Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Lots of questions following Vikings' loss to Denver -- did Josh Dobbs play well? Should they extend Hunter?

Episode Date: November 21, 2023

Matthew Coller and Manny Hill run through 10 big questions coming out of the Vikings loss to the Denver Broncos. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

everybody welcome to another episode of purple insider matthew collar here along with manny hill as we always do on monday and i have to say on a lot of mondays it's been easier to just do the show and not only be watching the game but we are grinding through and by grinding i mean my phone is set up right in front of my computer so instead of looking at manny i'm actually just watching the eagles and Chiefs. They gave us an absolute gem here. So I don't blame our audience if they have chosen to tune in a little later or listen on the podcast feed rather than watch us live. But if you are joining us live and watching the game at the same time, then you love football, and that's great.

I want to start out with you, M Manny and I have so many thoughts coming out of the game that I made a list of 10 questions and so we're going to go through those and you're going to have to answer them in 40 seconds or less or we will just go on forever and miss this game um so that's that's the way we're going to do it we're going to do a 40 second clock in just a minute but I wanted to give a little bit of an update from an earlier rant if you watch it on youtube or if you listen on the podcast feed when i was with brian murphy i kind of went crazy because i had no sleep coming back from uh denver about how kareem jackson's hit was not reviewable from the offices of new york unless it had been flagged, which to me is wild. Like

somebody pulls out a machete, cuts off someone else's arm. The ref doesn't see it. And New York's like, there's nothing we can do. And then comes back later and suspends Kareem Jackson. He didn't actually have a machete. He just hit Josh Dobbs, but he was suspended for four games. He did something in the league's eyes. So egregious that he was suspended for four games. The referees missed it. Couldn't flag it, which I guess I don't blame them because it's a fast football game. Everyone in the nation saw it. New York saw it. The command center saw it, but could not do anything. Hands tied to penalize Kareem Jackson for that play. And then the NFL acknowledges with the suspension that it should have been not only flagged, but it was egregious, maybe even enough to be an ejection for Kareem Jackson.

And the Vikings get out of it, a fumble that gives Denver the ball in their territory and results in a field goal. And Denver wins by one. Manny, most of the time when Vikings fans talk about how they were screwed by the referees, I'm like, hey, hey, everybody gets a little screwed by the refs. No, no, this this is it. This is as bad as a screw job as you have ever gotten and it is not the only reason that the Vikings lost but it's hard not to notice what the final score was versus what happened on that play so there's where we begin Kareem Jackson a four-game suspension for his hit on Josh Dobbs

yeah and it's unbelievable because you're you you're, and I saw a couple of people after the hit last night, I think I saw, uh, Louis Riddick right away just said, Kareem Jackson has got to stop doing stuff like this. Like he just came back from a suspension from previous things that he had done. And like, right away, he's like up to it again. Like he's got to stop doing this stuff and uh and you know you see something like that happen the league has gone on and on for years now about how they're trying to take things like that out of the game they're trying to you know limit those types of hits particularly on quarterbacks and then something like that happens it's so egregious

it's blatant you can see it at the moment it happens it's even more obvious when you see the replays that you know it absolutely should have been flagged and and penalized and thus nullifying the the fumble in that situation and to your point it changed it kind of it was a big difference in the game i mean mean, the Broncos got the ball, moved the ball a little bit, got further in the field goal range and was able to get three points out of it. So when you factor that in, in a game that the Broncos won by one point, could have been the difference in the game. And also, you know, if that penalty is called, who knows what the Vikings do on that drive.

They might go down and score a touchdown, and then you're talking about a completely different football game at that point. So the fact that it happened really kind of changed the course of the game. And Kareem Jackson, who has been in the league for a decade now and continues to do this type of stuff, I think that's kind of the most frustrating thing is like Kareem Jackson's like 34, 35 years old and he's still in the league because thing is like Kareem Jackson's like 34, 35 years old. And he's still in the league because he's a pretty good player. But like this stuff happening continuously is just it's just a joke.

And the fact that the league is now coming back after the fact and suspending him for four games. It's like, OK, well, if you if you if you found it bad enough to suspend him for four games. How was it not flagged? How do you miss that? I just, I don't know. It's crazy. It's wild. What bothers me more is this procedural issue that they can't overturn it.

And Matthew says it's only a matter of time until it becomes like VAR and soccer where they can buzz down and change the call, right? Well, I want it to be like that. I would like them to be able to get these things right. I don't need every call to be buzzed down. If there's a pass interference that is sort of a subjectivity call, this is not really a subjective call. This is, he did something that is the definition of the thing that you can't do. But in real time, none of us really saw it that way.

So I got, I got it. Like sometimes a ref's not there at that angle and he's looking somewhere else or he can't see from the back of Dobbs. Is it his chest? Is it at his helmet? And you can see it so much more clear. And there's just this, sorry, nothing we can do thing from the NFL that ends up costing the Vikings.

And that to me, that's just absurd that that's the rule that it has to be flagged first. Shout out to my friend Aaron here simultaneously watching the Manning cast and Matt and Manny. One of my proudest achievements that yeah, that is like the gold medallion football that you get for that. Watching the Manning cast and us at the same time, that seems hard to do, actually. So let's move on from that, because now that's two shows in a row that I've started with that rant. But there was the update to Kareem Jackson being hammered with a four-game suspension for his hit on Josh Dobbs. Let me get, before I go into all the questions I have for you, just your general reaction,

because there was a very wide range of reaction. Everything from, hey, it happens. In fact, the other night, you were talking about why you thought the Broncos might win the game, and almost everything you said came true. It's like, well, they haven't turned the ball over in a long time. They're going to mile high. And it just feels like one of these one score games might go against them.

