Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Justin Jefferson feels he's 'close' to clicking with JJ McCarthy (Part 1)

Episode Date: December 19, 2025

Matthew Coller talks about Justin Jefferson's latest comments about connecting with JJ McCarthy. Christian Darrisaw looks like he's going to miss another game. Emily Leiker of the Star Tribune joins to talk about evaluating the final 3 games and Snoop Dogg playing on Christmas. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar. Here, the show, as always, presented by Fandul tonight. Got a big show for you, Emily Liker of the Star Tribune in a half an hour and then Mani Hill to pick the final three of the games of the schedule. And we'll have a conversation as well. Well, there is some really good football going on tonight. manny and I will talk about expectations for these final three games and you know whatever else comes up that is on your guys minds and let me get you a fan dual question of the day

based on the sound I'm going to play you just a second which is this just the jefferson's over under for this game against the new york giants is 55.5 yards will they finally connect this week, Justin Jefferson and J.J. McCarthy and why as they play against the New York Giants. And what I want to hear from you guys is final three games of the season. What are your expectations? What do you need to see? What do you want to see most? Give me something really specific, not just, oh, well, you know, JJ McCarthy plays well. Like, what is it specifically from him? Give me one thing that you would like to see over these final. three games because I think at the very top of my list would be connect with Justin Jefferson

against the New York Giants shouldn't be this difficult. Their defensive line is pretty nasty, but aside from that, the Giants have a very poor defense. It's time. Make it happen. Make it work. So I think that'd be a good place to start. And as it pertains to that, what did Justin Jefferson have to say about he and J.J. McCarthy getting close to connecting. Well, I asked him that today at TCO Performance Center. Did you guys feel like you were close after watching back the game to connecting a lot of those throws? Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, it's like a step or two, you know, and then, of course, me dropping the touchdown, all of that, you know, just plays a part of that. So I got to do better, you know, everybody got to do better into, you know, doing what we need

to do in every single play that we have. And, you know, I always say, you know, I got to take the most of my opportunities and, you know, definitely didn't make the most of my opportunities these past couple, past couple weeks. So just kind of connecting with JA, staying after, I mean staying with JJ and then after practice having those reps getting the ball in and out of his hands and making sure that we're connected with the sports. spot of the throws where the ball need to be at and the different looks that we kind of have

throughout the game that the throws might be a little bit different in practice than they are in the game. So just kind of talking with him through that and making sure we're on the same page. Justin Jefferson there talking about practicing extra after trying to get it right for what it looks like in the real game versus just in practice, which players have continued to say that they are connecting in practice. It's just got to have. happen in the game and a lot of other stuff. T.J. Hawkinson said today that the world over the last two weeks has seen a lot of other stuff that J.J. McCarthy has been able to do in practice that I feel like we talked about week after week. Like, hey, they say it's working and yet we're not

seeing it come to fruition. And we kind of have over these last two weeks as McCarthy has gotten a little more in sync with the offense, a little more confident in the offense. T.J. Hawkinson talked about the throw down the seam that he made against the Dallas Cowboys, and that's a tough throw and a tough catch, but that's the type of play that they believe they're capable of making. And when we go back through the throws to Justin Jefferson in the Dallas game, you know, there's one down the sideline where Jefferson is clearly interfered with. There's one in the end zone that doesn't count. There's one in the end zone that's off his fingers. There's, you know, a number of plays, the crossing route that's off the tips of

his fingers. There's just, it does feel like it is very close and the opportunities have been there, yet they have not been able to figure out a way to just click the way that we normally would expect. And we'll take a look in a moment of, you know, some of the situation with the corners for the New York Giants. But it's not particularly compelling what they have done in their secondary this year. But the one thing that has come up pretty often is just how hard J.J. McCarthy throws the football. And T.J. Hawkinson did mention today that when you throw the ball that hard and he's not saying it as a criticism, he's just saying like a reality for wide receivers that you do need to get your head back a little faster. And you do need to, you know,

make sure that you can see the football as it's coming in. And you got to be ready for that thing cooking. So here's what Jefferson had to say about catching the football when it's coming at high velocity from J.J. McCarthy. You played with the quarterback that throws it as hard as JJ does? Jay J.J. is definitely one of the top, you know, top gunners that I played with. But, I mean, my brother always had a strong arm and he was able to really sling the ball to me at a very young age. So I was pretty used to just catching those velocity of a football. But I mean, it just goes back to, I mean, just like he kind of said, just having that rhythm and, you know, just only, you know, touching the ball two, three times and then, you know, getting that type of heater. It's a

little tough sometimes, but it's never an excuse for me. And that's always a ball that I need to catch. And I think we would all agree that the one in the end zone is one that he normally catches. And I think if he brings that in, it's much less of a conversation than it would have been otherwise still coming out of that game. So this seems like it's the week. And one of the things that I was a little surprised by is when looking at the Giants defense is some of the guys that they have in their secondary were actually free agents that we talked about a lot in the off season of, hey, you know, maybe the Vikings should look at this guy or that guy and ranking our free agents as we'll, you know, do again this year. But somebody that we talked about quite a bit was Paulson

Adibo who had played for the New Orleans Saints, kind of a playmaking cornerback. And this year, he has had by far his worst PFF grade of his career, which kind of shows you that, you know, defense scheme, pass rush, who you're playing with, who you're playing against. It all matters quite a bit. But last week, he had a 39.4 PFF grade, got absolutely smoked by Washington. and he's only got a 49.7 all season long is allowing 67% completion percentage into his throws. So he's at a very tough year. And Justin Jefferson, I think, has an opportunity there. Their other corner is Cordell Flot, who I was not familiar with your game very much.

He has played quite a bit for the Giants last couple years, but the Giants have been bad the last couple years. he's had a couple of moments so far this season, a third round pick in 2022. He's been one of their higher graded defensive players by PFF, but has eight pass breakups. That might be somebody who ends up matching up with Jefferson. But I don't think that either one of these corners offers all that much resistance against a wide receiver of his caliber.

