Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Justin Jefferson talks about his contract situation

Episode Date: September 8, 2023

Matthew Coller and Manny Hill react to Justin Jefferson talking about his contract situation and discuss Josh Metellus's extension and what it means for Lewis Cine Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Hot Routes. Matthew Collard here, along with Manny Hill once again on the show. And Manny, we've got actual football going on, so we're both trying to keep track of the game while we're doing the show. But hopefully people, and this is going to be an every Thursday night thing, will watch the game and listen to us talk in the background, as opposed to the broadcast maybe. And we'll see how it goes. But I'm excited to preview the week to come as well as talking about what's going on with, of course, our local Vikings and so forth. But how do you feel, Manny? It's been such a long time since we had football and now

it is finally back on the old TV. So that's gotta be pretty good feeling. Maybe if we get one of those really bad, like early November Thursday night matchups that we used to get in the past when like everyone, like it would be like the Jaguars and the Titans or something. And it were those awful like color rush uniforms. And maybe, maybe those will be the nights where we'll get a lot more sort of viewership,

so to speak, during those games that are pretty boring that everybody hates. But certainly not tonight. I mean, you've got about as good a matchup as you can ask for to start the season. So it's going to be fun, though. I'm looking forward to this. Yeah, well, luckily, people can listen on the replay as well and on the audio feed on the hot routes on itunes of which there are additional episodes that aren't on this youtube channel so

you want to go to itunes and make sure that you uh subscribe there as well to the hot routes feed along with the purple insider feed so anyway uh yeah so we got a lot going on a lot to get to manny and i think we have to begin in a pretty obvious place that Justin Jefferson spoke with the media today. And this was kind of the first time in a while that he's been in front of us. And he usually does every Thursday during the season. But in the offseason, it's kind of just like here or there where he'll hold a press conference. And it was very interesting to hear him talk about his contract because I think he was trying as hard as he possibly could to go out of his way,

not to say anything that was going to imply that like, give me all the money. He was trying not to do that. And at the same time, there was a little bit of like, but you guys should give me the money. So I'm going to bring you at least one of his comments. I'm not really too sure.

A hundred percent on that. I'm just here to play football like always, you know, and leave all of that other stuff up to them. Of course, I will want a contract to be done, but at the end of the day, it's all up to them and what the ownership want to them. Of course, I will want a contract to be done, but at the end of the day, it's all up to them and what the ownership want to do with that. And Manny, we saw Nick Bosa get a huge contract just before tonight's game. Joe Burrow signs a massive contract. These are guys who are among the best players at their position in the NFL, Jefferson, of course, is in that category as well.

So my question for you is, if the Vikings don't get Justin Jefferson extended before kickoff on Sunday, is it panic time? Where would you put it on the 1-10 panic meter if they are not able to come to an agreement with Justin Jefferson? Well, on a scale of 1 to 10, I would say maybe about a 4. And I say it's only that low because he is signed, you know, on his rookie scale contract, he's signed through next season. And so it's not like if they don't get something worked out this year that he's just going to walk in free agency and, oh, it's bye-bye Justin Jefferson. But I do think that if they don't get a deal done before Sunday, it is something that will be, you know, people are

going to need to kind of watch for. And certainly he's going to get a ton of questions about it. You know, Kweisi will get a ton of questions about it. KOC will get a ton of questions about it. But as far as, you know, should people really panic about it? I don't think so, at least not yet. I think if we get into next offseason and there's still no deal done, then it's going to be like, uh-oh, what's going to happen here? And then it's like, okay, well, is he going to hold out? You know, because he didn't.

Obviously, he didn't hold out this offseason, but they don't get it done next. Get one done next season, next offseason. Then it's going to be the clock will really be ticking at that point and then it'll be really dicey. But I think right now I don't think there's a lot to really worry about at this point. JJ is a professional. Obviously, he's showing up to really worry about at this point. JJ's a professional. Obviously, he's showing up to work every day, ready to go. He's going to be ready to go Sunday. So as far as them needing to, you know, people need to panic right now,

I don't think so. But we are Minnesota sports fans, and we are naturally born to panic whenever something slightly goes wrong. So we'll see how it goes. That's right there. You have to do this on a sliding scale of Minnesota. This has to be added into this because they have been through this before this fan base so many times it feels like, but for me, it's probably only around the same range as you, maybe even a three.

What it means is that things could get ugly. let's see, one year from now, basically. I mean, even when you look at Nick Bosa throughout this entire offseason, it's what's going on with Bosa? Is he going to sign? Is he going to sign? Is he going to sign? And then right before the season starts, after he sat out the entire training camp and hasn't had to go through all that, Then he signs one of the biggest deals in history.

And you don't want that. You don't want that drama. You don't want those discussions going on around your team. And for San Francisco, that was a distraction for them in a year where they think that they could win the Super Bowl. And for the Vikings, you really would prefer not to have that next year. But at the same time, there is just so much set up in place in the Vikings favor for signing Justin Jefferson in terms of the fifth year option, the franchise

tag, those things that it makes sense for him to try to work out a deal with them as much as it does them with him. And what you want is everybody to come away happy with no bad blood and no frustration. It's like if you get married, you don't want a fight at your wedding. You're still married, but, you know, you're going to remember how ugly that was. Like you don't want that. But even then, like money heals all wounds when it comes to something like this. So I think if they don't get something done by Sunday, that that's not a huge problem. It does reduce the Vikings flexibility in the future with the cap. It does probably send the price up to some extent and because it's not

going down after this. But it doesn't mean that he's a Jacksonville Jaguar next year. And I think that that would be the only point you would panic is if the words trade requests get tossed out there. Then you start to go, OK, this is maybe a Khalil Mack type of situation. But until something like that happens, the way that I read Justin Jefferson's body language is he does not enjoy this discussion at all. He does not want to have this conversation in front of everybody. I think he wants to keep it behind closed doors, but also a very good faith approach from him to not make noise in public and also to go to every single practice, every single rep. They put the C on his jersey.

