Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Mike Zimmer's latest adjustment comes off the field

Episode Date: September 2, 2020

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Did you think, go back six weeks before these training camps started and everything else, when we weren't even sure when camps were going to start, did you think we would be here with zero COVID outbreaks, looking at not even that many? I mean, what are we, two weeks away or less now from the start of the NFL season for the Vikings and even closer for the Houston Texans and the Kansas City Chiefs? I mean, this is beyond best-case scenario for the NFL with the way that they've handled COVID. Yeah, I'm surprised by it.

I always kind of felt like COVID or no COVID, the NFL was going to try and force a square peg into a round hole because that's just kind of how the league operates. It's, damn it, we're going to play our football. We're going to get our games in at all costs by any means necessary. But the fact that there have not been any outbreaks has been really, really impressive. And when you think about the game of football,

it's like the ultimate candidate to have all of these outbreaks because it's a physical game. Guys are touching each other and hitting each other and they're sweating and all of these things are going on. It's been really impressive that we have not seen an outbreak yet. I think what it comes down to is that players have taken it seriously in their off-field lives, that they have quarantined themselves. And I think this goes for all of us, that if you want to avoid getting it

and getting other people in your life sick, then you have to make some sacrifices with things that you would normally do. And you have to wear a mask wherever you go. I mean, for me personally, I've played golf, which has seemed to be proven pretty safe to go outside and golf, that you can distance away from whoever you're playing with. And I've gone to the grocery store, and that's about it for hobbies over the last couple of months.

And then I've spent a lot of time sitting at this computer and doing Purple Insider things. But I think that the message got across really well to players. If you want to get paid, if you want to have your season, then you better follow all the protocols. And the fact that the NFL took it seriously enough to convince their coaches to really push the players. Mike Zimmer said he's been doing it in meetings. We saw it on Hard Knocks with Sean McVay pushing it in meetings. Like if you guys want to win football games,

if you guys want to get paid, then you have to take this seriously. And we'll see throughout the season if that continues. But I think that they got the message and have done a really good job of that, that Major League Baseball was a little lax at the beginning, and it cost them and it took them a lot longer to get around to the point where they had no positive tests. But the NFL took the lessons that they learned from Major League Baseball and have just done about as well as you ever could have dreamed at this point. I think there's only one player on the COVID list at this moment, which, again, I would not have predicted six weeks ago. Yeah, and I think one of the things that I was really concerned about going into this was, you know, certainly the safety and the health of the players. But I was thinking about these coaches, too.

So many of these coaches, we talk about COVID-19 and how, you know, if you're over the age of 60, over the age of 65, you're just at a higher risk. You think about guys like Bill Belichick, who is in his late 60s, Pete Carroll in his late 60s, guys like Bruce Arians, you know, our guy here, Mike Zimmer, who's getting up there into his mid-60s as well, you worry about how this was going to affect those guys and their health as well. And I just continue to be really impressed that the NFL has, that they've taken this thing really seriously. And, you know, because that's always sort of the question that we have about the NFL

is that they always seem to be, you know, a step behind in terms of taking care of the things that they necessarily need to take care of. But this one, they've hit a home run so far. They've done a great job. Yeah, and I accused them earlier in this offseason because it just didn't seem like they were up to par where they needed to be. I accused them of trying to out-football the virus, and it turns out that's what college football is doing and not the NFL. But college football was exactly my fear about what the NFL would be, where they were just going to say, oh, we'll play, and if all the offensive linemen get it, we'll put tight ends in there, next man up, whatever.

And they really did put their money where their mouth is here, and it's paid off big time for them to be able to play. And somebody left a comment on the Purple Insider website today just saying, or maybe it was on Twitter, saying, look, if they go 8-8 this year, that's all right, we got football. I mean, it's just the whole world, I think, can take a little bit of a different attitude. I'm sure this will change when Aaron Rodgers throws his first touchdown against the Vikings, but just towards sports. Like, okay, maybe there are a lot more things to be concerned about and we can just enjoy this together. That's my hope,

at least. Manny, I wanted to talk to you specifically about the matters in which have sort of rocked sports recently with the Milwaukee Bucks deciding to sit out a game and then NFL teams sitting out practices. And now Jim Trotter was reporting that there's even a possibility some teams decide to boycott maybe even week one or NFL games. And I just wonder what your opinion on that is, because I think that teams showing their ownerships, if they're not going to come along, that there are going to be consequences for owners,

