Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Lions analyst answers: Are the Lions regressing?

Episode Date: June 18, 2025

Matthew Coller is joined by Lions beat reporter for the Detroit News Nolan Bianchi to discuss the Lions and whether the NFC North favorite is regressing.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of purple insider Matthew collar here and joining me on the show for the very first time from the Detroit news is Nolan Bianchi who I see everywhere. I see it the combine. Of course, the Vikings play at least two games against the Detroit lions. We thought last year might be three Nolan, but it didn't happen. I am very happy to have you on the show.

And I want to talk about this little cute thing called regression and whether the Detroit Lions are going to be able to fight it off. But how about just tell me about the vibe right now of the Detroit Lions. Lose a couple of coordinators, but add DJ Reed to the mix, mostly the same team that you have covered there for the last two years.

Does this team feel like they are still very much the team to chase down in the NFC North? I think so. I mean, you know, going into the off season and just what transpired with the two coordinators leaving. And you mentioned some of the personnel coming in and out. Really, the only significant loss that wasn't addressed was the loss of Kevin Zeitler and you know, they kind of I don't want to like get too ahead of

ourselves with a guy, a six-round rookie who played two starts last year was really really good, but I think even the optimism there was kind of, you know, making the, the Zyler departure a little bit, you know, not, not sting too bad. Um, and then Frank rag now left and it feels like everything kind of hit the fan because that dude, I mean, behind Jerr golf and Aiden Hutchinson, I think is probably the third most important player, maybe Peney Sewell. Um, but, but the third or fourth most important player to their success. And you know, I think they'll figure it out.

They got a really good online coach and Hank Fraley and, you know, a track record of being able to develop guys in the trenches. But yeah, I mean, I definitely was a shock to the system when you're sitting there on a Monday and all of a sudden that news or whatever day it was, I can't remember. And the news just kind of seemingly comes out of nowhere. Um, and, and so it's something they have to account for and it's something they have to figure out. And, um, you know, I think it could definitely cause them some issues,

at least early on in the season. But I think at the end of the day, you have so much talent on that roster. You have Dan Campbell and really that's all you need to, to feel a little bit hopeful about what's to come. Yeah, the interesting part about Jared Goff. So this is the NFC North podcast that defends Jared Goff more than any probably including in Detroit.

Just because of how well Jared Goff historically has played against the Minnesota Vikings when he was a Ram. He had a perfect quarterback rating against Mike Zimmer's defense that finished in the top five that year. And then we've seen what he's done to the Vikings since Dan Campbell got there. And even when they were tanking, he found a way to beat the Vikings in Detroit on the last second touchdown. So there is no Jared Goff disrespect here, but I have always felt like Goff, like many quarterbacks in the league, is delicate in that he can be pushed one way or the other, not physically, but one way or the other

by the circumstances. And when you go back to the year where the Rams decided to move on from him, the notable thing was that their offensive line fell apart there. And I'm not thinking that Detroit's offensive line is falling apart because you still do have one of the world's best offensive linemen in Penny Sewell, but you start going through the rest. And as you mentioned, you're talking about a sixth round rookie, you're talking about a another rookie that's going to have to probably start there, right? And Tate Ratledge and is Decker still the same guy that he used to be? That's a thing for Jared Goff that I think impacts him more than other quarterbacks because he's not mobile, he's not going to escape and run away

and when he does he kind of looks like a giraffe and then falls down. So I want your feeling on just how much Jared Goff's performance could be impacted if the offensive line is not what it's been these last few years. Yeah, no doubt. And I think when you've seen them have poor performances, it is specifically because the pass rush from the other team is getting home. Like I just mentioned, there was a time in the off season where you're like, okay, pretty

much the exact same offense from last year, except everybody's a year older, which in the case of a young team is typically a good thing. And now all of a sudden this position that's been their calling card for the last call it four or five years. I mean, even before Dan Campbell got here, it was like kind of the one thing that like, okay, well, like they have some talent here. But it's it's definitely like you say, a precarious situation as they go into training camp here and with the new coordinator too, I think is something that adds another layer to this.

So one thing I will say is the offensive line coach is still there, so that's why I kind of have a little bit of faith that they're going to be able to figure it out in that regard. But you're right, I mean three positions all right next to each other. The Vikings just what revamped their their entire interior because it's

it's not easy to get that right. And they have plenty of upside in the cupboard. So, you know, I think that that's going to help this along. You have guys fighting for you. You have. I don't want to call it, say, like guys who could start. You have you have like four guys who I think could start in those three positions, which I think is encouraging. At least in the sense of you know they'll be able to put out a good product on the field but yeah I mean it's gonna be tough and you know like we mentioned

Frank Bragg and I was kind of the brains of that offense when it came to the the pre-snap stuff and I think that's something that that golf really excels at too. So I'm curious to see how he's able to kind of pick up the slack with it isn't a rookie in their playing center. If it is Graham Glasgow, the veteran, I think that might be the direction they lean at first just because of the experience. But no, you're you're absolutely right. And there's a lot of moving pieces to this offseason in a way that really hasn't confronted this offense since they took off in 2022. And the one that I'm sure that everyone is asking you about is the new offensive coordinator situation, which is weird to say Johnny Morton. Since I grew up with wide receiver, John, and I'm like, Oh wow, they hired Johnny Morton, that guy was up.