And that is exactly how you, Manny Damas played it out there in your prediction. But there was a lot of people who had that take of like, look, you're just very much in the playoff race. It happens. It's a tough loss, but you didn't terribly that was brian murphy's reaction earlier and then there was a very far other side that was like the dobbs run is over and it's a terrible loss for the head coach and this team is going nowhere and it was fun while it lasted. So where do you stand on that spectrum of reaction to the Vikings' loss to the Broncos?

I'm just not that worried about it. I knew this was a possibility, that they could lose this game going in. Mile High is a tough place to play. It always has been. Even at the old Mile High Stadium back in the day when the Broncos weren't that good, that was still a very difficult place to play um and the broncos have been playing better and you know

i i think that the vikings they ran into a situation um in games that has you know that's hurt them in games earlier this season where you turn the ball over it just hinders your chances to win a football game and we saw that Vikings turned the ball over three times last night and all three times led to points for the Broncos now you credit the Vikings defense for holding them to just field goals off of those turnovers but nonetheless that's still nine points on the board that the Broncos were able to get because the Vikings couldn't secure the football enough. So that ultimately is what it came down to. Big picture for the rest of the season, I'm not super concerned yet. Now, depending on what happens Monday night against the Chicago Bears, that might change things.

But as of right now, I knew it was possible that they could lose this game. So the fact that they still, I think, played well enough to win and ended up only losing by one point and had the ball with a chance to go down and win and just came up short. That's just the way that cookie crumbles sometimes. So I'm not I'm not super concerned yet. I mean, I kind of go a little bit back and forth because there's plenty of reason to be unhappy with how it went and there were so many opportunities where you felt like just finish off this game just score one more time

just convert one more time in the red zone two for four with touchdowns in the red zone is okay, but they get first down at the 12-yard line late in the game where you can just say, night-night Broncos, we'll see you next time, and you end up coming away with three pretty blah plays, and then it's going the other way, and the Broncos get that chance to come back. And there were lots of those. There were third and ones. There were short yardage situations where from the first play that we were just talking about with the would be or should be penalty to in the middle of the game to later in the game.

There were chances there that you're on the doorstep of just breaking through and finishing this off. And that has kind of been a trend for the Kevin O'Connell Vikings anyway, for the entire time that he's been the coach. And a lot of times we would put that on Kirk Cousins. This is a different quarterback, obviously not as good as Kirk Cousins, but that has been a staple that they've won a lot of football games for sure. But there's a game in week one. It's a good example. That has been a staple that they've won a lot of football games for sure. But there's a game in week one.

It's a good example. But there's it seems like there's lots of games where they make it more interesting than it has to be. Even against the Saints, it was more interesting than it had to be because they just didn't put the nail in the coffin. And that's where I think you can have some reaction to say, are you going to put away enough teams down the stretch? Or are you going to let enough teams hang around like you did with the Broncos? And if you let teams hang around and you're short, you're starting middle linebacker and you're short, you're starting cornerback who, guess what, is taller than Makai Blackman. Tough assignment for mckay

blackman to go up against courtland sutton he's more of a nickel type of corner size wise and you get a jump ball in the back of the end zone what are you going to do that that's you know if you're going to let them hang around and not put them away offensively then on defense you're going to ask your defense to go five for five in the red zone, which is just almost impossible to do, especially against the quarterback who is not what he used to be. But he certainly had his moments where he looked like a little bit old Russell Wilson, especially on that touchdown throw. And so they kind of, they kind of got what they earned. And I think that that's where you can, you can belong in this. It's not nothing that they lost because if they won, they were going to be 95%

to make the playoffs. I did check today. I had estimated somewhere in the 80% Sumer sports had it more closer to 70% and the Rams getting a win. Have you looked at the Rams schedule, Manny? They don't seem scary. They seem like, oh, well, who cares about the Rams? Let me just pull this up for you real quick, because I think you're going to start to be a little nervous about the Rams coming from behind on the Vikings. If the Vikings don't cruise through the teams, they're supposed to win. The Rams play Arizona. Cleveland's going to be tough for them out Baltimore, but then Washington, New Orleans, New York, and San Francisco at the end. It's not really that tough. There's a lot of potential wins there for Los Angeles down the stretch. So there's other teams that could come from behind or you could fall apart.

I mean, suddenly, because you don't finish that game, that becomes more interesting and more possible that someone could catch you from behind, where if you win, it's not completely over. But it's like, man, you could play bad football and still end up making the playoffs. Yeah, I mean, and that's that's kind of the situation that you put yourself in. You know, I mean, let's just go back to the beginning of the year when you start out 0-3 or when you're 1-4, you get off to a bad start. And then you get yourself back. Even if you get yourself back into a good position to make a playoff run, your margin for error is still very, very slim, no matter what your remaining schedule is. So I think even in the case with the Vikings, you're going to have to find a way to beat

the team that you're supposed to beat. And that's what makes the Chicago game coming up now so important. And the Vikings will have things going in their favor. They'll be at home. The Bears are not a good team, although they looked a little bit better yesterday against the Detroit Lions. So that's another game you're looking at, and you've got to say, okay, you've got to go take care of business. You got your little bit of questionable loss out of the way now against a team that maybe you should have beaten. Now you can't have any more like that the rest of the way.

Now you've got to just take care of business, put your foot on the gas and finish the season the way you're supposed to. You're going to have an opportunity now, now that Joe Burrow's out for the season, when that Cincinnati game comes up, you're probably going to be facing Jake Browning. That's a game that you now look at and say, okay, you can go and win that game. So just go in and take care of business and don't screw around and have a letdown type of game. So you've got that sort of letdown, I wish we could have had that game. There it is. You just had it against the Broncos yesterday.

Now you've really got to take care of business the rest of the way. You can't really have any more stumbles because, like you said, with the Rams schedule, with some of these other teams kind of hanging around if tampa bay is going to hang around a little bit tampa bay has a tiebreaker over you because because they beat you week one so that's another one that they're going to have to be kind of careful of um as well so yeah i mean it's this is this is where they're at and this is what they're going to have to do the rest of the way i actually heard it's going to be Jeff Blake starting for the Cincinnati Bengals. He's going to be taken over.