And then the other player that surprised me that's not playing that well is Javon Holland, who has been really, really good and got a big paycheck from the Dolphins or in his time got a big paycheck from the Giants after his time with the Dolphins. He was somebody that just the other day, Brian Flores referenced as a guy who he gave control to of the defense. And Holland this year, 54.5 PFF grade has allowed, you know, not only 16 for 28 passing into his coverage, but a lot of big plays, almost 16 yards per reception. a handful of past breakups, just hasn't had a big year. The whole point is that if they could get the ball off, that this is the time. Like, there's not going to be another time.

Jefferson is tended to have some really good days against the Detroit Lions, but there's not going to be another time where it should be this right there for you for Jefferson and J.J. McCarthy. So this is a little bit of a test case of can you guys connect when you're playing one of the poorer defenses in the NFL with a very. underwhelming secondary and a team that has maybe possibly given up. So that's where we're at with Justin Jefferson. He feels like they're close.

It seems like the opportunity is right there for him. And I think if you're going with that Fanduil question of the day, is over under 55.5 hammering the over on this one because it almost feels like we've reached the end of a road of, all right, they're, you know, they're kind of getting it together. they're getting going and they're working with each other and they just need a little chemistry and just a couple more weeks and so, okay, well, now you've played together enough times where it doesn't matter that you didn't have training camp many, many months ago.

You've practiced together every day. You've strung together games where he's played, what would it be going back to the Lions game is this? Let's see, two and carry the one. So six out of the last seven. So now you're going to get seven out of the last eight. You've been on the field a lot together. Click, do it, make it happen.

I think this should be the week for those two to get on the same page. As far as the injury report goes, Christian Darrasaw not practicing today. Brian O'Neill and Ryan Kelly were limited. And with veterans like that at this time in the year, that means there's a pretty good chance that both of those guys play. That would be a big benefit for J.J. McCarthy because even though Dexter Lawrence, has a half a sack this year, which blows my mind. Like, Dexter Lawrence's stats this year just seem, they did.

They seem fake. Like, how could he not have the type of production that he had last year when he had nine sacks or the year before when he had 65 quarterback pressures? His numbers this year are nowhere near that. But, you know, if you're playing backups across the line, I mean, he's a, for a quarterback that still does hold on to the football, he was very good. against Washington and getting rid of it, but did hold onto it a little longer for longer developing routes against Dallas and did a good job on those plays, but still, I mean,

you know, Dexter Lawrence, uh, if he's at 100% or he's trying to boost his statistics against the backup and not Ryan Kelly, he could have some issues there, even if he's having a down season. And then the, you know, the edge rushers, if Derisaw is not in, Burns has 13 sacks this year. so he could create pressure. Abdul Carter is coming off of one of his best games of his career. And coincidentally, Abdul Carter, and I know we've had this discussion with,

you know, Sacks and, you know, Dallas Turner or even Jonathan Grinard with pressures versus sacks. Abdul Carter actually leads their team in pressures, but only has a couple sacks, but he's starting to get it, I think,

now that he shows up to meetings at the right time and doesn't get suspended for, for quarters like he has been before. But this is a team with a lot of talent. And if they are having to play just at school, if they are having to play Blake Brandel at center or however it might work out, there could be some weaknesses here on the offensive line that last week, they were just not matching up with any sort of top players.

And this week they are at those edge positions. They were matching up on the interior last week and did a good job with it, Jackson. And of course, Kelly was huge last week. And Will Fries, who overall has done a really good job. And we'll get into this in these last two weeks, three weeks of just kind of spotlighting on certain players and like, hey, was this worth it? Or how did that guy do? But, you know, Will Fries was very good against the Giants and has a chance to end the year strong after I thought early on kind of battled through that injury and coming back. But he's going to be big in this match up as well because if they protect it all, then the field should be wide open and they

should definitely be able to run the football. The Giants have been terrible, terrible against the run. So your thoughts on, is it time, JJ, still connecting or starting to connect with Justin Jefferson for the first time? Or are you skeptical on that? And what other questions, comments, and thoughts do you have? Coming up at 7 o'clock is Emily Liker and then Manny is going to be on. It's 730, but what else is on your mind into these final three games with the Vikings, or I should even also throw out there as we really begin the offseason process because every year I write an article that is the future of the Vikings. I've done this going back since 2016. I've written every single year. The future of the Vikings, as soon as the season ends, I'll look at every

single position. The cap hits, the options, the draft, the free agency for every single position on the Vikings. And I feel like I can get going a little bit earlier this year. So I'm starting to shift my mindset into, all right, it's time to look at that future again a little bit earlier than we thought we were going to. So what's on your mind for these last three games along with finding a way for J.J. McCarthy and Justin Jefferson to connect. Let's start off with Williams, says Jefferson will be over 55 and a half yards on Sunday. What is your percentage that McCarthy will be the starting quarterback in 2026? Or will the Vikings go big game hunting after Joe Burrow?

Well, here's the absolute truth would be, okay, I shouldn't call it the absolute truth. My assumption is that they will check on Joe Burrow because every team that needs a quarterback, even if you got somebody you like, the New York Giants will check on Joe Burrow, even if they like Jackson Dart. There will be every team that doesn't have a quarterback totally locked in. And there might be some teams that have a quarterback locked in that are like, would you take a like a Stafford for golf type of deal? there's going to be a lot of phone calls to Cincinnati, even if Burrow has a big contract, even if Burrow has an injury history, he's just that good. And everybody knows you get him on a good team and a good franchise and you've got yourself a serious chance to win. And even if you have to rebuild parts of your roster, I mean, he's won more games than he's lost, even with the Bengals being inept and terrible over the last few seasons when he's been in there. So they will go after Joe Burrow if there's any possibility that they could actually bring

him in. As of this moment, that does not seem very likely. As sad and frustrated as Joe Burrow is, the interpretation that I think I would have and I saw Albert Breer was talking about this as well, that I think the right interpretation is I am the captain now, Joe Burrow. Basically, I am now running this team and we're going to do what I want us to do or, yeah, I'm going to be somewhere else because he does have a contract that eventually runs out and he could leverage retirement like Carson Palmer or he could leverage just sitting out until his contract runs out. So more or less, you get behind Mr. Burrow or you, you, you

