was proof that it wasn't a fluke last week and it's proof that this guy can play the position and he can play it really, really well. He's not just a running quarterback. Who's going to look for the play to break down and dart out of the pocket and

try and get as many yards as he can put himself in harm's way while doing it. He was talking to us after the game, he's going through every progression and then let's not forget that's a good saints defense on the other side. So sometimes the progression takes him through his first, second, third, fourth read. It's not there. Then he's bailing. But you saw him hanging.

You saw him padding the ball, just playing the quarterback position like a seasoned veteran, which when you look back on it, his career as a whole, it's amazing the story that's led him to this point. But it's pretty clear he's had talent he was a backup quarterback for a long time in Pittsburgh then when he did get a couple opportunities he was on bad teams with bad talent around him this is as good of a situation as he's ever been in and I mean I guess you juxtapose it with what's going on in Arizona where they're basically outwardly tanking and he comes here to Minnesota in the past two weeks. He's the talk of the NFL and for absolute good reason.

Yeah, I think what was impressive to me is after the game, Kevin O'Connell said we gave him a full game plan this week, and he joked about how he ate every single meal inside TCO Performance Center. Hey, this is a guy that knows how to study and I'm not going to quit making the jokes about him being a rocket scientist. He threw a couple of rockets out there. This team going to the moon. Yeah, you're going to hear that a lot more. But in all seriousness, though, like this is a guy who's had to go through a crazy amount of stress in the last couple of weeks. He just moved out of the hotel and into an apartment in the twin cities. And so he's had so many things going on in his life. And yet he was able to handle getting an entire game plan down and then coming

out from the outset and executing it. We saw even in the opening drive, they didn't score a touchdown. They ended up with just a field goal on the opening drive, but he looked very comfortable. He looked like he knew exactly where he was going with the ball. It didn't look like he was making it up as he went along. And a lot of times with scrambling quarterbacks, we kind of have this in our mind of, well, they don't really know what they're doing and they kind of just like run around and make it all up or whatever. And for some backup quarterbacks who get thrown in games, that does happen.

I think Taylor Heineke was one of those guys last week who kind of has great athleticism and just sort of makes it up as he goes along. But you have Josh Dobbs really standing in the pocket on a number of plays. And he broke down for us the touchdown pass to TJ Hawkinson, which to me took this game from, OK, like they're ahead and we'll see what happens to. Wow, that was one of the best halves of football they have had. I don't even know what since 2019, like in a long time, it was that was one of the best halves of football they have had. I don't even know what since 2019, like in a long time, it was a tremendous half of football that they put together

and it was playing from ahead. It was leading, but that play in particular, he knew exactly what he was looking for the defense. He said that he talked to, I think either Kevin O'Connell or their quarterback coach on the sideline before the play saying like, what are we, or before that drive, what are we going to look for if we get this look? And then he finds Hawkinson coming across the field, puts it right on him. And you talked about it. I wonder if coming out of college that teams were like, you know, Josh Dobbs has got some talent, but also wants to be a rocket scientist. And like, does he really play? No one believes that you can do both and i

understand why because most people can't do either uh not not anywhere close not anywhere close how the hell does he do both i have no idea but his skill set is not that of a backup quarterback is what i'm getting to he is he has the the speed the athleticism the arm strength to play at a high level as a quarterback. And that's why I look at this and go, yeah, I mean, I am surprised, but I also think nothing fluky happened today. No, no, it didn't. And I kind of want to work backwards, but you mentioned that touchdown pass to TJ Hawkinson right before halftime. And I thought hearing him just break down the coverage he saw in front of him. I think this question was simple.

It was, can you take our take us through that touchdown right before halftime? And he didn't just say, like, I saw TJ running open and I threw him the ball and he didn't dumb it down for us. He took us through his reads, his progressions, you know, how he worked. This side of the field came back to TJ Hawkinson, knowing that this was the look they were going to get. And you could almost in that moment, see how he thinks the position. And it it's, I think it's next level.

I mean, I think in order to do what you did last week and parlay it into what you've done this week, it needs to have that next level feel for the game. So I was really impressed with that play, but also hearing him talk about that play. But to your point about this is not being like a fluky like he's very talented like i think i talked to you into the game and you sit behind me i said like a row in front of you and i stood up and i looked at you in the middle of the game and i said i know this is going to sound crazy but he kind of plays the position

like josh allen and and i you know the comment section might blow up and say like Josh Dobbs being compared to Josh Allen. I'm not doing that, but I am saying there are elements to the way this guy plays football that looked like just a quarterback who is going to succeed and has what it takes to succeed in this league. He is scrambling, but he's keeping his eyes downfield. I think last week you asked me like, when was there a moment that you knew Josh Dobbs was going to be okay. And it was like this crazy scramble where he ran 20 yards backwards and, you know, turn the corner and gained, I think 11 yards on third and 10. To me, it was

this week, the, the, the moment you knew, and I guess to a degree, it was the first drive. Cause he looked composed and poised in the pocket but there was a play on his second on the first touchdown drive of the game where he did break contain kept his eyes downfield and gave like a little float pass to TJ Hawkinson and I I think a lot of scrambling quarterbacks I don't even think it's fair to call him that because he's just a quarterback but I think some scrambling quarterbacks for if we're putting him in that category just look to take off there. They look to gain as much as they can and make it an easier field goal. That was third down, and he kept his eyes downfield.

