Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Latest on Dalvin Cook abuse allegations and The Defector's Kalyn Kahler talks NFC North and mid-season surprises

Episode Date: November 10, 2021

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Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar here along with Sam Ekstrom inside TCO Performance Center. Wanted to give you an update on what we heard from Delvin Cook today. And then I've got a fun conversation with Kaylin Kaler of The Defector that was recorded before the Delvin Cook accusations came to light. So we have a discussion about the Vikings and the NFC North in the future and what's going on with Deshaun Watson because she's reported on that along with some mid-season stuff so maybe bring a little light to some very tough times

in the football world if you're a Vikings fan so that's coming up in just a few minutes but Sam maybe we could start out by just reacting to Delvin Cook he had very little to say about accusations that he assaulted his former girlfriend. The entire case gets very convoluted because on her side, she is saying that she came to his house to get her things and that they got in an altercation, which resulted in some very serious injuries of which pictures are also included in the lawsuit and have come out as well. Whereas Delvin Cook says that she came into his house, sprayed him with mace. That's how they got into an altercation. And he said today that he is the victim, but the biggest, maybe take away from today, besides some of the new things that have

come to light are just that the NFL is not going to step in here and Delvin Cook is set to play against the Los Angeles Chargers and this thing is just going to sit and linger over the Minnesota Vikings and Delvin Cook. Yeah, it's been over seven years since I covered the Adrian Peterson season. And if that taught me anything, it's that as a journalist, as an observer from afar, as a fan, you kind of have to just withhold opinions. You just have to withhold judgment until stuff comes in.

Because as we speak now, we're not even 24 hours into this news cycle. New information is coming out constantly as both sides try to sort of stake their claims to what happened, getting their message forward. Dalvin's agent sort of got this ball rolling with Adam Schefter on Tuesday night. We've had DMs get released. We've had photos get released. You know, TMZ has added to the story. There's some squabbling about how the civil suit was served to Dalvin Cook. It's messy right now. And I think, you know, the danger that the Vikings got into with Adrian was that they tried to just carry on as usual without having all the information, without having a chance to see how sponsors

would respond, how the fan base would respond. And the Vikings reversed course. Remember, they said that Adrian Peterson was going to continue playing, and they defended him. And then Radisson comes out and says, you know, we're not going to stand by this. And the Vikings changed their mind. And Adrian Peterson ended up on the commissioner's exempt list. He didn't play for the rest of that season. So just because he's going to play as of today, I don't know if that's true tomorrow. I don't know if that's true tomorrow. I don't know if that's true on Friday. But as we've sort of discussed already, it's a very blurry line when this league

differentiates so tightly between legal and civil issues. It really does put the onus on teams to make these decisions when people's jobs are at stake when you win or lose, and you have to decide whether this valuable player should play on your own. When it's not in their hands, you might not always make the right decision. Like Sean Watson is kind of the obvious case right now to look to where it's of civil nature. He's allowed to play, but he's not playing, the Texans have decided. So it's all very murky and messy. And I don't know how long the information we have today will be valid or if it gets obsolete quickly if we get new information, right? So

bear with us as we sift through it and also you know just sort of pump the brakes we don't all need to have our opinions set in stone today yeah the fluidity of the situation is what uh makes at least the podcast elements of this difficult i mean i recorded with kaylin kaler yesterday in the middle of the afternoon and thinking well okay this this conversation is fun and it'll be good for tomorrow. Um, when everyone is kind of feeling down about the Vikings, we can have something that's kind of, kind of fun. And then all of a sudden by later that evening, everything, the entire tenor of this has, has changed with, with one tweet, starting with Adam

Schefter. And then a lot of other things start to come out after that as the Star Tribune does their diligence and puts out some of the more disturbing details of the accusations. And I think there's another part of this where the world of reporting has made it twice as hard on reasonable people. And this goes for anything. This goes for politics. It goes for anything. This goes for politics. It goes for sports. And what you could see is a strategy from Delvin Cook's side to shape the narrative right off the bat through Adam Schefter. And as reporters like you and I, who take the approach that you just laid out of being patient and trying to gather all facts before you want to form an opinion or form the entire picture of something to put that out there without fact check or anything else.

Just here's what's happening. A lot of people I saw quote tweeted. I saw very famous people quote tweeted and oh, Delvin Cook has been victimized and everything else. And then a lot of other reporting gets done that makes this look a lot different than that. And I thought that was a tremendously bad job on Adam Schefter's part. If you believe that your job as a reporter is to tell the story of what's actually going on

to the public, he did not do that. He instead acted as a complete mouthpiece and shaped something from the jump that might not be that. And then the photographs come out and everything else. And if you're the NFL, if you're the Vikings, what other option do you have to also, I think, sit and wait and see what happens? Because we could see legal action being taken beyond just a lawsuit. That's still possible. I mean, if you're the police and you see these pictures, and how would you not think about investigating this more, right? The FBI is investigating Deshaun Watson. So I don't think

that we're over from that yet. And I guess I wonder about whether as this starts to spread and gain momentum, if we will have a situation like you laid out where ESPN is talking about it 24-7, it transcends ESPN to the CNNs and the Fox News and the CBS News and all those sorts of things to where it becomes a story that is on the evening news and then there is pressure from all sorts of places that you could never anticipate i mean this is actually kind of how it felt with kirk cousins in the covet thing and they're dealing with this with aaron rogers and the packers where when something transcends football it is so much of a different level of pressure than it is when NFL network is talking about you. And, you know, Maurice Jones, Drew is giving his take or whatever, you know,

like this is way different than that. So like you said, that could change very, very quickly. And I don't know how in the world, Sam, you can avoid this distraction. Like there are distractions of, Hey, Bashad breeland put out a really stupid tweet what an idiot everyone's mad at him uh that's like a one and a half out of ten this is like a nine or a ten out of ten what they're going through now with dalvin cook yeah and this is the classic conundrum for teams. Dalvin Cook is really good. Therefore, and this is just reality, he is going to get more patience from the team. He's going to get a longer leash and they will exhaust every avenue to see if, you know, A, can he play this week?

