Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Last Vikings-Packers fan questions and former Packer Mike Wahle tells John Randle stories

Episode Date: September 10, 2022

Matthew Coller answers Viking fan questions about Vikings-Packers, including one of the strangest scenarios ever presented on the show and then former Packer Mike Wahle joins to talk about his memories of Vikings-Packers and this Sunday's game. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, the final episode before Vikings and Packers. And I've got an interview coming up later in the show with Mike Wall, former Green Bay Packer. But you guys left so many great questions the other day. I was not able to get to all of them on the last Fans Only podcast. So I wanted to answer a few questions first and then get to Mike Wall. He played left guard back in the day, played against John Randall, played with Brett Favre, and also does a podcast now. So we break down the upcoming game as well.

So let's just get right into these fan questions. Then Mike Wall of former Green Bay Packer a little later in the show. Let's start off with Kyle. Kyle says, I just got done listening to your last fans only podcast with Packers questions. Your comment about the Packers having one or two more years left with Rogers, then dropping a veteran quarterback into his place put an unpleasant thought in my head. Is there any world where we see Kirk Cousins join the Packers in one or two years time if he he does not, quote, earn the right to retire a Viking.

The Packers have historically good line play, head coach who uses wide zone bootleg, strong running game, and the possibility of a good defense. Seems like that may be a situation Kirk would want to drop into for the last few years of his career if his contract demands can be met by the Packers. Not quite a Favre-level betrayal, but it would be Vikings fans' luck if he went there and was successful. Love the pod. Keep up the good work.

Well, thank you, Kyle. And I am amazed by you guys always finding ways, even if it's several years out in the future, to think of how you could be ironically screwed over. I mean, it's, it is incredible. It is, it's, it's, it's his own skill in itself that only Vikings fans understand that if you met somebody and started talking football with them, you could probably figure out very quickly if they were a Vikings fan or not, just based on their ability to think of the craziest possible scenario where it goes really bad for you in the kind of most bizarre or funny or weird kind of way.

And Kirk Cousins eventually becoming a Green Bay Packer and then eventually winning there would definitely qualify as weird and ironic and classic Viking stuff. Uh, the timelines do match up. I'm not going to tell you that you're crazy for thinking about this potential scenario, especially because it is the type of coach that came from a Ryan, uh, Tannehill in Tennessee, right? That's where Matt LaFleur was before. And it was able to have some success there with a guy who runs bootlegs, runs the ball, hits on deep passes. You know, Kirk Cousins kind of is their type of quarterback.

But I would also say, like, let's just focus on today and all the ironic ways you can lose on Sunday. And I did get many of those questions as well. Like what, like who's the most random receiver that could beat us and things like that. So, uh, yeah, I mean, it's a couple of years down the road, who knows where everything is going to be at. Right. I mean, Kirk cousins could be a Viking for life. If he plays really, really well this year gels with Kevin O'Connell and they don't draft a quarterback and they could sign him to a longer term extension and then he's your guy.

But if that doesn't happen, then we're talking about one more year of Cousins and maybe sitting a rookie quarterback or just trading Cousins away. And I would say that that's what makes it unlikely is that there's a scenario where Cousins goes 8-9 this year. They say, okay, lesson learned, time to move on. There's another team that's desperate for a quarterback. That team ends up trading for Cousins for, I don't know, a third-round pick or something like that.

And then the Vikings draft Bryce Young or Anthony Richardson or whatever quarterback is toward the top of the draft and they just all move on. But if they did let him just straight up play out his contract, which just doesn't seem likely because like, why wouldn't you try to get ahead of it, try to get another draft pick and so forth. But if they did feel like their roster was strong enough and they didn't want to just put everything on the back of a rookie and historically sitting your guy is not a terrible idea, especially if it's a raw prospect,

you know, I think Anthony Richardson might be a little more on the raw side if he's the guy. I mean, we're getting way deep down the road here. So, you know, we won't spend too much more time on it,

but just thinking about this scenario with cousins that a lot rests on this year for his future, because if it's not great, they're probably trading him. If it's in the middle, they have themselves a difficult choice, but probably hedge by bringing him back and then drafting a quarterback. And if it goes really bad, then they'll just draft a quarterback and move on. But if it goes really good, they could potentially keep Cousins for a much longer time than just next year. So a lot resting on this season for Kirk Cousins. And of course, that begins on Sunday against the Packers.

So thanks so much for listening, Kyle. You're a twisted man, but I appreciate it. That's what this show is for. All right, this comes from Kelly S. And lots of numbers on Twitter. I heard a lot of the players saying this new training staff that Kevin O'Connell brought over from the Rams and that there are a lot of different training and nutrition methods

the players seem to have all bought in. What's your opinion? Love the pod. Thank you very much, Kelly. My opinion is that under Mike Zimmer, I think that they were really antiquated in the way that they handled player health. That's my understanding of things. And not only that, but when they talk about a culture of fear, I don't know that that just means being yelled at after a mistake on the field. I think that maybe that also implies that players were afraid to admit they had injuries

and needed treatment because they thought that the coach was going to get upset with them. I think that's a possibility that it didn't just refer to that. I can think of a lot of instances where players were pushed out on the field when maybe they shouldn't have been, you know, in the Tyler Dunn piece where Terrence Newman is talking about, you know, guys trying to play through injuries and things like that. You could think of a lot of instances and it's football, but a lot of instances, maybe too many where the guy maybe needed one more week. And I'll give you an example. Last year, Adam Thielen went to the podium and said that he was told that his high ankle sprain, I believe it was healed faster than

anyone they'd ever seen. And then what happened? He went out the next week and re-aggravated it. Does that sound right? Like, it just doesn't sound right to me. There was a pretty serious injury in the Minneapolis Miracle game to Anderson Dejo, and he played the next week. And there were some problems in that game with the deep coverage. Like, I don't know if those things are connected, but it really felt like that was a part of what the players wanted changed was they wanted a more modern approach to this. They looked at the

Rams and said, man, that's a lot of healthy players over there in Los Angeles and wanted that approach. And I think it ties into how they handled the preseason, how many veteran days they gave during training camp. And if there is a sacrifice that there's a little rust, it's a long season. And you would take that even if it's an important game, it's a long season and you would take that. So I think that the players, at least my impression is that they are thrilled with this. And I, and if there's one thing coaching wise, if you were to say all right everything else is going to be the same Donatello's not going to be better the offensive approach isn't necessarily going to be better or completely game-changing or totally transform Justin Jefferson or Kirk

Cousins but you can pick anything else I think I would pick the health because how many players you could keep on the field is an indicator of how far you're going to go. Paul Hodowanek did some numbers on this and it was like no surprise that most of the teams that made the playoffs were the healthiest teams in the NFL. So I think this is a big deal. And when you look at this team going into this game, how many players are out? BC Johnson, total bad luck ACL tear in the preseason. Aside from that, everybody else is ready to go. I think that speaks to how they have handled the health stuff. There's no, the thing about it is like, there's no take.

