Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Judd Zulgad loved JJ McCarthy's progress before injury

Episode Date: August 14, 2024

Matthew Coller and Judd Zulgad talk about what JJ McCarthy's torn meniscus means for his development and for Sam Darold, plus what's Judd's hottest take of the year so far? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar here, and you have asked for it. Everyone has been calling for an episode, a crossover with Judd Zolgad. And what a time, Judd, to be back with you on the show just hours after Kevin O'Connell announced to us that JJ McCarthy is going to be out for some period of time with surgery on a torn meniscus. You know, we had planned this anyway, and it's almost like the football gods just said, you know what, if you guys are getting back together, there might as well be a surgery for a key player involved. How are you feeling, Judd? This is quite a gut punch for Vikings fans here. Yeah, it's a bigger gut punch, I think, for fans and for us, because clearly those of us, like the two of us who do content, J.J. McCarthy's name had turned into like just bang, click, click, click. But anyway, it's a gut punch. It's not the end of the world that it feels like, because we've sort of been here before. And I mean, you go back to

Teddy being hurt, which was absolutely catastrophic. This is not that. Nonetheless, I really was, I'm guessing that you're on the same page as me. I was really enjoying watching this kid progress in practices. Saturday was fun, but I felt that was sort of the culmination for the hours that guys like us stand in the sun and sweat and watch football practice, which a lot of times is not enjoyable, but I've sort of enjoyed this because McCarthy, you can see him, you know, going back to the off season camps, like this guy's making progress. And Saturday was like, okay, there's all the progress. And now we're Sam Darnold and Nick Mullins.

And so four practices left to watch the joint practices are in Cleveland, but I guess I'm mostly disappointed for myself in some ways. Because I was really enjoying watching him. It was fun. I think everybody had the same feeling. You could sense it in Kevin O'Connell's voice and his even body language when he was talking about the potential for something being there. And then when he gave his Zoom press conference

to announce the surgery that, I mean, Kevin O'Connell had to be over the moon watching the development of J.J. McCarthy. And I agree with you. It wasn't that long ago that I read Bruce Arian's book and it's all about quarterback development. And each one of the stories is about Carson Palmer, Ben Roethlisberger, Peyton Manning,

the different quarterbacks that he worked with. And it's the whole progress of seeing them, even Andrew Luck, from the first time you get hands on him as an NFL coach and you see them take those steps. And there's some great stories in there about Peyton Manning asking for the film right away and already knowing a lot about the scheme when he arrived and what we saw from jj mccarthy was you only get one shot at the guy's first training camp and seeing him go from he couldn't even really throw in warm-ups consistently accurately as he was trying to get the footwork down to this guy looks like he's almost ready to play like that type of progress was so fun to watch on a daily basis out there

and then when he would have the bad days and how he would come back from those bad days and to have that just sort of immediately stopped it doesn't ruin his career i don't even think that it massively changes the outlook for this season and what they were going to do with him anyway because he wasn't starting week one and it's altogether possible that darnold could have just kept going as the starter into the season it's more of just disappointing for everybody that we don't get to see that through to another preseason game maybe two more preseason games to more practices and for him to take those final steps like there's a play in the game where he hitches like five times like that and then just

he's gonna work that out the next time right i'm sure they went over it and right correct it and then oh this next preseason game he didn't do that this time or he didn't make that interception throw to see him correct things like that's all it's just all been a lot of fun and so i think disappointment is really the right word here yeah because he so i'm with you like i i think there's a conversation to be had here about like how does this really affect his season and trajectory and i think you're you're right like he's gotten it's been an interesting case study to watch uh o'connell split the reps now donald's gotten more for because he's gotten first team and more reps, but it's not like a one-two traditional, the one just gets all the reps. Once the season

starts, and I did think with McCarthy healthy, that Darnold was going to start against the Giants week one. Now, did it feel like there could be a competition? At least McCarthy's saying, hell no, I'm going to take a shot at starting yes did I think he was going to win the job week one probably not and once the season starts you know those practices change greatly and Sam Darnold if if he was a starter McCarthy healthy or not was going to get the vast majority of reps so there's like a whole conversation about what does this really do because McCarthy is going to, whether he's lost long-term or short-term, rehab with the Vikings.

