Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Lindsay Rhodes on what will determine Darnold's future; Andrew Krammer with Combine scoops

Episode Date: February 27, 2025

From the Combine, Matthew Coller is joined by Lindsay Rhodes of Sumer Sports to discuss how a Matthew Stafford trade could decide Sam Darnold's future. Then, Andrew Krammer joins the show to discuss Kevin O'Connell's remarks in Indy, as well as the scoops he's picked up from the Combine. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

TD Direct Investing offers live support. So whether you're a newbie or a seasoned pro, you can make your investing steps count. And if you're like me and think a TFSA stands for Total Fund Savings Adventure, maybe reach out to TD Direct Investing. Hey everybody, welcome inside the NFL Combine. Matthew Coller here.

And look who it is in person. In person. Lindsay Rhodes, formerly of NFL Network, now doing the Sumer Sports Show with Sam Brookhouse, who is a very popular guest, as you are as well on the show. And doing it in person is a lot better than the last time we tried to connect at the Super Bowl. With no Wi-Fi. Where you had no Wi-Fi, and you were walking through halls

and trying to find spots to do it on your phone. And you know what? We actually pulled off a pretty good conversation. So I give you credit for that. This is a lot easier. What's going on? What are you here mostly talking about on your show? Trying to figure out.

So one of the things that I think just is the crux, I would say, of sumer Sports is kind of roster optimization. And so this is obviously that time of year, and trying to figure out the strategies involved with the draft, what's going to happen, how that affects the, you know, what happens at the top, how that affects everything else. The, just trying to talk to everyone here,

which is so helpful, these face-to-face conversations and off-camera conversations, and just kind of collecting a lot of opinions, and stacking them on top of each other, which I think sometimes when you're having a lot of conversations about these things, it helps you inform your opinion, because you realize how you feel

as you're having the conversation. And so this week has been super helpful. It's still relatively early in the week, but it's been fun. You're really good at it, too, because everyone likes you. Like, I could just imagine everyone wants to tell you exactly what's happening with their team. So what have you learned? Give me something.

You got anything good? Yeah, no, I have no insights from teams. Sorry, I have nothing. Well, here's what I will say. I'm talking to more, I should frame the context of who I'm talking to, since you just framed it as a team situation. The more like draft analysts,

and then position specific evaluators, people that are watching tape, and then kind of getting a feel, I think, for how they view the class and One of the things I think is the most interesting thing always but specifically this year is the quarterback group and in conjunction with the free agency group In conjunction with the people who might be available to be tagged and traded

Or just traded in the case of Stafford. I mean, we've got quarterback, like quarterback movement all over the place. And I think that the draft class not being particularly strong is really interesting in a number of different ways. One, because I'm hearing from everybody that the top two are going to go in the top five no matter what, which I'm not 100% sure that I believe, but that's what I'm hearing consistently. But I'm also hearing a lot of concerns about the talent level attached to, I would say more Shadoor than Cam. I'm hearing a lot of people that are kind of actually in on Cam Ward and then I'm hearing Chidur they like him but maybe think

that he doesn't have a particularly high ceiling. He feels like a low ceiling quarterback and to me I'm like you're gonna get that in the top five like a low you know just a person to play quarterback and it kind of feels like that's everyone's read is that they're not sure how good he'll be in the NFL but that a team could actually put him on the field and I don't know if I'm feels like that's everyone's read, is that they're not sure how good he'll be in the NFL, but that a team could actually put him on the field. And I don't know if I'm excited about that in the top five. So I'm curious about what happens.

And I don't think in previous drafts, we've seen that type of quarterback go in the top five. We've seen like a Bo Nix is a mid first, a Kenny Pickett is a mid first. And we've also seen that if teams don't believe in a high ceiling, they won't do it. Like it they will rather say we'll just find something else rather than make that investment because the investment in the quarterback is your career as a coach it's your career as a GM you can sometimes kick the ball down

the road with a trade or something like that and now with a Sam Darnold being available potentially we think then that feels much safer since we've seen a Baker Mayfield repeat it, since we've seen a Geno Smith repeat it, and the same questions existed for those guys. Well, you know, Baker did it for one year, can he do it again? Geno, the same thing, and I think that in the right circumstances, Sam Darnold could be good for another team, but how do you think, here's what I want to know from you, how do you think these dominoes fall? Because the Vikings have to franchise tag him

within the next few days here. Matthew Stafford trade, is it materializing fast? Is it slow? Because if they were to trade Matthew Stafford tomorrow, then Sam Darnold tag and trade to the Rams makes so much sense, but if they can't get a trade with Stafford done anytime soon, then you're looking at the soon, then you're looking at

the Raiders, you're looking at the Giants or Wildcard teams. I feel like the timing of all this is kind of funky. It's very funky. And I, going back to the first domino to fall, I'm just having a hard time wrapping my brain around the Stafford trade conversation. And I listened to your conversation with Chris Trapasso yesterday about the Giants and the buzz, that that's real. And I just am having a hard time,

I get it from a Giant standpoint, 100%. I also do think that the fact that if they were to do that or express interest in a real way about doing that, that is a strong statement about Shador to a degree, right? Because that's one of the teams that I had heard linked to him, that he will make it past three. And so I think that if they go out and they actually give up assets, while it in some ways makes sense

that you would go get somebody who's a proven commodity, he's also an aging proven commodity. And we've seen what that has turned out to look like in the case of Aaron Rodgers, which has been not great, which is not to say that that's the trajectory that Matthew Stafford's on, but we've already started to see a little bit of inconsistency. And I know some people would argue that he historically has been a little bit of a roller coaster, but this past year, I thought that, you know, there were definitely the same highs that we have traditionally seen from him, but there were more consistent lulls that felt inexplicable to me.

