Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Live from Orlando: Vikings owner Mark Wilf talks QBs and McCarthy at No.2????

Episode Date: March 26, 2024

At the owners meetings in Orlando Matthew Coller is fresh off speaking with Vikings owner Mark Wilf. What did he have to say? Matthew brings you the most interesting comments from the Vikings owner and a rumor from NFL Network that JJ McCarthy could be the No. 2 overall pick. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. This one taking place inside my hotel room in Orlando after a very, very interesting day of conversations with Kevin O'Connell and with Mark Wilf, the owner of the Minnesota Vikings. We just got done with that not too long ago. And after transcribing everything he said, I've put together a bunch of the most interesting quotes from him.

A couple from Kevin O'Connell that I didn't get the exact ones to you earlier with my conversation with Dane Mizutani. So you can go back and watch that where over at the Ritz Carlton in Orlando, Dane and I had a really fun discussion about everything that we heard from Kevin O'Connell. So we can get back into some of that stuff as we go along and the show, but I wanted to make sure that I brought you everything that the owner had to say today, but I want to start in a slightly different place that the owner's meetings, very much like Indianapolis are wrought with rumors. You got all sorts of reporters, executives, coaches wandering around all in the same place and people hear things and there becomes buzz. And so it's always the,

what's the buzz around Indianapolis. But this year the owners meetings has lots of buzz because there's the potential for trades up to the top of the NFL draft for quarterbacks. And anytime you have that, then it just ramps up all of the owners meetings buzz to 11. And suddenly the discussion isn't just about whether they're going to change the kickoff, which I did say to the owner of the Vikings, Mark Wilf, let's get the kickoff back in the game, my guy, because I like those players like Quadri Ismail and Mel Gray and Tamaric Vanover and Dante Hall and Josh Cribs and of course, Cordero Patterson touching the football and making exciting game-changing plays. And he seemed to be on board. They're going to decide on that probably tomorrow of

whether they're going to make a significant step to get the kickoff back in the game. So in previous years, that would have been one of the biggest stories from the owners meetings. But now everybody's asking everybody what is going on with these quarterbacks at the top of the draft. And our friend Tom Palacero, Minnesotan from NFL Network dropped a bomb on television when he said that executives around the owners meetings believe that JJ McCarthy could be the number two overall pick. So now here's the question. This is the new game.

Smokescreen or not? Is it a smokescreen that Washington thinks JJ McCarthy is going to be the number two overall pick? Let's talk about the odds of it being not true first, and then we'll get into the other part of it, which is what would it mean for the Vikings if it were to be true? So first, draft buzz from the owners meetings is probably the least of all reliable buzz. In fact, somebody joked on Twitter that it might be a game that they play is which executive can get their leaked BS out onto television. But in this case with the quarterbacks, I don't think we ever really know which way the actual teams are looking

at these quarterbacks. And it's not completely implausible that JJ McCarthy could be the darling of the ball. He certainly came away from Indianapolis being considered a top 10 draft pick and has been connected many, many times to the Minnesota Vikings. At the same time, he was also looked at as a late first round pick during the season and now suddenly is being talked about as high as number two. And there might be a little bit of Mac Jones vibe to this where McCarthy is thought of as a first round pick. But if you recall, the San Francisco 49ers, by all reports, were going to draft Mac Jones. And instead on draft night, they surprised everyone 49ers, by all reports, were going to draft Mac Jones. And instead on draft night, they surprised everyone with Trey Lance.

Now, Mac Jones was still a first round pick, but just not the first round pick of that team. And my friend Eric Eager points out online that this same time last year, right around the owners meetings, Will Levis was being considered the second quarterback off the board from the draft market or from the uh the betting markets and also um that where the executive uh came from that is now the gm of the washington commanders adam peters was san francisco and san francisco historically does not leak stuff out before the draft. So maybe there's some discussion that McCarthy could be all the way up there at the top from other teams.

But as far as Adam Peters, as far as Washington goes, they're probably not telling anyone. And I still think that all indications are that Washington is going to take Jaden Daniels and not JJ McCarthy, because I'm still looking at this as a three tier potential first slash second round with these quarterbacks. And the first tier being Caleb Williams, Jaden Daniels, and Drake may. And then the second tier being JJ McCarthy alone in his own tier. Uh, and then the third tier being Michael Penix and Bo Nix. And I'm not sure exactly in what order, I guess it depends on who you believe. So as of this moment, do I think that JJ McCarthy will be the number two pick? No, I do not. Uh, because I think all indications have pointed to Jaden Daniels. If it was Drake may, well, look, he's

been projected as the number two overall pick really since how long going all the way back to last season, going back to the beginning of the season. And oftentimes that is what happens is somebody is projected as number one throughout the draft season. We try really hard to find anybody who says that guy's not actually going number one. And then in the end of the day, uh, of course, yes. that guy's not actually going number one. And then in the end of the day, of course, yes, they end up going number one and usually number two as well. And so I still think it's going to be Caleb Williams, then Jaden Daniels. However, since we have ourselves a rumor or a smokescreen, what we're doing for the next month leading up to the NFL draft is we're going

to talk about just about every single one of these that sneaks out into the atmosphere. So why don't we, if JJ McCarthy were to go number two, then the pressure for the Vikings to move up to three or four becomes immense because the only hesitation that I would have about the Vikings moving up to number four would be that you're spending a lot of draft capital to get the second tier quarterback in this class. But if Washington was fully talked into JJ McCarthy as their quarterback and nobody else, then the potential for Daniels, the potential for Drake may is so extremely, extremely high that the Vikings would be insane not to give up that extra first round draft pick in order to move up to get one of those quarterbacks because the gap

in talent between Daniels and may versus Pennix and Nix is pretty extreme. That's a big gap between those two as far as the quality of prospect that we're talking about, or at least that's my perception at the moment. And from watching them, you can see the high, high end of Jaden Daniels and Drake May being higher than that of Bo Nix and Michael Penix. So in that case, if Washington was to decide that they want a winner in JJ McCarthy and they want someone they think they can develop in the coming years and maybe the most, what would you call it? Best processor, best, most coachable, all those things, best leader, which maybe JJ McCarthy has those qualities ahead of other quarterbacks.