There's no like opinion or hot take or real deep discussion. It's just, this is good. Like this is good. You wanted to modernize things and this is one area you definitely did it. Okay. This comes from Alex. As we approach another season with Kirk Cousins, I just can't seem to get very excited this year. Sure. I'm excited to see Kevin O'Connell's new offense and watch the Darius and Daniil Hunter get after opposing quarterbacks, but I just have this terrible feeling this Vikings team will be just good enough

to run it back again, and I truly have no confidence Kirk will ever win more than one playoff game in a given year. In my estimation, the team goes 9-8 or 10-7 with a fairly forgiving schedule, and the Wilfs tell the front office

to keep Kirk Cousins for another year to develop into KOC's system. Another extension? Yeesh. But I think we're no closer to winning the Super Bowl, much less being a serious contender in the NFC. Would you talk me off this mediocrity ledge or am I on to something here? I just hate the idea that grinding to 10 wins and a quick playoff exit is proof that the team is close. To me, this is the team's ultimate ceiling with Kirk. Well, I'm glad that you took the approach of talk you out of for this, because that's a pretty depressing thing to lay out there right before the first game

where everybody's super jacked and they want to see the new Kevin O'Connell era, which again is sort of like classic Viking fan laying out the worst possible thing that could happen. Yeah. I mean, so I, I just don't have a good feel for what they think the direction is, right? Because when everybody got fired, it seemed very clear that the path was to change it all, move on from everybody, draft a quarterback or wait another year to draft a quarterback, but have kind of a Marcus Mariota type of deal in Atlanta to take that approach that I thought when they moved on from Zimmer and Spielman, it was going to be all new people. It was going to be all new, like all new stars in the positions or draft picks playing and, and guys from the 2021 draft class, instead of being cut, actually getting a lot of chances

to play, to see if there's anything there. And instead here we are with like Adam Thielen, Harrison Smith, Eric Hendricks, all the same type of guys. And of course, Kirk Cousins is central to that. So that was a different right from the outset. And I don't think anybody really knows like what their five-year plan is with the quarterback position. Like how good does Kirk Cousins have to be this year for them to say, let's sign him to a three-year or four-year extension and make sure that he does retire a Viking? How good would he have to be? Or is it entirely like the 2021 draft class where they're going to look at it and then get to the end of the road and decide, is this good enough for us? And it does matter that this draft class has good quarterbacks.

And the last draft class had one first round quarterback and he went late in the first round. That is an A factor. So we can't really conclude entirely that the Vikings said, oh yeah, Kirk's our guy. We want to just keep sticking with Kirk forever because there wasn't really another option aside from Kenny Pickett being the only first round talent in the entire draft. So that kind of throws us off as we're trying to figure out what they want to do there. Like when they straight up passed on Mac Jones, it was like, oh, okay. Well, even though they tried to trade for Justin Fields,

maybe they didn't really make a legitimate effort to get another quarterback. But in this case, we don't know if they would have or not. I tend to think that if Malik Willis had been the type of talent to be top 10, that the Vikings would have considered it much more closely than they did in a draft where there was no one to pick outside of one guy in Kenny Pickett, who was drafted well after the Vikings' original first-round pick. So all of that is just to say that as we go along on this journey together, I don't know any better than you do if they are looking at Kirk and saying, hey, this is probably it with him almost no matter what,

unless we go to the NFC Championship, or whether if they got back to the playoffs, they would say, you know what? We were close. Just a couple more pieces. If they, I mean, if they win the division at 11 and six or something, and the offense ranks in the top 10, it's going to be really hard for them to say,

on to the next quarterback, right? And I think that's exactly what you're getting at. But also who in the world would go into this season and say, you don't want to see them make the playoffs. So for me, that's why I've kind of narrowed it down with the expectations that are right for this team, which is 11, 12 wins. If you get there, that means that you are a legitimate Super Bowl contender for the first time with Kirk Cousins. And then if they decided to run it back, I would be a lot less critical because they

proved that they could do it, that they proved that Kevin O'Connell's offense could take him to a next level as a total offense offense that they could be a legitimate contender. But even then, even in that scenario, if you go one and done in the playoffs, it's not like you get to just hit the repeat button and try it all again. That means another year older for the entire roster. So I think that, yeah, you're going to have to kind of just ride the wave here, man. I don't know if I'm talking you out of that feeling as much as to say, I don't know if any of us knows how this is going to play out,

which is what makes it so interesting that it is a different situation and it is a really good spot. It's a better offensive line. It's better receivers. It's an easier schedule. It's all laid out right there. So I think that what this year will be about is kind of what we thought last year was going to be about last year was, Hey, it's the final chance

to kind of show us that it's possible, but now it's this year that this is coming to a decision point. And at least we'll have that decision at the end of that this year. And we'll constantly be assessing that throughout the season. That's the big discussion of the year is, was it good enough? Is this going to be a fit for the future? Or were all those things that we said during training camp about being more comfortable and getting more support? Were all of those kind of just things that get said in the off season and pick an MVP picks that get made.

I don't know. I don't know. But I do think as far as talking you off the mediocrity ledge for this year, the best case you can make is look around the NFC. If the Rams aren't that good and Trey Lance isn't that great, man, there's not a ton of competition like every once in a while you just get everything to come together and you give yourself a chance and with drew brees gone who knows what tom brady's gonna look like this year i would assume good but like it at some point age catches up you know i if there's gonna be a year where you're going to surprise everybody because the NFC is down, this year would be the year. So you could tell me in a follow-up email whether that was effective or not. All right. This from Eli S and a bunch of numbers. Who said that random accounts with a bunch of numbers were problematic? Not in the fans only podcast. All right. Eli S says with the Packers,

the Darius Smith lined up all over the defense, outside linebacker, inside linebacker, defensive end and defensive tackle. Has he been doing this in practice? Do you think he'll do this in the game? The answer is yes. And the other answer is yes.