Dave Klingler will back him up rather than Jake Browning. I wouldn't be surprised if it is like A.J. McCarron at that point. I don't know. That is an incredible break for the Vikings, which is why there's no reason to lose your mind over this. It's just that you made your road a little bit harder in a game that we all felt like should have won. Now, so that discussion dovetails into about 20, 30 other discussions. So I wrote down 10. And here's what I want to do, Manny. I have these as little banners that I could put on the screen. And I'm going to give you 40 seconds to answer each question.

And then what we'll do after we run through all these and you can play along in the comments answering the questions is I want you to pick where which one of these discussions you think is most interesting to keep talking about after this. OK, so we'll run through. You'll give your quick takes, and then we'll kind of pick where we want to go after that. Like, what are the most interesting questions to talk more in depth about? So I have a stopwatch and well, let me pull it up. Got on my phone, got the stopwatch. And what I'm going to do for you visually is I'm going to put it up on the screen like this.

And when it goes off the screen, that's when it's hit 40 seconds. So I don't have to like scream at you over the live stream. And then it sounds weird or bad. So why don't we start out there? If you already saw it, we'll start out. As soon as I finish answering the question is when your play clock begins to give the answer. Did Josh Dobbs play well against the Broncos last night? PFF thought so. PFF gave him a pretty solid grade. Not great, but 68 overall grade, 74 passing grade for Josh Dobbs. Manny, do you think that Dobbs played a good football game in Denver? I think he played a solid football game.

I think the turnovers the last fumble at the beginning and um obviously the interception which uh the interception wasn't completely his fault i mean ty chandler kind of missed that that uh that blitz pickup and and kind of altered the throw um but yeah i think he played solid i don't think he played great i think he was much better against new orleans but i think he played well enough for them to win. And they ultimately just came up short. If you take out the turnovers, maybe they do end up winning, but I thought he played solid.

Okay. You got the playoff before the play clock, 35 seconds there. Well done. No penalty flags there. Didn't have to go to the command center in New York to see if you had gone over 40 seconds. So we're good there. And I agree with you that I think he played well enough to win the game and got let down on a pass blocking

rep and also got some bad luck because his throw to Josh Oliver is supposed to set up the game winner there. At the same time, some of those scrambles that we love so much, a little more dicey. Some were great. Some were a little more dicey. All right. Next question. Well, hold on. Started that one to 10 panic meter on the loss to the Broncos. I know we just talked a little bit about this, but I want you to give me specific. How much should people freak out on a 1 to 10 analytic metric, really? This is what new age numbers are doing is picking 1 to 10 panic meters. So where would you put it in the loss to the Broncos?

I'd put it at about a 4. I think it's, you know, when you look at the turnovers, it's, it's the same thing that kind of hurt them earlier in the season. And I think that that raises cause for concern. Um, but I think because of what the schedule looks like over the next few weeks, um, the Vikings have an opportunity to kind of, to sort of make up for this loss and sort of really still have an opportunity to separate themselves in that race for the wildcard spot. So I'll go at about a four.

The things that hurt them were, you know, the things we've hurt, we saw earlier in the season. But I'm not ready to really, you know, write everybody off and punt on this football team, so to speak, yet. All right, you did get penalized for going a couple seconds over. But since we talked about that one a little bit just before this, we'll move on. But I think that's a good number.

Four is a solid number. Next question. Kevin O'Connell is taking it in the comments section, just getting bludgeoned by the fans last night. And some of the critiques, I would say, were accurate about his handling of last night's game. At the same time, they had a good enough game plan to be right there in position to win. I would say were accurate about his handling of last night's game. At the same time, they had a good enough game plan to be right there in position to win.

And Kevin O'Connell can't hold onto the ball for Alexander Madison. One out of 10, how much on a weekly basis do you trust Kevin O'Connell going into games? And I'll even expand on it in the biggest games that may arise as we go forward, how much do you trust him as the head coach? I'll put it at about an eight. There were several things in the game last night that I didn't love. I didn't love the trick play in the first possession

that led to the Josh Dobbs fumble. I thought that was kind of wacky and wasn't really, wasn't really the right time for it. But I think overall big picture, I think this head coach has shown that he has this team ready to play almost on a weekly basis. He's pretty good at scheming. They attack the running,

the run defense of the Broncos really well last night. So I think he's, I still trust him. I still have it at about an eight, you know, but I just wish that he would stop trying to get too cute all the time. That is a classic way to describe coaches overthinking it. And it was exactly right for last night. I would like you real quick on the fly. Dial up, draw me up, draw me up a trick play involving Josh Jobs.

What would you do? Because the last thing I would do is have the tight end flip the ball backward to him and have Kareem Jackson run at his brain. That's the, he needs that brain. He can't have Kareem Jackson on the field running downhill, full speed. And that was my issue is you need one yard and you're throwing it. You're pitching it back six yards to your quarterback who does not have the quick twitch of Ty Chandler to burst forward. It's not a running back. He also is not going to

get low pad level, all those things of quarterback. He's a good runner for a quarterback, but that's what we say for a quarterback. This would be like trying to steal a base with like a home run hitter who's fairly fast but not somebody that you want taking second and third anyway give give me give me a good one what would work with josh dobbs i don't know if i would do any trick plays with him because i'd like what he brings to the table as a quarterback you know what what I mean? Just put him in the shotgun and let him go through progressions, and if the play breaks down, he'll take off and run. I don't think you'd want to get too cute with him. And what we saw last night was just getting too cute. I think you have other guys on your roster that you can do,

you can kind of design trick plays for. You've got Justin Jefferson. We saw Justin Jefferson do, like, jet sweeps and score touchdowns, you know, down near the goal line. We've seen him do things like that. Ty Chandler is a guy that can take a direct snap and make something happen. We've seen that before, too. So I don't want to get too cute with Josh Dobbs. I like what he does as a quarterback, and that's what I want him to be.