are going to be watching and play for another team. And he's reached the point in his contract where he's not quite there yet where he could just say, all right, I'm letting this thing run out. I'm going to sit out whatever season, then come back. But he's close. He's not that far away. And the way that most of these contracts are set up, especially with all the void years that are kicked into the future, I mean, Joe Burrow can say, I'm not redoing that

contract. They're usually set up to have a moment where you redo the deal. And this goes for Justin Jefferson as well, by the way, this is when you can redo the deal. And when you reach that point, that's when the player actually gets some of the leverage back. So that would be my guess of how this goes, where Burrow kind of takes the reins of the franchise and they essentially have to do what he wants them to do, check certain boxes that he wants them to check, or else. That's how it feels. But we may have already reached critical mass with that. We may have already reached a point where he wants to go somewhere else and he's going to demand that. I just think that's, it's not quite on the horizon yet, but it feels like it's getting closer and, you know,

we'll see how this season ends. But that wasn't your question. Percentage chance that McCarthy ends the season or starts 2026 with the Vikings. I think is, I would go, uh, 70% because we don't know the results of the last three games. And as much as there seems to be a turning of the corner, which we talked about a lot throughout the year, like, is there going to be? And the last couple weeks, it looks like that with better performance. So if it keeps going in that direction, then there's not going to be a better option outside of Joe Burrow.

And it becomes a higher and higher percentage each week. Like right now I'd put it at 70 because I think that there has been enough progress to say, all right, this is your quarterback. Keep working with him. Keep going that direction. And if he does a lot of these things, okay, your sins are not forgiven for 2025, but they will be a lot more if everybody's on the same page for next year. You can continue on the direction you thought you were going to be on in 2025. that's if he plays well over these last three games. But it's also possible that it's a meltdown and then what do you do, right?

If you end up with an 11 game sample where he finishes the season, 40th out of 44 quarterbacks by PFF, quarterback rating EPA, whatever metric you want to use, you can't go into next year, sure, then you would have to have it totally up in the air with a quarterback competition with somebody else, which there would be some percentage, chance that he could lose.

So there's several different avenues this could go. There's all the way really excellent. There's all the way really struggling. And then there's somewhere in the middle, which is probably the toughest place to be. But if it's somewhere in the middle, you're still very likely going with J.J. McCarthy in 2026. I saw that it was floated out there a little bit by ESPN's Jeremy Fowler to do the Kyler-Murray thing.

That's something that maybe Manny and I will get into a little bit later. If they do something like that, then to me, that means they're just out. Like, if he plays okay in the last three games and then they start going after Kyler Murray, all right, then they just, they were really worried about what they saw for this season, how it went behind the scenes, and they feel like this is not happening. That's if they go after someone like Kyler Murray. If Marcus Marietta comes in here, well, I mean, that's really not a quarterback competition. and who's in between like is a you know a gino smith is that are they out or is that somebody to compete

with him is you know i don't think they can trade for tua i wouldn't want them to trade for twoa and that's the other part the options are just not good and that would increase the percentages that this option is still the best even if you don't love some of the stuff that you saw and this has happened through history where a quarterback comes in and it doesn't go very smoothly at the start and then there is a growth, there is a development. I mean, we are talking about someone who's still very young and it takes another step forward where even if the coaches or even if the fans or whoever didn't believe in that person, then they start to show that you should.

And we don't have enough of a sample size to say for sure where he lands on that spectrum. Hunter says at least part of the reason I've got some. skepticism about McCarthy. The offense is run through Jefferson and he's not hitting him. Then the offense probably isn't running right. That I completely agree with. Right. I mean, that's exactly right that the offense is designed and has been so effective in running through Justin Jefferson that if it's not clicking, if he's not getting 90 to 120 yards on a regular basis, then something is not being operated correctly. These plays, I mean, some of them, yeah, you're going and identifying,

Jordan Addison's got a shot here. Hawkinson's got a shot here. That's supposed to happen. The lack of plays is a real thing that they have not had that many plays this year because they haven't sustained drives, but also that's because they haven't connected with Justin Jefferson anywhere near as much as they should. So when all the routes are often designed to, hey, grab this safety and move him away from Justin Jefferson, create this space, get this timing route, and you can't execute that yet, then to me, you're not running any sort of version of the Minnesota Vikings offense. You're okay in the last two games and you survived in the last two games, but you can't go week to week like this. So that's a nice litmus test for the last three games. because it's very hard to believe, oh, it's all fixed.

It's all just perfectly fine unless it's working with Justin Jefferson. I think that's a really good point. Mr. Mayor says, I don't expect it, but need to see him get Jefferson to 1K. If we don't get him at least one 100-yard game, I'll be frustrated. Yeah, and Justin will too. He did say last week that a thousand yards is important to him. And, I mean, of course it is. But if you can't get him there, I mean, where is?

he at right now. That just seems impossible that you can't get him to a thousand yards this season considering his career, considering like how many targets you can pump his way. I mean, maybe that that week, that final week of the season is going to be all just throwing it up to Jefferson. 832. So that's 168 yards over the last three games. I mean, I'm not great on the fly, but that's about 60-something yards a game, right, to get him there. I mean, come on. That's not that hard. You can get the best receiver in the world 60 yards per game.

Let's see. Aidan says, I love Justin Jefferson, got his jersey, but I need him to catch the ball. Come on, you're a pro receiver. Yeah, I mean, it is harder than you think, but you're right, that some of the catches have been there and he has not been able to make them. But, you know, when we look at, when we look at Jefferson's career and in terms of a drop rate, I'm curious how much different it is than usual for his career. So he's got five drops so far this season. He had six last year. He had nine in 2021. He had seven in 2022. Is it, his drop rate is 7% this year. It was 5.3 last year. It's been as low as, well, that was 2023. So that was a shortened year. it's not that different his career drop rate is 5.4 and this year it's 7.0 I mean that's that's 1.5% difference. It's not been like he suddenly forgot how to catch a football. I think he's always had some drops when you throw it to him as much as they have. And that is a little bit higher. But it's not like it's a 20% drop rate in his career is five. This is only slightly higher. It's just that they've struggled so much to connect.

