Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - McCarthy signs and the 10 most interesting Vikings in camp

Episode Date: July 20, 2024

JJ McCarthy's contract is signed so let's look at Will Ragatz's list of top 10 players he's watching during Vikings training camp Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

🎵 Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. We are back for another porch podcast. Matthew Collar, Will Regetz, the birds, the breeze. It's a beautiful day. And Will, just a few hours before we sat down here on my front porch, J.J. McCarthy signed his contract. So anybody who was going crazy, wondering if the Vikings first round quarterback wasn't going to sign, it was going to hold out and it was going to be a battle of wills between the team and McCarthy's agent. It's not. He signed. It's fine.

We kind of figured it would be that way. Yeah, there's really no precedent to a team not signing a first-round pick, much less a top-10 drafted quarterback. And there's always these minor things in these contracts which have set values of when do you get your signing bonus money, whatever. We're probably never going to find out the exact details of why it took this long and then what eventually happened today where they were able to agree on it. But we said all along it was going to happen as a matter of time.

As of right now, Dallas Turner is one of two unsigned first-round picks. That's going to happen too at some point. Could be later today. Could be next week when they report to camp. Who knows? But, yeah, just one of those things where we need to have a little patience. And now J.J. McCarthy is officially signed with the Minnesota Vikings. I think it really speaks to just the 24-7, 365 nature of football at this moment,

that there's always got to be something in the news cycle. So if there's one player who hasn't signed yet, then that is the news. And then I also think that Vikings fans are very easy to freak out. They've had a lot of things go wrong through their history. So if there's any signal of any player wanting to hold out, doesn't want to play here or whatever, then immediately there's a lot of Vikings fans who will jump to, is this the worst thing ever going to happen? Because sometimes in their past, it kind of has. It's understandable.

It is. It is. But in this instance, this spring and summer, I have felt like half of my job is just to say, it's okay. Justin Jefferson will sign. It's okay. There probably wasn't a trade for Malik neighbors. We can just move forward with

these things. So now we can officially move forward. And Will, I have your, here on my laptop, list of 10 players that are generating the most buzz throughout training camp. So I would like to run through those

10 players generating the most buzz going into training camp with you. That's okay. Yes, this was like I was writing it in the kind of mold of the 10 players I'm most looking forward to seeing. But then we decided that generating the most buzz was a good way to word the headline. So buzz generating players I'm looking looking forward to seeing intrigue, whatever you want to call it. These were 10 players that,

um, I had a list of like 17, 18 that I had to kind of whittle down to 10. Cause there's, there's tons more that are not on this list that I'm excited to watch at camp. But, um, these were the 10 that kind of stood out to me.

And at least to have the McCarthy thing off of the table and all settled allows us to kick the feet up and have a fun training camp conversation because not a whole lot of the conversations over the last two weeks about this football team have been all that fun and energetic and exciting about them. beautiful day on the porch. So why don't we just begin with number 10, which you have as Levi Drake Rodriguez, the Vikings seventh round pick prospect X from the Kalen Kaler article that went through his behind the scenes leading up to the NFL and somebody that the Vikings have talked so excitedly about. Normally I would go, I don't know, we'll seventh round pick, we always do this. But the way that they act anytime his name comes up makes him more interesting. And, of course, his background coming from a school that none of us had ever heard of. Yeah, and if you still wanted to say, I don't know, you're putting the seventh round pick in the top ten, like, I would understand that.

But I kind of wanted to, you know, mix it up a little, throw a couple sleeper guys in there. Maybe some guys that not everybody has heard of if you weren't following the draft super closely this year. With Levi Drake Rodriguez, I mean, obviously part of it is his on-field game. This guy dominated at lower levels of college football, has the kind of burst from an interior defensive lineman that could potentially be a lot of fun. Obviously, he's a seventh round pick. There's a lot of kind of a long shot element here. But the other part of it is just like the dude's personality. When we were talking to him after the draft and you read about his story in the athletic and you learn about just his background and he's just a really energetic personality.

And he's got the long hair and just the unique kind of look to him. So I want to watch him in these one-on-ones against just some of the younger, undrafted interior offensive linemen. And then I just want to kind of hear from him afterwards too and see how he's feeling about this whole training camp experience for the first time. So that was kind of my long shot, dark horse guy to start off the list with. But I think somebody that if he's able to make this team, and I'm sure he'll be around

at least to get in preseason games and things like that, stick around on the practice squad maybe as a rookie, I think Vikings fans will start to like this guy a lot. Shout out to Texas A&M Commerce, the school of Levi Drake Rodriguez. I believe his school before that was the Southwestern Assemblies of God or something. It was an NAIA school. And then he went to a FCS school. And it's really a cool, if you read more about it, it's a cool scouting story for the Vikings because they had this area scout find him and then try to kind of keep it on the hush. They didn't want other teams to find out about him,

and they were able to eventually get their guy in the seventh round. So if he was able to pan out, it would be a pretty cool story. And he was a baseball player at first and then switched over and dedicated everything to football. The whole thing, if he makes it, will go in the annals of great underdog type training camp stories and the and the one last thing i'll say on that is just if there is a position group where it is wide open for a seventh round pick type of guy to emerge it's that defensive tackle which i think we would probably agree is the weakest position group

on this vikings roster you've got harrison phill who is great in his role, but is not a pass rusher. And then you've got an assortment of like Jerry Tillery is kind of a former first round reclamation project. Jaqueline Roy is a second year guy. They signed Jonah Williams from the Rams. It's just a bunch of dudes who haven't really proven a whole lot in the NFL outside of Harrison Phillips. So if you're a guy like Levi Drake Rodriguez, the opportunity is there for you to impress in camp and be potentially see the field in the regular season. I don't want to like project that that's going to happen, but the opportunity is there at a position group.