B, can he remain a part of this team? Like if things escalate. As we saw with Jeff Gladney, first round pick, the Vikings were not going to, you know, immediately make a move. They were going to let things play out. And that's how things go across the league. That is not specific to the Vikings, that when you are of high stature, of high salary, and you are valuable, there is, you know, sort of a precedent where teams are going to give you a lot of benefit of the doubt. Now, the Las Vegas Raiders have sort of zigged

away from that a little bit in the past couple weeks, and the things that have been, you know, that have come out about Henry Ruggs and Damon Arnett were very heinous and almost necessitated an instant reaction by the Raiders, but they have not waited. I think the Vikings will slow play this. They are not going to add any more severity to these charges than already exists in the media. I think they're going to proceed. And Mike Zimmer really downplayed it. I mean, maybe do a fault today where he said, um, like it is what it is. I don't know much about it as if he had not investigated or been told about the case, which I thought was, you know, maybe I know he's tunnel vision on football, but it felt to me like this required a little more research to know the facts of this case because it involves violence, obviously.

And if Cook alleges that there were multiple instances of violence on her part against him, she's a member of the U.S. military. I don't know what kind of role that plays in it either. But it's messy, man. And people, you don't really PR train for these situations. You can kind of know what to do, but it's really hard to know exactly the right move. So yeah, we just... And the journalistic standards too, I'm rambling a little bit, but, you know, there's valid information that comes out sometimes through like strange places that have some truth, some falsehoods. And you have to know how to sift through it, like, you know, random Twitter accounts putting out stuff that seems legit or, you know, websites that don't really have journalistic, um, wording or speech,

but might have like actual information that makes it even harder. Yeah. And I guess what I would just, um, advise people to do is to, and I know that there's a lot of folks who like to run to social media and express their opinions on everything that's going on. And, uh, I just, as an aside, say that that's one of the reasons it will be very hard for the Vikings to duck this and just say, it is what it is. I don't really know what's going on, whatever. It's a civil case. Well, once pictures come out and this was the case

with Ray Rice, Gray Rice didn't go to jail, but there's a video. And when there are pictures that changes the game. And that means that those can be shared everywhere on every TV station, every newspaper, every website, whatever. And then this becomes, since there's a, he said, she said type of nature to this, it becomes people taking sides. It uh maybe even domestic violence groups starting to get involved to to want more information or to want delvin cook taken off the field and like that's what that's i'm saying is like it starts to to grow quickly and for a team get out of hand quickly and that's why from mike zimmer's perspective more tact was probably required here because it is what it is will now be the thing he

said about it right after after Jeff Gladney's thing earlier in the year right where you you would hope that there would be a little more sensitivity but I just wanted to clear up and run something by you and see how you interpret things just and for the people that might not know all the information, I interpret this case as Dalvin Cook accuses this girlfriend, ex-girlfriend of breaking and entering, trespassing, assaulting him. in his eyes, justified whatever action was taken against her, which I guess the intention would be to say, like, okay, these pictures happened. Like, this is real, but I had the right to defend myself. Is that how you interpret his case? It is. It is.

But now you talk about how things change so quickly. It was first painted by Adam Schefter and Delvin Cook's representative as if it was just a break-in and Delvin Cook then was held hostage and fought his way out of it. And that's what happened here. And then that changed very quickly when we found out the relationship between the two was an on again, off again, former girlfriend type of situation. And so that that does seem to be the sticking point is, did she come into the house and attack Delvin Cook or was she getting her things to leave and she was attacked by Dalvin Cook? That seems to be the sticking point of this, right? Right. And if, right.

So like if the case is about whether she broke and entered and not whether Dalvin Cook, you know, used physical force, that becomes so much more difficult to prove unless there are like very clear text messages or surveillance video. It is a he said, she said in the truest sense, which, you know, probably means that this lingers and probably means that we never have real resolution unless there's a smoking gun somewhere, which is yet to come out. It's going to be really hard. And it sounds like Dalvin has a couple of witnesses that are at least in his camp that are going to promote his side of the story, whether it's true or not. Right. That's right. People who know him that would be biased witnesses in some way or another relation, people he's related to, that kind of thing. So that's hard to figure out as well. And then there's other things in this case, and I'm sorry to get so deep in the woods of it,

but this is what you're going to hear over the next number of days probably is she, during the incident called someone, uh, she went to a doctor later, told them that the injuries had come from an ATV accident to not um you know go after delvin because they eventually got back together and then they had talks after breaking up like eventually going both ways they had talks about possibly a settlement and those talks broke down there's also a text message from him that appears to apologize like there's there's so many moving parts here that it's very very challenging to sort through and say ah this is what happened there was no with ray rice there was just like that's what happened we all watch on video the same thing sort of for kareem hunt

it's like yeah you pretty clearly kicked that woman on video but But this has a lot of, like you said, parts that we have not been able to fill in as of yet, but there could be a lot more to come. There could be nothing more to come. And this just sits the, I guess the thing I think about though, is that the NFL has gotten itself into a real conundrum here by saying when it's civil, it's not our problem because the NFL after Ray Rice, they had all these star players making videos and we care about domestic violence and you know, that sort of thing because the NFL had a real problem with it. And then now to have Deshaun Watson accused of assaulting 22 people and you have Delvin Cook accused of this and to say, sorry, well, that civil, civil. Well, anybody who knows the

legal system anyway knows how hard it is to prove domestic violence to a criminal level anyway. That's extremely, extremely hard to prove that on a criminal level regardless. Neither one of them filed a police report at the time so that there's a lot of things that are just sort of lingering and now there will be more things that come out, more rumors and accusations and things like that that come to light and we sit and we wait, I guess, because I can't tell you. Like you said, by the time everyone's listening to this, he might be off the field or nothing might have changed i don't know and uh i guess we'll continue to follow it the best we can but from the football perspective which i have always come back to with everything is hey we cover football here so it's not

inappropriate to talk about the football it's so hard to see this team overcoming these things we haven't even we're 17 minutes in this conversation we have not even mentioned that Dakota Dozier's in the hospital by the way and 29 people presumably all vaccinated because they're not in the COVID protocols had close contact with him so who knows if there's other COVID cases that could emerge as we go forward here it's not something that immediately I breathe on you and you get COVID and test positive so there I mean there are so many things hang over this team. They just played 98 plays. They've lost all these close games. This just has the feeling of, I don't know how you claw yourself back from this. The chargers are just hanging out. It's like 90 degrees in LA. Like they have no problems. I mean, I, I don't know. And you got to fly out there after being on the East Coast.