So if that's the case and it actually happens, then the Vikings need to push the gas pedal fully down. Now that would also mean that we'd be talking about waiting until draft night for this to happen. Maybe just the possibility of it happening means that they should try to get up to number four or look, I mean, number three may become more vital to them at that point too. If they were sold on only two of the three, if it was only may and McCarthy and one's off the board, I'm assuming that they would

have Daniels higher, but maybe that's not the case. Maybe he doesn't play in a way that Kevin O'Connell likes as much as Drake May and JJ McCarthy. So this would really throw a wrench in things. We have been very much surprised before when there has been a lot of quarterbacks. Think about if you go back to 2020, no wait, 2018 and that draft and how Sam Darnold was projected as number one and it ended up being Baker Mayfield. And then the order played out the way that it did with Lamar Jackson, who was projected as a top 15 quarterback. And he ends up going number 32 overall. So these things can play out in a lot of different ways.

But in this scenario, I think it would become absolutely vital that the Vikings move up. If JJ McCarthy is there at number four and the Vikings are still sitting at number 11 and they want the moon, the stars and the sun to move up to get JJ McCarthy. Well, then you go to option number B, I think, where you'd be talking about looking at panics and Knicks as your potential quarterbacks rather than give up that extra first round draft pick. So it sounds to me just from talking with Kevin O'Connell today and now the owner, Mark Wilf, which I'll get to his quotes in just a moment, that it's plans on plans on plans. So there's, if X happens, then we do Y. So if JJ McCarthy goes number two overall, then what? Then try to get to number three to make sure you get to Drake May. Is it Drake May by any means if

he gets to number three, but if Washington takes May at number two, then you decide not to trade up and you wait and see what happens. So many things going on here. And I am really going to be fascinated to see if the JJ McCarthy hype turns out to be a Malik Willis, or if it turns out to be, uh, you know, some situation like will Levis from last year, or if the NFL truly did fall in love with this quarterback throughout the draft process. I mean, I think that this possibility adds a really interesting wrinkle and look, you know, when I talk about the unknowns and how crazy things can be in the draft, I mean, some of these things also come to fruition as well. I mean, there was rumors that Trayvon Walker could be number one over Aiden Hutchinson. And I thought no way,

no way anyone would pick anybody over Aiden Hutchinson. And yet that is what ended up happening. So you can never underestimate the power of a team falling in love during draft season, falling in love at the combine and then with their meetings and everything else. But as of right now, I think just coming out of one conversation with Kevin O'Connell, we'll have another one tomorrow and looking to line up at least one or two guests from the owners meetings, but also do another live show tomorrow night as well. So we're going to have breakfast with O'Connell. That's kind of how it usually works. So we had a conversation on the side with him, just five of us beat reporters,

myself, Dane Mizutani, Alec Lewis from the Athletic, Ben Gessling, and Kevin Seifer. So we were all sitting down with Kevin O'Connell and Mark Wilf today, but tomorrow it'll be more open where Ian Rappaport will be there, Adam Schefter, people like that. And I imagine that Kevin O'Connell will get a ton of attention from the NFL insiders asking about the quarterback situation. So it's always nice to have that side session with just the local people and shout out to Vikings PR for making that happen because they don't have to. And we really appreciate it. So we were able to get those one-on-one conversations with those guys today. And then we'll have more to say about what Kevin O'Connell's message was,

knowing that it will be replayed on NFL Network and ESPN and all those things when he talks about the quarterback situation and so forth. So there is your kind of biggest rumor of the day coming from Tom Pelissero. But I also have a list of things that Mark Wilf talked about and the quotes that he had from today. And I'll get to some of your comments as well. And then after about an hour here i actually got to run there's an event over uh at the ritz carlton that i am attending so uh we'll talk about these things and hopefully get to some of your comments as well so let me start off with what mark wolf had to say about kirk cousins leaving the owner has not spoken

since kirk cousins chose the at Atlanta Falcons. And here is what he had to say. He said, we made a serious effort to retain his services as our quarterback and we put that out there and it is what it is. So from his comment there, of course, there's not a lot to that, but you get the sense that they all were on the same page with Kirk Cousins is worth X number of dollars to us. And I think that Mark Wilf has seen this happen so many times with Cousins where he has all of the negotiating power and he wins that negotiation handily. And at some point you say, all right, well, that's enough. We've gone too far and we're not going to go any farther. And that's where they got to with this.

So I got the impression that they were not shocked. He called it a process that had played out. And I've got the longer quotes if I need to reference them here, but he, he called it a longer process that they wanted to let, you Adafomensa because that's how he's done business since he got here was, hey, this is the price and we're going to do it or we're not. And that seems to have played out with a lot of different players. But when it comes to the quarterback position, that's always very different. And Mark Wilf and every owner in the world will say, Hey, I'm not the football guy. I let the football guy make the decisions. But I think that we're also all grown up enough to know that when it comes to the quarterback position, owners are going to have the last say. And that is certainly going to be the case with the Wilfs that they would have had the last say here that if you go to them and say, look, 45 mil for Kirk, 100 guaranteed, what do you think?

