Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Live from the owner's meetings: Trades are in the air for Vikings

Episode Date: March 25, 2024

Live from Orlando at the Owner's Meetings Matthew Coller and Dane Mizutani of the Pioneer Press break down a beat reporter session with Kevin O'Connell and whether we're getting smoke screened or if the Vikings would be comfortable sticking at 11 and 23. How much are they willing to pay? Plus what Sean Payton and Jarrod Mayo said about trades. https://surfshark.deals/PURPLEINSIDER Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider from the Ritz-Carlton in Orlando here at the owner's meetings. And if you're watching on video, this background looks completely fake, but I promise you it is real. Outside of maybe the coolest place I've ever been in my entire life, Matthew Collar, Dane Mizutani from the Pioneer Press, we have just wrapped up sitting exactly where we are right now, chatting for about 20 minutes with kevin

o'connell in a private session with the beat reporters he's also going to talk at breakfast tomorrow morning so we'll have another reaction to that as well and everything that was said here but thankfully to vikings public relations we got a chance to sit down with kevin o'connell and chat on the record about the vikings quarterback. I don't know that anything else came up other than Justin Jefferson, which we'll get to, but I want to ask you this, Dane, to start right out. What is your biggest takeaway from the vibe of Kevin O'Connell knowing that the Vikings are in this quarterback mix? They're at the center of all the insiderers, all the rumors, everything going on. I mean, they are one of the most interesting teams here in Orlando that everybody seems to want to talk

to and talk about. And we had a chance to sit down with O'Connell. So what was your feeling coming away from that conversation? I think right now, as we sit here, and like you said, this incredible background backdrop. I'm thinking about where we were two and a half weeks ago or two weeks ago when we were in TCO Performance Center and Kevin O'Connell looked like he had just seen a ghost because Kirk Cousins was no longer his quarterback and if you take that reaction you know how he kind of looked in that moment back in Minnesota to how he felt today, I think he's excited. And I think he's excited about the idea of, yes, I don't think he's lying. I think he thinks Sam Darnold has good football ahead of him.

But I think what really excites him is the idea of a quarterback in this draft. And I think there has been a shift almost from the mourning period of losing Kirk Cousins who he'd put so much time and so much effort built such a good relationship with and then to just lose it in free agency and two weeks of kind of mourning I think he's excited about where this thing could go and just almost like the fan base as a whole feels like there's just endless options now I kind of feel like he feels like there's endless options now and obviously there's there is pressure attached to that because he is the guy and Quasey who is going to draft this quarterback if they end up

taking one at 11 or 23 or moving up higher in the draft but I think that pressure is also comes with a lot of excitement where this thing could go. I think if he was being honest with himself, if we gave him some truth serum, this thing had plateaued. We could see it. I think if he takes a step back, he can realize it probably plateaued with Kirk. And now the opportunities are endless. So that's kind of the vibe I got today. It's just how much different it felt talking to the head coach of the Vikings when two weeks have passed since he lost his franchise quarterback to potentially setting himself up to draft the next one. One thing that I would note is that O'Connell said as far as his attendance when it comes to pro days and things like that, he said, do not look into that. And I agree with him that, you know, pro days, nobody knows better than O'Connell are well organized workouts by quarterback gurus and so forth.

And how much value do you get versus bringing these players into your actual facility or going to visit them wherever they are and working with them for several hours in a room going through teaching them things taking them out on a football field like that's very very different from a well-scripted pro day that you probably don't get a lot from and i think for quarterbacks maybe it's even antiquated that that exists and even there are hard things to figure out from the combine where they do a presentation and they're throwing certain routes and so forth. But it's really these Kevin O'Connell sit downs that are going to be the thing that matters the most. And so he didn't, he wasn't at Bo Nix or whatever, but it wasn't at JJ McCarthy, but that doesn't mean anything.