that every single drop feels devastating and it feels like there's so few opportunities to get him the football or accurate throws his way this year that ever again every drop just feels like the end of the world. So it's not not to excuse some of the drops. It's just to say that it's, it's not that different. You just didn't think about it when he was catching eight for 11 for 97 yards or something on a regular basis. You think about it a lot more when there's been so few chances. John says, would like them to continue to play 13 personnel. Jets needs to have a little patience. Next year will be better. Oh, I mean, he's had the patience of an angel, I think, this year when you consider all that he's gone through. I mean, I know what you're

not criticizing him or saying that he hasn't been patient, but oh, I mean, he's been as patient as you could possibly be. I think there's other wide receivers who probably would have had different reactions to this. I do agree with you, though, on the 13 personnel, 12 personnel, 21. I mean, putting in bigger bodies as something that I think they've done a great job with. And I had in my article today about his statistics, McCarthy's, when they use bigger personnel, have been at least solid. Now, some of that is third and 10.

You're not using three tight ends. So that always kind of boosts the numbers versus 11 personnel. But I think it's been very useful for the past protection, for simplifying, like, hey, there's only two guys out on this route. So, or on this concept, there's only two guys going out on routes. And then a checkdown, like, you know, it's not that hard to find. And that's how a lot of that big personnel stuff works is you get the extra protection, you get extra time, you run play action, you draw the defense in on run looks and then you send two guys out. and if it's not there, you scramble or check it down or toss it away. And that's a good way to do it.

But, you know, I can't question the man's patience. Forrest Jones says Jefferson is going to go for 1.30 on Sunday. Call me crazy. But I wouldn't trade J.J. McCarthy for anyone. He's a rare human and elite talent. He's going to win multiple Super Bowls. Okay, well, that's a wouldn't trade him for anyone is, you know, I mean, that's way over the top.

obviously, winning multiple Super Bowls is way over the top to say about someone on a franchise that hasn't even reached the Super Bowl since the 70s. I mean, it's nice to have optimism about what you've seen from McCarthy, but I think saying you wouldn't trade him for Joe Burrow is, I think you would. I think that if the, if that, if you were the GM and that was actually on the table, I think you actually probably would based on what you've seen and what Joe Burrow was able to do. It's not a slight of McCarthy to say that he isn't making progress or improving or that this can't really, really work. But there's a list of quarterbacks that you would just say yes to almost regardless of the price. Jefferson has to stay because it doesn't make sense otherwise,

but I think you would do that. Now, 130? Yeah, I mean, I think that's very possible. Looking at the Giants defense, I think that's very possible. Lenny answering the question of what you want to see in the last three games want to see McCarthy limit turnovers and sacks he's done a great job of that the last two weeks that's been the biggest thing he's been praised for from o'connell and i would i would as well because i had this math now i can't remember it but it was like one every six dropbacks he was either getting sacked or throwing a pick at one point and was like okay this does not work so he badly needed uh these last two weeks to be a better decision maker with the ball and he's been, he's been excellent.

Mr. Marr says, I honestly don't care if it's better for winning to go through the tight and heavy offense. I rather we prioritize pushing the ball to JJ. His career is on a historic path and this is a lost season. Yeah, I mean, whatever it takes, a lot of times if you're running the bigger personnel, that's opportunities still off play action for the number one wide receiver. There's a lot of teams that have done it that way. for whatever reason, Andre Johnson's Texans popped into my mind for that, where they used to run a lot of big personnel with fullbacks and tight ends and stuff.

And they would have him as their main priority target. And then the Vikings have done stuff like that with Jefferson and just it has not been able to click. Aidan says, I want to see Dallas Turner have a good game. I'd like to see him have three. I would like to, and I know sacks are goofy stab, but, you know, sacks matter. I would like to see Dallas Turner finish the season with seven and a half sacks. That would be big progress from last year. You'd like to see him consistently pressure the quarterback.

But even if he has, hey, some reps that don't really go anywhere, but some really explosive, exciting reps where he gets a sack like he did against Seattle or like he did against Green Bay. And it's consistent over these last three games. that's that's what you want to see from him like make make some difference making plays in that jonathan grenard position and walk out of this year going you know what like he really took a big step forward and these last three games will shape uh the way we view that discussion uh jay says what do you think about trading for burrow or murray well i mean burrow to me is just a obvious like

uh yeah i mean but kail murray is much more complicated because for me kail Murray was, when did he peak, 2021 is when he had his best season. I think the NFL has changed quite a bit since 2021 and he really hasn't had a season that excites you since then. Now, he's won some games and last year he's a 500-ish type of quarterback and he had some exciting moments, 82 PFF grade last year, 93.5 quarterback rating. You know, he still runs extremely well, despite the ACL, but is this somebody who can consistently be great week to week in this offense? Or is it a guy who can, what I've always thought of Murray is be very exciting one week and then shockingly bad the next week.

And that's, you know, that's okay if you're a really poor team and you need a quarterback to jumpstart you, all right, but is he the one that is going to make you a serious contender in the NFC North? I'm a little more skeptical of that. I mean, I know that, you know, they did what they did with Sam Darnold, and he elevated his game at a point where people thought that he was just a backup quarterback. But with his size, does Kyla Murray really fit what KOC wants to do? The only scenario where I would say yes is if they're just completely toast with McCarthy.

Like, let's say, let's just a scenario. So this isn't like, you know, anything factual. But let's just say that behind the scenes, they're just really concerned. And then they think like, I just don't, he just, he's not coachable. And again, this is a scenario. He's not coachable. We don't like what we see. Like the, the teammates don't like him as much as it's supposed to be.