And they are the ones that ultimately drew that line in the sand. And it is what it is. I don't think was said, if you want to understand the tone, in a disrespectful manner. And of course, Mark Wilf said that you know they appreciated the six years and kirk and his family and his leadership and all those things but i think it is what it is really references just that they were prepared for it and they were ready for the very distinct possibility that kirk cousins could end up somewhere else and so that's what ended up happening uh and you know know, they're also, I think from both O'Connell and Mark Wilf sounded like a little, maybe a little skip in their step, you

know, when they're looking at all these possibilities from trading up and that, and we'll get to some of the other quotes, we'll talk about it there. But it felt like the Vikings owner seemed pretty excited about the concept of drafting a new quarterback and having a chance to build around that player. So I'll give you another quote here from Mark Wilf about that very quarterback situation. He said the move now to have two first round draft picks that gives us the flexibility to do whatever we need to do one way or another, I know there's a plan. So flexibility is the name of the game that they are using. Kevin O'Connell said it as well. Mark Wolf said it, but this trade to get the 23rd overall pick could end up being the linchpin to this entire thing. It could be their

most brilliant move. I don't know if we have any chess players on chess.com, but when you make a brilliant move that is rare and exceptional, it's like a teal color that pops up and it says you made a brilliant move. Well, this could be their teal colored brilliant move is to get the 23rd pick from the Houston Texans because it does allow them a lot of different avenues. It allows them to try to go all in for three. It allows them to have enough draft capital, make a case for number four. And if they stay at number 11, which I think is not likely, but realistic considering that there needs to be two to tango here. And at some point, Arizona or New England could say,

nope, we're just not going to do that. It's just not enough. So that I think that their a plan is to move up to number three and the B plan is to move up to number four. And the C plan is to stay at 11 and 23 and then approach it from there. But they can now at least make an argument for all of those things. They can put together a package that's big enough to present it to the New England Patriots and say, hey, look, this will change your franchise. That's really downtrodden, especially on offense. And by the way, have you noticed how good of an offensive draft this is? Maybe you should want 11 and 23.

Or they can go to number four and say, look, Arizona, I totally get that you want Marvin Harrison jr. But have you noticed how deep this receiver draft is? Wouldn't you rather have Dallas Turner and then get a second round receiver? That's almost as good as Marvin Harrison jr. And if both of those teams say, you know what, screw off, We're not going to do those deals. Then the Vikings could stay at number 11 and also get defensive talent as well or offensive line. I mean, the left guard situation is not good. It's Blake Brandel right now. I don't get the impression that Dalton Reisner is coming back. I think it is possible, but it seems like Dalton Reisner overvalues himself. He did it last year. He did it this year. And him tweeting about how teams should be paying

attention to him was just downright bizarre, which seems to me that the offers that were coming in for Dalton Reisner were way below what he thinks he's worth. And I don't think the Vikings are going to give him $15 million a year or $12 million a year to be their left guard. So they've got positions to address in the draft. If they were to stay at 11 and 23, that's part of the flexibility conversation. Also, you could try to move up from 23 if you really needed to, or move back from 11 if you thought that nobody was going to pick a quarterback there. There's so many options that it gives them that if they were just sitting at number 11, they couldn't A, beat out other offers in the same way that they can now,

but they also would not have two where you get the fifth year option, first round talents, top 25 picks in the draft. And if you're picking 23rd and take a defensive player in this draft, that's going to be like taking a top 10 defensive player in other drafts because you have all these receivers and quarterbacks who are going to be picked at the top. So flexibility, the name of the game for the owner of the Minnesota Vikings. Hey, U.S. cellular customers, I've got good news, so don't hit that skip forward button just yet. I'm talking about their special customer event, Us Days.

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Terms apply. Now, I'm sure you all want to know how involved Mark Wilf and Ziggy Wilf, et cetera, are going to be in the decision-making process. And it was a little bit of a longer answer because of course, Mark Wilf is going to be involved. They're not just going to say, Hey, wake me up the day after the draft, tell me who we got and I'll go back to my yacht or whatever. Uh, that's not how the Wilfs do it. Of course, or probably that many owners, maybe there's a few that do it that way, but most want to, these are, these, these football teams are toys for most of these owners. So they want to know what's going on with their real life fantasy team. So, but if you have an owner that's too involved, like David Tepper, who tells their team, not only to draft a certain

quarterback, which is probably okay. Cause he was ranked ranked number one by a lot of people, but then most likely pushed their coaching staff to have to play Bryce Young when he was not ready and the team was horrendous and then fired everyone when it didn't work. That's not the Wilfs. I think that they are much more, I don't know, what is it thought out than that less reactionary than some other ownerships, which makes for a lot of entertainment value when there are reactionary ownerships, but I don't think it's really what you want. So of course, Mark Wolf was asked about that and he said, we know what we don't know. And these guys are running our organization for a reason. And we have all the confidence in the world in whatever way we go. Uh, so this kind of connects back to, I mean, we know what we don't know is I think the acknowledgement and right

before that, he said that, you know, Kevin O'Connell clearly has knowledge as a former quarterback. I think that this is an acknowledgement that if it's just a GM picking the quarterback, then okay. But if it's Kevin O'Connell, it's just different. I mean, he changes the math of this decision and the confidence in this decision because, well, anybody can be wrong. The best quarterbacks in the world might get it wrong when they evaluate their guy. But if you're talking about the odds of success and trying to weigh the odds, putting Kevin O'Connell on it rather than the owner picking, it is probably going to work out more times out of a hundred that you're going to have better odds. And that's one of the reasons that you hire Kevin O'Connell is that you have to know at some point

you're going to want to draft a quarterback and you have someone that you can pair with that quarterback for many years to come. And that's an important factor. You're looking for that Sean McVay golf at the, at first or McVay Stafford or Andy Reed Mahomes, like you're looking for that play caller and quarterback connection that is going to exist for some time. That's what you're looking for. And for the Wilfs in this decision, they really do need to kind of get out of the way because they're not going to be able to turn on college football games and tell you better than Kevin O'Connell, who's going to be the best quarterback of the lot. Again, anybody can get this wrong, but if I'm putting my money down on somebody, and this is why I have said that I'm comfortable with whoever they pick,

because I'll know that it was Kevin O'Connell's pick and that I'm assuming he's going to have a better understanding of likelihood of success than me. So even if I'm a little more down on this McCarthy idea, if they pick them like, okay, well then off we go because he's going to work closely with that guy and develop him and put everything into him. It is not going to be a situation like with some defensive head coaches. Maybe I'm not saying that Mike Zimmer was exactly like this, but you could see some other head coaches on the defensive side being like, hey, that quarterback's your position on offense. I'm going to focus on my defense. No, this is Kevin O'Connell is going to have this quarterback in his office every single day.

