Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Making the Vikings' offense modern, Part 1 with author/coach Bobby Peters

Episode Date: December 29, 2020

This is part 1 of a series diving deep into what makes NFL offenses modern and what the Minnesota Vikings can stand to learn from this season in order to upgrade next year. How do modern offenses use running backs and the running game? Do the Vikings have a modern play-action game? How does their team building factor in? And which offenses should they be stealing from? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everyone, before we get into today's podcast, I want to tell you about Blue Wire Hustle, a brand new program where you can host your very own podcast here at Blue Wire. Hustle was created to give everyone the opportunity to take your podcast to the next level, or if you want to host a podcast and just don't know where to start, Hustle is the perfect place for you. As part of the program, you'll receive a personal cover. As part of the program, you'll receive a personal cover. As part of the program, you'll receive personal cover art, Q&As with Blue Wire's top podcasters,

access to our community Discord and e-learning course full of tips and tricks. And on top of that, we'll help you get your show pushed out to Apple, Spotify, Google, Stitcher, and all listening platforms. The best part is you can get all of this for $15 a month, the same rate as any other hosting site would charge for an initial setup. So whether you're starting from scratch or have an existing show that wants to grow, Hustle is an open door leveling up your sports experience. Acceptance in the program is limited, so get your application in today. Go to bwhustle.com slash join.

Check out the description box to find out more. That's bwhustle.com slash join. Hello, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here and joining me, he is the author of many books now, including the San Francisco 49ers Offensive Manual and most recently, an in-depth deep dive of the 2017 New England Patriots offense in which it is broken down to a ridiculous, preposterous level. And if you are a huge football fan and you want to understand X's and O's and offenses better, I greatly, greatly suggest that you go find those books. Bobby Peters, what is up, Bobby? Not much, Matthew. How are you doing? I am doing really well. That was a hell of an intro, and you just give me like, I'm good, man.

How are you? The founder of the Purple Insider. So, look, Bobby, we've got a problem here in Minnesota. And I am doing a series, what I want to call it, with a couple of different people that I'm interviewing here over the next few weeks to talk about what makes a modern NFL offense. And the issue is that Vikings fans are very frustrated by the Vikings offense. And just to go through it a little, they have the 10th best offense in expected points added, which is decent. They are 13th in points, which is decent. They are very high in yards per play, sixth, which is good. But, you know, none of this is good enough to overcome defensive problems when you have injuries when you have turnover the things that happen a lot with nfl uh defenses

and and you can't always predict that from year to year but what usually will help you overcome that is having a highly explosive elite offense and the vikings have the talent to do it bobby two of the best wide receivers in the NFL one of the best running backs I know the offensive line has its struggles but they have two solid tackles and a quarterback that they're paying a truckload of cash so what I want to talk with you about is philosophically from you the fact that you study all of the these great offenses through the years I want to talk about what makes a modern and a highly successful offense and how to get the most out of the parts that the Vikings have.

So let me ask you broadly when I say to you, how can an offense become modern? I know that it is an extremely broad question and probably a very long answer, but what comes to mind for you first when I say that? So when I think of modern, efficient offenses, let's just throw out the Chiefs because they're a complete anomaly. So let's throw them out for this discussion. So when I think of like modern, efficient NFL offenses, specifically, especially with the pass game, because that's probably where you want to start with this, is the ability for the offense and the quarterback to throw the ball on time at the top of his drop to the quarterback to throw the ball on time

at the top of his drop to the first read, first or second read in his progression. When I study offenses, you know, week to week, game to game, the successful ones are able to get the ball out the first or second read in the progression, limit the thinking for the quarterback, limit the amount of time the offensive line has to pass protect. This can be done through the drop back game, play action game, screen game. But the ability to do that week to week in the NFL is what creates efficient offenses. So let's talk about in depth a little bit more from the passing game perspective

because the Vikings are highly successful when they use play action. This year their amount of play action dropped off from last year, but I think that that's in part because they were playing from behind more often and having to play from the drop back. So let's separate it into two parts because I think that the Vikings, their play action game is terrific. I mean, they're highly successful in doing it. They're very efficient.

Kirk Cousins is always among the best in the NFL, and I can get it for you if you give me two clicks in a second here what his exact statistics are but the last time I checked very very good when it comes to the play action game and you know I think that they do a good job of connecting the run game in the past game together he is fourth in quarterback rating in the NFL Kirk Cousins this year when using play action. To me, that says a lot about Gary Kubiak's offense getting it when it comes to play action and how to marry it with the run game and make it work. And I think from this perspective, the Vikings do have a modern offense. Absolutely. And that's kind of the, you know, Gary Kubiak's MO for years. And specifically with play action, it's the idea

