Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Let's play Agree or Disagree on bold NFC North statements

Episode Date: April 7, 2023

Matthew Coller talks with Wisconsin's own Bart Winkler about Packers fans being a little too excited for Aaron Rodgers' exit, whether the division should be afraid of the Vikings, if the Lions being the Lions should slow down the hype and if the Bears can be this year's Jaguars. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here and joining me for his first appearance on the show. It's going to be a hot one. Bart Winkler of the Bart Winkler Show and of the Fire Dudes from Radio Club who are now happier people. What is up, Bart? How are you? Well, I'm good. Thank you for having me. I'm excited for my first appearance.

I'm a little worried that it will be my last. I go on. I go on. So I still do some national radio shifts and I I put out these two disclaimers to the national audience. I say I feel like I can talk about your teams. If you want to call, I can talk about your teams. I'm an equal opportunity employer, but there's two takes that you must know that i have one nicola yoka should not be the mvp two i don't understand why anyone in their right mind would willingly be a vikings fan so with that being said thank you for having me well and no one in minnesota can possibly understand why anybody would live in wisconsin so you know i think that uh and yet you know what

i've noticed bart because i grew up in buffalo and then moved here to cover the vikings is that the tailgates outside of either us bank stadium but especially lambo they feature a lot of intermingling of these two states it's the most midwest thing like they dislike each other deeply and yet are still willing to be near each other and cook some form of sausage and then eat it together. So I feel like that's us. Like, even though there's some some real differences here in the way we're going to look at the world, we could still maybe enjoy some meats and talk some football. Well, I do feel like if there was ever like a battle of states or whatever, we would we would end up being on the same team. We would fight for the same causes for the same team if we didn't kill each other first.

We probably have more similarities between Minnesota and Wisconsin than anyone actually wants to admit there is a comedian who i see on youtube and tick tock and stuff always show up who is from wisconsin but does midwest type of humor everything he's talking about also applies to minnesota so i'm sure minnesotans do not want to hear that uh but that's absolutely true so we're gonna look at though uh we're gonna look at all the teams in the nfc north because we've got a minute here to assess. And so I have created an NFC North quiz. I have five statements and you get choices to either agree with the statement, disagree, or I will also let you play the middle because we're in the middle of the country.

So you can also somewhat disagree if you want. So here's where I'm going to start with you, Bart, the right place. Agree or disagree with this statement packers fans should celebrate the beginning of the jordan love era more than mourning the aaron rogers exit do you agree somewhat disagree or disagree with that state well i'm gonna try i'm gonna try to go agree or disagree. Okay. I want to be true to the segment. I agree. Oh, my God. So I'm a Packers fan. We've established that.

I should also mention I'm an owner. My name is Bart. I think I was named after Bart Starr, but I also think I kind of coaxed my parents into telling me that was true. I can't stand this guy anymore. Get Aaron Rodgers out of my life. Get him off my team. I'm so tired of this. It is awful. For a long time, it's been weird because Favre and then Rodgers. I was excited for the Rodgers era. I would have answered agree to see a Rodgers era over a Favre era. And I think the simplest thing it comes down to is how long will they be here? If you're going to make the decision now with Favre, it was, okay, you want another couple of years of Favre or maybe 10 years on a Rodgers best case scenario. And then it was longer.

And it's the same thing to me. Why would you have another year or two of a wishy-washy Rodgers when you can have a guy in Jordan Love. So from that standpoint, at some point you've got to look on to the next thing. Now, I did not like the Jordan Love pick. I thought that drafting a quarterback when they did, trading up for one, was a complete disaster and a really bad pick. But that's the pick they made. And so as time has gone on it's going to become well when

is the start to this era and when's the end of this era on the side note i said i don't like aaron rogers i don't like aaron rogers i think of qualities that people have that i don't like he has every one of them everything about him i do like. There's not one thing I like about him at all. Okay, I know he helps small, but we always got to say, he helps small businesses during the pandemic. We always got to say that. And I do think, like, I think he's a good person. I think he's a good-hearted person.

You know, unlike the monster that is Favre. He's a good person. He's a nice guy. But I just don't like his personality. Still, I was able to root for him on the field. As soon as he put that jersey on, I loved the guy. I'm like, oh my God, I'm so thankful he's our quarterback. That starts to fade away a little bit.

And also, I don't think he's the right quarterback for this team. The reason I know Jordan Love's going to be good is because Aaron Rodgers didn't let him play this year. Aaron Rodgers and the Packers were 4-8. He was hurt. They had every reason to sit him down. Rodgers didn't let him play this year. Aaron Rodgers and the Packers were four and eight. He was hurt. They had every reason to sit him down. The percent of chance of making the playoffs was minuscule.