And it feels like a weird year for him after which to be asking to go make a lot of money. But I don't understand from Ram's standpoint how they go replace him and why they would be interested in this. I kind of think that this is a you want to make more money, go talk to everybody and then like Ian Rappaport framed us, he came on our show yesterday and said they can go work out a deal with the Raiders and say okay they're gonna pay me 55 million dollars and then they can come back and say, we're going to give you a fifth, and they can go, no thank you. So you still have to work out the trade comp there,

and do you want to pay somebody top of market and give up high draft capital? There's just so much complication there. Right, I think for a team like the New York Giants, I always like to think about desperation. Like who's desperate? Who needs to save their ass, basically? The New York Giants need to save their butts

because they are under pressure from their ownership that they're gonna get canned if they don't compete for the playoffs next year. That sounds like you trade as much as you can. I think that's what Chris Tripasso was saying, is like the Giants would be willing to push the chips to the middle of the table just to save themselves, give themselves another year,

and maybe they still do draft Shudder Sanders so they can say to their owner, hey, we've got next year. But it's not the same as playing for Sean McVay with a good supporting cast of Puka Nakua and a running game and everything else as it might be. I like neighbors, everyone loves Malik neighbors,

but the rest of that Giants team has not helped any quarterback over the last few years. So from the Rams perspective, why would they do it after winning a playoff game and looking so good unless they had another option like Sam Darnold? I do like Sam. I do like Sam. And I heard you guys having that conversation, too. I like Sam with the Rams because he definitely checks all the boxes that we've said forever about Sam, that he, I think my concern about him

hitting free agency and finding another team and even trying to get the most money this year was that he cannot go and he and his team must know that he cannot go to a team that doesn't have the pieces around him to have success. Or else this is just a short-sighted thing. And are people signing him to a long-term deal right now? Probably not, it's probably, you know,

you're looking at like, I don't know, a couple of years. I think he's still in a bit of a prove it situation because it's only been one year for him. And so you wanna see it in a different environment. I am not convinced that we would see it in a different environment unless the environment was good. And the Rams are the perfect example of one that is. That's the thing about the Darnold situation.

There's just so many moving parts. It's like, well, this has to happen, but then also this. So it's like, for example, if he's being traded to the Rams on the franchise tag, they have to have something worked out with him, like a three-year deal with a low cap hit in the first year, push the money out into the future. Obviously their owners have a few dollars out there, they can kind of mess

with the cap and they've been willing to do stuff like that with a lot of their players but if you lock yourself into Sam Darnold and he isn't good then you end up with a Russell Wilson type of situation right if it was just with O'Connell. I feel like he would be good there though. I think that's the safest bet right it's the safest bet that'll be good because the system is the same. Wide receiver one is there. I mean, they've at least invested in the offensive line. I think they would have to do a little bit more for him.

But I think it is the safest bet because you know what the system already looks like and what the coaching already looks like. Does the money make sense for the Rams to make this worth it? Because if we're looking at like, oh he wants 50 million Stafford. And that's the hang up and all of the insiders, Peter Schrager, who's really really close with McBey, and you know, so I mean I'm assuming that he kind of knows what he's talking about, has said that there's no

relationship breakdown, it's just a money situation, which is a separate conversation also. But if it's a money conversation, you're looking for 50, and then you're going to bring in Sam Darnold, you're going to pay him 40, is that enough of a gap that it's worth it to move all the chess pieces around? I mean, Sam Darnold is younger by quite a bit. Well, I think that would be the main part of it.

Yeah, that would be the main part of it for me, is that if you signed Darn Arnold to a three-year contract And then he's really good for you Then you've got a 27 28 29 year old quarterback who you can even sign to another contract Whereas Stafford this is a year-to-year type of thing in fact I thought after what happened in the playoffs that you know how banged up he is every single year He's probably gonna walk away like oh I had a great season and that's a good note to end it on,

and then he wants to keep playing, he wants to get so much more money and all that. I think Darnold, just, you could project forward, that if he's gonna play with Puka Nakua, and he's gonna play with Sean McVay, there is a floor there. You could say, oh, he'll go back to the same Sam, but if you're talking about that coach,

and that supporting cast, and they can add to it, they can draft more wide receivers, you know that they're going to be in the playoff contention with Sam Darnold. I don't know if they can win a Super Bowl with him. If they thought the Vikings thought they could win a Super Bowl with him, he would be their franchise quarterback. But still that does give you McVeigh an opportunity to keep winning because if they move on from Stafford, then who do they bring back?

Carson Wentz? Like seriously, is Carson Wentz the next best option for them? No I I somebody mentioned Jimmy Jimmy's name Grubhull and that I was like oh uh-uh I get there's no I mean and I and I get I kind of where people were going with this and it was somebody who was you know pretty plugged into the situation who said that and I was like I can't believe that and I'm sure you, I can't believe that. And I'm sure what you're telling me is totally true, but I just can't.

I can't believe that that would be the option that they'd be like, hey, we're gonna get rid of Stafford, and we're just gonna, you know, like, this is fine. Like, it just doesn't make sense to me. The Stafford deal makes a lot more sense to me because the thing that I've had in the back of my head this whole time about the Rams is they've got to have something else. They've got to have another plan. Like it's not often that you see a Stafford Goff type deal right but they're the ones that did it and so

you have to come up with a way to move the chips around the board in a way that benefits you and maybe also benefits the team that you're doing a deal with, as was the case with the Lions. But I just, I don't see it if it's, okay, we're not going to pay you and we'll just go to, who else is here? You know, I don't, that doesn't make any sense. I just don't really understand Stafford's motivations

in the entire thing. I don't either. Look, I'm sure he loves Cooper Cup, but that can't be it, right? And with the money situation, just math, okay, I know. Kurt Cousins once said, it's not about the dollars, it's what the dollars represent. And if you think about it, that's a lot of things in life.