Wait, who's this guy? But, but you know, when you think about the Ben Johnson running that you could kind of maybe compare it to like an orchestra and what do they call the guy who runs the orchestra? The conductor of the orchestra and he seemed to be in perfect sync with golf and with the offensive line and with the weapons with the scheme and you ever once in a while some crazy trick plays and things like that that they got known for but the way that they married the run in the past the running game was so dynamic and I thought it was really unique and interesting and then the way they played off of that and it seemed like golf really understood Ben Johnson and Ben Johnson really understood Jared Goff. What is that adjustment that you think going to be like? Because I saw this

a ways back, the bad version of it, which was when Kevin Stefanski was not hired as the office of coordinator, they went with John B. Filippo, Pat Shermer left and went to be the head coach of the New York giants very briefly for what, maybe two years. Uh, but for whatever reason, Pat Shermer had gelled really well with those offensive players. And then when they brought in D Filippo, they had mostly the same players and a better quarterback.

And yet it just didn't fit in the same way. So what is Johnny Morton? Not the receiver have to make this work in the same way that Ben Johnson did. Well, I think that's the million dollar question of this off season, right? And, um, I think when it comes to Ben Johnson, the thing that's going to be really hard to replicate is his ability to blend the science and the art of play calling. Like I really do think that he was on another level when it came to, you know, just the play calling itself and it was so tactical.

It was surgical in a lot of ways. And so that's that's one thing I'm definitely curious to see how it translates. But I think all the other stuff in terms of getting the most out of Jared Goff and just being able to maximize the weapons there, I'm a little less concerned about that. and just being able to maximize the weapons there. I'm a little less concerned about that. One thing that Dan Campbell kind of alluded to when Ben Johnson was going through the interview process, he was like, if he leaves, we'll be just fine. My specialty is offense.

And he worked under Sean Payton for however many years and people forget, Sean Payton at one time was Ben Johnson, the hottest up and coming OC who got a head gig and you know, so the fact that when they built this offense in 2022, Campbell gave credit to John Morton for being there and helping design that offense. Now, how much he had to do with it, we'll probably never know. But I think one thing that they did was they built the offense around what golf likes to do. They built the offense through Jared golf size, and I don't think that's going to change. And I think if you're looking for a reason for optimism

that this team can kind of pick up where it left off, and it'll be hard to replicate. I don't think that that should be the expectation is for them to be, you know, 13th in yards and points all time in a season, whatever. But I think as long as they continue to see the game through golf size, they're going to be OK, and he still got the same quarterback coach Mark Brunel. They brought up a bunch of offensive assistance on. There were all former

quarterbacks Marcus to we ask the soap. Oh, Bruce Grant Kowski. Just naming dudes here, but I think the way that they've kind of. Collected those brains together and the experience of saying, okay, we've done this before and it wasn't necessarily because of a specific scheme, it was because we listened to what our quarterback likes and we go from there. You know, and I think that's going to continue. I covered two Yosses So's brother in AAA baseball. He was actually a really good football prospect

too, and decided to go play baseball. Never. We go. May have spent some time with the Detroit Tigers. He did. Right. Yeah. Okay. I thought I remember a home run that he hit. I think it was like a walk off home run. It must've been like a decade ago. But yeah, I remember he was there for a little bit. Yeah, okay. Well, the tangled webs we going back going back on the offensive side, I think the biggest development from last year from the Detroit offense was that James Williams is not bad at football. Surprisingly, when you get on the field and stay there and run around and do things

rather than being suspended for gambling or whatever other problems he had, pretty good. And that right there last year, that emergence of his as a reliable weapon and a legitimate, serious, scary player for defenses, I think is what can push them through some of the potential regression. Like I think it's there. I think it's a monster that's lurking behind every corner of like, you know, you get one offensive lineman hurt or something. If Penny Sewell is out for a couple of weeks, what are you and how can you survive? But with the playmaking ability with that guy or the hand, the football in his hands is really exceptional. And that's what they saw when they traded with the Minnesota Vikings moving all the way up 20 spots to get him.