Okay. I got one. I'll draw one up. All right. So Josh Dobbs hands the ball to Ty Chandler, Jordan Addison, former high school quarterback coming behind him pitches it. Oh, it's a double reverse. The defense's head is spinning. There are, they're all paying attention to Addison. Meanwhile, Josh Dobbs has leaked out and is streaking down the sideline. No one's paying attention to Josh Dobbs. Jordan Addison turns, fires it down the sideline. Dobbs catches over his shoulder, cruises in for the touchdown. And if the play's not there, Jordan Addison could just throw it away.

If someone covers Josh Dobbs, he won't get hit anyway, and you could just throw it away. Okay, that was Dobbs, he won't get hit anyway. And you could just throw it away. Okay. That was a little detour because I like thinking about trick plays that might make sense onto the next one, which is, is it time to extend Daniil Hunter or as he is known, Saki McSackerson every single week, Daniel Hunter with another sack. And he takes down Russell Wilson in that game played really well. As you would expect. He's had a great season.

Now we got back to back years where he's been completely healthy. He is pushing 30, but still not 30. How are you feeling about the idea of extending Daniel Hunter? I think you have to try if you can help it. But I think ultimately it will depend on the price because you also have to keep in mind, you need to re-sign Justin Jefferson still. You need to re-sign Christian Derrissaw as well. And I personally think those two guys long-term are probably a little more important. I think for the long-term vision of the team, it's not to say Daniil Hunter isn't, but those two guys I think are probably a little more important i think for the long-term vision of the

team it's not to say daniel hunter isn't but those two guys i think are more valuable um so they're higher priority if you can pull that off you can get him at a decent price i say bring him back but he's earned himself a nice little paycheck this coming off season that that was beautifully 40 seconds right on the dot like 39.8 this is a radio professional manny hill by the way yeah with daniel hunter this is one we'll probably talk about a little bit more but if anybody has done anything to earn that extension and year after year they keep kicking it down the road. And yet, Daniil Hunter continues to produce. It was really just a two-year span where he had bad luck injuries. And then you go back before that, he's incredible.

As the current version, incredible. He's never been anything short of that since he arrived. And I think years would probably be the concern for me, just with the injuries. Is he going to want five years? Could we three three would make a lot of sense there's a lot of past rushers who have fallen off at like 32 33 even jared allen uh and you know historically i think that's kind of the area where they do unless it's like a julius peppers or you know reggie white or something but you know the most most rushers in that ballpark um So yeah, I think that this was probably not that much of a discussion early in the season.

Like, oh, well, you know, we're just not going to be able to figure it out. So all of a sudden, all right, we might have to figure something out here. And if Brian Flores stays, which we'll get to, he's going to want Daniel Hunter back. On a one to 10, how concerned are you about the Bears? They played some pretty good football

with Justin Fields back against the lions botched at the end as the bears will do, but played pretty competitive ball. You concerned about the Vikings going up against the bears on Monday night football. A little bit. I'll put the concern at about a three. I'm not super concerned, but just a little bit because they seem to be playing a little bit better.

I think a big reason why they stayed in the game against the lions and, and, and played well is because the lions kind of helped them out with four turnovers. And if you're the Vikings, you're coming off a game where you turn the ball over three times. I think ultimately you have to avoid that. And the Vikings can take care of the ball,

do enough on offense. Then I think there'll be to avoid that. And if the Vikings can take care of the ball, do enough on offense, then I think they'll be fine come Monday night. But they're going to have to really take care of that football ultimately. There is a guy that I'm a little concerned about with – you didn't give a 1-10. What's the 1-10? Oh, a 3. I'm sorry. You did.

Okay, 3. The guy that I'm a little concerned about is Matt Eberflus. Because in recent weeks, it has felt like Matt Eberflus has been a little more creative with his defenses or his team has started to get it more. They have Montez Sweat now. There's just a little bit more talented. And they gave the Vikings and Kevin O'Connell some problems. And even though I don't think the Bears are very good, and I think a three is a totally fair place to put it, you still wonder if they change the coverages a little bit,

if they stop the run like they did, could this be a much closer game than you want it to be? And then not having Jordan Hicks, that still concerns me. You got a running quarterback. Jordan Hicks had a great, great game against the Chicago bears. So yeah, I might push it up a little bit higher than that. A little bit higher than three. Next question, Manny, where would Brian Flores is defense rank. If he stays next year, if he does not get a head coaching job and the Vikings can retool, fix some weaknesses, add some talent to the roster.

Where could his defense finish next season? Well, if they can bring Daniil Hunter back and, like you said, maybe add a few solid pieces in free agency, maybe hit on a draft pick or two, a guy that can step in and contribute early on. I think this could be a top eight-ish defense next year. I really like what Brian Flores has done with, you know, I don't want to say a bear cupboard,

but certainly not as much talent as Ed Donatel had a year ago. And he's really played this group up. So I think they can be a top eight ish defense. If they make some, make the right moves coming next off season. When you think about how bad they were in the first couple of weeks, I think a big part of that was they were trying to figure out what everyone did well. And also all the things that Brian Flores wanted them to do.

And with most of these players, when you look, go through the roster, who's leaving. I mean, it could be Danielle Hunter, but aside from that, there's not too many people who are free agents or, you know, who were not coming back because there's so many young pieces. We don't know about Harrison Smith. I think Harrison Smith is still playing very good football. It's not 2017 Harrison Smith that intercepts pass or gets a sack or fumble recovery every week.