It's like, it's not about what they said, it's about what it means or whatever. It's sort of like that. It's like, well, he views himself as an elite quarterback with a Super Bowl win, and he sees Dak Prescott make 60. How can I not be make? So I get the whole math of that, but I also don't understand why you'd want to go somewhere else at this point in your career.

At this point. Right. When you've had a successful rebuild of that team very quickly through the draft, and you're in position to go add a couple pieces and be really good. I mean, I just, I don't get it, but I also think that that is the thing that's looming the most over all these other decisions because the Vikings can't trade him to the Rams unless he's gone.

But if you're the Giants and you think you're getting Stafford, then if you're not, then Sam Darnold's a pretty good option if you don't love Chauder Sanders. So who are we checking off the list? It's like the Vikings are playing this game of chicken now with the Rams, who always seem to be the fly and the ointment here, but right?

They're playing this game with them where teams are in on Stafford and in on Darnold. The thing about Stafford too that I find confusing about the timing of it now is that there were no metrics that he could go to the team from this past season and say, I am playing at the top of my game and I deserve this. I mean, we heard tons of stories over the year and I think it's become kind of like the in vogue thing

to talk about that he's the quarterback's favorite quarterback, right? Like, quarterbacks love Stafford and think that he's a little bit underrated in the conversation, but also, you know, from an efficiency standpoint, like he's a more middle of the road statistical quarterback. And so while we know that there's more to it than the stats, and I'm not talking about counting stats,

like passing yards or anything like that, I'm literally talking about the efficiency stuff that you would, or completion percentage over expectation, or some of the stuff that we have at Sumer that's more related to tracking data and accuracy. Like none of it's bad, but it's not great. And so it feels like a weird time at this point in time when I on the outside was already kind of starting to wonder

like how many more years does he have left? Are we starting to already see like in the data world, one of the things that we're always looking for is the first sign that we're tilting positively or negatively. I mean, it could be positively too. Maybe this guy's better than we're giving him credit for and he deserves more playing time, but maybe more relevantly, is this guy's start kind of on the down slope. It's hard to look at his numbers this year and go, not at all.

I don't know that the answer is yes, he is on the down slope from an age standpoint. That would suggest that maybe he has a couple more years left and maybe that's the max, but. I mean, just being 37 alone, would suggest that he doesn't have that much longer. But yeah, I mean, when you look at his season, his playoff game against the Vikings was really excellent. Really their defense won that game,

but he was fantastic against them. The rest of the year, there's some great games. There's the Buffalo game where they scored a bunch of points and then there's some down games. And that's kind of what happens when these guys get older, right? Like even the great ones, even Tom Brady became a little more inconsistent in the last year

that he played and they won like eight games or something. Kind of happens. And Stafford, I feel like has a 50 year old body. I think that nobody has ever talked about more. And this used to annoy me a little. Like just, oh, Stafford's playing through this. And it was like, is Stafford always telling all these guys what he's playing through,

just so he sounds a little tougher or whatever? I don't know. Sorry, I don't mean to call out that. Sometimes that stuff doesn't get out at all. The fact that it's out. Well, Kirk played with a broken rib the entire 2022 season and nobody knew about it. So I'm just saying that there are ways.

If they don't want you to know, you're not going to know. I'm sorry, Matthew Stafford. I have a ton of respect. I just think that that body's been through a lot. And if I'm another team, I'm looking at that as a one year thing. Or if I'm the Rams, I'm looking at it as a swing for the fences.

So maybe one last time with them, so maybe the Rams have to just say, alright, here's your money. Or maybe it's about more than that. Maybe it's about ego, maybe it's about what I'm worth, that kind of thing. It's complicated. I'm curious about what else is on your mind with free agency though, because the buzz here is not about the draft. I mean everyone that I'm talking to here is like and I know we're you know we're the darn old team and so forth but like nobody's really talking about well is it gonna be Travis Hunter is gonna be Abdul Carter is gonna be this maybe not to you because you guys have four draft picks that hurts that hurts me I'm just saying the conversation might be different I can Minnesota fan base I draft simmed and I got more draft picks by trading down I'm just saying the conversation might be different for a Minnesota fan base. I draft simmed and I got more draft picks by trading down.

I'm just saying. I saw there was a big fan. There was some report that was like, the Vikings could trade down. And they're like, yeah, they have four draft picks. They certainly could. Can you imagine? It's not like, we're just going to wait for those four

to come up. That doesn't seem like Quessy at all. It's not draft season until something completely obvious could happen like yeah wow I can't believe that anyway but that has not been what people are debating and talking about it's a lot about is this free agent class worth paying? Is the Trey Smith worth paying? Is the the safeties Javon Holland or is you know the Vikings have a couple of the biggest free agents in Cam Beinum and in Byron Murphy Jr.

And I guess I'm curious what your take is about spending in free agency in a world where, you know, a team like the Vikings has a lot of cap space, but you don't just want to throw it all out there if it's not like last year where the Vikings were able to get Jonathan Grenard, Blake Cashman, and Andrew Van Ginkle. Those are, I think, a higher caliber of player than a lot of the free agency class for this year.