of play action really everything that i just talked about getting the ball out you know quickly helping your offensive line like that all fits into the play action category nicely because it kind of forces the quarterback you know based on the defense's response you know let's let's look at like a typical a typical three level stretch whether it went you want to you know have a crossing route coming from one side of the other a three level flood or even like a naked or bootleg you're creating levels in the defense getting the quarterback on the run what you're doing is you're creating a read where the quarterback essentially has you know a two-on-one on a flat defender okay the play action is going to hold the inside hook defenders if you do it right um and you're basically creating a two-on-one so it's

you got a first read a second read and the second read is usually like you know a tight end or a running back in the flat as a check down. And then, you know, the play's over. The quarterback scrambles or, you know, he takes off from there. And typically, a benefit of the play action is you've got the defensive line playing the run first before, you know, they're on their way to the quarterback. So you're artificially creating that, you know, all that stuff that we talked about with the first question with play action. And that's one of the benefits of it. And like you said, Gary Kubiak does it real well.

He designs it, and he marries it really well with what he does week to week in a live game as well. Now I think where some of the holdup is with this is maybe not using it enough and also handing the ball off too often. And this is where, and I want to get into the drop back game because I think that's problematic for the Vikings as well. And you see it with the drop-off from play action where Kirk Cousins, actually let's talk about that first before we get into the run game.

Because Kirk Cousins has a 120 quarterback rating when he's using play action and a 95 quarterback rating when he's not. Now I know that some of that is built on circumstance. You're not running play action on third and 10. It's much harder for quarterbacks on third and 10, especially somebody that has a struggling interior offensive line, and all those things play into it. But I also feel like the Vikings' dropback passing game has just been problematic for years, and I wonder if that is a product of somewhat, maybe it doesn't play to the strengths

of Kirk Cousins or at times I've looked at the film Bobby and felt like where are they giving Kirk Cousins easy yards like the Vikings have a very high yards per completion they have a very high average depth of target they're throwing it down the field effectively but the easy yards where he's throwing it two yards and someone's running for 20, they just don't seem to be coming this year as much as they did last year with Kevin Stefanski. Yeah, that's the drop back game. It's definitely harder to create those easy reads, easy throws. And that's where you get that separation from, you know, the good, the good, the good efficient offenses year to year, the ones that lead the league.

Like I said, for all the Chiefs, they're an anomaly. They don't count. They have a robot playing quarterback, so they don't count. But you look at the 49ers last year. They were pretty efficient in the past game, right? But personally, I put Jimmy Garoppolo in that same bucket as Kirk Cousins. They're very good quarterbacks. They're very good NFL quarterbacks, but they're not the kind of guy where, you know,

if things aren't perfect, they're not going to bail out their offensive coordinator and head coach constantly like a Lamar Jackson type or guys like that, you know, that are more mobile, you know, can make that explosive play. So you have to be more precise and more creative with how you create these opportunities in the dropback game.

And Kyle Shanahan is one of those coaches that does. And how he does it is through different types of option routes, different free releases for guys out of stacks and bunches. Even this year, you know, watching their pass game, you know, when they get into third and mediums, third and longs, every single time they're running some sort of, whether it's a two-by-two or three-by-one, they're in a bunch formation. I don't have the exact stats for you, but it feels like that.

Every time I'm cutting up a game, it's like okay i see i see third and eight on this board but i'm like up here we go we're gonna go three by one or two by two double snug you know 10 personnel you know 10 personnel type look with no attached tight end and what they do out of that is they like to create you know they get to their past concepts that way and basically creating free releases showing their quarterback the cover you know whether they're using motion or or um you know like a short motion or a motion across the formation to help show their quarterback, you know, whether they're using motion or, you know, like a short motion or a motion across the formation to help show their quarterback coverage, different things like that. And there's a lot of specific things week to week they do differently to create those

types of opportunities. And then this year, because I'm currently working on a book breaking down the Green Bay Packers offense, they are obviously blessed with a quarterback like Aaron Rodgers. So they kind of half count, half don't count. But the way they're playing is they're not relying on Rodgers to do these crazy things week to week. It's not even close. He's operating much more like a Jimmy Garoppolo,

Kirk Cousins-type quarterback in the sense that he's getting the ball out on time, he's getting the ball out to his first read, and Matt LaFleur is doing an awesome job in the drop-back game specifically too, obviously play action. But they're more drop-back focused than play action, as opposed to guys like Kubiak and Shanahan and even McVay so what they do in the drop back game to create easy reads for a Hall of Fame quarterback has been pretty fun to study and one of the ways they do it is they run um a looky option out the Saints call it Lucy so what it is is a so imagine

like a two by two spread set the the inside receiver will typically be, will almost always be Devontae Adams if he's running the low-key route. So he's going to try to slow release off the line, and he's going to run a slam. And if there's defenders inside of him or they've got a guy walling him, then he'll run like a four-yard out. If they're bracketing some sort, he'll sit down. So it's like a true option route at like four yards in, out, or sit. And then the guy all the way to the outside of him will clear out on a fade.