He's going to meet with the coaches. Like a lot of the mental stuff he was going to get, he's still going to get. But I did like the fact that it really felt like the last week and a half or so, especially the game against the Raiders on Saturday, it was fun because it appeared that McCarthy, who I think is competitive as hell, had no interest in seeding the job. Like, I think he's not going to bitch about it, right? But didn't you get the feeling like, oh no, no, I'm going to compete for this. And Matthew, it's just so many things. And this is not Kirk bashing, okay? But for the last six years, we had fallen

into the pattern. Clear, number one starter, never bring in competition. Training camp goes a certain way. Starters don't play in the preseason. It was really sort of, in my opinion, Groundhog Day. And this was the first time in a long time that guys like us, who are cynical by nature, were sort of tickled to see these practices. And we're like, oh, to see these practices and we're like oh okay this is really cool yeah i kind of compared it to when that first spring day hits like 65 degrees and

you open the windows you walk outside and you're like breathe it in breathe it in and there was a lot of that i think for the entire state of minnesota because this goes beyond just you and i at practice if he had gotten hurt and not played the preseason game i think there would have been some feeling from the fans of like oh well okay i guess it's a setback but once you've seen him do it in a game and just shred the heck out of the raiders and the touchdown pass uh where he hits the back foot lets it go in time down the left side but if even if i said his oh yeah remember his best pass we'd have to talk about three or four different ones it was really that impressive the playmaking

again not kirk bashing but sure was nice to see a pocket collapse and a guy run away as opposed to turtling and getting sacked or just completely panicking and fumbling or something. And all the potential that we were told about has been there. And I think much more than that, because when he was painted as the next Matt Hasselbeck or maybe a smaller Brad Johnson, when he was coming out, I don't think that's right. I think there's a lot more physical talent that JJ McCarthy has shown and to have it kind of taken away, you don't get another preseason game. And I also think that everybody knew that the next preseason game might be the last time you saw him for a while, uh, with, uh, Sam Darnold starting. So this whole week was going to be

exciting. That's the disappointing part, but the bigger picture here is the timeline, which I don't think really changes. Cause I agree with you that he was making his case and he was letting everybody know, Hey, like, you know, I I'm coming whenever, whenever what I wrote after the game was that he has just made Kevin O'Connell's life so much easier because anytime he wanted to push the QB of the future button, he could bash it. He could do it in week two. He could do it in week eight. He could do it in week one, 2025. And he would feel good about it no matter what. Now the injury makes this like, is he going to be ready if he comes back from the short surgery? Can you play him at all at the end of the season? If he comes back

from the longer term surgery, it complicates it a lot lot more it also makes it so it's hell or high water with sam darnold at least for the first half of the season as opposed to the panic button the eject button that you can hit and bring in the other guy so it really changes the dynamic for the head coach here absolutely does but but here's the question does it change it in a bad way or a good way because depending on like how things go if a team is you know and and i think they have too much talent on offense to be terrible uh because they've still you know they've improved their run game for sure um they've got two of the best wide receivers. Their offensive line for all people complain is actually fairly solid now, but anyway, so does it change it in a good way or bad way?

Because, you know, the one thing was, okay, let's say they get off to an 0-4 start and it's like, can JJ save the day? Which I think is a terrible place to put a kid potentially. So this now doesn't allow for that um i would say this i don't think the vikings if this in any way impacts mccarthy's trajectory for 2025 that's a bad thing i don't think it will i think he's the expected starter i think he would have been the expected starter if he had gotten into 10 games in 2024 or zero games so and and i do think o'connell and we have both covered a lot of coaches some who had no idea what they were doing in this league it feels like o'connell and

his staff matthew have a good handle on things so like i'm yet to see that oh he screwed that up right so i don't think this is going to impact a thing. The only thing that you hope is this is not some type of setup for, okay, now there's knee problems, right? Like now there's this. Here's what we didn't know. But I mean, McCarthy too, back to your point, like Brad Johnson, I covered him and he's very functional, smart QB. But whoever sold this McCarthy's arm is not great.

I don't know what they were smoking, but this kid's arm is legit. That touchdown pass to Tristan Jackson on Saturday was a thing of beauty right in the bucket. That was as done as any quarterback I've covered now in the past seven years, Matthew, not maybe going back to 2009. That might be a little bit different. No, no in the past seven years, Matthew. Not maybe going back to 2009.

That might be a little bit different. No, no, the past seven years. That allows for the past six years of one guy in particular, who, by the way, had a fine arm, but that was a great pass. You know what? I think the difference is, I remember last year when Jordan Love threw a touchdown about the same distance against the Vikings, and he was kind of backing up a little bit, and he just torqued his body and threw it like same distance against the Vikings. And he was kind of backing

up a little bit and he just torqued his body and threw it like 45 yards in the air. It wasn't an off balance throw for McCarthy, but the ease in which that ball traveled at a high velocity, it was not a whole wind up and put every ounce into it and get it up. It was there and it was there fast. As soon as he flashed open, that ball was in his hands. And there were a couple other ones that were thrown with anticipation and velocity too, where he didn't have to have a perfect pocket or a perfect setup. And there's so much value to that. And even his dumbest throw, which was the sidearm thing that just whizzed by Trent Shurfield as he fell over, it was still a little like, yeah, he's got the arm to do that.