And it's one of the most, I think advantageous things for the Minnesota Vikings that they have going on against the Green Bay Packers. Is that Z'Darrius Smith will line up everywhere and anywhere at all times and attack weaknesses. So, Everson Griffin didn't need to do this because he was so terrific at playing his position. But with Zedarius, that extra versatility allows you to say, if Bakhtiari plays, at the moment, it doesn't look like he will, but if Bakhtiari plays, then you can look at the interior of the offensive line for the Packers and say, it's third and seven. Now you're rushing over a guard. That's really good for them. I think it's one of the biggest pluses and the best things they were able to do in the offseason.

If you're going to try to stack up the roster and win the division, do it with a player who I know has some injury concerns for sure. But somebody who can be a massive impact player can take over games by himself. There was one game that he had in 2019 where he had 12 pressures, which is like one out of every three times that the opposing quarterback is dropping back. One player is getting in his face. So, I mean, that is going to be like, I will have my eyes on where Zedaria Smith lines up all throughout Sunday's game. All right. This from Taylor via the email. Let's see. I had a random alternate reality

injury question, which Vikings team would have more wins this season, Jefferson without cousins or cousins without Jefferson for arguments sake. Let's say that Case Keenum takes over for Cousins and B.C. Johnson steps in for J.J. What is the record for the winning team's record and why? So you mean, okay, so if you took Cousins out and instead of playing Nick Mullins, you played like the best backup in the league or one of them, which is Case Keenum. And you took Justin Jefferson out and you replace him with a replacement player at wide receiver.

I have wondered to myself before how many wins the Vikings would have had 2018 through 2021 had Case Keenum been their quarterback with the same version of Stefan Diggs and Justin Jefferson and Adam Thielen and so forth. I think Keenum was better at reacting to a bad offensive line than Kirk Cousins has been. I think that he galvanized people around him. And I think that if you're talking about a quarterback wanting to be aggressive, well, you know, Case Keenum was overly aggressive at times and drew the ire of his coach because of that. I think that, hmm, I mean, but Cousins is better. Like there's no question that

Cousins is a more talented quarterback than Case Keenum. I do just wonder if the volatility of Keenum, the fact that he is just willing to air it out and everything worked in 2017, but that also means that everything might not work and you could end up with a bunch of interceptions and win five games or something where with cousins, if Jefferson is taken away, I think that they probably win seven games, maybe eight. And if Keenum has the full Thielen Jefferson, this defense, they probably win seven or eight. I mean, yeah, I really think that Jefferson is that valuable.

And I think his agent will probably know that as well when they go into negotiations, that the high end of the Vikings is more likely than not what 11 wins. We could kind of agree that that's the high end of the Vikings right now and that they will win three less games at least if they don't have Jefferson and part of it is if this was Patrick Mahomes it would just be a different story right but when we've seen Kirk Cousins have to adapt sometimes without his star wide receivers which has been very few times, but when he's had to, when Jefferson was out the first couple of games of 2020,

2019 had some moments with Adam Thielen out, but overall, I think there were some unimpressive performances. And then last year, his play dropped pretty severely without Adam Thielen. I think that Cousins is just a guy that needs everything kind of clicking, right? And 2017 in Washington, he lost his top two receivers. They brought in Josh Doxson, a replacement level player, and then he drops to a seven

win quarterback. I think that it's probably the case there. And with Keenum, if everything went right, the guy could definitely win double digits if he has Jefferson and Thielen. But I also think five wins is possible there. So there's more versatility. If Jefferson went out week one and was gone for the season, I would pick them to win seven or eight games with really no other options. It would either be seven or eight and that's it. That's how I would view it. But if Kirk went down and they traded for Case Keenum, I would say they could turn this season around and have a great year or this could be a disaster.

And I think both of those possibilities are equal. But that's a fun question. It's a fun scenario. And I'm not sure. I'm not sure what exactly it's supposed to tell us. Like the thought usually the thought experiment is sort of to reveal something, but maybe it just tells you how valuable the receivers are and the fact that you probably can drop in, this was kind of my opinion before, another quarterback into the spot and have them succeed just based on the fact

that you have these two unbelievable receivers. And we see on a pretty regular basis that average quarterbacks can be elevated by that. But by the same logic, you should get more out of Kirk Cousins. So yeah, it's an interesting and fun question though. Thank you for that. All right, let's go to Derek on Twitter, at Derek Moran on Twitter.

It seems like both teams' offensive lines will be overwhelmed by the opposing D-lines. Will the biggest factor be either the Packers' run defense, the Packers containing the Vikings' wide receivers, or whether the Packers' wide receivers can get open, or the Packers' run game? Hmm. Yes. All of those. Definitely all of those. Hmm. Let's see. I guess if i'm ranking them i would say that the packers containing the vikings wide receivers is number one because if jefferson goes off and theelin goes off i don't think kevin o'connell's gonna be like all right pack it in

boys let's just hand the ball off i think he he's going to keep going back to Thielen and Jefferson. And, uh, that could be a really long day. And we saw that last year that when the Packers could not slow down the Vikings receivers, it was a very long day for them and ended up in a big Vikings win at the time. Yeah. I think that there's nothing like when you can have an explosive passing game, the frustration, the other team feels those, you know, sometimes are quick drives, which result in the other team having to get right back out there and not be able to catch its breath. Uh, you know, I mean, it just, I think that, you know, you can feel on the road overwhelmed when the other team is just lighting you up with the passing game and not that Aaron Rodgers won't know what to do, but he doesn't have his guy to lean on.

Like, oh, we're down 14. Throw it to Devante every play. Like he doesn't have that now. Whether he has the connection with his wide receivers, I would rank second on this. And then certainly the run defenses and running games after that. But I do think that, you know, there's a huge, bigger advantage and a huge advantage overall for the Packers if they run. Because play actions with Rodgers are super dangerous. That's what's going to help those wide receivers get open easily

is if there's these huge holes in the defense because of play action. And, I mean, we've just seen it where the Vikings got run over a lot last year and couldn't find a way to get off the field. And if you give Rogers that advantage, I mean, it's absolutely enormous because he has something bigger to overcome. Like if Delvin Cook can't run in this game, Jefferson will get open. Thielen will get open. Irv Smith, KJ, they will. They're going to find ways to be there if the Vikings can't run the ball effectively. I don't know that that's true for Green Bay.

Great question, though. All right, this is at TuffyTime74. What are you hearing from the scouting community regarding Jordan Love? Any improvement or long-term projection? Yeah, I don't know. I really don't know what to think about Jordan loves. Um, I didn't watch any of the preseason games where he got in.