But he's still, I mean, last night he was one of the higher graded players by PFF for them. Still very solid. He could come back and play. Bynum, Metellus, Ivan Pace Jr. was, I think, the highest graded defender for the Vikings. Really, really good grade against the run and took on the green dot. I mean, the corners are young. Like, who's changing. And so you can only get better. And, you know, Marcus Davenport was supposed to be that guy

who improved them, but they knew the risk this year. You go into free agency, maybe looking for someone with a little less injury problems in the past, the pass rush, the interior pass rush could certainly increase from just Harrison Phillips, Jonathan Bullard. You can and Dean Lowry is going to be out for the season. I feel bad for him. He's a sort of a pros pro type of guy, not the Dean Lowry that was there a few years ago with Green Bay just hasn't been an impact player. You try to look for somebody a little bit more who can get to the to the passer. And yeah, I agree with you.

Like top 10 is what I would say. They might finish top 10 this year and it could be even better than that. Next question. Give me a Josh Dobbs stat line prediction and whatever stat you want for the end of the season. It could be PFF grade. Right now he's grading a 75 by PFF as a Viking. It could be quarterback rating.

It could be touchdown interception, rushing yards. Just give me a prediction of where Josh Dobbs will finish in something by the end of the season. I'll go across the board, just sort of the prototypical quarterback stat that everybody lists off, right? Yards, touchdowns, interceptions, all of that. So I'm going to have him finishing with just – now we're talking just with the Vikings is statistical with

the Vikings we're not counting the Cardinal stats uh just under 2,000 yards 15 touchdowns five interceptions 450 yards rushing and uh four more rushing touchdowns is what I got for Josh Dobbs he's up to I think 130 yards rushing now so I think he'll find a way in the next six games to get about 200 and about 250 more and get to about 450 yards. That happens. They're in the playoffs and they've played really well. Right. I mean,

assuming it's not bogus end of game sort of snap padding or something. And that's, that's a pretty good pace, Manny. That's like over 16 games. Cause he'll be here for like 10, that'd be like 25 to 30 touchdowns passing and another eight to 10 rushing. That sounds like a starting quarterback to me.

If he, if he plays like that, then we end up with a discussion about, is he the quarterback next year? Which I don't think went away after last night i think that ty chandler missed the block and alexander madison fumbled the ball and josh dobbs should be three and i was viking based on the way he played um that that's he i thought he played like a good starting quarterback last night didn't play like patrick mahomes but he played like a good starting quarterback last night. So he hasn't had a major fall off game. And with the number of open receivers, he was still throwing to at times last night, especially the Oliver one. But, you know,

there were other plays as well. There's the opportunity is there and the defenses they face are not that spectacular. So I like it. I think that's good. All right. Two more, two more, uh, our fans overdoing it with Alexander Madison, uh, because they want Alexander Madison. You know, we talk about Josh jobs in the rockets. They want Madison in the rocket sent to the sun right now. Not a great statistical season for him. 3.7 yards per carry. His game against Denver, ironically, was probably his best of the year. It was second best in terms of yards after contact. Broke a lot of tackles last night. Ran well, but then falters at the biggest moment. So are they overdoing it with the criticism for Alexander Madison, or is it justified? I think they're overdoing it a little bit. I know I saw a lot of people last night, why is he still in the game? Why are they still giving him the ball?

Well, he's a better pass protector than Ty Chandler is, and we kind of saw that on display last night as well, and that's why KOC kept him in the game. And he ran the ball pretty well last night. He just had the costly fumble that kind of changed the game and he, you know, and he ran the ball pretty well last night. He just had the costly fumble that was, you know, kind of changed the game again there in that third quarter. I think they're overdoing it a little bit, but I kind of understand it because he has struggled overall this season. He's not been very productive. So I get it. But I think they're overdoing it just a little bit. I think he's still good enough to be on this team. I think he's good enough to be on the team.

It should be Ty Chandler getting more carries. And yes, I agree with you. We saw exactly what the, and sometimes I'll see this on social media where people will be snarky about, oh, you said that Chandler can't pass block or something. Like, not me. I didn't say it. The coach has said it since the beginning of training camp.

Every time that Ty Chandler's name is brought up, it's this guy is special with the football, but we need him to get the assignments right. There was something that Kevin O'Connell, in talking about Chandler, brought up pass blocking, and clearly everyone saw what happened. I mean, the linebacker basically ran right through him to Josh Dobbs and caused that interception. And look, I mean, that's got to be a factor when we weigh this in. The problem is that I don't

think Madison's been that great at it either. And when we look at, it's not like you have Latavius Murray back there, who in my mind was the best past protecting running back I've ever seen. That guy was a freak show when it came to identifying and then sticking people. He was just so, so good at it. And it was a, it was a big help with a case Keenum. But when we go to the objective metrics, as you know, that I enjoy doing Manny, uh, out of starting running backs, Alexander Madison has a Madison has a 58.6 pff grade which puts him 30th out of 31 who qualify with attempts overall he has not caught the ball he he has not

had explosive runs at all like none his he has run into his own linemen far too often just has been a pretty miserable year for him as a starter and he's under four yards carry which this is not 1992 man you just can't be under four yards carry i think it's been a pretty bad year one thing that i don't enjoy is when one player becomes the whipping boy for the fan base this was ed ingram last year it was tom compton it was dakota dozier where every time the guy does something wrong it's like oh my gosh this guy again how is he even existing and that can be frustrating because you have so many players who are having good years at the same time i i think it's i think it is justified i think it's been a pretty pretty bad year year for Alexander Madison as a starting running back. And I was just thinking last night, if they had a really good one, where would this offense be?

It would be really, really excellent. All right, last one for our rapid fire-ish questions. Is the Vikings could end up playing Detroit three times in the final four weeks, the way things look right now with the playoff picture. You like that or do you not like that? I like that because I, you know, listen, I would love to see the Vikings win the, win the NFC North this year. I think obviously a lot of Vikings fans would like to see that,

but I also like seeing the Detroit lions be good because they've been so bad for so long that it's kind of cool seeing them be competitive and and good and so if they're playing a third time in the final four weeks that means the Lions were good and won the division and it could make for some pretty interesting matchups between the two teams so I think it's good I would like to see it I would like to see it. I would like to see it as well. Not too many times I could think of it happening. There was once where Buffalo played Miami in the final week of the season

and then played them again in the playoffs. And it's a weird quirk that occasionally happens, that you play the team at the end that you play in the playoffs. But what I like even beyond this is the potential for a brewing rivalry between these teams in the future, because here's what I think we could say pretty definitively. Detroit's going to be good for a while. They got lots of good play.