So what that does is you've got a guy like Devontae Adams. If he's one-on-one, he's winning that because he's a sub receiver and the Vikings got two guys that can run that route easily, you know, with Jefferson and Beeland. So, you know, that kind of a play, putting your best receiver on an option route at the first reading of play. Hey, and this is where the coaching comes in. It's like, Hey, get the ball. It's the number one read here.

Get the ball. We're throwing the looky unless he's double teamed. That's what's happening. We're winning this matchup. And the Packers are a great example. I don't have the stats in front of me, but I'll definitely be in my book. You know, the amount of times when they run this concept that the ball goes to Adams unless he's double teamed.

And, you know, obviously, you know, as a coordinator, as a play caller and play designer, you want to design something on the other side of the field to attack if he does get double teamed, right? Like you've got like a return route coming back into the quarterback's vision. You've got stick, like the Packers love to pair with their stick nod concept. So like if an extra linebacker comes over, well, now you've got, you know, a double move going up the seam, you know, with a tight end

or another receiver on the other side of the field. So that's just one example of a way to do it, to get the ball, to give your number one receiver controlled freedom to get open and win a one on one matchup. You know, get the ball on time. Quarterback's footwork on that is basically like a catch and throw from shotgun. So, you know, even if the defense brings pressure, the ball's in and out, you know, it's, it's, that's just an example of, you know, doing the things that we talked about, you know,

the first question. So this is a great point about Devontae Adams and Aaron Rodgers. And by the way, quarterback with the number one rating when not using play action is Aaron Rodgers, which, you know, like you said, he's a freak talent. He's an all-time great talent, but clearly there's a difference between what was going on the last couple of years with him and what he's done this year. And Devontae Adams has been there the whole time. So, you know, and I don't think that he has this preposterous group of weapons, which to me says coaching is maximizing quarterback.

And this is what I think that Vikings fans would like to see with Kirk Cousins, where his quarterback rating is good at the end of the year and he's got a good amount of touchdowns, maybe too many interceptions this year, a couple of Hail Marys mixed in there, a couple of bad ones, as always with Cousins. That's going to happen. He's not Aaron Rodgers. But when you look at the yardage totals, the pass attempts totals, and when you're having a quarterback throw,

even when they've been playing in a lot of close games and playing from behind, the 27th most passes as a team, that makes you go, well, what's the disconnect here? And, you know, I was just looking at Justin Jefferson and his third down statistics, and he averages 17 yards per reception on third down, which you might say is great. But you also might say, doesn't that mean you should really be throwing to him more often on third and four, third and three, third and two? Like he shouldn't only be catching 17, 20, 25-yard passes on third downs when you need to move the sticks. And this has been, I think, the biggest frustration of Vikings fans this year is you get to third and five. Here's Kirk in the shotgun.

He takes the snap. There's a lot of deep routes down the field. And then he's looking around and someone beats a guard for a sack. And it's really made them an inefficient offense at times. They are 18th in scoring percentage, which when you're creating over six yards of play, you should not be 18th in scoring percentage. But there's the disconnect there of a lot of failed drives. And I think those third and mediums, Bobby, are the ones that you most often see and where they most often did

not succeed. Yeah, definitely a common theme, you know, going back even to, you know, 2016, 2017, when I started studying offenses, like, you know, from year over year, you know, one of my biggest takeaways that, you know, I take as a high school coach is, you know, third and mediums and even third, you know, like third and eight to 10, the ability for like a quick game concept, like double slants or even that looky concept that we just talked about to be efficient on like a third and medium, third and long, you know, a lot, a lot of coaches get, okay, now it's third down. Now I got to max protect. I got to, you know, push the ball. I got to run dagger.

I got to do these different things to get the ball down the field. When in reality, the quick game stuff is very efficient on those down and distances. One specific example I remember was the 2017 Rams, field when in reality the quick game stuff is very efficient on those down and distances um one specific example i remember was the 2017 rams making mcveigh's first year there when they called i think it was i think it might have been their two-man stick concept with like a backside space concept which is another quick game concept so the quarterback is not taking a drop from going he's just catching and throwing and they were i think i want to say they were like six of six or

eight and eight when they called that on third and mediums in their 2017 season. And that's, you know, obviously perfect. So it's like, you know, as a coach, like, you know, I went in with like my prior misconception. Like, why would I run two-man stick on like third and six? Like, you know, if he gets tackled at three, four yards, you know, now I look like an idiot for running around short of the sticks. But, you know, if you pair it right, you tag it with the backside spacing concept, it turns out to be a pretty efficient play. You know, if you get the ball in and out,

you know, what you're doing is you're minimizing, you know, the pass, the effect of a pass rush. You're taking away some thinking from your quarterback. He doesn't have to hold onto the ball and think. And, you know, for the most part, even the great NFL quarterbacks, you know, the longer they hold the ball, the more likely they are to make a mistake,

the more likely, you know, it's just, it doesn't usually add up well for the offense. And, you know, all that mixed together, you know, there's ways to run that kind of stuff on third and mediums, even third and longs to still be efficient. I want to remind you to go to Stotastick.com to get your original Minnesota sports-inspired goods. There are many great designs.