He threw the ball to TJ Hawkinson on a dime, and from there, they were kind of rolling. So you can see how this guy is kind of just going to keep getting better with the more, you know, reps, the more time, you know, time on task to take from our old quarterback, Kirk Cousins. Well, just seeing them kind of marry all the skills he has. I mean, I think it's sky could be the limit. I think the the Josh Allen one is on the aggressive side. I see exactly what you're saying, though, because you're not saying that he has Josh Allen's arm.

I'm not saying he is Josh Allen, but there are elements when you watch him play the position. Well, one of the ways is on third down because on third down in, and it's hard not to compare to what we've been watching, right? With Kirk Cousins. But when you look at these point totals of the last two weeks and you try to figure out, okay, well, how would this happen? And he threw the ball extremely well today. So that's a part of it, but there's a third down at the goal line where every single person is covered. And where do you go with the football there? A lot of times, if you can't run, you throw it out of the back of the end zone and that's it. I think with, there's different types of scrambling and running quarterbacks. And what you mean with Josh Allen is

when stuff breaks down, he just goes. And there's some running quarterbacks who have to kind of like have a run play to do it. I don't look at someone like Jalen hurts as a really good scrambler in the same way. Like if he runs, he can be great, but is it like looking to make a play? Is it sort of going through the progressions first and then looking, you know, to scramble after that? It's got a different feel to it, uh, where he is staying in the pocket and doing the right thing. And then if it all breaks down, then he's going, but that play, the saints did everything right. And then he makes them wrong. And there's a guy, when you watch the little dots, you can really see it. There's a guy who's got a perfect angle on him who is a four or five runner or whatever, and cannot take Josh Dobbs down. That's where he's different to me is he has a playmaking ability to dodge tacklers, to break tackles

in the open field, but then being able to, like, like you said, like pull the ball down and then make a throw if it was there. So you're keeping your eyes up. These things are very hard to do. And the fact that he was able to do those things today, along with play in rhythm, play on time. And the most important thing to me by far with Josh Dobbs is not turning the ball over because this is a guy who was one of the league leaders and turnover worthy plays going into this game. And that was a defense that was the, I think, league leader in interceptions. And you could see why. I mean, they have really excellent defensive backs who were great on coverage and numerous plays throughout this game where he was trying to go to Addison or trying to look for another receiver. And that's part of the reason they went to Hawkinson so much. But this you know, this is this is not an easy defense to not turn the ball over against.

They have physical defensive linemen who I thought were pretty well stifled, but got some pressure at times. I mean, there's just there's a lot more going on here than just making it up as you go along. And we really saw that today. But I think that if he's going to play safer with the football like he did and there wasn't even like I brought up Heineke, but like the Heineke, Oh, it didn't get picked, but it should have. I didn't even see those. I don't even know if he had a turnover worthy play today. And if that's, that's how he's going to be from week to week, this can be really good. It's got to stay that way. But this was like the formula of get, get a couple of runs in there, execute the offense, the way it's dialed up, which we know works.

And then don't do anything that's totally bat bleep crazy that results in a turnover. Because you saw how Jameis Winston plays and what happens when you just start throwing the ball all over the place like crazy. Yeah, it was funny because I think like there was a school of thought when it was like, should we convince Tom Brady to come out of retirement? Where people were like, let's go trade for Jameis Winston. And I think we kind of saw that today. It can be fun, but it can be maddening as well because Jameis Winston had the thing on a platter. The Vikings did. We'll talk about the second half, but kind of stall out after halftime, almost trying to not lose the game. And Jameis Winston brought him back with two just prayer touchdowns that ended up working then he threw two picks and and to your point about josh dobbs like i can't think of a time where it felt like he got lucky like that there would that

should have been a turnover maybe the the one to addison right in the beginning of the game where it bounces off the guy's hands and then into his that's the first quarter i mean in high leverage situations like i i did not feel at any point even when he's tucking and he's running and he's bailing out of the pocket how many times do you see a guy just get the ball like poked out of his arms in that moment he you can see him when he's running he's like a true runner with instinct able to switch the ball into the hand closest to the sideline. That's just something you have because you've done it repetition over and over and over again. But yes, this, this offense could be primed for more because by the way, their best player has started to practice again. And Justin Jefferson will be coming back. Um, they did all of that

without their number one. And I mean, Jordan Asson is the number two receiver now, but number three receiver and KJ Osborne was out today with a concussion. He's a guy who could have had a role today and could have been a security blanket of sorts for Josh Dobbs. So you think about he's come in in the last week and a half, two weeks, learned the offense on the fly and had to run it last week without having any sort of reps in practice. And then this week he's down Justin Jefferson, who he's never thrown to in a game. And he will, I'm sure be dying to throw to as soon as he can. He's down KJ Osborne,

who I'm sure when he got traded here, it was like, this guy's going to be your security blanket. He's, he's a, he's a good veteran in this league. And he's playing with, you know,

the first play of the game, Jalen Naylor split out wide. He hasn't played in seven weeks. This game was a huge TJ Hawkinson game, and maybe we can get into that. But you can see this offense looks good now, and it's down a lot of pieces. What could it look like down the road? I think people are kind of bought into this team. I'm friends with a lot of Vikings fans and then the phone was blown up.