And then he goes on McAfee show, AKA, let me get out in front of the narrative weekly. And he said, I'm playing until we're mathematically eliminated. And so he, before the Packers could even make a choice, he said what he was going to do.

I think he didn't want us to see Jordan love in five weeks because then this wouldn't have even been a decision. So appreciate what we had. We got a Super Bowl out of him. There's a lot of great memories. Hail Marys and drawing guys off sides and great plays and Jared Cook on the sidelines. And I own you to the Bears. And there's so many great moments that Rodgers gave us. And we won't forget them. But that era is over. And it's time to be excited for the next guy.

Agree. Okay. I like the fact that you're going all in here. I just figured, you know, I'd give you that option of being in the middle, but you're, you're playing this to, to win.

So a follow-up couple of follow-up thoughts. I mean, one is we already found something that Vikings and Packers fans agree on is wanting Aaron Rodgers gone because until Aaron Rodgers is officially out and in New York, the people to your West will not be able to breathe carefully or safely. So let me, let me ask you this. Let me cut you off. Let me cut you off and ask you this. Don't you feel like, and I wonder what the pick would be, but to sweeten the pot for the Jets, I feel like every team in the NFC North should chip in at least a six-rounder

to give to the Jets. Would Vikings fans not, if the Vikings, if you found out as a Vikings fan that Aaron Rodgers got traded and as part of the deal, the Vikings gave a six rounder to the jets and got nothing in return. I'd be like satisfied with that. I think, yeah, I think that every team would do it.

I think all of the teams would say, all right, let's put a couple of dimes in the jukebox here and get them out of there. I agree. But the, you know, the thing is that with Rodgers, I think everybody rationally in Minnesota would say,

okay, like he wasn't as good last year. He's clearly devolving into something different than he used to be personality wise, as you mentioned, like all the attention from the McAfee show, which then he comes back and says, I don't know why you guys are paying so much attention to me. What I I'm not asking for that at all. Just going on this huge show every week and dropping a bunch of, you know, stuff that may or may not even be true. So yeah,

he's created his own drama as has been delusional Aaron Rogers for quite some time yet. Still at the end of last year, the Vikings go to Lambeau and they're thinking, all right, you get a win here. You know, you got a chance at that one seed still.

And Aaron Rogers does some crazy, insane fake thing at the goal line, walks into the end zone. Like I still, the dude is out there making plays that not many quarterbacks make. So I think that everybody is willing to, you know, move on from the nightmare that has been Aaron Rodgers torturing the Vikings for so many years. And he has, I looked this up, a quarterback rating against the Vikings that would win him an MVP in a regular year. That's like higher than Mahomes career is Aaron Rogers just versus the Vikings. So it's really been something, but I guess the other

part of that is Jordan love. I mean, you know, we've established how good Aaron Rogers has been. The, the hard thing for anybody to know is even remotely how good Jordan Love is going to be because you have this little tiny sample size of when Rodgers got banged up and this little couple of plays against the Vikings at the end of the game and a couple of preseasons that's all you got so I mean I could see where you'd be saying like yeah like the the projection for the future of Rodgers is just not good because of how old he is. He's also doing crazy things to his body now, and that can't help to cleanse yourself in a bunch of crazy ways and so forth. He didn't look good physically last year just from his body. But how can you know what Jordan Love's going to be?

Well, and I think that's why I would have liked to have Aaron Rogers shut down for the season so we could see five weeks of Jordan Love. There's been enough in the little flashes where it's like, okay, he could probably play. And I really do take stock in what some of his teammates have said about him. Even before the offseason, Devondre Campbell, one of their linebackers, was talking him up. I think he's better than a lot of ones out there. And so what I wanted to see in the last five weeks was not just how he plays, but how does he play game to game? If Jordan Love wins a game, how does he play the next game? Does he react a certain way to that?

If he loses a game, does he come out and struggle the next game? How does he play over a three-week stretch, four weeks, five weeks? And we were robbed of that because of Aaron Rodgers ego. So I am excited to see what we're going to see, you know, in Rodgers first year. And I hope Packer fans don't freak out too much. Rodgers fans first year, he was six and 10. That was a weird year where, and I really defended Rodgers that year because he would lead a comeback in like four of the games they lost, but there were still 220 left on the clock and the defense would always blow it. And then the stat would be Rogers can't leave it a

two minute drive and he could lead a three minute drive or four minute drive, but then they'd always lose it at the end. So I think some of it has to be optimism, but really I think Aaron Rogers forcing himself to play and playing mediocre in those last five weeks, five touchdowns, three picks. That's I mean, Jordan love could have done that. I think for me, what I'm, what I'm holding stock onto is Aaron Rogers, not letting Jordan love play tells me Jordan love is good. And that's where I'm at. Okay. I don't mind that logic. I think that there's just a lot of value in finding out, right? And because Rogers was never going to be your quarterback for the next five years, it was