Someone on Twitter recently sent their John Randall shirt, and there's the Can't Stop the Feeling hats, the Tecmo Bowl throwback shirt, and much more. All of their apparel is screen printed here in Minnesota on super soft, super comfy shirts and hoodies. You will love it. We're going to hook you up with free shipping on your next order. Use the code PURPLEINSIDER for free shipping. That's S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com. SodaStick, original Minnesota sports-inspired goods. Code PURPLEINSIDER for free shipping. I love that you're saying things and then I'm clicking to back them up statistically.

Click and I have Kirk Cousins when it comes to how quickly he throws the ball. 31st out of 42 quarterbacks this year in terms of snap to release, which, hey, if he was Deshaun Watson or Josh Allen running around, that's fine. But he's not. He's supposed to be the quarterback who's getting the ball out quickly. And I don't think all of that is because of bootlegs and play actions. And I do think, you know, some of it is on Kirk. Like some of this is it's who he is and it won't ever change, that he can be hesitant, he doesn't force the ball into tight windows a whole heck of a lot, and when he does,

he usually doesn't have quite the juice on his passes to make that work. But at the same time, holding onto the ball, I think, is a product of some of the things that are going on around him because even in 2018, there were games where when they had a quick passing offense, where he was getting it out quickly. I remember specifically against Philadelphia, I thought, wow, this offense really works for Kirk. And maybe old takes exposed a little bit there for me on that. But I think there needs to be a mix. And also, I love that you mentioned that you actually can throw it short of the sticks if you're going to run for a first down.

So maybe we shouldn't always quote John Madden of, I don't know, why they throw it short of the sticks on third down. Like, well, yeah, because the defense knows you're going to throw it past the sticks. So you're going to have to find something there. But let me move on to the running game, Bobby. I think this running game is fantastic. I think it's almost too good. And the reason it's too good is because they believe in it too much it's like it works they have guys who can block it it is more complicated than just outside zone they added

a lot to it there were a couple games where they were using power concepts and it was like oh okay you got pulling guards in in this, pulling Brian O'Neill sometimes at the right tackle position. But if we're taking the run-pass ratio away and the obsession with it, I think it's about as good of a run design as you're ever going to find. Yeah, I think in general, at least the last couple of years, I don't know if it's, you know, Kyle Shanahan getting more attention in his offense, getting more attention in coaching circles, but the running games across the league for the most part have been year over year,

especially this year. A lot of the teams I'm studying with the run games, they're just so cohesive. They take advantage and they complement each other real well. I think one example I like to talk about is the packers and obviously vikings fans are very familiar with three-day packers um you know they they they have almost gone the opposite way they've like simplified so they run they still run outside zone they run it almost exclusively out of 11 and 12 personnel they won't run any of like the lead stuff the eye stuff that you know like the kubiaks and shanahan's like it's almost just you know it's

it's like the more mcveay style where he's kind of, he's kind of mixed it up more this year, but in the past, you know, he just run it with, you know, one tight end or two tight ends, you know, go weak, go strong type of thing. And, um, yeah, obviously within that, he there's, there's some variations and stuff, but so he'll run that. They're on inside zone and duo. And that's about it. Lately he's been running more gap stuff. Like he, like the power, like you were saying against Carolina and they played Carolinaolina he ran a bunch of gap stuff because they they based out of like

an odd tight front so um he did get in and run some 21 personnel power but so like so that example is it's a very cohesive run game but it's simplified and it complements it all the concepts complement each other real well and the packers have gotten real good at it they they've got on some line has gotten real good at those concepts. They're not trying to do too much. They're not trying week to week. It's a similar style of game plan. They don't have to reinvent the wheel each week. And I see that same similarity with the Vikings whenever I turn them on too,

is, you know, Gary Kubiak does a great job of marrying all that stuff together. And then obviously he does a good job bringing it together with the play action concepts as well. But in general, it's been cool year over year to kind of see NFL teams in general get better with the run concepts together. And like I said, I don't know if that's, you know, more Shanahan coaches or Kubiak coach disciples types, you know, kind of branching out and taking over different teams.

But even some of the other teams, too, that don't necessarily have those guys are kind of getting better at it. And I think one example, too, is Matt Nagy and the Bears. You know, the last four weeks, their run game has been a lot better because they've focused more on it and they've kind of bought in more with it. Right, rather than just running inside zone out of a shotgun and having David Montgomery get tackled immediately, they're actually having him do some cutbacks

and things that he's good at on those outside zone runs. So this is the thing. They have an offensive line that is built to block for the run. They utilize those players' skills. This is where it's kind of funny. It's like you don't really do this for the passing game, but you do it so well for the running game. Garrett Bradbury is terrific when it comes to reach blocks and things like that.