And, you know, he talked about like trying to just, you know, be that captain and the leader through, you know, all the noise about his contract extension. But at the same time, if you're Jefferson, you're probably a little agitated that they haven't gotten this done at some point. But I think that the way he's handled it, all of the indications have been that this is not an ugly situation. And even if it goes past that deadline, the door opens again, assuming that they don't negotiate in the season. The door opens again in February for them to have these discussions. So we are so far away from it, even though it's like a topic du jour and he's talking about it.

If it doesn't happen, there's so much time before kickoff next season for this to happen that I don't think that the panic number should be all that high. Yeah, I agree with you. And, you know, to your point, it's, you know, he has shown up. He's answered questions. He's been ready to go. He's a competitor. He wants to play. It's not like he's going to sit out. You know, we don't have to worry about him holding out right now.

It's not like a Chris Jones situation that the Chiefs are dealing with right now. I mean, Chris Jones is not playing tonight because he doesn't have a contract and he wants a new contract. I don't think we're going to get to that point yet with JJ, but like you said, if we fast forward a year from now and there's still no deal done, then he might be one of those guys that's sitting out week one because he doesn't want to put himself at risk of getting injured without having a new big contract. So hold on. Let me scroll back up.

Sorry about that. Joel says, thoughts on the Joe Burrow extension. Well, I mean, my thought, Manny, is just that, wow, there's a lot of money the NFL is making. I mean, that's number one. Number two is there is a select list of dudes that play the quarterback position that are worth it, and Mr. Burrow is worth it.

However, him and Josh Allen suddenly becoming expensive, along with Justin Herbert, makes this dynamic really interesting because the front office game has not been very hard for these teams. It's been have Josh Allen, profit. Go get whoever you want, pay whoever you want, extend whoever you want, whatever. And the same thing goes for Cincinnati. They basically rebuilt their defensive and offensive line

through free agency because they were like, okay, I guess we can go get Orlando Brown, we can trey hendrickson we could get mike hilton we'll just start adding anybody who can sign a contract and wants to live in cincinnati but after this it becomes where you have to be quite shrewd and you have to get some good things going your way or it does become more difficult and even if you are joe burrow uh you're probably guaranteed to be a good team just by having him. But are you a true Super Bowl contender when the roster dips a little bit, unless you are very good in the front office game and you don't let the roster dip.

And so how they play it from here, savvy signings and extensions, some cap management, they're going to have to draft well, which is a pretty random, but we talk about that a lot on the show, but They're going to have to draft well, which is pretty random, but we talk about that a lot on the show. But you're going to need that to survive. So now I think the AFC battle just got more interesting

because the guys who are established, one, two, three, four, well, they're all highly paid. And the Chiefs, they played this game extremely well by letting go Tyree Kill and knowing that Patrick Mahomes could make up for a lot of that. But now it's going to be like, hey, if Anthony Richardson's good, now they got the advantage. If C.J. Stroud is good, now they got the advantage, right,

over some of the highest paid quarterbacks. So in a way, we here cover the NFC mostly. I'm a little bit jealous because there's nothing more intriguing than the front office game that's going to get played over the next couple of years with these elite quarterbacks. Well, and the other interesting thing with Cincinnati is, okay, you've paid Joe Burrow. He's going to be taking up a significant portion of your cap.

Jamar Chase is going to have to get paid, you know, very soon. Tee Higgins is going to have to get paid very soon. Are they going to have to make a decision between one of those two guys? Can they be able to sign both of them? I mean, Tee Higgins is really good, man. Like we know how great Jamar Chase is. Tee Higgins is fantastic. And if Cincinnati wants to stay in this, you know,

keep this Super Bowl contending window open, they're going to have to find a way to, you certainly don't want to keep at least one of those guys, but you probably want to find a way to keep both of them because it's good to have two wide receivers that are really good instead of just one. So that's going to be an interesting thing to see too, is just how they kind of handle that, you know,

is how much money is T Higgins going to want if they, you know, if they pay Jamar Chase, okay, is T Higgins going to want that same amount? Are they going to be able to afford that? What are they going to do there? So that'll be interesting to see how they sort of, you know, navigate through that over the next couple of years. The window is open now, but, you know, a year from now, two years from now, when they have to pay those other two guys, what's going to happen there? And the structure of the entire thing should be very interesting as well, because, of course, they put out the biggest numbers.

But how many years is this window open even with josh allen the window remained open with fairly low cap hits i think until maybe last year or even this year where it finally took that jump up so it was two more years after he signed the extension before it took that huge jump and mahomes did that last year and so now how do you manage around that who who can you afford to let go who can you know who do you have to pay like you can you afford to let go? Who can you know? Who do you have to pay? Like you're talking about with T Higgins, like, is he a guy you have to pay or a guy that you want to pay?

And how are you going to make those decisions? And how much is your ownership willing to sell out the future for the short term? Because, you know, you look at the Saints, you look at how the Vikings handled this when they first got Kirk. Those teams had a lot of expensive players, but they just sold out the future. And eventually the bill came and both teams got smacked in the mouth by the salary cap a little bit and had to lose a lot of players. But the Bengals are in a position to sell out for a few years.

So a lot of times what you could do is just kind of kick the ball down the road while your winning window is open. And eventually it will hit you, but not for a few seasons. And that could be happening here. Blue Stork says, OK, now that I've seen it, Detroit is scaring me. Well, it's seven to seven. So, you know, in the second quarter.