I guarantee you every single day that's going to be the case. So that, I think, gives you the best opportunity to succeed is having him do the evaluation, having him make the pick. And at very least from what Mark Wilf said, it seems like they feel the same way that they understand that Kevin O'Connell is here for a reason. And this is one of the reasons it's to pick a quarterback. So if you were wondering, are they going to meddle, which all owners meddle? Well, you know, they're going to be informed if they're trading up multiple first round draft picks to take Drake May. But I think by that point, they've already signed off on all of the plans that Kevin O'Connell and Kweisi Adafo-Mensa have. So there you go. And this is why over the years,

I have been hesitant to be overly critical of the Vikings ownership because while I understand the frustration of, and we'll get to this in a minute, of bringing back Kirk, never tanking, all that sort of stuff. I also think that as far as owners go, if there was a spectrum of crazy involved owners to less crazy involved, they are far further on the less crazy involved than, you know, your Carolina, your Dan Snyder's, your Jerry Jones's that are just, or at least, you know, maybe Jerry's lost a little bit of power, but back in the day, Jerry Jones is running the entire team. And, you know, I, I just, I think that you're in good shape there that even though some of the times they brought back Kirk, I thought it was more of a dedication to making the playoffs than actually trying to win a super bowl. I'm sure

that some of you had that thought as well, but, uh, I think the move to not sign Kirk is more toward trying to win the Super Bowl. And also that I don't think that they're the ones making the picks. I think that they are the ones that have to be presented ideas and they're the ones that are signing the checks. So of course, if you're the general manager, you're going to owner money bags to say, hey, we want to do this. We want to sign this contract. Can we do it? And I'm sure there have been times where they've said no, but I do not believe that the Wilfs have towered over this decision to the point where they're saying, you have to take this guy, make this happen by any means, no matter what, or you're going to be fired or something like that.

So that was part of the discussion. Now, I'm sure you guys are wondering what Mark Wilf had to say about Justin Jefferson. Now, it was interesting to me that it was a little more tepid than it was last year in training camp. I think in training camp, they thought that they were going to be able to get a deal done. And so Mark Wilf was talking pretty confidently about that. Like, we're going to be really involved in this and we're going to get a deal done and so forth. I, at least that's how I remember it, uh, is him seeming very confident and today a little more muted as far as he wasn't going hyperbole on this. And I think that they're all stepping on eggshells a little bit when it comes to Jefferson.

I'll, I'll read you the exact quotes from Kevin O'Connell a little bit when it comes to Jefferson. I'll read you the exact quotes from Kevin O'Connell a little bit later, but I think they're all a little bit on eggshells with this situation just because they don't want to manipulate this in any way. They don't want him to feel like he's manipulated. So Mark Wilf on Justin Jefferson said, we had productive conversations last season. Same thing here this off season. I'm looking forward to some positive conversations. So that's it. There was, you know, there was mention of, of course, best receiver in the league and so forth. All the, all the typical pats on the back that you do in this scenario for your player that you want to sign to an extension. But,

um, there wasn't like a clear cut confidence. Oh yeah. We're signing him this year. He's going to be our guy. Like we're, we're going to get this done. It was much more last year. We had good discussions. We're going to do it again and see what happens. So I don't think that that should ruin your belief that, that, that there's going to be a contract with Justin Jefferson. I still think that the odds are extremely in the favor of an extension for Justin Jefferson, but it's just a little bit of a switch of the message. I think they're from kind of where they were last summer, where it seemed like everybody, it seemed like Kevin O'Connell, Kweisi Dapomensa, and Mark Wilf, they felt like it was going to happen, and then it didn't, which that's where more of the eyeballs have been on this. Because, excuse me, sorry, I'm not used to warm weather.

Maybe that threw me off a little bit there. But there's more eyeballs on this. That's why there's more speculation. That's why there's more reporting. All that sort of stuff is because they negotiated last year. Had they hadn't done it last year and not gotten a deal done. So I think that that it bumped up the pressure on everybody when it came to Justin Jefferson. But still, that doesn't change anything. It's just that I think that there's a little more like walking on eggshells because you don't want anything to go sideways with this decision. All right. So I asked specifically, I asked this question to Mark Wilf about the overall direction of when they hired Kweisi Daffelmintz and Kevin O'Connell and how they saw the vision playing out from all these areas,

including the salary cap, including the potential of drafting a quarterback and just what they've done this off season with some of that capital. Now that they have being able to push out a Jonathan Grenard cap hit more into 2024 and, and so, or 2025 and things like that. And what Mark Wilf said was we love all the moves that have been made so far, pretty much right on track with what we were hoping to get done. And there's more to come. Oh, there's more to come. Like what? What do you mean, Mark? Like a trade for a quarterback at the top? But now I don't think Mark Wilf has ever come out and said we hate all the moves. So that's never happened. But when we're looking for alignment, I think is something that is, it is very important. And it's something we're always looking for signs of misalignment between a general manager, a coach, an ownership,

are they all on the same page? And when it feels like if we're putting together our pieces, that when they first hired this leadership, that this was the plan all along. And maybe the only thing that threw a wrench into that they would win that many games, that cousins would rehabilitate his image by doing a Netflix special and that he would get as close to Kevin O'Connell as he did. And maybe that part wasn't anticipated either because they couldn't have really known how the head coach quarterback dynamic was going to go, even though they had worked together before. So I think that that made it a little more possible for Kirk to stay. But I also believe that the competitive rebuild plan, which Kweisi Adafo Mensah laid out was different than it would have been if it was Ryan Poles. If Ryan Poles had been hired by the Vikings, clearly from what he's done in Chicago, he would have wanted to tear it all the way down to the studs and go from there.

