Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Justin Jefferson contract update (kinda) and the Arizona Cardinals are really going for No. 1

Episode Date: August 29, 2023

Matthew Coller talks about Albert Breer's report on Justin Jefferson's contract situation and discusses the Arizona Cardinals and many NFC teams rebuilding while the Vikings try to thread the needle. Plus talk about Kyler Murray's future, the 53-man roster and what's next going into Week 1. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here, and you will notice right off the bat that I'm talking pretty quietly. And it is not because I'm in the airport or a number of other places I've done podcasts through the years. It is because after Saturday, my voice completely gave out, which is why there was no show on Sunday. Not because I mean, there was a big trade that the Vikings had a Vardarian low, which we'll get to. But I couldn't do an emergency podcast after that because I had absolutely no voice at

all. And I think I have just enough to do a show here tonight. But also, there's a lot going on that we need to talk about. And tomorrow as well, when the Vikings make their final cuts, of course, we'll be here on the show as usual. But no surprise, I'm not the first person to come back from Las Vegas with some physical issues. I need a haircut. My face is still burned from Las Vegas and I have no voice, but once a year, it happens to me every single year at some point.

I mean, we've done so many shows through training camp and I appreciate everyone who has showed up here night after night that it just gives out. And so I guess it helped me grind through that final preseason game and then collapsed, but that's all right. We'll keep pushing through it, and we'll come back eventually. I've got some Gatorade here, which I think is maybe a little more helpful than Diet Dr. Pepper toward the voice, but probably not.

It's not great. Also, I'll try to go as long as we can on this chat, and I appreciate you guys coming along with me for that to ask your questions, get your comments in here before the Vikings make their final cuts. So far, they've made a handful of cuts and no surprises. But first, before I get into your questions and comments, I want to go through a few things that are the headlines for today

that would be relevant to the Vikings. And of course, we'll start out with Viderian Lowe being traded. And I don't have a lot to say about that. I mean, they already have Blake Brandl and Ole Udo as their swing tackles. It seemed like the Patriots were desperate and the Vikings were probably just going to cut Viderian Lowe anyway. At some point, they are expected to get Chris Reid back. So they do have some depth issues.

I feel like every team has depth issues, but they have Schlotman, Udo, Brandl, and then when Reed returns, they'll have those four guys. And even though that doesn't make you feel great, it's probably about as good as you're going to find. And if they didn't have much interest after seeing two training camps of Darian Lowe and keeping him on the practice squad or continuing to develop him. Plus there's no real room for him to grow because you have two of the best tackles in the entire NFL. So it's not like Vardarian Lowe is going to get much chance.

He would just be sitting on the bench. They might as well give him an opportunity with the New England Patriots and they get back the draft pick that they spent. Not a big deal. Not much to talk about there. No surprises in the first cuts. Sort of the guys that you would typically expect that were playing in the third preseason game that, you know, we never really talked about because there wasn't much chance that they were going to make it anyway. The only one that might be slightly notable, the XFL player Abram Smith. I mean, I don't know. Did we think that they were going to use him as maybe some extra depth at running back? Probably not. But clearly they're going to be on the hunt. And I've noticed a handful of running backs around the league getting cut that the Vikings may have some

interest in if they feel like Kenny Wong was not going to be ready and they're not super thrilled with Dwayne McBride and with Ty Chandler. So there might be some opportunities there to pick up some running backs, but nothing that was really shocking or surprising from the first day. Tanner Vallejo, who they picked up as a special teamer, they released him. Again, no shocks there. Albert Breer has a report on Justin Jefferson's contract extension, which is pretty vague and not surprising. He just said that the Vikings want to get it done. Yeah, I mean, no surprises here either with Justin Jefferson's extension, but at least gives us an idea that there may be some sort of progress toward it.

And all of this offseason, we just talked about being patient with this one. It's complicated. There's a lot to work through, but both sides have a lot of incentive to get this done. And it wouldn't be surprising if it went sort of to the final hour, but he's just putting it out there that the Vikings want to do this.

Obviously they do. Kweisi Adafo-Mensa has made no bones about it from the very outset that he wants to sign justin jefferson to a huge extension it just comes down to all the details how long it's going to be how much guaranteed money it's going to be and then the little things around that is there something in there so they can't franchise tag him the next time around after he becomes a free agent again. So anyway, also the Cardinals cut their quarterback, which is kind of funny, right? Like we already knew that the Arizona Cardinals were going for the tank as if starting Colt McCoy wasn't enough of a tank type of move. They decided to cut Colt McCoy. And it's not that he's

a good quarterback or that he's ever been a good quarterback, but, you know, at least he's gone three and three in his last six games as an Arizona Cardinal. And now they're talking about potentially starting Clayton Toon or even Josh Dobbs, which is pretty brutal. You're talking about guys who have basically never started at all. So that, you know, the Cardinals decide that they're going to cut Colt McCoy from all the reports. He didn't look very good in training camp anyway. And so they've decided why not just go in with somebody else. And I don't think that that's any more indicative of their tank than everything else they did. I mean, they moved on from Deandre Hopkins and they all, I mean, they already tore this thing to the ground. I mean, they moved on from DeAndre Hopkins and they, I mean, they already tore this thing

to the ground. I mean, they, they hired a new coach, they hired a new general manager, you know, they're, they're really rebuilding from the very outset. And I think that the interesting thing about a lot of NFC teams is that that's what's happening around the league in the NFC and the AFC. These teams are either restarting with top draft pick quarterbacks like Anthony Richardson or CJ Stroud, or to some extent from a couple of years ago, even Trevor Lawrence. But, you know, everybody else is really all in. I mean, the only team where you could say, oh, I don't know what they're doing is really Vegas, because Vegas should be tanking. And yet they decided to go out and get,

you know, Jimmy Garoppolo. I'm not sure really why they decided to do that because they had a chance to just, you know, go ahead and go to the bottom in that division. They would have lost every game had they decided to tank and they would have had a good chance to get Caleb Williams. So they could have easily done that. They were in position. But think with josh mcdaniels when you consider that he's only in his second year and the hot seat is already probably on when you just look at how they perform last year versus expectations to get back to the playoffs they must have decided that they want to see him get back to the postseason but it just doesn't seem like it's very logical that that's going to happen. But aside from him and the AFC, and aside from the Raiders, it's just all teams that are all in. It's the Jets with Aaron Rodgers. It's the Bills chasing a Super Bowl. It's the Chargers trying to

get the most out of Justin Herbert. It's Kansas City, the premier team in the league. And that's just how it is. Even the Steelers, with a young Kenny Pickett, they're trying to take a big step forward. Or even with the Patriots, they're trying to make the most out of Mac Jones in his, what, third year now? And they made a huge mistake last year. So they're trying to take that step forward as well. But in the NFC, you have a lot of teams that have taken a different tact,

where a lot of the teams in the NFC, the Bears, the Lions, even Atlanta trading away Matt Ryan a couple years ago, really decided that they were going to take a step back. And the Vikings have decided that they're going to play the middle. And that's a very interesting place to be because if you're trying to play that middle while everyone is tanking around you, you have to bet on you getting there faster than those teams who are tanking and rebuilding. So anyway, we have the Vikings

that are playing the middle here and they are in the competitive rebuild. And so every time we see a team that is clearly tanking, it makes me think about that team, right? And it makes me think about how, you know, the Lions and their favor to win the division and the Bears might be favored to win it next year, depending on how this year goes for Justin Fields

and how the Vikings had a chance last year to take more of that route. And somebody early in the comments, maybe it was T. Kubler. Nice to see you again. Said, yeah, is it possible to tank when you have the second best player in the NFL on your roster? And the answer is, you know, tanking does not always have to be like you lose every game and go three and 14 tanking or rebuilding can really be also like just resetting and not trying to chase every W. So for example, if the Vikings last year turned into the Carolina Panthers, for example, and they were able to trade up to number one, I mean, how would we have felt about that? Like, let's say that the Vikings, instead of winning 13 games, and I'm not saying that, you know, you want to give that back. That was a really fun season, but it's just a thought experiment that I'm thinking about today as tanking is a part of the discussion again, right?