But I do think I do think Detroit is going to be good, Manny. It was kind of a one of the offseason topics of like, is this Detroit team really going to be good or is it just the hype train? And I think the answer is probably somewhere in the middle. But I'm not shocked that they're playing fairly well against Kansas City to start the season. Are you? No, not at all. I mean, Travis Kelsey's not playing tonight.

Chris Jones is obviously, as we talked about, is not playing tonight. So that's two of the Chiefs' three best players on their team is not playing tonight so i mean we know that patrick holmes is basically god on the football field but you know he can't he can't do it all by himself and so you know and the lions have talent i mean jared goff sometimes we make jokes about jared goff but this is a guy that led a team to a Super Bowl, you know, four years ago or five years ago now, I guess. So he's certainly capable.

I think with the way that they finished the season last year, they're certainly a team that's going to be very competitive this year. And who knows if the Vikings slip enough and the Lions kind of keep on this steady trajectory, they're going to end up winning this division. So the Vikings are going to have to be careful. I think there's reason for a little bit of concern. But I think the Vikings are going to have to do, you know, what we believe that they're going to be able to do in order to hang on to this division and win it. And I think they will. But it's not going to be easy. It're going to be able to do in order to hang on to this division and win it.

And I think they will. But it's not going to be easy. It's going to be a dogfight. And so far at the moment, I mean, Jared Goff is kind of doing what I expect Jared Goff to do, which is complete a lot of passes. I think that they have weapons that they're going to scheme open and they have one of the best wide receivers in the NFL in Amin Ross St. Brown. So I think it is going to be a dangerous offense. Maybe the thing and this is like the first half of the first game and it's without Travis Kelsey, but their defense playing pretty well or reasonably well against Kansas City. That's where if their defense steps up, they can be a very legit team because I think their defensive ceiling is higher than the Vikings. They've been drafting on defense for a while. They've been adding pieces to their secondary. Well, the Vikings are kind of like where Detroit's defense was last year, where you've got some

players that you like, but you've also got some holes in that defense and very little depth. So it's kind of like the Vikings need another year to catch that up. And I think that's, I mean, reason to believe if their defense is good, that they can win that division. JP says, am I the only one to think that if Kirk plays well, Quasey will panic and pull a Spielman move and give Kirk an extension? It really depends on how well, don't you think Manny? Like, I think the bar is extremely high for Kirk Cousins to get an extension. Number one, because Kirk seems fine with it. I mean, if Kirk was like irritated that they hadn't extended him and really wanted to be nothing but a Viking for life, then OK, maybe you would say like, OK, he'll probably sign anything they put in front of him after this year.

But I think that the way that this regime has not bought into Cousins, which is the smart way to do it, to him has probably been pretty off-putting. I mean, if I was in his position and I won 13 games and put up good numbers and had all these fourth quarter comebacks and got the ball to Jefferson as much as I did, and they came to me and said, how about a contract that doesn't keep us locked into you? I'd be like, no, what's your problem? I'm going somewhere else. Now, and I think this is I'm going somewhere else now. And I think this is the, I think this is the right handling for both parties. And so unless they go to the NFC championship, I think that the Vikings and Kirk are probably best going through this season,

trying to win the division, trying to go deep in the playoffs and then just parting ways, unless it is so good and they have a top five offense and they're in the NFC championship that you just have to do it. Kind of like Joe Flacco 2012, where they were ready to move on from Joe Flacco. They did not sign that extension with him, and he was a free agent after that year,

and then he won the Super Bowl. They're like, okay, let's give Joe Flacco the worst contract in football, which they did, but who cares? Flags fly forever. So, yeah, I think that maybe your opinion is different, but I don't see this scenario happening unless they do extremely, extremely well this year. Well, I mean, if winning 13 games and winning the division last year

wasn't enough for them to give them an extension. And why, I mean, if they do that again, let's say they win this division again, let's say they win 11 or 12 games again, win the NFC North again, and maybe win a playoff game, I can't even really see that being enough you know i mean to your point i think it would take like i think it would take that and a trip to the nfc championship game to the point where it's like it's almost like a no-brainer where it's like okay well come on we just we gotta extend it but even i mean this case keenum took this team to the NFC championship game, you know, six, six, seven years ago. And they parted ways with him after that, you know, because they felt like they needed to do better.

And in this case, it might just be he might leave this team to an NFC championship game. And they still might, you know, KOC and Kwasi might still look at each other and say, eh, but if we part ways with Kirk and bring in a young quarterback in, it gives us so much more flexibility, so much to work with. And don't you just kind of feel like Kevin O'Connell wants to find his guy? I know he's worked in the past with Kirk and Washington, and they seem to have a good working relationship now. But every young head coach wants to find their guy, right? Like, they can't help themselves.

And eventually, at some point, Kirk's not going to play forever. At some point, the Vikings are going to have to move on from him. And after this season seems like the perfect time folks we are going all in on prize picks this football season if you haven't heard of it prize picks is the easiest and best way to play daily fantasy instead of battling against thousands of other players and people who spend their entire life doing fantasy, all you do is pick more or less on between two and six players' stat projections. Say a quarterback's number is 250 yards. Go more or less, and bang, you're playing.