Now, one thing I would say is also, they were presenting this idea of being okay with whatever happens. And I believe he used the word complicit, like another team has to help you and teams don't like to help you unless you give them enough incentive to help you, and that's clear. But the concept of, hey, if it doesn't work out to be able to trade up, if somebody else trades up instead of us that we're going to be okay with that was what he was exuding the question i have is do you

believe him do you believe that when he says hey it's a deep quarterback class and if you know we have to do that we're going to be okay and and so forth. Which, look, they'll have no other option if they can't trade up. But do you believe that they're okay with path A, B, C, or D? Or there is a blatant, clear-cut, Kevin O'Connell sounds like he wants this and nothing else, but he'll settle if he has to. I think that's kind of a two-fold answer. Because I think in a perfect world for Kevin O'Connell,

they'll trade up and get the franchise quarterback. I think there are quarterbacks that are special and there are quarterbacks that are just kind of can elevate a team but can't take you over the hump. I think there are quarterbacks like that in this draft. I think Kevin O'Connell feels like there are quarterbacks like that in this draft, but I'm pretty sure to get that quarterback, you're going to have to move up. So I think in a perfect world for him, the Vikings would package 11, 23, whatever else it takes to get up there.

But that's back to your point and back to his point, which he used the word complicit five, six times today. You can't just say, well, we want Drake May. Because what if the Patriots want Drake May? They can't just give you three if they want to use three to take Drake May. So that's why I think it's twofold, because I think in a perfect world for him, yes, he wants to move up. He wants to get the quarterback. I don't know if it's Drake May, but it sure feels like it's Drake May. But if he can't, I don't think he's going to be here sitting on his hands crying,

thinking we just missed out on a potential to do something special because you have to have contingencies. And you can fall in love with a guy, but when you're at 11 and you're not at two or three and you're going to have to do some maneuvering you have to be okay if it doesn't fall your way so I think he wants to if it's possible and I think there's a strong want to do that but I think he would be okay if they have to take a quarterback later if they have to settle is probably the wrong word because you don't want to use that but for lack of a better word settle on on a guy that they didn't want as much as a guy who they can get in potentially the top three and i think that you know when we look at having number

23 that gives them a leg up on everybody else and i wanted to mention this as well because there are other coaches talking with their medias and sean payton called it what realistic someone asked if it was realistic if they would be a team that would trade up and he said yes it's realistic and we all know this that the denver broncos are a team that is unlikely to roll with jared stidham there was a report out there that they would be okay with that i don't believe it i don't think that they'd be okay with jared stidham. There was a report out there that they would be okay with that. I don't believe it. I don't think that they'd be okay with Jared Stidham since no one else has ever been before, but you have to kind of say that just in case. But the fact that he was willing to say, yeah, it's realistic, they're clearly in the race. The team that we are not as sure about is maybe the Raiders,

but I also think that they're in this race as well to move up the New York Giants are a very realistic possibility to move up so there's a lot of competition and what the 23rd pick gave and this is where you can kind of tell when you hear outside analysts talk about this like how locked into this are you really because the 23rd pick gives you extra power that other teams don't have. And that is the first round pick right now. And even if the draft chart says that the Giants second round pick and whatever they can add might be worth the same, it's not as saying two first round picks because it gives you a fifth year option, which is an important thing. Also, if the Vikings were to have to draft a quarterback at 23, it gives them the fifth year option which is an important thing also if the vikings were to have to draft a quarterback at 23 it gives them the fifth year option for that so it gives them more flexibility

more power to be able to do this but it's very obvious that the teams at three well and we'll talk about three as well teams at three and four are saying give us your best shot and all these other teams are putting together these packages to move up and it seems like it is a four horse race and then there are two other horses that you'd have to settle for uh if you decided to go for it who are good prospects but not on the same level as the others so those developments here and having like gerard Mayo say that there's they're open to potentially trading number three I think tells me that this is going to happen for somebody this big move up we just don't know if it's going to be the Vikings or not I don't think we know that but I think when we circle back to

your point about having 23 if it's going to be someone it's probably going to be the Vikings because who who can beat their offer right if you're saying it's going to be someone, it's probably going to be the Vikings because who can beat their offer, right? If you're saying it's going to take one first-round pick this year, one first-round pick next year, and potentially another first-round pick down the road, well, the Vikings can beat every single team's offer by just saying, we'll give you one first-round pick this year and another first-round pick this year. And to your point about the boards, like the trade charts, they're not an exact science, right? They're assigning value to what an asset feels like

kind of on like a spreadsheet. But when you give these guys the opportunity to have two first-round picks this year, I think that outweighs just the idea of having three first-round picks total. If two of those are in the current year, I think that's just going to elevate the Vikings kind of above the rest of their competition. So it is a race, but I think the Vikings are kind of in pole position just with where this thing kind of stands after the big move to acquire 23 last week.

