Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - NFC North offseason awards ft. Lorin Cox of Locked On Bears

Episode Date: May 7, 2025

Matthew Coller is joined by Lorin Cox of Locked On Bears to discuss the NFC North teams' respective offseasons and to hand out offseason awards.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Inside or Matthew Coller here and joining me on the show, Lauren Cox from Locked on Bears. And we've got a little bit of a fun thing for you here today. We've got some time in the schedule before we get to those OTAs and mini camps, which will be overanalyzing like crazy to just pull back and take a bigger and broader look at the off season. And rather than just doing that in a dull way, I decided to try to have some fun with it, Lauren.

And we've created the NFC North off season awards, which I'm going to tell you the truth. The reason I brought someone on who covers the bears is because of how hilarious it is every year when the bears win the off season and then don't actually win real games in the regular season. That's why I did it. That's why you're here. So welcome to the show. Yeah.

I detected that from the moment we got on it and I don't think you're wrong. It's been off season champions a few years in a row now, so you can find ways to talk yourself into being different this time, but I'm still waiting to see it on the field before I'm really like, Oh yeah, this works. I mean, there's probably a better case this time with a coach that might be competent offensively, but then you could go back and say, well, Matt, Nagy was supposed to be the office. And I say, well, you know, I mean, look, you talk about a really high drafted

quarterback if it works out, but then if Justin Fields, high drafted quarterback, Mitch Trubisky, so yeah, we're going to have to wait and see. That's why they're the off season awards though. So we're going to go through a bunch of categories. Some are very serious. Some are a little less so, but I wanted to start out with the most obvious one,

kind of the reverse of how you would do the Oscars instead of waiting to the end to give out the big award. Let's begin at the top with the award for this off season's best general manager in the NFC North. Who do you think deserves the award for the best GM in the NFC North this year? I think it has to come down to either Ryan Polzer or Quasie, right? Like I don't think the Packers or the Lions did, you know,

made it, had enough change to justify like, rating their gentlemanhood that high. For both of these guys, I could kind of hear you out on either direction. I lean Poles only because of the coaching change being such a big monumental shift for the Bears. Whereas like, I think both GMs did a lot of good stuff for their offensive line.

They both made some significant investments in their defensive lines. Like they did a lot of things you like. And so if maybe it's not fair to call those equal, but if you call those mostly equal, like the Ben Johnson hire, I think is what puts Ryan Pohl slightly ahead for me. Okay. I think that that is definitely fair. Although I mean, knocking Quacey for not having to replace a bad coaching hire, I don't know about that because in the same off season.

Well, OK, so he fired the coach in the regular season, but even having to replace your own coach, that seems like an odd reward. That's like, oh, the award for starting a fire and then putting some water on it. Like, I'm not sure that you do get extra bonus points for that. But I do think what Ryan Poles has been able to do in terms of giving Caleb Williams stuff to work with. And this is common for both of these general managers for Ryan Poles and for Quasi.flamenca is they both came in with an intent to put as much around their young quarterbacks as possible. And what this award should come down to

is who we think did a better job of that. I mean, getting Luther Burden and Colton Loveland. I've made fun of the Loveland pick a little bit because it's a first round tight end and like, oh, you got another Kyle Pitts, congratulations to your check down King and so forth. But nonetheless, that's me being snarky. It is another weapon.

And then Birden has, I think very high potential to go along with some weapons already there. Roma doonsay from last year. And that offensive line was not that great. And now it's an offensive line that can run block with a coach that it fits for. So all of that kind of locking in makes a lot of sense for them.

And then the Vikings drafting a receiver, drafting a left guard, spending a lot of money on the interior. I think both of these GMs did a great job of. Really looking at their quarterback and saying, how can I make this guy better? Like they weren't going out and doing a lot of work on the safety position. They were saying, what's going to determine whether we're good or not? It's the quarterback. And I think to your earlier point, like Ryan Poles having to start from farther down makes his offseason feel better, even though it's a

result of his own previous mistakes. Like when, when Quetzee already has TJ Hockinson and Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison, Aaron Jones, there's less work to have to do. And so when the Bears make significant upgrades at wide receiver and tight end, in addition to the offensive line, it's like, Oh, well, look, they did so much more than the Vikings and it's like, well, the Vikings didn't have as much to do to support the quarterback in the same way. Yeah. It's sort of like when an Oscar goes to somebody that should have wanted a

previous year and they're like, well, you know, we kind of stiffed them on that one, so we'll give them a little extra credit. Uh, I mean, I think if I'm going to defend quasi at a flamenca, if you're making the case a little bit more for Ryan polls, I guess I probably would start there. But I would also say that when they went into the off season, it was clear from the playoff game what their weaknesses were the most. And I think that the Rams just shined a spotlight on your interior lines not good enough. Your interior defensive line isn't good enough.