is an important next step in all of this in getting actual social change for a lot of the issues that the Vikings have discussed and the reason that the Vikings don't have to skip practices or exert their power is because their ownership is coming along with them and their head coach and their general manager are coming along with them every step of the way and I think that that's an interesting dichotomy that's developing in the NFL teams that have ownerships that are supporting their players and teams that have ownerships that are trying to take, you know, half measures or pat them on the head or not support them at all. And the Vikings, I think, are very much on the right side of this. Yeah, absolutely. And I think when you look at this situation, you know, normally when we think about, you know, if there's like a lockout or if

there's a strike or something like that, you know, the topic of like replacement players comes up and things like that. But I think in a situation like this, when we're talking about social justice and social change, you know, it's really time for these owners to just get with the program. I mean, it's 2020. You go back three, four years when Colin Kaepernick first took a knee during the National Anthem, and you fast forward now four years to 2020. It's just time for everybody to stop, you know, thinking about their old way of thinking and thinking about their bottom line

all the time and start thinking about doing the right thing. You know, obviously you mentioned the Vikings and their front office and their ownership and Coach Zimmer and Coach Patterson that, you know, those guys coming together and looking at themselves in the mirror and saying, okay, how much do we really care about our players and what our players are dealing with on a day-to-day basis? We know that this league is, what is it, 70% African-American, roughly something along those lines.

I mean, that's a lot of players, you know, when you think about how many players are in the NFL. And it's just time for, you know, these guys to not have the excuse of just being, well, we're, you know, we're these old guys and, you know, we're just these owners and, you know, we're kind of stuck in our ways. It's like, okay, you can't be stuck in your ways anymore. It's 2020.

And it's nice to see that the Vikings are taking that step and the Wilfs and Coach Zimmer and everything. And you just hope that the rest of the league continues to follow that path as well because you know i'm tired of having these conversations about team owners not really being connected with the players that that they have i mean it's it's it this stuff is exhausting caller i mean it really is you and i we've known each other for uh about four years now. And, you know, we had a lot of off air conversations about these type of things.

And eventually at some point you just get tired of hearing the same regurgitated old school, you know, straw man arguments that a lot of these people are making. That's why the Drew Brees thing just hit such a nerve with me with what he said and you know and obviously we've we've moved past that and everything but when he said that it was just like gosh man like you're it's like you're still thinking that after four years of so many different conversations about it and you, you know, it's just time. It's just time because I'm tired of having to have the same conversations that I had in 2016. You know what I mean? It's time to have new conversations about how we move forward now. It's time to put a lot of those old school thoughts and ideas behind us.

And I think, Manny, that you touch on a lot of important things there. But just the last thing you said, the Vikings talking about actionable change is the next step from addressing the problem and knowing it is a problem, which maybe, I I think we all know by now. And a lot of us who listened to Colin Kaepernick on the first day knew it at that point. But, you know, these things get muddied by news networks that are on for 24 hours that want to have debates. We're going to have this guy and this guy yell at each other over what's going on on ESPN. And that's also a place where a message and the nuance can get lost to a lot of different things. Should he kneel? Should he not kneel? Like, wait, we're not even talking about what he was actually trying to, you know, send a message about. I also think that there's an important

point here about the players and knowing their own worth and knowing their own power, because I think that the reason Colin Kaepernick was colluded against was not because he kneeled. It was really because he could organize, because he showed the amount of power that he had. And if you're into history and you check on somebody like Fred Hampton or even Martin Luther King, like I don't think it was because Martin Luther King wanted people to vote. I think it was because he was able to organize people that he scared a lot of those in power. And I think the same existed with Colin Kaepernick. And now what owners are having to recognize is these players are organizing already now.

And they're showing you in the NBA, owners, that message was to owners. It wasn't just to the Milwaukee police or the Kenosha police. It was to the owners. It was, we can do this. We have this tool in our box that we are willing to pull out and use if we have to, to get you on board. Drew Brees, Mike Zimmer are two good examples of people who clearly had their head in the sand when it came to these things, that had not talked to their players or their teammates, that had not even talked. I mean, Mike Zimmer just found out Andre Patterson had been pulled over and had guns drawn on him for not doing anything. It's like, Mike, you've been friends with the guy for 30 years. But Joe, I really do believe that a lot of pro athletes and a lot of head coaches and things like that are so narrowly focused on football, football, football, football,

that maybe you didn't look into any of this. I could see it. But the fact that Zimmer has taken the time to be on these Zoom calls and have two-hour meetings with his players and been pushed by his players to do this as well and to support them and to say, hey, you know what happened to Andre Patterson? That's wrong. And to say, I don't care what political party you belong to, that's not right.