Absolutely, and it's different, but it's different for different position groups. You need to log into something while talking. That's what it's telling me. It's a theme. You, me, no internet access. No, I wanted to make sure that I was clear about the players in each group

and I do have notes on all of this. But from a free agency standpoint, there's a couple of position groups that are really strong in free agency. Guard, it's a great Guard year. There are a lot of options and I think that Guard is also a position that you pay in free agency,

because it's not that expensive. You want to draft an offensive tackle, you want to draft an edge rusher, you want to draft a quarterback, in a perfect world, just from a pay scale standpoint. If you go sign them in free agency, you're paying top of market at a very high market. So you could go get the best guard,

and I mean that would still be very expensive, and hopefully the team that signs Trey Smith is one that has plenty of money and not a ton of holes, right? So if you're going to pay 21 plus for a guard, that's an awful lot of money. But there are guys this year that you could go get, and I think that that's a smart roster building approach. It's interesting to me that it's a bad free agency year

in a lot of the same position groups that it's a very strong draft year. So like tight end, there aren't that many tight ends available, running backs. There are running backs available, but they're all kind of older. And so it's not a really strong running back year, and there is a lot of depth at running back in the draft.

Edge, you know, there aren't a ton of guys. Defensive Tackle, I don't think there, it's almost eerie how it correlates in a way that's positive for team builders this year. I mean, absolutely, because the defensive tackle, there's Milton Williams and Oso Degizoua who there was a report that he started negotiations with the Cowboys to stay in Dallas So if he stays then Milton Williams and then there's a big drop-off to like a BJ Hill and then after that you're kind of looking

At filler type of players where the defensive tackles in the draft you got beast after beast and the name that keeps popping up For me in the draft sims is Derek Harmon from Oregon. But there's, we're gonna see when they hit the field that there's probably 10 guys who are gonna have a chance to go in the first couple rounds at Defensive Tackle. And that is a serious need for the Vikings. When you said that, I was gonna yell running back. Because how important do you feel like

the running back position is? That is, right, it's an interesting question How important do you feel like the running back position is? That is, right, it's an interesting question because last year with... Hotly debated. Two years ago, think about Saquon Barkley averaging 3.9 yards per carry with the Giants. And then averaging almost six. And you go, well what, oh.

What was the difference there? Was it Saquon? But also... Was it a good team? But also, Saquon makes like 12 million bucks. That's so true. Khalil Shakir, who is to me like OK, but kind of just a guy in Buffalo, just made way more than that in his contract

extension with Buffalo. To me, that's smart money at that point. If you're paying Aaron Jones $7 million, that's smart money. What is that? I mean, is that like a veteran corner who's 35 years old? It's the same that they paid Stefan Gilmore for your bell cow running back. I don't know if they should go back to Jones and draft a guy. I think that that's probably the best option.

But is it worth it to pay a Rico Dowdell maybe more than expected as a free agent? Is it worth it to bring back Jones? Is it worth it to draft one in the first round? Or are you still staying with the standard, analytic, accepted? So here's the thing, I'm putting my notes away, that's not helpful. My thought on the running backs is that if you were gonna go pay somebody top of market,

you need to be ready to compete. Otherwise it's a waste, to your point about Saquon Barkley's numbers. They had Saquon Barkley, who is clearly the best running back in the NFL, or at least in a tier of only a handful of guys, and it meant nothing to the Giants. I mean, it didn't mean nothing,

but it didn't mean, how many wins did he tilt them towards? How many would he have tilted them towards this year? Like the running backs don't, they put you over the top if you are already good, but they are not going to make a not good team good. That's just not how football works, right? Like so nobody is saying in my, I am not saying that running,

in the whole running backs don't matter conversation, I'm not saying that running backs don't actually matter backs don't matter conversation, I'm not saying that running backs don't actually matter. From a football standpoint, they're clearly important. It's how much should you pay them, how much does it matter to have the best one? And what's the difference between the best one and a good enough one? And how much will it tilt your team's wins and losses?

And I just think that, Vikings to your point are a team that we're expecting to be good. So maybe the Vikings are an example of a team that can afford to pay a running back. You want to make sure that you have someone back there. There's a lot of guys though that people have been getting in later rounds and in a deep draft like this maybe you sign somebody in free agency and you draft somebody and I wouldn't be surprised if the guy that you drafted isn't the guy. That's my plan. My plan for them would be to bring back Aaron Jones because or or get Rico Dowdell. I just don't

know much about him other than his stats were okay. But I know what Aaron Jones brings to a locker room leadership all that sort of stuff and I think if Aaron Jones is carrying the ball 160 times, then that's pretty good. Last year they're just leaning on him completely. You can't do that. But if you're drafting like a Trevion Henderson in the third or something, and having Aaron Jones and then developing Henderson, that sounds like a pretty good plan. I totally agree with you that I think it's about maximizing that running back skill. So it's kind of like the Marshall Falk problem for the olds. Like think about Marshall Falk in Indianapolis

doesn't mean a thing. And then Marshall Falk with the Rams of the Gray Show on turf and he's the centerpiece of that entire offense. It's the same way with Saquon Barkley. It's like if you can maximize that guy, oh yeah, it's crazy valuable. If you can't, it means almost nothing. If you can't block for them, if you can't have a passing game that sets up the run. So that, I think the Vikings have most of those pieces, if they get some better blocking up front in the middle for the run game, but they can maximize the running back skills because you know you're facing too high all day. You're going to have all the attention on Justin Jefferson. That to me does make it worth it. Well, and if you're pivoting to JJ, you maybe, it's from a priority standpoint to have somebody

in the backfield that is a little bit more of a sure thing, just to kind of protect him to a degree. You know, you're not talking about a veteran where you know what you're getting exactly. And we assume that it will look good. I mean I'm pretty safe assuming that JJ, if they choose to go in that direction and they get rid of Sam, then they must feel pretty confident that he's gonna be good and I'm willing to concede that he probably will be, especially based on the way that the other rookie quarterbacks played last year, which is a separate

conversation about kind of what we're looking at in terms of quarterbacks readiness to enter the NFL. But I do think that if you have somebody who is younger and has an unknown component to it that may be the willingness to bump up the pay for the person in the backfield maybe goes up a little bit that said how much is Aaron Jones commanding at this stage of his career you know like are we even talking about a particularly big? Even if he were to come out of free agency and be the highest paid running back, what does that even mean?