The group chats were blown up. People are buying into this team again. And I think they should be. They're fun and they look a little bit dangerous. So that's what's interesting is the fun part, because surviving a backup quarterback is something that can be done for teams that have talent. And also, you know, you're playing the Falcons, the saints. I had a lot more respect for the saints than the Falcons,

but you know, like, okay, good team, whatever. Like you could get by, we saw Cleveland earlier this year, when a game or two with PJ Walker, where it went crazy, but we didn't have to see it go crazy. It didn't have to be some like flag. And there was a questionable flag on the Vikings that should have made this kind of a blowout. Uh, but, um, Brian O'Neill fell down when someone hit him, which is holding. So I don't know that that one was like, I don't know. The Vikings have not been on the wrong side of the flags this year, but they were on that one. Uh, maybe Kansas city would be the other example, but, uh, for the most part part like this probably should have been even more of a blowout than it was and and we'll discuss the the second half um and how they went about that but you know this is a team that seems to be really galvanizing together around josh dobbs not just sort of

getting away with it but like they're blocking extremely well and we saw ty chandler step up today with some really big runs and, and Johnny Muntz shows up as TJ Hawkinson is banged up and he's got to make a couple of plays and they're, they're using their backup tight ends. Kenny Wong shows up and he gets a big run. Like there's so many people contributing. There was a big pass to Brandon Powell at one point for a first down. It's all over the field. And we're also seeing with TJ Hawkinson, we could talk about that now. TJ Hawkinson we could talk about that now TJ Hawkinson with one of the most spectacular gutty performances and I'm not going to snark

about everybody's tweets to me back in training camp about whatever that was going on with this contract situation but during the offseason we talked about why do you want to extend TJ Hawkinson because he's one of the better tight ends in the league and what a great tight end gives you is a security blanket where you know this guy is going to be able to make plays and he did it for them last year he did it in the playoff game he was the guy they got checked down to but nobody remembered that he caught like 10 passes that was today like he stepped up in a lot of big moments. It was not a good start to the season for him for sure. But to see him battle through what he was dealing with and then take them really, I mean, has had so much to do with how TJ Hawkinson has played these last five weeks. Absolutely. And I think that it is kind of fitting because I don't think we were doing this, but there are a lot of people hating on TJ Hawkinson. And understandably, so early on, he did have some pretty high leverage just drops.

I mean, Kirk made a good throw at the end of the Los Angeles chargers game and TJ Hawkinson kind of just batted it in the air and it was a game losing interception. Um, there was reason for criticism early on, um, but people were ready to jump off the TJ Hawkinson bandwagon completely,

which in hindsight looks very silly, but at the time was also very silly because just because he wasn't coming down with every contested catch didn't mean he wasn't still a very important part of this offense. And you're starting to see how important a piece of this offense he is. Today is a great example. I think last week's a great example too. Like when you don't necessarily know everything that's going on, you know, well, this six, five monster can catch the ball and run with it afterwards. But today's performance from TJ Hawkinson and you touched on it. The dude is dealing with a pretty significant rib injury. I don't know if it's broken ribs or bruised ribs, but his ribs are effed up right now. And you can see he has just padding on padding on padding wraps around his ribs. And every single time you take a hit like that just has to just be the most painful thing in the world.

And he was getting hit a lot in the first half because he was getting thrown to a lot in the first half there was a time where he went down and on the you know the far sideline and far far sideline from us where it looked like ah this might be the one that that keeps him out of the game he goes in the medical tent i think like on that next possession he's back on the field so he's just a warrior like a tough tough it out warrior performance from t.j hawkinson today and i think kind of one that proves a lot of people wrong, at least the ones that are ready to jump off in the early stages of the season. Folks, I hope you've enjoyed listening to us talk about prize picks this year. But if you've missed it, here's how it works.

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by nailing just a couple of picks. So go to PrizePicks.com slash purple, the code purple, daily fantasy sports made easy. Right. And that's where making that trade, which once again, I'm just going to throw it out there. The general manager is looking pretty good today, by the way, his first round pick has now become a star over the time that Justin Jefferson was away. Makai Blackman on the field quite a bit. There's a third round draft pick.

And TJ Hawkinson starring. That's a second round draft pick they spent for him and then extended him, which I think has been a really good decision overall. As you mentioned, reasonable criticism early in the season. But losing Jefferson forced everyone to improve and forced everyone to step up and then prove that they could. And then this might be the best pick swap that's ever happened. I'm sure like the comment section knows some other pick swap that worked out this way. But two wins from a quarterback to now put them within shouting distance of Detroit for the division

with two games against Detroit coming down the road, an opportunity to be in the playoffs. If they can continue like this against Denver, against Las Vegas, they've got other games coming up against teams that could still beat them. And at some point there probably will be a bad one as there always is. Even with keenum in 2017 his game in carolina hit the skids it will happen at some point but to make a trade in the middle of the season for somebody with the mental capacity of this gentleman who could come in and start like this and re-energize this team almost with rocket fuel you might say there it is is and and not only that but they've shown depth in so many areas

that we didn't think they had even on the defensive side today Jordan Hicks was not in there they had to find ways uh what they've done making you know dynamic players to be able to shape shift when things go wrong or when the other team has their quarterback go out or something the way that they're able to do that and the number of players they've been able to use this year, this has been a complete roster effort to turn around from 0-3. And when you talk about evaluating the coach and evaluating the general manager, I mean, you couldn't be much higher on them right now, unless Louis Seam got off the bench, picked off a pass and ran it for a touchdown, then I guess you could. But aside from that, I mean, they have put themselves in a position to make this very, very interesting. Before we get to the big picture, which we usually do at the end,

let's talk about the defensive side. I never saw it coming, all of Jameis Winston and all the things that happened, just throwing across his body, throwing jump balls to everybody. His check down is a Hail Mary. It's third and third and three is just like, I don't know, just throw it all the way down the field. But on the defensive side, the early part of the game was really something from this defense. Camaro was a non-factor. Derek Carr looked pretty confused. They made some big stops. This defense has gone from, I don't know, it was Tyson Bajans. I don't know. It was Jordan Love too. No, actually this is legit. I think this defense is very good. Yeah, I think it's good. And I think that's a good point you bring up in the first half because