He's super quick. He can close off or wall off nose tackles if he needs to. But then when it comes to the passing game, they're just like, hey, Garrett, just, you know, handle that bull rush from that guy who's got 40 pounds on you. And he gets shoved back into the quarterback. I just feel like it's amazing to me that they have an offensive line that's built for one side of the ball. They seem to, you know, work to those players' skills,

but don't always work on the other side to their skills as a passing game. And sometimes you can, but I think that that's part of the frustration. And I wanted to ask you what you think the role of the running game should be in the year 2020, because sometimes it gets painted as a team should never run. Well, you know, of course, I don't agree with that. But at the same time, if you look at expected points added through passing games, the last 10 Super Bowl teams, teams that went to the Super Bowl, all have top five expected points added in pass. Even the 49ers, where Jimmy Garoppolo got criticized to some extent last year

for sort of being like the robot quarterback who just you know does what he's told still San Francisco had an elite passing game in terms of their efficiency so I wonder where you think that running fits into the equation or should fit into the equation if you're having a you know very much modern offense I think I think when you're big picture in the off season, when you're kind of building an offense, you need to understand that fact that that passing is what wins in the NFL. And it's what wins, you know, it's what scores points. You know,

they say throw it, they say throw to score, run to win. And there's, there's a lot of, to me, there's a lot of truth in that statement because you need both to be good. You need both to win. Unless you obviously you're obviously you're Kansas City and you have Patrick Mahomes, then nothing else matters. But, you know, it's important to be good at both. Like, you know, obviously I go back to the Packers because I'm studying them right now, so I'm, you know, really deep and in-depth with them.

But, you know, they've turned Aaron Rodgers into, like, a Jimmy Garoppolo-type quarterback. Now, obviously, like, you know, he still does his thing. But, like, what they're asking him to do on a down-and-down basis is similar to that Shanahan-McVay mold of like this is our offense. We're going to run it. We're going to simplify things and make your job easier. And he loves it.

He's playing the best ball of his career. I think he's got, what, 44, 40-something, 40-some-odd touchdowns through week 16 and, you know, still got one more regular season game to play. So I think designing an offense with that in mind, that passing still gets it done, or passing is the way to kind of win in the NFL, right? Like it's what the analytics say, it's what everything says, but you still need that running game because the Packers offense is built around the run game and their ability to to do that successfully and

something I've been kind of studying with with their offense is okay when they get one high looks versus two high looks like what is their yards per carry and their yards per carry goes up pretty significantly when when they see two high looks and of course when you have Aaron Rodgers as your quarterback you're going to see a lot more two high coverage looks because you want to take away the stuff down field you want to take away the play action stuff and you know when you have Aaron Rodgers as your quarterback, you're going to see a lot more too high coverage looks because you want to take away the stuff downfield. You want to take away the play action stuff. And, you know, when you see those looks, right, you should be in theory able to run the ball better.

And they are because they're well coached. They're able to stick on their double teams longer. They're not working as quickly to a linebacker. And that's been the case for them. And that's made them a very efficient offense. They're able to move the ball up and down the field with that. By the way, the Packers are number three in the NFL in terms of passing expected points added. Kansas City number one, and Stephon Diggs' Buffalo Bills that committed to just throwing passes on every single play,

they're number two. Tampa Bay with Tom Brady, number four. Tennessee, number five. I mean, these are Super Bowl contenders who are in the top five, again, in expected points added. And I think there's another point here, Bobby, that you're an X's and O's expert and maybe not a general manager guy. But I also think that if you're building your team, you don't necessarily want to

pour your assets into things that are focused on the run game. Because as you mentioned, if your passing game is explosive, your running game will kind of come along behind it anyway. And I don't even mean that the Vikings shouldn't have paid Delvin Cook. I think that there's a debate there. But even part of it, and this is what I'd love to ask you about, is throwing to the running back is a very 2020 thing. There's a lot of teams that do it

efficiently and really effectively the Vikings seem to only want to ever use Delvin Cook on checkdowns and screens and I wonder if you when especially when you were looking at the New England Patriots offense I felt like they did a tremendous job of utilizing their running backs out of the backfield and I think that it would help preserve Delvin Cook, and it might create more explosive plays if instead of using him in the running game as often as they did, they designed him more to be a part of the passing game. Yeah, absolutely.

And I think that comes back to your overall offensive philosophy, right? If you want to get your running back involved, there's ways to do it. And the example you know, the example of the Patriots offense over the years with Tom Brady is a perfect example. Number one, Tom's willingness to get the ball to the backs and his ability to trust them.