Your running game isn't good enough. And you could also use one more playmaker and they just did all of that. And the only thing that I would knock or it's hard to say it's a knock. Maybe it's more of just a question is the age of some of the players that they went and got the injury history. If we're questioning anything or saying what could be a red flag for that.

I think that goes out a little bit more for the Vikings than some of the players that the Bears brought in. But even then Jonah Jackson's not coming off his best year. There's a reason the Rams are getting rid of him. Joe Tooney is on the other side. I think that this is a pretty even race. If we're going to lean one way, I might have to go with a quasi just because this was more of a several year plan that was executed to the point

where they could win 14 games, then add a bunch of stuff to a roster, rather than losing and losing and losing and losing, and then being like, I guess it's time to go get some more guys. Yeah, I see. I think of it as like, who is the best GM this off season? Like yeah, Quacey's probably had,

Quacey's been a better general manager, like overall they've had more success, but because if you look at what they started with and where they got now, then yes, obviously then Ryan Poles gets rewarded for his past mistakes by being able to be the guy who fixes his past mistakes, but that's sort of the, probably the nitty gritty nuance of like, okay, well, what's the time period

we're really qualifying here? Okay, I think that's fair. You're right. That is just this off season. Both of these GMs did a lot. I can lean a little bit more toward Ryan polls, but let's talk about the other GMs. The also rands of this award. I actually think with Brad Holmes in Detroit, that it was not exciting. It was not flashy,

but that they just added some nice little pieces here or there to improve their team and, or at least shore up some of their weaknesses even their first round pick like I don't love a pure nose tackle in the first round but then again when you look at it in the context of that defensive line I mean with already Elaine McNeil and Aiden Hutchinson coming back maybe they'll resign Zedarius Smith or something like they and Anwar Zerki coming back like they have a lot there now with even just adding him. Some of their draft picks were a little bit reachy or extremely reachy compared

to what the consensus board thought. But I think that when you're in a position to just nicely spruce up a roster that Brad Holmes did a good job of that. Yeah. Sometimes some of the best moves can just be maintaining the status quo, right? Like bringing back some of the glue guys of your franchise, like Tim Patrick at the wide receiver position

or a couple of guys up front. Like sometimes, like they were a really good team last year. They kept a lot of that team intact and that doesn't show up on the like off season additions and subtractions list and who got better. But it's like, yeah, you were a really good team and you maintained a lot of that. That's good work.

Like lions fan should be pretty happy. As far as the Packers go drafting a wide receiver in the first round. And I think the third round as well, Sevian Williams, that's good work. Hey, welcome to the party where receivers matter Packers. Uh, you can't just develop a Jordy Nelson every single time or draft them in the second round and ignore, Oh, I don't know, Justin Jefferson or whatever like the Packers did in the past. They did the right thing to try to help their quarterback by picking receivers. They overpaid like crazy on an offensive lineman.

I am not sure that they actually improve their offensive line by doing that. They're the same team to me. I'm looking at it and saying it's the same picture. Me like that's the same picture unless Matthew Golden is really awesome right out of the gate, which is very possible. But if he's just a guy out of the gate and needs development, I also had some questions about him in general. Like he technically ran a 429 40, but it didn't really look like

that when you watched him play actual football. So is this the same kind of Christian Watson we think because he's really fast He'll be great, but maybe won't have that same sort of impact I think that process is good, but the rest of it is just I don't know I just don't see them as being any different than the team they were last year And if you have played this year's schedule with last year's team You win like nine games, 10 games. I see them as just like a middling team.