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Should be a lot of fun. Go to prizepix.com slash purple. That is prizepix.com slash purple. Use the code purple for a first deposit match up to $100. That's prize picks.com slash purple. Use the code purple prize picks daily fantasy sports made easy. Um, so Jason says, uh, the longer the Vikings wait, the more expensive JJ will be get it done. Now. I, uh, agree completely. I don't think it gets easier from here. And I think with these contracts that have been signed in the last few days, what you're going to have to do is it's sort of like this. So I bought a house recently. And when the listing price is out on the internet, you think like, oh, well, it's that, but it's not that it's way higher than that because it's a very competitive

market. And so when you look at the receiver market and what the best receivers have been paid, you go like, oh, those are the list prices, but they're not the actual prices. You have to go way above list now after the contracts that have been signed. And they just have to accept that. That's how I look at it. They have to accept that. He's got all the cards right now, even if they could do the whole franchise bit and everything else. But that's actually hard for the team to do because if you franchise tag a guy and it's $30 million franchise tag, it's 30 million on the cap. You don't want to do that. So they'll say, well, we got a franchise tag and he'll say, I could demand a trade or I could just take the

franchise tag and then I get all that cash. And I don't think either side, it's kind of like that scene in the office where everybody's pointing the finger guns at each other. They're kind of like, you know, they're like at a standoff. That's what this feels like. But each side knows that it's better for them if they sign an extension. Jeff Viking says Vikings don't appear to have any better options than Cousins anytime soon. I mean, I don't know if you watched college football last week,

but I disagree. I mean, there's a lot of quarterbacks that are coming out this year that could be first rounders. Also, the team has won one playoff game since he signed in the year 2018. I was a lot younger in 2018. The hairline came down to here in 2018. You had hair. You had a big fro. No, I'm just kidding.

You've never had hair since I've known you. But I mean, it's been a long time and the man has won one playoff game. Like this hasn't worked. This has been a pretty much a complete failure from what their expectations were when they signed him. So to say there's no better options, like I don't then losing every year in the first round or not making the playoffs. Like I definitely think that there's better options down the road, but I think what happens, Manny is any team that has an average quarterback. They always think, well, what if we draft a bad quarterback? But the thing is, if you draft a bad quarterback, you just keep building up your roster and you just keep getting better. And also if your roster is this good already has this many foundational pieces, hey, the 49ers drafted Trey Lance, and they're a Super Bowl favorite.

Like, if your roster is already good and built solidly, you can make a mistake in the draft and still have it end up working out fine with your roster building. I just think that, like, the athleticism element, the mobility element is going to be necessary in the future. And also they can give a rookie quarterback the best possible situation with a great receiver, a great tight end, another rookie receiver who's ascending. I mean, I think that their options are really good actually going forward at this quarterback position. Plus, if there's any

quarterback who is disgruntled, who do you want to play with? Oh, the best wide receiver in football. So when Tom Brady says I'm coming back or Philip Rivers says I'm coming back, you're the team that they're coming to. Or if Andrew Luck says he's coming back. You know, there's a as far as options, I mean, there's a there's a young man in Boulder, Colorado, that I saw play on last Saturday that played really, really well against TCU. That's very intriguing to me. And there's a guy out in Los Angeles that's pretty good. That's going to be a top pick and guy in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, who might be pretty good. I mean, there's going to be options.

And look, I mean, we don't even know where the Vikings are going to finish yet. I mean, we think that they're probably going to win the division. But what if they don't? What if they're 8-9 or 9-8? Then you're picking in the middle of the first round. Then you have a little bit more of an ability to move up, maybe into the top five and get a young quarterback. If you want, who knows? I mean,

I think there are, I think there are options. I don't, I don't think we should be, you know, trying to convince ourselves that, well, I guess we're just going to have to settle with Kirk the rest of the way here. I mean, I think there's, there's an opportunity here beyond this season. You see how this year goes. Maybe Kirk plays well. They build off of what they did last year and play better.

I have my doubts about that. But if they don't, then maybe you're in a position to where you can move up and get one of those young quarterbacks in next year's draft. Draft Deion's kid and bring in Deion as defensive backs coach. And that's the plan. That's the plan. He, just looking at him, athleticism, but also accuracy, maturity, leadership. I mean, he was checking a lot of boxes for me.

And I was only one game. But, you know, last year, Anthony Richardson played that first game against Utah. And it was sort of the same effect where everyone went like, okay, who is this? And the guy ended up fourth overall. So I wouldn't be surprised if he is a guy to watch along with some others. Blue stork says watching the chiefs makes me miss McKinnon. Always. I mean, always a big McKinnon guy. I thought that they should have leaned into his receiving ability a little bit

more when he was here, but mistakes were made on offense during the Zimmer era. Matthew says, nice to see Josh Metellus' extension. Thoughts on it only being two years. Well, yeah, I mean, it'll keep him here for at least a couple more seasons, and then we can kind of see where that goes from here. But Josh Metellus, I think, is one of the best stories on the team, and he's also a lesson about a lot of things. I mean, you could take life advice from Josh Metellus. This is

a guy who was cut as a sixth round pick and is as intelligent as it gets for an NFL player. He's a great teammate. This year, you talk about like a diligence and how much you care about your job. He completely revamped how he got ready for the

season based on the fact that he thought he was going to play more on defense. So he's doing breathing exercises, long distance running to be ready to handle the workload he's going to have to go through. I mean, this guy, this guy could coach the team, right? Like he, he is, is that kind of level of football intelligence. I wrote about this earlier this year that that's like his secret weapon. And so when you see a guy who maybe wasn't the most high touted player, it kind of reminds me a lot of like Anthony Harris, you know, somebody who just works his way through the ranks like this to get this extension. I think it's one of the coolest things in the game, Manny.

When a guy does it the way that he did by being like first class teammate that everybody talks about, helping everybody around him grinding on the special teams like there's a there is entitlement in sports i don't know if you ever heard this but there is you'd be surprised and uh there there is no entitlement in this man he did everything that that he needed to do and i think also like he's a legit weapon for them i mean somebody who can move around and play a lot of different spots is an aggressive player, a really good tackler, really instinctual and intelligent player. And I give Brian Flores a lot of credit.

