Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Let's talk about the Vikings' defense with Cody Alexander

Episode Date: September 26, 2020

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We've done a couple articles together. A defensive, is it okay to call you genius? I think that's okay. Guru at least. Genius at best. Cody Alexander, the co-defensive coordinator at Mesquite Horn High School. Matchquarters.com is the website does it writes books does a ton of great content and I have learned oodles about how defense is played from this man so Cody it's really great to have you on well I I appreciate

it and thank you for having me on uh I want you to just fix the Vikings defense. Go. You got half an hour or so here on the podcast. Just fix the Vikings defense. No, let's start off with a little philosophy here, though, before we get into some of the real serious issues that they're facing and maybe there are some solutions to that. But philosophically, Mike Zimmer started out week one attempting to make up for his defensive line shortcomings by blitzing. And Aaron Rodgers smoked the ever-loving hell out of that.

And then in week two, he decided to versus the coverage, and even which strategy, like being more aggressive with the blitz or trying to give help to your struggling young corners, like which one of those strategies do you think is better? Yeah, that's always kind of the big question, and it's kind of like where do you sit on a scale? Does the rush matter more than the coverage piece? I do feel like, though, if you go and look at what Bill Belichick has done with the Patriots and the amount of capital that he's put into that secondary, not so much at the D-line, because I think

in his mind, you can manipulate the front and you can manipulate the coverage to get guys into one-on-ones or winnable matchups, whereas in the secondary, you can't. You can either cover that guy or you can't cover that guy. And the two things that I noticed really in the two games for the Vikings was just how soft the outside coverage was and then also just kind of when they're in zone being manipulated like that in terms of being able to run the ball or, hey, we're light here, so we're soft on the edges and being able to take that. Because if you go and you look, it's not really where rogers was throwing the ball and earthstone

ball and it's it's outside they're not getting beat over the top because they're in zone they've got two really good safeties where they're getting beat though is on that outside and so you know is losing everson griffin a huge deal probably a little bit. But if you look at kind of the, you know, the PFF rates, how close linemen get to the quarterback every time, the Vikings are over five yards, whereas other teams are closer to under four or right there at four. And that's when you're not getting a rush, you're really putting pressure on your corners and your safeties

to play man coverage, because once that receiver gets about 10 yards deep, it's going to be pretty much man coverage. Right. Even if you're trying to play a zone coverage over the top, eventually they're going to find ways to do that. And especially with the Packers, they spread the Vikings out. And so it didn't really matter. I mean, when you've got three or four wide receivers, five wide receivers spread out, somebody's got to be on somebody one-on-one and the Vikings got roasted a lot in those situations. Now, I wonder about the blitzing element because this is a question I get all the time is, hey, shouldn't Zimmer just start dialing up all these exotic blitzes? And I guess my answer is in the past, he's been really brilliant with it on third down and 10,

but that's when you are a hundred percent certain that Aaron Rogers is going to throw. And it just doesn't seem like they're going to be in third down and 10 as much as they used to, but should they try to be more aggressive with some of those blitzes in early downs? And what are some of the potential pitfalls there? Yeah. So I talked to several people this summer, and I did a piece for my match quarter sub stack where I talked – I had a conversation with Coach A, and I talked to several –

I talked to Warren Sharp, who does Sharp Analytics, works with – consults NFL offensive coordinators. I talked to several different defensive coaches at the college level. What are some trends? What are we seeing? And one thing was is that first down win rate. You have to be aggressive on first down, offensively and defensively. That you can't, too many times defenses are static on first down,

yet offenses are aggressive. Well, as we know, you know, football kind of emulates kind of war you know we see that all the time well being aggressive early and kind of putting the punches early has been very successful for offenses and that's one of the trends that you're seeing through the NFL is that attacking downfield on first down not necessarily settling in and saying okay three yards in a cloud of dust on first down let's's see where we are on second down. And then hopefully we can get close to the chains on third down. Now what you're seeing is let's be play action, kind of quick motion heavy on first down, really get the defense on its heels and attack downfield when first down so that we have a

manageable second and third down and really hope to not see third down. I think that's the other key. You want to not see third down. And for defenses, now that offenses are being so aggressive on first down, remember, defense is always reactionary. So you're always going to have coaches that are a little bit behind, especially ones that maybe not necessarily are paying attention to the analytics or paying attention to where the trends are going. And I think one of the major issues is on defense,