Yeah. Like in the same way that like you give the Lions credit because they were a good team and they kept everything together. Like the Packers were not a bad team, but like that was a team you thought maybe overachieved a little bit last season, barely won any NFC North games. I thought like they needed a little bit more to kind of boost them up over the edge. And yeah, I think Golden will certainly help with that. And they're probably more confident in their offensive line changes than either one of us are because I didn't love their free agent

signing or their second round pick really at those spots. So I'm not sure that they got a lot better there and the defense is mostly status quo. I mean, I guess trying to finding a way to hold J. Alexander around like that's, that's's I guess one thing you give him credit for. But I think they're kind of a team that's counting on, hey, we are a young football team. We have a young football team and we just need coaching to make this team better. And the general manager is never really going to get much credit for that part. Yeah. And they just they've never really been the team that wants to make the big free agent splash, which is sort of ironic since they made the first big splash ever when they signed Reggie White.

But in recent years, they have not been the team that goes into free agency and goes crazy and signs a bunch of players. So I guess we'll see if that hurts them or if some of their younger guys develop and it works out for them right away. I will let me throw in one more thing I thought of for Quacey's argument. So we're given Ryan Pohl's credit for hiring a coach that might not be terrible, might not be. The Vikings coach signed a very long extension because he was so good and Quacey was the one who hired it. Maybe that's a stretch.

Anyway, we will give Ryan Pohl's the first annual best off-season award though for this year. Congratulations to him. Trust me, lots of Bears GM's have probably won it on other podcasts in previous years. So let's go to the next one on the list, which is the award for the singular move that will make the most impact on the division. Who did you want to nominate for that? Yeah. So, I mean, I don't want to, I don't want to

maintain the Bears conversation, but I think Ben Johnson leaving Detroit and going to Chicago impacts two teams in a really monumental way that feels like elevates above any one like individual player or signing for one team. But that also feels a little bit like cheating. So I had a more creative answer that I'd rather go with as far as an actual player. And I think the biggest individual impact is actually the Packers keeping Jair Alexander so far, because I think on a couple of different layers there that one wind, Jair Alexander is healthy. He is really good and makes a really big difference on that Packers secondary,

but then also be. He is a lot of seller cap space for them. And if they had gotten rid of them, they could have had more space to add other players or another impact players and could have had a bigger impact on the difference on that Packers secondary, but then also be. He is a lot of seller cap space for them. And if they had gotten rid of them, they could have had more space to add other players or other impact players and could have had a bigger impact on the defense. And if he is hurt again, then that's going to be a lot of seller cap space. Eating up and wasting away on the Packers bench. And they didn't really do a lot else to upgrade that position.

I mean, they brought in Nate Hobbs to play the slot, but like they didn't add some Jarey Alexander replacement in the future. So I think like his, his big role on that defense and his instability and the fact that that expense and instability is still there. It's really like a huge boomer bus swing either way. If he's on the field against the NFC North opponents, that makes a big difference to when he's not on the field. Well, what I wonder about Jair is just where's his health at and is he going

to be the same player that he's been because the cornerback position is an interesting one. We always talk about because of the fantasy aspect, we talk about running backs as the position that guys get old fast at and they're in and out of the league or in and out of their primes. But think about over the years, all the different guys we've sort of declared him at cornerback. Oh, well, Jairo Alexander, he's the guy. He's the top corner in the league.

And then two years later, we're not even talking about Jairo Alexander anymore. And Xavier Rhodes was this guy for the Vikings from 2015 through 2017, maybe into 18. He is the guys, the best shutdown corner in the division, one of the best, the entire league and then by 2020 it's just over for Xavier Rhodes even 2019 because they get injured a lot and I also think that sometimes it's just circumstances a guy gets a bunch of interceptions one year And then he's you know not that same guy the following year

So I wonder and I don't disagree with you that them keeping Jlexander at least as of this moment they could trade in this afternoon is a is good for them. What i just don't know how good he is anymore i was gonna go with a viking corner and i'm not gonna nominate everything for the vikings but. Keeping byron murphy junior and re signing him might be the move that has the biggest impact because the Vikings have so much going for them defensively and they signed two defensive tackles. I also thought about throwing Jonathan Allen out there for this kind of depends on what version of Jonathan Allen the Vikings end up getting, but without Byron Murphy,

they would have had to spend big money to bring in somebody else who hasn't been in Brian Flores system and then reteach essentially the entire secondary, how to play for Brian Flores because they're bringing in Isaiah Rogers, they're bringing back Mackay Blackman after an injury, but this is a lot of learning is going to have to go on this off season for that group. He is the head of the snake in a lot of ways for the secondary Harrison Smith

and him, they call it hub of communication if you want to use their language. But six interceptions last year, he's always been a playmaker, but that kind of elevated last season. I know there's some inconsistency to that number, but as having somebody that they can trust and play a thousand snaps and is central and important to their defense, the Vikings are going anywhere. If they don't have a top five to seven defense, I don't know if they would have been able to do it without Byron Murphy.