And the same thing with a lot of these other actionable type of things for the Vikings where they're saying we want people to vote. Does anybody out there listening want people to vote. Does anybody out there listening not want to vote? These things, I think that what they're doing is in a very intelligent way that is not just yelling, hey, we're being wronged here, because then the message can get lost, but they're actually coming out with clearer messages of what they want done and ownership is coming along. And I think that that's the right approach. And if you're an owner who is not doing the same thing, you're making a mistake because

all you're doing is just creating more tension between you and your players. Yeah, and you mentioned it with the power of the players, you know, and with the NBA. I mean, we've seen it just not just with this particular issue. I mean, it's been heightened this week, certainly. But, you know, whenever we've compared the NBA and the NFL, we've always recognized that players in the NBA have always had a very, very strong voice for many, many years just when it comes to collective bargaining agreements. The players in the NBA have always had sort of a louder voice

and more influence on what goes on in the league. And a lot of those guys have been empowered to have a voice and to be able to determine where they go and the path that they're able to take in their careers on and off the court. And it's, you know, when you look at the NFL, for as much as we love the sport and as much as we love following the league, that's always something that we've, you know, been frustrated with with the players is that they've never really been empowered enough to to have the ability to really dictate where they want to go and dictate you know the the the contract that they get I mean it you know the the stars in the league typically get closer to what

they want than usual but it's always it's always just sort of this struggle this power struggle between the players and and ownership and now I think we're finally starting to see the needle, I think, in that department be moved. And it's amazing that it's a social justice issue that ends up being sort of at the forefront of that needle moving. But I love that these players are being empowered more and that their voices are being heard. It's really important.

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And they are so invested in the community in Minnesota that they're willing to spend a lot of their personal time on measures that are not just coming from George Floyd. They were doing this before. They just weren you know, coming from George Floyd. They were doing this before. They just weren't talking about it before George Floyd. Things like trying to help people get rehabilitated after going to jail. Again, like things that are helpful to society as a whole and for these players to show the amount of care for their own societies and their own communities that they have is just moving, honestly. I mean, again, it gets muddied a lot by this person yelling at this person, that person yelling at this person, how media covers it on the larger scale and things like that.

But if you're looking on the micro level here in Minnesota and you have two players that want to help you vote, and if you go to jail, they want to help you reacclimate into society. That's really something to think about. It's like, aren't there supposed to be people in society whose jobs are to do this? But NFL players have said, put it on our backs too, despite the fact that we're doing this. And the other point is about Patrick Mahomes. He's the difference.

He's the swing man. Quarterbacks have always been, I don't want to get into that kind of thing, and I'm so much in the spotlight, I want to be apolitical. I mean, even Kirk Cousins, the president called him, and the first thing he said was, well, you know, I'm going to answer the president's call, but it's not political. It's not political. And even Cousins has now come along and said, yeah, actually, you guys should be listening to Eric Hendricks and Anthony Barr and paying attention to what they say.

But with Mahomes getting on that video to make the point to Roger Goodell, you have to do something because now I'm involved. Like the NFL has no power over Patrick Mahomes. They know Mahomes is irreplaceable you will never find another one you are talking about the best NFL quarterback the guy who's a 500 million dollar contract I mean his value is so immense to this league he's the one guy that like you mentioned replacement players yeah okay his backups Matt Moore Moore. Let's start playing NFL seasons with Matt Moore as opposed to Patrick Mahomes. And so seeing this shift in power to really, I mean, more or less bridge a gap that's been very, very wide for many years has been just straight-up fascinating, man.