one more year or not one more year, basically. So why not find out now if there's something there with Jordan Love? And we've talked about this many, many times in Minnesota with Kirk Cousins, where it's like, you know exactly what Kirk Cousins is. You know how far you can go with him. He's probably the easiest quarterback in the NFL to project to get to the first round and have decent stats and run your offense and some days let you down. And that's what he is. But even if the Vikings were to make a mistake in the draft and not get someone good, at least you would find out. And then that would set you up for the next person. And you know, you know what your future is going to be as opposed to just kind of resting in the middle. There's always that like behind door number two is probably more exciting

than knowing exactly what you're going to get from Rogers and the sporting cast and the receivers still aren't good enough for that team to be a real Superbowl contender. So if you're not really competing for the Superbowl, then it's better to find out if you have somebody to build around. Let's move on to our next one, though. And I think you'll be good on this one, Bart. Agree or disagree, the Lions past history matters and they are going to let everyone down despite the hype. Agree or disagree that the Lions will let everyone down because Lions. I am going to disagree. I think I feel like the Lions might be figuring it out. And, you know, it's a bummer they lost Jamal Williams for them.

He was really good. But they did get David Montgomery, which just completes the NFC North as the division of incest, which I swear we do it more in this division than any other division. It's really weird. Didn't Dean Lowry sign with the Vikings? He did, yes. By the way, he stinks. It wasn't good last year.

It wasn't good. But, no, you're exactly right. I mean, this is the history of the entire NFC North, not just Favre, but there's all sorts of Packers that end up Greg Jennings or even Gilbert Brown showed up here at one point. So yeah, no, anyway, carry on, but you're absolutely right. It's definitely like that. Well, I got more Robert Ferguson, Ryan Longwell, a bunch of, bunch of guys. Yeah, I can't, I thought, okay, nevermind. never mind um i i'm feeling like the lines can be okay and are they going to win the division well the division might be wide open i think that it depends how jordan love does because in the packers if jordan loves good the packers are

capable this division's bad so all it's going to take is somebody to win maybe 10 games and which of these teams is going to win those 10 games. I think the Bears are on the up. We can talk about that. But with the Lions, I'm not like, I think this current Lions team is good. And if people want to worry that, well, in the past they sucked, well, then you can worry about that. But I think the group they have there, they came into Lambeau field on a Sunday night with nothing to play for. And they pretty much ended Aaron Rodgers career as a Packer. And unfortunately I saw that with my own eyes. It was the one game I went to this season at Lambeau field and boy, what a miss that was very, uh, very much regretting that. But I think that they can be

good. Obviously the receivers are getting better. Uh, the defense is getting better. Are they content with Jared Goff, which is interesting like some of these quarterbacks like lamar jackson why are the lions getting him why what there's 20 teams that should be in on lamar jackson and for some reason there's like not even the ravens want to admit that they want lamar jackson so but i don't know because right now jared goff is a top five quarterback in the nfc how bad this conference is i am am not, I'm not, if I'm a Lions fan, I know it's going to be hard, but I'm going to try to close my eyes at history

and look at this team and think we might have something there. So I'm going to disagree. I don't think the history matters, but it would be true Lions form to get everybody to think that and then suck. Well, I think that and then suck. Well, I think that the supporting cast for Jared Goff, including his offensive coordinator is so good that Jared Goff can be.

And I don't mean an elite quarterback in the same way that Joe Burrow is an elite quarterback, but I mean elite offensive production overall to continue to be a top five offense as they were last year because they have good receivers good offensive line they run the ball well they scheme it up for Jared Goff and they don't ask him to really do too much if he just executes that offense it's kind of like it was with the Rams where they had the the good offensive line that's the crazy thing about Goff is if he can drop back set and throw dude is one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. If he has to move like two feet, it's over and he's bad. It's the, it's the, it's very Alex

Smithian of Jared golf. So I don't look at them as a true Superbowl contender, even though the NFC is still very weak in comparison to the AFC, but I don't think that their history matters at all. I mean, you look at a bunch of teams that historically were absolutely horrendous. How about the New Orleans Saints before Drew Brees, just a laughingstock, the Buffalo Bills before Josh Allen, like this happens all the time where teams are down for a long time and then suddenly things click into place and they're a lot better. You have to go back quite a ways, but the Green Bay Packers weren't that great before Brett Favre. So that, that is how it goes.