Like, I don't know, right? And we don't think he can make any progress. Okay. At that point, you need an answer. And you need an answer for. 2026 fast, then roll the dice on Kyler Murray. He's probably the best option you're going to find. If it's not what I described, if teammates are behind him, if the coaches feel like they've

got something they can really work with, if they feel like progress is seriously being made at the end of this season, and they can pick up where it left off, work out in the off season as Justin Jefferson talked about, all those sorts of things. Well, then you're not considering Kyler Murray. Okay, I got to make a radio appearance on WCCO radio, which is why my phone is ringing. But I had a chance to talk with Emily Liker of the Star Tribune out at TCO Performance Center today. So here is our conversation about these last three games. All right, we welcome back into the show, Emily Liker of the Minnesota Star Tribune in her first full season here in the National Football League, one and a half, I guess, seasons last year.

you joined at a very unique time in Vikings history. But I got five questions for you, and I threw one of them out to react to. Now the new fifth question will be about who's playing Christmas Day at U.S. Bank Stadium because that's going to be a thing that we get to see. But I think the first question for the last three games is really what we're looking at here

is how many games do you think that we need, the Vikings need, the world needs of seeing a quarterback before we can decide what that quarterback is, and why is it not 11? Yeah, I mean, it's not going to be, like, we're going to have to go bleed into the beginning of next season, I think. But you do, you can't, we can't see him drop off again in the next three games. Like, he needs to at least maintain the level he's been playing at the past two weeks against the commanders and then the Cowboys, if not build on that.

I think the biggest thing that you would probably want to say. see in the next three weeks, specifically as him hit Justin Jefferson a few times. Obviously, they're trying to get him to 1,000 yards. And right now, that feels completely unmanageable for him and McCarthy based on where their relationships at, at least in terms of on-field connection. But yeah, an exact number, I think by the end of September next year, you will want to feel like he is stable, that he can do most of the concepts you're throwing at him, that there is a level of consistency there for him.

It's not going to be in these final three games that that all comes to fruition. And you feel, I think, fully confident in it. But I think by that first month of next season, you should be able to say, yes, we're comfortable. We're not going to have to be thinking about whether we should switch QBs in December, all of that. I think when it's always different for almost everybody because there's different circumstances. So if it was the New York Jets and Sam Darnold, and in his year, too, they hired Adam Gase and still didn't get him any good wide receivers and had a bad franchise, bad owner, bad offensive line, bad running game, whatever, that it was probably not fair to him to get judged as quickly as he did. I think when you have Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison, now we could throw Jalen Naylor in. We've seen T.J. Hawkinson play a lot better when the ball comes anywhere near him.

Josh Oliver makes a catch that J.J. McCarthy tried to throw through his body like a javelin, but, you know, they've got the weapons. The offensive line has played really well in these last couple of games, I think earlier in the season, there were some games where you'd say, I'm not sure, you know, against Atlanta, if any quarterback has a great night that night with the blitzes they were sending, the success they were having there. But the last couple games, I think really the key is he's had enough time to work with. And you start to see a a little bit more of what you really have there. But the answer, I think is exactly right for you that through the end of next season,

midway through is very fair. The end of the first month, I think is very fair. But I also think there's a world where he could not play well in these last three games. And that would be much more educational than if he does. Does that make sense? Like these three teams, you have two bad defenses, another defense that won't have parsons and might have their playoff position. already. And if that's the case, I don't think we could take a lot from it unless he plays

bad. And then you're like, well, it couldn't have been much easier for you to play these last three games, two of them being at home. So you have to make that happen to at least give hope to next year. So I think there's, it's, it's kind of like a not much of a win situation for him to prove himself because it's basically don't lose. Yeah. No, I think that's certainly right. Because if he goes into New York and looks ridiculous against New York's defense, then that is concerning because, one, he looked good against the commanders and the Cowboys defenses, which I think are probably on similar levels of success this season and are not as good as many of the other defenses that they face this season and that he's had to face. So, yes, I think that's a good point. And I think also, like, my point about through one month of the season next year is not like, is this guy like going to be the guy for 10 years and he's going to be like a hall of face? or something. It's just, can this guy carry you through a few seasons and, like, help you

find success with this roster that you've built to have success now? Right. There's a lot of quarterbacks we can look at who've had their down moments or their doubt moments of, you know, Bo Nix or Trevor Lawrence, who's changed coaches a couple of times. Even Jordan Love, there have been times in his career where people have asked, like, how good is this guy really? McCarthy is trying to get to a different spot, though, where he just has to make his case for, I am your sole quarterback for next year with a reasonable backup, not, oh my gosh, the franchise is scrambling and hoping to find the next Daniel Jones, which, as we know, has a ceiling on it, and we've seen that many times through history.

All right, the second question I have for you, it also pertains to J.J. McCarthy. I want to know from your viewpoint what you think the best and most translatable things to the future that he does and your number one concern with him going forward. That's a good one. I mean, right now, and I kind of just mentioned this, but like, I think the most pressing concern is like this inability to get the ball to Justin Jefferson. And I know that there are a lot of factors playing into that that aren't directly JJ, but we've seen other court, like Sam Darnold got the ball to Justin Jefferson last year

when they were first facing these defenses that Justin talks about where he's like, Like, I've never seen these coverages before, and they're double, triple teaming me, whatever. That was so new to the Vikings and having a game plan against that. And yet still, Sam Darnold got Justin Jefferson the ball. And so right now, just like that complete lack, and obviously there is some moments taken away. There was the one by penalty the other night and things like that. But that, I would think, like, if we don't see that in the next couple weeks, they better we put in a whole lot of work in in the off season. You have to make sure that Justin Jefferson's at OTAs again and that maybe him and JJ are spending like a whole month of the off season, just throwing a hundred passes every day, whatever it needs to be, to get that going because you want him to be much more involved next year than he has been this year, obviously.