And with instead, they clearly wanted this plan to have been leading to not paying cousins at a certain age and a certain price tag and looking to the draft to take a quarterback. And from at least all indications that I can see, this plan with these guys has been executed from the start on the day that they're hired to this point that this was laid out. And this was part of the plan from the beginning. And we have arrived there to this pivot point. And everybody knows that if it works out, then Kevin O'Connell is going to be a genius. And so is Kweisi Daffo Mensah. And if it doesn't work out, then they are going to be fools. And we're all going to talk about how

silly they were for whatever quarterback that they drafted and so forth like everyone knows that but i think that from that moment in 2022 where they were hired to the point we have reached right now this was all plotted out from the beginning and it has been executed along the way to get to that point. So at least that's what it sounds like from what Mark Wilf had to say. And again, this is not a man, Mark Wilf, who is always going to lay the cards on the table. This is not Jerry Jones. It's not somebody who's going to be wild out there in the media all the time. And so you have to do a lot of reading between the lines when Mark Wilf talks. That's always been my experience, but I think we get it. I think we understand it. Now, another subject

that I'm sure you guys are interested in is what if they're not good? Are we still in competitive rebuild mode? And the answer is even was sort of posed as a question to Mark Wilf as in, Hey, last year you had injuries though. Isn't that like a pretty reasonable excuse? And he said, you know, not really, uh, because their standard is that they always want to win. They want to be in the playoffs and that it wasn't acceptable to miss the playoffs. Now I don't think that that means that there's hot seats being thrown around, but, uh, was notable that there were excuses made for last season. I think the Wilfs were not happy at all that they missed the playoffs,

especially since they were in the race and had at one point over a 50% chance to make it and then melted down at the end of the season. So that I think clearly still sticks in his craw a little bit that they didn't make the playoffs. That's always where they want to be. And craw a little bit, that they didn't make the playoffs. That's always where they want to be. And what he said, though, was interesting to me when he was asked about this. Can you stay competitive while you are also developing a young quarterback? That was kind of the direct question to Mark Wilf.

And he said, as far as whether you can win in 2024 and have a young quarterback, can they be parallel? I believe so. Yes. So we know that they're not talking about taking a step back. They're not talking about, and they didn't spend like that so far this off season. They're not talking about, Hey, you know, we understand it's going to take a couple of years or whatever. I did the expectation for next year for them is still going to be make the playoffs. The only concern I have is if Sam Darnold were to start at the beginning of the season and struggle, and then you push the young quarterback out there because the owners want to see him. And as much as I have been saying like, Hey, you know, it seems like they're trusting O'Connell, everything else. When you get into the heat of the season and you're

not seeing what you want to see, we all know that that changes how things operate. And that would be a concern of mine. I mean, I think that, you know, it's been brought up a few times and I probably brush it off a little bit, but you know, this comment of like, they're expecting them to win and develop quarterback at the same time. That may be why Sam Darnold is here. I think we do have to prepare ourselves for the very realistic possibility that Sam Darnold is going to be the starting quarterback for a big portion, if not the entire season, which I think everyone's okay with having seen the success of some other quarterbacks who have sat first before they've taken over. Um, but it's very clear that

they're not going to use injuries or the development of a quarterback as excuses for the Vikings not performing, which I think is, it's a hard place to live. If you're Kevin O'Connell, because you need time, you need to be able to work with a quarterback and at the starting gate, they're not going to be great. Uh, at the same time, we have seen plenty of young quarterbacks at least be competitive right away. And I think if the Vikings were a team that was on the doorstep with a young quarterback, that that's an an acceptable outcome but anything short of that may put a little more pressure it's hard to say how much though because i think that from the time they draft a quarterback we should be talking about like a three-year evaluation of how this goes because quarterbacks usually don't become who they're going to be until year three so i guess

if there's one part of all these comments that would make me a slightly on the nervous side, it would probably be that one of like, okay, well, they're still expecting wins. And it doesn't sound like there's a lot of room for error, even though it is a hard task to bring in a young quarterback. So two more comments for you. Uh, the first one, uh, Kevin O'Connell was asked, uh, if he thought the quarterback situation would impact Justin Jefferson's negotiation. And he answered simply, I do not. So he does not think that it will. I don't think so either. And judging by just the vibe, um, it feels like even though they maybe knew how much harder life was about to get than having Kirk Cousins and having Kevin O'Connell take several off-season

vacations, I also felt like a vibe of energy from O'Connell today and from Mark Wilf today that they feel like this could be and Mark Wilf used the word sustainable something that's more sustainable over a half a decade or more if they draft the right quarterback but I don't think it'll impact it either that seemed like where would that be even coming from that Jefferson would not sign until he knew who's going to be the quarterback or if he was on board. I mean, is he watching tape and deciding who he's on board with and who not? No, of course not. I think that he's, well, he might be watching tape to prepare for these quarterbacks, but I

don't think he was ever in a spot where he would say, no, no, no, I'll only play for Kirk Cousins and I'll only sign if Kirk Cousins is here, or if I like the quarterback you take, I don't, I don't think that, uh, that that's the case. And the last thing was just, uh, as far as the communication between O'Connell and Justin Jefferson, I referenced it in the last video with Dane Mizutani, but here's the exact quote for you. Now that I've got it all transcribed, uh, thanks to little help from Kevin Seifert on that. Um, so Kevin O'Connell to Justin on Justin Jefferson's role in the quarterback situation said he's been informed. He's been in the loop. He's been aware that's really been, uh, through this whole

process. So what he's saying is that Justin Jefferson has been in the loop throughout the entire time of this going on. So there you have it. There is everything that I gathered from today from the owners meeting. So I'm going to poke over to the comments here, but I don't have my mouse. So this is a little more tricky. I'm going to move my hands a little bit more. I'm blocking the light now. I didn't think about the sun going down behind me when i plotted this out so you're just gonna have to be a little patient with me as i look what is going on in the uh in the comment section from you guys so uh all right well folks if you don't know what a vpn is you might actually need one and not even realize it if you don't know what a VPN is, you might actually need one and not even realize it.