Does it say something about our lack of confidence in the other big moves of the division to say that the two biggest moves are guys who didn't go anywhere. I mean, I think probably part of it is that some of the other big moves were on the interior offensive line and those are good moves, but like high impact for the division. I mean, Joe Tooney or or will freeze or whoever like great moves, but like highest impact move. I mean, probably not. It's more like collectively, those are big moves, but individually, maybe no one else fits neatly into this category. Yeah. Joe Tooney was certainly a big one. I thought that that's who you were going to nominate.

And the fact that, you know, Detroit just didn't make a big move. Matthew Golden could be it though, for the Green Bay Packers. I'm a little bit dubious on him as somebody who just catches a hundred balls right away in the NFL. I think he's somebody who ends up with like 38 catches for 550 yards because he's caught some deep balls, but I could be wrong. He has the potential to be that.

And I would look at it the same way as even a Colson Loveland. Like he has the potential to be a outlet for Caleb Williams and make everything easier for him or the interior lines for both the Vikings in the Packer or the Bears have a chance to dominate in the run game. And that's something that the last couple of years, neither one of those teams has been all that effective in doing. If you wanted to throw out one that was well, actually, no, I've got an underrated and an overrated move coming up in our awards.

So I don't want to say, hey, let me throw out one that's underrated, but I think you're right about keeping your own players, not letting guys get away. Cause if Murphy had gone elsewhere, I mean, I didn't love the other options. I mean, DJ Reed is a good player, but plays a different style. Shevarious Ward was coming off of one of his worst years.

I don't know if that would have been a good investment. So maybe it's just one of the players that are weapons that the Bears drafted is the one that will look back and go. Oh, yeah, we should have expected that that guy was going to catch 97 passes and make the Pro Bowl or something. It's just so hard for I mean, rookie wide receivers, I suppose have had impacts. But when you come into not that Chicago has the world's

greatest weapons, but Loveland is going to start Chicago has the world's greatest weapons But you know Loveland is gonna start out behind coal commit at the very least and Loveland is still recovering from a shoulder injury So he's supposed to be ready for training camp. I mean, he might have a slower start to the season So I'm not not necessarily expecting Huge breakout year one and then you know, Luther Byrne in Chicago was gonna be behind DJ Moore and Roma doonsay So like perhaps impact players But like no one quite fits neatly in this category of like a rookie who's going to come in except for maybe Matthew Golden, but you know, you kind of outline the reasons why like, eh, we'll see.

So if we're not, if we're not including a coach hire, which I don't think we can, we could declare potential impact for him, but I don't know it's predictable what someone's going to do in that seat. Are we comfortable with giving this award to the Vikings keeping Byron Murphy? Yeah, I think you sold me on that as even more impactful than Jair Alexander. Okay, and I would also throw Tooney in there as a good one as well. So let's get to the next one. Then the most underrated move in the NFC North.

What did you have for this one? I actually went with Ryan Kelly, the Viking center. He was somebody I was really high on this offseason. I would have wanted the Bears to pursue him in free agency and the Vikings got him at a really good cost. I think he's going to be a really solid, stabilizing figure in there for JJ McCarthy to have that experience at a veteran center.

And I know he was dealing with injuries a little bit this past season, but I don't think it's been like a long-term problem for him. We're like, yeah, he'll miss a game or two here and there, but generally he's played more than a dozen games in pretty much every season of his career. So like, yeah, he's getting older. He's 30, but turned 32,

but like on a short term couple of year deal to just stabilize that spot. So a young quarterback has that center that he just knows that connections, the protections are always gonna be exactly where it needed to be. I think that's just like a really, really solid move. And I said at the time, I would have rather had Ryan Kelly at the price, the

Vikings paid for him than drew Dolman at the price, the bears paid for him. Oh, that's a really good point. And gosh, they made so many overhaul moves. We didn't even mention. Dolman is one of them. I don't think that he's going to have a massive, massive impact on that offense. He is a good run blocker and with Ben Johnson that's going to help, but I don't think it changes the

realities of Caleb Williams holding onto the ball and Dalmond giving up some pressures there. But as far as Ryan Kelly goes, when you add the fact that he has worked with many different quarterbacks through his years, and now he's taking over a guy who's

never played before that he can just be that guiding force, the other part of it too is, and you know this, any NFC North team that played the he's taking over a guy who's never played before that he can just be that guiding force. The other part of it too is, and you know this, any NFC North team that played the Vikings in the past few years, who did they attack? In pass protection, the center, Akeem Hicks. That guy made a lot of hay on his pro football reference page and his PFF pages off of playing against Garrett Bradbury because Bradbury was so undersized and in the straight drop back game, you could just get to the quarterback.