Is if the Vikings decided that they were going to trade Kirk Cousins, say, to Indianapolis or something. Indianapolis traded for Matt Ryan. Let's say that they traded Cousins to Indianapolis. And they signed Marcus Mariota instead. And Mariota was pretty bleh, pretty bad, but not so horrendously bad. And then they would have won seven games, right? Probably with what happened last year. So if you win seven games and you still have the bones of stuff that could be really good. So we're talking about like Justin Jefferson, Christian Derrissaw, just speaking to your question, is you still have these areas where you're great

and where you'll be great enough to win a few games. But at the same time, you can trade up to get your Bryce Young, to get your Anthony Richardson, whoever you would have drafted at the top, just like Carolina did. Because you can't tell me that Carolina was seriously chasing a victory last year, right? Like, or a playoff spot last year, they signed Baker Mayfield, they had Sam Darnold, they ran back Matt Rule. Like Carolina clearly had its eye on the top of the draft. And when they got their opportunity, they were within sight of doing it. So how would we feel about the Vikings right now if they had had that opportunity but last year was miserable?

So we're going to be thinking about that probably for a long time is where they're at now and where they have to go to get to the top versus where they could have been right now had they drafted Bryce Young or Anthony Richardson or whoever they thought was the number one quarterback in the draft. It's just something I'm thinking about when you have so many players on the team that are good. And it's true that you can't tank. And tanking is miserable and it's horrible on everyone in the organization. And I think when you, you know, go through that as an organization, a lot of people lose their jobs and it's ugly and it's miserable. But if you were ever in a position to have done it, it would have been last year. It really wasn't this year, although this year resulted in moving on from a lot of, you know, key veteran players. But I think we could all agree that players like Adam

Thielen, players like Delvin Cook, those guys were not going to give the same production that they did in the past. So they are still in a winning type of mode. They signed players like Byron Murphy and Marcus Davenport to try to win games, but they, so they're chasing the playoffs and yet trying to rebuild a lot of spots of the roster, which is very different from what a team like Arizona is doing. But what what's, what's really just coming together for me today is the timelines of the entire NFC, not just the timeline of the Vikings or the lions or the bears or the Packers who, if Jordan Love is average, are really stuck in the middle pretty bad, I think. But everybody in the NFC and how many teams have done either a tank or kind of a

reset or kind of a rebuild. And that's where Carolina comes in as a team that did not tank. And they were competitive last year. They had a lot of good games that they played. And PJ Walker was their quarterback for half the year. He's not even good, but they had enough star talent and enough defense. So they were a competitive team last year. And I look at them and say, well, that kind of could have been you. You couldn't have been what the Cardinals are. The Cardinals are just so horrific that I mean, with the Vikings practicing against them this week, it looks like a JV team. And so, I mean, it was just, it was just like obvious that they are a complete tank team and you know, they're not in a good situation from their roster, but in a situation where they can get all the way to the bottom, that would not have been the Vikings. And I guess that's what's on my mind is for this year, they, I think, had less of an opportunity to do that because if you win 13 games and then you trade Kirk Cousins, it's just really weird.

I mean, that's almost like a bridge too far. Like you could get rid of a running back. You could get rid of a pass rusher, a defensive tackle. But if you get rid of a quarterback that just won you that many games, then it's going to look like, OK, what is going on here? And the ownership doesn't want that either. They want a repeat of last year. They want to be in the playoffs and then eventually find their quarterback down the road.

But this was a chance, maybe, or maybe it will be a chance for them to take a step back to some extent and end up with a quarterback. But if it's not, and they end up, say, 9-8 or 10-7, then it does put them in a difficult spot. And then teams like Chicago, teams like Detroit, like Arizona, like Atlanta, Carolina, who have gone to the bottom are going to have an edge in the NFC going forward. I don't think there's any way around that, but there is a scenario where the Vikings can have this all work out. And that is if they are able to, I think, win enough games to make the playoffs or whatever, but still be in a position to draft a quarterback where they can have belief that that quarterback is going to take them somewhere.

And I don't mean to use this team as an example because I think that this guy is going to win the Super Bowl, but just say that Kenny Pickett works out. Just say, for the Pittsburgh Steelers. The Pittsburgh Steelers are a team that never tanks. They always stay at worst in the middle. They make the playoffs every year. They're a really good coach. And I think the Vikings have too good of a coach to tank as well. So they have a good coach and they compete every single year,

even when they don't have great quarterback play. And then what they're hoping is that Kenny Pickett could be just good enough and they can build this roster around him, even though he was not a top overall draft pick. And there's been a number of players, a number of quarterbacks over the years who have not been the number one quarterback. And, you know, I, I think, um, that your odds aren't that different if you take the third quarterback or the fourth quarterback. You guys are funny. It's the preseason, Matt. It's the preseason. KOC would like to be resting you. Yeah, that's a good point. I think if I have a drink every like five to 10 minutes, I think I'll be all right. I think I'm working my way into it. Maybe, maybe Mike Tomlin is right. What did he say that you have to spar before you can fight or something? And I like Mike Tomlin a lot. I think he's a great coach,

but I don't agree with that. Not with the preseason. I agree with Kevin O'Connell. And when I saw Joseph Osai get hurt for Cincinnati, I was like, that's it. Joseph Osai is a good pass rusher for them. and he has a high ankle sprain, which is miserable, that he got in the preseason. And, you know, yikes. Like, that's a really bad injury for somebody that should not have been playing. And, you know, so Delton says Pickett is decent. He very well could be.

He could be good. And that's part of the point, is that the Vikings can thread this needle without tearing it all completely apart and losing. You do not have to be all the way at the bottom. I think that it helps your odds to be all the way at the bottom because it's not just the fact that it's drafting the number one quarterback, which does help if you could get Joe Burrow, for example. But it also sets you up with so much cap space. That's what Chicago is doing. So much cap space that when you get to the point where it's time to go and time to put the foot down and spend a bunch of money in free agency agency that you can do it. And you can go out and you can stack up your roster and then you can take that shot to win. So they decide not to do that. And I think that it's sort of like if you go to a Twins game,

you ever look at the scoreboard and they have the little characters that are racing each other? That's kind of how I'm looking at the timelines in the NFC. Like there are teams that are kind of racing each other and a team like Arizona is dropping back, but are they going to draft Caleb Williams and then jump up to the front of the line pretty quickly within two years? And I mean, we shouldn't discount Jacksonville as a team that has just recently done this as well. And even when you fail on these quarterbacks, when you think about the New York Jets and the roster that they've built over a couple of years of being bad, I don't know what Aaron Rodgers is going to be, but that roster is

really, really good. And if he has anything left that he hasn't just taken away from his body from, you know, being weird, then they're going to be a really good team because they've built it up for a couple of years. So that time kind of came and went and the Vikings chose their path. And I guess I think that the odds are a little bit closer to even than they are to a huge advantage to tanking. I think that if you can't tank, then you have to do it the way the Vikings have. But this will be worth watching because if Arizona plays this the way that they should, which is to lose every single game, and I'm not just totally buying that they will. I mean, Kyler Murray could potentially come back at some point.

And if they play Kyler Murray and win like five games or something, they are out of their skulls. But I would not put that past them because they're the Arizona Cardinals and they are one of the worst organizations in professional sports, I think. So I wouldn't be that surprised if they did something totally insane like that. But let's just assume that they're doing exactly what we think they're doing, which is trying to get Caleb Williams. And then they're going to have two first-round draft picks. I mean, you can't help but feeling a little jealous there.