That's wide open, right? Because you look at Jaqueline Roy last year showed a little bit of flash, but only a little bit and was banged up to some extent. Jerry Tillery is a guy who I am pretty intrigued by because he's a first round draft pick who showed something last year for the Raiders. But we've also seen that type of player show up here and we go, Oh yeah, he's going to fit in this type of role. And then he doesn't make the team.

That's happened before. I agree. It's wide open. He's got a chance there to be somebody for this team. And we know that Brian Flores, it is not a prerequisite to have previous for this team. And we know that Brian Flores, it is not a prerequisite to have previous experience to get on the field and make a difference, but we're also maybe jumping the gun a little bit with him. Let's see how he looks in his first couple of training camp practices with pads on before we go crazy. But one of the best stories. Now your guy, when I have been asked to go on fantasy shows and fantasy podcasts, the next guy on your list, number nine,

this is a name that I always bring up because I think he could be a deep, deep sleeper and actually end up producing for this team if he has a good training camp. That is Robert Tunyon. My question for you, though, is are we doing too much work on Robert Tunyon here? Because after minicamp, when a guy has such a good minicamp and stands out that much and he has a history of playing well before with the Green Bay Packers I don't think we're going too crazy here because the career high receptions for the other two tight ends Johnny Munt and Josh Oliver does not get past 25 yeah and this is a guy with 250 catch seasons

in his past. I don't think we're going too far. It's possible we are because this guy had like 11 catches with the Bears last year. You probably forgot he was perhaps even in the league. A guy who had 11 touchdown receptions from Aaron Rodgers in 2020. But the Vikings needed to kind of keep looking at tight end once they realized that TJ Hawkinson is going to be out for a little bit to start the season. And they like Johnny Munt. I mean, this coaching staff has been with Johnny Munt since his days with the Rams. But, yeah, he's not a guy with a lot of receptions to his name in the NFL. So they bring in Tanyan.

Wes Phillips said that he just kind of wowed them in a workout. Came in, had a great minicamp i mean we were both standing there at otas and this guy's catching 20 yard passes down the seam from nick mullins and darnold or whoever it was and and looking impressive and and he's 30 years old but looked like he still had some juice left in the tank and then just the way wes phillips talked about it um talked about kind of his role like not just being a guy maybe we're going to rely on. Like, it seems like a guy who is absolutely going to make this team and might even be ahead of Johnny Munt to be that number one receiving tight end for as long as Hawkinson's out, because Josh Oliver is going to

play a lot. But even when Hawkinson missed the last two games of last year, Josh Oliver's role didn't really change. It was just Johnny Muntz stepping into the Hawkinson route running role. So Robert Tunyon could be that guy and it would be kind of a cool story if he does to bounce back from kind of a quiet year with the Bears and at least for maybe five weeks before the bye, if that's when Hawkinson's trying to return after the bye, this could be a legitimate part of the Vikings offense. It could and I was looking this up about Robert Tunyon and his usage about where he lined up when he was with the Green Bay Packers, and tell me if this sounds familiar at all. He lined up in the slot in one of his years, 46% of his snaps,

and 37 in 2022 when he had 53 receptions for the Packers. That's exactly what TJ Hawkinson does for this offense where he lines up all over the place and Tunyon is not some sort of world beater when it comes to his speed but he does have much more experience as a route runner as someone who's lined up in the slot than Johnny Munt who has largely been a blocker and last year was his best career year as somebody stepping into a role. I didn't think he did a bad job at the end of the season, but Tunyon could be an improvement on that or he could be someone once again that we talk about before camp and we tell everyone, hey,

keep an eye on this Robert Tunyon and then nothing happens. But I think if you stand out that much immediately in minicamp and this is an offense that really likes that position to be a part of the receiving, and I would guess that they want, when Hockinson comes back, they want that to be seamless for the quarterback, to have it be similar, as opposed to if it's Josh Oliver, it's way different. Just a completely different type of player, and I would say mostly that's the same case with Johnny Muntz as well. Yeah, they want to keep Oliver in that role and not really have to modify their offense very much. Josh Oliver is

one of the best blocking tight ends in the league. He was as advertised in that facet last year his first year with the Vikings and I don't want to sit here and suggest that like a 30 year old Robert Tunyon is going to come in and you know you're to miss a beat going from Hawkinson to him. But the bar to clear being Johnny Munt, who is, I would say, is probably just a replacement level tight end in that role. He's a fine player. I think Tunyon, there's a real chance just based on what we've heard, what we've seen in the spring, that he can clear that bar

and play some real snaps in the first however many weeks of the season that hockinson's out all right number eight on your list a player that i'm not entirely sure is a real person we've heard his name a lot but have we actually seen him that would be jaylen nailer if jaylen nailer's buzz meets Jalen Naylor's performance, they are going to have something really good here. But it's just never gotten there. And I make fun of it, but I do feel for him last year that he had a good minicamp in OTAs, came in, was taking some key reps on the first practice,

and then hurt his calf and we didn't see him forever, finally gets a chance to get some playing time, and then gets popped and goes out with a concussion bad luck injury prone i don't like the injury prone thing because there are players who get injured and then never get hurt again and uh you know sometimes it's just bad luck but if jalen naylor clicks with the talent that he has they can have a more true wide receiver three. If he doesn't, anything behind Jefferson and presumably Addison is just, I don't know. It could be almost anybody if Jalen Naylor's not the guy.