This has a feeling of 2016, 2010, like the other seasons that have just been hit so hard by distractions of some kind or another that I do not know how they overcome this. Yeah, the Everson incident in 2018 if you remember what happened that's right that sunday it i mean absolute no show and it's hard to find the exact correlation but i think there's validity to it not to mention that you know this is a pretty important member of your offense that is presumably going to be on the field for the whole game. So where's his mind going to be at? And how does that influence, you know, his relationship with teammates, his relationship with coaches, because this is so ongoing. And I'm sure that privately people draw their own conclusions, you know, in their own minds about what's happening. And that can't not, know sort of take its toll on on a football

team the chemistry chemistry is real um it's incalculable but it's real and this team is i mean if they can overcome this somehow maybe that's a galvanizer maybe that's their ticket to like have hope in the final third of the season but but man at the halfway point you cannot get at like much lower from a morale standpoint yeah yeah not not even to mention adam theelin's monday podcast it just felt like someone who can draw up an x and o play get me the football i mean right so what did he say i didn't see this well i mean adam theelin was the whole we've got the guys. And you and I discussed this yesterday. Oh, the press conference.

Yeah, Adam Thielen's press conference. He said podcast. Oh, I'm sorry. He does a podcast. Yeah, everyone's got a podcast. That's the funniest line in Schitt's Creek is when the guy says, if you had only listened to my podcast. Ray?

Is that Ray? Yeah, Ray. Great character. Underutilized, hilarious character anyway so adam theelin saying we've got the guys you know when i went back and thought about that i thought i mean that that sounds very much like come on coaches like get us some footballs like let's go how is this happening and you know you got that alone i think would be really difficult for a team to deal with where it feels like Zimmer's talking about plays that aren't working anymore.

And there's a lot of fingers being pointed like Clint Kubiak, I guess, is sort of off the hook for this week. But, man, I mean, he's he's got to still be feeling it as well, that everyone is pulling him in a million different directions. Hey, why aren't you running more boots? Hey, why aren't you getting us the football? Hey, you're running back is distracted. Hey, you're right. Guard can't play like, Hey, you know, all these things. Why do you keep losing close games and so forth? And, uh, then you've got all these other things as well.

So, as I mentioned, had a very good conversation with Kalen Kaler of the defector and would have loved to have discussed this topic with her had we, uh, known it was coming, but we didn't. So that's coming up next here. And I think that, you know, if you're just here to listen to football stuff, then that's good for you. So, all right. Here's that. And sorry about everything, as always.

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Joining me, making a return appearance to the show, is Kalen Kaler. Not good enough to be credentialed by the Green Bay Packers, but a very impressive resume. Having written for MMQB, Bleacher Report the last time we talked, and now one of my favorite websites on the internet, Defector, which I have great admiration for as, just call it like hashtag goals, for everyone from Deadspin to have left and launched Defector on the subscriber model has worked out very well. And I thought they did a great job in hiring you, Kaylin Kaler. What is up? Great to have you back. Thank you. Yeah, I love Defector. It's been really fun. It's very freeing to work somewhere that we

don't have owners, you know, hanging over our heads, you know, about to pull the plug on everything or lay people off or change the vision or pivot to video. And you understand that, obviously. So yeah, it's great. It's great to be independent on our own doing our thing. And, you know, establishing ourselves as we're in year two now of a company is still my first year there. But September was the anniversary for defector. So we've had great retention rates so far for our subscription. So things are going great. That is awesome to hear. And the Packers need to figure it out when it comes to getting your credential there.

But although I wonder if they're just on edge in general because of some mildly bad PR that they have undergone recently. Yeah, I think that might have something to do with it. And well, I will say that historically they have always been really wary of new websites and new things like that. Like I think they even when the athletic was formed, I think they even like waited a little bit during the athletics very beginning, at least that's what they told me. So I don't know, you know, Bob McGinn's website, like they didn't credential him. So they have always sort of held this line, but it's a weird line to hold. And I do think like this week, yeah, they're probably going to be a little bit more protective and wanting to limit like who, because I was trying to go to the Seattle game this weekend, which, you know,

would be Aaron's first time speaking to Green Bay or NFL media. I'll say that outside of Pat McAfee's show where he's not going to be asked a question. So, you know, that that would be his first time. So I was trying to go to that to be like, hey, you know, and the thing I would want to ask him is like, what is your definition of woke? Because I don't think anyone knows what it means anymore. And like everyone just kind of like throws it around willy nilly. And personally, I don't even know what it means anymore. Like, I'm not sure. And that's why I really want to ask him, like, I'm not trying to like,

you know, gotcha him or anything. I just like truly want to know like what he thinks that word means because it would help explain, you know, the ways that he's used it. So that's really, that's the question that i want to ask him but i guess i won't be able to maybe i'll feed it to somebody else who's there it does seem like there's a menu that certain celebrities read off of anytime they've been uh i don't know caught or whatever just being bad and you know aaron rogers can do what he wants but being a complete liar to the entire world uh that's a little bit of a different level now i don't know if it'll affect how he plays or anything else it probably won't because him acting this way all the time has never affected their

wins and losses so i guess uh that part of it will probably eventually go away but you're so right with like oh here comes the uh check mark woke mob check mark did my own research check mark that like none of this stuff is even halfway intelligent man and i think what is so interesting just about athletes in general is you know sometimes you get guys who are dumb football players but really smart and interesting people and And you're like, well, that's a shame. And then sometimes you have somebody who is an incredibly brilliant football player that clearly does not really understand a lot of the rest of the universe. And sometimes I think we set our expectation at like, Oh, he's a great football player and everything else.