Dobbs gets all the credit. Offense gets all the credit. KOC gets all the credit. Hawkinson gets all the credit. And they absolutely should because they turned the game on its head. It was 24 to three going into halftime. But you know how you stack those scoring drives on top of each other? You force three and outs, which is what the defense did on back-to-back possessions. After Dobbs goes superhuman and turns the corner and runs in that seven-yard touchdown, the defense forces a three and out. So they get the ball back right after the two-minute warning, right before halftime, and then they score again and pretty much put the game out of reach.

But yeah, the defense has playmakers that I didn't know they had. They have stars that I didn't know. I knew Jindy Hunter was a star, but they have guys filling in around him that I didn't know could pick up the slack. Kevin O'Connell was extremely complimentary of DJ Wanham this afternoon. And he should be. DJ Wanham, who I think I was pretty critical of him in the early stages because I was like, well, if they lose Marcus Davenport, then they have to play DJ Wanham.

And I'm wrong. Like, DJ Wanham is making plays. There was a drive. We talk about the first half and how they were able to kind of force three and outs and get the offense, the ball back. DJ Wanham did it by himself. He sacked Derek Carr. Then two plays later, he tripped him up from behind and Derek Carr fell one yard short of the sticks Saints punt. So there are so many different players filling in.

And I think we've talked about this in the past, like a lot of that ability to, okay, now this guy has to step up and then they do step to okay now this guy has to step up and then they do step up now this guy has to step up and then they do step up like that comes from brian flores but the fact that brian flores is here comes from kevin o'connell and comes from quesito pimenta they got the right guy this offseason they hit on the draft pick and maybe the most important thing they did this offseason was they hit on the draft pick, and maybe the most important thing they did this offseason was they hit on the defensive coordinator. And they instantly corrected their big mistake from last year, which was hiring a Donatello, playing really soft and safe,

to hiring a guy who each week now is becoming more and more of a head coaching candidate down the road because of what this defense has proven to be be when I don't think any of us really saw it coming. What's so interesting to me about Brian Flores is that in his background, he started in the scouting realm. So he was a player, but not an NFL player at Boston College. And then he got into the New England Patriots as a scout and a player evaluator. And what we tend to see here is him evaluating his own players exceptionally well. Think about this. We just accept now that Josh Metellus is a good player. Like, oh yeah, he's just a guy on the defense. The dude played like 200 snaps before this, right? He was never on the field under Ed Donatello. And when you look at, you know,

somebody like DJ Wanham, him with his hand in the dirt was not a guy who was beating offensive tackles off the edge now as an outside linebacker stand-up player suddenly there's more confidence there and it seems like what florist is able to do is identify everything that his players can do well and then on a week-to-week game plan basis put them in positions and sometimes that means like kairos tango is inactive and then sometimes he's playing a lot and sometimes we didn't see mckay blackman and the and then now he's playing a lot and the way we used to look at that was like oh they don't like him because that was true if somebody wasn't getting a snaps in a week mike zimmer was taking away their snaps

because he didn't like how they were playing now it it might mean not that he doesn't like them, that he feels like that given week, it fits better with their game plan. And we've just see that work for so many people. Cam Bynum, who did not get the interception that he gave to his wife, who they got here. It was fun for him.

If you haven't followed the story, Google it. I'm not going to go into it, but Cam Bynum is a great example. He's grading by PFF is one of the best safeties in football, and he's making plays each week. Last week, we couldn't find him because he was in the parking lot. Ed Donatell had him playing at the goal line, just so far away from the line of scrimmage. Now you see him making a lot more plays. Harrison Smith is involved a lot more. DJ Wanham, I think, has been very good too.

And understanding the defense, sometimes pass rushes are to create lanes for other people. And we just evaluated by kind of who got there. Ivan Pace Jr. has been back in the game the last couple of weeks. There's just this plethora of players who are the best versions of themselves that were just a group of dudes before. Like you don't recognize a lot of these names on this defense. And yet now as they go to play Denver, as they go to play Vegas, I mean, there shouldn't be any reason to see this slow down. And that's the thing about this defense that we talked about with Dobbs sustainability, but everything I'm seeing here, I don't see a reason why it can't continue.

I don't think they're going to rank number one in the NFL, but I don't see why this would suddenly fall off when you get so much out of so many different people. Yeah. And I think some people are going to probably latch onto the fact that like it was Tyson Bajan. It was Jordan Love. And if you want to do that, that's fine's fine it's fair but the consistency over the last month is not a coincidence and i don't think you just flukily have a month of great defensive play so yeah is it going to look different when you have to go to cincinnati and play joe burrow in the cold like yeah it probably will look a little different but there is something to be said about if that's the way you want to take it.