I would say, though, that it's not without potential potholes, because if things don't go the way that they did last year for them offensively and some of these signings don't work as well as they're expected to, they could end up being a mediocre team again. Like, I think we're just sort of assuming and we do this all the time. Whatever we kind of saw in the second half of last season was the truth for next season. And everything that was wrong has been fixed and nothing new will be wrong. And it will all be fine going into next year. I don't know that that's always the case, but it just seems like who's better on paper from top to bottom for a roster and a coaching staff than the Lions. And I don't think that's anybody in the NFC North.

They are good enough that for at least one year, we can avoid the, should the Lions get a Thanksgiving day game every season? They're good enough that we can table that for at least one year. And I think for that franchise, that's a massive, that's a massive win. When was the last time in your life that the Packers were playing the Lions least one year and i think for that franchise that's a massive that's a massive win when was

the last time in your life that the packers were playing the lions and you were like oh i don't know i mean other than this last week 18 where you thought okay they could come in and win a win before that in your life were you like i don't know this line's pretty good there were some thanksgiving games where we went in there and sucked. By the way, I'm a we guy. I say we just so everybody knows. But really, it was the playoffs with Favre's first super playoff game win where he hit Sterling Sharp at the end of the game. And Barry Sanders, I remember Barry Sanders was here in a playoff game

or a late December game, and they held him to negative one yards. And it was like, it was a, it was a mirror. It was like the greatest thing that's ever happened to me in my life up at that point as a Packer fan. So it's been a, it's been a healthy 30 years. There was a moment there where they were like a 10 win team. Maybe you were concerned about Kelvin Johnson. And I would say there was, I think it was 95, where Scott Mitchell had his one great year that they were legitimately dangerous.

But that's how far you have to go back to say legitimately dangerous about the Detroit Lions. Next topic for you, Bart. And by the way, I, of course, am more on the journalist side so not a wee guy uh but no problem with the we and this is a debate with fans all the time my thing is if you buy tickets and buy jerseys and paid taxes on the stadium and invest your entire heart and soul if you're a fan of a team why would it not be weak right that's that's well if i'm talking to other packer fans i'm not going to say hey uh how do you think the packers will do this year right how do you what did you are you going to go i would say how do you think

we're going to do this year we know what we're saying that's a very that's a very fake argument of anger from some in the media. Yes. So I'm glad you're on the right side of history. Totally agree. Totally agree. All right. So next question for you pertains to the Minnesota Vikings, not we in my world,

but the rest of the division agree or disagree should be worried about the Vikings coming off a 13 win season. So what they did last year will project forward forward. And the rest of the division. Should be concerned that the Vikings will do it again. I would say. Disagree. I don't think they should be worried. About their win total last year.

I think Vikings fans will remember. That they started. The word fraud. I mean everybody said fraud just like the only word that was used with this ncaa women's thing this last week was the word classless like everybody nobody used a different word just like with the vikings it was fraud it was the one word we all stuck on that word i don't think the v Vikings are bad. I don't think they're good. They might be closer to good than bad.

They're not great. They're not, they were not, they should not have won 13 games last year. I don't think a lot of Vikings fans disagree with that, but also they did, you know? And so I can,

I can spout at you all I want about one possession games and lucky and but you won you still won so even if they would have in the playoffs frauded their way to a title they still wouldn't want a title you know it doesn't matter how you do it as long as you win i think that if the nfc north is going to worry about the Vikings, and we talked about the Lions and they may be the other team, but it's just that they might be the best of an average lot. So I think that there's ceilings and floors for every team that are pretty vast. For the Lions, they might have the highest ceiling,

but they do have a floor. And for the Bears, I'm a Justin Fields guy. I think he's good. I'm still not sure their ceiling's over nine wins, but their floor is pretty bad. The Packers could have a really high ceiling, but they could also have a really low floor. And I think the Vikings floor is eight wins and their ceiling is 10 wins. So all they got to do is steal one from these other NFC North teams. Like they should be the favorite to win the North. Just like the Saints should be the favorites to win the NFC South.

Everybody else stinks. So don't be worried about what the Vikings did in terms of the 13 wins. Worry that like, they're just maybe better than you at this point. They've got the best player. Let me just think real quick. Yeah. Justin Jefferson in the division.