Right, yeah, and that's unlikely. I mean, maybe we're talking about- You're not going to 12. Max, eight to 10? I mean, I kind of think that sounds about right. And to your point, and I think that this is the most valid point that people make about the Giants and Saquon,

is like, the way you spread out $12 million, you don't pay Saquon, and then it's like a drop in the bucket, it's like, okay, now we paid for our backup quarterback, Drew Locke, and then what, and we get nothing with that $12 million, you know? So I think that's the most valid thing, is that I don't think it's as egregious that a bad team doesn't want to pay a top-of-market running back I think that's smart roster building but the number is so low that

like what are we really debating here you know right right right yeah I think for a team that's on a timeline where they can't win it was a good idea for the Giants to move on from Saquon Barkley, but boy they got owned. I mean it could have been worse for them over and over every single Sunday. By the way, no notes is what we should call every single appearance. We just roll the ball out, talk football. It's always so fun to have you. Even though I keep trying to put my notes in it. Who needs it? I know you got other appearances you got to run to, but you're always one of my favorite guests, one of my audience favorite guests,

Lindsay Rose, the Sumer Sports Show, Sam Brookhouse, your cohost is gonna be on with me tomorrow. So I love what you guys are doing and great to catch up with you in person. Thank you so much. Really nice to meet you in person finally. Am I taller than you thought? Shorter?

Wingspan? Wait, I was gonna say- Hand size? I was gonna say more good-looking and all but then I was like wait that has a negative implication about like what was thought before just all good all the good things whatever would be good right now to say that it's probably a good time just the hook Lindsay Rhodes football folks I'm trying a new thing in order to stop ordering from fast food restaurants all the time. With my busy schedule, it's called Tempo Meals. Tempo is a weekly delivery service

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Matthew Coller here along with Andrew Kramer of the Star Tribune. Let's not waste any time, Andrew. You gotta run, do some reporting or something for the newspaper. What'd you think of Kevin O'Connell and Quasidafel Mensah here at the podiums? I think Kevin O'Connell is never short on words,enta here at the podiums. I think Kevin O'Connell

is never short on words certainly but he was a little short on insight in terms of what they're gonna do at quarterback. We can read between the tea leaves much of it was echoing and chorusing what he has said throughout the offseason Matt we heard them after the season we heard Kevin at the Super Bowl when he's accepting coach of the year. Talk about Sam Darnold being a guy who's gonna go out there and explore being the right to be a Pro Bowl quarterback and all the suitors that he might get and all those things and the Vikings are keeping open the possibility of keeping him obviously but they keep talking like they expect someone else to come with a bigger

paycheck for him which really should be no shock and I think the big takeaway that I'm sure you've already talked about is that they feel like J.J. McCarthy will be ready for the start of the off-season program. Obviously his weight is getting back up to where it needs to be in all those things. So they're very happy with their rookie pick, which is obviously the undercurrent of why they're,

they might let Sam Darnall walk out the door. So I enjoy this game of clue, is what I called it in my article. The, we're gonna get all the answers in like two weeks But like why don't we just all play a game right now where we guess and we try to get Sherlock Holmes What does he got like a magnifying glass monocle or magnifying glass? I don't know. Yeah sure So we're looking at the quotes like what does he really mean? But I think it's two things are really pointing us in a very clear direction

Number one is that they want us to know that JJ McCarthy is doing very well in his recovery. He is up over 200 pounds, which we were all told, and he is going to be ready for that off-season program. And you're like, oh, well, that sounds like they're trying to let us know that he's in good shape because that has been one of the questions about how his recovery was going after a second procedure and then everybody saw him on TV with the weight loss and all that sort of stuff. That was by far the biggest update we got was like, okay, he's tracking toward being ready for the off season program, which starts really in what, April is the first workouts

and then the OTA's mini camp happens through May and June. So if he's good to go with all that and they're telling us that that's kind of a signal right there but I think it's about what was not said Mr. Kramer that told me the most about where they stand with all this. Not one time has Kevin O'Connell told us to be patient with JJ McCarthy. Last year after they drafted him he told us about 20 times to be patient with JJ McCarthy. Last year after they drafted him, he told us about 20 times to be patient with JJ McCarthy. If he had told us at any point at the podium, hey, you guys, you know, we don't want to push JJ or we don't want to rush him or he's still young, those were never thrown out there. Just like, yeah, we taught him how to be a quarterback last year when he wasn't playing.

So it's time. That was my takeaway. That's a good point. And in terms of what he did last year, because I think fans are going to want to know how ready is he going to be for this season to play, maybe even week one, if that's what ends up being. Now, they don't know who the quarterback is going to be with him, Matt. So I don't know how much it's going to behoove them to come out and try to put the brakes

on J.J. McCarthy. At this point, he is the only guy under contract for them moving forward at quarterback. That's not gonna stay the same, they're gonna bring somebody else in. Is it Daniel Jones, is it Sam Darnold, is it somebody else that comes in and is that guy? So I think the lack of them knowing

we have a backup option or insurance policy, there's no reason to say that. I do expect though once they sign somebody, and I expect that once they get JJ into OTAs, into training camp, we're probably gonna hear a lot of that. We're probably going to hear a lot of, let's temper expectations, let's kind of put a lid on things. Because that's what they did with Sam Darnold last year. Last year it was all summer.