Yeah, the Naylor pick here is about a couple things. It's just having watched him over the last two training camps and off seasons. He's a guy who stands out in practices. And that leads to the buzz of, oh, Jalen Naylor, like he could do some things this year. And I know this is year three for him, so it's almost like, all right, if it doesn't happen this year, I'll stop doing it. I won't do it again next year. But just a guy with a lot of speed,

a lot of kind of natural route running ability, who obviously didn't get a chance to play much as a sixth round rookie, but then caught a touchdown in a blowout loss against Green Bay in week 17, had a few more catches in the meaningless Bears game the next week. And you're like, okay, he's kind of, it's kind of like a mere Smith-Marsets rookie season where he ended strong. And you're like, all right, we're building on that. And then last year, again, another good training camp.

You start to think, could this guy be with Osborne there? He probably wasn't going to be in the wide receiver three mix, but maybe the fourth guy. And then gets hurt and really only had a few catches last year. I think one of his catches last year was from Ryan Wright on a fake punt in the London game, I believe. So this year, year three for Jalen Naylor, if there was a time for him to kind of turn the training camp performances that I'm expecting to see again this year into a potentially real

role in the offense, this would be it because that third spot is more open than it's been. Well, certainly more open than it was last year with KJ Osborne now in New England. So, again, it's about bars to clear for certain players. The bar to clear here is Brandon Powell and Trent Shurfield. And those are both veteran NFL wide receivers who have done some things in the league. But I think if you're projecting upside wise, first of all, Jalen Aylor is bigger than both of those guys. And he's faster than both of those guys, I believe. So there's some exciting things there.

The other thing you have to mention is if Jordan Addison does get suspended, Naylor could be in for an even bigger role in theory early on in the season. Yeah, that's right. And we don't really have any sense at all for if Addison's going to be suspended, when he could be suspended.

The legal process does not work on the NFL timeline exactly. I don't think that California and the state of California is saying, hold everything, put everything on hold. We've got to deal with this so they can know whether he's being suspended or not. That's going to happen when it's going to happen. This reminded me of 2021 in the training camp so i just pulled up here from one will raggett's 53 man projection from july 26th 2021 when training camp started i was looking at the wide receiver position the top two wide receivers

were jefferson and theelin yeah then after that chad bb b B.C. Johnson, Amir Smith-Marset, ahead of K.J. Osborne is how you had him on the roster with the practice squad being Blake Prohl and Wap Fillier and cutting Dan Chesena, who has had a career. We're naming some dudes out here. I know, and Myron Mitchell. Wap Fillier. I don't remember anything about Myron Mitchell.

In my defense, K.J. Osborne did not catch a pass his rookie season. A very credit to him that he then had like 600 yards in 2021 or whatever. But wow. Yeah. Chad Beebe, BC John, what a time that was. The point just being that at this moment,

you had no idea what was going to happen after Justin Jefferson and Adam Thielen. And then what we saw throughout that training camp was kj osborne was clearly the guy for jaylen nailer he has done nothing really on the field outside of a couple of garbage time catches in in 2022 but he could be the kj osborne type that finally has it click in and then we're saying oh yeah we weren't sure if he was even going to make the roster that's the the upside that Jalen Naylor possesses and it's really what they need to happen because even with 2021 we were having the same conversation on whatever podcast you and I were doing who's going to be wide receiver three can you really trust Chad Beebe and BC Johnson and

so forth and then they need someone to emerge. K.J. Osborne actually emerged. If they get that out of Jalen Naylor, then we'll feel good about this group. If they don't, we're going to be saying it is so unbelievably top-heavy unless just Sean Jones or Trent Shurfield or someone random pops up. As you've mentioned, I just want to reiterate, each of these first three guys uh levi drake rodriguez robert tunyon jaylen nailer they could be something they could be absolutely nothing this year and that to me is part of the intrigue of watching them starting in training

camp i think that's what makes camp what makes camp is going into it going maybe maybe ivan pace jr can be something and then he becomes a lot uh let's move to maybe some more established football players though on your list number seven is Andrew Van Ginkle so this is a guy with a very big sample size of playing in the NFL and a lot of success a great year last year for Dolphins. What has you so intrigued by Mr. Van Ginkle? It is primarily the versatility that he brings. This is a guy who has experience with Brian Flores. He played under him in Miami briefly. And just, it reminds me a bit of kind of Josh Metellus last year, where Brian Flores loves dudes who can do a bunch of different things and do them well and just be kind of a chess piece. Because this guy is always scheming up complex blitzes, simulated pressures, things that look like each other and then turn into something else. And Van Ginkle is a great piece to do that because he can rush the passer as a traditional edge rusher.