And he should understand the rest of the world. But somebody who lives in LA, he's married to a celebrity, only dates celebrities, has a gazillion dollars and no surprise, he seems to live on a different planet than the rest of us. So it's kind of been, I don't know, it's just been weird for me. I wanted, I did want to ask you since you brought it up about your opinion on like him in the McAfee show, because I go back and forth on this journalistically. And I promise we'll get to some Viking stuff and everything else with you, but just since you brought it up, like athletes going on athletes podcasts, like journalistically is sort of like, oh man,

come on. You got to ask some real questions here and so forth. At the same time, the false sense of security sometimes seems to allow the floodgates of truth to be opened. And so I kind of went back and forth on like, oh, McAfee, can you grill him on this? And then you're like, but the fact that he's not, he's just like digging his own grave here. Yeah. And McAfee really hardly asked any questions at all. Like he, I mean, he hardly talked the whole time. So that I think was really, I think I agree with you. Like Aaron, I mean, I used to watch it every i haven't really tuned in this season but last year i was watching it we're trying to watch it like every tuesday and

he's going on again today i don't know what time he's going on but tuesdays are his day um on the macfie show and i used to watch all the time last year because it was really interesting like he was getting like a version of aaron that like regular reporters in the press conference setting really weren't getting um so he would really go into detail and into depth on a lot of stuff and it was like super super entertaining last year um so yeah so i don't necessarily think like oh pat pat is bad at what he like no like pat's like not a journalist he's he was clearly not going to be the person who was going to press aaron and all these things the only part where i was like okay like that was bad was when

he's like agreeing with aaron on every point like you don't you don't need to like agree with him just like let him talk but you don't need to be like yeah man great idea like yes uh-huh because at one point he was like yeah um i think he said something like i'm gonna need to go do my research now and i'm like what it's just like a comment that wasn't necessary because there was literally nothing aaron said that like required further digging and pretty much everything had been proven false already so i don't know that part i was like okay that was a little not necessary but otherwise yeah I think I agree with you like he's he wasn't gonna do that rant probably um you know in front of the

Green Bay media in a press conference um although you know he is he is one of the more open people in press conferences uh among athletes uh he does really talk a lot and he does get pretty in depth about it, but I don't think we would have gotten that in like a team setting. So I, I do agree with there. Yeah. It was wild. It sort of caught, just caught my interest because I did a long form thing on athletes and, or football players specifically in podcasting earlier this year,

based around Patrick Peterson. And what I found with Patrick Peterson is they, they had it as a big goal of theirs to like, we're not going to grill guys. We're just going to like tell stories and throw footballs at each other. But they made headlines like a dozen times, like Teddy Bridgewater saying, yeah, that Carolina coaching staff, they have no idea what they're doing. It's like, oh, okay. Right. And so like letting the guard down so i think that sometimes maybe journalists get a little defensive about it and in a lot of ways it reveals way more information to us to follow up on looking to investigate and that's and rogers was just i am outing myself

as like a mush brain at this point um so that anyway um the one thing you said earlier that i thought was one of the thoughts that i had about it is that um you know you said obviously like you know he's basically a celebrity he only hangs out with celebrities so what you know it's not that surprising that he thinks he's above everyone also like has a different set of rules and that i thought was really interesting because i did a story earlier this summer where I talked to a bunch of like just regular Joe players in the league, kept them anonymous, just like ask for their vaccine thoughts. And a lot of them like had similar questions that Aaron was asking and like were kind of vaccine hesitant,

but ended up getting it because it was just easier than fighting the NFL and, you know, trying to play by the unvaccinated rules. And so all of them just decided like, yeah, I'm just going to get it. Except for one, there was one guy who didn't. And he was also kind of a wealthier, more powerful type of player, not a quarterback, but like along those lines. Anyway, so I thought it was really interesting that the lengths that Aaron was able to go to that I don't think, I'm not saying they're unavailable

to every player but I don't I just don't think it would occur to like a you know second string tight end that he would be able to present his homeopathic thing to the NFL and have them like actually take it seriously and like respond to him I I just, and I think they would, I think the NFL would do it for any player, but I don't think that's going into the brains of, you know, the not quarterback elite, very wealthy celebrity types. So I thought that was kind of interesting. It's just like the actual like lengths that he went to and like all the research he was able to get because of his status and position.

Yeah. went to and like all the research he was able to get because of his status and position. Yeah. And I think the other part of it too, is that if you do certain things in the NFL, you're probably going to get just like cut or no team's going to want you. Whereas Rodgers can demand that they allow him to pick his own wide receivers and trades. And then like, okay, Jordan Love is really bad i guess we have to and it's like oh i i'm gonna go out and just lie to the entire nation about what i'm doing here and uh the you know fans and everybody else and they're just well i guess we have to let you because you're you and that kind of thing so i mean he's always had this attitude of well i'm really great so i can just do whatever i want. I can treat people however I want. I can, whatever else.

So I thought like some of the other stuff, football reporting, I don't, you know, it's hard to get into like whether you should listen to Joe Rogan or not. I guess that's your choice if you want to. I prefer that you listen to this show about football. But just from the perspective of like who he is and how that team's had to deal with him and all those different things i thought that it showed his whole ass would be one way to put it just you showed exactly how the guys who like you're michael finley who trash him at every every chance they get like yeah those guys are probably telling us what is what is real there you know right yeah and it crazy. Cause I used to like really defend him. Um,

when in all of the things that he did, I was like, Oh yeah, like he's worth it. Like the front office should definitely let him do whatever he wants. They should keep him involved in the conversations. Like I was always like picking his side because I kind of understood it. And now I'm like okay well uh not anymore like we're done with that exactly exactly my reaction like yeah you should have drafted him a wide receiver but also oh my gosh you've been dealing with this guy so let's uh let's move on from this because now like Howard Stern is talking about Aaron Rodgers and all this it's be it's sort of

transcended sports and that's when I can't handle it anymore. So let me start with this question. Then I have five kind of quicker questions for you about the second half of the NFL season. Who, if you were to pick right now, will be the best team in the NFC lions in the year 2023 very interesting question um well i'm gonna say aaron rogers is probably not on the packers in 2023 uh he's podcasting or has a sub stack yeah so i don't think it'll be the packers because jordan love i mean yes we we still don't have a ton to go off of there but it wasn't very impressive in his debut um so i don't know i just don't know that he's really going to be like that good i think he'll

be serviceable but i just don't think they're gonna I don't think they've hit on like another hall of fame quarterback there uh so you know what I might honestly say oh my god this is like such a hard question because I love I love Dan Campbell in Detroit and like I think that like he is going to be able to build something but like right now they literally have no one on that team who is like build around really potential like they just are starting from scratch there so i don't even i don't think i don't know because it's just like who's gonna be on their team like i have no idea who's gonna be on their team in two years um but i love dan campbell so i'll say this the lions won't be the worst they will not be the worst team.