I mean, most of their dudes are young. Their quarterback is not old at all. Actually, when you look up Jared golf, considering how long he's been around, you're like, really?

He's like 27 or something. I forget how exactly old don't quote me on that, but golf could continue to be their quarterback for a while. You have a Vikings team that came into this year, unsure of where they would be. They're in the thick of the playoff race. No reason to think that they're going to be a disaster in the future. Bears and Packers,

you know, future, very unclear. These two teams could be, this could suddenly be your big rivalry now within the division. And what a kind of kickoff to that it would be if they played three times in the final four weeks, including a playoff game at Ford field in Detroit, that would be pretty wild. And plus you talk about like a true test of coaching staffs having to scheme against

each other three times in four weeks. I mean, that would, that would be wild. I would absolutely love that. I'm going to do a quick ad read Manny. And then I want you to tell me you pick one and I'll pick one of those 10 questions that we want to expand upon. And then I don't know if you had time to make a list today. Did you have time to make a list today? I did not have time to make a list today. That's okay. That's okay. I wasn't sure if you did or not but we'll we'll talk about it a little bit uh at the end of the show anyway what we were uh what i sent you for a potential list but i figured that one might take too much research so i thought i would ask before i said man he's got a list and then you had nothing uh anyway all right so I want to remind you about two things. Let's start with prize picks.

This week crushed my prize picks. I had more field goal and extra points for Greg Joseph. I had more passing yards for Josh Dobbs, and I had more passing yards for Russell Wilson. Did very well on that. I think two out of three with that. Feeling pretty good. And it's very simple about prize picks.

You just pick, it could be between two and six. I like to do three of player projections, yardage, touchdowns, and you just go more or less. So if it's Josh Dobbs, 250.5 yards, is he going to throw for more or less? Boom, and you're playing. That's all there is to prize picks. Very cool.

And also you don't have to throw down insane amounts of money. You can put down 10 bucks, turn it into 200 pretty fast, very easily by just doing these player projections. Prize picks.com slash purple. If you use the code purple for a first deposit match up to $100 prize picks.com slash purple daily fantasy sports made easy. And want to remind you guys that if you are looking for somewhere to go to get out of the December weather here in Minnesota, might I suggest joining me in Las Vegas for a football game? You can escape the Minnesota December weather with me at circle Las Vegas,

where I'll be hanging out, doing the podcast for a couple of days leading up to the game. You'll be able to find me at Circa Las Vegas, where I'll be hanging out, doing the podcast for a couple days leading up to the game. You'll be able to find me at Stadium Swim, which if you haven't seen it or heard of it, just Google it and look at the pictures of Stadium Swim. This is a place you want to be. Heated outdoor pools, gigantic television, one of the coolest places on earth. And we're going to have a party that night inside Circa Las Vegas on the Friday night leading up to the game on earth. And we're going to have a party that night inside Circa Las Vegas on the Friday night leading up to the game on Sunday, drink specials, two ticket giveaway. It's going to be at the

overhang bar. So you want to go to circle lasvegas.com where it says huddle up at overhang, go there RSVP for the party, make a whole weekend of it at Circa. I will be there book your spot today. and if anybody is looking for that and has trouble finding it just reach out to me send me a dm or email but it's on circa las vegas's page where it says sports book and it says huddle up at overhang go there we're gonna have a lot of fun in a couple of weeks so let me see here uh um yeah sorry some people are making fun of me calling him Saki Sackerson. I had a friend who was Jinxy Jinxerson last night. He texted me. One of my friends from Buffalo, man, he texted me

and he said, I've got a comparison for Josh Dobbs. And of course, last week's comparison went off the rails, completely off the rails. We had Warren Moon, Steve McNair. I'm like, Oh, okay. All right, folks. Okay. Let's, let's, uh, let's take a deep breath. But what my friend brought up was Doug Flutie. Now, of course he's taller, but a very good runner, a playmaker, and a little bit suspect at times with the accuracy and with the throwing of the football and a little bit, Whoa, I don't know about that. Uh, I like that comparison. And my friend was texting me in the middle of the game saying like, I I'm all in on this Dobbs guy. Like this is super fun. And then right after that Madison fumbles and he throws the interception. Like, thank you. Thank you for jinxing that. But I do love that comparison. So as I was, uh, informing the public about prize picks and circa,

you were thinking of which one of the subjects you wanted to expand on for the end of the show here into a larger conversation. What which one would you like to talk more like where this defense is can potentially be headed because i really like where they're going with you know what brian flores has been doing um they've gotten really young um and the guys that have been playing have really been playing really well it seems like brian flores has really elevated the um the play of these guys so let. So let's talk more about this defense because I really like what I'm seeing. Well, there's the short-term and there's the long-term conversation

about what's going on. I mean, in the short-term, when we look at the upcoming schedule, you have Justin Fields, who Brian Flores just played mind games with the first time. Then you go up against possibly Aiden o'connell maybe brian hoyer maybe jimmy garoppolo i have no idea who's going to be quarterback for the raiders maybe jeff

hostetler maybe vince evans maybe david hollis maybe jeff george maybe carson palmer jimarcus russell could be i remember a couple years ago jimarcus russell was be. I remember a couple of years ago, Jamarcus Russell was trying to like put it out there that he wanted to come back to the NFL. And I'm like, I don't think so. I don't think that's going to work out my man. But yeah,