I mean, that's going to go a long way. So I think, I think, yeah, I think that if I were to bet on it as much as I don't like the Vikings, I, I think they're the, they're the safe play and it just matters if somebody else is going to have a better year than them. But you, like you said, Kirk cousins,

what does Kirk cousins do? Like Aaron Rogers, we know what he does. He'll get you 13 wins and lose in the NFC championship game. Kirk cousins gets you 12 wins and loses in the first round. So we know that. So I think I've answered the question four different times and I'll pass it over to you. Okay. So here's another one. Historically, we were talking about the lions, like when's the last time you took them seriously? When, how many times since you've watched football, could you not say about the Vikings they'll win between eight and 10 games? I mean, how many seasons have not been that way the entire time

you've been paying attention? It's been a long time. And I think with the Vikings too, as a Packer guy, every time that we look at the schedule, it's an assumed loss when you go to Minnesota. And I can't say that for the other two teams at all. I mean, Detroit at Detroit's an assumed win, unless it's Thanksgiving. Cause there have been some weird days, like I said. At Chicago, it's definitely assumed win. But then, yeah, the Vikings are always an assumed loss, and I do think that's the real rivalry in the NFC North at this point between those two teams.

And it's because those have been the better two teams in the last 10 years. So, yeah, it's 8 and 10, but that's, I mean, that's still a good spot to be, you know, you, you would hope for better, but when you're in a division that is not at its peak right now, although I think trending in the right way, Vikings got to worry about that. I think, I think the lions are trending up. The bears are trending up. If Jordan loves good, the Packers will be trending up and the Vikings are just along a baseline so they're not getting worse but I don't know that they're getting better so that that'll be something they have to look at and that's going to come down to who's the quarterback after Kirk I think so that could go a long way they trade for Lamar Jackson well geez they're super they're a

Super Bowl I don't that's why I don't understand why teams don't like at least try they're a super bowl contender and maybe a favorite in the nfc but if they just like let kirk go away and then struggle to find their next guy for the next five seasons like people can say oh packers you don't know what 20 to 30 years is a bad quarterback so you could go right back to that well but the packers have their guy the the lions i guess golf's still younger than we think the bears have their guy vikings, I guess, golf's still younger than we think. The Bears have their guy. Vikings, who's the next guy? We don't know that yet.

Yeah, no, that's true. It's remarkable to me about the history of the Vikings where they are always a team that you would say is between 8 and 10 wins going into every season. Some of them, they've surprised us, of course. The Favre season, though, I don't even think coming off of how he played with the Jets that anyone even thought thought farb was going to take them where he did uh or the 13 and 3k skeenham season nobody saw that coming it certainly helped that they injured

rogers a few plays into uh the first matchup there but oh they did their fans never talk about that all the time and and packers fans didn't tweet anything at Anthony Barr that was mean they were very polite in the Midwest fashion about that but uh I think that in for this one the other teams should not be terrified of the Vikings but just assume that they know what they're going to be unless something huge changes if they were to get Lamar Jackson then yes they're the favorite for the division they're probably only behind Philadelphia for favorites for the entire NFC. And that's why when people hear debate, well, I mean, Lamar Jackson, I don't know. He's had some injuries or he can't pass.

Or it's like, folks, I guarantee you that Vegas would immediately put them as the number two team in the NFC instantly if Lamar Jackson came here. I think the Vikings could win this division with 10 wins because if the other things don't click into place that need to go right for the Lions or if Jordan Love isn't that good or we'll talk about the Bears in a second, then they could. But I think that they do have a very clear ceiling for this next season. And this year is really about how they transition from the Kirk era into the next era at quarterback. So I totally agree with you that at some point they need to try to break that eight to 10 win mold. The Chicago Bears question is pretty simple. Agree or disagree.

The Bears are this year's Jaguars. The Jaguars had been horrific, had the worst coach in football, Urban Meyer, maybe the worst coach of the last like 20 years. And then they got Doug Peterson. It's not a coaching chains in chicago but they spent a bunch of money in free agency with every free agent signing everyone said i think they might have overpaid and then those players helped them get to the playoffs and win a playoff game is that going to be the fate of the chicago bears in the year 2023 okay i might caveat this one a little bit now that i said okay so i for the for the statement you said i will disagree i think this year's jaguars are going to be the jaguars again because i think everyone's going to doubt them again and i think they're

going to be very good the bears could be next year's jaguars i still think you think they're going to be very good. The Bears could be next year's Jaguars. I still think, you know, they're still assembling some pieces. They bring over these wide receivers. The Chase Claypool getting traded and then vanishing is unbelievable. And Darnell Mooney having a bad year is unbelievable. It seemed to me like what the Bears should have been doing in the last half of the season was almost like when you go up big in uh youth sports and you're like all right guys only shoot with your left hand okay because you're gonna the bears should have been like justin don't run we know you can run the The Bears celebrated their loss to the Dolphins as if it was the biggest win of the season because they saw Justin Fields that was, okay, anyone that was on the fence, he's our guy.