As far as things JJ does well, this is probably not entirely what you're looking for. but I think the way he has seemingly maintained this locker room and some of this team's most important leaders and obviously guys like Jefferson like playing makers the way JJ has maintained like their trust and their support and obviously like there's a level of okay are they saying this just because they're talking to the media they're in front of cameras but I do feel like one this is a pretty honest and transparent locker room and two you can tell and just the ways they say it were like Jefferson's been candid that there are struggles of playing with a young quarterback, but he still says, I believe in JJ to get through this. And so I think

that speaks to his like leadership, what the team sees in him in practice and stuff and kind of the glimmers of hope that we keep hearing about there where he looks good in those situations. It just isn't quite fully translating yet. Well, I also think that the locker room is understanding of the circumstances that he was put in follow up a 14. win season, you've never played in the NFL before, and then we can't underrate as we're trying to evaluate the situation just how much missing five weeks in the middle of your season, like building up some momentum. This is the first stretch minus the Seattle game where he was able to actually build up

a week after week after week. Think about it. He plays two games and then there's a five game stop. He plays even just four more games and then there's another stop. But he didn't have that early. in the season. And I've thought many times about, well, what if he did get to just play Atlanta? And then I don't think the Pittsburgh defense is all that special. Like, go play Pittsburgh. Cleveland's is, but, you know, play that. And, like, get going in those games. Philadelphia's got a good

defense. But, like, build up those reps with Justin Jefferson, build up those reps of just playing quarterback, dealing with the ups and downs, having that big chunk of the season taken away from him. And then to go along with last year, it's like, man, the guy's been on the team for six hundred days and now is playing his ninth ever game like that's that's really hard to i get into a flow of playing quarterback which is why i think it makes it so hard for us to judge for me i i totally agree with uh the concern for me the concern is just still the throwing yeah is that if you on a week to week basis cannot be super consistent with your throwing then some weeks nailer's going to catch that some weeks that's going to get picked off some weeks hawkinson's

going to catch that one floating ball some weeks the safety's going to break on it and pick it off and it just has to get to more consistent which I think can only happen through playing yeah and to your point about him like missing that time too I wonder how much earlier in the season we may have seen some of these conceptual changes that the Vikings have had with the offense or even if they had been necessary at all right like maybe they weren't necessary if he had those reps early on and like that's like the big caveat and I get it sucks to have to have to do like a what if scenario but that's just the truth is like what if he had played those five games early on how much different would we be looking at his season how much different would

his season look number three question is have you started to use like oh i don't know over the cap dot com or whatever to look at free agent options trade options at quarterback or with the way he's played over the last couple weeks have you not booked marked that website i have i have not been at Over the Cap quite yet. We did have a discussion on our Star Tribune podcast Access Vikings the other day, just very loosely about the Joe Burrow situation. And if there could be any move there or anything happening, obviously that was one where we did look at over the cap and said, well, that would be a lot of money for the Vikings to take on. And there would have to be a lot of restructuring there. Obviously, I don't think the Bengals would want to take on

much of that responsibility if they were losing a player like Joe Burrow. But no, I have not dug too much into numbers yet. I usually, by nature of all the writing, I have to do, stick very day-to-day at this point. Well, the thing that I've been asking everybody is about my take, that the Vikings should just, no matter what happens in these last three games, roll with J.J. McCarthy, even if it's a bad game in New York that shocks us, It's a good game against the Packers that everyone's excited about that up and down. Hey, now we officially have a roller coaster, by the way.

It was mostly just down, but now it went up. Yeah. So now we've got a roller coaster, but that's only, I guess, if it goes down, I don't know. It's hard to figure out that metaphor. But if there is those moments, if there is a down in New York and an up against Detroit or whatever, as long as it isn't a catastrophe, as long as it isn't two touchdowns, eight picks, and everybody is just throwing their hands up in the air, which I'm. I don't expect to happen against these last couple opponents, especially since he already beat

Detroit and New York is every bit as bad as Washington and Dallas, a little bit better on the pass rush, I think, which could impact him, but that they should go in regardless because they don't have enough information still. And the teams that have stuck with these quarterbacks through thick and thin have often been rewarded for doing so. And I feel like if they bail out now, they put a ceiling on themselves where, okay, you traded for Mac Jones. Congratulations on your eight wins. It's just really hard to see a team going out and finding a quarterback in this year's free agency trade environment unless it's Joe Burrow that would make a case for you being a legitimate contender next year. Well, and they undo any goodwill they've earned in the

quarterback ecosystem and break their kind of mantra of organizations fail quarterbacks before quarterbacks fill organizations like there's just no avenue in my mind where they would somehow get through the next three games even if they were shut out and all three of them like and j jay lectorbo where they would be like nope yep that's it we're done with this we can't do it like there's just no avenue i think where they do that to all of the points you mentioned and and that mantra that they have and this feeling that they have about qBs and i think you see it like why they say that in guys like Daniel Jones and Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield, these guys who were given up on by their organizations early in their careers

and are now 26, 27, 28, however old they all are. And are these guys that were like, wow, if you had Daniel Jones, you'd be winning right now. And it's like, okay, the Giants were maybe saying that. He's not maybe the best example. But like the Jets weren't saying that about Sam Darnold. And now we're seeing, is Sam Darnold going to leave the Seahawks to the Super Bowl? You just have to balance those things, and I get no one wants to be patient anymore in football or in life, and we've all been taught to act like that now. But that's what this requires, this sport requires, and I think quarterbacking specifically requires.

Yeah, and I do think that it is a fast-moving world of organizations because there's so much pressure out there. And you'd love to, I know West Phillips made a comparison to Tom Landry earlier this year, but Tom Landry was a coach in the sixth. and there was no free agency and your ownership didn't spend 300 million and jerseys probably didn't cost $300 for fans to buy. And there probably wasn't an NFL network 24-7 ESPN and all that sort of attention that goes to each team. There just is not time for this the way that things work. Also, there's not time in this specific organization with the age and expense of the players.

If you had drafted McCarthy at a time where you drafted 15. other young guys that you were going to all slowly develop together and our plan is four years from now. Well, that would be tremendous. That's a great team building approach. However, you don't have that. Like, because you didn't put all the eggs in the drafting basket and you haven't hit home runs on the draft picks. Some are good, but not like the next three Justin Jeffersons. Then you're in a spot where like these guys are 27, 28, 29. They're in their primes. You have to make this work right now. But I agree with you that there is. is not like a, even a Sam Darnold type quarterback that's expected to be available for next year.