But at the same time, the Vikings do have players in positions that usually take high draft picks that didn't take them high draft picks to become megastars, and that's Derrissaw and Jefferson. So there's a lot to give your next quarterback. And that's where this extension comes in. That's where Hawkinson comes in. So this question from Hunter, this takes me into the next part of the Arizona Cardinals Vikings discussion, which is if the Vikings are unable to trade up next year to draft a quarterback, what do you think they would do? This is where the Kyler Murray discussion comes in. People don't like the Kyler Murray discussion, I think,

because Kyler Murray doesn't have a great reputation. And what Taylor Swift says, my reputation's never been worse, that's Kyler Murray. His reputation has never been worse than it is right now that his team signed him to a massive extension that basically said hey you need to like try to watch film and i do think there's something to that with athletic quarterbacks at times not all of them of course but some throughout history i remember michael vick talking about this where they have done it so

much with athleticism that they really have to learn over the years to watch film and learn from film and everything else. And then when they do that, I mean, they could take a step forward in their career. And even Vick did after he came out of prison. But he was actually a better quarterback for a little while there with Philadelphia. I don't know if that will happen with Kyler Murray or not. I don't know Kyler Murray. I haven't covered him. So I, I don't know. And what I've heard is I would say mixed about Kyler Murray. I think most people that I've talked to have said he does not have leadership vibes that he doesn't come across like that guy, but also had one of the worst coaches, I think, of the last five years for the majority of his rookie

contract. And now this is where the trouble is with the Kyler Murray discussion is because his contract is humongous. You can restructure it and lower his salary cap hit. I poked around a little bit. But what Kyler Murray would bring is someone who is a playmaker with athletic're trying to catch him he has a huge arms major league baseball player level arm and i you know you look at the 2021 season about halfway through and this is not to say that i'm in love with this idea or they think they'll do it or something but if they move on from kirk and there's an opportunity there i, geez, you have to consider it if there's no quarterback to trade up for, right? Because you're talking about giving him Justin Jefferson and something important is a coach who knows what he's doing and a coach who is connected extremely well with his quarterback who was often talked about as not being a leader, right? And being kind of

frustrating in Kirk Cousins. And then those two were able to form a bond and a connection. So you're talking about giving him a really good offensive line that presumably has replaced maybe some of those positions, or we at least know that they've developed, but the tackle positions will be really important with Kyler Murray because of his escapability. With Kirk, I think the guards are important and the Vikings have just missed on also thinking those are important. That is really favorable. The wide receiver situation is favorable. The coach situation is favorable. Bland Toast asks, are you already giving up on the Dak Prescott 2024 take? That's very funny.

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's weird. Like, Jerry Jones has said a number of odd things regarding Dak Prescott. Like, he's trying to put a little pressure on Dak Prescott. And it's been a little strange, to tell you the truth, the way that he's sort of talked about Dak Prescott and his price tag and how that's hurt the roster building, which is very weird because their roster is fantastic. They've just, they just hit on a bunch of draft picks. And that's where the draft randomness kind of comes from is what was Micah

Parsons 12th overall. And I think Micah Parsons was thought of by draft analysts as the most talented player or one of the most talented players in that draft but there was some personality stuff and that was also the year that they you know players sat out so i think that made the evaluation harder and then he ends up turning into a megastar in the league uh trayvon diggs has become a dynamic player for them as well they've hit on some really good players uh cd lamb has become a superstar wide receiver so that well. They've hit on some really good players. C.D. Lamb has become a superstar wide receiver. So that's kind of the way that they've gotten around the Dak Prescott contract. But eventually, players like that are going to have to get paid. So Dallas's winning window is only another year or two. And then they would have to start talking about

something like that, like trading away Dak Prescott. The only thing about Dak Prescott is what's odd to me is over the last couple of years, his running has disappeared. His playmaking has disappeared. And if he's not running and playmaking, I'm not saying he's Kirk, but he's closer to Kirk. And if you have an expensive quarterback, who's not making plays with his legs and is pretty accurate and runs the offense really well, and is a pretty darn good player, but can't get you over the top, that's very Kirkian. And I don't know if they want to repeat that, but that, you know, that might, that might be the way a lot of you view Kyler is that he's really talented, but expensive and just flawed enough. The one area where Kyler

is different is that playmaking, but he didn't win in Arizona. So that would be taking a leap of faith, but that's what we're talking about. If only in the scenario that they can't draft someone, I still think that drafting someone will be far and away at the top of their list. Delton asks, let me ask you this. Do you think Netflix had anything to do with our success last year? No, I don't. I think that was just Kirk Cousins. I think they showed who he is.

I also think that if they had followed him around in 2021, it might have looked a little bit different. Things went well for them last year. And I think that Kirk Cousins felt more comfortable being himself than he's ever felt because of Kevin O'Connell and the situation that he created, the culture that he created there around Kirk Cousins, basically saying, you're my guy and putting his arm around him. And I think that helped his confidence. And also the other thing is to think about it this way. Like if you are a basketball player and your coach tells you, Hey, go stand in the corner and do nothing and shoot a three. If we pass you the ball,

you're gonna be like, okay, uh, sure. I'll do that. But you know that your coach doesn't trust you, right? If that's the case. You know your coach doesn't trust you with the basketball in your hands if he wants you to stand in the corner. That's the offense that the Vikings had in 2019 and 2020. It was, hey, Kirk, all we want you to do is just run play actions, throw the ball down the field. And maybe there was some element to last year with Kevin O'Connell saying,

look, you're going to get the shotgun. You're going to throw these downfield routes. You're not going to play it safe. You're going to be a little more risk-taking, push the ball into some more windows. And it took him half a season in order to get him to do it and to get him used to it. But eventually he did. I think that there's just something to that, like something to someone who's the head coach that has this ability to

give confidence to his quarterback and show belief in him. Kevin says, is there a worse starting quarterback than Kyler? I mean, we really have short memories in football, don't we? I mean, we really do. Because even if you go back, and i'll pull this up right now to 2021 also you guys should be proud the voice has held up for this long so we're doing good uh if you're just joining i lost my voice and um i'm trying the start was a little bit rocky and i appreciate everyone who hung through with me but that's why i sound weird and i'm working through it but i wanted to talk football with you guys. So if we go back to 2021 and we even just look at some of the, some of the overall statistics when it comes to Kyler Murray,

by his overall PFF grade in 2021, he was the seventh best quarterback in football. And you could say, well, okay, that's because of his running, but his passing grade was the third highest. He threw for almost eight yards per pass attempt. He had, let's see here, the second most big time throws in the NFL and was very good at not making turnover worthy plays. I mean, he was really excellent in 2021. And last year was a travesty. It was a horrible year for him. It was a horrible year for Cliff Kingsbury. He got hurt. But I also think that the reputation, the stuff that's been put out there and last year has really sullied how we think of Kyler Murray. But they didn't sign him to that contract just because they felt like it.

They signed him to that contract because he had an absolutely marvelous year. And, you know, I, I look at it as if that's the guy you're getting, you can certainly win if you're giving him Justin Jefferson as well. So it's just something to think about. It's just something to think about if it doesn't work out that they can draft anybody is if I'm going to go down and it's not going to work out or if I'm going to take a risk, at least you're doing it with somebody who is a dynamic player and can make plays out of structure and can make defenses pay and get pressured. And it doesn't just end the play and make throws downfield that very few people can throw. Like there's a special skill set there and it's worth considering. It's worth considering. And I, and, and this is,

this is a right on point by Larry. Uh, Kyler wasn't making 15% of their cap in 2021. That's totally right. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And that is the trouble is how do you make that work? Now, just looking into it at over the cap.com, you can restructure his contract and you can, uh, make it work financially a little better than it currently is structured. You can redo the deal. You can do whatever you want, but at the end of the day, he will be expensive. So the question they have to ask is, would you be having a more exciting Kirk, which is just an overpaid quarterback? And here's how I think the difference gets made. In 2017, the Vikings had a really expensive quarterback room with Sam Bradford and Teddy Bridgewater and Case Keenum. But the reason that the Vikings were a really expensive quarterback room with Sam Bradford and Teddy Bridgewater

and Case Keenum. But the reason that the Vikings were able to overcome having an expensive quarterback room is because so many of their players were on rookie contracts that were really important. Daniil Hunter, Stefan Diggs, Eric Hendricks. And this is kind of working that way for Detroit right now, where Jared Goff is fairly expensive. But they have a lot of their key players like Aiden Hutchinson on those rookie contracts and Amin Ra St. Brown. They're very cheap. So if you can have a lot of their players like Jordan Addison, like, let's say, Caleb Evans, Makai Blackman, at key positions that usually get paid, being fairly cheap.