if you're just sitting in a 4-3 cover two look on first down and that's static and that's what you're doing, you're going to get beat more often than not just because you're not being the aggressor. And I think sometimes where you see success on defense is sending some five-man pressures, having some run blitzes, having some four-man pressures where you, you know, what are called replacement or creeper pressures where you drop somebody where they're not expecting, but you bring somebody from another point, kind of manipulating that, but staying run sound, you know, don't sell out on first down because you're probably going to get bit. But having those five man or replacement pressures early to where you're good in coverage, but you're also sound versus the run. I think that to me is where defenses are going to have

to start adjusting to kind of put the aggression back on the offense. Right. And this team's not going to be sound against the run at any point. They're going to get run against, especially this week when they go against the Tennessee Titans. Now, when I'm thinking about how you could succeed with a defense that has a lack of talent in some areas and then younger players in other areas, there's one thing that comes to mind of a potential solution, and I think of it through the expected points added realm, and that is big plays. That is,

if you get a sack, if you get an interception, that you can change the game that way, even though on a play-to-play basis, you're maybe not doing that. And in the past, the Vikings defenses have been play-to-play so sound, and so strong, and everybody's in the right spot, and they're getting four-man pressures, and Linval Joseph is shutting down the middle, that they didn't have to sell out to try to make big plays. But there was a study about what a sack does to your expected points added. If you get a sack, you almost, I mean, your chances to score just plummets on that particular drive.

And, of course, an interception is a game-changing play, too. So what can a defense do if that's how they're going to go about it? I don't know if Zimmer will, but when you look for potential solutions, there might not be many more than that to try to be more aggressive and sell out to make big plays. Right. So taking third down out of it, and if you're not familiar with kind of the rationale of a football coach, third down, especially in the NFL, which is so pass heavy, is its own entity. You plan third down on its own. You probably have a time during your week where all you work is going to be your third down scenarios. So how do you become more aggressive is on that first down, you know, what I alluded to was

having some five-man pressures, whether they're fire zones, whether they're man pressures, whether you're doing like half-field zones or anything like that. But having five man pressures where if they do pass, you're adding that extra guy, or if it's a run, well, you've got a hat on a hat and everybody's kind of, everybody's kind of near the line of scrimmage anyway, or the ball has to be to get out quick. That is kind of, to me, what the answer is going to be for a lot of,

for a lot of defenses now is how can we manipulate pressure on first down by staying coverage savvy, but also really being aggressive on if they're going to run the ball, they're going to get a zero yard gain. Because if you can sit there and be in second and seven, that's a huge difference between a second and four or a second and three.

Because now the offense has the ability to take a shot down the field. You know, I was looking at it today with my players, and we're getting ready for our opponent this week, and we're looking at the shot tape, and we're noticing, you know, I'm telling them, do you notice a trend? These are second and medium downs. It's all, you know, it's once we cross the 50.

So having, you know, offenses are all, it doesn't matter what level you are. There are certain things that they want to do at certain times. And if I get a second and medium, I'm automatically thinking, okay, here's where the shot's coming. Now they can take a shot downfield because now they're in a manageable third down if it's incomplete. And so for me, it's winning first down. I think everybody that I've talked to from a power five defense coordinator to a consultant to the NFL, to what do I want to try and do as a high school coordinator is I want to try and win first down. That to me defensively is where you are changing the game, because if you can get that negative EPA on first down and you can get that

sack on first down a tackle for loss on first down now you are looking at a second and 12 a second and 15 and that really kills a drive early in the down so instead of focusing so much time on being aggressive on third and winning third it really should be let's kind of try and get away from a manageable third down at all. Really look at first down and be aggressive on that first down. I want to remind you to go to SodaStick.com to get all of your original Minnesota sports inspired goods. If you have not seen it yet, you've got to check it out. A couple of my favorite designs are the Purple People Eaters and the Hooked on a Thielen

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The next time you go shopping, make the choice to shop at local businesses and look for the contactless symbol and tap to pay with a contactless visa to help support your community because where and how you shop matters visa everywhere you want to be official partner of the nfl and i think this plays into how big of a loss michael pierce was for the vikings is that that was always zimmer's philosophy if we've got linval joseph in there and he can stuff runs and they can get, you know, gaps for linebackers to shoot through and create tackles for loss that they're going to set up those second down and longs and make things a lot more

difficult. Now I think NFL teams are starting to realize, Hey, second and 10, you can run a play action and there's no rules against that. It'll still work for you, but still you don't see it all the time with teams running play action, second and 10, you can run a play action. There's no rules against that. It'll still work for you. But still, you don't see it all the time with teams running play action second and 10. It's either handoff again or go into a straight drop back. And that's exactly a win for you, I think, as a defense. Now, I want to talk about two specific kind of positions here. Now, you and I talked about Anthony Barr once upon a time for an article that I did.