It was, well, we're teaching him the offense, he's getting all the first team reps. We really need him to learn this, but let's just kind of keep expectations. And then when he played well, it was, wow, we always expected this. We always knew he was going to come out there and do this. So I think they're gonna ride those expectation waves this summer with JJ, certainly. I don't know if I'm taking too much away from that, but what he did last year,

throughout the not being able to practice or anything, they felt like he was able to at least be part of the meeting rooms, be at the games. And they eventually told him to get off of his feet on the sideline, because I think that might've been a little bit of a problem with him jumping up and down and getting all excited and stuff. But he wore the headset during games.

He listened to what was happening. They felt like he got a good foundation. So I understand why they're optimistic, but we're not going to know until he steps on the field. How did that footwork retain? How did everything he did during OTAs and the little bit of training camp he got, how is that going to stick with him?

And I think that's going to tell the story of how truly ready he got, how is that gonna stick with him? And I think that's gonna tell the story of how truly ready he is. That is all 100% true. And I feel like the minute that he steps on the field for the first OTA, he is the guy and the expectations are sky high. There is no sitting around and screwing around. Hey, this is the National Football League, my friend.

I don't know if you've heard. That's not how it works. Like not, not truly. Tell Kevin't know if you've heard. That's not how it works. Like not, truly. Tell Kevin that. Not when you win 14 games and you have, let's look around at this whole roster. Who's young? Nobody.

Justin Jefferson's in his prime. Jordan Addison's going to year three. T.J. Hockinson is a veteran. Down with Jonathan Grenard to me is one of those foundational elite players that they have. That's a veteran. They bring back Byron Murphy or Cam Bynum. Those guys are second contract type of guys.

There's going to be money. If they get Trey Smith or whatever other combination of veteran guards, you're going to look around. Aaron Jones will be in the backfield and be like, this ain't a young team. This is a team that is fully ready to support in the best way possible a young quarterback. But it's also a team, in my opinion, that the expectation should be you're in the playoffs, you're winning, you're competing, and they should only do it with him. They should only move on from Darnold if they can get there, which based on where he was last year, I think that that's a fair expectation for him.

Maybe you're right that they will talk about that, but I debated this with Dane yesterday because he was like, well maybe they'll have some sort of competition. I'm like, you can't do that. Like it's go time, man. It's go time. If JJ's out there, it's go time. Yeah, we know McCarthy did not throw to Justin Jefferson really much at all last summer. I expect that when things start up in May, once they actually get back on the field with all those guys and the veterans and OTAs in late May, he's got to be the one throwing to Jefferson. Even if it's Daniel Jones, even if they need to bring in another new quarterback, I know Daniel had a month with the team last year, but if they have to bring in another new guy

to fully immerse himself in the system, it will be fascinating to see how they divvy that up because I would agree with you. I would think that everybody internally, from what we've heard, they're so excited to see how McCarthy looks in this offense, how he looks throwing to JJ, throwing to TJ Hawkinson who couldn't do anything last summer, throwing to Jordan Addison, all those things. This offense is set up for him to hit the ground running. I do believe they're going to give him every chance to do that, but you know Kevin O'Connell. You know the quarterback journey, the quarterback mindset. He's going to want to make sure that that kid is not too over his skis, that expectations aren't getting raised too high, wherever the vibe's at,

Kevin is going to try and bring that thing back to the middle. And right now the vibe is low, because JJ McCarthy was reportedly under 200 pounds, skinny as heck. We saw him around the locker room looking like a shell of himself, at least lower half, he wasn't squatting, he wasn't doing weight room stuff. So I think the vibes are low, which is why you're kind of feeling it being brought back up. And you know, Matt, we've been around forever. This summer, they're gonna try and bring it back down, but I agree with you.

It needs to be full steam ahead, and that runway for him needs to be pretty clear. What else you've been thinking about, talking about around here, because clearly the quarterback situation is a pretty, pretty pretty pretty big deal but there's also a bunch of other decisions that this team has to make on the roster and let's just simulate past the Sam Darnold thing let's just say that they tag and trade him and he's a raider

they've got one extra third round pick are they down? Are they going crazy in free agency? Can they? Because there's only so many good players at free agency and there's a lot of teams that have cap space, especially since there was more cap space added to the salary cap. What's your biggest storyline, if you will, from Indy? Well, we recently heard, reportedly,

actually confirmed this last night, Jonathan Allen is the commander's interior defender, is on the market, wants to get traded. And in his camp, he's based out of Minneapolis, his agency is, and they are in the Vikings' ear, saying, hey, this would make a ton of sense for you guys, and we would certainly love if you guys made a move to come get him.

Who knows if that's gonna happen? I was told that a lot of things that make sense in the NFL do not end up happening so we'll see. I have not heard that the Vikings reached out to them yet at this point but they're hoping to learn more at the combine Jonathan Allen's camp is so that'll be fascinating to see because they need an interior defender. We know that they met as well with Derek Harmon the interior defender for Oregon. They had a formal meeting with him earlier this week.

He's an option at number 24 overall. They need to beef up their trenches, their lines. We heard about them bringing in an assistant offensive line coach with kind of a shoddy record of being rough on his players, but that's the kind of vibe that they're trying to instill here with their trenches. They just saw Philadelphia,

they saw teams who played late thrive in those spots and the Vikings know that they need to improve on both sides. So to me, the defensive line has been a big talker at this point, whether it's Jonathan Allen, whether it's the rookies that they might want to make a move on come draft time. And then when it comes to free agency, you mentioned they've got money, they've got money to spend.