And also for every Sam Darnold that worked out, there's like 15 Mitch Trubiske's, Paxton Lynches, like guys who just never really got it. Let's talk about the rest of the football team if you want to for these last three games. So I, the other day, Alec Lois was in here and I said to Alec, like, hey, what are we looking for? Not McCarthy related for the last couple of games. and, you know, that noise he makes where he goes, like, that's kind of what he did. That's kind of what he did because he really struggled to think of other players

whose futures could be directed by these last couple of games. Do you have any nominations for that? I am going to go with Jalen Redmond, who's already had a good season and Ty Ingram Dawkins. Oh, yeah, I like that one. He was good the other night. Yeah, and he's been playing a little. bit more. He's still hovering only between like 15 to 20 percent of snaps for the defense. But I think

you're looking at maybe having decisions to make with Jonathan Allen and Javon Hargrave, like considering the cap space and all of that in just their age and some of the struggles they've been up against this year. Obviously, Javon Hargraig dealing with another injury now after that game the other night. And so those are two that I'm like, if they really step up in these next three games, that maybe changes some decisions that you make in the offseason and allows you some wiggle room there at a position that was highly spent on last year. And you can say, okay, no, these are guys that we're going to roll with and that we feel comfortable with. Again, obviously, Jalen Redmond's done that. I feel like he's been a little bit quieter in recent

weeks, but early in the season had some great games. I think he's at five sacks right now. So, yeah, it's him, I think, as the 1A. And then Ty and Grum Dawkins, I'll sneak in there as like a young guy that we haven't talked about just in general a ton this season. But if they factor him in a little bit more in the next few weeks, could be an interesting case. Every player that we talk about almost seems like, eh, in comparison to the quarterback. The quarterback is just so monumental for any franchise. But you could nominate Dallas Turner for sure because now Jonathan Grenard's going to be out. And, you know, Brian Flores wasn't really buying what we were selling when we were asking him just a few minutes ago about Dallas

Turner playing the Jonathan Grinard role where he's been clearly better than trying to be Andrew Van Ginkle. Shocker, Van Ginkle's 30 years old and incredible. So it's kind of hard to emulate and unique. There's not too many of him where Grinard is a rushed passer guy. I think we should have some expectations for Dallas Turner. If he can get to seven and a half, eight sacks or something on the season, which I know is not the best metric, but have a couple of good games strung together here to the point where you're saying, all right, that was a big step and now take another one next year. And hey, make that hard on them. Make that complicated on them of where to fit you in with Jonathan Granard and Andrew Van Ginkle because you've played so well. I think that he

does have a chance to do that. Yeah, I didn't want to say Turner because you've made a point of pointing out how often we talk about Turner this season. But I agree. And I think one thing that's really interesting with him. And I'd be curious his to talk to him this week about this is like he had those two or three weeks back to back midseason that were like really bad. He got penalty. He had these big penalties, sacks taken off the board, all of that. And it feels like he's really turned a corner since then. And I, we haven't heard anything about like, was there some conversation Brian Flores had with him or one of his fellow linebackers, like anything like that. But I'm just curious if that was like an internal self revelation like having those moments and being like

I can't keep doing this if I want to build the career I want or if there was something else that prompted that because I remember like late last season one of the conversations after I had got here with Brian Flores was about having the conversation about routine with Dallas Turner and guys late in the season and how like your season's going on four more weeks than it is a college season and all of that so I'm curious if there's been another conversation of something along those lines. I think it just, for me, it just correlates with, and that definitely could be, but it just correlates with him playing the role where he could just rush faster.

I mean, it seems to be not that he can't do a lot of stuff. And we've seen him make some really spectacular plays in coverage, like shutting down screens, even there was a checkdown by Dak Prescott where he was rushing and then turned around and chase the guy down all the way from behind to stop a third down. so he's done some good things each game, but it feels like, you know, yes, he's got those abilities. And if you've seen him catch the ball in practice, you're like, oh, I could see why they put him in coverage or the interception last year against Seattle. But where he's going to get his production is probably just a bunch of rushing the quarterback and then put a move on somebody and get a sack like he did it against Seattle. But I feel like that one is still a little up in the air for what's your level of optimism on?

I think clear progress. Yeah. But is it, like, very optimistic or more along the lines of, yeah, it was good, but it was definitely not great. There's a couple other players to mention their new intrigue with Jay Ward, where he's on the field a lot more. And look, I think Harrison Smith is probably going to retire. So what's your story for next year? I think Theo Jackson, it's been quite clear that he's more of a rotational type of role player guy. Everybody loves him, highly intelligent, but there are physical limitations, I think, that probably,

keep him from being like maybe the next, you know, Harrison Smith or something, but that position is a little up in the air for how they're going to feel about it next year with do you put Mattelis back there? Do you have Jay Ward's as a starter? Or are you going to just go forward with Theo Jackson and say, hey, this was his first time starting? Or do you go into free agency and look for some veteran player? And here's another thing. We're not even 100% sure Brian Flores is the defensive coordinator next year. If he is, we heard him today talking. endlessly about Harrison Smith and how valuable he is basically calling the defense on the field. Well, that I think now has to become Josh Mattelis, but it certainly wasn't the same, you know,

because like Harrison's one of the goats. It was not quite the same earlier in the year. So I wonder about how like that progresses if they do lose Harrison Smith. Yeah. I mean, I think certainly if Smith is indeed gone and Flores stays, I would think they, that he moves Mattelis into that Smith role, at least to start, because the thing we heard him say today is like to put a guy in a role like the one Harry plays where he's able to check the coverages and change things around.

Like he needs to have some experience with them personally, not just a reputational thing. So even if they were to bring someone in in free agency who maybe Flores thought could do that, I still think it would be maybe near the end of the season or midway through the season that those responsibilities switch from Josh Mattelis, who he's praised a lot for being. being able to do that type of stuff and having a high football IQ to, okay, no, I want Josh Mattelis more up front, more at that second level, potentially, and giving that new person, whoever that may be that responsibility. I also think I'll throw one more at you.

Then we'll get to the fifth question. Kevin O'Connell, these last three games, I think, are extremely important to him. Like, I'm not talking about in a could get fired type of realm. I'm just talking about in a confidence in him in the relationship with J.J. McCarthy and how those two are clicking because the last couple weeks they have seemed to be very much on the same page. How someone performs is always going to dictate how good your relationship with them is in football. But those two, McCarthy and O'Connell, have really been through it this year. And to finish on a strong note, to go 9 and 8, to go 8 and 9 and create a run through

the end of the season, I think would be really important for O'Connell to look back at this year and go as much of a nightmare as so many things were, the injuries early on, the injury to JJ, the Carson Wentz thing, the whole circus with him in L.A. and everything else, if you come out eight and nine, it's definitely not what we thought it was going to be, but it's better than nothing. And to win all of the games the rest of the way would be, I think, a really big accomplishment to get over 500 because oftentimes won't happen this year, but oftentimes nine and eight gets you into the playoffs. Right.