And now he's out for the season. And I think that there's a gap between kind of what the PFF stats say about Anthony Barr and what the coach sees in Anthony Barr. And maybe from a, because I know all the stats, well, maybe from a coach's perspective to have someone who's 6'5", 260 pounds, who can play, you know, cover a lot of space in zones and who can play the run well and who can blitz uh really successfully i mean how much of a loss is that for the vikings to not have someone who's so unique on defense yeah and i think that's the thing with pff that you always have to have a grain it's all i love pff i think i think it's it's a good little marker for people to kind of see where kind of an objective look at did they win it down, did they not win it down. But I think coaches look at it more broad picture of what were you supposed to do on that play in that scheme, you know, and it puts context to it. But a player like Anthony Barr, I really feel like that athleticism that now you

just open up so many more opportunities. And like you said earlier, you can play your base when you just have better athletes than the other team. And so Anthony Barr obviously is one of the elite athletes in the NFL, being that big, being able to move that well and be able to play coverage, but also be wreck havoc on a blitz. Now people have to identify where he's at. Well, now that you're playing with really just – you're not playing with an elite athlete like that. You're not playing with an elite player like that.

Now it kind of takes a little bit more pressure off that offense. Now they can start looking around and saying, okay, who can we pick on? And what you've seen in the first two weeks is really it's been the corners. It's been the outside edges. Not a lot deep because obviously, you know know and we've talked about this before the Vikings have one of the best uh safety duos in the NFL uh but that you know attacking the edges getting away from the better players which would be the be the safeties basically taking them out of the game by using reduced sets and getting them in too high where they have to fill gaps and really in a cloudy, in a cloudy muddy mess from deep, you know, hitting the edges,

forcing the corners to make tackles, you know, having linebackers that are sitting there having to read, run and pass. And where do you fit in that? And that's where I think if you don't have the talent is that you create your opportunities by, hey, this guy's not really great at reading the pass or the run. So being able to use him and, like, say, look, I'm going to make this really easy for you. You know, I'm going to rush you.

I'm going to kind of bring your rush percentage up a little bit more. Or, hey, we're going to use this five-man pressure. We're going to be gapped out over here. So all you have to do is literally just spit off the running back. You know, do things like that instead of where you have to necessarily sit back and read because, like you said, the Vikings have typically been really passive on early downs, and then third down you get exotic, which I think a lot of people in the NFL do that because it's a man's league.

It's a matchup league. It's a matchup league. It's do you have the cat versus their other cat, and can they match up and where that matchup is. Do you have the cat versus their other cat is a great football sentence, I think. So with linebackers in the NFL, the Vikings obviously still have a great one in Eric Hendricks, but it's, to me, a position that does rely on a lot of other things. linebackers in the NFL, the Vikings obviously still have a great one in Eric Hendricks, but it's to me a position that does rely on a lot of other things. And so, you know, for Hendricks,

last year he's rated by PFF, for example, as one of the top three linebackers in the NFL, if not the best. And I think from a coverage perspective, that doesn't change much. But from the run perspective, when you have a struggling defensive line, this is where it could be a major problem for them. And so I think that what we're going to see is that the grades for someone like Eric Hendricks go down because they really can't stop those offensive linemen from getting to the second level. Right. And so then again, it goes, what's the difference between PFF and what a coaching grade is, is that PFF is just looking like, look, did you win the down or not? Did you get blocked?

Did you get out of it? Did you make a play on that down? And whereas the coach is going to look at it and say that, well, that's not really on the linebacker. That's on the three technique, not being able to control the guard. Or that's on the nose, not being able to demand a double team. And so, yeah. So, you know, again, you take those grades.

Those are good markers. It's kind of good to see. And it's kind of analytically a good way to look at it. But in terms of like a coach sitting there thinking it's like there's a lot. If you see a linebacker's production go down and then you also realize, well, the D-line is kind of in shambles right now. You're missing one of your better D-linemen. You don't have Anthony Barr.

You know, you can kind of see like, okay, well, now there's a definite issue there, there's a reason why that production went down, not necessarily the player can't play anymore, but it's like, okay, now how can we fix that issue, is it, do we move the line a little bit, do we try and do some more pre-snap movements, do we try and send pressure earlier on downs, and so I think that's going to kind of be the evolution of the season is of what do you do when you don't have anything? Like, you know, genius is always created out of, you know, and innovation is always created out of, you know,

kind of having one hand behind your back or being backed into a corner. And so how are you going to match? Now, hopefully, and Zimmer has proved over the years, he's been a great defensive coach, that he can figure it out. Whereas some other guys, you know, you're like, well, no, I'm going to pound this square peg into this round hole. I'm going to make it work. So I think that's kind of one of the major issues.