My apologies if it's a little on the windy side, because it is windy in Orlando. We're near an ocean. Crazy. It is crazy. And the wind is like 80 degrees, so that feels actually quite nice. Now, we also asked O'Connell if Justin Jefferson's opinion matters here. And now, of course, he's not going to say oh yeah actually justin quit

and he he wanted kirk so much that he just walked away but he did say that he's been in constant communication with jefferson and that he he didn't phrase it as if he has a say in this because of course he doesn't have a say in this that's not what you would do with any player they're not scouts they're not personnel they are players and that's what they're supposed to do but i think that one of the keys and one of the superpowers that kevin o'connell has is that he always seems to know how to effectively communicate with his players and keep someone like justin jefferson in the loop and i think what he wanted to do was confirm to us that it's more myth than truth that jefferson wouldn't sign an extension and those sorts of things if he didn't like whatever they were doing

a quarterback and i think jefferson's also smart enough to figure out that he's going to be here for a long time and play a big role in whatever it is that they do at that quarterback position and whatever it is the success of that quarterback will be so tied to Justin Jefferson. And that was something that Kevin O'Connell said pretty clearly to us is that we can give this quarterback. And I think it was also smart for him. He didn't really shy away from this.

He's aware that they need a quarterback and so forth. But that's one of the things that they can give is the situation that you drop into with a former quarterback as your coach and that he can lean into that and really connect with that person. And they are aware of that. So I think that has to factor in even to who they draft and how much they're willing to spend. That's what I'm tying this into is how much they're willing to spend

to be able to move up. Also has to be how much can we do to pump up any quarterback that we draft. Totally. The infrastructure the Vikings have in place is greater than every other infrastructure, I would argue. Certainly in the top three. And even the trades, you know, the teams you're in the race with. The Denver Broncos. The Viking situation is vastly better.

The Las Vegas Raiders, they have Devontae Adams, but Devontae Adams is kind of in the decline of his career. Justin Jefferson is still in the ascension of his career. You know, maybe the New York Giants want to get in there. My point being, the Vikings are going to be kind of the destination if you could just tell any of these quarterbacks, hey, you can pick where you play next year. I think every single one of them would say, I want to play for the Vikings. I want to play for a team that has Justin Jefferson as their number one receiver.

I want to play for a coach who is invested in my growth and in my process and who's going to be around for the long haul. I think that is an important distinction to your point that, yeah, maybe it's a high price to pay, but this guy is going to be coming into an incredible situation to succeed. And that's such a big part of this as well. So how much do you think that is going to take? And this isn't going to be based on any new information from O'Connell, but we could try to read his face when we're talking about how bought in he is to the idea of moving up and so forth.

We can try to get a sense for how important that is to them. Do you think that they're going to have to give up that additional first round pick in 2025 if they want to move up because i am just not fully believing that o'connell is going to be totally fine with hey you know whatever quarterback shows up at 11 whatever quarterbacks at 23 no biggie guys like i think that they're going to have a pretty clear preference. And if they don't get McCarthy, if they don't get May, then they will, like, not melt as a franchise or whatever, and he's going to have to take what he gets. But I do think that O'Connell is going to want them to go one step farther than maybe Kweisi Adafo-Mensah is going to want to go because, you know, yeah, you have to draw a line in the sand,

but that line gets pushed so much farther when you're talking about trying to draft a quarterback. Yeah, and I just think when you, to answer your question, yes, I think it's going to cost the extra first-round pick. And that's why I brought up the charts earlier. The charts say two first, you know, 11 and 23 can get you up to four. And like, maybe. But all the other team has to say is like, well, screw the charts.