We know they really want to keep Byron Murphy. They pushed that void date back for him up until the eve of free agency opening on March 12th to try and keep open the possibility of extending him before that. Even if they don't, I've been told that they still want to make sure that they try to sign him if he hits that open market. We'll see if he does. It's a great question for him. It's a great question to see whether or not they keep him, an intriguing one, because we're just not sure at that corner spot what else they have. And I think that's going to lend to them being very aggressive to try and keep him. You know, with the Byron Murphy thing, my initial thought was, ah, it's just going to

be too much money. But then the cap goes up and then the cap is going to keep going up. And all of a sudden, if you sign somebody to 17 mil, there's sticker shock. But then three years in, you're like, oh, that's like nothing. And I think that does change the game a little bit for the Vikings. And I didn't realize until we got here and started talking to people how much they do want Byron Murphy back because, you know, they moved back the void date with Delvin Tomlinson. Like how serious is that really?

And then I got the impression yesterday, like, I think they really want By Byron Murphy back and I think what was the words it was used like really he's just a fit like the win and there's a little bit of if you pay 14 million for another corner or 17 million for Byron Murphy you know what Murphy looks like you know his health you know his age you know his character and with somebody else's on the free agent market, you're just taking guesses at all those things. Is that worth three million bucks in an average annual value, which you can just bury under the couch cushions if you want?

So I've been sort of against overpaying Byron Murphy, and over the last couple days come around to that might actually be a good idea, especially with where the corner back room is. And one note on that too, I do not expect Byron to give them any kind of hometown discount. They wanted they approached his camp before week one last year wanting to resign him we mentioned that and he said no he didn't like what they were offering he said I'm gonna play out my contract here he did the same thing in Arizona before he came to the Vikings the year before his contract

here in Arizona they wanted to sign him. He said no. They offered him more money upfront and overall than what he actually ended up signing for from the Vikings. So it actually bit him that he didn't take that deal in Arizona. He still says he's happy about that because of where he ended up. And now he wants to cash in.

So he missed out on money two years ago. Now he wants to cash in coming off six interceptions. It's gonna cost the Vikings. So when you talk about overpaying or really shelling out for him, I think they're really gonna have to. Yeah, that's where that comes in of, if it's DJ Reed who I think might be a better corner,

then okay, if you're paying the same price, but you're still very clear on what you're going to get from him. The problem is when you negotiate with a guy who just had six interceptions, even if some of those interceptions were thrown right to him and almost anybody would have caught it, that number really shines in a negotiation.

It's like he takes the ball away is something. And you go through his career and sometimes he does. Is he gonna get six picks next year? I would strongly bet against that he's gonna get six next year. And if you can't guarantee that amount of taking the ball away, which you never can with a corner, then they better be a lockdown guy. Not truly a lockdown guy.

I just I just think from a numbers perspective, it could be okay. But I also would still understand fully if they were like, okay, there's there's just a too rich for our blood. That was Delvin Thomason. I think Delvin Thomason is a great player, but a team comes with that kind of offer. Okay, enjoy Cleveland. Go back to the Jonathan Allen thing real quick. I don't love it because I really like the defensive tackle class. You mentioned Derek Harmon. That's a name that keeps coming up with

them. I love that idea. We've heard good things about him, and his numbers are great. This is a position that they have not filled for a long time. But I think when you draft a defensive tackle, if you hit, that guy's going to be with you for like 10 years. They can develop quickly. They can get on the field and impact quickly. We ran into Andre Patterson last night. We were talking Dexter Lawrence with Andre Patterson,

which was really cool. And he was talking about how he's developed and gotten better and better and better and turned into a beast. And it's like, yeah, Dexter Lawrence is gonna be good for like five, six, seven more years. You get that guy, you can just plug him in and have him as a franchise staple.

I think if you go chasing somebody else's defensive tackle that they're okay with moving on from, like wait, a team that competed for the Super Bowl last year is okay with moving on? I'm not sure I love that. Yeah, and I think that's why his camp is trying to manifest maybe him coming to Minnesota, where that might not be a reality for a team

that's looking for long-term solutions, as you talk about, not short-term stop gaps. Jonathan Allen's 30 years old. He's gonna be making 15, I think, plus million dollars next year. So that's not, it might not fit into the picture of what they're trying to do, but they need that spot. They need somebody to come in.

And what stood out to me, Matt, you and I had some off the record chats with some other people with the organization. What stood out to me is I came away from that thinking, boy, they talked a lot about getting pass rush with four, disrupting with four, not having to rely so much on just your blitz packages and all that kind of stuff.

Brian Flores is amazing at doing that, he's amazing at scheming up, simulated pressures, generating just a four man rush with linebackers and corners and all these other people, but they're talking about the D line. They realize that teams like Philly, teams like even Kansas City, who have a decent defensive line,

the teams that play late into January, into into February you have to make a difference with that group. And with Jonathan Bullard a free agent, Jerry Tillery a free agent, Harrison Phillips getting to be 29, 30 years old, they need some new blood in there, some new lifeblood in there. And the way to do it with a great defensive tackle class might be with the 24th overall pick and not shelling out top money where you've got so many other top money where you've got so many other hope when you've got so many other holes to fill on your roster. I think you're supposed to on this show there's a little bit of a rule that if you talk to someone in the league you're supposed to lean into the