I'm just impressed by Brian Flores' ability to see somebody like this and go, I can use you. I can find a way to use you. So I love this extension for him. Two years is probably as far as you'd want to go, for someone who's been just a special teamer but i think this is kind of a sign from the organization like if if you're an undrafted free agent or you're a late round pick and you're like this guy we will reward you so i think it's

good on a lot of levels yeah i agree with you he he kind of reminds me of and i think he's actually going to end up being probably even more of an impact player on the field than this. But, you know, Matthew Slater of the Patriots, it's that same type of thing where he's just he's not a big name guy, obviously, but he's just a great teammate behind the scenes. He goes out, he does his job, one of the best special teams players that the NFL has had in the last decade or so. And, you know, like I said, I think Josh Metellus has a potential to be even more than have more of an impact than just that. But when you're talking about a guy who wasn't drafted high, who got cut from a team and puts in the work and is a great teammate, that's that's the kind of guy you want.

And that that goes into building you know a winning culture i mean the vikings you know the vikings have been a very competitive team obviously going all the way back to to the first couple years of mike zimmer but um you you want to have those guys that kind of represent the winning uh mentality that that you want to have as a as a champion going forward. So I think it's great. I think it's awesome. His story, like you said, is fantastic.

When he's out there, he just seems to make something happen, always seems to make a play. So that's good to have. It's always important to have players like that. So good for him. Yeah. Brian Flores called it a joy to get to know him. I mean, that's, you know, I don't know.

I'm just always fascinated by guys who overcome their draft status, overcome early setbacks in their career and how they do it. And he's kind of a poster boy for that, but also valuable to this year's defense and going forward. And one thing that has come up is a natural question is what it means for like Louis seen does this say anything about Louis seen and I guess my answer Manny would be nothing you didn't already know I mean Louis seen after two years has not had any impact whatsoever and we'll see if he does this year at some point but it doesn't appear that he's going to because he hasn't been put into a role like Josh Metellus. They've got their starting safeties. They kept even extra

safeties for special teams, but we already knew that before they extended Metellus. We already knew how much they liked Metellus. And I guess, you know, this kind of reminds me of like a Treadwell when Adam Thielen exploded. It was like, well, it doesn't matter who it was. It just matters that you got one. I mean, right. So it doesn't matter where he got drafted. Once you're trying to win football games. Okay. Your first rounder was a bust, but you're undrafted guys, a star. It might be that way. Or it might be that maybe they don't know how long Cam Bynum is going to be a starter. They don't know how long Harrison Smith is going to play. And I think Louis Seane deserves one more training camp. He came off that horrendous injury and everything else

and also deserves us to find out through the season if he can carve out a role for himself. Sometimes we just like to declare instantly that things are busts or things didn't work out. But K.J. Osborne was like the worst player in his first year. The guy couldn't even catch a punt and had no catches and uh trey wayans like couldn't play at all in his first two years essentially so i'm always slow to say oh yeah there's a bus this didn't work out like i like

to give it a little more time with lewis scene and i don't think that this changes anything about his future. I don't either. And, and I think to your point, you got to give them some time. Also, like you said, if, if you miss a draft pick, a lot of times an important thing to do is it, can you make up for it in a later round or like in free agency? Can you find, you know, an undrafted guy that turns into like an adam theelin like you said laquan treadwell was a bust he was not good for the vikings at all but they got through it it was okay because adam theelin emerged as an undrafted guy that worked his tail off and got into the position um that he was in so i think that's the more important thing to me if you feel like you've missed on a first-round pick,

first of all, every team in the league at some point or another is going to miss on a first-round pick. It's inevitable. It just happens. Not all 32 guys that are taken in a first round are going to be super high-impact players. But I think it is important that if you miss on one of those, if you can find a way to make up for it with, you know,

a fourth or fifth or sixth round pick that ends up sort of stepping into that role that you were hoping for that first round pick, then who cares? It's fine. You know, I, I like Lewis scene. He seems like a good kid. I hope it works out for him. I hope he can find a way to kind of turn himself into the player that we hope he can be. But if he doesn't, I think the Vikings will be okay. I think they'll be able to survive it. You give Kwesi a little bit of a break because it was his first draft. And sometimes you just kind of have to you just have

to be cognizant of like okay a guy stepping into a role for the first time it's his first draft there might be some swings and misses but if you make up for it later on down the line then I think things should be fine folks this fall season is an unbelievable time for sports, and I'm always a fan of trying to catch other games when I go on the road to cover football, like baseball, hockey, basketball, just about anything. And that's why I use GameTime, the fast and easy way to buy tickets of any type of event, even music, comedy, whatever you're looking for. GameTime has last-minute flash deals on tickets, images of seats, and a low-price guarantee. You don't have to plan your tickets months out in advance. With GameTime, there are deals on tickets right up to game day. The GameTime guarantee means that you always get the best deal.

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Again, create an account, redeem code INSIDER for $20 off. Download GameTime today. today last minute tickets lowest price guaranteed you know well i mean i just think in in general that there's regrets to be had and there were probably some first guesses maybe on this show about that draft that it wasn't going to go right necessarily or that it wasn't the best use of the draft capital to trade down everything else. But I also think that what matters is the overall bigger picture. So it was not a great draft, but if you have a better draft the following season and you find other players,

and by the way, like there's a fourth round pick in that draft starting a corner. And I also don't think it's determined yet that Ed Ingram is a bust after one season at guard where we've seen many offensive linemen struggle. So again, like let's give it a little more time to decide. But I don't think that one draft for anybody is like proof that they don't know what they're doing for one, because there's drafts from everyone that have gone sideways. But I also don't think that they ruin your franchise if you've managed other parts of the roster. Well, so if you've managed the salary cap, well, this was the problem with the Rick Spielman era.