Denver's willing to offer me two first round picks. I need another. So do I think that it's going to cost them the 2025 first round pick if they want to move up? Yes, I do. Because I think it's just supply and demand it's what's the asset that you want and how much are you willing to pay for it and if there's other teams willing to pay for that asset that you want then yes you're gonna have to up your ante and then the and that's why i think the vikings have more spending power than other teams

is because they have 11 and 23 the point here is are they willing to use that spending power that they have and go the extra mile? I think yes. I think if they fall in love with the guy, they can tell us everything. They can try to keep their cards close to their vest. I think this is such a pivotal offseason. This is a draft class of quarterbacks. They have been scouting for two to three years.

And I just find it really hard to believe if the price to get to three, and I'll say three because the Patriots today, Gerard Mayo talked and said, a good way to build a team is to acquire draft picks. And yes, that's true. And you know who has more than a lot of teams? The Vikings. draft picks and yes that's true and you know who has more than a lot of teams the vikings so i think they fall in love with the guy and the cost to get up to three is the 2025 first round pick it might sound like a lot small price to pay if you get it right

hey us cellular customers i've got good news so don't hit that skip forward button just yet i'm talking about their special customer event us days what's us days it means exclusive offers just for their customers just to say thanks like up to twelve hundred dollars to upgrade to any new phone no i didn't misread that. That's up to $1,200 off. They must really like you all. Us Days at U.S. Cellular exclusive offers just for you, just to say thanks. Right now, U.S. Cellular customers get up to $1,200 to upgrade to any new phone. Terms apply. That's certainly the case. And what Kevin'connell has over some of these other teams is that the head coach is on the offensive side and they won't be changing offensive coordinators and things like that which means that he knows he could be andy reed if this works yeah and so if you think someone

can be your homes or whatever then i mean even you look at Josh Allen in Buffalo where Brian Dabo left. Allen made him into a star, and then he got his offensive coordinator to head coach jump, and that's what Kevin O'Connell can give that others can't. And he knows that if he gets that guy, he gets to be here for five to ten years and win a lot of football games and everything else. If you get the elite guy, if you get the good guy years and win a lot of football games everything else if you get the elite guy if you get the good guy it takes a lot more work it takes a lot more team building it takes a lot fewer weaknesses and you know the scheme has to be on point there can't be

trick plays that turn into uh fumbles and things like that like the but but if you even get good then there's a lot that you can do around those players in the situation that they're in there is the argument for 11 and 23 and staying there because you can get a first round defensive tackle a first round i mean i think that even offensive line could be in play for a guard or something if that's what he's desperately desperately after uh or you know a cornerback which i i think would be really important to brian flores i just don't really buy that that is option even number three for them i think number one is move up to number three and number two is to move up to number four and then after that well i guess it is option number three it'd be the clear cut by far and away option number three

at least this is my feeling as of right now maybe it'll change um that that's what they're going to have to do so uh i wanted to also talk about just where the roster stands in general uh the left guard position is sort of up in the air and on the defensive side and we didn't get too deep into that with kevin o'connell uh but it it does sound like this year it was hard to fight in the guard market and that that's something that we might end up having some sort of competition with you know blake brandle and so forth but where where do you think they are just in overall team strength and what else they have to do because obviously all their lasers are set to this quarterback situation yeah i guess i can't really see past the quarterback and that's like to your point earlier about it being option three to just stay at 11 and take

best player available and stay at 23 and take best player available i think part of kevin o'connell's probably like well we gave brian flores a lot of things in free agency. I got him two edge rushers, you know, a linebacker. It's time for me now. So I think the quarterback is such a big, big part of this that it's hard to kind of think elsewhere on the roster. But if you kind of zone in and look at some of the places that I still think they could build, yeah, I think you have to look at interior of the line because that's such an important thing that I think maybe goes a little underrated or unnoticed by just almost a casual fan. You have two booking tackles, you're great.