How is that journey been? Because it feels like it's been a real roller coaster. And even last year, we know this, that Dallas Turner didn't get 15 sacks in his first year. So naturally, there's a lot of, is he a bust? Is he, know should they fire the general manager and so forth? But I think that last year was really enormous for him to have that breakout to prove that he can actually be something and they don't just have to put it all

on Amon Ross St. Brown. Yeah I think the the roller coaster is a perfect way to describe it. I mean he came in to the NFL with a torn ACL. He was rehabbing from that. So his rookie year, he pretty much just redshirted and then except for one pass that he caught against the Minnesota Vikings. By the way, I was somebody, there's somebody in Detroit who clips all of the like, he was clipping all of the Paul Allen calls during the finale. And when he called Jameer Gibbs the assassinator of all things Minnesota Vikings, I was like I know he didn't mean it but that was one of the coolest nicknames I've ever

heard. Anyways, with Jameson Williams, it was like he just couldn't get on the same page and when the offense was clicking as well as it was, it was kind of like, well, you're gonna have to jump on the train while it's going. And if he can't, sorry, but we don't have time to wait for you. And I think this past year, they really put a lot of time into saying, okay, this guy is going to be an important feature piece for us this season. And I still do wonder if

they could have gotten a little bit more out of him just in terms of his his route tree and the stuff that they were asking him to do. I mean you mentioned it his explosiveness for my money like outside of Tyreek Hill. I don't know another guy who's one play away every time he touches the football quite like James and Williams and I just I could see a world where if he does play the full season if he doesn't have any trouble, which on that front, he's kind of like the king of technicality.

He just keeps getting caught up on these little things like, it's not illegal to gamble, but it is illegal to gamble in a hotel. It's not illegal to... and just little things like that. But yeah, I'm expecting a really big year from him. Uh, it wouldn't surprise me if he just so happened to like finish ahead of Amon Ra and yards or touchdowns or whatever, just because of what he's able to do every time he touches the football. And then, I mean, I don't know if you like peep fan bases outside of Detroit realize this, but he is maybe the most

beloved player that I've covered in my four seasons here. And just in terms of like, people love this guy because he reminds them of like a kid and he loves football like a kid. And I think people relate to that in a world that's kind of being weighted down by business side of things and you know, fans see that but just a just a absolutely electric player, great personality and you know, I think I think this is the year probably we'll see but where he kind of he brings it all together and he really takes that next step. And this is where when we have talked about on this show about the potential regression of the Detroit Lions, I mean, everyone is going to fall back a little bit.

Sure. Team games, 14 games. That's just not gonna happen year after year. The schedule is going to be a lot harder this year. But weapons sustained for me. If you have guys who can make plays with the football in their hands, even if you're dealing with other stuff,

even if you're dealing with an offensive coordinator change and some issues on the O line. I think in the playoffs, the O lines really get to get you but through an entire season, where you know, you're going to have games against the Giants or against the Browns. But I think that those weapons are so hard to stop because there's so many of them with the Lions. And you talk about like guys who crush the Vikings, Detroit is like five of them. I thought

when you said that nickname you were going to be talking about Khalif Raymond. Every time they face Khalif Raymond this guy finds a way to do something. St. Brown has done something but I want to dig deeper into Jumeir Gibbs. Make it make sense for me of why this man is so unstoppable in a world where we just were reminded of oh yeah if you have a freak-ass running back like they can really really be a problem but we're always trying to pick apart like how much is X Y or Z like Derek Henry does not have the season he has last year without Lamar Jackson taking up the defense's attention. Sequon Barkley does not have that season without the offensive line. Well, when I see Gibbs, I mean, I think is it stupid to say like

Barry Sanders? I mean, I because I grew up Barry Sanders, one of my favorite players of all time to watch. And as far as just being lightning quick, unstoppable, so hard to tackle, he's up there for the toughest players to tackle that I think I have ever seen. I agree. His I think his lateral agility is probably the best of any running back in the NFL. And you know, one one quote that stood out to me is from former running backs coach Scotty Montgomery coaches of wide receivers now. But you know, just asked about what made the tandem itself so special.

He said, I've never seen a running back that looks like Jameer Gibbs do the things that David Montgomery could do. And I've never seen a running back that looks like David Montgomery do the things that Jameer Gibbs can do. And in addition to the shifty-ness, like just the ping-ping-ping, like. His contact balance and his ability and that's where he reminds me of Barry is his is his ability to keep his feet moving like if you are going to lazy tackle him, he is going to end up hurtling right over you in the midst of breaking that tackle because he just he keeps his legs moving at all times and

then once he gets going on the open field, he's just absolutely gone. Yeah, no doubt. He benefits from a great offensive line, but to your point, I do think he's a player who I don't want to say he's offensive line proof, but as much of that as you can be as a running back in the NFL. It's funny because I was, I remember I was doing a live stream on draft night when they drafted Jameer Gibbs and the entire internet was like, uh, LOL, lions, you spent a pick on a running back. And I remember saying, uh, yeah, I understand where you're getting at, but you're going to have to play him.