And I'm sort of chuckling at, at Matt's comment who says, can we have Rick draft every position and let Casey and Kevin pick the quarterback? Yeah. I don't think you want Rick drafting defense. Let's go through the defensive draft picks that Rick Spielman made. Josh Metellus might be the best one since 2015.

I mean, I went through this once where I think there was like 18 players drafted since 2016 on defense, and Cam Bynum was the only starter. He had a run of bad luck after drafting Eric Kendricks and Daniil Hunter and Trey Waynes in the same draft, and then had a run of bad luck with middle round draft, but how you manage the rest of it. The problem with the Spielman era was that they ran the cap all the way up to the brim every single year. They paid everyone. They paid Kyle Rudolph. They paid Kendricks.

They paid Barr. They gave out contracts to anyone who was on the 2017 team, and then when it came to missing on draft picks, it just destroyed them. And they're, and then they're ending up playing cornerbacks who are just like veterans that they grabbed out of nowhere and not guys that they were trying to draft because it went sideways. They left no room for error, really whatsoever when with the way that they handled the salary cap.

So this is where I think that they have done a really good job setting up for the future right now with the salary cap and with the situation with Kirk Cousins, where if you move on from him, then you have more room for error. Like the Cincinnati Bengals did not draft every player successfully. And neither did the Kansas City Chiefs. The Chiefs drafted a freaking running back with a 32nd overall pick for only God knows why. And yet, and the guy's a total bust

that we're talking about Jarek McKinnon playing for them in a seventh rounder. That happens, right? But how do you work around it? Well, Kansas City works around it by having the best quarterback in the world, but they also had the salary cap advantages. The Bengals have had the salary cap advantages. So that's what the Vikings are trying to do at some point. I did have other questions, by the way, and you guys asking questions in the comments has been great for the discussion, but I did have some other questions to ask you. And I wanted to throw this one out there for you, Manny, which oft-criticized player during the off season has the best chance to make a statement in week one as we

get ready for uh everyone to massively overreact the candidates baker mayfield russell wilson aaron rogers justin fields who do you think has the best chance to make a statement in week one and say haha i've proved the haters wrong even though obviously it's just week one. But, you know, that'll be the reaction right away. I'm going to go with Russell Wilson. And the reason why is simply because of the team that he's playing. I just, unlike some of the pieces that the Raiders have, I'm just not a believer in Josh McDaniels as a head coach. I just, I wouldn't trust him with a 10 foot pole. He was abysmal in Denver,

the way he handled, you know, getting the, getting the Colts job and then backing out of that at the, at the 11th hour was just completely bogus to me. And, you know, really, I mean, how good were the Raiders last year? That was a team that the year before they were, they were a playoff team with an interim head coach. And and so he takes over and they take a pretty significant step back. And, you know, and I just I think this is an opportunity with Sean Payton stepping in now to lead the way for Denver. Russell Wilson, I think, will be motivated to kind of show everybody

what you saw last year with Nathaniel Hackett is not the real Russell Wilson. And I think this is an opportunity now against a team that I don't think is going to be all that great for him to kind of show out week one. How he'll look the rest of the season, I don't know. We'll see. But I think this is a pretty big chance for him come Sunday. I think that's a great pick because, yeah, I mean, how Midwestern of you to be like, no, I like some guys on the Raiders.

Stop it, Manny. That defense is ugly. That defense is ugly. It's gnarly. It's not good. I think that team has a chance to be drafted in the quarterbacks we were talking about earlier at the very top if things don't go well for their like really well for their offense but I think with Sean Payton he's been talking all this trash this entire offseason he's been telling Russell Wilson to

stop being a politician he's been telling Nate Hackett he sucks like he I mean he's just been out there right so he better game plan his ass off in that first game and light up the Raiders for 48 points. I mean, if he doesn't, he's going to look kind of foolish. And I also think the guy didn't forget how to game plan football in the one year he was away from the NFL. So I think that is a great pick. I'm not so sure about Aaron Rodgers because he's playing Buffalo and a good Sean McDermott defense. But I do think that Justin Fields and Baker Mayfield both have a bit of a chance here. I mean, with Baker Mayfield, it's simple. Vikings corners have not played National Football League football,

and his wide receivers are great. So even if he does make some mistakes, he's, I think, going to have the possibility of throwing the ball down the field to those guys. But I also just don't trust. And every year it's like green base defense, watch out for them. And then they're just like, okay. And the way that they game planned last year or didn't against Justin Jefferson.

And he's out there like against Preston Smith or something. I don't trust their ability to play against Justin Fields in week one. That doesn't mean that I think that Fields is going to be the next, you know, Steve McNair or something. But I think in week one that also the Bears, they've had a long time to prepare. They know this defensive scheme that the Packers are playing, that they're going to have a chance there. The Packers do have an advantage in the trenches, but I think that that's mitigated a bit by Fields' running ability. So I could see Fields having a good game and then all the Bears fans being like, you see, you doubted us. You doubted Justin Fields. You haters. I could absolutely see that happening. Plus, by the way, I've noticed that the Packers receivers are kind

of banged up and that might not play play in their favor so i think i might go with justin fields i think i might go with justin fields proving the haters wrong in week one yeah the same bears fans that themselves have a lot of doubts about justin fields as soon as he has a great game week one against the packers the team that every bears fan hates then of course he's going to be the the second coming of patrick rahomes in their eyes so yeah it, he's going to be the second coming of Patrick Mahomes in their eyes. So, yeah, it's going to be pretty funny. Matt asks, what's the salary cap next year with or without Kirk Cousins? I can't say what it would be with him because I don't know what contract he would sign. But if you look at the contract signed recently by quarterbacks, it's a lot.