Not necessarily because interior pressure can screw up any quarterback quarterback and it can certainly screw up certain quarterbacks so take with that what you will but i i really think that blake brandle's probably in the pole position to be the starting left guard because he's there um i think that is an area that whether it be through the draft and then just hoping or seeing how a rookie would perform in OTAs, training camps, minicamp, that's an area that I think they can improve on. And I still look at the interior of the defensive line too. Basically the interiors of both trenches. I think you can grow. But, yeah, if Blake Brandl earns the starting job at left guard, I think it's fine.

I don't think you feel great about that. But I think that's kind of where they're at right now. Sorry, I'm going to circle back here to the quarterbacks. Actually, I'm not sorry because that's what we're doing. That's all we want to talk about. But I want to start a bit on the show called, like, smokescreen or nah. Like, is this a smokescreen or is this not a smokescreen? So when we were talking to O'Connell, we're asking about, you know,

that whole thing of can you shape your offense to a quarterback, which comes up all the time. And I kind of roll my eyes a little because I think whoever you draft, you're going to work with them on whatever it is their strengths are. Right? Whoever you draft, you're going to work with them on whatever it is their strengths are. But he kind of devolved into this take about running quarterbacks that I can't decide whether it's a smokescreen or not. Does he really actually love Jaden Daniels? Or was he saying, and what he said exactly was more or less, like you got to be careful with that kind of player because it's always going to be a pass first league so you got to be sure that the guy's

timing accuracy can run the offense is going to be a number one because you can't just run as justin fields shows us nobody in the league seems to think that you can just be a runner and actually win uh so that's why he gets traded for a six round draft pick but daniels had really great passing numbers so that that should also be made clear as well but when he went on the kind of um off ramp that was not asked about but maybe he felt us implying it um did you feel like that was him sort of trying to throw us off the scent a little bit of jayden daniels or was he being like i mean just showing us a big bright light on drake may's face i've always kind of thought it's drake may and that one kind of just it only illuminated more for drake may i think part of

why you take that off ramp if you're him is to say and then we're talking in Kevin O'Connell now is to say I'm capable of doing it because people don't think I can't um because I think and I think me and you have talked about this that Josh Dobbs the fact that they brought him in and we went through the bye week and nothing changed that was licensed for everyone to be like, Kevin O'Connell can't change. He's stubborn. And I think you brought it up that like Nick Mullins, if Kirk goes down, Nick Mullins is healthy, doesn't have the back injury and just plays. Everyone's just thinking like, well, Nick Mullins isn't that good, but the offense looks the same. And no one's questioning, can Kevin O'Connell be malleable?

I'm not questioning, can Kevin O'Connell be malleable. I'm not questioning can Kevin O'Connell be malleable. I'm guilty of that too. I think he takes that off ramp to basically say, guys, I can do it if I have to, but I don't think he wants to. I think he wants a quarterback that will take his five-step drop, take his seven-step drop, put his foot in the ground, and throw the ball 25 yards down the field into the window that will be schemed open.

I think that's the quarterback he's always going to want. I think he's going to want a quarterback with accuracy. You hear him all the time talk about accuracy and how that's such an important part of a quarterback play. Precision, ability to process, like all those things scream a certain type of quarterback, one that is willing to hang in the pocket and not necessarily rely on athleticism to make plays. I think if there was a world where that was what he was presented, I think Kevin O'Connell could shapeshift. I think if he's getting to pick his guy, it's going to be a certain guy. Yeah, I think so too, that when it comes to someone like Jaden Daniels,

where he was really good was throwing down the field. But one of the things that i'm a little hesitant on going overboard with that and i know this is a drake may thing too but may throws the intermediate passes exceptionally well like has uh you know i think the ability to operate the whole thing as opposed to maybe the best trait is just those deep bombs to great wide receivers which we kind of saw from jayden daniels and i don't mean to insult him we're talking about top top level quarterbacks who we'd all be happy with if they drafted i just mean that the nuance between them is what makes