And if he's good, it's going to be a problem. And, uh, boy, is it a problem to face Jameer Gibbs? The Vikings have not changed for the better in their run defense, but I also feel like the first level never is tackling Jameer Gibbs anyway. So it's going to come down to whether the secondary can handle him. I just don't see a lot of answers for Jameer Gibbs. Like there's a lot of teams where if you do X, you could probably slow down this team's running game. And what Ben Johnson was really, really good at is it kind of reminded me of Gary Kubiak in a way is that he would

keep going after it. And even if you use that pseudo playoff game from week 18 last year, the early part of that game Gibbs wasn't dominating. He wasn't running over them and they just would not go away from it. And that's what I'm curious about with the new office of coordinators. Just will you stick with it? Because with this guy, you know, he's going to break it eventually if you get there, but that could be a hard thing to do for offensive coordinators.

We certainly know that from watching KOC here that sometimes it's like even when it's working a little if it's not working a lot like, all right, all right, I'm gonna push the pass button. And I do think that that's a difficult thing to stick to when you're an office of coordinator. For sure. And I think that that might be where the Dan Campbell influence comes in of like, hey, what are we doing?

Why are we getting away from this? Like, keep going back to this is gonna work eventually. And no, like you mentioned it, there were so many this season, especially after David Montgomery got hurt, you're kind of like sitting there. You're watching this production. You're like, oh my gosh, like what if he was just the only running back that they had? You know, because his numbers were just so insane. He ends up finishing with 20

touchdowns and you know, I think Montgomery had like 13 or something like that. So what he could do on his own is is something that's fascinating and I think that's something maybe to watch out for next year. I do think at the end of the day it's like an organizational plan to keep this guy fresh and extend his career for as long as possible. So I I don't know how much that changes, but to your point, you know with the new offensive coordinator, it could go the other way too. We are like hey, you know I know this. I know

we're only trying to get this guy like 12 to 14 carries game, but he's averaging 8 8 yards per carrier right now. Like can we just keep spamming this? And yeah, it's the number of weapons on that offense. I think is is fascinating and how they're able to spread it out because I think that that was something that Ben Johnson did a really good job of is everybody ate like, you know, it's like the joke about the everybody eats

offense or like the Packers have five wide receiver ones or whatever. Like I think the Lions are kind of the exception in that case where like they have all these guys and they do compliment each other perfectly. And they do end up getting the most out of each other while still maximizing their individual production. So yeah, fascinated to see how Morton calls these games. Like I said, I think Ben was really kind of surgical in that aspect. So, you know, does he go away from Jameer Gibbs? But that was something that Ben Johnson

took a lot of flack for times was in game. It was the Washington game specifically. I think he only had like eight carries or something like that and fans were like what the heck? So yeah, definitely something to watch for. But I mean, I think he's gonna be RB2, RB3 in the league next year in terms of production. Well, the Packers offense was more like everybody snacks if Detroit is- Yes. Well, the Packers offense was more like everybody snacks. If everybody eats, but in Green Bay, everybody just gets a little bit of food.

Yeah, there was a time where Montgomery went down against the Vikings last year. And I remember saying to whoever is around me in the press box, like that's actually bad for the way that Jameer Gibbs is going to get more carries. And I understand that a process in the regular season when you're trying to make sure that a guy isn't carrying the ball 253 hundred times, but at some point he is so good that you have to kind of

sense. And this is what I want to talk about too. And I know that we can get to the defense a little bit, but I think that windows to win are really interesting to talk about in football because it's so difficult to keep the team together, keep greatness together and make it affordable.

So golf's got his new contract and then here comes the flood of other deals, the St. Brown, the Sewell and so forth. And it seems like they've been sort of handing out money left and right. I'm curious about how long this has to go. Like what is the pressure level of the Detroit Lions? Because it's so funny how fast that this can change. And coming from Buffalo originally, where they missed the playoffs

for I think 19 straight seasons. But now if they don't win the Super Bowl next year, they are a gigantic failure and they might fire their coach. It's like, whoa, what? And the same thing, you've kind of gone through the same thing. And I'm curious about that just from your coverage a gigantic failure and they might fire their coach. It's like, whoa, what? Yeah. Uh, and the same thing, you've kind of gone through the same thing. And I'm curious about that just from your coverage even of seeing this thing rise. And I think the most exciting