And two, even I think a lot of defenses are going through this right now of just like, you know, where are we going with this? We have a lot of injuries. We have guys opt out. Where are we going with this? How can we fill these holes? And what in our scheme and in our world can we do to adjust? And I think the first four weeks of the NFL is going to be really telling,

and hopefully you're not sitting there 0-4. Hopefully you can win a couple games and get 2-2 or 3-1, and so now you're on the uptick. Do you remember the old NFL films from the 90s, and they'd go through every team and their season, and it would be the big voice guy, and they would always have a name for it? What do you do when you don't have anything? Will be the name for the Vikings 2020

season, for sure. I want to, I got two more things I want to ask you about. One is the three technique position, because it is nothing short of disaster at this point. I mean, so they had Shamar Steffen playing that last year, and he's kind of the run stuffer, and then they would mix in situational rushers to that spot. In the past, they've had some really good players there. Tom Johnson, Sharif Floyd before he had a career-ending injury was kind of an up-and-coming star there, and I just feel like this has become a superstar position at three technique in the NFL that we saw DeForest Buckner game wreck. We saw Chris Jones in the Super Bowl wreck the game and the Vikings have not spent draft capital on this position in quite some time and I think it's really come back to

bite them so I wonder if you've seen an evolution of that position or if it's just more beasts are playing there yeah I think when you know it's really the under tackle is really where it started with the Tampa 2 and Warren Sapp is probably the best version of that. When you run a four down front, your three technique has to be a dude because he is essentially man on man with that guard. And if he can't win, if he can't win that, you're in a little bit of trouble. You know, you can kind of do some different things with the nose, moving around from a shade to a G, which would be a two-eye to stack the guards to kind of help out the backers.

You can do some different things. But your three technique really is going to be at the point of attack because that's where you're setting your strength defensive line-wise and a four down. And then on passing downs, he's got to be able to win that. He's got to be able to win that matchup with a guard. He's got to be more athletic than that guard. And I think for, you know, and it depends.

If you want your linebacker rushing the passer, you know, hey, that guy can just be a run stuffer, pin the B gap, demand a double team, you know, try and do some other things that way. But if you're just looking at it and you're like, look, we're a 4-3 cover two team, you have to be able to have a win at that three technique. And I think if you look at how the NFL has progressed is that, you know, that three technique piece and being able to attack that guard

is something that hasn't gone away. It's just what you said. Kind of now teams understand how important that is and they've actually put capital into that position. Just like you would, you know would put a little bit more capital into an edge rusher, a corner, having at least one safety, having a linebacker that can guard a tight end. I think that those are the trends that you're seeing,

but some things have never gone away, and that's edge rushers and three techniques that can rush the passer. Because once Warren Sapp hit and everybody was like, oh, my gosh, we can have an edge rusher and now somebody that can rush the passer because once Warren Sapp hit and everybody was like, oh my gosh, we can have an edge rusher and now somebody that can rush the passer from a three technique and we're guaranteed if we put them both on the same side to get one-on-ones, that to me is where if you're going to run a four down front, you've got to be able to win. Get back to the conversation in just a second, but even though sports took a break,

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and I'm going back like maybe the 90s or something, but I remember defensive ends coming in at 290 pounds a lot of times and now if you put if you're 290 pounds and you could rush the passer you're not a defense then you're probably a three technique and so that's kind of where those guys have gone and instead of being three four outside linebackers you are if you're 260 or 250 pounds you're an edge rusher and it's sort of and and you used to be a safety if you're 260 or 250 pounds, you're an edge rusher. And it's sort of, and you used to be a safety if you were Eric Kendrick size, but now you're a linebacker. And it's a fascinating kind of evolution of how these defensive positions and just the shapes of the players have changed.

Okay, last thing. ESPN tweeted something out that the Vikings run the least amount of plays that have motion right at the snap. So someone's going in motion right at the snap. So someone's going in motion right at the snap. Now, I'm sure that this could be a one-hour Cody Alexander presentation on pre-snap motion and all the things that does to a defense. But my question for you is, should the Vikings be using it a lot more? Because right now they're dead last.