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Get Surfshark VPN at surfshark.deals slash purpleinsider. Enter the promo code purpleinsider for three extra months for free. You heard me right. Three extra months for free you heard me right three extra months for free that is surf shark dot deals slash purple insider uh from uh intrepid fool uh my order is mccarthy and then the following with reservations williamss, May over Knicks. I think that Penix has a great arm, but simply a pocket passer. So you like McCarthy more than Caleb Williams? I mean, if they were able to get Caleb Williams, you'd have to do that with pretty much no questions asked, but that's not a possibility for what they're doing. But if you like McCarthy the most

for the Vikings, I guess I can't blame you because maybe there is an argument that if they were to draft McCarthy, that it's possible he could fit better with Kevin O'Connell. I mean, O'Connell needs, I think, somebody who's really going to communicate with him well, that that's very important. And one thing I know about Kirk Cousins is that Kirk Cousins is a great talker. So sorry, I'm blocking the light here. Every time I go to reach for the computer, I'll do it with my left hand. That Kirk Cousins would be able to communicate really effectively with Kevin O'Connell. And I think he needs somebody that is also going to be able to do the same, communicate back, that he wants to be able to talk to his guy on a daily basis in the office, break his stuff down

every Saturday before the game when they go over that final game plan, he wants to be able to say, what are you comfortable with? What are you uncomfortable with? Tell me how I can help you and whatever. And if there's somebody who can't do that effectively, then I think it's not going to be a great work with O'Connell. Now, another thing I didn't put it up on the screen that O'Connell mentioned that I should have brought up, this is a mistake of mine, is the way that these things are going to play out with his private meetings. So this was a question asked, and I said, I don't really know because I don't think I've ever asked before, and I certainly haven't been there. But he did go into some detail today about it, where he said that when it comes

to the private meetings, he's going to go out, spend a couple hours with the guy, or they're going to come to TCO Performance Center. He's going to spend a couple hours with the guy that he will go over their film and ask them the questions that he wants to ask about their tape. And so take me through these plays. What were you thinking here? What are you taught to do here? For some negative plays, probably some positive plays. Also one thing he's looking for that I thought was really interesting was recall and how well the quarterback remembered mentally, like this was my read. This was my offense that it's a huge deal to be able to have a memory. And this was sort of the photographic Peyton Manning memory thing that would come up from times to be able to see things on the field and know it in your mind instantly because things

move fast there. And you got to hear a play, yell it out to your teammates and know everybody's assignment, not just, not just yours, but everybody's assignment at once. So he's going to take them through things like that, take them out on the field, run them through some plays, coach them up. I mean, really, if you saw any of the Gruden camp, it sounded exactly like the Gruden camp. So I think that was honestly very realistic. And I wish we still had it. I really wish that John Gruden had not sent very bad emails and gotten fired. But, you know, I really enjoy those shows still because it was a great intel into what that was like. And it's exactly the way that it was described by Kevin O'Connell today.

So he's going to do that. He also told us to not look into at all what happened in those pro days. So don't pay attention to whose pro day they went to, whose pro day they didn't go into. And I already had that sense anyway, because if you're going to have private meetings, then why do you go and watch a scripted thing that you have no control over? Now, if a team could script it, well, sure, then Kevin O'Connell would be interested. And maybe you want to see how the guy throws and what he's working on or how he's dropping back or whatever, how he's interacting with his teammates. But if you don't go see JJ McCarthy throw and you're going to get a couple hours with

him, well, you're going to worry about your couple of hours with him a lot more. So I agree with what Kevin O'Connell was saying there that we shouldn't try to chase around. Hey, he's not there. He's there. I mean, of course we, you know, we do some of that stuff just for something to do. Um, but you know, that's all it really is. It's just something to do. Uh, I don't think it makes any real difference. Uh, let's see. Dan says, I'm worried about an arms race. If the Raiders and Broncos get another first, they can say here's two first this year and we'll, uh, one for next year, uh, will be better than Minnesota. Yeah. I mean, I think like the arms race, the Vikings at this moment can do pretty well in now, can they go completely insane and throw in a bunch of second round picks?

No, because they don't have a third from this year and they also, um, you know, don't have that second now from 2022. So they can't throw in certain picks that they don't have, but a one this year, another one this year, it carries more weight than a one from next year. And that's an important point that, uh, you know, they want it right now. They don't want to wait for it. And also they know where it is. They know it's number 23. They don't, you know, you're not going to know where it's going to be next year. Although 23 is pretty far back in the first, it would be pretty shocking if the Vikings, um, you know, we're drafting higher than that, but you are lower than that. I mean, but you get the point, you know, where it's going to be, you know, the exact value of it, and you get to get started on it today. So if you're the

new England Patriots and you are looking to rebuild under your new coach as fast as possible, you want to start that right here, right now. And if Denver is coming to you, well, okay, they might be able to try to trade up for another pick, but can you trade up for higher than 23? That's hard to do because a lot of the teams that are in the top 15, they need those picks pretty desperately. There is time though. I'm not dismissing what you're saying because there is time for maneuvering when it comes to this with a lot of lead up to the draft. And, um, you know, I, that, that's, that does open the door for the possibility, but I think what the

Vikings are going to have in the same way is, um, they're going to have a line in the sand that they draw for their draft capital as well, where it's going to be like, all right, this much draft capital is what we're willing to move up. And if somebody else tops that, then God bless them. And that's, you know, it is the only way to operate because sometimes this thing can be a little bit, I think for some people frustrating where it's like, okay, well, they keep drawing lines in the sand and they're not willing to go over them. And here's an example of where it was a little frustrating last year was Dalton Reisner. And they were struggling so

much with the interior offensive line. And it was like, can you just pay the guy and get him here and so forth. Uh, so, you know, I, I just like, I think, um, that there are times where you need to push your line to cross, but also if you're always doing that, if you're often doing that, then, uh, then you end up with giving up way too much and hurting yourself in the future. So each quarterback is going to have like their price that they're worth and what it's going to take around them. So for example, you might look at Drake may as like, Hey, like this guy is going to be somebody who can take you to the next level. Even if you're not perfect in other areas, whereas you might look at JJ McCarthy and say, or Bo Nix and say, all right, you've got to build a massive a team. You've just got to be amazing in order to have a chance to actually win.