the discussion so interesting and even for the vikings as they go to meet with all these guys and they're going to have to deal with that as well but there are quarterbacks in the league who threw 10 or less of their passes 20 yards in the air and so if your biggest thing is that you throw bombs 30 40 yards down the field that is harder to work with in a rhythm and timing offense that's mostly going to be throwing intermediate stuff where i thought drake may really shined in his touch on the football layering the ball you yeah throwing over linebackers finding windows anticipation was such a big thing for drake may that you could see o'connell

watching that and going yes this is the thing and the other thing is too that if they did start paying attention to the draft class as quacey said at the combine for years before uh well then they would have seen the best of Drake May when he had a little better team around him, when maybe he wasn't trying too hard, I thought, at times. Last year, going back and watching him, I thought he was trying to be, him and Caleb Williams both, they felt the pressure of being the potential top draft pick, I thought.

Now, where it gets really interesting is kind of McCarthy. And like, all right, so you're're gonna have to adjust your plan for mccarthy more likely than not to potentially sit that guy and this is i think really really important that they are very clear about their plan from day one in a quarterback competition scenario in training camp and that the owners don't step in and say, hey, you better play your guy if Darnold is a better quarterback or if the owners don't step in. And I asked Kevin specifically about alignment and about them all being on the same page.

And, of course, he's saying, like, yes, we're going to be. But I think that it's more believable as they work through this process together than it would be, like, in Carolina, where you're talking about the owner wants to draft the guy the owner wants to play the guy and all those types of things that did not work out and that's where josh mccown was last year uh this is all leading me to a spot of mccarthy and sam darnold as your duo and battling out in training camp if Sam Darnold has to start and O'Connell talked a lot with us about Darnold to sort of start our press conference it wasn't where I was headed with it I just said how you feeling about your quarterback situation and he

talked about Sam Darnold for like eight minutes but I do think he actually really believes that Sam Darnold if he were to play could be effective for them for a year, which gives them much less pressure to have to feel like they have to go all in everything on this quarterback to start from day one. So if it is McCarthy and he needs to develop, they are in a position to do so. Yeah, and I think that's probably important for fans to get through their head, is that if they trade up to four or five say it's a quarter it goes three straight quarterbacks to one two three and McCarthy's there and you don't want to get jumped because you love the guy and they trade up to four or five and they don't start

him week one it does not mean he sucks right and I think there is going to be a knee-jerk reaction of like well we we trade it up to get guy, and he's not even starting week one. Quarterback's a hard position to play in the league. And I think it's okay, as we've seen in Green Bay especially, to sit a guy and let them learn the offense. Now, it's different. If Sam Darnold and J.J. McCarthy are going at it in OTAs and neck and neck in training camp, and McCarthy looks actually better, then you have to go with McCarthy.

But I think people need to get through their head. The idea of taking a quarterback high is fun. It's sexy. It's something to rally behind. It doesn't mean that guy's better than a journeyman quarterback right now who's been through the ringer. I think Sam Darnold's probably better than every quarterback that's going to get drafted in the first round of this draft just as far as knowing how the NFL functions, seeing NFL defenses, knowing how to process

when NFL defensive coordinators are trying to throw you off your scent. So yeah, if we get out of the draft next month and it's Sam Darnold, QB1, J.J. McCarthy, QB2, like that's okay. And I think people need to really understand that is like, that is a true reality. If they trade up and get Drake May, it might be Sam Darnold still. It's a hard position. and the last thing you want to do is try and microwave someone's timeline and ruin their confidence um it's a hard thing to get back if you if you really mismanage this and kevin o'connell who's a quarterback himself who probably didn't feel like he got developed in the way that he should have gotten developed

is so invested in this kid's development he He's not going to do anything, whoever they take to depredate that. Folks, if you don't know what a VPN is, you might actually need one and not even realize it. If you already know the positives, you also might not be using the right product. In either case, you want to check out Surf shark vpns keep your information safe and anyone who tries to track what you're doing online will not be able to do so if you are using surf shark ip addresses what you're searching what games you're playing or what shows you're streaming will belong to you and you only plus if you use a vpn you can virtually travel the world from the comfort of your own home, and Surfshark gives you over 100 countries to choose from. Once you change your virtual location, you'll be able to bypass censorship and restrictions, find your favorites on Netflix, Hulu, Disney, and other streaming services, and even access new libraries to watch even more content. Can't see a YouTube video because of your location?