camera go in the league so instead of saying hey man you and I talked to some Vikings people off the right no no no no this is only wrong I'm sorry I'm sorry say you know I've had conversations Vikings people off the right no no no no this is totally wrong. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I've had conversations with people in the league that believe that the Vikings want to rush for as if any team ever has not wanted to rush for right but no I mean they've been taping that thing over for long enough if we were to rank right now since we're at the combine let's have a three minute draft conversation with the combine if you were to rank right now since we're at the Combine, let's have a three minute draft conversation with the Combine. If you were to rank the top four positions

that they might go with, I would put DT, because of our conversations with people in the league. In the league. I'd put DT number one in the draft for them. But then where's it, is that number one for you, and then where's it go after that? Yeah, I think defensive tackle or corner. Those two positions are really, all positions are generally expensive in free agency,

but corner especially. When you talk about salary caps going up, prices then for these guys go up, who become free agents, who become veteran free agents. That makes your first round picks, all your draft picks that much more valuable in terms of cost control. So, Quasey's a guy who's absolutely looking at that and valuing, okay, where is the position,

where is my efficiency going to come from by selecting these certain positions? And I do think Corner is one of them he's going to strongly consider in the first round. Also because they don't have a lot of long-term solutions. It's McKay Blackman right now, and if maybe Byron Murphy Jr., if they re-sign him so I would go defensive tackle I agree with you I'd go corner I do think running back is up there this is also supposed to be a great running back draft class maybe even if it's with their late third round pick that they get in the comp formula taking a guy who could help complement if it's Aaron Jones or another veteran you bring in in free agency I do think running back is a

huge need and then interior offensive line maybe that's second or third ahead of running back, but which might be number four if I'm ranking them. They need interior offensive line help. That has not changed. Kevin O'Connell's comments after the season about how we need to play differently. I need to have more options. Basically the paraphrasing is I need to have more options in the playbook with what I can go to. He felt hampered with what he could do against the Lions and the Rams because of the matchup issues up front. So to me that interior offensive line is going to remain something that they need to fix and that they need help with. He was trying, he sort of addressed it and was trying to talk around what he said after the game, but I thought it was as raw and real as we ever see Kevin O'Connell.

It was the truth, man, we gotta have better guards. There's no question about it. Everybody's known it here for about 10 freaking years. It's go time. And you know, in my draft simulation, which I did show to some people in the league, that is true, I did that. But I had the Vikings trading down,

and I had them taking a guard at that point. But I think that where they stand, there actually are, what is going on? Is it raining? I think this is very heavy rain. Oh, I was like. On the tin roof. Is the spaceship taking off?

Am I having a seizure? What is going on? I'm sure people can't hear that. But anyway, so I feel like there's maybe one guy that would be worth a first round pick at guard and you could potentially trade down, take him, get your other positions. There's going to be some opportunities for that, I think, in this draft to be able to move back. But it's not always something you could just push a button. Like you got to have somebody else that wants to move up in order for you to move back.

And they have more needs than they have assets when it comes to that, which means free agency is where they have to go try to fill these guard positions, probably, unless they can take Tyler Booker. Yeah. Quacey and Kevin, I think, I can't remember one or the other. They did mention both of them feel like this is a very deep draft and that echoes the draft analysts, the respected ones, the ones who know what they're talking about, talking about how this is

not necessarily a top-heavy draft. So I wouldn't be shocked you're talking about them trading back. They need more picks, they need to figure that out and yes they'll be bullish in free agency, they've got top 10 cap space across the league so they'll have the room to go after pieces. It's just a question of, yeah, do they view this draft as such where they can trade back? Because the last time they did that, Matt, the last time they traded back in the first round,

we talk about it quite a bit. And people in the league know it didn't work out very well for them. So I do wonder that them trading back, I wonder if there's any scars there at this point, or if they can separate that and truly look at this in a vacuum Nobody ever talks about what the Eagles took Jalen reger and not Justin Jefferson. That's true only talk about that 2022 draft

Yeah, that is It's still it's still an eyesore it is still an eyesore and you know you think about had it hit and you would have Lewis seen at safety as like a dynamic player. You'd have Andrew Booth, Jr. One of them hitting would have been great. Key Corner at Ingram at guard. They don't really need the linebacker thing. But I mean, any one of those guys would have been really helpful to where they are right now.

But we'll see where we go forward. Last thing before I let you go. Who does Sam Darnold start for in week one 2025? I've been trying to convince Vegas Radio to do it. Who does Sam Darnold start for in week one, 2025? I've been trying to convince Vegas Radio to do it. My hope is if I go on Vegas Radio and I tell them, yeah, your team should trade for Darnold, that Brady will listen to it, like on a jog or something.

And then he'll be like, you know what? That Minnesota guy makes some points and you know, I should give them a higher draft pick. How about the Tennessee Titans? Oh that's a good one. Yeah, how about the Tennessee Titans? I feel like they obviously need a stopgap quarterback, maybe not even a stopgap. If they view Sam Darnold as the guy taking a big swing on him, their head coach could use some instant help. Not some, ah we'll figure it out, maybe this will be the guy this year or not. I do think, I'm trying to remember,

is it Brian Callahan? Their coach has been around for a little bit of a minute here and Will Leves has not been the guy for them. McVeigh connection, I don't think they worked together, but Callahan worked for McVeigh, O'Connell worked for McVeigh, it's like a mob, those guys. They're like, do you know McVeigh? Oh, I know McVeigh.

Media people do that too with McVeigh. I don't know what it is. The hair, the winning, the success. I don't know what it is. The hair, the winning, success. I don't get that. It's cool. He might be cool. I don't know. LA, sunshine. Want to meet McVeigh. All right, Andrew Kramer Star Tribune. Thanks so much for popping on and people can look forward to your coverage here from Indianapolis and we will catch y'all later. Sounds good. Thanks for having me on. Football. Football.