If you're going to have this guy as your quarterback. So how they approach things may be also malleable depending on which guy we're talking about, because how much that player's potential is to be able to overcome shortcomings of your roster will be different. This from a purple pain says McCarthy has too many question marks based on how divided everyone is over him. And you only trade up for that kind of draft capital for sure things. Well, I think you guys know what I'm going to say about that,

which is that this is, this is what happens. I am so strongly right-handed that if I try to do anything with my left hand, it's a total disaster. So sorry that I was just throwing up random comments onto the screen. But as far as like the sure things, there's just not sure things. Here's the way that I would look at this is the ceiling of the player that you're drafting. Is it worth it for a player whose ceiling is being like one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL? And I think for at least my opinion is that with Jane Daniels, Drake May and Caleb Williams, that the ceiling is for them to be a top five quarterback in the NFL, that if they're competing with the best of the best, you don't feel like you're way behind.

So for example, when Eli Manning, who I like to use as a comp for Drake May, when Eli Manning is going to green Bay to play against Brett Favre or Aaron Rogers in the playoffs, do you feel like we have no chance? No, of course you feel like we have no chance no of course you feel like you have a chance because you have a great quarterback he's not quite as good on their level but he is good enough in the right circumstances to give you a chance to beat the best in the world as all instead of always feeling like wow our defense better be incredible or wow we're like we'd have no chance and use those guys, but he also beat Tom Brady in two super bowls as well. They, the New York giants, as long as they had Eli Manning always felt like they had a chance to win any game against any

quarterback. And that's what you're really looking for. And that's why I look at Drake may as being someone who has the upside of being that not is he guaranteed to be it, but the upside and the same goes for Jaden Daniels. The upside of Jaden Daniels is that he goes into any game with a chance to change it with his legs, change it with his deep ball. He also does a great job at not turning the ball over, which is going to be super valuable. So he has that potential with McCarthy. That's where I look at hold, hold the mic with my left hand. Well, see, that's the thing is that's what I'm saying about being left-hand, like even holding the mic with my left hand, then I block my face because the light is over here. It's this is, look, this is, this is a live broadcast from a hotel room. It's always

going to be a little more wonky than at the home studio. So look, I mean, if you have someone of the caliber of Eli Manning, who could elevate your team and give you a chance to win in any game, like that's what you're looking for. Right. And then of course, above anything like that and above, but that's the ceiling for some quarterbacks. I don't know if that's the ceiling for JJ McCarthy. It might be, but it doesn't seem like that and above, but that's the ceiling for some quarterbacks. I don't know if that's the ceiling for JJ McCarthy. It might be, but it doesn't seem like that. At least as of this

moment, it doesn't seem like that. So if you're drafting McCarthy, then I think that the margin for error is a little less and there's more of a likelihood as far as his ceiling goes that you're going into it in more of an Alex Smithy type of way. And that is not a disrespect to him because Alex Smith won a ton of games, but I mean, he was like 90 something and 60 something for his career. He, you know, scored 40 points at a playoff game that he lost because they gave up a huge amount of points. He was one drive away from the Superbowl. So like that, but that type of quarterback never puts the team on his back and takes him to another level. And I haven't seen that from McCarthy. It doesn't mean it's impossible, but just from the tools that we see, uh, and the arm talent that we see, it feels

more likely that, um, you know, McCarthy is kind of in that, in that ballpark where you need the team around him to have success. Um, so that's, that's my only point about how much you're trading up. It's not whether I think that they could actually win. It's just that I think that when you're trading up, you factor those things. That's what that whole thing was kind of getting around to. Uh, let's see. Uh, Jen's, uh, says, uh, how important is it for a rookie quarterback to sit? In my opinion, it is entirely based on that quarterback, how important it was for that particular quarterback. So let's say, and this is why I like Sam Darnold so much. And I've seen criticism for Sam Darnold and the Vikings. And I just, I don't understand it at all.

Like $10 million, the top quarterback makes $55 million per year. So you're paying 20% of a starting quarterback for someone who sets a really nice bar for the rookie. So let's say that you trade up and you pick JJ McCarthy and you're in training camp and you've got Sam Darnold versus JJ McCarthy in training camp. And they're going back and forth every day and we're reporting on it every day and all that sort of stuff. And McCarthy just plays better than Sam Darnold. And he looks like he's locked in. He's got the offense figured out and you know what, there's going to be bumps along the road, but all right, let's go. And, uh, when it comes to,

um, you know, if Darnold wins the job, that doesn't mean McCarthy is a bust. If if Darnold beats him out because Darnold is a NFL quarterback and has been around much longer. And so, you know, if if he ends up winning that job, then you sit McCarthy and you develop him and you wait until he's ready to be better than Sam Darnold, because it's a good bar. You should be able to reach over the bar of Sam Darnold. He is a, I think an NFL backup, a quality NFL backup. He had won games in Carolina under some pretty bad circumstances. Eight out of 17 games there is, you know, decent, I guess, considering how bad Carolina was and four out of his last six at the end of his time there in Carolina looks pretty good in San Francisco. Like that's a guy who, and watching

back a bunch of his games, that's a guy who can line up under center, get everybody lined up, throw the ball on time for most of the time, and then have like the worst interception you've ever seen. And that's the reason that he's not a starting quarterback, but he's going to be a professional. So you need somebody like that to put in a quarterback competition training camp to give you a good idea of where your rookie sits. And if he's way behind and he needs to sit a year, then, then, then sit a year. And if he doesn't, then you just play them right away. So it's really that you have set yourself up here. If you're the Vikings to pick your path as seems to be their entire strategy with everything. It's like, if this happens, then we do that. And one of the words that they use is intentionality, which sounds like such a

business term that kind of like, it's not my thing, but when they do stuff, it doesn't feel haphazard. And I remember, and I like, look, there was a difference between early Spielman and later Spielman, but I just remember feeling like haphazard was the way to describe the second half of Rick Spielman. It less intentional and more just taking shots at stuff. Maybe this defensive tackle that we pay will be the difference. Maybe the, this left guard who's never been a starter before. Maybe this kicker slash punter, maybe drafting a long snapper, like a lot, you know, like there was just a lot of stuff that didn't