If he wants to drop down. I mean, so now he's kind of looking to me more that we know that he has this physical talent and he's shorter than Justin Herbert, but there's sort of that there where it's not a runner who is going to run for a thousand yards, but if he's on the move, he can really throw it, or he could take off and run. And then if you need him to fit it into tight windows or get, get it downfield quickly, he can do it without a perfect pocket, a perfect setup. And these are things that are, I think, hard to project in college because these guys at this age,

and this is why you draft them when they're 20 or 21, they can get better so much faster. And I think he always had arm strength, but I think his technique has come along so quickly that, okay, it's a deep throw. And now I step and snap and there it goes. And those deep balls, when we saw him throwing deep balls and OTAs and rookie camp, they look terrible. And then he gets them in the game and he's, he's already made these big jumps. That's what's hard about the draft and why we get it wrong so many times, because we don't know how a guy is going to go from say, playing safety at Georgia to safety in the NFL or quarterback at Michigan. And now we see a completely different looking quarterback. I love this one because I feel like we as media today and fans, I feel like we say, we put all of these like executives and say, these are the smartest guys

and they can screw up the draft. Anyone can. And I say malarkey. I say a lot of them aren't that smart, but I think O'Connell is right. Like, like think about what you just said which is spot on in otas and minicamp we talked and both said this kid's arm is legit like i i went in expecting a noodle arm half expecting it to be you know wobbling through the air and if you remember we talked about it and we're like the arm is legit the passes weren't great they fixed it because they're they're smart enough to fix it like that's the thing is we all say well if you're're an NFL coach or you're a GM, you must be brilliant in football. That's BS. A lot of these guys don't know what they're looking at.

They just see these, they see the same attributes that you or I could see, right? But when you get the real smart ones, and O'Connell, I think, is quarterback-wise, I have no question. Like, he was literally tweaking, and credit to McCarthy, too. They were literally tweaking and fixing things. And so it takes a month and a half from a really well-thrown ball that sails five yards above a guy's head to become a ball that Tristan Jackson catches in stride at the six yard line and walks into the end zone. Like this is the, this is the process that makes me really optimistic about this. Folks, U.S. Cellular noticed that the way we use our phones has gotten ironic. We try to put our phones down for dinner, but the menu is on a QR code. That's ironic. We hit like on social media posts that we don't actually like.

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over and over but sometimes the cliches are true yeah and in this case it was going to be a process and we all thought that whoever landed with the Vikings was landing with a great situation with O'Connell and Josh McCown. And to see it come to fruition does give you a lot of trust into the future of JJ McCarthy, which is why Zulgad, I think Mark Wilf should come out and say, gotcha. I'm actually signing Kevin O'Connell to an extension. Here's, here's what I think they don't necessarily need to do that. They can wait however long they want, but in this year could be now a little, it might have some rockiness to it, but I think what is really important for the ownership here is to see how this thing was playing out. And I mean this from

a front office and a head coaching situation where the front office has put a roster on the field that can be good into the future and has set up the salary cap. This goes for Kwesi, but also Rob Brzezinski, still a massive part of this organization to have both of them working on the salary cap to set them up to build around McCarthy for where they are. And then the coach to execute these things like this, this is going according to plan. And what I would like to see from the Wilfs is to see this through because the process is good and it makes sense to me, all the things that they've done up to this point. So I don't want this season to be judged on the shoulders of Sam Darnold, though. I definitely see some Jeff George, Sam Darnold, uh, in this situation, but I don't want it to be judged

entirely on those shoulders. And the one complication there is that even though yes, McCarthy probably wouldn't save the season. What he could have done late in the season is come in, get a couple of wins, play well, and then be able to say, or even in mid season, play well, go four and four down the stretch. Oh yeah. The kids got it. I mean, you gotta keep us in place. You gotta lock this in for a long period of time. If he is out for most or all of the season, you don't have that excitement button. You don't have that. Hey, this is what we're doing here overall. Don't worry about the one in five start. Um, you might end up just riding it out and not having a good season, but I, I really think it's important for them to see how this operation is functioning and say,

this is the right thing to keep doing if the wilfs don't extend o'connell in particular they are not nearly as smart as i thought um i actually think the injury to mccarthy especially if he's lost for the majority if not all of the season assures o'connell of an extension because can you really judge him on Sam Darnold so far career flop one year contract like I'm convinced he's going to get an extension I don't know when I will say this though we also have to be careful and I haven't thought of this until now with with what's transpiring but if Kevin O'Connell milks a really good year from Darnold, Darnold's going to get a multi-year contract, really well paid elsewhere. He's not coming back here, in my opinion.