Well, and, Collin, let's even go beyond Patrick Mahomes here for a second. Obviously, he's the biggest star in the game. He's Super Bowl champion, best quarterback in the game. But when you look at the prime position of this sport, of this league, the quarterback position, the best guys playing the position right now are African-American. The biggest stars in this league right now are african-american the biggest stars in this league right now at that position are african-american we're talking about patrick mahomes we're talking

about lamar jackson we're talking about russell wilson we're talking about deshaun watson these are those four guys are four of the best if not the four best quarterbacks in the National Football League. Certainly they're all in the top ten, I think. And they're all African-American. And the reality is it's time for the NFL to recognize your biggest stars, your biggest names playing the biggest, most popular, most important position in your sport are African-Americans. And if you are behind the times now with those guys being at the forefront of your league, you're slipping.

And so I think I get the sense now that the league is understanding. You know, it's unfortunate that it takes sort of the emergence of a Patrick Mahomes, of a Russell Wilson to sort of go in this direction now. But I get the sense that the league is understanding now that you've got to get with the program now. And, you know, if you want to keep these guys, especially at the forefront of your league, the biggest stars in your game, if you want to keep them into it and keep them loyal to your league, you've got to get with the program. And if you think of what a big mistake it was with Kaepernick,

where if the league had embraced Kaepernick from the very beginning and said, okay, like some people on the outside are misunderstanding the kneeling thing, but let's work together on this and let's take steps forward, which is really what the Minnesota Vikings have done. I mean, they create a social justice committee. They work together. The coaches are involved. The owners are backing it with $5 million.

And that's how the NFL at large should have handled it from the very beginning and said, okay, what you're talking about is real, and how can we help? Because if we don't, it's going to be just contentious, and that's where their mistake was. They didn't understand that they just misplayed it. Even if you go beyond the societal, the social justice, the philosophical issues involved and just say, it was a bad chess move to just fight the guy and just blackball him and even Roger Goodell has admitted that as well so to me it's fascinating on a number of levels it's totally wild that NFL players and NBA players and WNBA players are are the ones who

have to change our society for the better it's like really um it's amazing to me and it shows you what incredible people a lot of them are the fact fact that they are able to do that, that Amir Abdullah can step out to go in the future here and i think a lot of owners you know in a way it's like if you're not going to get on board then maybe roger goodell and the other owners have to say you can't be in our exclusive billionaires club if you're not going to go forward just like the nba did with donald sterling so really glad that we could get together for this conversation. Now, I think we got to do some hot routes, Manny. Let's do it, man. That's what I've been chomping at the bit ever since you asked me to come on with you the other day. I was like, I hope he's going to have me do hot routes. That's what I've been anticipating. I would never have you on without Hot Routes. This is your intro, and it is your wheelhouse.

I mean, this is an inside fastball to Barry Bonds, setting you up for Hot Routes. All right, here we go. There's news in the NFL today, and it's time to break it down in the only way we know how. Hot Routes style. With our spin on football headlines with a mix of frozen tundras, let's be a cold weather team, neck rolls, and grass game jerseys.

The good old fashioned guts was probably the biggest difference in the game. First question for you in Hot Routes. I want you to tell me, Manny, who the two best and two worst offensive linemen of the Mike Zimmer era are. Because after watching Pat Elfline and Dakota Dozier in the Viking scrimmage, there are very reasonable concerns that there won't be a whole lot of improvement. And this has just been such a thing since Mike Zimmer took over that they cannot put five men out on the field in front of their quarterback who can block.

They've had one or two at a time, but never five. So who are the two best and two worst offensive linemen of the Mike Zimmer era? Okay, so when I first saw this question, I thought, I kind of figured we were probably going to have the same answer for like one of each, the best and the worst. I know for sure we're going to have the same answers for the worst guy. But I'll go with the best. I'll go with Joe Berger just because I think the way he was so versatile and be able to play the center position or either guard position, and every time he was in there, he was just really, really solid. He was just like the old cliche of old reliable on the offensive line, right? It's almost like wherever you put him,

you know you were going to get solid production there from Joe Berger. And he was a guy that was just always kind of like that his entire career, even before he got to the Vikings. And then when he got here, I mean, he just, wherever the Vikings put him, you know, because the rest of the offensive line would be such a gong show that he was always the one guy on the line that you looked at and said, okay, the Vikings are okay in that spot. Rather, it was right guard, left guard, center, right tackle, wherever he played. You always kind of felt like, okay, yeah, the Vikings are probably okay there. The problem was

always what's going to go on with the other four spots on the offensive line. But Joe Berger was always Mr. Old Reliable. And I'm kind of cheating here. I do have a backup answer for this in case you tell me I can't use it. I think 2017 Pat Elfline was pretty good as a rookie. Like the answer. And then he – yeah, I mean, and then obviously he had the injury in the NFC Championship game, and he really hasn't been the same guy since.