But number two, you know, Belichick and McDaniels making the running backs part of the primary part of the progression. You know, whether it's through option routes or, you know, we already talked about an option route. So let's talk about a different concept that they run. So they'll run. So imagine like a tight end trips to the field right you have a tight end and two receivers

and then to the boundary they'll snug up the receiver a bit and put the back week in shotgun and they'll run kind of like a two-man snag concept over that side of the field so now what you're doing is you're forcing a linebacker in the box because the defense that they're going to rotate safeties they're probably going to rotate strong when you have a three-man surface to the field so now you're taking a box linebacker and putting him in an in-and-out bind with the snag route and the swing from the running back. So now you're basically, you know, depending how that snag route is run, you're basically getting a two-on-one spacing with the corner.

And Tom Brady over the years did an awesome job reading it, and the running back has some reading too. Because if the linebacker tries to go over the top of the snag, the backs can get the ball hot and flat. If he tries to undercut it and trail it, the backs can kind of rail up the sidelines a bit. And that was, that's a concept that the Patriots were very successful with and,

you know, we're very successful with over the years, you know, not just 2017. And it's, it's an easy way to get the ball in the flat. And now imagine, right,

that corner's playing, you'll say it's cover three, that corner's playing 12 yards off, that flat defender tries to go over the top. You get the ball to Dalvin Cook in the flat, you you know he's got a ton of space with the linebacker trying to chase him from the inside and you know with a corner just 12 yards off you know that's that i like my odds if i'm a vikings fan uh you know with dalvin cook with the ball in the flat with some space around so there's there's easy ways to get the ball to your running back in

space like you said and that's something that you have to philosophically you know believe in and something philosophically you have to you know implement in the off's something that you have to philosophically, you know, believe in and something philosophically you have to, you know, implement in the off season so that you can design concepts like that to get the ball to your running back in space. And once again, that's the first, you know, once again, talking about our efficient, our efficient offense idea, right? Like that's, that's a ball. It's a two man read. It's a one, two read. Corvette catches the ball from shotgun. He's getting the ball in and out.

So you're not asking the offensive line to pass throw for too long. So if you get bowl rushed and knocked over, so what? The ball's out. You know, you're ball in and out so you're not asking the offensive line to pass throw for too long so if you get bull rushed and knocked over so what you know the ball's out you know you're not you know you're not you're not trying to pass protect for four seconds so so that concept fits into what we were talking about but it also focuses on getting the ball to your playmakers in space so you know whether you want jefferson or feeling being that x receiver in that snug set you know now you got two of your best football players as your ones you read and beauty about that concept is it works against most sports. And you can practice it and get good at it,

and it doesn't matter what the defense does. Explain the snag route real quick. A snag route, sorry. So a snag route is basically like a four-yard hit shot. So he's going to run four yards and stop, and he's kind of angling in to try to not pick the linebacker. So if he leaves, he's going to replace him. And if it is man coverage,

he is going to try to essentially pick and enforce him depending how you want to coach it, depending how you want, what your goal of the play is. Right. So we go back to philosophy here. If you want him to go over the top, you're going to have that, that receiver aim for the linebacker's feet. If you want him to trail and kind of get that back up, you know, get that back up the sideline for a big play on a rail route, you're going to tell him to attack that linebacker's back and force him to trail the running back, you know, kind of chase him from behind. And a rail route is kind of like a wheel.

It's a wheel, yes. It's a quicker version of a wheel where he's not really like faking and looking to the flat. He's just kind of going straight up the sideline. Right. So I was looking, by the way, and you're talking about getting Cook the ball underneath. He has not been targeted a single time over 10 yards. And not that I think that the guy is a wide receiver. I mean, I don't think he's like Christian McCaffrey exactly. But when you talk about those rail routes or wheel routes, I mean, we just never see this. We never see Delvin Cook go down the field.

We never see him line up in the slot. I will check right now to see if he is lined up in the slot at any point this year, but I don't think that he has. And so for me, that says, you know, you've got one of the most dynamic guys with the ball in the entire NFL, and I'm not saying they're not using him enough. They most certainly are, but they're using him in the same ways all the time. If you play the Minnesota Vikings, you know exactly what Delvin Cook is going to do and you're never surprised. And I think that that's part of it is that when you watch and you, of course, study very, very closely, every detail of these offenses, if people could not tell.

But you know what, just as a sort of general observer, I think the best offenses catch you by surprise sometimes. And all of a sudden, something's happening that you didn't expect. And every once in a while, this has happened. Justin Jefferson lined up in the backfield, and then he ran a little flat. And Adam Thielen was wide open for a touchdown against the Bears, and they were completely baffled by what was going on. But then we just won't see that again. Or we won't see stuff like that on a consistent drive-to-drive basis.