I've followed their reporters who said that he looked a lot better in terms of training camp, but is he their long-term guy? Hard to say because we just have seen nothing from him except for, uh, that start last year that didn't look very good but like who can judge out of that I never really believed that you know Jordan Love was going to be the next Mahomes because he had physical abilities and so forth but I also think it is a great test case for someone actually developing we have so rarely seen more than one year and it's very rare that we even see one year, where a quarterback gets to sit.

Well, Love looked horrendous early on, according to all the reporters in Green Bay, and then looks way more comfortable now as he's been in the system for a few years. And I guess you do have to wonder about what the contract situation has done, where it's so advantageous to have someone on their rookie deal, what that's done to ever developing any quarterbacks. Cause pretty much if you're not great right away, like move aside and yeah, well I guess we'll have to see with Jordan love,

but you know, if you're, if you're worrying about Jordan love going into week one, like there's other stuff that's much more concerning. So I don't know if he'll be their future guy or not. If I had to guess, I would say they would try it. But also if another option came on that they would do that instead. From at purple Jeff 777.

Do you think we see a lot of Irv Smith against the Packers? I wonder about that. I really do. Um, I, I don't know. I don't know. Uh, because I'm, it's a lot to overcome, uh, for him. I mean, I think the players are better than ever in the existence of football, of coming back from injuries, of staying ready, of preparing.

They have so many resources at their hands, and it wasn't like his legs that were an issue. So he could stay in shape. He could run the routes. He could do a lot of things at practice, but it's not the same as doing reps over and over and over and over, day in and day out. So he's got a lot of catching up to do.

If I were to guess, I would think that he gets off to a little bit of a slow start here to begin the season. I just think that it's been a long time since he's played football. Kind of reminds me a little bit of like Latavius Murray got hurt in 2017. And then it took a few weeks, but then he got back. And once he was in rhythm he played

pretty well throughout the rest of that season maybe the same sort of thing like keep the expectations a little lower maybe we see some johnny munt and then as the season goes along but it would be a huge boost for them if he could come out and just light that thing up okay uh maybe we do one more here let's, let's see. Yeah, probably one more. Okay. And then we'll get to our interview with Mike wall. Uh, all right. From at average Vikings fan. Very simple. Are we going to be able to stop the run with two safeties deep? They are in the best position that they can be to do that, whether they do that or not execution wise, they really should. They really should. Delvin Tomlinson and Harrison Phillips,

two of the higher graded players at their position when it comes to run stopping. I mean, you have a good offensive line, if healthy, and you have great running backs for Green Bay. So I can't guarantee you that they will stop A.J. Dillon because a lot of times, even if you play it right, that man runs over you or Aaron Jones runs around you. And we've seen that before in previous years. Theoretically, though, they should be able to handle playing two deep safeties because of what they have in the trenches with those two run stuffers. And really last year, Michael Pierce was not an injury we discussed a lot because the building was burning down. But Michael Pierce was a big injury for them last year. They were the worst team in the league in terms of expected points added against the run. And I think a major part of that was having to play Sheldon Richardson at defensive tackle a lot when he really should have been a situational rusher.

And then they kicked him out to defensive end because they were so short at that position. And they were just getting steamrolled with Armond Watts in there. Who's, you know, I still think a good pass rusher, but not a run stuffer at all. And maybe that played into it. Although Ross Blacklock isn't really that either. You know, James Lynch

wasn't really ready to be that guy last year. I don't know that he ever will be. They need those two to stay healthy. And if they do, I think they can be two of the biggest like Lynch pins to the defense. It can all kind of stay glued together if the opposing team can't steamroll them. All right, folks, enjoy it. Enjoy it. Football is back for you. I know that these weeks against the Packers are just pure stress and everybody gets excited for football, but not necessarily Vikings football because it's so stressful. I know. I know how you guys feel. I follow a lot of you on Twitter who, uh, you know, are kind of freaking out cause it's week one against the Packers, but take a minute,

smell the fall air on Sunday and appreciate that football has returned. And we will have so much to discuss when I talk to you again. So here's my conversation with former Packer, Mike Wall, and we will see you on the other side of week one. Folks, football season is here, and you need more gear to represent Minnesota football. Adam Thielen, Randy Moss, John Randall, the Purple People Eaters, Bud Grant,

all great designs from SodaStick that you can put on hoodies, hats, t-shirts. Go to SodaStick.com, S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com. Use the promo code PurpleInsider to get 15% off your purchase. Former Green Bay Packer, Mike mike wall what a great name for a left guard mike wall i mean that's just i feel like at some point i hope this happened for you that john madden must have been saying you don't make old mike walls they're left guard blocking for dorsey levin's did that happen at some point i don't know if madden so acheman was kind of a bigger fan of me i think madden just because of eris but i'll tell you one thing that is true. I screwed up – is it Daniil Hunter? I said, like, Daniel or something yesterday, and people got furious at me.

And I just started giggling because I remember when I – I was in Green Bay for seven years. I started for six years. So that's, what, six games a year plus – you know, if you include preseason. So for six games a year for six years I ran out of the tunnel and they they mentioned my name and they would say you know starting left guard Mike whale Wally never wall and so I remember one time it made the it made like the airwaves and my uncles and everything called my dad they're like they still can't get it right like after he

finally made so one of us finally made it and he still can't get it right. So. It's tough, man. Well, that's okay. I've been a Collier for my entire life. So I always have to tell when I go on radio stations and stuff, it's like switch, put on your dog. And for you, it's like, no, no, wall, not whale. So you're not. Yeah. It's the shaving. It's the shaving. It's the electric shaver. I need to drop the E half of the family dropped the E when they moved over off, you know,

when they got off the ship, they're like, let's drop the, this is silly. Apparently my side was a, uh, they have nots. Yeah. We lost the eye somewhere for Collier, but anyway, so you played for the Packers from, uh, 98 until 2004, probably the best rookie of the 98 season i don't remember anybody else who came in that year that was so yeah it was viney was first round pick that year well you know i mean the only thing that you could say about the 98 season is that randy moss got drafted i mean like it's really relevant to you see north like it certainly wasn't me but uh i i just remember randy got drafted that year monday night football, he dropped three on us. And then of course the next year we spent our first three draft picks on

quarterbacks and we didn't, and we didn't hit until the third one. The third one was the one that ended up being shut down. Mike McKenzie ended up being the guy, but it was funny. I just remember going, Jesus, this kid Marshall's pretty good. I'm glad that you picked up on where I was going with that. So let me ask you a question about this. Do you resent Randy Moss to this day for demolishing the Green Bay Packers? Or were you just so in awe as a football guy that you're like, hey, you got to respect it?