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That is surfshark.deals slash purpleinsider. Have you picked up on that with O'Connell that he feels like he maybe wasn't given every opportunity to succeed? I think he has brought it up maybe a dozen times, which, you know, may ultimately play in whoever the next quarterback's favor because he is going to get every ounce of Kevin O'Connell's effort. But, yes, if Sam Darnold has to play, I think that they've gotten to a position where you will hear a lot of, if Darnold plays, you will hear a lot of from the outside people, from the national people who cover all 32 teams. Oh, well, this is not good. He didn't win the competition and so forth.

But if we go through the list of even quarterbacks who didn't start week one who were draft picks, Josh Allen is on that list. Patrick Mahomes is on that list. And those are the two best quarterbacks in the nfl so you know i i think that you're you're totally fine if that ends up being the case so i i think that um if they do have to do that that it'll be fine but i haven't asked you how you feel about mccarthy because when i was doing my ranking of outcomes and i ranked, you know, number one was trade everything for Drake May and number two was not having to give up that first round pick to get McCarthy. Even though I have more skepticism about McCarthy, are you like all in on, on, on the McCarthy plan? Would you be willing to trade that extra first if it's

him and not Drake May? That would be hard for me. I think where I would draw the line in the sand, and this is just me personally, where I would draw the line in the sand is there has always felt like, I mean, for the longest, it felt like a defined top two, and then Jaden Daniels played himself into that defined top three of quarterbacks in this draft. And J.J. McCarthy, over the last month and a half, two months, has seemed to play himself into that top four. But to me it still feels like a top three with a very, very defined number four.

So I think if you're getting the number four guy in this draft, I don't know if I would be willing to give that 20-25 first when I could probably just sit back at 11 or wait until 23 and take Michael Penix or Bo Nix. At the same time, I am inclined to believe that they're just, whatever they decide, they're just going to go after it with conviction. So it doesn't matter that I'm not willing to trade the 2025 pick. If they think, well, we struck out on May, but we really like McCarthy and we're not willing to strike out on him too, I think they'll give it up.

But to me, it always feels like the top three has always been Caleb Williams, Drake May, Jaden Daniels, drop off. And it was a bottom three after that it was jj mccarthy michael pennix bone nicks and now jj has kind of ascended out of that group it feels like i just don't know if there's a lot different between a jj mccarthy who i have to give up my 2025 first round pick and michael pennix so i can maybe just sit there and take at 23. what is your feeling on a timeline for this thing? Because we've been trying to ask that to people, you know,

like do you guys think maybe, you know, wink, wink, you could tell us to not go on vacation, like to be ready for this potential trade or is it going to happen on draft night? And that's in part what the owners meetings will do for them is that these people can all spend a lot of time together and they can all have conversations and look you know the patriots people are here and the arizona cardinals people are here uh but i think that it's altogether possible it might go to draft

night because one of the things that they have to be sure of is well either you love all three at the top even maybe you love daniels more than your smoke screening or whatever uh but if washington were to surprise you with who they took then are you still like good with having the three pick or if then if you you know would you trade out of it then if you're not okay you know what i'm saying or would you just if you trade up to three and they take may but you thought it was going to be daniels do you just take mccarthy at three and then say that you didn't like the other guy like there's there's a lot of different ways to handle this i do think if they can get to three they do it today four might be more of in consideration i i don't know i think four is a harder one to do and you might want to wait until you see if and draft night

that the other teams aren't offering as much and you've want to wait until you see if on draft night that the other teams aren't offering as much and you've got a better opportunity than you thought like there's a lot of moving parts but i think if it's three you just say yes and then deal with whatever comes yeah i've actually never thought of it the way that you just brought it up so that would actually freak me out even more to do it but yeah if they can get three if if the conversations at the owners meetings and go well and you know a couple drinks at the hotel bar go well and all of a sudden new england's willing to give you three tomorrow yeah i think they just do it um and figure it out later but that's a good point what if you get up to three because you love drake may and then