I would actually pick maybe the Bears just because of Justin Fields right now because I think, you know, yesterday he had a season-high passing career, you know, because this is his first season, career-high passing, 291 yards. The game before that he had a career-high rushing. So, like, the last two weeks with Justin Fields we've he's lost both times of course because he plays for the Bears but he's shown us things that are very very exciting and like really interesting and I think you know conditional here if Matt Nagy is not the coach in 2023 I think the Bears are the best team um in the nfc north so

that's how i'll answer it although i do i mean matt lafleur i think is also a really great coach i think there's two good coaches i mean dan campbell questionable i don't know if he's really actually a good coach like x's and o's but but i love his brand and I love like his honesty. And I think players really like him. So like, I think that goes a long way. Some of his coaching decisions have been like totally Epic and some have made no sense. So I don't know about him, like as an actual, as like a making decisions for the game type of coach, but like for, you know, a brand and inspiring the guys i love him so i'll say i

will definitely say bears because of justin fields because i think they actually might have the quarterback this time and and the vikings get no mentions on this for me oh yeah sorry i didn't talk about they're they're gonna be 500 that's pretty much what you could say cousin is a good quarterback and i don't really care what people say i think he's a good quarterback he's been playing really well this season um i just don't think he'll be there like i don't know like i don't know what i really have no idea what direction the vikings are going to be heading except for the fact that i think mike zimmer is on his last few games here.

I don't think it would surprise me if he made it through this whole season without getting fired. That would surprise me. Are the Vikings a team that fires coaches in season? I can't remember. They've had the same coach for so long that there isn't really a pattern of behavior. They did fire Brad Childress midseason. They didn't with Les Frazier. But Brad Childress was a pattern of behavior. They did fire Brad Childress mid-season. They didn't with Les Frazier, but Brad Childress was a very unique situation.

Brad Childress basically like lied to ownership. He cut Randy Moss without telling them that he was going to cut Randy Moss in the middle of 2010. So that was a little bit weird. Beyond that, I think with Mike Tice, they may have waited till the very end with him. I don't remember exactly, but I mean, this is, I mean, we're talking very few times that they've had to fire a coach.

Yeah. Yeah. Cause I know the bears like have actually never in the history of the team ever fired anyone during the season. So that's why, like, I think, I don't know. I think Maggie will make it through the season, but I don't think, I don't know. I mean, I still have no idea. I always think he's getting fired and he's not fired so i don't know but i think for the good of justin fields and his development i do think they need a new coach um even though you know there's the flip side of that is like do you really want to change everything on a rookie after they had one year and then you want them to start over with a new offensive coordinator and a new head coach and a new scheme and everything in this situation i would say it's worth it because i mean like just the game what was the game um oh the buccaneers game when they were totally destroyed in tampa

he's sitting on a bench and he just looked like totally like hopeless like he was giving up like there was nothing in him willing to live and it's just like that is just not that is not and i understand he's played better than the two following weeks but it's like there's still just been a lot of problems um and just a lot of things that make you question like the coaching like the amount of penalties that the bears had let's say some of them were not deserved but i would say at least half of them were like valid like so many offsides so many false starts those are like little things that just make you question like this team is like not well coached right now like this shouldn't be happening and i get it he had covid he was gone well he's back now so um fix it essentially uh and it's just never getting fixed um so yeah but yeah so the vikings

i think are facing a upcoming coaching change and then i just i'm not sure like the direction of the team i mean kellen mond is not really what you would call an inspiring quarterback of the future. In an unfortunate situation like that, it's good to have someone in your corner. That's where Kemet Sanford and Kramer Law can help you understand your rights under Minnesota's workers' compensation laws. There's enough uncertainty in our lives nowadays that the last thing you want is to feel helpless

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This is an attorney advertisement from Kemet Sanford and Kramer, yourminnesotaworkcomplawyer.com. This is why I like the question, because I think we know the direction of the Bears and Lions. The Lions will lose all their games and they'll probably draft. This is just my guess that they'll draft the guy from Oregon who's a beast pass rusher. And then the next year after that, they'll draft their quarterback and then they'll go from there. But it's like a three, four year type of plan. No quarterbacks in this draft this year.

Right. That's what makes it tough to draft someone because they'll get number one or number two overall pick. So they should probably just take the freakiest freak and then try to build up the roster. So we know where that that train is headed. It may end up like the Jets where it just never gets off the ground despite all the tanking or, you know, maybe they'll turn it around. The Bears are going to build around Justin Fields with someone else as probably the head coach and probably deservingly the general manager. The Vikings are probably going to have a new head coach and new quarterback

and new general manager too, within that, that time span. And so it really, I mean the Packers, the door would be open for them to continue to be at the top, except for their quarterback has made it a completely untenable situation, which ties into our opening conversation. I think that, I think that they'll be looking for a different person than Jordan Love. So it's really hard to project even who their quarterback is going to be. And so I guess the point of the question is like, it's a really crazy division

to think about for the next couple of years. Yeah. Cause I could see the Packers like trying to get a veteran of some kind from somewhere else like maybe they're able to do i don't know if that would work but maybe they're able to do some kind of like jimmy garoppolo aaron rogers and someone a lot of other things from the 49ers right sort of like trade scenario there or and i you know jimmy garoppolo is not like you know a world beater or anything, but he's probably better than Jordan Love at this point. So that could be kind of interesting. I don't know, but I could see them in the market for, you know, a veteran. But it will be really interesting what sort of judgment they're going to place on Jordan Love by the end of this year.