I don't know if I've ever resented anybody for being good at football. You know, I'm a football fan like anybody else. I think it's like no there's so many I got to play professional football I was pretty good for my time I was pretty good but there's so few people in the world that are that good at anything that when you're like when you get to see him it's a treat man it's like you know I'm not buying a ticket because I'm playing against the guy but you know it's like playing against John Randall like he was such a good player you're kind of just like man it's amazing that you can be around guys that are that good at something. Yeah. I did want to ask you about going up against Randall. Well, that's fair enough. I think there,

there probably are some players that maybe still are annoyed with other guys who beat them like during there, you know, I mean maybe that's more of a fan thing, but when it, when it comes to John Randall, I mean, to me, one of the most energetic, exciting players ever. But you and I were joking before we started recording about my size difference versus an NFL offensive lineman like yourself. I have been near John Randall. This man is not big. Like, I am not intimidated by his size. What was so hard to go up against him when he was a guy so undersized?

Well, he's, so he might be undersized from a height standpoint, but that's actually, it's like Aaron Donald right now is under when you, when Aaron Donald went to the senior bowl, I was there and everybody almost like dismissed him on the first day. Cause he looked, he looked like he was out of place. And then he just started tossing every offensive line this way. And that to the point where they had to like take him out of drills and John Randall was kind of the same thing right and he had leverage he has a ridiculous power and explosiveness and because he was playing against like Randall McDaniel every day getting his butt kicked for a couple years he was one of those guys that had not one not two not three but multiple pass rush moves in sequence that he could just do over and over and over and just kind of go into the Rolodex every time so you didn't know what you were going to get. And you match that with really high-level intensity, love for the game,

and just there's no fear in that guy at all. Like John Randall's one of those guys, and this happens with certain positions, where it's almost like you see a striker in soccer. They don't care if they miss 10 times because they know if they get one goal, they're going to be a Hall of Famer. John Randall understood the math. He's like, you know, if I make this, you know, fight with Brett Favre, a big deal. And I get a sack of game. If I beat a guy three times a game, I'm going to get one knockdown, one sack. I'm going

to be a hall of famer. Like he got that. So if he didn't win one or two times, he wasn't really beat up about it. Some guys get, you know, kind of messed up about it in their head. That guy was nails all game long. He was tough to play against. What was the trash talk like during those games with Randall? So you got to remember, I was really young, and he was kind of in his prime. So the trash talk was probably one way. I just remember the first time I lined up against him, it was like the first third down of the game was in Lambeau. And he was a dude that would like read the media guide.

And my nickname from college was Beagle after this All-American at Navy. And so I just remember third down and eight in the huddle, I'm in the huddle and sit there and all of a sudden it's like, Beagle. And I was like, oh, oh shoot. I turned around. I was like, yeah, I'll be there in a minute. Like try to act tough. And I went back in the huddle. John Randall, third date, he's coming to get me. They used to say, hey, John, before I got there, they used to say in in green bay like it was a joke like hey we're throwing hobson free technique in minnesota because like he's unblockable you know he was unbelievable man he was really really good yeah yeah yeah and uh kind of um

i think one of the most unique stories really ever of a guy so undersized undrafted came from a really tough circumstance and then becomes not only that, but still hangs around and tweets about how he's playing golf in purple colors here in Minnesota. So a cool story for John Randall. I was going to ask you because we'll get into this game and everything else, but just like, what is the best part of being on the field? Whether it was the, the old Metrodome, which I'm sure was a privilege to play on that turf, but the games at Lambeau as well. I think that there's some more juice to this matchup than there is against the Bears,

maybe because the Bears have not been relevant all that often. These two teams for such a long time, it's like the Vikings kind of always have something there and the Packers always have a Brett Favre or Aaron Rodgers that's going to make them relevant and great. What was it from a player standpoint that got you pumped to play the Vikings? Well, first off, the old Metrodome was the hardest place in the league to play, hands down. I remember Mike Flanagan and I used to go out before the game, four hours before the game, kind of screw around,

throw some tobacco and play catch and everything. And I remember one time we, we saw them setting up the speakers underneath the stands behind our bench. And we went over and we just tore all the wires out and everything. And it was actually quieter that, that, that, that game, but they pumped in. I mean, it was just imagine this, you're watching the film the next day and the camera is so much motion. The camera's actually shaking.

You got to like pause the camera and take a drink of water. That's why you're going to get, like, seasick. And so that part of just playing in there with that intensity and what it does to the snap count, like, any time you're in that kind of environment, everything's heightened. Anxiety and everything is heightened, I think, in everybody on the sidelines and in the game. When we think about it from a Packers standpoint,

and guys don't want to hear this, but, you know, for us, Packers are, you know, like Lambeau Field's the Yankee Stadium of the NFL. Packers are a storied franchise, and it was really, I kind of went through different phases in my time with Green Bay, but who was your main rival? Was it Minnesota or was it Chicago? It was never Detroit, but it was in Minnesota or Chicago. Minnesota just had those really, really good teams playing against, you know, playing against that offensive system that had, you know, Dante, Chris Carter, and Robert Smith and that offensive line that had so many great players on it.

Trying to keep up with those guys and then, you know, from a personal standpoint, having to play against John Randall in particular and Chris Hovand a little bit later on. And that was a real tough matchup and just something I look forward to. Yeah. As you went along there, the Vikings defenses got a little bit more porous at times and open. You lose one guy like John Randall though, and you just can't make up for him. I mean,

you just really, you really cannot put a, it would be like, you know, it would be like taking Aaron Donald off the, off the ramps. They're not winning Superbowls. I mean,

it is what it is. those are difference makers and on a level that that most guys don't attain and it was a it was a different time in the league where like now every owner is just a trillionaire or something and at that time minnesota's ownership was a little spotty and i don't think they wanted to necessarily pay everyone to, to fix the defense, like current ownerships in the NFL do. I wonder what just being in the huddle with Favre in games like that is like, cause I, you know, it's so funny when we talk about Favre in Minnesota, it's, you know, with a lot of reverence in the same way it is for green Bay. It's like the one thing we can agree on.