If you attacked him, that is not the case with Ryan Kelly. This is a big giant center who is really excellent over his career in pass protection. And you go from probably as poor as it gets in pass protection, the league to top 10 in pass protection with Ryan Kelly. If he stays healthy, I agree. That's a great pick. I went with Levi on Wazirki signing for almost nothing to back to the Detroit Lions.

He's a guy that didn't get a lot of sacks last year, but he had something like 50 pressures. He was one of the best. His numbers were not that far away in pressures from the best defensive tackles in the NFL. He just didn't rack up the sack numbers, but he's still coming along and developing as a player. And he's also got McNeil next to him. He's got Tyler Williams now coming in and that nose tackle position with lots of other talent and Aiden Hutchinson, he can fit in really well there.

And this might just be because he had a nine pressure game against the Vikings that I'm saying that, but I could not believe how quickly he signed. I was trying to find what he signed for one year, $5 million, like what in the world? I was shocked, totally shocked that he signed a contract for almost nothing after having such a good breakout season going into free agency.

He's another guy who I thought the Bears would have gone after a lot harder with it with the Ben Johnson connection. And it's something with those conversations where it's like, I'd almost rather have on was Riké at one year, $5 million and what the Bears played paid Grady Jarrett. I mean, I like Grady Jarrett, but value and age and upside there and Jarrett coming off injury. Like I think that's a, that value in age and upside there and dirt coming off injury. Like I think that's a, that's a really sneaky, smart one. That's easy to kind of overlook.

Cause again, it is, it is a re signing there and it's kind of the generated moves are all about value and getting more bang for your buck there. And it seems like both of these moves in the trenches really hit that whole hole. The other one for the Vikings that I would go with is Jordan Mason. Because he averaged over five yards to carry, which I know you and I could average at least four and a half playing for San Francisco. So we have to throw that in there. But what the Vikings have been lacking in the backfield is a

short yardage presence, somebody who runs with some violence and a duo, they have not had an effective duo and everybody talks about how they want to do. Oh, and they talk about how wonderful it is if you have one. But then look around the league, how many teams actually can say, Oh, yeah, we have two guys that we can rotate in and stay healthy and fresh all the time. If Aaron Jones were to get banged up, you have Jordan Mason there. But also, you don't want Aaron Jones carrying the ball 250 times again,

like he did last year. I think it takes short yardage pressure off of JJ McCarthy, which Sam Darnold just had to throw all the touchdowns because they could not get in from three yard line last year. That could have a trickle down effect of getting in some shorter yardage situations, having Aaron Jones out there at 100% more often. And then just, you know, just bringing a little violence to the game. I really liked the style that he runs. The one thing I'll push back with Jordan Mason, I think is a good addition, all that stuff, but as far as an underrated move, I know they hardly gave up much for him in a trade, but you still gave up some amount of draft

capital in swaps in trade when you look at free agency and maybe Mason is better than a lot of the options, a lot of the cheap options, but between Kaleel Herbert and Miles Sanders and Cream Hunt and Raheem Mostard and Rico Donald and Gervonta Williams, a lot of these guys signed for one year cheap contracts that could be just as good or better than Jordan Mason without having to give up the draft capital. That wasn't very much, I'll admit, but like a little bit of draft capital versus the Euro draft capital, unless, unless compensatory pick formula

was a big part of the equation there for the Vikings. Like there's a lot of other ways to get running back. So I'd have to move in the draft. And it might have been the, the compact formula might have been because they've been so short on draft capital the last couple of years. Where, you know, Dowdle is a guy that had a pretty good year last year and no one seemed to care. This whole idea that, oh, well, the running back prices are going up, turned out to be completely false. And really even it was, oh, are we going to see a bunch of

them get drafted high? And it was not that many. I mean, some, but not that many. And what maybe like a slightly, but I also think Ohio state, those two running backs were exceptional. So them sneaking into the early part of the second, but it wasn't like a running back revolution and there's eight taken in the first 40 picks or something. And Najee Harris got nothing from the chargers. Pretty clear that the NFL did not think a whole lot of him. So those guys were out there. Uh, but we're talking like a pick swap.