seem like it had a really great process behind it. And I think that this has a great process behind it, which is to bring in Sam Darnold. So he can let you know if your quarterback is ready or if he needs to sit. And if he needs to sit there, that's fine. Um, so, you know, it's, it's kind of funny. First of all, I just look, if you think that the Vikings drafting the next Eli Manning wouldn't be successful, I just, I don't know what to tell you because that would be a massive success if the Vikings were able to draft a player of that type of caliber. And I don't know how it wouldn't be. I mean, that's a, a 10 year franchise quarterback who every year they started the season, they went into it believing that they could win the super bowl and they did several times. So yeah, man, if that's the, if that's a downside for you, then I don't

know what to tell you. Uh, but when you talk about what guys could be, you can't say there'll be Peyton Manning unless it's Andrew Luck caliber prospect. And even that's too high to set the bar. That's like saying a court or a basketball player will be LeBron. Like no one's, you can't say someone's going to be LeBron. Like, let's not be totally ridiculous when we talk about our comparisons of what someone can be and what their upside is. But what I'm talking about is when you evaluate the ceiling for a quarterback, you say this quarterback of this ceiling uh by the way i mean the person in the comments talking about how the defense carried eli manning i mean you just what are you 12 i mean look look that's you you just can't be an adult and have watched eli manning

play in those playoffs at least google it before you jump in eli is is one of the the one of the ones that just i go nuts when people criticize. Probably Troy Aikman's another one. It's like for the olds, I guess, when you look up Troy Aikman's quarterback rating from the nineties or something, and then tell me, yeah, here comes the passer rating. Look, you got to try to understand how football works, even just a little, when we talk about Eli Manning. Because first of all, the league changed massively when it came to quarterback rating in the middle of Eli Manning's career. So at the beginning of his career, defenses were more difficult to play against. So if you had a

quarterback rating of 90, that means you were probably 10 to 15 points above average. It's not like it works now where everybody throws short passes and they jack up their quarterback ratings. And it doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot. I mean, this back then it was just different. That's why it was more of a running league at that time. And then, you know, Eli Manning has a lot of good years where in quarterback rating, he's in the top 10 where he's leading top 10 offenses consistently. And then when he got his opportunity with good teams, he went to Dallas, he went to Green Bay and he played spectacularly well in the postseason and then good enough in two Super Bowls to beat Tom Brady.

So look, I mean, if you're down on that comparison, I just wish you were older and watched more football 20 years ago. And I'm sorry that I'm old. But the Eli Manning thing, the reason I like it as a comparison for Drake May, Eli Manning was very aggressive at throwing the ball down the field, which caused more interceptions at times, but also caused a higher end and more success at times as well, which I could also see from Drake may, um, no, you know, it's not disagreement. It's, uh, ignorance, I guess is the problem, but you know, that is what it is. Uh, we're all about conversation here,

but if we're going to say things that are factually incorrect, then I'm going to correct them. So anyway, that's all, I don't need to get into some sort of silly, uh, debate about that. Uh, that's, you know, the same thing as the Teddy Bridgewater and, you know, Christian ponder sort of category of just, you know, like it's, it's not my fault, I can't help you if we're just not even gonna work with the same set of facts. The whole point is that Eli Manning can lead a team to a Super Bowl

when he's playing at his absolute best. And he very well may end up in the Hall of Fame at some point. And if the Vikings can draft a quarterback that can go into the playoffs and have a chance to make big time throws the way that Eli Manning did in the playoffs to win them the Superbowls, uh, then that's what you're looking for. Like that's the highest end of a quarterback that you're looking

for. And I'm not sure that I see that high of an end with other quarterbacks in this draft outside of Drake May, Jane Daniels, and Caleb Williams. That's really the whole point. And I see, I see all the nonsense, other arguments about how many other playoff games and he went, how, who cares how many playoff games that he went other than all the ones where he was amazing and won the super bowl, just silliness, just silliness. So anyway, now that we've gotten to the silly portion of the podcast, I think I'm going to go because, you know, whatever. But there's your update from everything that has happened so far in the owners meetings.

I do have to run because they're in his event over at the Ritz Carlton with the NFL owners, coaches and all those involved. So I'm going to head out to that and, uh, we will talk again, presumably tomorrow night, very similar. I will try to light this a little better. Um, as the sun goes down, I'll maybe put that in consideration for next time. And, uh, hopefully this worked out for, uh, you guys to watch this and, uh, try to grab a few guests for tomorrow's show as well. But no, this is the travel setup. So my better camera is at home in the studio, but that doesn't go on the road because that costs too much money to go on the road. So this is the stick it on top of the laptop computer type of setup.

So hopefully it worked out well for everybody and you enjoyed the show. I think I had the same idea as you guys probably had, which was that there was already a trade setup and in the works and they were ready to make a move. It was like, make, get 23 and then right up to the top. And it now appears that they got 23 to give themselves a chance to get to the top, that it was not set in stone and that they weren't 100% sure it was going to be able to happen. But they've got a shot at it. And in the worst case scenario, that all they did was give up the 2025 second and we'll be able to get somebody who can play defense and make a difference on the defensive side. So that is interesting. And yeah, you know, we'll see how that ends up, ends up playing out is, did it turn out to be

the right move to just take that swing to get 23, to give them the quote flexibility, rather than maybe not doing it. And if they don't end up getting up to the top, so that's something we'll kind of be evaluating, but that is now what I believe is that they did it just to give themselves a chance. So anyway you're right, Mike, that it is a little strange that they did that.

Houston did the trade, but I think gives the Vikings a chance. What they've done is they've given themselves a chance and that does take two to tango. So the other teams, new England, you got to talk new England out of it. Maybe,

maybe Casey should try playing our game that we play on the show, which talked me into it. So anyway, all right. Thanks everybody for your time. And, uh, we will see you all tomorrow from the owner's meetings in Orlando football.