But you know what? The price of Kevin O'Connell goes up. If I'm Kevin O'Connell and I hit it and Sam Darnold knocks it out of the proverbial park for him, if I'm O'Connell, I'd say, hey, you didn't extend me when you could have. Let's talk. Let's talk. You know, I'd send my agent in, of course. Let's talk contract here and let's talk about what I deserve, especially if the Vikings overachieve in 24. I mean, 22 was with Zimmer and Rick Spielman's club, but it was still a playoff team. 23, you could point at some factors, but I am surprised they haven't extended O'Connell, and I don't understand exactly why. I know he's got a year left, but when you got the higher right, and it certainly

appears they've gone from a surly guy who hated his quarterback to a guy who's trying to develop Sam Darnold now and doing God's work I am perplexed and I think the Wilfs would be smarter to extend him sooner rather than later because to go back to what I said before Matthew we both cover a ton of coaches and I mean if they're not good we just say they're they're not good like like I'm not gonna I'm not gonna protect O'. But from what I've seen, I've been impressed. The only thing that didn't impress me was if it was O'Connell or whoever had Donatel in here in 22, but they replaced him with Flores, who's been phenomenal. Right. And that sort of speaks to the functionality of things and the competency of things, which is a hard level to get to in the NFL. And once you've reached it, you have to be very careful about when you decide to make

a change because we know what the impact of a disaster coach is. The Vikings haven't had one in a while, but look around the league. Look at Sam Darnold's past coaches, the Matt rules, the Adam Gase. Once you're out of the woods there, I don't think you need number one, but you definitely need top 10 to 12 in order to give yourself a chance to win a Super Bowl. With Sam Darnold in particular, I keep going back and forth between pulling up his pro football reference page and looking at it and going, whew, that's nasty. That's ugly. I don't like it. And then watching him in practice and seeing

him throw the ball in the general direction of justin jefferson and going oh my gracious we have seen in vikings history the wade wilson's of the world huck it toward anthony carter we've seen the jeff george and randall cunningham huck it toward randy moss and even gus ferrat had a run there my god he just threw it to randy moss over and over again and we had uh gus on shows in the past and that's what he said he did he basically just threw it toward randy moss smart uh and then case keenum with theolin and diggs and even you could say this for kirk, he played better here than he did in Washington. And it's probably not a coincidence that he had Thielen and digs or Thielen and Jefferson wide receivers who are great and good offensive schemes make quarterbacks better. This is a fact.

The question is how much better, is it better than he's ever been, but not that great. Is it a lot better than he's ever been, like Case Keenum was? Was Case Keenum just such a random thing we should never reference it? Like, how crazy do you want to get about Sam Darnold? Because I have a feeling we're about to see a hell of a lot of Sam Darnold. Yeah, this is interesting, because one is deep ball, and training camp has been outstanding. Now, that's training camp.

I thought on Saturday, I actually thought his one drive, what 12 plays was impressive. Yeah, they didn't get the fourth down, but I still liked what he did. I have a bit, and this has been on and off, but I will say this. One clear difference to me between the arm talent of Darnold and JJ McCarthy is especially the crossing routes because O'Connell loves those with Justin there was one again last night in the night practice that Justin tipped up Bynum almost picked but if you watched it it was just a smidge behind him and that's the ball that

type of ball has got to be put right there and I'm going to tell you right now I don't think Justin screwed up so um dare, um, dare I say this, dare I say best case, I think that you just named a bunch of guys that Darnold's best year could look like. And I'll start with this one, Gus Farratt. Gus Farratt was a very serviceable to your point. He had the wide receivers. He knew it. He's like, I'm going to let you do the work. I've got the arm. I'm gonna let you you do the work. Keenum was such an aberration. I don't know what to make of that one because he was just, he was a shooting star and you sort of knew that that was one and done. But yeah, I think we're about to see a lot of Darnold

and I think we're about to see hopefully for his sake that he is a very serviceable quarterback who could be made on some Sundays to look far better than that because of the talent. And that's where a team will get fooled and be like, oh, we got to pay this guy. He's been fixed. And then they'll put them with their crappy receivers and he won't be fixed. But I mean, I do have, I do have hopes that Sam Darnold is not going to be a train wreck. I don't think he, you know, the Jets and Panthers, my God. And could you start off, you know, what happens if you put J.J. McCarthy on the same Jets team? OK, let's a high draft pick. Let's say let's say let's replace his Sam's life with J.J. And let's put J.J. with gaze there.