Now, Derrissaw and O'Neal, they're going to cost a lot of money. There's no way around that. But if you can have it to be that way, that there's at least a handful of really good players, you can build a great team around someone who's expensive. It's not impossible to be able to do, but it is challenging. It certainly is challenging.

So, I don't know. On a day like today, where they haven't cut anyone yet and we're just, well, they've cut a few players, but not anyone that would surprise us yet. I thought interesting thing to talk about with just where everybody stands in their timelines. And then the Kyler Murray idea, it, it intrigues me. I'm not going to bang that drum to the end of the earth. We have a season to be played here. And this is also kind of the last hurrah of talking about everybody's timeline and everything else like

that. So as far as the final 53, that's going to be tomorrow afternoon. And the minute that that is announced, we will be live here. And if my voice holds up like it is done for the last, like, I would say, I'd say the first five minutes were tough. But we've gotten through that. And now we're rolling. And we're in good shape. And if it holds up through tomorrow, then we will be live the minute that the Vikings put out their 53. And we'll go through that.

So there were a couple other questions that people had emailed me that I wanted to get to. But if you guys want to throw some questions in the comments, if you're thinking about, I mean, maybe it's not even really the final cut down. I mean, there's really, this year is probably the least dramatic final cut down that I can remember. I can't even think of a surprise cut that there could be. I mean, maybe there will be one. Really, the question that I have is just, are they going to make a trade where they get somebody? Are they going to fill the running back room out a little bit more?

Is there a quarterback that they're looking for? I saw, what was it, Desmond King, who was released. And so, Larry, this is kind of my point, just to circle back on Kyler Murray. Kyler has no leadership traits, Larry says. I mean, one thing is I don't really know that because I haven't covered it. So that's hard for me to say definitively. That is the perception of Kyler Murray. And I think that who would know this would be Kevin O'Connell because they competed against Kyler Murray a number of times,

and he also knows Cliff Kingsbury. So if that's the case, then they wouldn't consider it. He would know that. They would know inside the game. Is it really bad? Or was it maybe just more perception? Or whatever it might be. So that's something that they would really have to consider.

I totally agree with you. Because that is his MO at this moment. Is that he is not a leader. But that's why I made the point about O'Connell and that connection between the coach and the quarterback and how important that can be and how someone who doesn't seem like a leader, if they are working with the right leader, can surprisingly take on a lot of those traits. And I thought Kirk Cousins has done that. The amount that this team now is bought into Kirk Cousins, especially considering that he's on a one-year contract, is totally different than it was in 2021 when Mike Zimmer was setting the tone. So I guess I think that, yeah, no, that's right.

I remember Patrick Peterson saying something about his lack of leadership traits. And that's true. That's just my question. Does Kevin O'Connell think that there's something he can do to empower Kyler Murray, as opposed to whatever it was that Cliff Kingsbury did? Maybe that's trying to talk yourself into it a little too much. I don't know. But I mean, I have to ask the same thing as you, Leonard, which is how can you be a leader under Cliff Kingsbury? It was probably one of the worst botched jobs coaching wise of the last how many years? I mean, they started out hot every year, fell apart because Cliff Kingsbury just never made adjustments and his relationship with the quarterback didn't seem to be very good. I mean, it's just not a good situation. So is there something there? But that doesn't mean that it's going to be easy.

I mean, to make that decision, if that comes up, I think that's a very hard decision because there are pitfalls. There is not a perfect Caleb Williams scenario. And this is what ties back into tanking. But, you know, you could say, look at Kyler Murray and look at that team. They tanked and they had the wrong guy at coach and they didn't manage their money very well that they had. They made that deal for Deandre Hopkins. They had one year where they had a chance and it didn't go anywhere. So, um, you know, Larry, you're right. Kirk didn't have to be publicly

shamed into preparing, but he did get publicly shamed. I would say a number of times for different things by Mike Zimmer. So, you know, I, I mean, I think that, um, if we had this discussion after 2021, it would be a very, very different, um, that's funny. That's funny, Peter, uh, rocking the Brooks brothers polisher. Yeah, this is a nice one. I got this as a present. It's a, but the podcasting business is going well, except for when you lose your voice. That's when it makes it a little tougher. Uh, let's see. Is Jalen Rager still a Viking tomorrow? Geez, this could be a cold take by like hours from now. And I wouldn't be surprised considering what the Viking or

well, not the Vikings, but what Trey Lance did to me the other day, as soon as I wrapped up the show and then he got traded. So Rager could get traded at nine o'clock tonight when we wrap up the show for today. But I think that Jalen Rager won't be, and that he was playing more or less just as a, hey, have one last look at Jalen Rager. But I guess that really depends on Jalen Naylor's health. If Jalen Naylor is ready to go or really close to where he could be ready to go week one, I know he missed all of training camp, but he's not going to have to really play in week one, presumably, that they wouldn't need him unless somebody got banged up. And they also have Brandon Powell mixed in there as well.

So I think that they will move on from Jalen Rager. They will try everything they possibly can to make a trade for him, try to get a sixth rounder back, and have somebody else take the $2.4 million in cap space. It would be really good if they could trade him away, get the cap space, have Brandon Powell take his role. It's just, is anybody going to do that? I mean, the Vikings traded for him, didn't really work out. He wasn't really a very good punt returner, to be honest.

Last year, I think he was better the previous year with the Eagles by the numbers. And then Brandon Powell came in and took his job, or at least it looks that way. If Jalen Naylor isn't anywhere close and he was doing walkthrough stuff, but he wasn't doing full participation, then they might just have to keep him. So I'm hedging here to your question. I guess I'm going to lean toward that. I mean, even if like, would you trade a conditional seventh and Rager to somebody? Like, if he makes the, if he, I don't know, if he has so many punt returns or whatever, you send a sixth or whatever just to get the cap space because they could use kind of every dollar that they have. I don't know.

I'm not really sure. I think it really depends on Jalen Naylor and his situation. But if he's going to be ready to go, then they are probably done with Jalen Rager. And that trade didn't work out. And I know that I got a few notes about like, oh, Kweisi, you know, that trade didn't work out. If they have this philosophy of trying to acquire players who are busts for other teams, most won't work out. What you're looking for is the one that does. And the question is going to be, is the juice worth the squeeze? And the answer might be no. It might never work out. But if it does once and you find somebody that was let go by another team, I mean, that could be a huge

fine for them. But most of the time, you're Ross Blacklocks and Jalen Ragers. The other team gave you that player for a reason. Kurt asks, just read the Vikings are working on extending JJ before the season. Rumors. Do you think that this will happen? I'd love it. And as it would give us some insight into the cap space for next year. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that they've wanted this all along, but from their perspective and from Justin Jefferson's perspective, both sides can take their time to work their way through it.

That's an important part of this as we were kind of day after day going, no extension, no extension, what's going on, what's going on? And the same thing goes for Hawkinson as well, is that you still have time. And if we get past the start of the season, then it might have to be waiting until next year for TJ Hawkinson, potentially franchise tagging him, potentially letting him go. I just did an article. You can check this out at purpleinsider.com about Josh Oliver, where I got together josh and he talked about his development curve over the years i've been very impressed with josh oliver i think that they should extend hawkinson but if the price ends up being too high and so forth then maybe that's an option or if oliver has a great year and they're really impressed and they think he could be tight end number one

i mean once upon a time the, the Vikings spent a fourth round pick for Chris Herndon and then Tyler Conklin turned into a good player. I don't know. Sometimes this happens and that changes your viewpoint on everything. So maybe that could be the case. But to your question, I don't know if it's going to happen. And the reason I don't know is because Jefferson can ask for the moon. He can ask for everything that he wants to get. And he's got a long time to keep asking. And somebody asked me the other day, and I saved this question because I thought it was a really good one. Trevor sent me a note. Could Justin Jefferson be waiting to sign his contract until Nick Bosa signs his?