Like, well, they're just beating up on on quote unquote bad teams. Well, they are. They are. They are doing it. And that is something that I don't think last year's defense could have said. I don't think it's something that I would have thought this year's defense could have said a month and a half ago um so yeah maybe if that's kind of the glass half glass glass half full take or half empty take like at least they're doing it but they're doing it over and over and over again which i think is commendable and also really really something that you can look at and really latch on to that okay this is a good defense and it absolutely is there's players that make plays and i think when the vik Vikings have needed the defense to step up over the last month, over this five-game winning streak,

it always kind of has. It hasn't always looked pretty, but it always has happened where the defense has made a play. They made two at the end of the game with a very big assist to Jameis Winston on both of them because he threw the ball into the sky. But that's another point about being a good defense. You have to come down with that.

Makai Blackman did come down with it. Byron Murphy came down with it. And these are things that are not flukes when they continue to happen over and over and over again. So, yeah, shout out to Brian Flores. He's doing a great job. We knew he was a highly respected coach coming in, but I didn't think he was quite capable of getting this entire buy-in the way he has as fast as he has there's a point about when you play a team that's

not good on offense like not great this team was average coming in the saints average like 15th best kind of across the board just mediocre and they made them look terrible in the first half and the only way that they scored was the wildest throws by james winston port free chris alavi i mean this guy's an absolute beast and hey like at perry that's a guy we talked about in draft time but like the way he was doing what he did was just kind of nutty plays that they came down with that hey look you know byron murphy either needs to get taller or make a play on the ball or whatever. But, uh, those were wild heaves with hopes and prayers that they came down with that they stopped coming down with eventually. But overall, this was a very good game for the Vikings defense. So if you're making bad offenses look worse or just as bad, we should be giving credit.

Does that mean that when they play Cincinnati or Detroit, that they're going to hold them and make them look like this, that we're going to have to see, we can't just superimpose Detroit here or, or Cincinnati. So we're going to have to see how that looks as we go forward, but they seem to be growing. I think that's the point when every week we're kind of highlighting a, like,

Hey, have you noticed that DJ want them suddenly playing really good? Or have you noticed that this player, that player had their best game? I just think it speaks to how much better they are. And last year, Mike white came in here and went crazy. And so like it's not every team on defense that is making bad teams look bad. Let's talk about the second half though, because I think that there are different ways to interpret it. Uh, I clearly, and Kevin O'Connell admitted this after the game, he got super conservative

because he just did not believe that the new Orleans saints could score. He turned out to be mostly right. They did score a little, but nowhere near enough, you know, they, with all the Hail Marys and such, uh, to win the game, They had probably a 97% chance to win the game, even when they were up eight late. I mean, they would have had to go the whole way. They would have to score two at the same time. I think you can say fourth and three 55 yard field goal.

That might be worse for you. It's actually probably better to fail on fourth down there than risk that kick with a kicker. That's been very spotty this year, like up and down. I didn't love that decision. Uh, I thought it was a little bit on the emotional challenge side, maybe not O'Connell's fault. Cause we didn't see the replay where Addison, you know, let, let the ball go. Uh, also Camara's butt was down. So he loses the challenges. I look at it. Like when you get up in the NFL against a decent team by a couple of scores, you can expect them to make a push. They are not just

going to be like, Oh, we're dead. Uh, that they were going to make some plays cause they have some players, but I don't look at that as telling of anything else because that's just how football works. I mean, it's how all sports work. A basketball team gets up 30. Oh, they cut it to 10. Oh, that didn't happen. I look at it much more as, hey, maybe next time he'll trust Dobbs a little more, put a little more juice into it, try to close out the game, be a little more aggressive. The trust is going to build between those two over weeks. So I don't have a huge issue with how anything went down and how they handled it in the second half, but it was very clear that they took the foot off the gas pedal and said, we're just going to kind of try to hunker down, run out the clock as much as we

can. And if you're doing that against a better team than this, you know, maybe with a starting quarterback in the game in the second half it could have potentially been problematic but i don't think it's something that i want to go over the top criticize no it's not like sound the alarms and there's no reason to sound the alarms with kevin o'connell the way he's handled the last month and a half um but if we want to nitpick like yeah i agree like you don't need to kick that 55 yard field goal but i also do kind of agree with the idea of let's not get silly here um i'm all for aggressiveness and i think it's probably like the madden generation like if i was up by 35 i wanted to be up by 70 like and i i don't mind that um but

if you were walking out of you know the locker room at halftime or if we were in the press box at halftime and you said, do I think this 21 point lead for the Vikings is going to increase and become like a 35 point lead? Or do I think the game is going to get close? This is to your point about just sports in general. I think I thought I would have thought it was going to get a little closer. And it did. And it did with some fluky plays some crazy touchdown one crazy touchdown catch by a lave one crazy throw a touchdown catch by at perry um but i think kevin o'connell was kind of proven right that like if i just give my defense you know long fields to defend and i don't do anything stupid with my play calling. And I just try and get us out of here with a win.

And I'm not trying to like flex and show that I'm this mastermind of offense. We're going to win the game. And they did. I know it feels like, man, they almost let that one get away because it was closer than it really should have been. But I think that's also part of like, just the fatalism of Minnesota sports. It's like, oh man, they just scored two touchdowns. Here we go. We're going to lose the game. The game didn't necessarily really feel like it was ever going to get away from them

completely. It was just a little closer than I think, you know, people would have liked for comfort, but I can't fault Kevin O'Connell too much for being a little conservative with the guy who's known the offense for a week and a half and had just an incredibly emotional first half performance that was probably going to come down from that emotional high at some point. So you want to kind of find that cruising altitude in between. And I think that's kind of what Kevin O'Connell was working at. Also want to make note if that Ty Chandler run just busts open and it did and it was a touchdown and they don't throw that bogus holding flag on Brian O'Neal, then it's a blowout. And we're not talking really about his conservative play calling.