It's going to be a lot. I mean, yeah, he's not Joe Burrow. Nobody thinks that, but everyone who raises the ceiling pulls up everybody else. And when Daniel Jones already made 40 per year, you know, Kirk Cousins is going to be saying that guy, that guy made 40. I mean, if he wins 10 games and has a really good season, he's going to say like, I'm better than that guy. I need more than 40. So at very late, and I don't know how they would structure it, but also if they extend him,

they have to include that dead cap money somewhere. And that doesn't just go away. So they're on the hook for 28 million in dead cap next year, if he's gone. But if he's here, it's probably just as, or more expensive to keep him and definitely more expensive at some point during that situation. I mean, that's what, look, when you have to sign Jefferson, Derrissaw, and you've got

young defensive players who are coming up, I mean, there's really just not a lot of options when it comes to the quarterback. Like you have to have a cheap quarterback situation if you're trying to build a complete roster. And that's the point about Mahomes and Burrow is that you could pay them and you don't have to have a complete roster to be a Super Bowl contender but you do if it's Kirk and that's always been the trouble with Kirk it's never been and we used to struggle with this so much man you and I when we were on the radio together to like get this through it's never been that he's not clutch It's never been that he's not clutch. It's never been that he can't win on Monday night football.

It's, it's not even been that he's not like the most outward leader or anything else. It's always been, here's what you get from him production wise versus here's what he costs. And that doesn't match up. That's what it's always been. And that will continue to happen.

You know, going forward. This is, this is good from Chrisris says am i the only person seeing caleb williams dad's comments about the draft who is thinking there is a chance hey maybe he pulls like an eli manning or something i don't think so manny i think if a quarterback's going to go number one there's way and people can talk nil all they want there's way more money in it for for you if you go number one overall in the

NFL draft, you get paid a ton, ton of guaranteed money, even as a quarterback or especially as the quarterback with the rookie wage scale and the advertising capabilities. If you're a guy like him, even if you're playing in Arizona, it doesn't matter where you're playing in the NFL or through the roof. I just feel like that's something that has happened every year with a first round pick. Well, will Joe Burrow not go to Cincinnati? No, he's gone. It'll be all right. Arizona's going to do what they can to turn around their franchise's culture before that happens. And they're also going to have a new coach of Caleb Williams is choosing if that should happen. Don't you think? I mean, this is the most coach hired to get fired that I've ever seen in my life. Yeah. What better team to do it than the Arizona Cardinals, right?

Because we've seen them do it before. Yeah, I just fail to see any scenario where Caleb Williams is not the number one pick in the draft in 2024. Unless maybe he gets injured or something or whatever. I don't know. But it just seems to me like he's the front. It just seems like everybody knew Trevor Lawrence was going to be the number one pick, right? A couple of years ago, it was just a foregone conclusion. There was some talk about, wow, Zach Wilson, maybe.

It's like, no, it's going to be Trevor Lawrence. And that's the way it was going to be. I kind of feel the same way about Caleb Williams. You know, I think, you know, Drake Mays is intriguing to me. You know, I love me some Shador Sanders. But everything about Caleb Williams, his mobility, the arm talent, he's playing on a big-time program in a big-time conference that is kind of falling apart right now.

But everything about him just just reeks of number one overall pick. And I just have a hard time seeing anything, seeing anything different come on next spring. Yeah, and I think for him, like the Jaguars are a great example. The Jaguars could not have been lower as a franchise, but Trevor Lawrence went. And Joe Burrow, like Cincinnati, could not have been lower as a franchise. Joe Burrow went to Cincinnati. If you're drafted number one, if you're going to go number one overall, you cannot risk your future by coming back to college.

It's been done, but it's not always a wise thing to do if you're trying to maximize everything that you're worth and your opportunity to play in the NFL. So I, I, I think he would do that. You know, even if his dad's trying to hedge a little bit, like maybe we'll stay like, I don't know. I don't think so. I think he'll just go number one. And it's not a guarantee that it's Arizona, by the way, like somebody else could get their quarterback hurt. Who's an average team. It could be the Raiders. Like if Jimmy Garoppolo gets hurt,

as he always does, I don't know who their backup is, but the rest of that team is pretty bad. So, you know, you never know what could happen. We don't always know who the number one team is going to be. Weren't the bear,

weren't the bears like three and two to start the season and lost like 11 straight games or something. So how, or maybe that doesn't add up, whatever it was. Uh, but I remember that Greg Gabriel tweet, like you think the bears are losing all the rest of their games.

And then they did. Uh, Todd says, if the opportunity presented itself, would you trade future draft capital to move up for a quarterback? My answer is absolutely yes, because you have superstars at the other positions and then you can fill in the rest with free agency.

If you had nothing, if you had, oh, that's a good point. Classic Big Ten quarterback, Caleb Williams, by the way, that we're talking about for classic Big Ten franchise USC. But I think without hesitation, you trade up because you have a megastar left tackle. You have a megastar wide receiver. You have young players that you've drafted. And so I think that that's one where it's time to make that trade up to get them. And then with the situation at quarterback, you kind of have to do that.

Last thing for you, Manny, last thing. Which week one matchup is getting no hype whatsoever, but has a chance to be a wild game? And also what game as an add-on if there's one that you think has the potential to show us the most bogus results versus the rest of the year so something that happens and everyone goes oh my gosh what and then like just like Chicago beating San Francisco like the most Chicago beating San Francisco last year thing to happen so do you remember I'll go with go with the second question of that first.