He can drop into coverage and hang with tight ends and running backs and even slot receivers. He can play run defense and come downhill and do that, get off blocks. I mean, this guy had a 91 PFF grade last year, which whatever you want to say about PFF, you're doing something right if in a full season sample size, you're earning a 91 overall PFF grade. So I don't think he's going to replicate that this year. There's always some kind of fluctuation with those things, unless you're one of the game's truly elite players. But I'm just very curious, starting in training camp, and this is assuming that he's good to go with kind of a lingering foot injury he's been dealing

with, just to see him moving all over the formation the way we watched Josh Metellus do last year and see him rush in the pass, see him drop into coverage, see his long blonde hair flowing in the wind, and just all the different things that Brian Flores is going to do with him. We'll start to see that in camp as they're going 7-on-7 and 11-on-11 with the ones. Yeah, I didn't consider the great aesthetic that goes along with playing for the Minnesota Vikings and then having the hair coming out of the back. That's pretty good. If Andrew Van Ginkle, Jonathan Grenard, and Blake Cashman play the same way they did last year,

this defense will be elite. Because all three of these guys were three of the best players at their position built into all of our analysis is some regression they signed them at the top of their market their career years blake cashman had never had a season like he had last year and van ginkle had always been good but not to that level so i expect him to go backward a little bit from putting up the type of numbers that he did last season but your point about how they manage dallas turner grenard van ginkle i think renard is a pretty static player i think he's going to be in the same spot all the time rushing

off the right edge that's where he was in houston he wasn't really a move around guy we just kind of assume every player for the vikings will be but i don't think he will be. Van Ginkle though, when I looked at his past usage, it's actually pretty funny because one year he's entirely on the right side. Another year he's entirely on the left side. And then another year he's half on the right, half on the left. And his dropbacks and coverage versus blitzes has fluctuated throughout the years, but he's been successful really in all areas of that. So even just getting hints of how does this guy fit in and what kind of impact could he have, because this is not a player they had last year, not by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, Flores was working with a bunch of guys who had limitations with,

well, DJ Wanham can really only do one thing. Patrick Jones, even Daniil Hunter is kind of limited to one thing. Occasionally they would bump him inside, but outside of someone like Metellus, he was trying to work different roles into guys that really can only do one thing. Van Ginkle can do a lot. Yeah, that's the – I think it's always – when you have a defensive coordinator like a Brian Flores,

year one, I mean, he was hired early enough to maybe help with some sort of kind of personnel stuff. But year two is when you start to really build the thing in your vision and you're getting pieces who will fit your scheme, not trying to fit your scheme to pieces who are already there. And you consider that Bernard is basically the Hunter replacement, which makes Van Ginkle, in a sense, the DJ Wanham replacement. And DJ Wanham had a good year last year.

He earned a nice contract from his hometown Panthers this year. But Van Ginkle is a lot more versatile, and I just think it's a lot more of a sensible fit for what Brian Flores wants to do. So that should be fun to watch, and it should be fun because there's going to be times on passing downs where Grenard, Van Ginkle, and Dallas Turner are all on the field at once. And one of those guys may be lining up over the interior or whatever it is, one of them dropping back a little bit. But that trio, they're all going to play.

I think Van Ginkle is certainly a starter, if we're penciling it in right now over Turner, but they didn't draft Dallas Turner in the top 20 to not play him quite a bit this year. What's your over under for snaps? I kind of set mine yesterday on the show. For Dallas Turner? For Dallas Turner. Off the top of my head, 500. Yeah, that's where I put it 450 to 500 yeah okay i think that's about where i would put it as well i don't know as of right now if i'd go over under that mark but it's gonna be fun to i think it's gonna be right around there if everybody remains healthy but baked into that is the idea that everyone probably won't yeah so he will have games where he has to take 50 snaps

or something like that the depth at this position so I haven't scrolled down on your list to see if any of these other players are on it, but the depth at this position has a bunch of unproven players outside of Patrick Jones and Jahad Ward, and he's proven to not be that effective throughout his career. Gabriel Murphy, Owen Porter. Gabriel Murphy was in my initial list of 18 and was in the mix for the 10 spot. Just because he was so productive at UCLA last year.

And there's so many similarities to the Ivan Pace thing from last year. Where the numbers and the film and all that are absolutely fourth round grade. The consensus board, the analysts all thought he's a fourth round pick. And then he goes undrafted because he has very very very short arms for uh i relate to that an nfl edge rusher he's got kind of he's got kind of the t-rex arms a little bit but pace proved last year and it's a different position um that being really good at football can sometimes outweigh size limitations and I think there's a chance that Gabriel Murphy can do that as well the arms on as an edge rusher is maybe even more concerning than being a 5'10 middle linebacker but the guy is a very good football player and again talking

about bars to clear like could he pass Pat Jones and and jihad ward and andre carter and be right in the mix for the fourth guy at that position it wouldn't shock me also the other two i would not entirely forget about owen porter and beau richter i have mentioned beau richter as being a guy that i have an eye on because air force guy right air force and his relative athletic score which sort of weighs combine performance or pro day performance and puts it in a percentile was I think 99th percentile. So this is a total freak athlete who had huge numbers last year and Porter put up enormous numbers at Marshall, but maybe not the toughest competition, but really dominated it. That whole position behind the top three guys,

do they actually have depth there or not is really the question that we're trying to answer. I love training camp in the out because there's 90 dudes on the roster and they all have something slightly interesting about them and and a theoretical you can make a case for this is interesting and that's why i mean you don't sign dudes as undrafted for agents to just not have a chance so i'm excited to watch all these dudes. Well, that's why I like to tell the Najee Thompson story of Andrew and Dane making fun of me for suggesting to somebody's intern that they should interview Najee Thompson. And they said, what? That guy's not going to make the roster. Wrong. You never know who's going to make the roster. But a guy already on the roster is number six on your list, which is Ivan Pace Jr.