There will be a lot of drives where it's like, oh, three staples of the offense and the other team kind of knew it was coming and it's a three and out and here's a punt. And I think that that's one of the things that I don't ever feel like the Vikings are a million miles away from this? I feel like it's in the details that they're, that they're not quite to a San Francisco or Los Angeles Rams level. Yeah. When it comes to, especially, so specifically with rail routes, not every running back can run those. That's, that's kind of a, Hey, can this guy do it? Can this guy can't? And honestly, I haven't, I haven't seen enough Vikings or I haven't seen enough Dalvin Cook to, you know, make that assessment. And I'm sure, I'm sure the coaches the coaches could could answer that for you that might be a good question to ask them is hey is this a route a route that fits his skill set well where would you where would you place

his ability to run this route um you know amongst amongst all the other running backs in the league and you know so that's just one example but you look at a lot of times what the the shanahan guys will do is they'll use the line to back up wide and they they do that Kyle does that a lot Matt LaFleur does that with Aaron Jones a ton and some of his big plays have come from that whether he's running a go router a double move I remember week two against the Lions Aaron Jones you know because they played so much man coverage under Patricia you know would line him up wide get a linebacker on him you know game over you know they're running a sluggo they're running a hitch and go they're running different stuff um you know, to him. So yes,

they'll use him on some rail routes, but they see his skillset more as like that true receiver lined up wide type of thing too. So there's different, you know, different running backs have different skillsets for catching the ball. And I think being able to identify what your guy can do and can do well and kind of fit that in. You know, over the years, the 49ers, you know, with Kyle Shanahan have done that, but it's not – they don't so much focus on it and feature it as much as,

like, LeFleur and the Packers had. What they do it more is more for coverage identification. You know, hey, if we're going to get a one-on-one out here, we might throw him a hitch. We might do different things. We might run him on a now slant coming under some verticals. So if the linebacker's carry, now we have him in space underneath. So there's different ways you can do it, you know,

without necessarily, you know, using him as the number one option either too. So there's a lot of, like you said, it's a philosophical thing. You have to identify, okay, what can he do well? How can we fit this into our overall structure of our offense to be efficient? 2020 has already reshaped how we work and it's almost over. Businesses across the globe are challenged to be their most efficient, which means every hire is critical. Indeed is here to help. We'll be right back. the person you need to keep business going. Unlike other sites, Indeed gives you full control and payment flexibility over your hiring. You only pay for what you need. You can pause your account at any time, and there are no long-term contracts. And now, Indeed's new way of matching you with candidates

instantly delivers a short list of quality candidates whose resumes on Indeed match your job criteria, and that you can contact the moment you sponsor a job, making Indeed the only job site that can move as fast as you do. 73% of online job seekers in the U.S. Right now, Indeed is offering our listeners a free $75 credit to boost your job post, which means more quality candidates will see it fast. Try Indeed out with a free $75 credit at Indeed.com slash BlueWire.

This is the best offer you're going to find anywhere. Go right now to Indeed.com slash BlueWire. Offer valid through December 31st. Terms and conditions apply. The NBA is back in action and football is heading into the playoffs. You might not be at the game this year, but you can still be in on the action at BetOnline. BetOnline is going the extra mile to make sure you can get in on every possible chance to win this season.

From game spreads and totals to team, player, and coaching props, BetOnline gives you more options to wager than anywhere else. You can get in on their season-opening bonuses today and start off wagering on wins, divisions, championships, and futures all day, every day. Head to BetOnline today and take advantage of all the great sign-up bonuses. Don't forget to use the promo code BlueWire at BetOnline.ag. That's BlueWire, all one word, BetOnline, your online sportsbook experts. Well, and the other thing is, too, that if you're only ever going to use one running back ever all the time,

you don't have guys who have different skill sets who could do different things who are rotating into the game. And that's another part of building this team where the Vikings number three and number four wide receivers, they've got to be the slowest number three and number four wide receivers on the planet. Like these are not playmakers. These are kind of guys who, you know,

might get seven yards a catch or something like they, they're as fast as most backup tight ends. They just have no explosiveness and there's no backup running back with a play making element or a scat back. People would remember, maybe you're not old enough for this, but David Palmer was a guy that would line up in the slot he'd line up in the backfield for the Vikings for a long time and he would punt return and there used to be those guys and I think that some teams still have them and use them really effectively San Francisco used their three running backs last year with a great deal of effectiveness with kind of their different skill sets and you know the Vikings just want to give the ball to Delvin Cook every play and I think that that that that eventually it wears him down one,

but it also is like you know the things he's going to do, and it never takes anyone by surprise. I think that's another part of it. So let me ask you this before we wrap up. So you've studied the Green Bay Packers closely. You've studied a number of other teams and offenses. Who's the best? Who is the best of the best of the best?

Who's the most creative? And, again, I'll agree with you. Throw out Kansas City from everything. They can do the most ludicrous things. They can copy plays from 1942, and it'll work because it's Mahomes. So throw them out. Who do you think is the best of the best that Vikings fans should be looking at and saying, how can we be like them?