Because Nick Bosa's in this position as well. And he's taken it all the way through the fifth-year option. I mean, that could very much happen, that Justin Jefferson, if he doesn't love what he sees, that he could decide that he's going to take it all the way through next take it all the way through next year and all the way into training camp and then get everything that,

that he wants. And, and the Vikings would rather sign him right now. Najee is on the 53. I think, I mean, Najee Thompson, a little concerned about the concussion that he suffered in the second

preseason game. A little worried about the concussion that he suffered in the second preseason game. A little worried about that because, I mean, if he ends up starting on, what is it, pup? Then, you know, I mean, that's not great for him as a fringe guy who did everything he could to try to make the team as a special teamer. Sorry, I got distracted from the Justin Jefferson point. I just think that with that, they should do everything that they can, everything that they can to get him signed right now because the price is never going to be better

than it is right now. And even if Jefferson is asking for everything on his side, then you almost have to give it to him because he's never going to stop asking for everything on his side, then you almost have to give it to him because he's never going to stop asking for everything. It's not like that price is going down. That price is only going up. And T. Kubler, I thought he didn't care about the money. I mean, you hire people in the NFL to represent you and to negotiate your contracts, your agents, and they're going to get for you the best market price that they can get versus what you're worth, what you bring to the team. And when my former intern, who's now working analytics with the Detroit Lions, Haley English,

when she did an analysis of Justin Jefferson and how much he's worth, she found that he's basically worth an average quarterback, which there are almost no position players that are worth as much as an average quarterback in terms of like wins above replacement. So think about an average quarterback. You expect to win like eight, nine games with an average quarterback and an okay team. And if you take that quarterback off and you put in some guy from the XFL, you'd win three on the same roster. Well, I don't know if Jefferson is worth five wins, but maybe last year he was, but he's worth, he's worth a lot. He's worth that same sort of jump. If you take Jefferson off the team, they're not a good team. They're bad. And they're bad last year. How many of those

wins do they have without Justin Jefferson? He's super valuable to this team. They want him here. And if other players at his position that do the same job are getting a certain amount, and there's a salary cap, and there's a structure, and there's a CBA for all these things, then his side should negotiate for exactly that, for what he's worth. Sports is just not like real life. It's just a whole different bubble and universe that there's only a handful of people in the entire world that live in this universe, and we all watch them,

and we all study them. But you can't really make comparisons and and with jefferson i mean he should be doing exactly what he's doing which is trying to get the best deal he can every player should do that uh you won't ever hear me criticize a player for trying to get the best contract he can get um muse or month or both good. I liked what I saw from Nick Muse this offseason, but I think they really trust Johnny Munt if one of the guys should get hurt, the starters, and if they're going to try to play two tight end personnel, then they probably want Johnny Munt. I also think that you could probably get Muse onto the practice squad again.

If someone takes him away from you, okay, I guess that happens. I don't know that he's a budding superstar that you're going to be devastated at losing. But if they kept four tight ends, I don't think that's insane. I mean, if they're going to play more two tight ends, then they could decide to keep Nick Muse and Johnny Munt at the same time. I just think it's probably going to be Munt, Muse gets cut, and then he gets re-signed to the practice squad. And you feel really good about your entire tight end room. It's got to be the best tight end room as a whole in the entire NFL.

Trade Hawkinson, we can't extend everybody. Well, they don't have to trade Hawkinson right now. They could make that decision next year. That's something that they could do is rather than franchise tag him, they could trade him away. Or if he's going to sit out training camp, they could search for a trade. Um, just kind of like Jonathan Taylor has been doing this year. They could do that, but I mean, you're trying to win. And so getting rid of a really key player would be not a good idea. Uh, at this moment, you're trying to have one of the best offenses in the league. And I think long-term you want to have that set up in the future for the quarterback that we're

talking about. You want to have TJ Hawkinson. Um, you're right though, about extending everybody. There's some guys that are non-negotiable Jefferson, Darisaw. Those are non-negotiable. I mean, if you don't sign them, you're a disaster. You're a disaster general manager. If you don't get those guys signed. I mean, that's just a fact. Those are mega star players, foundational franchise pieces like that has to happen. Hawkinson. I think we can live without it. We can live in a world where you're developing other tight ends and you're filling that position in and hoping someone becomes the next Hawkinson, I think we can live without it. We can live in a world where you're developing other tight ends and you're filling that position in and hoping someone becomes the next Hawkinson.

Or maybe it's Oliver, maybe it is Muse or somebody like that. You can work around that. You cannot work around not having someone like Justin Jefferson. So, yeah, I mean, maybe they do get to a point next year where he's not moving on the price and someone comes in with a second round pick and they decide that they're going to do that. They should have a good idea of that going into the offseason. But my guess would be that they franchise tag him or that an extension gets done fairly soon. It's just got to have flexibility for the future.

Any chance that JJ and Kirk take a discount to stay together? I think we've just gone past that potential of that happening. Because Kirk cousins has made it clear that he's digging his heels in from the reporting that was out there. Our friend, Andrew Kramer, I believe reported some of this from the star Tribune that the, really the,

the difference of cousins and the Vikings Tribune that really the difference of Cousins and the Vikings was on the years that Cousins wanted more of a commitment years wise. And it wasn't even really the dollar figure that was the big deal. It was more of the years. And so Cousins has dug his heels in. I suppose after this year, if they win the Super Bowl, then you'll get an extension for Kirk for life. But if they go 10 and seven and lose in the first round of the playoffs, then I think everyone's going to say, okay, well, let's all, let's all move on. And Cousins is going to look for his final contract and the Vikings are going to look for their next quarterback. And from Jefferson's standpoint, this is, I mean, this is a big opportunity. You are coming off of one of the great starts to a career

in NFL history, and now it's time to get a contract. He can work it out with flexibility. That's a key part of this. He can work it out so they can move money around, so they can lower his cap hit, so it's lower in certain years. When you look at A.J. Brown's contract, it's not expensive until, I think, next year. So the first two years with Philadelphia is inexpensive. You can do stuff like that, and he could work with them in order to do that. In fact, I almost guarantee he will. But as far as taking way less to stay with Kirk Cousins, I can't see that. Luisina's trade bait, very much doubt that. can't see that. Louis seen as trade bait, very much doubt that, um,

can't see it. Maybe I, I, I don't think so. I think they've got to ride that out. Are there too many examples of trading first round picks that haven't worked at all for anything because you're getting nothing, right? You're getting nothing on the dollar. I mean, if I'm another team and I liked Louis seen coming out of the draft, what am I offering? Sixth round pick fifth round pick. And if you're the Vikings, why don't you just kind of go through that? Jeffrey, this makes me feel good. You sound better, better than you think you do. Also high ankle sprain should be renamed damn near broken leg injury. Yeah. My understanding is

those high ankle sprains are horrible. So that's why the Vikings don't play any of their starters. And I'm glad that you're saying I sound better because at the very beginning, after about seven minutes, I thought, Oh thought oh this is this could be bad this i i may have just disappointed everybody who logged in to to talk football tonight because um it was going to fall apart but thanks to our friends at uh gatorade here x no side x says tj's blocking is suspect not worth top tight end money yeah i, I think that the thing about TJ Hawkinson is we can all look objectively at maybe the facts around him and paint a picture of somebody who is a very good player

and who has great chemistry with Kirk Cousins and who maybe was a broken tackle or two away from having a better yards per attempt last year. That's what happened in Detroit. He had the same average depth of target. He just broke a couple of tackles, had a couple of plays that went, you know, yards after catch that didn't happen because a lot of his role was sitting down in zones. It's really important for a tight end to be highly football intelligent, to understand where he's got to be and where the quarterback's going to be looking for him on every play, and to be able to play multiple positions, which Hawkinson is excellent at, slot receiver,

outside receiver. This stuff is not easy. And so on paper, not the best blocker is true. Not a downfield threat is true. But I also think that there's value in like real world applications to TJ Hawkinson, which is it's third and six and you need seven yards and he's there because the other team is doubling Justin Jefferson. And that's valuable. Is that as valuable as George Kittle? No, it's not. It's not as valuable as Rob Gronkowski in his prime. Rob Gronkowski was an elite blocker. George Kittle's an elite blocker. Travis Kelsey, you talk about chemistry with Mahomes, but he also averages 14 yards a catch for a tight end. Darren Waller, at his best, is putting up 1,100, 1,200 yards.