moment for fans is not when it's there, but when it's almost there, like when you can see that it's going to be there because the minute that it gets there and you fail on a fourth down and blow a lead to the San Francisco 49ers, then it's wait a minute, you better win for us or you're a gigantic failure. It's a ruthless league. I'm just curious about how you view the rise and then the timeline of like how much longer do they have to get this done? Yeah, it's it's a great question because I do think there's a lot of people who feel like the windows are already closed and I think that's pretty silly. Like my whole thing with them is again, we talked about the talent that they have on that team and

at the end of the day, you can have the great coach, you can have the the the coordinators, but like you have to have players and from a personnel standpoint, they haven't really lost that many. Like I said, just Kevin's Eilert, Frank rag now, Frank rag now is going to be insanely difficult to replace, but maybe Zyler is not. And you know, you take all these pieces. And like I mentioned earlier, yeah, everybody's a year older. And that's kind of a good thing. Like, in theory, these players should only be getting better. Penne, Sewell, St. Brown, Jameson Williams, Aiden Hutchinson,

Kirby Joseph, Brian Branch, Taron Arnold. Like the list goes on and on of players who are young and I think it's an interesting point because I think last year losing to the commanders was such a reality check and not just in the sense that like, oh, you can still lose as a favorite or whatever. But like everything with this team was so linear under Campbell. They went from 313 and won, 9 and 8, just missed a playoff, 12 and 5, NFC championship game, and it was just like, okay, so the next step is winning the Super Bowl. And then all of these injuries happen. And it decimates.

I truly like it was like around week 11 where I was like, oh, has it reached the critical mass? And then they lost like three more starters and they still just kept trucking along. And I just think I kind of forgot where I was going with that point. But you know, you just kind of you get you it really drives home the point like hey just because you're a really good team does not mean you are owed the opportunity to win the Super Bowl and I think that that is the thing that's been hard to swallow for a lot of Lions fans this offseason and what was so crushing about that loss of the commanders in particular so to answer your your question, to get back to the point,

I do think this team has a few years left. Like they do still have guys under contract. The things don't really start getting all that hairy until like 2027. So maybe you got two more years to really give a go at this thing. And then you kind of got to do a little bit of an organizational reset where maybe

you're selling some parts or whatever But their first big decision I think is coming very soon. You know, you have all this money on the books I think there's something like 50 million under or over the cap already for 2026 which can probably be figured out relatively easily with a couple restructures, but They haven't had to let go of anybody that they drafted and developed. And, you know, could it be Jameson Williams? Could it be a guy like Alex Anzolone who came and he was a veteran from the New Orleans Saints, but really was a part of that culture and a fan favorite and all these things. So I still think they have a

few years to kind of have this window where they're should be considered one of the favorites, but the difficult decisions are coming. Well, I think you make a really interesting point just about how everyone expects every single year to just be that next step, that there won't be a step back. And so far, they've kind of been right about that. Like even when you don't get quite as far in the playoffs because of the loss to Washington, still more wins in the regular season. But now you've reached a point and this is a weird place to be as well.

Because even with Kevin O'Connell here where they've had 13 and 14 win seasons, but have not won in the playoffs, JJ McCarthy sort of washes this out a little bit, but still it's like the season starts in January and feel like that kind of goes for Detroit where the fans, of course, they're going to get excited every Sunday. They're going to come to the games and everything else. But when you win 15 games the year before and you go almost to the Superbowl the year before that,

like the season really ends up starting in January, which is such a cynical place to be. A hundred percent. For all fans, but don't you feel like this has changed over our lifetimes of where I don't ever remember as a little kid being like, boy, they're window to win. They better get to the play. I mean, those conversations are so interesting to us because they're high level front office type of stuff

that fans have dove so deep into contracts and over the cap and draft and everything else that they really think through a front office lens of every team. But sometimes I think you are the Detroit Lions guys. Like you should be really pumped that your team is just even rolling out there and you don't have to put a bag on your head. Yes. And it's very funny that you say that because it is probably my number one pet peeve with sports fandom today is that everybody thinks they're the general manager of their team. And if they don't approach their fandom with that kind of nuance, then they're, they're a bad fan or they're stupid or something like that. Like there, a year and one thing that used to drive me absolutely insane

is these wars that would happen at the end of every Lions season when they're four and 11 and they're going into their last game and then they just win it for no reason and fall three spots in the draft order and everybody's mad and they're mad at the fans who are happy after order and everybody's mad and they're mad at the fans who are happy and they think those people are idiots and like they're smarter than the other fans because they realize that it actually would have been a good thing to lose and they're refusing to let themselves be happy about their team winning a football game. I do wonder if like part of that is like we're just adults now and so when we were, we weren't thinking about it like that. But it really does feel like the the other things you mentioned the

over the cap, like you hear NBA fans talking, they're like, Oh, you know, this guy, he's not gonna be able to get here on a mid level exception idiot. And obviously, I have no idea what I'm talking about. But I'm just like, that's how the conversation sounds to me. And it's like, what are you talking about? And I remember one of the one of my like defining thought or, you know, prevailing thoughts from from the NFC Championship game of 2023 is I just remember I said on like our post game video, it'll never feel like this again.