Now, this one would not have made my list, but maybe that's an overreaction to one year that was good. And then I just move on in my brain to, okay, that player's good. Let's focus on other players that we don't know about. But what is interesting to you about Ivan Pace Jr.? What's interesting to me is just, yeah, it's kind of not, like you said, not moving on from how cool that story was last year, that this 5'10", 230-pound linebacker who just tore it up at Miami, Ohio and Cincinnati gets undrafted. And last year, basically, it was early on. I think we saw signs in the spring, but it was early on in training camp that we're like, oh yeah, this guy

is a real deal. He's a very good football player. And then in the preseason, he was super impressive and he just kept it going. And he played a bunch of snaps last year and he was almost a dark horse, rookie of the year type of guy defensively um and so i'm just excited to see what he has in store for year two because i think yeah you you can't necessarily just pencil him in to be the same player and to replicate that there's there's something that comes in in year two with every every player whether they run drafted or first round pick and they had a good rookie year, can they sustain that? Can they elevate that even?

Or is there going to be some sort of regression, sophomore slump type of thing? And I think teams will not forget about Ivan Pace at all this year. They will, they're going to identify him and try to figure out ways to throw off what he does well. So I'm, I'm curious to see what he has for year two. Because if he can just replicate what he did last year, he's going to be a hugely important player for Brian Flores. If he can somehow even continue to grow and become even more impactful,

I mean, him next to Blake Ashman in the middle of that defense, it would just be something to watch. Part of it is just like, you'll see another dude later on who, spoiler alert, Justin Jefferson's in there. It's just I like watching really good football players. They're fun to watch dudes in a

game setting, but also in a practice setting where you're going to see Ivan Pace just flying around the field at training camp and making things happen. It's just, it was really fun to watch last year, and I'm anticipating it'll be fun to watch this year. Thank you for ruining the list for me. I haven't read the whole thing yet. I would have...

You could probably guess who's number one, too. I think I can guess who number one is. But you have to stay for the whole video slash audio podcast just to see. Because it's really between two guys, and I'm interested to see how you rank them two and one. But as far as pace goes in the linebacker situation, I would have replaced Ivan Pace with Blake Cashman here because Cashman was such a breakout player last year,

but had never really done that before, had battled through injuries. His upside is extremely high and higher than someone like jordan hicks where jordan hicks was a respectable veteran but had his limitations at his age and with his injury history he worked really well with a young player and in ivan pace but was he the best in coverage not really so there were only so many things they could do with him whereas blake cashman you can't have a more versatile role for him. He can drop back in coverage more. And with Pace, maybe the main thing is,

are you taking over the leadership role on this entire defense? Because right now, if you were to say, all right, who's the guy on this defense? You would still say Harrison Smith because he's been around so long, he's got a chance to go to the Hall of Fame someday. I think I'd say Josh Metellus. Josh Metellus makes sense, but he's still a one-year guy yeah uh and pace is a one-year guy from last year as well one of those two but i think pace has a chance to establish himself especially if he gets the green dot and play calling then even more so uh next one though i would definitely

have on my list as well which which is Makai Blackman. Makai Blackman had a season last year that I don't think we paid a lot of attention to. We didn't talk a lot about, oh yeah, Makai Blackman's emerging as this interesting player. He was for me when we got to the end of the season and I went through all the numbers and everything and went, oh, you know what? Wow. Makai Blackman was graded as the best tackling corner in football last year by PFF. He missed zero tackles, which immediately catches your eye and makes people think of Antoine Winfield and senior.

And then the fact that he only gave up an 87 quarterback rating on throws into his coverage, one of which turned into a memorable touchdown against him. But aside from that, he also had a lot of pass breakups. And his MO coming out of college was that he could make plays on the football. He was a very natural football player. We saw that from last year. We saw the toughness that they liked, and we saw his ability to make plays on the football that they liked coming out.

He has a chance to change the narrative on the cornerback group because I would say the cornerback group, you mentioned defensive tackle. I might even go corner is the weakest group because at least Harrison Phillips we know is a pretty good player. At corner, I don't even know if they have a Harrison Phillips level player. You wouldn't put Byron Murphy there? I guess I would, but even then, he comes over here on a relatively short contract that's not that expensive.

I mean, I'm not saying he's not okay, but it's the same kind of, hey, you're a starter in the league, but you don't really elevate your team as Harrison Phillips. To go to that, kind of get sidetracked for a second, the reason I would say the Vikings' cornerback room is stronger than their defensive tackle room is I've got Byron Murphy and Harrison Phillips in my mind on similar levels, and then Shaq Griffin to me is more of a high floor than Jerry Tillery,

if you're talking about the guys they brought in this year. Shaq Griffin has proven that he's fine as a starting caliber corner and nothing more than that. I think so, at least from what I've read and seen about him. And he's, I mean, there's 30 dudes who could be on here. Shaq Griffin could be on this list. But Makai Blackman, to me, is very interesting because it's another year two guy where he didn't have an Ivan Pace level season last year. He showed flashes of being sticky in coverage, of making plays on the ball, of playing bigger than his size, which are all things the Vikings liked about him coming out of USC.