That's how he got that big contract. He hasn't been healthy the last couple years, but that's how he got it. And those aren't things that you're going to see from TJ Hawkinson, and I think that that's where exists the gap between those two sides is you have on one side, Hawkinson wants to get paid like Darren Waller and the elite tight ends based on his usage last year. And I understand that. And the Vikings are painting a profile and agreeing with you and saying,

he's not the best blocker. We probably shouldn't pay him the most money. He should be closer to Evan Ingram than he is to Darren Waller's top of the market contract. And if they can't come to an agreement, then there will have to be some sort of resolution in the form of a franchise tag or whatever else. For at least this year,

though, you still have one of the better tight ends in the league, one of the best offensive setups in the league. So at least there's that. And I think that at the end of the day, the trade will still, even if he doesn't sign an extension, end up being the right trade to make because you got at least two years if they tag him potentially three out of a really, really excellent player who helped your offense a lot and gave them a better chance to win a playoff game. I mean, I know Hawkinson caught the fourth and a check down. Look at the rest of that game

from TJ Hawkinson. If he's not there, they lose by what? Two touchdowns in that game because they did take away Justin Jefferson. So, you know, I think that there's, there's some importance there. Leonard says, Ivan Pace Jr. made it too easy. Who's your Mr. Mankato runner-up? That's a great question. Mr. Mankato runner-up. We got some nominations. I'm trying to think who it would be. Third round pick is a little bit hard. Is Makai Blackman taking a starting job?

Does he deserve that? Or is third round pick a little bit too high for that? I mean, there have been some other guys that have had their moments, like Theo Jackson has had some moments. Maybe he makes the team. I guess Najee Thompson would be the guy we only really saw two or three special teams plays, but to have somebody come from absolutely nowhere, then, uh, become somebody who we're talking about for the roster is really good. If you were ranking all 90 players and their chances to make the roster, where would you put Najee Thompson? Probably closer to 90 than you would 53.

So if he makes the roster then, or even a practice squad spot, then I would say he deserves to be the runner-up for Mr. Mankato. Some of these guys, like this is why Mr. Mankato is what it is. Some of these guys are great stories. Jordan says, does the national media media report about Jefferson being close to an extension mean he's actually about to get traded? Yeah, I will say

that since Kwesi Daffo-Menson and Kevin O'Connell took over, the accuracy of national reports regarding the Vikings has not been high. So there is that, there is that, uh, I won't run through them cause I'm not, I'm not trying to like call people out. They're doing the best they can to report obviously. But when you report that somebody is like about to get traded and then they sign an extension the next day, it's like, well, that's, that's not something I guess we should really lean too much in. And that's what I was saying the other day about the Hawkinson thing. It's like, to me, that's out there for a reason to put a little more pressure on TJ Hawkinson about how he wants to reset the market to just put a little pressure on him. Like, Oh, it looks like you're asking for too much and everything,

you know, right. Sorry. I'm laughing at this from horse feathers. Let's put it out there to Gatorade that they saved collars podcast today. They did. They did. What do I got here? I got cool blue, cool blue. Thank you. Cause, uh, you're delicious. And I had absolutely no voice to start this thing. And, um, it got me through after a couple of, a couple of sips. So I agree, but yeah, I mean, I think that what the report was regarding Jefferson was pretty much what we already know anyway. I mean, they have made no bones about this and they can't. They really can't. They can't just say, oh, yeah, I don't know. We're going to play hardball with JJ. What? You'd look ridiculous. You have to say, yes, we're going to do everything we can to sign him because I mean, even the owner is saying like, this is a priority. Like I'm going to be involved. This is happening in any way we can. So it really comes down to, can they agree on the details before the start of the season? And if not, then it becomes a little more nerve wracking. But what you have to remember is the power is still very much in

the Vikings hands, even if this goes through this year, because I mean, the Nick Bosa situation is a great example. It's the team has overall the control. They have the fifth year option. They have the franchise tag. And Lamar Jackson also made it clear that they have each other as well. So when it comes to keeping a market down, I'm sure that there's some pressure that if the receiver market starts going completely crazy, that owners are going to be unhappy with each other. So there's other things that are at play here and not just Justin Jefferson dollar figure sign extension. If I had to guess, I think they're going to put on full court press, do everything they can to get it done in the next couple of weeks. And if it doesn't happen,

then we talk about it next year. From Larry Wanham, Jones, Valaine. Valaine's the hard one. Wanham and Jones will be on the team for sure. But Valaine is the hard one. Every time the guy plays, he gets pressures and sacks and he just looks good in practice. I think he's a decent enough player. But how many of those outside linebackers do you want to keep on your active roster? How good is he at special teams? I remember that was a little bit of a struggle for him last year at times that he was put in a couple of roles that he wasn't very good at handling.

There was some mistakes there. I think maybe on a punt block against Indianapolis that he was asked to do that and that could be tough. That could be a tough call for them because special teams make so much of a difference for the guys down the roster and it's possible that they look at someone like Benton Whitley as being a better special teamer. I don't know that that's the case. We don't really get a good look at special teams in practice. I mean, you just can't really replicate what those are like to do, a kickoff, a hardcore punt return. So I don't know who they like and who they don't like for special teams. That would probably make the difference.

But I like Luigi Villain on the 53 if it's possible to keep him. And they did last year because all he did was just prove that every time he gets in the game he makes plays um Delton said I thought Kirk's uh Kirk's guy okay that's funny wants him to take a short-term contract um yeah I think after last year so the thing here's where I understand Kirk Cousins' perspective. So you get a new an all-time great year. And then they tell him, no, we only want to give you a couple of years and not like a long-term extension. I think from his standpoint, and remember this man has one of the great agents, I think in NFL history, right? This guy knows what he's doing. So I think from Kirk's perspective, he's like,

it's time to bleep or get off the pot, right? Like it's time to decide Kirk's your guy or Kirk's not your guy because there's nothing else Kirk can do to prove himself to you. And I agree with that, right? It's like there's nothing else that we need to learn about who Kirk is or how he would react without Mike Zimmer as his coach or in a different system that leaned into him or anything else. Like we now know everything. And I think from his perspective, it's like, you now know everything. And I did the thing you said I couldn't do, which is win. And I know not in the playoffs, fourth and eight, everything I know, but I'm putting myself in his

shoes. And when you compare him statistically, here's what he's worth. It's a lot. Look what Daniel Jones got was worth more than Daniel lot. Look what Daniel Jones got. He's worth more than Daniel Jones. Look what Derek Carr got. Probably the same. But when you compare them statistically last year, probably more. And so he's saying, either make me a Viking for life or move on, if that's what you guys want to do.

So I've always understood Kirk's perspective on this. I don't think it's about, you know, I think his short-term contracts throughout his career was very clever, very clever decision to go with short-term contracts because then you're just hitting the lottery over and over again with extensions. And, you know, he knows that he's going to be healthy. He knows that he's going to be a good quarterback. He's always going to have a job once you're a baseline of quarterbacking, that you're always going to have a job.