so someone's playing quarterback for them, but it probably won't be good. And then we have Jake Browning. There's another matchup with Jordan love who has played better, but another guy whose head was spinning when he went up against Brian Flores. And then a very, very good offense in the Detroit Lions, which I think will succeed against this Vikings defense. They love to throw the ball short. They've got so much misdirection. That's a tough matchup. They could finish. Where are they right now? I'm going to look up where they are right now because they have a chance to finish in the top 10 defenses i think potentially where are they right now points again yeah i mean

they're 11th they're 11th right now like that i think this is gonna be easily a top 10 defense yeah it's it's looking like it and let's see where are they against the pass they are 17th and yards against the pass looks like seventh uh seventh and yards against the runner yeah yards per attempt in the running game they're fourth that's that's fantastic that's that's unbelievable not that you could this, but if you take out the Eagles game, they're the number one rushing defense in the league, right? I mean, after that, they've been probably the best rushing defense in the league. This is the most clear cut. Do you ever remember, I mean, I don't know,

maybe there's offensive coordinators that we could think of who have done this in the past. And Mike McDaniel is that guy in Miami. Doesn't hurt to get Tyreek Hill and Jalen Waddell down there where a coordinator, Sean McVay going to Los Angeles, so blatantly takes a unit and improves them wildly. But if they finish in the top 10 here, this is way beyond what I would have set my expectation.

I was talking about in training camp. Look, if they finish 20th with all these young players, these inexperienced guys, that'll be great. That would be like a really well-done coaching job. I would really praise Brian Flores for that. And now we're on the doorstep of being much, much, much better than expectations, which does make me want to ask, though, Manny, do you think that he will get a head coaching job?

Oh, that's a good question. Because of, you know, I mean, he basically sued the league, right? Because of what happened with the Dolphins. And then, you know, maybe getting the Giants job and not getting the Giants job and that whole situation there as well um I I don't know I I don't know if he'll get another head coaching job I mean if you take that out of the equation how can he not be considered you know what I mean with just the job that he's he's done um this season and the fact that he's you know

he's got experience as a head coach in the past with the Miami Dolphins so it's not that he's done this season and the fact that he's got experience as a head coach in the past with the Miami Dolphins. So it's not like he's inexperienced in the role either. But I just wonder if the lawsuit and all of that is still kind of hanging over the heads of some of these GMs. I'm not saying it's right if it is, but I just wonder if that's still kind of a factor in all of this. But regardless, I mean, I think if the Vikings can help it, if they could. And I think I saw somebody in the comments mentioned this, too, of elevating him to like an assistant head coach's role as well.

And maybe bumping his pay up a little bit, too. Might maybe be able to help you know secure a way to kind of keep him around at least for like another year or two um because i would just love to see you know another full off season some cap space for the team to go out and get some get some players that um that he would he would really like to have on his defense he's got good players now i mean he's really elevated the play of a lot of these young guys. But, you know, you mentioned another guy on that defensive front, you know, on the interior to kind of help with the pass rush a little bit too,

a little bit more of an impact player in that department. I think what helped matters dramatically for this defense. I want to see him stick around and see what he can really turn this defense into. Fair point here by Dystopian utopia. Hilarious that he's suing the NFL for collusion and he can't get a job because of collusion. It's not so much that a general manager wouldn't hire him. I think it's that an owner wouldn't hire him. That's what I think is if you're suing us owners, it's going

to be pretty tough to say. And look, you know, Brian Flores was, I thought a really good head coach because of his defenses and who knows how that would have looked offensively if they had Tyree kill and Jalen Waddle there doing what they've done for Mike McDaniel, their offenses were very middling, but we've seen lots of teams get great wide receivers and then suddenly look better at football. Poor Teddy Bridgewater never got the Adam Thielen and Stefan Diggs that Case Keenum did, for example. So we've seen that many times. He might be better as a defensive coordinator. Like that might just be a better role for him. It certainly was for Mike Zimmer at times, not that he was a bad head coach, but he, I think, had a reputation that way as being more of a coordinator. There's lots of coaches who have been that over the years, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with being considered an amazing defensive coordinator.

He has reminded me of Dick LeBeau this year, where anybody you run out there, or the Mike Tomlin defense is where he came from. Anybody you run out there, this guy's going to find a way and they're just going to be really good. And gosh, they, they miss Jordan Hicks and Ivan pace comes in and they play, I thought was a very, very good game under 300 yards total. What more could you ask for from that game? Except for one undersized corner, who's not supposed to be in that position, not being able to knock the ball away from a guy who losses them in the end zone. They did play too far off for some of those

checkdowns underneath. No question about that. But I mean, the whole season after the start has been really remarkable to see. I want to talk about to end out of those 10 rapid fire questions, whether we think Josh Dobbs played well against the Denver Broncos, because this will be a weekly evaluation on two fronts. Front number one is, is he good enough to win anything long-term? Is he good enough to make the playoffs? I think we can say the answer is yes. Is he good enough to beat Detroit in the first round of the playoffs? Is he good enough to take you anywhere beyond just this being kind

of a cute story or a nice story? Uh, and I think what I saw last night was all phases of Dobbs where it was like, there was some really great reads and it really annoyed me that we didn't get to talk about the touchdowns more because it was so much about the trick play and the third down decisions and the end of the game and everything that happened in the post game last night in Denver that we did not discuss more magical plays and shaking off a defensive end who's running after you full speed to then throw a touchdown to Josh Oliver was just really, really something special. I mean, there's just not too many quarterbacks league who could do that.

There's probably five quarterbacks in the league who could do that. Yet at the same time on the final drive, you saw they're going to try to take away the run, his running ability, scrambling ability. They're going to force them to make a tight window throw, which I don't think he has the accuracy to be firing BBs into little tiny windows. But he's also going to get Justin Jefferson back.