Because this offseason, there are going to be some quarterbacks available obviously Deshaun Watson um obviously well I don't know obviously but like Russell Wilson maybe tried to you know made some noise last offseason like Aaron and then nothing happened so you know there's there are going to be some, like, proven and good quarterbacks out there. So I just don't know that they'll move this quickly, but maybe they will. If they're going to really lose Aaron this offseason, then maybe they'll be in it, too. What do you make of the Watson thing? I mean, supposedly some teams tried to trade three first-round picks for him,

and the Texans weren't taking it, but we also don't know the other parts of this. It seems a little odd to me to be saying, yeah, take the future of our franchise in terms of draft picks for a guy who's accused of a lot and a lot of things. But then, and the other part of it, I think about Michael Vick. I'm not going to rank terrible things people did, but like really bad. And the Eagles brought him back. And at first it was a lot of people upset. And then everyone forgot about it when he won football games. And I guess we could talk about the moral elements of that. But like the reality is generally football fans don't care.

And so it's like, oh, if they traded for Deshaun Watson, there'd be a handful of people outside picketing, but everybody else would be excited because he would throw touchdowns. And it's always, it's always been a little gross to say, but it just seems to be what it is when it comes to the NFL. Yeah, no, he'll definitely play again. Definitely conditional statement, depending on when, if he faces criminal charges, because if he he does we still don't know if he's going to face criminal charges and i think ultimately that is why um the trade didn't go down because like i know that these teams for the most part were like oh well we don't care if he's

if he can't play next year like that we'll just we'll have him you know that we know that we'll have him maybe the following year if he misses like four to five games next year or whatever. But we just don't know if he's facing criminal charges. Like, we don't know he could go to jail. There is a chance he could go to jail if he's facing criminal charges. We don't know that yet. I know, you know, there are reports out there that the Dolphins wanted him to settle all

of his lawsuits. And previously he had been very opposed to settling all those lawsuits because the women wanted everything out there. Or Deshaun wanted everything out there. The women obviously wanted to keep things a little bit more private for their own safety. And the two sides could not agree on whether the details were going to become public or if they were going to become public or if they were going to meet him private, if they settled. So anyways,

I just think ultimately I think teams were really, really, really close to doing it. And I think what, I think probably this tipping off point was to risk your team's future and give up three first round picks. You have to know he's going to play. So I think the texans my understanding is that they didn't want these first round picks to be conditional first round right they wanted them to just be flat out first round picks which i understand because he's worth that he as a football player he's absolutely worth that price and somebody will pay it once they know what's going to happen to him but without knowing if he's going

to be available next year if he could actually lead a team to the playoffs next year it's like you have to put to be to make this a smart football trade it has to be conditional and i think that was the sticking point because the texans didn't want that obviously but these other teams were like it doesn't make sense for us to risk our future with these straight up first round picks that we don't even know if he's how many games he can play next year, if he can even play at all next year. Like, it's just so unclear right now. I know he'll play again. It's just who knows when. thing is i don't understand like what his team and what his side is trying to do here because if he had just settled these in the over the summer he'd be on another he'd be playing right

now he'd be on another team and yes he could still face criminal charges but you know they have they would have this season essentially to have him play and then maybe we find out in the off season about his criminal charges but i really think if he had just settled these and agreed to whatever it is that the women um and their and their lawyer is asking for i think he would be playing football right now and like i just don't understand like i mean i i don't get it it seems very stubborn and like short-sighted and just like a uh you know a fight to really prove that you're innocent and it's like fine you can believe that but do you want to play football or not like what what do you want so that that's interesting to me because i

feel like if he would have settled i think he would be he would have been traded he'd be playing somewhere i mean the dolphins pretty much like from the reports, he would be a Miami dolphin right now. If he had settled these lawsuits, the crazy part to me, and I'll get this question every once in a while, like after this year, should the Vikings look into it? If they trade Kirk cousins and my thing is always, okay. So he did this before. I wasn't thinking that Michael Vick would have dogs fight again. That's probably

something that he wouldn't choose to get involved with again. This is something that I don't know. I mean, I don't know if you can sort of talk that out of somebody, if that's kind of who they are. And I would be really concerned, not just like the trading draft picks part, but making him your franchise quarterback. Look at how it is shredded the houston texans whole entire organization to have this go down i mean is that something you want to trade a bunch of draft picks and risk having him get in trouble for something similar to this again i mean that seems like i mean you do something like that one time and get or accused of it you're pretty concerned about that person like dude that is

messed up but when you have this mass of people who he has allegedly done it to i would be really concerned that he would go to jail eventually or would get suspended again or anything else i mean we've seen other teams sort of say like pittsburgh with rothasberger guess we'll see uh but i mean that's that seemed to be like one incident not 22 incidents so it almost shocks me that teams are willing to take even that type of risk even if it is conditional yeah I I mean personally yes I agree with you but I'm not surprised that teams want quarterbacks yeah I mean these people are desperate. And, like, Carolina, I think Matt Rule is really, really, really desperate right now. Although I wouldn't say he's on the hot seat.

He'll survive this season, and he'll get to 2022 as their head coach. But I think if you look at that team, he's picked two quarterbacks that are wrong now. They didn't inherit – he didn't inherit a quarterback there. I mean, I guess Kim Newton, but you know, they wanted to move on from him. So, you know, he picks Teddy Bridgewater and that wasn't the right choice. He picks Sam Darnold. That wasn't the right choice. So I think Matt Rule is really feeling the pressure of like, Oh shit. Like I have to pick a third quarterback, you know,

like I have to do this again and like if i get this if i get the third one wrong like i i'm out you know because like who gets to pick three quarterbacks and three consecutive years like that's never happens so i think he's feeling it in the same way that like brian flores and the dolphins are because they i mean and theirs is almost a little bit worse in my opinion, because they could have had Justin Herbert, who was so good. I was always a big fan. I was always a Herbert over to a supporter. So I will, you know, plant that flag whenever I get a chance to, but yeah.