So it's very clever for him to do what he did. But also, part of the short-term contracts is maybe a mechanism a little bit, too, because him saying that he likes that, because teams have never wanted to fully buy into him long-term anyway. It's always been, why don't you remain our quarterback so we can compete next year until we consider other options? And then there's like the Kellen Mond half measure and that kind of thing. So Mark says, see how our passing game is.

Then if it's great, I wouldn't mind trading a TJ Hawkinson. Well, you know, I think that if the passing game is great, it's going to involve TJ Hawkinson. So that's going to be part of it, is if the passing game is great and TJ Haw. Yeah. I mean, Mekhi Blackman only, let's see, I think he, did he only play in the Seattle game? Did he play in the other one? No, he got hurt against Tennessee in practice. So yeah. I mean, he, he didn't get multiple preseason games, which would kind of hold you back from like making a play or two that helps you for Mr. Mankato. So there's always that element. Like somebody usually in preseason games is to make a big play. That's why I brought up Najee Thompson. And I'm not sure if a third rounder quite deserves the Mr. Mankato. It's like, is that guy enough of an underdog? I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

Let's see. Brinaldi says, what a garbage mindset to intentionally tank. So the thing about tanking is that the word just has this reaction to some people. And clearly, like, that's what's happening there. But with Arizona, for example, the question would be like, what were they supposed to do? Their quarterback has an ACL injury. Their team has fallen apart. Their general manager was a joke. Their coach was a joke. Their franchise is in peril. I mean, they really have no other option than to try to just rebuild it from the ground up. And if they tried to like trade for Jameis Winston to win six or seven games. Like, how does that, what does that do? How does that help you? And that the Vikings are so interesting with this because they had

one chance and that was really last year. Well, no, let me say it two chances, 2020. And then last year, 2020 and last year year were their two chances where they could have, it doesn't have to be tank, remember, it doesn't have to be tank. It has to be a true commitment to the future, which means not extending Kirk, which means getting the salary cap right, not trading for Yanni Ngakwe, not trading for Corey Vedvik, the kicker punter, not trading for Chris Hurt, right? Not signing Michael Pierce, not making these desperate moves, bringing back Sheldon Richardson, Bashad Breeland, who recently got arrested with lots of guns. That's the point. It doesn't have to be tanking.

It has to be being honest with yourself. If we called it being honest with yourself and not tanking, I think people would have a different reaction to it that's what it should be called should be called being honest with yourself and if they went into last year and i'm not saying that they were wrong because they won 13 games they were right they put themselves in a position to go into the playoffs with a chance to go deep in the playoffs that's true they won the division it turned out that that was i think overall a good decision for them because they had that shot. And if they finish the drive against the Giants,

who knows how we view that season. But I'm sorry. Sometimes you guys just get me. I'm sorry. I'm like on this way to a point. And then I see Jordan says, is fruit punch or lime cucumber the worst Gatorade flavor? Yeah. Well, I can tell you Cool Blue is good, but cucumber Gatorade does not sound like something that's good.

Anyway, I'm sorry. Don't make me laugh. I feel like that's the worst thing for my voice is trying to laugh, but that was really funny. So anyway, the point just being that in 2022, when Kwesi and Kevin O'Connell took over, there were opportunities to trade Kirk Cousins, bring in a veteran quarterback to fill the spot and be Carolina, and then be in a position to trade up to get the quarterback from this year's class, which turned out to have three top five prospects. That's the decision we'll be looking at. That's not tanking so much as it

would have been saying, you know what? We shouldn't get Zedaria Smith. Let's find out what we have and let's put ourselves in a position to get that future quarterback because that's the way we'll compete for a Super Bowl. That's how I look at it as far as the tanking discussion because I see why people would be upset by like, wait, you're losing on purpose. That's ugly. And it is ugly. And, you know, it's it's going to be really ugly in Arizona. Mark says the only group I truly care about is the offensive line. Everything else should hold up. OK. Yeah, that's a that's a thing that, you know, if we're playing a game of and maybe we'll do this with some different guests this week i'm trying to figure out what the strategy is also there's going to be and my my voice is not

going to get any better anytime soon because uh later in the week launching something new and exciting on the channel which is i think going to be really good we're going to continue to go live here every night um around this time and a of nights a week is going to be hot routes, but it's going to be kind of the relaunch of hot routes. It should be really fun. Manny Hill's going to be involved if you guys know Manny. So I'm really excited about that. And after this, I need to not speak to anyone because I need to rest the voice or, or drink like way more cool. Maybe, maybe cucumber Gatorade was the only answer to my voice. But anyway, I forget where we're going with that, but I'll just move on.

From Delton, how many targets do you think Addison will get this year, as many as Osborne? I think it could be very close. If I had to guess, early in the season, I would suspect that Osborne gets ahead of him in targets. So maybe it's like Osborne through the first half of the season has 40 and Addison is 25. And as the season goes along, assuming he stays healthy, Addison starts to close that gap. And by the end of the season, I think it'll be very close. They're both talented players. I mean, I've brought it up a few times on the show, but if you were going with a different mindset, instead of just who's the most intriguing guy. So Jordan Addison is the most intriguing guy in training camp. If you were

looking at who just performed, it stood out. Well, of course, Jefferson is just destroying people, but Osborne had one of the best camps of anybody on the team. I mean, when they were doing two-minute drill the other day against the Titans, it was really intense. Kirk Cousins is finding KJ Osborne left and right. I think that he has really stepped up to that challenge of them drafting Addison. And I think he's going to have a very good year. And it really comes down to the health of Addison because it's not easy to stay healthy for 17 games as a rookie.

That's very tough. So right now I would still stay with KJ Osborne, but the way that Addison is played, I wouldn't be surprised if it's fairly close. All right, a few more questions, and then I am totally out of vocal cords. From Hunter, how has Pat Jones been? Seems like people are calling him a lock for the roster,

but haven't heard anything about him standing out. What I haven't seen, and it can be hard to tell, I haven't seen some big jump forward from Patrick Jones in training camp to the point where I'd be saying, guys, he's taken number one reps, look out, it's happening. But he's been a consistent backup piece. But DJ Wanham is clearly ahead of him. So I don't think that he has done something to say, Brian Flores, you got your future edge rusher. But also the fact that he wasn't playing in the last two preseason games seems pretty solidified that he's all set with his roster spot

and they feel pretty good about him. He was a guy that I was really interested in. And look, I mean, he might develop over the year and get some opportunity. But I mean, you are talking about a third round pick who essentially hasn't played yet. It doesn't look like he's going to play anytime really soon. He flashed a little bit last year, just a little bit enough to make me interested.

And we'll see if there's anything else there, if somebody gets banged up or whatever, but it looks like it's going to be a lot more DJ one. I'm in those rotational packages than it is Patrick Jones. What about Bob says, what's your take on the dynamic between KOC and Kweisi? Do you see, do you sense a future schism? There's always a schism someday between a coach and a GM, right? I mean, they're making cutdowns. There will be decisions that get made between those two.

And no one has ever said who makes the final call, but you know, I don't know who it is. Maybe it's just Mark Wilf with everything. I'm not sure. Maybe Wilf decided that after what happened with Zimmer and Spielman that he was going to be way more involved and it kind of feels that way. But I think that it's just the nature of the game that it's very hard to remain in lockstep because, I mean, imagine if you saw in the draft room, Kevin O'Connell looked like he was about to throw a punch if they traded down instead of taking Jordan Addison. I mean, these things, the more, the more you win, the more the pressure goes up. And if they don't win this year, if they lose, I mean, if they end up missing the playoffs, the pressure goes up even more.

And when you're rebuilding something, you're probably going to have to ask some questions about did they get enough depth at certain areas? I mean, you remember Mike Zimmer, he really told us how the NFL worked. This is one thing I appreciate about Mike Zimmer. He would just come out and say, we don't have any depth at these positions. And then like, I don't know, wink at Rick Spielman. Thanks, Rick. Thanks for your drafting. We don't have any depth at these positions.