So if he plays that same football game the rest of the way, I think they're going to win a fair amount of games. And I also don't think it's enough. It has to be better than that if they're going to go somewhere. But it's good enough to get you the playoffs, which leaves you in a little bit of an odd position with Josh Dobbs. If he plays like that, if he gets Justin Jefferson back and he plays better than that on a fairly consistent basis, you know, maybe a stinker thrown in there, too.

Then you're talking about this being interesting to discuss for him being the quarterback for next year. I remember watching the game last night and thinking, and I think even Chris Collinsworth late at the end of the broadcast. I think it was right before the Vikings tried to go on that last drive where he literally said. This is where the Vikings could use Justin Jefferson. And I was I remember the whole the whole game watching and saying, Dobbs is playing pretty well, but man, if they had Justin Jefferson in this game, it would change so many things for them and what they were able to do offensively. You know, they haven't really had a lot of, since Dobbs took over,

they haven't really been pushing the ball really deep down the field a lot. I think adding Justin Jefferson would change that a little bit for him or give him another option, maybe loosen up those defenses a little bit and making things a little bit easier for him because of what Justin Jefferson, just as a threat on the football field, can do for you. Yeah, I mean, I would love to see Justin Jefferson get back and just see what it looks like. And we know he would make their offense better.

That kind of goes without saying. But, like, what would it look like? How productive, how much more productive can Josh Dobbs be if he has a weapon like Justin Jefferson on the field? And hopefully we find out in the next couple of weeks. I don't know if he's going to play Monday against the Bears, but hopefully, you know, the week and then they've got the bye after that and then they've got the Raiders after the bye on December 10th.

So if you can get Justin Jefferson back by December 10th against the Raiders and just get a look at what that looks like over the last five games it'll be really interesting to see and and I might be able to get them into the playoffs and and then who knows depending on the matchup they get might determine if they can make some noise or not there call my shot here and say I think that Jefferson plays this week the national tv stage it's gonna be a big audience. It's, uh,

it's had a few weeks to ramp it up. I think he's going to do it. And then he's got extra time to rest. If it doesn't feel great afterward with the bi-week. So we'll see, but I'm going to, I'm going to just call that shot. They've been sort of winking and nodding of like, he's getting closer,

you know, like, but of course, if you're Kevin O'Connell, you don't want to say, and he's already saying, oh, well, you know, guys, he'll be questionable. So don't ask me every day about it, which we will anyway, uh, looking for hints. Um, so I don't blame him for not giving us too many hints. It just feels like Jefferson is, uh, rearing to go at this point. I'll give you a quick stat on Josh Dobbs, and then we can wrap

the show when he had a clean pocket against the Broncos, he was pressured quite a bit, almost every other snap. They did a good job of sending pressure at him. They blitzed a lot, actually 42% PFF stats here. When he had his 21 clean pocket dropbacks, he had a 90 PFF grade. He threw 16 for 21 with 178 yards, two big time throws and over a hundred quarterback rating when he was pressured 3.9 yards per attempt and graded a 46. And I'm curious, I want to look real quick if how he's done against pressure all season long, because I wonder if that's a bit of a trend,

but it tells you something about Josh Dobbs that if he's got a clean pocket, then he's, it's been horrible when pressured, but he ranked 17th. So it's not that not great when pressured this season, he's not like Lamar or Patrick Mahomes or something, but when he had a clean pocket, he was making throws. And that's going to continue to be the key here. If the offensive line stays healthy, if they keep him clean, then he's putting up Kirk Cousins' numbers last night when he's clean,

but it wasn't enough times. And some of that's causing his own pressure as well by scrambling around and so forth. But yeah, that was interesting. So on Thursday, we won't have a show live because there's no point you're going to be watching football. You're going to be sleeping after eating, uh, uh, insane amounts of food. So that's probably not the best time to do a live stream for us. So we'll let you, you uh enjoy whatever it is that you like for uh thanksgiving manny but i did

want to ask um it's it's got to be moss versus dallas right like when you think thanksgiving for you it ha it just has to be right that if you if you had done a list that's number one easily well which which which time against dallas on thanksgiving you know we're talking 98 or 2000 either one uh no i mean 98 was was was the big one um i mean three catches i think 163 yards all three catches were touchdowns i mean just the the impact that he made on a national audience and Madden and Summeroff doing the game down at Texas Stadium was just a classic all-time, not just all-time Vikings moment, but all-time Thanksgiving moment, really, in the history of those games. So, yeah, it's the one that stands out the most.

It's hard to really pick another one at this point. I'm going to give you just a couple quick ones for me. First was anytime I actually got to see Barry Sanders play. So that's one because there's just so few times that I would ever get to see him play. The Lions were very rarely on national television. And when he was playing on Thanksgiving, that was like my one big moment. When Leon let slid in the snow against the Miami Dolph dolphins and touch the football when he shouldn't have, and then gave the dolphins another field goal at it. That was certainly one

of the most memorable. And then one of the all time great plays in NFL history, the butt fumble by Mark Sanchez happened on Thanksgiving night and Chris Collinsworth with one of, in my mind, one of the great broadcasting calls ever, where as soon as he saw the replay, he goes, Oh no. Oh no. And if you remember the not, not top 10 plays there, it went on, there was some streak it had is like the number one funniest or worst play or whatever for six months on ESPN, the butt fumble. So so I hope everybody has an enjoyable Thanksgiving. Of course, the podcast will carry on, though. Just I don't think there's going to be another live show this week and probably I'll do it Sunday.

Like after Sunday's games, we'll talk about what it means to the Vikings. And, uh, well, I'll go from there. If, if there is, I'll tweet it and so forth, or you'll get a notification. But, um, anyway, so happy Thanksgiving to you, Manny and enjoy. I mean, how great is this by the way, Thursday, all football Sunday, stress-free for Vikings fans. You got another crazy Saturday of college football, and then you have a Monday night football game. Biggest stage. It's a great week. A lot to be thankful for with football. So thanks, Manny. Go enjoy the rest of this football game and we'll talk to you soon.