So I think, I think they're feeling it in the same way of like, well, you know, we didn't draft the right one. And it's almost like what the Rams are doing, where you see they drafted Jared Groff, and now they're like, we're never going to draft anyone ever again. Because it's not worth it. And I actually, like, love that. I, like, love what they're doing there. It makes so much sense to me because you never know what anyone in the draft is going to turn

into there's always a level of risk there but particularly with the quarterbacks there's just a huge level of risk you don't know how they're going to transition um you know so if i think it is smart to just be like yeah i have all my draft picks i'm gonna take von miller and i'm gonna take um you know who else matt stafford and i'm going to take, you know, who else, Matt Stafford. And I'm going to take, you know, these guys who I already know how they play at this level. And I know exactly how I want to use them because I've seen them play professional football. So I think that's actually really smart. So, so that's why it doesn't really surprise me because I think that, you know, they, these teams probably view that as a more viable way for success than starting over in the draft.

It is a really fascinating strategy. I think part of it that you really touched on there is it has to come down to job security. I mean, if you're afraid for your job, you're probably taking risks you shouldn't take. But if you are Sean McVay and less need, you probably feel pretty secure with your jobs. Like you've done nothing but succeed there after Jeff Fisher, seven and nine to you for a bunch of years. Right. So you feel like we're, we're in a really good spot. And so we can kind of go all in. If it doesn't work, we'll very likely get some other years to build it back up. Eventually. The only, the only thing I would say about giving away

all of your draft picks for proven players, it's like if Von Miller tweaks his ankle again or something, you just gave up so much and these guys get hurt. So that's another part of it. But I think job security really plays into it. Okay, let me ask you these questions about the middle of the season here. I've really enjoyed the discussion of kind of –

I didn't expect us to go down the Deshaun Watson rabbit hole, but it is something that's like lingering over the NFL. This elite quarterback who had an all-time great start to his career is just not playing football, and no one knows where he's going to play. Okay, how about this? Give me three teams that you think can win the super bowl oh my gosh top three teams on your list that you think if i gave you a thousand dollars i said you got to spend this a thousand dollars 333.33 on three different teams how about that for math? Okay. Okay. Let's go.

I'm going to go Buccaneers. Buccaneers again, unfortunately. I hate picking repeats, but I do think that they are just as good. Even despite losing to New Orleans, they had the bye this week, but they lost to New Orleans the previous week. I think they're still really good. And obviously, you know, they brought back everybody. So it's a very similar team. And, you know, it's not – it stands in, like, stark contrast to, like,

what we're seeing from the Chiefs who have, like, completely just devolved into Lord even knows what. So I would say the Buccaneers not going to pick the chiefs. Cause I just, I don't see it for them. I'm going to pick the Titans and even cause even without Derek Henry, like they were okay. You know? So, cause I think that was a big question mark is like, how are they going to do without him since he just like carried that entire

team. So I'm'm gonna pick the titans and then i think i would pick the packers i think i would pick the packers um because i agree with you i don't think they're gonna start playing like shit because of aaron's drama i think they're gonna be able to get past that and everything's gonna be fine just, I don't see that as like an off the field issue. That's actually going to impact them on the field. Yeah. So I'd pick, I'd pick the Packers too. This would be my three. Folks, have you ever thought about taking a bike to work, but figure it's too far or that the hills are too steep or heck who wants to show up to work covered in sweat?

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The reason I like the question is because they're really, I mean, outside of Tampa Bay, there's no obvious next pick, except though I might say that I buy Zona. I think I'm buying Zona. Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. You could win with Colt McCoy. I agree. I think that says something about them. I think they're legit too.

I do. I do. It's interesting because like the nfc north has like one team only yes um and i was looking at the division lineups before this and or the division records and it's it's funny it's like the nfc north the afc south and then the nfc east are like the same where there's just one good team in the division and then everyone else is like trash um and has like really straight up losing records so there's like one winning record and everyone else is like you know so i thought that was kind of interesting and the rams are not part of my list and they're not part of yours because i think we watching the nfc north are like come on we know we know what he'll do it's what he'll do.

It's what he did the other night. When he did the spinning whirlybird interception, I think you and I probably went like, oh, yeah. Seen him do that a few times. I do love Matt Stafford. I don't know why. I just don't feel like secure in the Rams. I think probably just recency bias of that last game because they had been playing really, really well up until that point.

But yeah, I mean, I am a Stafford fan. Cause I felt like he never got the support he needed or like the help or anything. And now I think he finally has it, but yeah, I think I'd pick Cardinals over Rams.

Me too. I, well, I think that it's clearly true that he didn't get the support a lot of the time, bad coaching or whatever else, but also that he didn't get the support a lot of the time, bad coaching or whatever else, but also that you can't take the Stafford out of Stafford. And I read this morning, like, well, Stafford's got an ankle injury. Like, yeah, he always has a something injury that's like, well, he dropped off in the second half because of that thumb.

It's like, but it's always that. A back injury is coming for him soon, probably. Definitely. So give me a low-key one that you wouldn't be terribly shocked if they ended up in the Super Bowl that are not considered a contender now. The one for me might either be the Chargers or the Browns. I almost want to say the Browns, yeah. Or I love the Chargers too. Yeah, those are both really good picks. I love the Chargers.

I love Justin Herbert. And I think Brandon staley is doing a really good job there um you know they've hit a rough patch over the last couple games um but yeah i would say yeah i would i can't pick between those two if i had to pick between those two i'd pick the chargers um only because i think herbert is better than baker yeah but yeah i think both of those teams are really good really good dark horse picks i might lean browns because offensive and defensive line you get the playoffs like they really do have as good as it gets yeah um give me a team that you were right about and you are like you said flying the flag nailed it with this team and one where you're um trying to delete the tweets um i would say i nailed it with the bears i don't know that i really like published many predictions but just like mental in my mind predictions because at defector it's actually great we don't do like season

previews right all the chores that you'd have to be like okay let me pick my teams like whatever we definitely didn't do any of those so like i don't think i actually published there's no proof of me like saying these things except tweeting thing right um i would say the Bears, just because I actually did tweet that I thought Justin Fields would be the starter by week three. And I was actually dead right about that. Like that was the week that he started his first game. It came in the previous week against Andy Dalton. So I think I was right about that one because I just felt like there's no way Andy Dalton is playing this season. And I didn't think it would be for injury.