And just the rise and the Oh my gosh, I can't believe this is happening just everywhere you go. Like, it was just this no expectations. Honestly, I think they were still waiting for the other shoe to drop in those two games before the NFC championship. And then it didn't happen. And it was just like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. This is all I've ever wanted.

Everything else from here is gravy. The second you go to the NFC championship, those thoughts are over. And I actually wrote a column after they, they beat the, the Titans 52 to 14 this year. And, um, people were like mad because there were two drives where the Titans offense strung together some, some explosive plays. And this is, and the, when you watch games, when your team stinks, or when you cover a bad team, you're kind of looking for reasons for hope,

reasons for optimism. And when you watch a contender, those thoughts start to get replaced by the fears of what won't be. And you just look at it through this lens, like to your point, the season starts in January, everything up until here is a test and every wrong answer needs to be corrected.

And that's just not how sports works. Like in 10 years, you're gonna be reminiscing about these days, like I do about the 2012 Tigers, and you're gonna be sitting there and then be like, oh yeah, and then they had this little punt returner, Kaleigh Freeman, he was amazing too. There's just so many people who mean so much to you right now. And that's like a cool thing that they're

actually winning for you. Can you just enjoy it? Yeah, I don't know. Sports fandom is a weird thing. And I consider myself an idiot sports fan outside of every team that I don't like have teams that I actually root for. Um, I'm, I'm no better than, uh, the people in my replies every day. So I try to give those people some grace, but you know, no, I'm really, uh, really relating to what you're talking about, because this show is a show that dives into over the cap.com. And I wrote a book on pro football focus and like this is this is what we do on the show and I

Love that fans are so informed that we can have these discussions about hey This is how the Vikings are building through a competitive rebuild versus the Bears and Lions are tanking And this is so interesting of how that's coming together and how we evaluate players has changed This is so interesting of how that's coming together and how we evaluate players has changed enormously during my time in media where fans are so much better at it than they use. I think if an office of lineman allowed a notable sack in years past, it would have just been memorable and they would have said that that player stunk. But now we're like, well, let's go look at the actual data that we have and all this then and hey, we can really identify and we can actually see ahead in the future to this is when a player's contract really gets difficult as opposed to being a three year contract, that kind of thing. And I think we're so much better at understanding what's going on because of

that. And that goes for X's and O's film analysis, everything else. But last year I got frustrated because Sam Darnold was having one of the coolest seasons that I've ever seen. I mean, this was a guy who was nothing in the league, but the biggest boss. That's the only way Sam Darnold was ever talked about. And he proved everybody wrong, had this crazy season,

played great, led the team, handled the whole situation. Awesome, so many great situation. Awesome. So many great moments. And then as soon as he lost, and actually it happened against Detroit, I think fans had given up already after Detroit loss. It was like, all right, get rid of this guy. He's that was worth nothing. He's a bum. I don't care about this. Honda McCarthy. I was like, that was a really fun season and you never know how it's going to end. And in the middle of it, as he's having these five touchdown games against Atlanta and, and like, I think a lot of us knew they had enough weaknesses to where if they faced the wrong team in the playoffs, it was going to go like that.

And they were there saw the interior had been taped together. Like you just knew. And I remember saying, leading into the Rams game, like if they face the Rams, this is going to be a problem because that D line is so nasty. No one thinks they would have won in Philadelphia. The next week, like we knew the team wasn't quite there yet, but yet in week eight, nine, it's like, well, get, get onto McCarthy. Like this season,

it doesn't matter and that kind of stuff. And that really frustrated me. Like, I think we can balance this 100% appreciation of a good team and the journey that is an NFL season because I love like the first quarter of the season and then you're getting the feeling of the team and they go through some stuff or maybe they don't like last year and then they get to sustain it. Like I love that arc of a team throughout 17 games and the weather changes and it just becomes more more hard nose as the season goes on right and

they have injuries or drama or whatever you know all the sorts of things every single season is its own book right and I basketball I think was really the first to just be like, no, if you don't want to championship, you're a bum loser who should never even try. And I think that that started to leak very much into football. And it's something that I don't want to be here. And yet here you and I are covering two teams that if they don't win championships are bum losers. Right. I mean, both of these teams. And that's what makes makes I think Minnesota and Detroit right now such an interesting rivalry a true rivalry is that both of these teams are going