But Pat Elfline turned a lot of heads in 2017 as a rookie, right? I mean, he was a third-round pick. He stepped in as a starting center right away, did a great job on a Vikings team that had a great season. So, yeah, I'd go Joe Berger and then 2017 Pat Elfline as my best guys. You want to give me your best and then I give you your worst? Yeah, I'll give you my best

and then you can give me your worst. I'm going to go with a current offensive lineman in Brian O'Neill and I will go with... See, that was my backup. Brian O'Neill was my backup in case you told me I couldn't use the 2017 Pat Elfline. Yeah, and you are not wrong.

2017 Pat Elfline is a creative and good answer in why we do hot routes, because you're totally right, and I think his trajectory was good as a center, but then the injury set him back. He did not play well, and then you start moving guys around positions, and that's always a bad sign.

I am going to go with Phil Lodeholt, who was at the end of his career in 2014 and also is the most massive human being I have ever stood next to in my entire life and perfectly named, Phil Lodeholt. And then Brian O'Neill, their current right tackle. I think that those have been the two best. Your answer is good on Joe Berger, but other than Lodeholtz and Brian O'Neill, they have just not really been able to pass protect with any other tackles. And I know that we're going to be on the same page with at least one of the worst. So I'll let you take that, and then I'll come up with some other ones.

Okay. I mean, the worst,'s there's no there's no other answer here really i mean it's tj clemmings i mean it's just it was no matter where you put him he was certainly was a 2016 he was the left tackle for most of that season and it was just it was just a train wreck it was just a disaster you put him at right tackle, it was a disaster. They tried him at guard a little bit towards the end of his time here. It was a disaster. It was just, he was just a turnstile. It was just bad. There was just no other way to describe it. And then the other guy I thought about was Matt Khalil. I mean, Matt Khalil was another one of those guys, much like Pat Elfline, had a really good rookie season. And then after that, it just sort of went downhill,

and, you know, all of the injuries, and then, you know, just not being very good when he was out there by the time Mike Zimmer became the head coach in 2014. So, worst guys, T.J. Clemmings and Matt Khalil for me, for sure. I mean, the obvious answers, I think for both Matt Khalil, though, someone's still out there demanding excellence from him. I don't know who, but somebody remember for anyone who doesn't get that one, when he left Minnesota, he said that it was better in Carolina because they demanded excellence. And then he was terrible as always. And a guy that I always question how much he really wanted to play football. and maybe that was part of the issue. So I'm going to go a little bit, a guy that never really got criticized,

you know, and they're offensive linemen anyway. But Brandon Fusco led the team in pressures allowed in 2015, and I don't think that anyone would have guessed that. But for a left guard to give up 55 pressures is complete insanity. I mean, it's almost impossible for a left guard to give up that many pressures, to give up more pressures on the same amount of snaps than either Clemmings or Matt Khalil is mind-blowing. And he was one of the worst graded in terms of pass blocking.

I mean, really, he's been one of the worst. That season is one of the worst by a guard since Pro Football Focus started 2015 Brandon Fusco. So I think he belongs on that list. And, I mean, can Pat Healthline make both sides of this list? Can he make, like, can I go 2018 through current? I think so, yeah. I think I have to.

I think I have to go 2018 through current Pat Alplight. So he's become the guy that just comes up all the time, every game where it's untenable. On Twitter, every time he gets beat, people are watching him every game, like, oh, there he goes again, just getting blown by. So we'll see if right guard does anything for him. I'm not super confident in that. But funny that he lands on both sides of this list.

Next question for you, Manny. Dwayne Haskins said that Alex Smith is acting like his older brother at camp. And he was also apparently awesome to Patrick Mahomes to the point that Mahomes thanked him after winning the Super Bowl. It was one of the first people he thanked was Alex Smith. I want you to give me your three most likable current NFL starting quarterbacks. And if you had any throwbacks, that's fine too. But give me your three most likable current starting quarterbacks, and I'm going to make an addendum here.