Do you remember, it must have been about five years ago now, and I think it was me, you, and Judge Zolgat, we were on the radio, and we were talking about how, remember when Tampa Bay, the bad, this was pre-Tom Brady, Bruce Arians, Tampa Bay. This was Dirk Cutter uh led the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Ryan Fitzpatrick went into the Superdome week one and beat the Saints they beat him like 45 to 40 or something like that some wild shootout game and everybody was just kind of like wow you know what's wrong with the Saints what's wrong Sean Payton and Drew Brees

what's going on with them? Maybe the Bucs are pretty good. And then, like, the Bucs went like 4-12 or something, and Dirk Cutter got fired. I don't think the head coach of this team was going to get fired after one season. I kind of have that weird feeling about the Texans and Ravens too. Like maybe this is a game, like I don't think the Texans are going to be very good at all

this year. And I think that's fine. I think D'Amico Ryans ultimately will be a pretty good head coach, but they just don't really have a lot right now. I, it wouldn't surprise me if they just go into Baltimore and just like C.J. Stroud just kind of like lights it up. And even if even if the Ravens ultimately win the game, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Texans just like keep that game close because the Ravens, the Ravens are good. But sometimes you just see some weird things happen in Baltimore, some weird games. And I think that that's a game that, that could be pretty,

I think it kind of falls into both, both questions there with a game that's kind of wild and crazy, maybe high scoring with two, you know, young dynamic quarterbacks. And, but I also think it's going to be a game where it's like, well, the Texans aren't actually this good. And I love that selection because that's one where literally no one in the world would pick the Texans. And if they won, it would be totally shocking, but also could probably not be representative of what happens over a long season. The Texans might win seven and the Ravens will probably be in the playoffs, but for week one and week one alone, kind of a you never know.

And I like what the Texans are doing with D'Amico Ryans. I like their whole approach, except for trading that draft pick. A little questionable there to Arizona. Yeah, Chris mentions the Eli Manning thing. And the Eli Manning thing happened a really long time ago. And I know that we love going back in history. But the more recent history is even when a franchise looks pretty down and out, when they have the number one overall pick, usually

the player just goes there and turns around the franchise. So it would have to be really, really bad for him to do something like that. I would be very surprised. Also, I think the leverage is gone for all rookies. like you get the rookie wage scale it is what it is i think it would be very tough for caleb williams to try to pull the same thing like if you're drafted and you don't go there those there's no usfl like back in the day when jim kelly did it uh there's there's no leverage that they'll just say all right well you just sit then um so i don't know i mean it's possible's possible that he could see Arizona number one and be like, I'm not doing it.

But just recent history with Burrow and Lawrence is I'll go and I'll make that franchise great. So anyway, my pick for this is also the same game for both answers, which is Jacksonville and the Indianapolis Colts. Again, with a rookie quarterback, Anthony Richardson, you could see him running his way to something crazy. And also, the Jaguars have just had so much hype, Manny. And when a team has a ton of hype in the offseason,

expectations are super high, you can see them coming out a little bit tight and a little bit like, okay, we're facing this bad team. We got to blow them out right away. And just being a little too antsy and anxious where Indianapolis plays a little more fast and loose, finds a way to shock everybody, win the game. And then Indianapolis finishes with five wins because they're not that good. And the Jaguars win the division easily. And I could see that happening where it's getting no hype, but it's kind of a crazy game. And then also it is

not what actually is going to play out. But I got to say, I mean, week one, I'm really interested to see these rookie quarterbacks. Like I'm really interested to see Anthony Richardson on an NFL field, CJ Stroud, Bryce Young. It's a good year for that. I mean, with all three of these guys coming into the league and playing right away. I'm really pumped to see Bryce Young. You know, I've still, I know things didn't work out in the end in Indianapolis for your guy, Frank Reich, but I do think he did some good things in Indianapolis. And I'm just curious to see how he does with, this is kind of the first time Frank Reich

is going to have a young quarterback of his own to develop. You know, when he went into Indianapolis, he had Andrew Luck for that for Lux last year in the league. So he had a guy that was already well established. But now he's going to get a shot to kind of develop his own young player. And, you know, I I'm a little worried if, you know, Bryce Young is going to hold up, you know, if that if that small frame is going to hold up. But if he does, man, I think he's going to be really, really good. That guy plays with he plays with an edge. He's got great instincts.

He can move around and make things happen. So I'm really excited to see how Bryce Young is going to look in Carolina. All of these guys really see Jay Stroud in Houston, Anthony Richardson, I just love and I'm really rooting for. So it's going to be fun, man. And I'm glad that we're going to see all these guys play early, too. That's going to be really fun. Yeah, I agree. Matthew says Hutchinson is eating up the Chiefs' offensive line.

He's going to feast on the Vikings' interior. That's probably true. Also, we were talking about draft luck. The Jaguars draft Trayvon Walker, kind of a surprise to everybody, not Aiden Hutchinson. That's draft luck. You just lucked into it. They did nothing to deserve this great player other than just the other team

probably made a mistake with who they picked. But I also agree with you. Aiden Hutchinson is a beast. So anyway, well, we're going to go watch the rest of that game. I haven't installed the TV like in front of me yet. For future Thursday night episodes, you might see my eyes shooting over at a television that's down here in the studio. So that'll happen. But I'm going to go watch the rest of this game now.

Manny, thanks for your time on a football opening Thursday. And thanks for everybody for listening and playing along here. Well, you know, the game is going on, so hopefully you enjoyed the chatter while that was happening and we'll see how the game ends. But thanks again, Manny. And we will talk again on Monday night. So I'm excited to see you then. Sounds good, my friend.