We can agree that Wisconsin has better cheese. No one's debating that. And we can agree that Favre was really, truly something amazing. What was it like for you to be in the huddle with him? Well, I think, you know, from an NFL franchise is where you get drafted matters. And, you know, your career can largely be defined by you get drafted by, there's a lot of bad franchises in the NFL. If you get drafted by a bad one and you're not just super elite like you might not make it and one thing about being with Brett or I'm sure being with Aaron now is that you step into the huddle every time feeling like you got a chance and I don't know how many I'd be honestly I don't know how many players actually feel that way in the NFL right now given kind of the quality of quarterback I don't know where that

stops as far as is it 15 or 20 where you just like, I don't know if I have a chance today. Every time we stepped in the huddle, we thought we could score a touchdown. And, you know, that kind of confidence and understanding what that means and that confidence is the way you carry yourself, that really is an amazing feeling. And he's the kind of guy that just is, you know, elite level, competitor elite level confidence, but also just a guy that makes you feel at ease with yourself

and being comfortable in his own skin allows you to be comfortable in your own skin. I used to, as a kid, watch all of the, like, here's the NFL films, mic'd up and stuff like that. And it was always the best.

And it was always so interesting to me. And of course, far of slow motion highlights and stuff throws that don't make any sense, but somehow get completed interceptions that didn't make any sense, but somehow get completed. Interceptions that didn't make any sense either. But with far of the inside the huddle stuff was always so interesting because it seemed like this is the last guy who panics, right? Like he's just like hyping everybody up and, you know,

slapping everybody on the rear end and everything. And just like I can picture being on his team must be like, oh, this guy believes we're going to win today every single Sunday. Brett, well, I'll tell you the story that kind of sums up Brett. So we're playing Detroit and Alonzo Spellman, who played for a number of different teams in the NFC North, but he was wrapping up his career with, I believe it was, the end of his career in Detroit.

He's like third string. His knees are bad at this point, but he's still, he's a scary human being. If you don't know what I'm talking about, go ahead and Google. Oh, I career in Detroit. He's like third string. His knees are bad at this point, but he's a scary human being. If you don't know what I'm talking about, go ahead and Google Alonzo Spelman. Oh, I know. Yeah, yeah. He's frightening, right? We're going down on a screen play at the end of the fourth quarter. We're blowing them out.

It's raining outside. He's going against Mark Tausch for the right tackle. We throw a screen to him on. We're all kind of making our blocks and running downfield chasing him. Brett comes out of nowhere and runs downfield and and cuts Alonzo Spellman at the knees and we're all kind of like oh like haha wait a second and Alonzo Spellman gets up and we think at this point he's going to take his head you know helmet off start beating with it he's he's angry now he's just went from like 2000 Alonzo Spellman to like 1995 lines

of Spellman, right? And I just remember Brett gets back to the huddle. He's giggling and everything. And I just remember Tosh looks over and goes, thanks a lot, man. Real nice. And that's kind of like quarterbacks in general, but that was Brett to a tee. Hey, man, you guys take care of this, but I'm going to get people riled up

right now. He has no fear in him whatsoever. When he went to the Vikings, how did did you feel about that happy for him yeah super happy for him he wanted i think he wanted to go there originally before he went to you know he went to the jets um listen marco a couple other really really good players myself left it and after the 2004 season i know brent wasn't happy about it he felt maybe and then they drafted aaron i think the year after that and it's about maybe okay this is time and you know when it's time to move on you know sometimes the way it's handled doesn't look great maybe in the media or whoever whoever's take you have but when a guy's given that much to a team

and he wants an opportunity to go win a super bowl somewhere else, it's like give him the chance to do it. So the fact that he finally got there, unfortunately, you guys had that – he kind of had that bumble against the Saints on like was it fourth and eight or something like that. But it was obviously a really kind of a magical season, that one season for him. He played with some great players up there. And I know that you guys as fans of his now respect that everything he brought to Green Bay and then he got to Brighton and bring to Minnesota and you saw what kind of magic he's got in that arm of his now respect that everything he brought to Green Bay, you know, he got to Brighton, bring to Minnesota, and you saw what kind of magic he's got in that arm of his.

Yeah, it was, well, there was too many men in the huddle penalty that moved him back. Otherwise, they would have been able to just run and then kick a field goal. It's a whole thing. But with Favre, what was crazy about that season was when he got here, I think everyone sort of thought like well maybe he can like game manage and make a throw here there then they play san francisco he makes the greatest

throw you could argue the greatest throw in nfl history i mean just like yeah it was a difficulty and then it was just on from there and then he's like setting own personal records and everything else you're like this is what legends do like I was watching Serena the other day, and she's battling, and she's beating people at her age. You're like, legends do things that don't make sense, and everybody for a single year got to see that with Favre. It's just one of those unforgettable Minnesota sports moments. Yeah, I think it was fun for everybody.

I mean, if you're a fan of football, it's hard not to sit back and enjoy that season, enjoy everything he was able to do. I was watching the same thing with Serena, and kind of the same thoughts are going through my head that's what we talked about earlier there's just certain people that are so good and so much better than everybody else at what they do that it's it's hard not to just be in awe and enjoy the ride man but i i have to say that you you have the most as for somebody that played in this rivalry and it's so, like a very calm attitude about it, very zen about this rivalry. The fans are not that way.

I think the rivalry – well, I found out today on Twitter that the fans, the Minnesota fans are much more – I want to say this respectfully, but Packers – first of all, players don't think about rivalries like fans do. But even from a fan standpoint, I think because they've been, especially recently, have enjoyed so much success with Aaron Rodgers at the helm, when you start talking rivalry, we're starting to talk about all the games we're losing to San Francisco in the playoffs.

We're not necessarily talking about Minnesota. So these are important games because they're division games, and certainly I think there's a narrative here with Zedaria Smith coming to the other team and everything that's going on there. But the passion, I think, is usually on the side of the team trying to get to the top, not the team on the top. No, I mean, that's absolutely true. The little brother syndrome of Minnesota with Green Bay is a thousand percent there for

the entire history, really, of the two franchises. Even, you know, you go way back and Bart Starr gets championships and the Vikings lose in their Super Bowls and then on and on through the far of era and everything else. Uh, they have owned the Minnesota Vikings for the most part, but I wonder how you feel about this game in particular. Zedaria Smith is such a huge factor and Hey, we got trenches action, my friend. I mean, this is big. This is like Bakhtiari coming back and Jenkins coming back. The Vikings have been drafting linemen for years to try to stop Kenny Clark. Nobody can do it. I mean, I love the way that this matchup kind of plays out, even a little bit old school football.