You can't pick Teddy. Teddy's too obvious. Everybody's going to have Teddy. Okay, so this is your three other than Teddy. I know you wrote Teddy. Teddy's too obvious. Everybody's going to have Teddy. Okay. So this is your three other than Teddy. I know you wrote Teddy. I did. I did write Teddy. Yes, he was one of them. So as I'm, as I'm listing these off, I had to think of another, I have to think of another guy. Number one for me is, is, is Lamar Jackson. I just, he is, I just, I love everything about his personality. I love everything about the leadership capability that he has. He's just, he's just a winner.

And he's an easy guy, I think, to root for, certainly, with everything, with all the perceptions about him coming into the league, about, you know, well, should he be a wide receiver? You know, he's not accurate with the ball and things like that. And he's just become an absolute star. And you look at – you listen to him talk, and you can just tell this guy loves playing football. And he's a competitor, and he wants to win,

but he also knows how to be sort of an easygoing, fun-loving guy. And he's just the easiest guy on the planet to root for. Deshaun Watson is another one, you know, for a lot of the same reasons, really. I mean, he's a guy that won in college at a high level, won a national championship and, you know, was passed over by a few teams in the draft. And he's continued to have nothing but success since he's gotten in. I worry about his safety on the field at times because their offensive line has been a disaster.

And I don't really trust the head coach down there in Houston. But he himself, though, has just been tremendous. Again, another likable guy. And third guy, wow, you told me I can't pick Teddy. Maybe Ryan Fitzpatrick? Yeah, great answer. Maybe just because of the – You took my answer.

Yeah, just the way he has, like, stood the test of time, right? I mean, he just – the guy almost – you know, I don't want to say this as a bad thing, but the guy doesn't go away. He's like one of those guys that's just never going to go away. You're going to look up, and it feels like you're always going to see Ryan Fitzpatrick on a team, throwing a lot of touchdown passes, throwing a lot of interceptions. It doesn't matter. He's just an easy guy to cheer for, and the beard and everything. He's just a lot of interceptions. It doesn't matter. He's just an easy guy to cheer for, and the beard and everything. He's just a lot of fun. Get back to the conversation in just a minute, but first,

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Never miss your favorite team and favorite players. No matter where you live, NFLSundayTicket.tv is your key to the most glorious Sundays ever. Use the promo code BLUEWIRE at checkout to get 15% off your subscription. Visit NFLSundayTicket.tv and use promo code BLUEWIRE. And teammates absolutely love him, and I've been around him a little bit when I was in Buffalo. And just a guy that even though he got criticized a lot in Buffalo because they gave him a big contract, handled it extremely well.

He's really funny, really personable. For a guy who went to Harvard, you sort of expect him to be a little bit like, oh, I went to Harvard, smart guy. He's not. He's like really down to earth cool. And what he did with Deshaun Jackson's clothes, wearing them after in a press conference once, like it sort of showed like that's him. He's really funny. He's got the best sense of humor. And if you want to have a 18 year NFL career, that's one of the ways to do it. I love your list. So I'll pick different ones. I mean, gosh, I thought you won't think of Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Phillip Rivers was on my list. Just like, you know, I went to North Carolina. Let's go shoot. Let's throw some touchdowns down the field. Just the gunslinger mentality, throw it all over the place, competes hard. He was the guy that tore his ACL in a game and kept playing. Like he's always had that toughness element to him, but also, you know, is just a,

seems to be a fun guy who loves playing the game. And I know I've told the story on the show before, but him in Los Angeles, and I was the only one to see this standing outside the locker room. So he didn't do this as some sort of big production. I just happened to be standing there waited for Garrett Bradbury a long time to just shake his hand gave him a jersey because they went to the same college and say hey good luck with you you know going forward and that sort of thing like what does he care about a rookie center but they went to the

same college and he just took the extra time after getting his ass kicked to do that. And that, to me, said, like, okay, I think that tells you a lot about who Phillip Rivers really is. Now, of course, you took the two that I am most proud of in terms of knowing they were going to be great around draft time, Deshaun Watson and Lamar Jackson, not a wide receiver from what I've heard. So I'm going to go with Cam Newton here. I know that this might be controversial because some people do not like Cam Newton. They don't like the dabbing. They don't like the style. They don't like the strange hats and all those things.