And I know that ESPN has looked at this and found that there's some correlation between having success when you have someone motioning right at the snap but not everyone all the time has always done this so I I'm curious from a defensive perspective what that does when the offense is using a lot of pre-snap motion yeah I mean you go and look what the Packers did to the Vikings and using that jet motion leverage and then the Packers against the Detroit last week using their man coverage against them by using quick motions near the line of scrimmage, getting people moving. And what it does is, one, it IDs the coverage for you,

and two, it gives that offense leverage. Because remember, defense is reactionary. They don't know that they're going in motion. So once that receiver goes in motion, now that defender is a step behind. If you're playing man, you can run that receiver through a bunch of trash if you have a reduced set, or you can use that receiver to try and out-leverage that defender with speed, which is what a lot of times what you see the Kansas City Chiefs do.

So I think if you use pre-snap motion and really just motion, they call it snap motion. So it's motion going while the ball is snapped. So the receiver's moving when the ball is snapped. And again, I think what they've shown is that uses leverage against the defense everybody's reacting to the motion they're plussing their alignment they're moving around they're readjusting and then boom you know the ball snap and you're either running downhill where you just moved a guy or you are throwing the ball out to somebody that has leverage on their man.

And I think ESPN even did a thing last year where they looked at the Ravens offense, and their EPA went from a.08 to.11. That's a 3% percentage point better than what you would – EPA than what you would have on a designed run. So a lot of offenses are starting to figure out, you know, the 49ers have figured it out. The Rams have kind of figured it out. The Packers with Rodgers embracing the pre-snap movement and things like that have started to figure out, look, if we're moving,

then it's putting a lot of stress on defense. You know, Nick Saban has always said, you know, of all the times that he played, Clemson. Clemson uses a ton of pre on defense. You know, Nick Saban has always said, you know, when he, of all the times that he played Clemson, Clemson uses a ton of preset movement. And it's eye candy. It's something that, oh, there's somebody moving in front of me, even though I'm trying to read my key, I have to be cognizant of leverage of other receivers. We're going from a three by one to now a two by two. We're going from a two by two to now i'm going to two back it all of these movements and motions affect the structure of the defense and they do it at such a rate that the defense doesn't really have time to adjust you know and i think the other trend that you're

going to see along with that is people are going to line up and empty and they're going to see where you put your guys they're going to identify and they're going to move the tight end around because in the NFL you don't put a DB on a tight end or you put a certain safety on your tight end and they're going to see if you're in man or you're in zone. And that happened – the Packers did that against the Vikings. They moved the guy. You know, they have the tight end go split out as the number one receiver.

Then they motion him back in. They know that they're in zone. They know that now they have a soft edge to the tight end. And what do they do? They run a jet sweep. They did it in the red zone. I think it was like in the third quarter against the Packers. So you've got the ability now to use pre-snap shifting,

then post-snap movement. And so that motion rate versus snap motion rate, I think you're only going to see that climb. And defenses are now going to have to plan how do we have checks that aren't affected by motion and shifting. And that to me is going to be, that's more stress on the defense. I knew that was going to be a great breakdown. I wrote it down.

Ask him about the pre-snap motion and the Vikings not using it because that would be right up your perfectly giant football brain alley so Cody Alexander that was fantastic breakdown matchquarters.substack.com you have joined the substack nation and so we're we're brothers in that people should check that out and you have all sorts of great stuff you can ask you football questions you have conversations with coach a you got lots of great stuff people should that out. And you've also written books on defense. So if you're a football coach and you want to learn more about different defensive strategies, you've got a ton of books. And I don't know, and this is from someone who spends all their time

in football. I don't know where you find the time, but it's amazing. So Cody Alexander, a must read, must follow. And by the way, I wish you the best of luck. You've taken time here with a game this week that you're getting ready for to talk with me. So I really greatly appreciate that. And I wish you the best of luck for your team this year, Cody. Hey, thank you. I appreciate it. And as always, thank you for coming on. If you aren't a coach and you want to read a book about what's going on defensively, my second book, Hybrids, is a great book that kind of breaks down some of the things that we're talking about and the evolution of how we got here and kind of where we're moving on. So it's not all X's and O's all the time. But again, I do appreciate it. And thank you again. Yeah, and I also appreciate how much fans now want to understand better what's going on on the field, because that allows me to have conversations like this.

It was great. So make sure you check it out, matchquarters.substack.com. And we will catch you next time on Purple Insider. The wait is finally over. Football is back. You might not be at the game this year, but you can still be in on the action at BetOnline. BetOnline is going the extra mile to make sure that you can get in

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