But then there were some inconsistent moments. I think if you're a casual, fairly casual Vikings fan, the one thing you might remember Makai Blackman for last year was standing and watching while T. Higgins extended the ball over the goal line for a touchdown. Because he thought that Evans had picked it off. He thought that it was out of bounds or Evans had got it or something. Yeah, I think he was making the incomplete sign with his hands and then could have broken it up. I also thought that that was going out of bounds. It's not like a massive brain fart, but you do have to, you have to play through the,

play through the whistle in that situation. So I think Makai Blackman is kind of a slightly underrated guy as a third round pick going into year two, who has an opportunity to really kind of take another step and put it together and, and be right in that mix to be in the, if not the top three, maybe the top two corners on this roster. With Shaq Griffin, I got to see it a little more from him because he played for two teams last year.

That his team that was very, very good at competing for a Super Bowl cut him in the middle of the season. That always makes you go, okay, what happened there? What's going on there? And even when I asked people who follow the Texans, they sort of just said they had better guys, which is not really what you want to hear when you're saying this player is going to be a starter. And I want to see if there becomes a battle at this spot between Shaq Griffin and Caleb Evans, who was good for the first 15 weeks last year. And then unbelievably bad over the last three weeks of,

of last season. Is there a battle there? Is there not? Is Andrew Booth Jr. In this conversation at all? It doesn't seem like it, but sometimes those things change. It didn't seem like it.

When I arrived, everyone told me that Trey Wayne's man, this guy's a big bust. And he played real well uh through 2016 through 2017 so we'll see on that group but blackman is someone that they should be after his small sample size performance last year excited about the potential of a solid starter the next guy they're excited about potential that goes way beyond solid starter all the way up to potential superstar number four on your list dallas turner he is someone that this is fun because when you read it to me i'm like i don't remember i don't remember who i put

in this spot this was like a few days ago but i don't remember the exact so we're both surprised except for the one that you ruined so you've really ruined the entire bottom three now that you mentioned jefferson is here we know who one and two are uh but dallas turner on draft night a lot of criticism for the pick and how much they spent to get dallas turner yeah it wasn't i don't think it was criticism for who they picked but how much they gave up how they got there and the the amount that they spent to get dallas Dallas Turner but the actual player was a consensus top 10 player coming out incredibly productive and then when you see him I think we talked about this after minicamp you just go this guy moves totally different his explosiveness his fluidity this is a player that I think we probably even have unfair expectations are so high

for him coming in based on his draft status. And yet one of the more interesting players in a normal season, if there wasn't a quarterback thing going on, we would be putting him number one and saying, Hey, this new edge rusher they got, he is the guy to watch in training camp. Oh yeah. I mean, I think even last year maybe, Dallas Turner would be number one on this list in another Kirk Cousins year, because just, yeah, the size, the athleticism, the things you see when you watch his film, you see his highlights, you see, I mean, he was 18 years old when he got to Alabama as a true freshman and played at an extremely high level in the SEC.

Last year, 10 sacks, one of the best players in the country. And just, I think it's, you can talk all day about what they gave up to get him, and that is absolutely fair. That's a process thing that you can criticize but i think it has to be baked in a little bit that he's not a normal number 17 overall pick this guy is a guy who the consensus was he was probably going number eight to atlanta until they lost their minds and took michael pennix um so or did they or didn't, or maybe made a super savvy genius move that we'll see four years from now, lose their mind like a Fox when Kirk cousins rips the other Achilles in week

10 or that, or that, um, I just, yeah, Dallas Turner to me, this maybe is unfair, but he has the tools to become an elite address during the NFL. I don't know if that's going to happen. Um, there are all kinds of factors that will determine that, but he's got the prototypical build and size and ability and just kind of that look to him when you watch him. So I'm excited to, to see him in training camp for sure. I am too.

I want to see where he lines up because he did a lot of different things for Nick Saban. I know it feels like we're saying that all the time about these players, that is the MO of Brian Flores it's what he does and when I went back and watched him against Georgia and he went up against their guy that was drafted first round Mims their tackle a number of times Mims is I don't know is he like six seven three hundred and sixty pounds yeah this is a hundred-pound difference, and yet the leverage, the power that Dallas Turner used to push him back, get by him, create pressures, think he had a sack in the game,

stop the run against someone that big and that talented to go in the first round. This is different from what you would normally see, and it is setting the bar way too high to start saying it kind of looks like a Vaughn Miller type to me because Vaughn Miller's one of the best to ever do it but he has all those boxes that you check of the natural athleticism where you could see him playing wide receiver or tight end if you needed him to and then the fact that he had production at the highest level against the hardest competition that you can have there really isn't any reason i think dallas turner dropped in the draft outside of just it was a strange year where offense went 14 straight offensive players which just never happens and six

quarterbacks which has also never happened so if you're the 17th overall pick but there's six quarterbacks it's more like being the 11th pick. In some way, yeah. You understand what I'm saying. Yeah. Maybe we'll find out whatever the reason was that he wasn't picked a little bit higher as we go along. The thing with Turner, I mean, they want to continue working with him, and they're going to, on refining his skill set

and adding counter moves and pass rush moves, and that'll be a lot of the coaching that has already started happening and will continue to happen in training camp. But one thing he has right now is he can go speed to power on you and put his hand in your chest as a tackle and move you and get around you. He just has that natural athleticism and ability. So as he continues to refine that and improve, and again, we said maybe