into this season saying like this should be us at the top of that division if not for maybe them which is a fascinating place to be in those two games are really going to be something including to be in those two games are really going to be something, including Christmas Day, Netflix. Hey, welcome you in. I got a present for you guys when you come here on Christmas Day. I'm looking forward to it. No, but I think you raise a good point. You like there. There is a room for for balance, but I think you know it's just it's it's gone so far in the one direction and I there's a great tweet that I love and I can't remember the

name of it, but it's from a guy from hockey Twitter and he's like this. The point of sports is not to win a championship. The point of sports is to be sad in a group and you know at the end of the day, that's how your season is most likely going to end unless you're one team and. You just have to appreciate and I think that's the thing is like years down the road, Vikings fans will remember that past season

and Lions fans will remember that past season as just amazing, you know? And they'll remember, they'll look at it through rose colored glasses, they'll yearn for the chance to win 14 or 15 games again. And I just feel like in the moment, I wish people like did a little bit more. I don't want to call it reflection, but just like enjoyed the moment a little bit more like,

dude, we're incredible, you know, like we can't lose. It doesn't matter. We got Sam Darnold, you know, throwing passes to Justin Jefferson that should never be completed. And he's just snatching them out of the air for a touchdown Vikings win again. I just I love I agree with you that like just the the journey from the hot summer training camp to this these cold like desolate days where all you're thinking about is Sunday and what it's going to look like on the field against this team or that team. Like I, I truly love that. And, you know, I, I understand why, you know, fans do get caught up in the, the win now. Cause like I said, like those really good Tigers teams from back in the day, I will forever

like shake my fist at the fact that they didn't win a world series, but I still love them. They still shaped, I think, who I am as a fan and my love for sports because I got to experience those things. So yeah, enjoy yourselves, people. I just think you can't lose that. You can't spend 17 weeks really angry and worried about what's going to happen in the playoffs. And I feel like Vikings fans, because they've been so close so many times are really suffering from that of the like, just this could undo us. This is going to be the problem. This is going to be the thing that gets the number of questions I get already in mini camp about the kicker because they're worried that he's going to miss a very important kick that costs them is kind of amazing to me. And I think it's telling about the psychology and it goes so differently between Detroit

and Minnesota, but it sort of arrives at the same place. It's like Detroit is so horrible for so long. Now that you're here, like if we don't do it, we could go back to hell. And with the Vikings, it's are you ever forever stuck in a different circle of hell, which is that you're always going to come just close enough and then not make it which you know each season for both franchises a new hope as maybe NFL films would put it and maybe that's maybe that's for me what it really was is

just growing up watching those NFL films. The season recaps they would be like the Vikings lost in the playoffs, but they will warriors along the 18 best plays and games of the year. And you're like, this thing was awesome. What are you? Yeah. They won. They won six games, but the NFL films made it look like it was a great season or something like that.

So I don't know. I just, I feel like don't, don't ever lose that because also there's another point here to be made. Detroit knows what this is like. The Vikings really don't. You could all be the Bears of the Jets where everything thinks and you're never good and you never have a quarterback and you're never in that conversation. It's just sort of imploring people to appreciate where you've gotten to. Well also, go to overthecap.com. You don't have to feel bad about that. Let me ask you one more thing, Nolan, before I let you go, because you're you're a Detroit guy. You've been there through the the thickest and the thinnest. A lot of the thinnest. I want to know like the lowest and saddest moment that you covered or maybe even before you were in media there of Detroit Lions football. Like what's the moment where you're just like that's I don't even know what to do.

Man, there are a couple of moments that come to mind. One of them is I think it might've been 2019 and they played the Vikings and. It was like week five or something like that, so they start the season like 201 or something. They give up a 21 point lead in their season opener. And then they go to Green Bay for Monday Night Football at 201 and there's two hands to the face calls on Trey Flowers on the final drive that basically keep the Packers alive.

They end up winning. It's like, oh, my gosh, it's happening again. And I think one thing that's really interesting, and this is the stark difference between those Lions teams and these Lions teams, is they just instantly collapse. Like they just they like Dan Campbell has never been a victim in his mind and his life. And I think that that ultimately if you could distill like the one trait that they needed from a head coach who was successful, it's that because I just remember the very next week after that Packers game, it was like, how are they going to respond moment of adversity? What are Matt Patricia's men going to do?