washington takes drake may and then are you stuck with Jaden Daniels are you overdrafting McCarthy that did you have him tagged lower um I think if if they could get up to number three they would do it today I don't think they'll be able to get up to number three anytime soon I I'm inclined to believe it's gonna it's gonna happen on draft night if it will because like I think the top three teams i mean i guess the two teams after chicago caleb williams is going one i think they're trying to figure out what they want to do and i think if you the longer you wait the more pressure there is in the pressure cooker and maybe someone is willing to give you another pick that that you weren't able to get in the beginning of April. It feels like a trade that's going to take time to kind of materialize, largely because going back to Kevin O'Connell's word, New England has to be complicit.

Washington has to be complicit. And I don't know if they can get to that level of complicity and in less they go and unturn every stone and figure out is this guy we're willing to pass on are we willing to forego the chance that a potential franchise quarterback and give him to someone else um i think that's a that's a question that they're going to continue to ask themselves again and again and again um and i think that probably stretches out until draft night well i will tell you that um they were not at all running away from the fact that they're going to draft quarterback this year and i appreciate that there was no like oh guys i mean we're we'll see sam's our quarterback like they didn't they didn't

pull any of that however i will tell you they a worst case scenario by our friend Kevin Seifert from ESPN who you have to remember has covered all the calamities he's seen it all go wrong I mean this man has stories for days we're going to do a June podcast at some point with Seifert we're just going through

every travesty of Vikings you know when he covered them from love boats to whatever other wizeneders and everything else. But his scenario is that they get locked out of all the quarterbacks and they just get completely left in the dark and they end up drafting Spencer Rattler like in the third round or something. Well, they don't even have a third round pick, but they don't even have a second round pick.

So I don't even know where they're doing that i guess the fourth round and that's their only quarterback and they say that was our guy that we wanted all along that was the one we targeted you never saw it coming um after today not that i ever thought that was real after today i thought there is a 0.0001 chance that they get locked out like every single scenario all the intel all the things they're going to do all the trades all the possibilities they will get there they will get a quarterback and i don't think there's any other way around that no i think the only way is if a team that you're not expecting at all to take a quarterback takes one and and then all of a sudden the teams you were projecting to take receiver here takes a quarterback instead uh they're

the doomsday scenario I I don't think exists because I don't think they're gonna let it exist um I think if we get to April or early May and we're sitting in OTAs and Sam Darnold is the quarterback and Michael Pratt is the other quarterback on the roster Kevin O'Connell will have pulled all of his hair out and and ran away like I there's no world where that's gonna happen I think it's it's a quarterback I think they're probably trying to be a little coy because it's it's still a negotiation right like you still have to try you know you don't want to be like yeah we want to get up to three and we'd give you anything for it um you have to play your cards close to the vest um but I think it's pretty hard to do when when you just look at how monumental this offseason are

always felt and how you layer that with both these guys talking about how this is a draft class we've been projecting out for two years two or three years I just I don't see the world where this doesn't end with them getting the guy they really want whether that's trading up and getting the the tippy top upper echelon guy or, again, wrong word, can't think of a better one, settling for the next guy in that list. I can't see a world where they don't walk away with a guy they think can be the next franchise quarterback. I think so, too. I think they're going to move heaven and earth.

It just might take a while. So until then, we're going to talk about all the scenarios of course and uh you and i i'm sure we'll get together again um before draft night to do the you know the previewing and everything else but i think uh you should not turn off notifications especially like after this week i just wouldn't be surprised if some things get hatched here in the late-night conversations at the owners' meetings. The vibe different from the combine, mostly that it's 80 degrees and it's a little more relaxed, a little more chill than all the things going on in Indianapolis. But we'll have more analysis from Orlando because I'm here, and why not?

So thanks, Dane Mizzutani of the Pioneer Press. Thank you all for listening, and keep it tuned to the channel because there will be a lot more to come. Catch you next time. Football.