Like, does J.J. McCarthy have a chance? I mean, I still think I honestly think that Drake may could not be in a worse place than the Patriots right now. And I honestly think that if you transported Drake made a TCO right now, I think he might be a pro bowl player eventually. Yeah, I think, um, so I go back and forth a little bit on these things. The extremes probably matter a lot. The Brock Purdy goes to San Francisco is the extreme of the extreme. I mean, that's the best offensive mind in the league with the best offensive talent in the league. And no surprise. Uh, I mean, I guess it is still a surprise, but no surprise. He gets the best possible version of whatever quarterback is there, whether it was Jimmy Garoppolo or even

Sam Darnold when he played or, uh, Brock Purdy. So whatever the absolute maximum of what you could be as a quarterback is in San Francisco or Matt Ryan is an MVP with Kyle Shanahan. That's what you can be. And if you are with the jets, when Darnold got there, which was with Todd Bowles, and then they go to Adam Gase, which is exactly what you should do, right? Fire a coach right after you drafted a quarterback high. Uh, I mean, I, I believe in ruining someone in that way because we've seen enough guys come from the ruins to become good quarterbacks like Vinny Testaverde, like Gino Smith, depending on what era, depending on, uh, you know, what you think of Baker Mayfield, but he probably falls into that category as well. Got set behind a little bit in his development. And if you're in the middle, if you're at all teetering, you could be pushed far one way or another based on what you have. And with McCarthy

to get him with this development system and with the receivers they have and so forth, it gives him the best possible chance to succeed. It also means that gives Darnold the best possible chance that he will ever have in his life to succeed is right here, right now. And I think that that could result in them competing for a playoff spot and being a 500 team. As we talk about this, sometimes I think people think we mean 15 and 1 like randall cunningham i don't mean that i don't even mean case keenum it just feels like there's enough explosive ability there and arm talent and throwing with anticipation but also we see the shortcomings he got picked off last night with a bad pass with andrew van ginkel who i think is going to be awesome, by the way, picks him off.

Just didn't see him there. It's, it's really unfortunate that the guy said he was seeing ghosts because that kind of is the issue is that he doesn't always see things. Those throws over the middle aren't as pristine as you want them to be. But what I think is that now that McCarthy is down, at least for some time, what Vikings fans have to do here is kind of just throw up their arms and go,

Hey, let's, let's just go along for the ride. Let's just see whatever happens here. We know where this is going for the future. And if it's a disaster, it's a disaster. And if Darnold is really good, then this could be fun. But the roster that we see right now, I think has all the bones of what it's going to be next year. So it's not like this is some sort of last chance and then it's going to fall apart.

I think that has to do with the way that they've thought out their timeline. Yeah, I think so. I think as far as going back to the bones of the roster, I think there's two positions at which you're going to have to largely redo the rooms, potentially. Obviously, cornerback. Like, if you get Gilmore in here, he's 34-ish. Shaq Griffin comes back, hopefully, one day. And Byron Murphy Jr., who's in the last year of his contract, and in my opinion is largely just a jag, he's just a guy.

I could see them all being gone i could see a few guys sticking around but the fact is you're going to want to you're going to want to get appreciably better and you didn't this year because it's a it's again going through process and defensive tackle room um you know i and i wouldn't be shocked if you tried to upgrade a guard but i'm with you a lot of this is set and so and look if you're gonna have bad luck if i'm i will say this take it this year like i if i'm the vikings i beg roger goodell to suspend addison this year if you're gonna pinch him for three games do it now don't do it next year so and if you know if this is just a one-time thing with McCarthy, I'd far prefer he misses

as much time as he misses this year. Because in my opinion, in 25, it might not be disastrous, but it would be really bad. So I'll take my bad luck now. But I think from the standpoint of sports fans in this town, I don't blame them because it just feels like we get kicked continually. Whether that be the Twins, whether that be blame them because it just feels like we get kicked continually, whether that be the twins, whether that be the Vikings, it just feels like we're always being kicked. And the McCarthy thing was a cool, shiny toy and now it's been taken away. So I totally get the angst about this. Absolutely. Yeah. Oh yeah, for sure. When you've had so many of these things go wrong

throughout history, even on the baseball side where it's like Byron Buxton could be one of the best dang players in the whole league if he could stay healthy and even with Royce Lewis. So if you're consuming all of those things, uh, you've seen these injuries crop up all the time and, uh, ruin your day and future as cheering for sports so yeah I get it I don't think this is like that meniscuses happen uh I'm making the t-shirts meniscuses happen meniscus happens meniscus happens uh and I think you know either way his development path isn't severely altered it's more of a bump in a road than a total detour of where this franchise was going to be. Let me ask you just about a couple other things that you have observed