But after what Jeremiah Searles said on the podcast a few weeks ago about playing with Cam Newton and how committed he was, how in command he was. So it's like, I love guys with personality to begin with, but also the commitment that he has to being great is really extraordinary too. And just, there's another element of like, who's the most fun to watch? Like who's the coolest? Who's the nicest? Who do you like the most? But there's also who's really fun. And I think that Cam Newton is a guy who is just really exceptionally fun. Third one on the list since you took a couple of them. Jeez, is it wrong to pick Jimmy G?

Like, people hate Jimmy G. You know, they get on Jimmy G. No, I like Jimmy Garoppolo. I'm a fan of Jimmy Garoppolo. I like him. I think he gets a little bit too much flack. I think he's good. I don't think he's one of the elite guys,

but I think he's better than I think a lot of people want to give him credit for, certainly. He's up 20-10 in the Super Bowl in the fourth quarter. What more do you want from him? Defense defense make a stop on third and 15 uh mahomes is also one of the most likable it's very rare that a guy is the number one quarterback and is not like debated over so he could certainly go on the list as well but i i just wanted to shout out jimmy g for a guy like okay let me go to the super Bowl and get criticized for that. You know, like I'll take that.

So a good list. Speaking of Cam Newton, Jason McCourty said that Cam Newton is the first guy in and the last guy out for the Patriots, which again, should not surprise you since he's been massively successful as an NFL player and those muscles and complete command of the offense don't just show up. Anyway, so that's an all-time, like, cliche compliment, though. First guy in, last guy out. That was me at Score North.

Give me your favorite cliche NFL compliment. It's sort of a weird explanation coming on this, but it's my favorite because I hate it so much, I guess, if that makes sense. And it's defense wins championships. I can't stand it. It drives me – it's my favorite because of how much I absolutely despise that statement because it's just – and you and I, we had this conversation about that before. It's just, and you and I, we had this conversation about that before. It's just, it's just not really true. Like it's just not, it's just not really a thing,

no matter how, no matter how people want to slice it. It's, it's just not true. And when people try to speak in favor of it, they always point to two things, right? They point to the 2000 Baltimore Ravens and the 85 Chicago Bears. Two teams out of 50 plus that have won Super Bowls that won with the identity of their team being their defense. And obviously, you know, you think about the Legion of Boom and you think about the Buccaneers too. But again, that's, you're talking four teams out of 50 plus that where the identity of their team was their defense and nothing else right and right it's just not i mean every every team the majority of the teams that win championships most of them are complete teams they're teams that are really good on defense and really good on offense as well. But, you know, you need to have a really good quarterback.

You need to, you know, have weapons around him. You need to be able to score points. The point of the game is to score more points than your opponent. Plain and simple. You know, so the defense wins championships is my favorite cliche only because it is so untrue pretty much. Well, I like that you nailed it with the complete analytical analysis that you have to be good at everything to win a Super Bowl, imagine. But you're exactly right. I mean, that's just, if you're a top offense and a top defense, you're probably good, right? So most teams that win Super Bowls are good on offense and defense.

And a lot of times on the way there, it requires a great defensive performance. And I think that that's where that comes from is that those always stand out. So the New England Patriots had a top five in terms of efficiency passing offense in 2018, but they got a great defensive performance in the actual Super Bowl. So there you have it, defense wins championships and so forth. But an all-time cliche, mine is when they describe someone as being built like a fire hydrant. That is my favorite thing when somebody says about somebody else,

yeah, the dude's built like a fire hydrant. It's just perfect. It's just the perfect visual of like this thing that's stuck in the ground has little arms and you can't move it. It's just – perfect visual of, like, this thing that's stuck in the ground has little arms and you can't move it. It's just – it's super funny. I want to know, like, who is the first person to be like, dude, that guy looks like a fire hydrant. And also Mike Zimmer wants Coltrane Jones a squatty body.

That's another thing that was funny. Like, I don't know if that's a compliment or not. Next question for you, Manny. Some people are picking the Lions to be the worst-to-first team this year. Give me your worst-to-first that is not the Detroit Lions, or is there one? This is hard. Yeah, this is hard because I don't really think there is one, but I guess the first team that came to my mind was Arizona,

although I don't – I mean, that's such a tough division with the 49ers in Seattle and, you know, even the Rams had a disappointing year last year, but there's still enough talent there and enough on the coaching staff, I think, to at least have them be competitive. But I just like where Arizona is going, and I like the direction that they have. They've got a young quarterback now, a young head coach, an offensive-minded head coach. I love the trade for DeAndre Hopkins, for Kyler Murray. They seem like a team that is on the rise and ascending in the right direction