And I do think he is the guy. And I do think he's a good passer. I watched him at Ohio State. He had prolific offenses there. I just think the Bears kind of got into the trap where because everybody else around them was so bad, they just relied on it, but they weren't going to win games. So I think they missed out on an opportunity to have live practice to try to actually implement some sort of offense that could utilize field strength as a passer and improve some of his weaknesses. Instead,

they just let him run 18 times a game. So I like that they made the trade DJ more coming over. I think that was a nice addition to that trade. They still might make more trades to really bolster that team. So they've got a lot of holes, but they have a, they have a path to, to getting that team better. And so if I am a bears fan, I'm looking at, I'm being optimistic. I'm thinking at least our team seems to have some sort of direction. We're not drafting Justin. The biggest mistake they made was Nagy and pace should have started Justin Fields every game.

And for their sake, they should have attached themselves to him. So that if he struggled or did good, they would have said, well, you can't fire us. I mean, we don't want another guy to come in here. And it seemingly worked out for Nagy, maybe not so much Ryan pace, but I think, I think the bears are going to get there. I think good, good days are ahead for the bears. Just might, might not be this year.

I think that they had the exact right process coming out of Nagy and pace, which was to tear it all down and don't just try to live in some sort of fantasy where oh we'll just draft this guy or sign this guy and he'll be the difference he'll fix all the problems they're like no this roster is awful and we need to move on from our guys who are worth something get rid of Khalil Mack get something for him get rid of I mean Roquan Smith is a good player but was in line to make way too much money for them so all right move on from him if they had kept him i could have understood it but maybe they didn't feel like he fit with eberflus the way that they wanted him to so just get as

much as you can for draft capital and cap space and then spend like drunken sailors and try to rebuild this team and then this year give give Justin Fields an opportunity to really show us whether it's a yes or a no. Like is, is he a Josh Allen or is he a Vince Young? Because it's probably not going to be anything else. He's either going to take a big step and be really good, or he's not going to take a big step, throw on the ball. And it's just going to be pretty mediocre. The hard thing to figure out is a, they had the supporting cast it was so awful like is there more there for him or can he ever figure out the other parts that aren't just throwing the ball because you mentioned Ohio State he is a great thrower of the football but it's this sort

of puzzled look like oh I don't know where I'm supposed to throw the football now is that system probably not after two different coaches is Is it wide receivers? Definitely could be because if you're afraid to throw it when guys aren't open, well, okay, I get it. Like you're supposed to throw to the open guys and there weren't any, or is it the dude is just slow when it comes to processing and get sacked all the time, which seems to be the case at the moment. And that's what I can't really figure out, but they could still, even if he passes like mediocre, but they have a better defense this year, better offensive line and a receiver to throw to,

there's still like a seven win team. If he throws the ball really well, they might get to like nine wins. I don't think they have enough to be more than that, but if he throws the ball pretty well, they can be a fairly dangerous team. I think the Bears will win some games that they shouldn't i think that they're they're certainly going to improve i mean they almost couldn't not i would

be stunned if they made the playoffs though yeah i i feel the same way it would be it would take it would take such a massive jump we have just like it's funny about tanking right like it never has to take that long if you do a lot of things right coming out of it um for some of these teams where you're back in competition it might be kind of like arizona after they drafted kyler murray they took big steps forward in that first year after being horrific but weren't quite there uh the last question is agree or disagree. The farthest an NFC North team will go in the playoffs is the wild card round. And let me just add a little shade to this. I still think this is a very, very interesting division, like an extremely interesting division,

despite the possibility you might disagree and say that you know somebody's going to go deep in the playoffs but i think it's sort of funny how every team we're kind of like i don't know and yet um like how good they can they really be and yet there's so many things with each franchise that are going to be like franchise shaping over this next year. This is interesting. So they will, whoever wins the NFC North is going to win or win the division, get a home game. So then I'm trying to think like of the teams. So let's say the Eagles win the East. I'm really trying to do the math here and show the work.

Eagles win the East. Only one team's coming out of the south man so then like the west the ram's gonna be good i don't know what the niners are doing um the seahawks geez i'm almost gonna say yes nfc stinks it's it's good. I think the best teams are the best three teams have to be in the East, right? I mean, we can debate about that or whatever, but I think the Eagles are the best. The Cowboys are still good. They're good, okay? The Giants, I think, are good.