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And it's not like the second half was a wreck. No. It's not like they were making mistakes all over the place. Addison had a drop, but it wasn't like all of a sudden Josh Dobbs turned into a pumpkin and then like, didn't know what to do and whatever. We we've seen that before with quarterbacks who have a good half.

And then the second half they come out and it's completely different. But I thought that he kept his head about him, which was important. It was do not turn the football over because that's the only thing that can allow them to come back. I mean, think about even the comeback game that the Vikings had against the Colts, where it was a couple of fumbles that played into it. Maybe it was just one fumble. Thank you for pointing out, by the way, that technically O'Connell won the challenge

and did not get the fumble he was looking for. But I think on like pro football reference, that will read as a win for the challenge for Kevin O'Connell won the challenge and did not get the fumble he was looking for. But I think on like pro football reference that will read as a win for the challenge for Kevin O'Connell. So that is, that is important. But for a guy in Josh Dobbs, where the thing we're always going to be worried about is turnovers, because that's been his very brief history. Hasn't started that much in the league, but that's what he's done. He's been among the league leaders and fumbles and interceptions.

So you are probably going to pull in the reins a little bit. Would I have liked them to go for fourth down? Yes, but it's not. See, that's one where when sometimes people will pull up the analytics and it'll be like 1% higher for something. And they'll say like, Oh, should have gone for it. And it's like, okay, well, if it's, if it's 98%, you kick the field goal and 99% you go for it. I don't know. Right. I, I understand the decision based on what you're looking at and the fact that you really don't want to turn the ball over. Um, now we have to talk about the running game a little bit here because Alexander Madison suffered a concussion. Ty Chandler was flat out better at football than Madison. And I hope he's okay.

He's one of the great guys that we ever get a chance to cover. And I see why everyone has so much respect for him. So put that aside. But clearly, Ty Chandler is a better football player. I mean, it just, it's not even close. The jolt in his game, the burst in his game is so much more. I mean, it jumps off the page kind of in the same way when you watch Christian McCaffrey, when he's here, as soon as the ball

is in his hands, it is going. And what we saw today was, and this is a great defense on the defensive front that the line is blocking people. You just need someone fast to go through. The plays are not designed for someone who runs a four, eight they're designed for someone who runs four, four. And that's what Ty Chandler does. And yeah, if he runs that in for a touchdown, his numbers probably look great. And it was such a, not a good holding call. It didn't even impact the play. Chandler's had like three plays called back by penalties this year where they've been

dynamic. Yes. There was a couple where I thought, I'm not sure Ty Chandler ran the right way on that one. And that's going to be a problem. But he is, to me, RB won the rest of the way. And if Madison returns and is healthy, that it should be Chandler getting the ball more.

And can a Wong will come in and get the ball as well, which is a guy that they probably should have been using over the last two years. And they also should maybe look outside and see if there's any free agents on the street that can possibly come in here. But I know there's going to be moments where we go, ooh, what was Ty Chandler doing on that play? But it's just time to have that be part of the game.

And that was big for me to actually have a running game where you're like, oh, it's not terrible today. So Dobbs doesn't have to do absolutely everything. Yeah. I do hope Alexander Madison is okay. And it's very unfortunate. He got hurt for his sake, but also like for the sake that the conversation is going to be like very much comparing him to Ty Chandler. If he just got through the game healthy, then we could really talk about this without feeling a little weird talking about it, but we have to, because every time Ty Chandler was on the field, it felt like when he had the ball in his hands, something positive could happen.

And whenever Alexander Madison was on the field, it kind of felt like, Oh, well, there is a very, very defined ceiling on how well this run play can go. I think even the pitch play that to Ty, to Ty Chandler that ended up going

like 50 something yards for the touchdown and getting called back. Like, I don't even know if they call that play to Alexander Madison because he doesn't have that burst on the edge. I don't think that goes for a touchdown, even if it's blocked the same exact way with, with Alexander Madison. So there is something there that I just think that you need to really consider just inverting those carries completely. We'll see how Alexander Madison kind of responds to he's in concussion protocol. He was ruled out with a concussion. Oftentimes when the guy gets a concussion on a Sunday, they do not play the following Sunday. So maybe it will just be a Ty Chandler game in Denver by nature of injuries and

availability. And maybe the Vikings will get to see what they have in Ty Chandler without having to worry about, like, how do we mix in our guy who's been our RB1 all year? Hope he's okay, but we can't even argue it anymore. Like, there's just no way that you can watch football and watch one guy do one thing and one guy do another thing and not just think Ty Chandler brings a little bit more juice, a little bit more energy, a little bit more production

to that position, which has been sorely lacking this year. There's a reason people were calling for Cam Akers before he suffered his really sad Achilles tear for the second time in his career. And there's a reason people are going to be calling for Ty Chandler, largely because of what he did today, but largely also because of what Alexander Madison has shown. He cannot really do. He's a backup running back in the league that can offer a nice change of pace, a thunder and lightning, if you will.