out in a training camp, even though we could talk about the quarterbacks and the timeline and the management all day long. What do you think about what they have defensively overall? I mean, we talked about the corners and the tackles. It's such a feast or famine with this defense. The safeties are so good. The edge rushers are so good. I want to hear what you think of Dallas Turner so far, but the weaknesses are extremely weak. So where should we set this bar defensively? I think we should dial it to F for fun. Because I think if you're like, this is going to be a shutdown defense. I mean, those corners could get exposed. I mean, hell, you know, Shaq Griffin was supposed to play. He's hurt, but it's not like he's coming off a great

year. He's old too. And he played for two teams last year. Like this could, those guys could get lit up. But that being said, it's interesting because on the surface, when Daniil signed with the Texans, you're like, oh, damn, Daniil Hunter. That's a lot of sacks, heck of a player, and he is a great player. But the fact is you then saw what Flores did with the edge room, and how interesting is it that they brought in a bunch of guys who clearly fit his vision of edges and they're not Daniil at all they're these smaller guys that are quick I mean Dallas Turner speaking to him on

Saturday oh my god and and you know in practice you can really judge like receivers quarterbacks edges I struggle with because you can see them get around the corner but then they can't do a thing you know so it's like okay you didn't get to hit the quarterback and in fact it pulls up at times so Dallas Turner to me I looked it up and I'm sure this comparison has been made perhaps by you as well but height wise size wise Micah Parsons like he's got the same profile as Parsons and when I saw that speed, holy Hannah. So I like that one. Grenard is not going to be Daniil, but again, he's also built differently. Van Ginkle, unknown because of the foot, but like you said, the play last night was good. And he, and so like the edge rushing room is better.

It probably lost one of the best players, but it overall has more depth. Defensive line, very skeptical. Very skeptical still. Linebackers, you know, Hicks was a nice player, but he was a little bit long in the tooth. I'm curious. I think Pace is going to be a year better. I think Cashman, I don't know if my expectations are through the roof.

That wouldn't be fair. But I think they're going to use two linebackers at times more than previous. And like you said, that safety room is – and I know Theo Jackson had a bad game on Saturday. He doesn't suck, folks. Theo Jackson's a really good player. There was confusion on the touchdown. But when you could put out Josh Metellus, Theo Jackson, Harrison Smith, and Bynum, and I do think, as we've've discussed there is no question Harrison Smith is

going to get series is off his snap count ain't gonna be what it was he's gonna go on that Greenway plan when when Chad took a pay cut now a linebacker got hurt so he came back and played a ton but the original plan was you're not gonna play a ton I think Theo is going to play there so I would say this should be fun. Floor is fun because they're going to get after teams. I don't know they're going to always shut them down. Yeah, when it comes to evaluating the defense from the preseason game, my thing was I needed the defensive line to look a little more stout on the interior.

You shouldn't just hand it off and have the guy walk into the end zone. Jaqueline Roy had a really tough game. I thought he was a guy that everyone was hoping to take a step we just really haven't seen that um andre carter is another guy they were hoping hoping would improve haven't really seen that either but with the secondary they're just not running their stuff they're not showing the things that they're going to do and then like you mentioned on that touchdown the nearest person always gets dinged with the touchdown. But in that case, I think Theo Jackson was probably in the right. That's just my guess. And it was supposed to be something different happening there.

In practice, he's one of their best players consistently, and they have full buy-in to him. That's why, I mean, fun is a good description, maybe of shape-shifting because now they have more options so last year it was blitz or drop eight blitz or drop a and those were the only two options to push but now you have you could put in a nickel corner with uh byron murphy jr and that's maybe the goal of trying to sign stefan gilmore who i think they badly want to come sign here.

And, you know, with Josh Metellus, move him out to the edge rusher at times, move him back to the deeper safety, which we've seen from him at times. There can be even more options and more buttons for Brian Flores to push. So I think even watching that tape back and watching on a play-to-play basis will be like,

oh, where's that guy? Who's in the game? And there was a little of that last year, but I think we're going to see even more of it for this year. Are you buying the Jalen Naylor hype train? Are you getting a Jalen Naylor back tattoo of number 83 all the way across your shoulder blades. I consider myself to be in the front car. I consider myself to be in the front car.

Yes, I think he is wide receiver three. Now, he is not for sure right now because their immediate three receiver package last night because they started team drills, obviously, with Jefferson and Addison and Brandon Powell came in. And I think the only, the only internal skepticism is, is he going to get hurt? I think he's broke their heart a lot.

You know, it's like, he looks good. Cause he's never looked bad. Like I don't, I don't remember an extended Jalen Naylor period of playing where it's like, oh yeah, I don't think he's good.