And I think you can be like, Oh no, well, the Niners are better than the giants or I don't trust it with the Niners. I, I, this might be more of a bias. I say, I hate the Vikings. Oh my God. I hate the Niners. I can't stand that team. Nobody gets more like admiration for being mediocre than Kyle Shanahan in this whole league. They, they're, I really can't stand the Niners. The San Francisco 49ers are the NFL's Boston Celtics where people always

assume they're better than they are. And the whole media is in the tank for them for whatever reason. Everyone loves the Boston Celtics. Everyone loves the San Francisco 49ers. Niners don't even know who their quarterback's going to be. They might not, they might even still trade for Rogers now. I mean, nobody, nobody knows what's going on there. So I would say, yes, I'd say the NFC North, you get a home game. You can win a home game as much as we think this division is bad, which it is. Um, give me

one of these teams, the lions, the lions at home can win a playoff game. The Packers at home can win a playoff game. The Vikings at home can win a playoff game. I don't think it'll be the bears. So I will say to the divisional round and then I might, I might cut it there. So I'll disagree. I have a little more hope for the NFC.

I think we can, I think our division, the black and blue, the Norris, we can get to the divisional round and, and that'll be it. Bring back the division names in the NHL for sure. Yeah. The, well, the 49er thing I think from Minnesota, it's probably a different perspective because the Vikings have had so much, so many problems with San Francisco. Well, so have the Packers. I mean, they destroy us. Right.

So there's probably some jealousy there, especially since the 49ers have kind of won the way that the Vikings wanted to win under Mike Zimmer, which was like running the ball, having a quarterback just kind of execute, you know, what they're supposed to do. And then just beating the other teams face in with defense.

That's what Mike Zimmer wanted to do, but it only really worked for like one season in 2017 to be a legitimate contender do you do you think by the way the the quarterback situation's so fascinating they went to the ownership meetings and told everybody in the world brock purdy's our guy i mean are they like waving a flag like someone trade for trey lance that are they trying to like do some misdirection, but they actually still like Trey Lance? Are they going to talk Brady out of retirement? How often do we get to April 6th and we're like,

I don't even know who their quarterback is or what they're doing. Yeah. Didn't they sign Sam Darnold too? Is he there? Yeah. I think Trey Lance is their guy. I mean, I know the Brock Purdy story was nice, but, and it's not like, I'm not thinking like sunk cost fallacy where you have to, you did this for Trey and you trade it, but Trey, they drafted Trey Lance because that's what they want. And the Niners, they, you know, so I do think there's a level of Kyle Shanahan that's overrated. I do have more emotional bias takes towards the Niners than the Vikings.

I thought for a Packers fan that came on and said, I hate this team, I don't understand you could be a fan, I think I can give you rational takes on the Vikings. With the Niners, I can't. I hate them so much. The Niners have a great, like their offense is tremendous. They can get, if you say to the Niners, you have four plays, you have, you have four plays. You start at the five, you have four plays and you need a hundred yards in four plays. And every play has to be at least 18 yards.

They would do it. They do do it better than anybody. They've got kiddo. They got Debo. They got McCaffrey, Brandon. I, even these like the Jawan Jennings of the world can, can do well. So they're, they're very good, but yeah, they got to figure out who their quarterback is. So I don't know. It is very fascinating. Weren't there Trey, Lance, Minnesota rumblings for like a week well he's one of us so that's part of it you know once uh said anytime there's a minnesota connection but also there's the kyle shanahan coached you know kirk cousins and mike shanahan drafted kirk cousins and you know there was some quote where shanahan said he thought he was going to get kirk cousins so naturally and then mike florio has poured gasoline on that fire by saying there were

rumors at the combine that the 49ers and Vikings had some sort of trade talks about Kirk Cousins. I have very much tried to like push back on it a little bit. I don't see why they would do this, but the one thing that does that could talk me into it is, you know, the Vikings restructuring and not extending Kirk Cousins sort of signifies it's like, this is it. This is the last year of him. Not a hundred percent, but it could. And all the quarterbacks from San Francisco get hurt all the time. And so like, not that we can

ever predict really injuries, but if you're Kyle Shanahan, like, could I acquire the healthiest man who's ever played football, Kirk Cousins, who literally misses zero games ever and kind of knows how to execute my offense. So there is like a little like ish sort of connection. Like you can squint and make it happen. And if you're the Vikings and you're looking for your younger quarterback, well, Trey Lance is a younger quarterback that maybe they'd be willing to part ways. So I see where people try to put that together all the time.

I've just never been able to make it work to be a great idea, especially since they've blown the first two years of Trey Lance's rookie contract that he hasn't played. So he still needs like a lot of development, you know, I was thinking just talking that like if Kirk cousins, so we think of Kirk cousins a certain way, he can win 10 games.