But you want that lightning as, as your main guy, you just do. And there were so many plays where Madison would come in the game today and they ran the same play and it went nowhere. And you're like, I don't know. I think that gets like five more yards with, with Chandler and without Chandler doing what he did today, it was hard to get a test case. And you know, acres had his moments, but acres is not as fast as Chandler. I mean, I mean, it's like Chandler's got as much burst as anyone I can remember back there. OK, he's not Adrian Peterson, but I just mean pure like ball gets in his hands and it just goes like there's velocity there. Propulsion.

Maybe we could talk about like like there's rockets in his shoes. But no, I mean, honestly, like he has really remarkable quickness that explodes out of the backfield. Uh, you know, Dwayne McBride, yes, will probably be moved up from the practice squad because he's been on the team, but that is not somebody who's ready to play in the NFL from what we saw in training camp and preseason. So if it's going to be a longer term injury for Madison, they probably will have to see if there's someone else that could potentially come in and play. But you don't want to get that far down the depth chart for sure. It's going to have to be Wong Wu and Chandler.

And I am very interested to see more test case on how those two perform, because I think it's an offense that just needs a faster guy to get to the edge on those pitches and those outside runs. So, you know, I think Chandler and his numbers would have been better if it wasn't for that run that got pulled back. But we all saw it and we all saw how that looked. Let's talk about the big picture element of this, because what is going to be talked about and the big picture is two things. Number one is that Kirk Cousins better start looking for houses in a different place because the way that Josh Dobbs has come in and played is talk about a test case has been able to show what a mobile quarterback can do, what, how a different quarterback can react to these

receivers and this game plan. And it wasn't just a random thing. This was a game planned week versus another team that he stepped in and operated really effectively. I don't want to go personally that far down the road to say like Dobbs QB won forever and, you know, Sayonara Kirk. But I think we are going down that road farther than I was ready to go last week because we just saw it again against the good defense. And the other one is the more near future, which is this team should be feared. They beat the San Francisco 49ers at home, and then they've come in and put up 31 and was it 28 today 29 28 how many points doesn't matter they put 27 27 i was like wait that doesn't sound right 27 uh they made if they had made the field goal 30 30 but uh right so

they've had these great offensive performances in back-to-back weeks and if they continue to thrive like this and then look, some people have different opinions on the draft class. I watched Jalen Daniels and I thought there's a, there's a Dobbs type of player. Who's pretty quick. Uh, I just, I feel like the longer they go, the more success they have, the likelihood of cousins returning continues to go down and down and down. And if they win a couple more games here, that will be not even a discussion in the future.

So having a mobile quarterback come in here and perform like this and bond with this offense and these players, as well as Dobbs did in the line, I thought was great today, the offensive line. And I mean, that, that seems to me like that would show them, you should have confidence in what you can do for a quarterback, even if he's not perfect. And even if he shows here up here in the middle of the week. So anyway, that's, that's two things like the contender part of it is also another is another major element. They've got a schedule that's manageable and it's an NFC that still feels very open

outside. You know, Philadelphia is really good, but still feels really open. I, are we going too far on either one of those things to say contender and future is Dobbs slash draft pick, but it's not Kirk. Yeah. I don't know, like contender to be feared in the NFC, like, if you play them and you have, like, Super Bowl aspirations, them being the Vikings, and you're worried about playing them, yeah, then they're a contender. I don't know if, like, we're considering them Super Bowl contenders out of the NFC, but the NFC also kind of stinks. So, like, the playoffs are weird.

Normally the cream rises to the top, but the Vikings are showing kind of something to be feared with what could this offense look like with a mobile quarterback, with what it's looked like the last two weeks, with more time, with Justin Jefferson back in the mix, with K.J. Osborne coming back with their full complement. That's a good offense, and we've already talked about the defense is overachieving and maybe not even overachieving, just maybe good.

So you combine those two things. Like, yeah, they are probably contenders in the NFC or at least someone you don't want to be playing in the playoffs. To the point about Kirk Cousins, this also kind of stinks because the guy is recovering from an Achilles tear and he's at home and he's probably kind of sad because he's not playing football on Sundays and he should be like that. He loves the game and it's understandable if he's sad that he can't be playing the game that he loves right now.

But last week, frankly to me proved everything you needed to prove that a man off the street who did not know teammates names in full was able to come in and win a football game on the road that proved to me that you have the infrastructure in place whether it be the offensive talent the defensive talent but most importantly the head coach and everything that surrounds kevin o'connell you have the infrastructure in place to succeed whether it's kirk cousins back there whether it's josh dobbs back there whether it's one of the guys you draft in the first round up back there i i think last week to me proved that but i think this week only further confirms that and i think

if you were anyone in the vikings front office you can't watch that game and if you just take emotion out of it and take what kirk cousins has meant to the franchise out of it and think, well, like why not try to find the next one? Because we have a good infrastructure in place. Maybe it's Josh Dobbs. Maybe he stays hot. Maybe they win a playoff game or two and it is Josh Dobbs. But the point is not, is it Josh Dobbs or is it Kirk Cousins? It's, are you ready or are you able, are you a capable team that you can move on from Kirk Cousins and feel like you're going to be okay? It doesn't have to mean that it's Josh Dobbs replacing, you know, sign Josh Dobbs, make him QB one moving forward. But this last two weeks are proof that you're a damn good football team and Kirk's a good quarterback,

but you have the pieces in place to make a lot of quarterbacks good. And if you have more money because you're not paying a quarterback, a million zillion dollars, like you are Kirk cousins, you can improve the talent around them even more. But yeah, I mean, you can't look at these last two weeks and probably the weeks to come are frankly irrelevant to me. Josh Dobbs could turn into a pumpkin and be terrible for the next 10 weeks or however long it wouldn't be 10 weeks unless they were like, we're winning the Superbowl. But these two weeks are proof that you can move on from Kirk Cousins and I think you can be okay.