Well, the thing I like about both teams, but we're just going to talk about Minnesota right now, is I think on offense and defense, they really have talent at all three levels because they brought in Zedarius, they have Hunter, they have Kendricks, obviously linebacker position. They have Patrick Peterson and Harrison Smith on the back end. So you've got talent everywhere. And so when we look at the offensive line of Green Bay, is Bakhtiari going to be there? Is Jenkins going to be there? Listen, Adam Stanovich, who's now the offensive coordinator, did this masterful job of making lemonade out of lemons last year with a makeshift offensive line when everybody started going down to injury. And they did an incredible job. Part of it's obviously a huge part of it's Aaron, part of it's play calling. Devante was a big deal. I mean, all of those things, but you have to really give credit to Adam Stanovich and the job he did with

that line in particular. And I think now we're hoping that Bakhtiari and Jenkins are back. Okay. And I'm just going to be, you know, as transparent as possible. I don't think many people, if Bakhtiari comes back, I'm assuming he's healthy. I don't think many people beat him. So he's kind of a guy that erases, I don't care who you put over there. He's going to erase that player. Jenkins is turning into that guy. It's, you kind of don't know what you're going to get because he hasn't played right tackle. He's been able to play everything, but he hasn't played right tackle before at length, and he's coming off an injury. Z Smith, you know he's going to make a play in this game. You know he's going to make a play. The question is, is it going to be enough? Because

when I look at the game and the comment I made earlier uh in our show you look at the the interior defensive line as kind of the way that you're going to defeat Green Bay in my mind because you that's where our younger players are our right guard is going to be our most inexperienced player most likely whether it's Jensen or Royce Newman's coming back depending on whether Jenkins plays or not do you have interior pass rushers that are going to be able to create havoc for Aaron? Because otherwise, it's really not that hard to game plan around like Aziz Smith if he's going to play in one spot. And that forces now you to bring pressure. If they bring pressure against Aaron Rodgers, that usually spells disaster for the defense. So I don't know if you have the interior pass rush to kind of disrupt the pocket

without pressure. And if that's the case, rush to kind of disrupt the pocket without pressure. And if that's the case, I feel really confident we can at least put up some points. Obviously, on the other side, I don't know if there's another group of skill position players, not named Kirk Cousins, but receivers, running backs, as talented as the Minnesota guys. And so that's going to – I love our defense. I think we're a top three defense this year. But I think Minnesota is really, really good from a skill position standpoint. And it's going to be fun to watch. Isn't it funny that the Vikings have always had the receivers

and the Packers have always had the quarterback? Like, no matter what year you're talking about, it could be 1992. And it was like Chris Carter and Jake Reed and everybody. It's so funny about how some things kind of never change with that. But you had, I mean, listen, it's not like you had randall you had dante culpepper and these guys were really really yes you guys had warren moon i mean these guys were really really good right just brief though it just didn't last it is yeah no you're absolutely listen we're the only franchise that's enjoying 30 plus years of like hall of fame levels i mean this is this has been

like you know every every it's like every day is christmas when you're when you're a green bay packers fan because you get the best quarterbacks in the league every time you wake up in the morning yeah well um someday that'll end i don't know when uh when you see uh i'm sure vikings fans when they saw reports of jordan love looking good in, they're like, no, come on, not this. But yeah, it is sort of fascinating how that's always existed. And Z'Darrius Smith, though, I wonder what you think from a lineman perspective. He moves around a lot and just in training camp, like not surprising to you, I'm sure, but lining up over the A-gap, lining up at linebackers sometimes, even middle linebackers for rush. He's so unique in that way. What does that do to the interior of an

offensive line, especially when you have the crowd noise that's being created by US Bank Stadium? Yeah, it destroys them. I think he's actually more dangerous inside than outside. I think he's great. First of all, Z'Darrius Smith was my favorite player when he got there. I think that the culture change that happened when the LaFleur regime came in was like 85% Zedaria Smith. Honestly, I mean, I think he was that influential in the locker room. And he's one of those guys that I think he's glue. I think he's absolutely amazing. I don't really understand everything that's gone on. And he's I know he's upset right now about Green Bay. I don't understand the story, but I know he was amazing and how much everybody respected him in the building when he was there. He's a very, very unique talent. We were talking earlier. He reminds me of

Julius Peppers, a guy I played with in Carolina. When you bring a guy inside like that, and this all started with that NASCAR package in the Super Bowl with Justin Tuck and the Giants went against the Patriots. I think Justin had two or three sacks in that game, and they basically destroyed the offensive line of the New England Patriots. Z'Darrius Smith, when he lines up at a guard against – over a guard where he's in a two-point, where he lines up in the center,

in the A-gaps in a two-point, guys like me, you know, back at 295, 300 pounds, cannot move laterally with Z'Darrius Smith. We're just not athletic enough. And so he can really get on edges. He can create havoc. He can do a stutter bull, and he can run games with the best of them. So you line them up on the same side as Hunter maybe, and you just let them run ETs and TEs and you are not going to be able to pass them off. You know, maybe you get three out of five, maybe you get four out of

seven, but the times they get through me, he's going to get hit on the quarterback. He's going to at least pressure the quarterback. And I think if I was a defensive coordinator, defensive line coach for Minnesota, I would start almost like the Reggie old Reggie white. Like let's just start moving them around the line and see who's scared. Yes. And in previous years, the Vikings had some guys on the interior who were all sorts of scared of

Zedaria Smith. And my first thought when they signed it was like, those are the guys celebrating today that he's not going up against them. And, and I like the, just watching him operate on a daily basis of training camp, like even though an energetic guy, also very serious about his job, but there are just dudes who you feel the earth shake when they're moving because of their power. And you're like, man, he could play defensive tackle if he needed to. Like there are just not the old school defensive ends were bigger. They were like 275, 280. Now they're like 240, 250.