And so tension builds and it happens in every building. And there's so much pressure in the NFL. Will there someday be a schism? Maybe. I mean, if Kweisi Adafo-Mensah doesn't like the analytics on a quarterback and Kevin O'Connell's football sense is like him, who's getting the final call to draft that quarterback or trade up? I mean, I don't know. These things happen. And, you know, if it works, then there won't be these problems.

But it's not easy. It's not easy to be in those positions when you're trying to stay like as one. You know, a lot of times, you know, the coach, the general manager, a lot of times they're different types of people. And you have a former player and you have someone with an analytics background. You know, it's an interesting dynamic to keep your eyes on the future. Okay. All right. I may have run out of energy here with the voice, but I appreciate all the questions. Let me see if I can throw in one more. Possibly. Addison is all bone and nerve. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's going to be interesting. It really comes down to, I mean, luck is number one and also just, can you protect yourself? I'm very impressed with receivers who protect themselves despite, you know, I'm sure people wanting them to ram their heads into the pile and so forth after they catch the ball. But a lot of times you have to catch it and just go

down. Being honest, KJ is okay. Nothing special. Addison will surpass him. Yeah. My point about KJ Osborne is there might be something else there with opportunity. That's what we saw during training camp, is that with more opportunity, he made a lot of plays. That's how I'm telling you that it was going down, is KJ Osborne was there. He was making a lot of plays, downfield, underneath, whatever. And we'll see kind of how that turns out everybody is um planets rotating around the sun in this offense the sun is justin jefferson and whoever

kind of comes into the light gets the ball that weekend and who gets more targets it only matters if you just get more first downs more progress and so the more weapons you can have is good. Tristan says, I'll never agree with trying to lose. Call it being honest or whatever you want. It's not so much trying to lose as it is, well, okay, what Arizona's doing is trying to lose. I'll agree with you there. But if they tried to win, that would just be worse for them because there's no path to winning.

There's no route. Like who would they, who would just be worse for them because there's no path to winning. There's no route. Who would you sign? Who would you trade for? Who would you get that would help you get to the playoffs this year if you're Arizona? I mean, that's just not possible. So instead of making silly decisions to try to squeeze out one last win, you're just thinking for down the road. And the Vikings have refused to do that. And this year was the first year that they really did that at a lot of different positions. So that's where I think that an MJ flu game type performance that thank

you. Thank you, Hunter. That's I appreciate that. I just the what the Vikings did this year is they did not try to squeeze out every single victory by screwing themselves down the road by overpaying Delvin Tomlinson, restructuring Adam Thielen, keeping Delvin Cook. They could have done these things, but that wouldn't have been a good idea like that. And so like, you have to, you have to live in reality. You have to be honest with yourself. You have to make moves that make sense for where you stand. So that's how I look at it. I mean, I think that we're just going to look back at a couple of years and decisions as the NFC develops itself and drafts quarterbacks and builds rosters and everything else over these next couple of years. And I'm going to keep an eye on these teams who decided for more of a full reset than the Vikings did

and how that works out in terms of roster strength. But they already have some of the key parts that a team like Arizona does not have. Salary cap management isn't tanking. I mean, a lot of it, it kind of is. A lot of it is because the way that you're going to squeeze out those final victories is by making bad decisions on the salary cap. Here's my evidence, Minnesota Vikings. I mean, 2018 to 2022, they consistently made bad salary cap management decisions to eke out every possible win. And so like being smarter about the cap, but also sacrificing potential overall talent of your team is part of this. And also the Chicago Bears are great evidence that if you take it all apart and go to the bottom, that you really benefit.

I mean, that's the game. That's the game. It's not. I think a lot of people take it personally. Like I could never show up to a race and just fall down on purpose. But there's two games that get played in the NFL. There's the game on the field that plays every Sunday that we're going to start soon. And I can't wait to talk about it.

And there's the front office game that we've been playing since March. And in the front office game that all, all these things are, there are pieces, there are pieces on a chess board that you're moving. And sometimes in chess and chess fans will know you gambit upon, you give away upon to make further progress. Sometimes you give away some talent to make further progress. So that's how I look at it. And we'll see how that ends up playing out. Arizona ought to reduce ticket prices for the tank. Oh, I guarantee a lot fewer people are going to drive from Phoenix to Glendale for that place. And that's part of the thing. I respect what the Vikings ownership does. I want to make that clear. When we talk about this, I respect that they always want to win. I really do. Because if I own the team, I would have a really difficult time myself just being like, no, let's just lose. Because losing is horrible. It feels horrible. Go out there every Sunday and just have your team get its face beaten. it's not good, right? It's not good.

And it's miserable on every single person in the organization. 2021 was not a tank, but walk around that building that year, just a nightmare as they were coming short of expectations. And that's what it's like in an NFL building when you're failing. So I respect what they're trying to do. And I also think that when we're talking about percentage chances that it works, it's, it's not quite 50 cents or what, or what, what's the saying six or a half dozen. What's the saying 50 cents or a half dollar. Yeah. 50 cents or a half dollar. It's not quite the same. It's probably like 30% that it works if you tank and 25% it works that you don't. And you do it this way. Um, so now I know somebody knows chess. This is a great, good, great one. There you go. Sometimes you give away a pawn because you're around a thousand Elo and blundered. Well,

you know, I've seen 27 hundreds blunder as well. So it happens. It happens, Jordan. Don't worry about those pawns anyway. Um, so yes, Ken, you are exactly right. I have to imagine that you're exhausted all the off season and preseason talking points. Well, you know, I saw today that, um, and this is a, this is a great sign that I've been able to go this long. I didn't even realize how long we've been chatting here. This is a great sign that I've been able to go this long. I didn't even realize how long we've been chatting here. This is a great sign for The Voice for tomorrow. Because, just a reminder, as soon as the 53 comes out, we're going live.

So keep an eye on the channel. We're going to break that, like, 53 comes out, I'm going to look at it, and then I'm going to come downstairs here and do it live. So keep that in mind for tomorrow. I think it's 3 o'clock Central is when it's coming out, the 53, but they might do their cuts earlier. But we'll wait until the final cuts, and then sometimes it'll be moves happening, and you guys have to let me know if something is happening because I won't be looking at Twitter while I'm talking to you guys.

But we'll give a full breakdown. Anyway, where were we going with that? Oh, the off-season talking points. Yeah, it's funny. Okay, six of one half or six of one half a dozen. Oh, that's it. Yeah, okay, because six is a half. Right, okay, gotcha.

My cliches got mixed up a little bit. But anyway, from Chris, you deserve credit for this i'll throw you up on the screen chris a loyal listener chris called the ivan pace jr thing early early early on so good for you man you nailed that mr mancato and the guy was a baller in college i don't know i was talking to jeremiah searles who's coming back by the way on the show. And he was like, I don't get it just because he's small. I mean, they drafted like long snappers instead. I don't know. Dude was a baller. So, uh, but I saw on Twitter today, just a lot of people who are in my business fighting with fans or whatever about last minute stuff, video clips from preseason games and everything else. And I just thought this is

the fine, this is it. You know, everybody needs football. We need new information. We need new games. We need a lot to talk about. And I can't wait to talk about it with you. Can't wait for you guys to see the new relaunch of hot routes, which will be on this channel on YouTube. And if you're listening on the podcast feed, it's going to be on the Hot Routes podcast feed, which is its own thing. And it's spelled with a Z. So that's launching, going to have a local content creator,

Marcus Whitman, that franchise guy involved. Manny Hill's going to be involved. Jonathan Harrison is always. So we're launching that. We're doing more stuff. And so it'd be very exciting. So thanks everybody for showing up and

grinding through it with a little bit of the vocal issue hopefully another day of rest will help me out and by tomorrow afternoon we'll be good to go so thanks so much everybody for coming hanging out and especially those who started the evening uh with me like coughing and you know sucking down some gatorade to survive but it ended up working out pretty well. And thank you so much for all of the great questions and insightful commentary, as always. And we are almost there. Almost.

Cutdown day. Then it's all about the Buccaneers. Thanks so much, everybody. Football.