The details late in this podcast have been a little off from the score to how many weeks are left, but the, the takes, the takes are what you should focus on. But okay. Speaking of takes, I got a couple just to finish this off with a number one, my favorite moment from today, when Josh Dobbs ran into the end zone, Kevin O'Connell turned around and looked at the crowd and just went like, I don't know, folks. And I mean, look, we've had that with Justin Jefferson before. There's been a lot of fun moments with this team over the last two years.

But I thought that that sort of encapsulated the general feeling of everybody. And what I've noticed, and this goes to even how many people are watching us right now is there is a new energy and excitement from the fans watching this happen. And I think of course, part of it is how amazing Josh Dobbs is a human being. I mean, what, like, this doesn't even make any sense. Like he doesn't make any sense, but then to come here and do this, even if he is a rocket scientist, to pull it off and to play with such confidence and self-assurance as he does and to learn as much as he has and also galvanize the group where he looks like he's totally in command of guys who know the offense way better. And he, I think, has most of their names down. When we asked about Hockinson, it was just like the hairy one. That's who he is uh but you know there's

just been this energy that has come from him arriving here and doing what he's done over the last two weeks which again not to throw dirt on the grave of cousins who was playing great but it was just shaping up to be such a similar season to what we had seen in the past where you're down to oh and three then you come back and everyone's talking about well maybe you might be good and then you know whatever maybe there's disappointment around the corner maybe not i feel this team is much better than they were last year at this same moment because they had jefferson last year they didn't have to overcome not having him and the defense was so much worse And now I feel like when things break down, there's going to be an answer potentially from Josh Dobbs. And so not knowing where this is going, feeling like the, the, the universe is vast

and should be explored by rocket scientists. But to have that, to have that feeling though, it has been a very long time i mean it has literally been since case keenum was here yeah and since i was standing probably in this same abandoned press box after the game talking about a crazy case keenum win and saying like i don't know where this is going folks same feeling as today yeah and that can't be overstated that like the wonderment of like what lies ahead is kind of sky's the limit right now because we don't know. We haven't seen this movie. Like I do think there's a chance that Kirk,

if he would have stayed healthy the whole year, they win enough games that people are saying, no, Kirk, maybe dark horse MVP contender because they've turned it around and he was playing at such a high level and and they get to the playoffs and this team is better so maybe they win a game and but I don't think you're any closer to a Super Bowl at that point and so to watch what's happening now and at least say like well this is different we haven't seen this this is exciting but also like they don't feel much And so to watch what's happening now and at least say like, well,

this is different. We haven't seen this. This is exciting, but also like, they don't feel much worse. Like I think is pretty significant. Like this is an interesting team, but it's also a good one. It's not just show up on Sunday and what wacky thing is going to happen because they're a weird football team. Like that's true, but it's also show up on Sunday and watch a team that has every right to consider themselves a contender in the NFC. So exciting to cover in real time,

exciting to kind of project out and see what this team could maybe look like down the road. But I think right now everyone's latching on largely just because of Josh Dobbs. And why not? Because like you said, he is as good of a person as we've come across in this job. He's interesting as hell.

He treats everyone super nice. You can read any of the deep dives that anyone has done about Josh Dobbs this week. And everyone from his past says the same thing. This guy's salt of the earth. So this isn't fake. This is a guy you can feel good rallying behind um and he has the vikings playing really good football right now so and i think one of the

things that is just standing out is how much the team likes each other i mean there's just there's an energy about the team that is not always something you see and now i mean once you've got it a couple years in a row where times they've been down, they've had to bond together the leadership of the locker room, which of course is enhanced greatly by the head coach who at Owen three, look, I mean, look, they were all in three and the head coach was almost to the point we were making fun of him. So adamant that we could come back from this. We're never going to view ourselves that way we could do something special here and a lot of times you just go like all right well you know coach speak or whatever but we see the results of that and that's with everything with o'connell

where it's like culture okay well you know but then you see the results of that and here we are very much with the vikings with an opportunity to prove to themselves in the coming weeks and to everybody else that they should be considered dangerous in the nfc that is something that when kirk heard his achilles i don't think we saw coming unless philip rivers was going to show up here with all of his children so we will see where this rocket ship takes us matthew collar dane mizzutani from the Pioneer Press. Thank you so much to all of you who watched today. We will have a rocket ships full of coverage.

Okay, too far. Too much. Yeah, too bad. That was one too many, as is my tendency, actually, is to go one joke too many. But we will have all sorts of coverage here. Also, go to purpleinsider.com to will have all sorts of coverage here. Also, uh, the, uh, go to purple insider.com. Check out my written work as well. The pioneer press is where Dane will be covering it. We will both be out at TCO performance center all week and flying to Denver as well. So, you

know, you're going to want to make sure you follow along with this story because it's, it's who knows, right? Who knows where it's going. So thanks everybody so much for watching slash listening, and we will see you very soon.