I thought he would just end up getting benched. But, you know, it worked out the way it worked out. So that was the team I'm right about. And I also obviously didn't think they would actually be good. I was like, this is going to be a rough year of, like, settling into a new quarterback and quarterback and you know putting a rookie in maybe before they wanted to type of thing um i think i nailed it with them also i think i nailed it with the jaguars again i never published this but i was like this is gonna be so bad and honestly it's probably even worse than i predicted it being um so although they are coming off another win that was shocking so maybe they are going to turn it around but i was just like there's no way urban

meyer is going to be a good nfl coach because there's no way there's zero chance so you know i guess the jury is still out but so far i've been right about that. I mean, his first move was to hire a racist strength coach. Yeah, I mean, so bad. Right off the bat. Whoops. Yeah. No. Not great.

Well, for me, it would be right about McCorkle. Is that how you say his name? Matt Jones McCorkle. Is that how you say his name? Matt McCorkle. Yeah. Well, I thought he would. I just thought he had a good chance to be good. The people were acting like because he didn't run the 4-4-40 that he would just like fall down and not be able to play in the NFL. And well, cheap quarterbacks teams spend a lot of money around them. He hasn't been perfect, but he's been decent. Good. Like he could play in the NFL. So that one I thought would happen. Wrong. I would say, well, I mean,

I think we're all wrong about Kansas city. I don't think anybody expected that to happen. San Francisco is probably where it's the most wrong. When I was looking through the Viking schedule at the beginning of the year, I was like, Oh man, I'm going to go out to San Francisco. Like they're going to bounce back and not worried about the jimmy g trey lance dynamic they'll uh if jimmy g's healthy they'll be great and that sort of thing and they're just not good and then i don't know like i don't know if kyle shanahan's fastball has been figured out or whatever but they're just they're just bad yeah and uh so that looks like an easier game

for the vikings although no game is actually easy for the vikings but that that that's one where i thought i also expected pittsburgh to be horrendous and i guess i should just never underestimate mike tomlin yeah they're not they're bad but they're not horrendous right yeah um that's still good next one for you is just who's the mvp it's tough mvp race i don't even know who it is well that is a good question i was gonna say like kyler um but now he's you know i don't know i guess he's only missed one game so we'll see how that goes with his what was it like sprained ankle i think um and then before that i mean i was it should have been derrick henry but you know a running back will never win um that award but it should

have been him before he got hurt because he was like doing some he was on i can't remember what's there was a stat that i read and i'm not gonna be able to pull it out now but it was just like totally insane he was like gonna shatter all the records for everything. And obviously with an extra game, you know, he would have done this. So I think I would have said him before that. It's a good question. Yeah, I think it would have been Kyler. I think you're right.

I think you're right. I don't think Colt McCoy's one magical day although I do think Aaron has been playing Rodgers has actually been playing really really well um and he won last year was that right last year yeah I don't know if they would vote it for him even if he has a great second half season after this now Brady is a possibility still after you know he had a bad game against New Orleans, but that's possible. You know, maybe the other choice, because it's always going to be a quarterback.

That's how it goes. Maybe if somebody gets hot, because they won't give it to Tannehill even if he plays amazing the rest of the year. But maybe if Dak gets it back and they win like 13 games, that's possible. Right now it's wide open though yeah i agree okay last one for you how many teams at the end of the year fire their coaches or before the end of the year if the vikings lose the next two um definitely vikings i'd say Vikings, Bears That's two Giants I mean my gosh

I don't think the Giants are going to fire their coach Really? I don't know What about the Judgment Day headlines? I know I don't know I'm sort of on the fence about that one Urban won't get fired But he might leave Hard issues I don't know. I'm, I'm sort of like on the fence about that one. Um,

urban won't get fired, but he might leave hard, hard issues needs to spend more time with family. That's yeah. Um, I didn't have Gruden on my list, but that already happened. So, um,

not for the reasons, you know, shocking reasons that we didn't expect. Um, I'm forgetting, like I'm definitely forgetting someone right now what about brian florist you think he's out oh that's a good question um i don't think so i think they'll wait maybe one more year but also if they literally don't win

again then maybe not but you know they just now they're at what two and seven now two and six two and seven they have two wins i think so that's a that's a watch definitely a watch list for that one um i'm definitely missing somebody well i don't think ron rivera is going anywhere. The Eagles might just fire their coach after one year because like, who is that guy? Yeah. He was just here to, because someone needed to run the team. Now we're going to go get a real.

And like the Jackson's won't fire Cully after one year, even though they're so bad. Campbell would be fine, even though they might not win a single game. I'm going to collapse. You know, here's a low-key one zach taylor if if they totally collapse and they end up like seven and ten after a great start yeah i just be like okay someone else needs to drop an offense where more than five people want yeah because he was on definitely on the hot seat coming into this season and then they were doing really well and now i don't know

what's going on so yeah that a, that's a good point. I think I would definitely agree with that. Yeah. Okay. I have enjoyed this conversation. It went in a lot of different places and it always does when we talk. So people can follow you at Kaylin Kaler, which is K-A-L-Y-N. We've gone over that in the past. Sorry, Jalen Holmes got cut by the way. Oh no. Yeah. Yeah.

Anywhere else. I don't even know. Maybe the Texas, the answer is always the Texans. Like probably the Texas picked them up. But you have the, the similar saints. He's at the saints.

Oh, with the saints. Okay. The L before Y is where people can follow you and defector. If you haven't subscribed to defector, it's just fantastic. And I'm really glad that you ended up landing there. It's a perfect fit for you.

So I'm glad we could get together again. And I feel like we can do this again with an end of the season quiz or something like that. We'll get together again soon. Yes. Thanks so much.