400, 500 snaps this year feels realistic. The future, I think, is very bright. The dude's 21 years old. Right. So going to be fun to watch him play. Over under for sacks for Dallas Turt? I think like

four and a half? Five and a half? I was thinking about six. half, five and a half. I was thinking about six. Yeah, maybe a little higher. Might be in that range. 500 snaps, five and a half sacks. And he'll probably be playing on a lot of passing downs, which I think rookie DJ Wanham had eight sacks or something,

maybe second year DJ Wanham. All against Chicago. All against the Bears, and a lot of them were cleanup sacks but yeah if you're playing uh in a lot of passing downs that gives you more more opportunity and if teams are focusing on jonathan grenard and andrew van ginkle and and ivan pace jr and guys like that then yeah there could be some opportunities here so i don't have a lot to say about your number three since you ruined it it's justin jefferson just if you're getting a chance to go out there and sit in the stands and watch them practice there isn't anything like watching this guy there

really isn't it is one of those things where when we stand on the sideline and we get a fairly close look at how he runs his routes how he makes his catches the way he competed in camp last year which was amazing to see with someone who was having contract discussions that he didn't take any reps off and seemed to take it personal against Tennessee and Arizona when they went up against them. It's rare, this type of talent, that you'll ever see it in your life that close. So every opportunity to watch it is great yeah it's really fun yeah if you're thinking about uh going out to training camp for the first time this year i would say that's one of the

selling points obviously the watching the these quarterbacks is another one but just to watch don't spoil the top and in person that's the entire explanation i put in the in the little blurb of that one is just you're watching greatness up close. There's no intrigue like who's Justin Jefferson going to be this year? Like we know who he is. It's just watching greatness and just the unbelievable route running and the technique and the refinement that he plays with and the explosiveness. And then kind of the subplot to that is he's got the new contract. He's got more of a leadership role that I think he knows he has to take on and the Vikings want him to take on.

Kirk Cousins is gone. He's the guy clearly on this offense if he wasn't already. So, yeah, watch number 18 do what he does and it's pretty cool but there is something to it with the chemistry with the quarterbacks and if he's taking if it is sam darnold first team reps all the way through training camp what is the chemistry between them look like because we haven't asked this question in years with him and kirk cousins it's just been so established they were very much on the same page I don't remember any time during any training camp over the last few years that

Jefferson was frustrated with Cousins or anything like that during camp they clicked in very early on and never had any real problems after that aside for maybe a handful of times where I think Jefferson wanted the ball and didn't get it. Maybe a fourth and eight that got checked down or something like that from time to time. But Sam Darnold, when he was in Carolina, did target the heck out of his one good wide receiver he ever played with, which was DJ Moore. So I don't doubt that he's going to throw the ball toward Jefferson. Is it accurate? Is it on time? Are they mastering the offense the same way that kirk cousins last year in training camp had it locked in those are all things that we are not sure of yet it's a good point i think part of the leadership role for jefferson will be not kind of publicly showing frustration if if sam

darnold misses you and and sam darnold is not kirk cousins and we know that and i think justin jefferson knows that and he's just you got to be a team player to a degree and try to help him out as best you can and um i think he'll be able to do that there was a throw in mini camp it was just in warm-ups but darnold threw it behind jefferson and he reached up with one hand and just snatched it way behind his head and then just pulled it in and casually jogged. Yeah, Sam Darnold throwing to him instead of Kirk Cousins might lead to more spectacular catches because it won't be right there sometimes. I was just thinking what must have been going through Sam Darnold's head. Ain't seen that before. Even with DJ Moore, good player.

We all respect DJ Moore. Ain't seen that before. All right, number two and number one, there is a debate here of which quarterback should be number two and which quarterback should be number one you have darnold two and mccarthy one i will attempt to make the opposite argument even though i generally agree with you the rookie the draft pick talk me into the the talk me into here for darnold is number one is that darnold is qbB one and Darnold at this moment has a very high chance to be QB one to start the season. So every single day of training camp could end up being about Sam Darnold and how the offense is actually going to look this year,

right here, right now, as opposed to, Hey, is JJccarthy any good of course we'll be watching it but it's more pertinent at this moment for this season or could be how sam darnold ends up playing also can sam darnold hold off the rookie or it does this become a real competition because he doesn't look good enough in training camp but if he looks the way that he looked in minicamp versus mccarthy if it's similar to that then we're barely even talking about jj mccarthy by the end of training camp and what it means to this season i that is a good talk me into argument right there i am absolutely very intrigued to watch sam donald this year that's why he's number two on the list he's the starting quarterback as of this very moment and i expect that to be true for probably all of training camp if not or at least most of training camp um and the whole

like can he have a baker mayfield geno smith type of resurgent year as a former top pick playing in the best situation that he's ever been in. Great coaches, Justin Jefferson, other great options on his offense, great tackles. I think it's a great story. I really enjoyed hearing from Sam Darnold back in OTAs and hearing him candidly talk about his career up to this point and why he's so excited about this opportunity. The reason J.J. McCarthy is number one just comes down to the Vikings not being a Super Bowl contender this year. If they were, maybe Donald's number one,