He won't go any further than the vision around. If the Vikings and Niners made that trade, people would, people would like think of Kirk Cousins in a new way, even though the Vikings have weapons, they have weapons. They have a lot of weapons, but if you put Kirk then with McCaffrey and Kittle and Debo, I would think if Kirk Cousins is on the Niners, people would rush to say they're going to win the NFC, like trip over themselves to do it, which is very interesting. But that's, again, that's the way that the Niners have a spell over everyone. No, I mean, you're right about that, that they would. And I think with the current state

of the NFC there might be some logic to that but that was also the 2018 Viking logic if you just put Kirk on a team that went to the NFC championship then it'll be different he has a remarkable way of making it the same no matter what like the team has gone down the team has gone up around him and it's still been kind of the same deal uh each. So any more questions that are on your mind? I asked you a bunch of questions. You got any questions for me, Bart? I know we're going to run this on both of our podcast feeds. So does your audience want any Viking insight here?

The one thing I would like to know is at what point in the season, because this happened a lot here, at what point in the season when Z'D Zedarius Smith would go down in a game and it looked like he would never walk again, at what point in the season did you realize, oh, he'll be out there three plays later? Because that really made me mad here. Yes, that did happen several times.

Adam Thielen was actually more known for that last year than Zedarius Smith, but it did happen a few times oh yeah no feeling anymore where did he go uh carolina yeah carolina oh yeah yeah i know that i was gonna say if you have a wide receiver two to pass along but you don't so there is no packers wide receiver two at the moment uh no because they're all ones oh oh yeah of course my mistake romeo dobbs right el lazard is now a jet as is um tim boyle i think is also breaking news big move today in the nfl tim boyle but yeah no the zedarius thing is weird because zedarius like what's a polite way to put this, um, ruined Garrett Bradbury's life like several

times and the lives of the left tackles, whoever it was for the Vikings. So when the Vikings acquired him like, okay, well this guy's a freaking monster. And then he was for like eight games. He just took people's heads off and beat their bodies with it. And then it disappeared. And I think that the injuries you're talking about did catch up with him in the second half of the season because it was a completely different player. And I think he was slowed down and he tried to tell us a few times like, Oh, well, I'm over the knee injury that he had or whatever. So now, so now they're in this weird position of Zedaria Smith made like a goodbye post on social media. And then it was reported that he wants a new

contract, but no one was really going to pay him big money if they cut him. And it's better if they trade him, but they haven't done like tanky things to take apart the roster. So why would you trade somebody who's good at football? And then we just sit here and wait and twiddle our thumbs. So I don't even know what's going to happen, but it seems like that was the way it was at green Bay, where you kind of never knew what was going to happen but it seems like that was the way it was in green bay where you kind of never knew what was going to happen was at arius smith yeah it was everybody's favorite packer when he came uh he did these joint press conferences with preston smith which then i saw he was doing some joint stuff right away so he followed the same playbook he's everybody's favorite to start has some big plays and then just kind of decides that he doesn't i don't know that the the last

year he was here he played like 14 snaps in game one. And then we just like hurt the whole time, but not like real confident about how hurt he was. Or, yeah, it's weird. It's just it's just he's one of those guys that, you know, the announcers get fooled at in every time. Is it Darius? Oh, my gosh. It's a Darius. And they play the slow Fox music. And then three plays later, it's a Darius on the tackle. You know, it's like, well, yeah, of course he was coming back in. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, I think the back surgery and the knee issue last year kind of says maybe it's time to just kind of move forward and look for your next edge rusher. But anyway, the Bart Winkler show, I don't know if it's for Vikings fans, but it might be. But it might be for Wisconsinites, of which we do have.

You wouldn't believe it. Some people in Wisconsin who are Vikings fans, but also like the Brewers, the B, and whatever else you've got over there, hockey teams and so forth. College hockey teams. There are college hockey people. Yeah. I would say if you've got any crossover that's into the Brewers or especially the Bucs, we do live shows after the Bucs game. It should be a fun summer with them.

But, yeah, if you're a Vikings fan, I would only listen to the shows after the Vikings beat us and then relish in that. That's one thing in radio that would drive me nuts. We're on the border of Illinois and Wisconsin and Milwaukee, close enough, where you can get the radio signals. And so I would be all pumped up after our big Packers went over the Bears. And people would tweet in, not listening today, listening to Chicago radio. It's so funny. I'm like, oh yeah, great.

Well, it's just my livelihood that you listen to me and we bank on these after Packer week. So I'm glad you like your friends in Chicago. So after you're done listening over here, then you listen to me. It's a great idea, everyone. Hate listen to Bart when the Packers lose. That's a great idea. So it was great to get together with you, man. Love to see what you've done in the post radio world. And we're very similar in that way, working with blue wire and so forth.

And you're off and rolling. Great to see. So if you are so inclined, go check out Bart's show. And otherwise we'll do this again because it was a lot of fun, man. Thanks for doing this. If your listeners will have me back, I'd be happy to come back.