So how important, or maybe what is the thing you're looking for from O'Connell for these last three games? I think it's continuing the course with what has been working for JJ, because I think it would be easy now that they've stacked those two wins, say they stack a third against the Giants for him to go into those final two games, which do require a little bit more intense game planning, being the opponents they are and being divisional opponents. But I think if he, like, it's clear that what they've done the past two games is working for JJ.

Yes. And so they, I think he just needs to stick with that and put aside anything of, oh, like, itching to maybe like do something more intricate or intense and just let JJ settle in, stack the wins, stack the confidence, stack the positive plays, all the things that they say they want to stack. I think that will be the mark for O'Connell is letting JJ close out strong without feeling the need to push anything conceptually. Again, if it occurs naturally and we get through the Giants game and it feels like JJ's ready to handle more certainly. But you get into the Lions game and he's like freaking out in the first quarter, then okay, go back to what's working.

And I think that will be the big key because I think that's one of the questions or one of the things that popped up discussion-wise as we've gone through this whole season with JJ's development is Kevin O'Connell's done this with a lot of older quarterbacks, but he hasn't ever had to do it with someone fresh out of college like this in such an intense role. So stay in the course, letting JJ build up confidence. I think that will be a good path for COC. And we all make this sound very easy. Like, why don't you just do it this way?

Well, first of all, Washington and Dallas. the two worst defenses against the past in the NFL. I think they're both even worse than Cincinnati, worse than the Jets, or at least they were going into this week. I mean, this is truly, truly AAA level, like not NFL caliber defenses that you're used to facing. Not even the 20th defense is like 50 miles better than these teams.

So running the training wheels version got them these wins, got the confidence back, got a little belief, got them rolling. But I do not think you can run. this type of offense, week in and week out and have the explosiveness level, have the consistency that you need to go through a whole season next year. Like this was the right thing to do. Also, it's hard to figure out what your quarterback really is when he plays the first two games and then has to sit the next five.

Yes. I mean, I think that that's just a really hard thing to do. I also think that McCarthy in meeting rooms in practice, we saw this during camp, I think he gets it. And then it's just about applying it, but he has to play an actual game. to do it. So it's a much tougher balance than it is when you're sitting on your couch or in the press box, eating popcorn. Speaking of which, fifth question for you is Snoop Dog is going to perform here at halftime on Christmas Day. And what I realized chatting with you before we

started recording was that we viewed Snoop Dog quite differently because when I was a youth and he was starting to emerge, he was a legitimate gangster rap. who was once on trial for his freedom. And now he's like chilling with Martha Stewart. That's odd to me. I mean, good for Mr. Dog. He's one of the all-time great rappers to me. Like one of the most gifted rappers to ever come out.

And but how I viewed him was like, this guy's like a scary gangster rapper who is involved in stuff that is unfathomable to me. And now he's just like a chill dude who. cooks and coaches kids and, you know, I guess we all change. Yeah, there's been some image rehabilitation, manipulation, just restart. I don't know, with him for sure. But yes, yeah, I mean, I am aware of all of that. I'm aware that Snoop Dog was a rapper, a very prominent rapper.

But certainly, like I think for my generation, like more of what he has been, has been this kind of like personality that's invaded all these. different spaces and admittedly I think like a very interesting way like Martha Stewart obviously that's just kind of like a crazy one to be in though she was also in jail for a time I know she's gangsters but like with the Olympics coverage that he's done in the way NBC has used him in that it's really fascinating so it's an interesting choice I'm curious like if they'll do any like non-music stuff in the halftime with him like if any of it will be like performance there's going to be special guests in there. Obviously, Netflix has a lot of celebrities it could call on.

They've already been doing it with like David Harbor from Stranger Things, like doing advertisements for these games and stuff. So I'm curious how much will be him performing those songs that you grew up knowing versus them maybe trying to play into more of the side of him that I know now and have been more familiar with in the past 10 years. I don't know if a lot of his songs would be appropriate for a Christmas Day performance. I would actually love to see Snoop Dog do Christmas songs in his Snoop Dogg way. And just in case you hear this, Snoop, I'm a huge fan. I can't wait. I mean, Doggy Style was just one of the greatest albums of all time. There's no debating it, even if the name feels awkward coming out of me right now.

So I think that he'll put it somewhere in between of like maybe a classic Snoop Dog song that's a little bit tidied up and then maybe some Christmas cheer to it. I hope he wears a Christmas hat. I mean, this is cool. It's a, we were wondering about this like, who's it going to be after Detroit got freaking Jack White and he crushed it? There's a high bar now for Snoop Dog. Well, and just last year, I mean, Netflix's debut halftime show is Beyonce, which is a pretty high barred set. And obviously, like, there was like millions of people that tuned into that game just for the halftime show. And then we were, I mean, we're a week of way and we just got the announcement. I was beginning to think there wasn't going to be a

halftime show. I was like, well, they just gave up on that idea. They couldn't find anyone that would be recognizable to Minnesota in terms of like, oh, this is a homegrown hero, which obviously they didn't because they went with Snoop Dogg. But with special guests, I don't know if there's any Minnesota special guests that they could bring out that would make sense with Snoop. I don't know if Lizzo is still popular or if that's not a thing anymore. I'm not really. Briefly, She mentioned the team in her big song. So that goes to all of my pop music knowledge, and that is that for us. Emily Liker, you do a great job at the Minnesota Star Tribune.

And I know you guys have done some fun podcasts on Access Vikings, where you go through and learn Vikings history. And what a zoo that must be to walk through and just look at all of the museum of insanity that is the Minnesota Vikings. But we are glad to have you on the beat, and we'll definitely do this again. Thanks for having me.