because this year would have that much importance. This year is obviously important, and who knows what can happen, but realistically, this year is about setting things up for the future, and J.J. McCarthy is the highest drafted quarterback in franchise history. He is going to be, if he's good enough, the guy for quite some time. So to me, it wasn't even a huge debate in my mind. He has to be number one because it's all about, is he taking the steps to be the guy at some point this year, but more importantly next year and in 2026 and just moving forward on his rookie deal? So they're both going to be scrutinized over every throw and we're going to be watching them super closely,

but McCarthy takes the number one spot of the intrigue and the player I'm most excited to watch this year because of what it would mean to the franchise if he i'm most excited to watch this year because of what it would mean to the franchise if he's who they think he is i gave it a shot but you're right you're you're right and mccarthy is the number one i don't think that there really is a debate over that because if he wins the job in the best possible outcome then we are going to leave training camp going hey he had to clear a high bar to win that job. A high bar from his head coach, a high bar from a player who has had his

moments and is extremely talented already and is established in the NFL in Sam Darnold and someone that they brought in thinking he was going to start. And hey, McCarthy stole the job from him to start. That would be maybe the best situation the vikings could dream of but if it's not then where are we evaluating him as being at when it ends how does he look during preseason because he should be playing a lot during the preseason those are going to be the highest rate of preseason games in the o'connell era like by far maybe the highest in many many years for the v the Vikings on the local TV networks because you actually have a first-round pick starting at quarterback,

and we just haven't seen that. So, I mean, to actually go to the stadium for a preseason game and not be thinking, oh, man, three hours of something that I got to watch. You know, how do I come up with takeaways? Well, if J.J. McCarthy's playing, that's all the takeaways right there handed to you, which makes for the most intrigue. And if he struggles, it's interesting as well, because how much weight do we put on it if he struggles?

If he starts the season not as the backup quarterback and it's Nick Mullins, what are we going to say about it? How are we going to feel about it? The range of outcomes seems so extreme here, from J.J. McCarthy starting 17 games to J.J. McCarthy is not even active on game day. Both of those things are very possible coming out of training camp. So extremely, extremely interesting, and by far the most intriguing Vikings camp in a very long time.

In a long time. And I've said before that I think if he's not starting, then he's QB3 because they don't want him to be one injury away from being thrust in there in the middle of a game. Because it comes down to, it is about clearing the Darnold bar, but it's just more about J.J. McCarthy proving to this coaching staff that he's ready, that he's at the place in his development where he's ready to go out there and you are not rushing him and you're not going to ruin his development or alter it in any way by putting him out there before he's ready,

which probably happened to Sam Darnold when he was playing for the New York Jets a while ago. So yeah, the range of outcomes with McCarthy is fascinating. The arm talent that we saw, just the zip that the ball leaves his hand with, it's going to lead to some, I think, pretty cool moments in training camp. And then there's going to be other moments where it's like, all right, that's part of the learning curve. And this guy's a rookie and he's young.

So, yeah, fascinated to see if maybe even early in training camp, if it looks any different from what it did in OTAs, but then if it looks any different on day 15 of training camp than it did on day one. And then obviously the preseason is going to be fascinating as well, but yeah, excited to, to get back out to TCO next week.

I hope we have this weather where it's like 78 and breezy and not 91 without a cloud in the sky, like it sometimes is, but we'll see the bucket hat and the sunscreen. We'll be ready to go. I was going to say our fair skin does not fare well out at TCO performance center where we don't have a whole lot of shade. I did bring it up to a high ranking Viking executive that we don't have any shade.

And he seemed to take that very seriously. So I expect that we're going to probably not, probably not. We'll be okay. We'll survive. But I do want to scrutinize your list just a little. There's one player that's missing. Okay. That I think is a huge mistake.

Huge mistake to leave this player off. Do you know who I'm talking about? Offensive defense. I can't tell you. Okay. I don't think I know. That's the hint. Kicker? Will Riker. Oh, the kicker. Will Riker. The kicker. Come on't think I know. That's the hint. Kicker?

Will Riker. Oh, the kicker. Will Riker. The kicker. Come on. The kicker. A kick in competition with a draft pick who is the highest scoring player ever in Alabama? He's making my list.

I'm putting him ahead of the defensive tackle on the seventh. You know what? That's fair. Honestly, he wasn't even on my initial list, but that's just an oversight by me. I think I was like, all right, offense, defense. These fans want to know about the kicker. No, the kicker is important.

And the cool thing about training camp is, you know, the kickers, they either make it or they don't. Oh, right. Yeah. They're the easiest position for us to evaluate. You can see, like, are they making it by? Like, would it be good from 10 yards further or whatever? Like, how far is it traveling off their leg?

But we will be watching some kicking competition with Will Reichert and John Parker Romo, I believe is his name. I think it's one of the most asked questions this offseason to mailbags and fan chats has been, do the Vikings finally have their kicker? And we will maybe have somewhat of an answer after i guess with uh will reichert after preseason although when there's a punting competition oh yeah there is yeah i'm a little vernon ryan wright less intrigued by that that that is harder to figure out because you're going like wait that was 50 something but there's a

certain trajectory that you're supposed to i guess we'll see if that actually is a competition but uh thanks again will for coming over yeah hanging out on the porch another great porch podcast beautiful weather nice breeze if we didn't live in minnesota this would just be the studio all the time yeah but we do so it's not uh thanks everybody for watching slash listening will uh is going to be a huge part, of course, of our coverage throughout training camp at TCO Performance Center. So I really look forward to that, man. Yeah, me too.

All right. Football. Football.