So yes, I am buying the hype. If he stays healthy, I think't think he's good. So yes, I am buying the hype if he stays healthy. I think he will be the three. But you know what? Let's not sleep on Tristan Jackson too, just as a variable here at some point, not immediately. His game on Saturday was legit last night. Good old slinging Mullins, Nick slinging the ball around, finding eight left and right as well. But yes, to answer your question, I am buying stock, but I understand that when it comes to Naylor in particular, there's always going to be skepticism about is he going to come in with turf toe or a hamstring or something. Right, because he really has to get through the real games and a lot of them, he's not a really big guy. And last year, the hit that he took that he got a concussion was like, man, I wonder if a bigger guy can protect

himself a little better from something like that. And you're just going to wonder about that until it's not a problem anymore with Tristan Jackson. Uh, I think he's on the team. It's just, does he, and I think Shurfield actually has a good chance to make it too, because O'Connell has talked so much about him as an option as a run blocker, which is generally thought to be important in McVay inspired offenses. Uh, but with Jackson, he's just, he's one of those guys that 10 years later, he's going to finish his career with 14 catches or something, but fans are gonna be like, remember that guy that just crushed preseason every year and training camp they'd always be talking about him i think he's really well liked and and some of the technique that he had in that game the deep ball how he kind of slingshots that corner and gets around him but stays at a high velocity i think i think you play in the nfl it's

just if you've gotten to tristan jackson something probably went wrong. Oh, yeah, no, he's not free. Right, so he's better down the road. I just threw him out because I like him. But, yeah, no, I think your receivers are Jefferson, Addison, Naylor, Powell, probably, and then the rest. But, yeah, I think they signed Shurfield, not because he's great, but because he's a pro's pro. Yeah. Like, he does all special teams blocking i don't think we understand first of all the amount of receivers that either block or don't block downfield and the the value of the ones that actually do because some of them hate it i'm sure

you've talked oh yeah too like they do not want to throw a block and it's like if there's a run play you might want to throw a block although uh it might be a hint of what's going on when like when nikhil harry came in last year for a couple of plays i think they're gonna run uh maybe you could build a play action package off of that okay last thing's all good because of your reputation, this is where we need to go to end the show. I need the hottest Zulged camp slash preseason take that you have. And it doesn't have to be about the Vikings. I need something that you have been talking about, or you've been thinking about where everybody's reaction is. Judd.

Come on, Judd. I need that. I need to know what that has been. Trying to think if there's been one this camp, because I've been pretty positive about things. Do you think Will Reichert is the best kicker ever? I feel like a positive Zolgad is still a hot Zolgad. I think there's a lot to like here. Well, I think they're going in the right direction. And so I actually like where they're at. My hottest, my hottest take would be, there'll be a few.

This is one of the worst, in my opinion right now, worst cores of cornerbacks I have ever covered with the Vikings. I think it's atrocious. Are we at Sir Wonga level or? We're damn close. And they traded. I mean, they traded their second round pick from 22 for a bus from Dallas.

Like they're literally like Andrew Booth and Louis scene is not going to make this team. I think they're going to have to just cut him. I think it's a recent hot take. I will give you now. This is a, in the trenches hot take. Okay.

I don't, I don't think Dalton Reisner makes this team. He has not practiced in a week and a half yeah uh they really like that michael jurgens who i think is a seventh round pick from wake correct he was originally so originally opening a camp they moved reisner to right guard where he never played in his life he said and he was going to be like the backup right guard. I think they were trying to train him to be a swing guard because Blake Brandel is going to play because he can run block. Well, Reisner got hurt about a week and a half ago or more, and we haven't seen him since. And Juergens has moved from, I think, guard to center now.

And Feeney's kicked out. My point being is I think all they've been through with Dalton, right? He was going to sign last year when he came in. He didn't sign. We got into the season, he signs. Ezra Cleveland's traded, he's starting. And then he comes back for five cents. I think he gets cut. I don't think he's going to make it. And I do think that we're going to have a few surprise draft picks make this team. I think Jurgens might make it because he's versatile inside um and i'm curious about some of the udfas tyrese robinson is a guy he's not an undrafted free agent this year but somebody picked up from another team he had a really good game and i don't

know how much of a factor that is versus what they've seen in practice but he he caught my eye yeah somebody i think that this is not even that blazing. That's only like two out of five Zilgads because Reiser was not even happy when he got here. I mean, it seemed like he was kind of complaining about not getting enough money and saying he had no other options. He just seems like a guy that doesn't quite live in the reality of the situation. nobody in the league thinks you're an above average starter because you can't run block and that's how it is i think that he wanted a lot of money this offseason and last offseason and the entire league was like

for why and yeah clearly then he comes here and yeah i mean the fact that he's banged up maybe it's something serious or maybe it's more just like not really happy with the, because he got no chances. So what Kevin O'Connell said, and O'Connell does have to be careful about this, by the way, this is something that we've seen coaches Mike Zimmer run into before in the past. be a competition and then you never give the guy a single rep and you move his position it's not a competition and the player is going to feel like they were lied to or you're lying to the public got to be a little bit careful about that i'm not saying it matters he did say that right i'm not saying it matters with don risner but just you know it's something to maybe how about five is fair that that's fair give me something for for the league. You got a hot league take? Yes. Yes.