And not only just from X's and O's, but from getting everything they can out of the skills of the players that they have. Definitely a tough question. I got to go with San Francisco 49ers though. And what Kyle Shanahan does there and the rest of the coaching staff too. What they do in the run game every week is, I mean, this year has been just as fun to watch even

though they haven't been winning and they haven't been moving the ball as much as far as much but the run game this year what they're doing with the different the different what i like to call escort motion so uh and typically this is how they'll do it they'll line up imagine okay like a two by two sets like receiver on each side tight and then they've got kittle on one side and use check on the other side like one by one off the hip of the tackle of each tackle they'll motion Juszczyk full speed towards the other side and what they do with that is they're they're starting in a balanced set so the defense can set their strength either way right typically they'll set it to the tight end but um but what the 49ers are doing is they're they're creating that fast motion to create basically an extra gap on the front side

and they'll get to their 21 personnel lead outside zone calls. Like a lot of the times out of that, though, what they'll do is they'll have Kittle and Juszczak double team the end man on the line of scrimmage to the corner and have the wide receiver push crack the first safety in the box there, and they'll toss the ball to the edge. So it's basically a way to run outside zone but kind of force the ball to the edge because you're getting that double team on the end man. You're push cracking the first guy in the box.

So it's just a really well-designed way to get the ball to the edge of an outside zone. And, you know, the defense can't really force a cutback there because, you know, they're getting double teamed at the point of attack. So that's one example. And they do a lot of, lately, the last couple of weeks, they've been doing a great job of kind of countering that motion.

So like when defense is over bump, now they'll run inside zone and like slice Kittle back to block the backside end. Well, now that backside linebacker, he's trying to fit over the top to help with that outside zone toss play. Now if he doesn't fall back into the backside C gap, that backside C cutback is wide open, and that's been the case the last few weeks. They've hit some big run plays off that.

And then in the past game, Nick Mullins has struggled. He's struggled a ton, especially the Cowboys then in the past game you know nick mullins has struggled he's struggled a ton especially the latin cowboys game uh the washington game um so the dropback pass game hasn't been as fun to study as interesting as years you know like last year with jimmy garoppolo but they still they still try to do some stuff week to week to to create to create easy plays easy completions in there but this year it's definitely especially with know, when Garoppolo's been out, they've really focused on the run game on early downs. And they typically, the drop back stuff,

you won't see until third and medium, third and longs. But even so, they've been a fun team to study. You know, when you want to talk about process over results, they do it the right way. And even with all these guys hurt, you know, they're starting quarterback down and Nick Mullins playing some pretty rough football. They've done a good job of attacking defenses week to week. It's just funny that the way you describe them playing with Nick Mullins

is how the Vikings play with Kirk Cousins, and Kirk Cousins is as good as Jimmy Garoppolo, and yet they kind of, you know, limit him and almost kind of say Kirk don't hurt us like you would say with Nick Mullins, which is not what you usually pay for. Right. You turn on the 2019 49ers offense, you know, with Garoppolo full season, and they, you know, first and ten, they're throwing it more.

Second and medium, they're throwing it more. And, you know, they're using some of those choice concepts. They're creating free releases. They're getting the ball out of Garoppolo's hands on the top of his drop with the drop back game. And obviously the play action stuff, too, that's always going to be there. But even the drop back stuff, you know, a full season with drop low, you know, within their pass game, they can get as creative as they are

in run game as far as like creating efficient concepts, efficient ways to get the ball out of his hands. They're one of the best teams to study for that. But obviously, like I said, the last couple months they haven't just because they haven't trusted their quarterback. I don't know if it's so much not trusting their quarterback, but it's just they just haven't done it as much this year. But if you turn on the 2019 tape, like that's what that offense, you know,

operating on all cylinders with a healthy quarterback who's, you know, probably close to the top half. In my opinion, Jimmy Garoppolo is probably, you know, probably a top half quarterback in the league. Yeah. You know, when he's healthy. And, you know, that's what that offense looks like. And like you said earlier, even in the past game,

they're one of the most efficient offenses in football. So, yeah, they're a fun team to study. Hopefully they can get Garoppolo to stay healthy next year because it just makes Falls a lot more enjoyable to study different offenses when he's healthy and that offense is operating at all cylinders. Well, yeah, I mean, and we didn't even get into the motion stuff, which the Vikings started to pick up kind of in the middle of the season, and then it dropped off again as we went along. Maybe again, that was because they were playing

from behind, but I think they also earned playing from behind from being inefficient at times. So, you know, this is a thing that I don't know how much it changes for how Kubiak's going to want things run, how much Zimmer's going to want run, but I also think the Vikings fans are interested in the difference between some of the teams that are at the most modern and where their team is at. So, Bobby Peters, I greatly appreciate you. If you want to learn more about all of this stuff, X's and O's, the 49ers 2019 Offensive Manual, go to Amazon, check it out.

The 2017 Patriots Offensive Manual, you're going to be working on the Packers. If Vikings fans can stomach reading something about how the Packers offense is good, maybe not. So those other ones probably. But, Bobby, you're the best, man. Glad to have you back on the show, and we will do it again, sir. Thanks for having me, Matthew.