And I'm pretty sure they gave up like 500 yards to Kurt Cousins. And I think this was the same year. I cannot remember, but at halftime or with seconds left in the half, Kurt Cousins threw a Hail Mary to Kyle Rudolph. Uh, that was caught in the end. So I can't remember if that was the same game, but it feels like it would be. I want to say maybe that it was, I remember very specifically in that game that Adam Thielen caught a deep crosser and hurt his hamstring in that one. It was like an unbelievable throw to the back

of the end zone where he comes all the way across the field diving touchdown. And for whatever reason, Kirk Cousins, I did this one time where I looked at Kirk Cousins stats as a Viking and then took out the games against Detroit and I was like, oh My gosh, she had like a hundred and thirty quarterback rating against just Detroit. Thank you, Matt Patricia Matt Patricia for a guy who came from Belichick for some reason just played cover one against the Vikings the whole game and Single play action was wide open and that's like Kirk Cousins best thing and he would just feast and feast. I do remember this this Hail Mary because I feel like Rudolph

just sort of reached up and grabbed it. Yeah it was that game. Yeah and I just remember laughing like it just like. But then the next time the next time they faced Detroit was there have been very few times in my entire career covering this team where I was like, do I have to go? And the game against Detroit that year in US Bank Stadium where David Blau started, I was like, can I just stay home and maybe like watch the other games? Because Detroit with David Blau starting, this is not going to be good. But yeah, that's and that's I mean, not even close to the lowest of the lowest of the low moments

along the way like, you know, so another way I can rattle through some here the 2020 Thanksgiving Day, the Matt Patricia's last game they're playing the Houston Texans, it's COVID. Nobody's in the stadium. It's just depressing and like you know, it's kind of like supposed to be like one of the best days of the year in the city and all that other stuff and then Deshaun Watson and the Houston Texans come into town and kick the

absolute crap out of the Detroit lines. And that was the game where Sheila Hamp was photographed in the press box with her hands in her face. But I just remember. There must've been like 30 some seconds left. It was second down and Deshaun Watson takes a knee and the two teams start to come out to midfield, but for some reason they were still doing like the stadium, uh, like pump up noises and the guy just going and the hell's bells starts

playing as, as they are walking out to midfield and the guy just going and the hell's bells starts playing as as they are walking out to midfield and the guys like my my my my my my my Motown it's third down and I was just I just remember I was cracking up internally because it was just like what do you guys do it's it's over it's over don't you understand this is all over go home and yeah that was another one there's I mean so many Packers losses over the years that come to mind especially like when I was a kid growing up or even a more recent years like There were so many times that like they went to the the finale against Green Bay with like a chance to win

The division or like get in the playoffs and like I just like completely memory hold for my life because they lost every single one of them Yeah, a lot of bad moments. Oh and like, I just like completely memory hold for my life because they lost every single one of them. Yeah. A lot of bad moments. Oh, and 16, obviously I was like 12. So that definitely hurt. Yeah. It's funny that some of the bad ones when I got here, the lines were actually good and Jim Caldwell was like a pretty good coach. 20, 17, and they kind of always found a way to not get the job done. I think maybe one of those years they started out seven

and two and then just sort of faded down the stretch or whatever else, but they had really good teams. And then the Matt Patricia era was a throwback to all the other eras that you had before. And then Matthew Stafford goes and wins the Superbowl and you know, everybody's got their own problems, I guess I would say for, for Vikings fans, but Nolan Bianchi, you are a guy. I always look forward to seeing every time you come to Minnesota. So we'll,

we'll have Christmas dinner together. Yes, please. Boy that, you know, for me, I just, I don't really know that much about holidays and stuff like that but I do of all the people that have families that are traveling and cover these games and Roger's like I don't care yeah yeah so I'm what I feel like I'm one of the fortunate ones like my wife is just super chill and like I told her that I was I was like bad news and she's like okay we'll celebrate on the next day and I'm like, OK, cool. And then both of our parents live like within driving distance to us.

So like it's not like I feel bad for everybody who like has to go out of town to see their parents or visit with family or something like that. So I'm one of the lucky ones. But yeah, it is a giant. Wet blanket on the on the holiday season, especially with already doing Thanksgiving. But you know, at least we'll get to see each other. I'll make sure I have the mustache. I've been dropping some LB so I can wear the mustache again. So you know, okay, looking good.

Yeah, you kind of got you got like a little bit more mustache. Yeah, I got like a hybrid. Still. Yeah, I was hoping for it today, but you know, let's let's all that this is June, like we gotta be right when time comes. But I think that game I think that game will determine the NFC North on Christmas. So for sure. I can't you know, at the end of the day, I can't wait for it. Like it should be awesome. Like that's that's why we do this. That's why we like

is to be in the building for these big games and just you know it's so at the end of the day it's a it's a little bit of a wet blanket but I don't have kids so like I'm honestly pretty excited. Okay yeah well anytime it's football all right let's stop Midwest goodbye Nolan I'll see you later. It sounds good. Football.