He's like an old school defensive end with that size of his. It's really remarkable to see. Yeah, he's well, he's he's like old school, maybe from like a heightened weight. But the way that that weight is put on that frame is very very unique again i think you know the closest thing i can think of is julius peppers who is maybe the all-time freak that i've ever been around athletically so i think i'm super special um but listen i'm not gonna lie to you the guy on the other side of the ball rashad and gary our guy he's he's pretty good he's gonna be a guy that i guarantee their game planning against him because who's that uh brian o'neill that right tackle yeah if they leave him one-on-one with

sean gary it's gonna be a long day for that kid yeah and that's and and o'neill just got a huge contract and uh has developed into a really nice player and that's where some of these battles are going to be great i mean you have o'neill, Christian Derusaw was a first round pick at left tackle, but still on the interior, a rookie right guard playing in this game for the first time. And what, what in your view makes Kenny Clark so special? Because in my less educated view, it's that he picks dudes up and throws them into the quarterback. I mean, there's just so few people who have that explosion and strength combination. And then he's got away like three 25. Uh, he is an absolute monster. I think if there's one dude who could ruin the game for the Packers against the Vikings, it's him. Well, he certainly did a lot of that last year. And when you look, when you look at Kenny, I think the thing that's fun to watch about him is you,

you kind of see the end result, but he's a technician. And when I say that, I mean, the way that his foot strike and his hand placement and the way he learns the snap count and all, like, if you got, if you did a film session with him and you kind of, what are you thinking about? What do you see? And how are you able to jump the snap so often? You know, what would come out of his brain, I think would blow you away. He's a very, very intelligent player and he just knows how to get to the chest of offensive linemen before they can get that second step in the ground. If you can do that, you can do that well.

You can be very disruptive in this league. And he's essentially created a pass rush out of not having a lot of moves. He's just kind of, you know, he does a really good job of getting into you off balance, and he's so quick at flipping his hips. He's turned that into a pretty viable pass rush. know the first couple years in the league you wouldn't say that he was very effective in that in that uh that side of the the equation but right now i just don't think there's anything he can't do yeah he is uh he is the guy that gives vikings uh offensive players and fans nightmares because with kirk cousins he's not mobile he's not going to run away

from anybody and we've seen Kenny Clark and previously Zedarius Smith really just crush game plans basically on their own in the past I think that still remains one of the biggest concerns so let me ask you one more thing about this game which is just the question you've probably been asked by a lot of people the receivers for the Packers is it an overrated storyline that Devontae Adams is gone or is it like look that was his guy and it's going to take an adjustment how do you view that let's give the respect that Devontae deserves he's the best receiver in the league so I'm not going to say it's an overrated story in that anytime you lose the best guy in the league it's's a big deal. But Aaron Rodgers has made the careers. There's a lot of bank accounts that have extra zeros in them

because of Aaron Rodgers, right? And he's done this with Gray Jennings, Jordy Nelson, Devontae Adams. All of these guys are a consequence of their own work ethic but also playing with the best quarterback in the league. And I think having the weapons that he has, you know, we don't know what Sammy Watkins is going to look like. He was a, you know, first, you know, what is he, fourth or fifth draft pick in the draft, I think, back in the day.

Talent's there, just injuries. Randall Cobb's this guy. Alan Lazard's a guy that has – he's a Swiss Army knife for this team last year. And we're all kind of hoping he can be the guy because of everything he brings to the table, not only receiving but also in the run game. And then you have these rookies that we don't know Watson's going to be like. He was injured for most of camp, but he's a burner. And then Dobbs just ended up having a really good camp.

You add to that, we have our two running backs, Mercedes Lewis, Robert Tenue, might come back at the tight end position. I want to mention A.J. and Aaron Jones because I think they're both Pro Bowl two running backs, Mercedes Lewis, Robert Tenue might come back at the tight end position. You know, I want to mention AJ and Aaron Jones, because I think they're both pro ball caliber running backs. I don't know if they're Dalvin Cook, but they're pretty, they're pretty close as far as effectiveness. But you look at all the weapons we have, and then you look at the guy throwing the ball, and he's a force multiplier. He makes everybody better. So I don't think anybody inside of the building is really concerned that Aaron's not going to get his yards and be effective. I think that's just a story that was fun to talk about in the media. Yeah, I think that with him and Patrick Mahomes losing Tyreek Hill, it's like I'll underestimate those guys when they're like, you know, wearing gold jackets or something.

When they're not in the league anymore. Until then, I'm going to assume that they're going to be great because that's what their track record says. So last question for you. I want to know who the most underrated Packer you played with was during the day or during your day, like who nobody gave credit to everyone knew Favre, who was the most underrated Packer? Other than Mike Wall, of course. Yeah, that was an easy question. So I'm going to say this. It was probably Mike Flanagan.

Yeah, great point. Yeah, it was Mike Flanagan. And I'm saying that because Mike Flanagan should be a Packers Hall of Fame guy right now. And you tell me why he's not. I can't figure it out. He had that horrific leg injury. I think the first or second play of his career in a preseason. But he had the best hands of anybody I ever played with,

and I played with some amazing linemen. And he was the smartest guy that I've ever been around in a football locker room. And just a complete, effective run pass, anything you want, screen game, get downhill, you know, just an amazing teammate. I mean, just so much goes into it. And you're usually an unsung hero, especially back in the NFC North when you had Matt Burke there, Olin Kruitz is there already, and he kind of like had already established himself.

So the path to get into the Pro Bowls and the All-Pros was a little murky, you know, to be fair, because of the NFC North talent. But, God, I thought he was – you know – I still think he was one of the best guys I've played with. Well, we're big fans of fullbacks on the show. William Henderson, what a great one coming out of the backfield, an underappreciated packer. William was a good – Will was a good player.

We call him Buggy. He was a – man, he was a character. And that's the thing about football you miss is those locker room guys, man. They were characters. He was certainly one of them. I just miss the size of his pads, like up to his – Yeah, I just – I'll be honest with you. I like throwing on the program every once in a while just to see the neck rolls.

Like I miss all that. And it's funny. Here's something I don't know people talk about, but when you get to the league, at least this is back in the late 90s, but when you get to the league, it's like you's some i don't know people talk about but you know when you get to the league at least this is back in the late 90s but when you get to the league it's like you can't wear that like if you wore a neck roll it was like what's wrong with you right you know it's like yeah your neck needs to get bigger it's like it was in high school it was a sign of like being cool but when you got to the pros it was like nah it's not very cool man yeah there was a there was a time where it just sort of petered out i guess i that might be why but i i asked the vikings fullback cj ham like why don't you wear that

and he's like that's corny that's old school i'm like come on man what's cool uh anyway while you're doing podcasts for the believe sports network um i don't know how many vikings fans will be jumping over to listen probably all of them yeah Probably all of them. Yeah, I was going to say, but if they're going to, they should check that out. Hey, I really appreciate your time. Fun to reminisce about the old games and get a hardcore offensive lineman's view of this game.

So really great to get to know you, and hopefully we'll do it again soon, man. Absolutely. Thanks for having me.