I got something that's pissing me off, actually, about this entire league. And we saw this very briefly last year with Hunter. And it's got to be fixed. The hold-in. Oh, yeah. So Brandon Ayuk's been in training camp with San Francisco, not practicing. And I believe because teams don't want to basically admit that they're going along with the players hold in they always come up with why he's out right like last year well Hunter's dealing with something well no he's not he is being paid to

not practice right and this Iuke thing is a jump the shark it's absolutely ridiculous this has to be resolved in the next CBA these guys if they don't want to practice they need to be resolved in the next CBA. These guys, if they don't want to practice, they need to be fined. This charade, I don't know if agents developed this or what, but this absolute, I mean. NBA, the NBA did. It started there, I think. It's absolutely stupid to have it be like, well, he is, he's dealing with, you know, TJ Hawkinson last year,

dealing with an ear infection. And by the way, it's bad luck. It's bad luck because the football gods come and bite you in the ass and your knee blows up because you lied about something else. But league-wide, that's among the things that is really annoying me because it is so stupid and it's made up completely. Right. We could just be

straightforward about it i mean you don't have to and then find them going on yeah and then the guy should and then the dude should just be fine this whole thing of keeping them happy because they're not practicing this is football i'll give you uh one one and one i'll give you one with the two out of five heat and one that's a little bit hotter. Cause I think that's a good one. You being upset that players are holding in. That's a good one. And suggesting that TJ Hawkinson's ACL tour because of karma.

Now that's full Zolgad right there. That's karma. That's karma, don't do that. My two out of five one would be that I don't think we've seen the best of this kickoff thing. And I think it's going to be phenomenal oh god i think everyone's going to love it right now it doesn't matter but everyone will very shortly love it once the teams start doing what they're actually going to do they're not

showing you they're they're running base stuff and they're not showing you so i i think it's going to be great the other one is correct i think the the bills might miss the playoffs because in that division, if Rogers is healthy, no matter how much weird tea that he's drinking and Miami is really dang good, they could be in trouble. And I still don't understand trading Stefan digs to a conference rival that could be in the playoffs against you. But I also think anytime i hear oh it's it's actually better we don't have our number one wide receiver i think oh yeah really because you know never complained about that was the vikings when they had randy moss and had like

the best offenses in the league it's just you know never complained about that is atlanta with julio jones or you know jerry rice with san francisco you know what never said? Good thing we got like three receivers instead of one good one. I'm glad Jerry Rice is with the Seahawks now. He's still with the Raiders out there or the Broncos or whatever. Hell, the hell teams he played for. I like that one. And I think Buffalo's window might just be closed to the sports all about windows. Yep.

Like it literally is. You can see them open. You can see them shut. It's the most clear cut. I think it's the most clear cut window sport that exists. They'll still be good, but I can have a 2020 feeling from them of, oh, yeah, we lost a bunch of key players, but no, it's totally fine. It's not usually.

Has McDermott's act worn thin there? I think that he recovered from the Tyler Dunn report. Oh, what happened early? I think early it was a total wreck. And then I also think that after 13 seconds, it was a total wreck, but they got used to it. It's sort of like how at times they were used to Zimmer, but then as soon as something went wrong, it was, oh yeah, that's how he is. I, it might be the same thing. I don't think, you know, how in the Godfather, a wartime consigliere, I don't know that he's that, I don't know that he can guide that like

a Mike Tomlin who's thick and thin. It doesn't matter. I think when things hit the fan, it might be more difficult for him. If they start losing, he's always had this quarterback and wide receiver combination that's kept them above water. So now if that drifts a little, where does his leadership go? I don't know if he's built for that. It might be, it might be it for him if this doesn't go well. So anyway, yeah. Uh, Judd, this was very fun. Always great as a throwback. We didn't wear the same shirt on purpose. No, we did not. But these are nice shirts. Mine's from Target.

Maroon. This is like plain shirt. Target? I probably, I don't remember. Mine's from Target. And this is a comfortable shirt. I love this shirt. Great to hear.

So, you know, we'll be, well, I'm going to Cleveland. You'll be back. Enjoy Cleveland. When do you leave? Tomorrow? Tonight. Yep'll be back. Enjoy Cleveland. When do you leave, tomorrow? Tonight, yep, later tonight. So actually as people watch this, I may be in the air on my way to Cleveland.

So thanks for your time. I'm glad we could get together on a hectic and busy day. And I will see you soon.