where you might be looking at a team like the Rams who could be trending down the other way. We're still a pretty good team, but might be trending backwards. So this might be an outside opportunity for the, for the Cardinals to maybe make that jump that I think they would need some things to go their way. Probably some injuries from some of the other teams maybe. But I teams maybe. But it's really, if you think about it, it's really hard to see any team that finished in last place in 2019 just making that immediate leap up to first

place in any of their divisions. I'll give you mine. I think Miami has the best chance, other than Detroit. I mean, Detroit was the injured quarterback, and that's why they finished last. But Miami is in a very weak division. If Cam Newton doesn't work out with New England, or gets hurt, I mean, he gets hurt all the time later in his career. So if Cam Newton turns an ankle or something with the Patriots in week two, and he ends up out for six to eight weeks, and Jared Stidham throws 100 interceptions and is the next Nate Biederman, then Miami signed a bunch of people in the offseason.

They have, I think, a great coach. To get five wins, including one against New England, out of that team last year, they've improved hugely. And Fitzpatrick, if he's the starter, he can win you 10 games. He's done it before in his career when he's been with halfway decent teams. So, you know, it's such a bad division that I think that that opens the door for Miami to be that team that shocks us all. All the other ones, you know, they'd be tough.

Like Cincinnati, rookie quarterback, Jacksonville, they look like they're going to stay there for a while. So that's going to be my pick last question for you Manny the uh Nebraska players are suing the Big Ten to be allowed to play this year which of course is a waste of paper to to try to do that for the Nebraska players I mean you're just not going to win that lawsuit I'd love to see the Big Ten play but you're not going to win that lawsuit uh what would you sue the NFL over that is completely frivolous and you would never win, but you would get your point across?

Just how poorly passive interference has been called, especially over the last couple of years. And even now with it being reviewable and everything, there's still just sort of these question marks about it. And it feels like it's one of those conversations that's just never going to end, the whole conversation of, was that pass interference or was it not? And should the challenge flag be thrown on that? Should that play be revealed, should be reviewed or anything like that? And just the fact that these officials seem to continue to botch this thing year after year after year.

There's always a play or two in almost every game, almost every season, where you're just like, my God, how was that play missed? How was that call missed? How do you throw a flag in that situation? Yeah, I would have obviously no chance of winning that lawsuit whatsoever. But if I wanted to sue the NFL on anything, just to be kind of a thorn in their side about something, it would be pass interference for sure. I have three. I'm going to sue the NFL for Skycam referees. So that will help. We can join. This is one of those, what do they call them, when a bunch of people get together and sue?

One of those. So we'll sue together. I'm going to sue to get Jim Marshall in the Hall of Fame. I mean, just how? He is one of the most valuable Vikings of all time. If you look at approximate value by pro football reference, he's one of the most valuable in history. He got overshadowed because there were other great players.

That shouldn't be a penalty. And there's a lot of Pittsburgh Steelers and Dallas Cowboys who were on great teams that made the Hall of Fame too. I'm suing for Jim Marshall. And the other one is I'm suing that the Music City Miracle is a forward pass. I don't need it to be changed because we can't go back and play it, but I just want it acknowledged that it was, and I maybe want monetary compensation for ruining my childhood because that was a forward pass and that's all

there is to it. So, and I told, I once told Lorenzo Neal, I'm pretty sure that was a forward pass. He's like, I don't think so, because he was on the field at that time. So anyway, Manny Hill, this has been super fun, and it was great catching up with you. We used to spend a lot of time on the air together, and I'm glad that we still get the chance to catch up and talk football. It's always a good time. You and I, I say this every time I'm on with you,

but the thing I love the most about our friendship is the fact that we both it's always a good time. You and I, I say this every time I'm on with you, but I, I, the thing I love the most about our friendship is the fact that we both have just this undying love for mid nineties NFL football. And the fact that we can continue to go back and talk about things like that. And just football in general is always a good time. So I always, I always appreciate when you have me on.

That was my plan. if coronavirus killed the season, was to just replay the 98 season and show everyone. See? Like people were finding out about Michael Jordan during last dance. You're like, oh, wait until you find out about 90s football. So, Manny, great stuff. And we will do it again soon, man. Hi, my name is Bobby Peters, and I've recently written a book titled the 2017

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