I mean, we're not talking like giving up huge draft capital to get Jordan Mason. He's also younger than some of these free agents as well. So I think I would go between on was Zirke and Jordan Mason for that move. Is there is there aer underrated move? Or does every Bayer move get so much attention and love in the off season that there couldn't possibly be an underrated move? Yeah, that's a big part of it.

I mean, I think before they drafted Luther Burden, I thought Olamide Zaccheaus, the wide receiver from Washington, was a nice underrated move that just a really solid number three who came super, super cheap on a short deal, but now he's kind of number four and buried on the depth chart.

So no, nothing really jumps out. I mean, I think. Toony is still underrated despite how much love that move has got. He is so good. And I think that's like the best move of the off season, the bears made despite it getting the attention, it's underrated, but no, I don't think there's one that really qualifies elsewhere. Okay.

So, uh, you, you make the call here. Who do you want to go with for most underrated move? I would go with own Reque from Detroit over Jordan Mason. I still think I like my Ryan Kelly agreement, especially with, with we'll freeze, you get the sort of the connection there that those guys get to stay together, plus you get to mentor a rookie left guard, but, but if we're, if, if it's, if we're going with those other two, then I'll go lions in the defensive tackle. Okay.

I mean, one year, $ million dollars is just for a guy that had a lot of pressures is very odd when a team paid twenty six million for Milton Williams. Let's go now to the most overrated move. And my nomination was every Bears move. No, I'm just kidding. I'm just you knew you were getting roasted on this podcast. You came anyway. I give you credit for it.

But who did you have for the most overrated? I was a little bit torn here because I do think Jonah Jackson belongs in this conversation, but much like the Jordan Taylor, like they gave up what a fifth round pick for him or late, you know, it's a late round pick, like the salary cap is a, is a stronger arm there, but I'm going to go a little bit spicy here for, for your listeners and say, Jonathan Allen. I just think the amount of money they gave up for him, not to say it's a bad move, but if we're talking about overrated move, I think he struggled a bit the last couple of seasons, even before the injury this past season. But then you add in that he's coming off of an injury.

And I know there's, there's always been some lingering sort of locker room personality questions about Jonathan Allen as well. And perhaps I think Brian Flores is the kind of coach that can handle that just fine. But there's just all these sort of like lingering little red flags about Allen. Then you add in the money on top of that. And it's like, and the age and the injuries. And it's like, yeah, he can be a very good player for them, but maybe not the gigantic, huge, huge splash that everyone's like, Whoa, the Vikings got Jonathan Allen. This changes everything. Like, yeah, we'll see. No, I think that's a great nomination actually, because, uh, and since I've just, uh, torched you so far, uh, then you deserve to fight back a little bit on this, but I think your

logic on it is completely fair. When we look at the recent production of Jonathan Allen, it's just not what it used to be. Now, I would say that when you have a rookie quarterback, you can hand out a contract that's too much and you just go, who cares? If he is 75% of what he was in 2021 or 2022, that's still way better than what they had, which was nothing in terms of interior pressure. He had seven pressures in a playoff game against the Detroit Lions, and he can still get after the quarterback.

But if we're comparing just on a pure basis of what you gave him versus what his recent production is, plus the risk of coming off of an injury last year, it's probably an overrated move. I don't think it's overrated in the context of the Vikings and what he could mean to them when you already have Van Ginkgel and Grenard and you just badly need interior pressure, but price for player, it's probably the biggest overpay outside of Aaron Banks. And I can't say Aaron Banks is the most overrated move because every single person was like, what in the world are they doing?

So probably not overrated there. I was going to go with either the Colson Loveland draft pick or the Matthew Golden draft pick because I'm thinking that that Packers fans are expecting Matthew Golden to just shred right away. Wow. They drafted this wide receiver. He's going to come in. He's going to kill it.

He's going to take over the North. He's going to be our Jefferson. He's going to be right. And I just don't know if that's going to be that guy. And fundamentally drafting a tight end with the 10th overall pick is so risky to me. We've just seen so many guys either not develop until like a TJ Hockinson until like the fourth year that they're even in the league because it's such a hard position. And I have a joke about averaging 10.2 yards per reception. Every single tight

end in the league averages 10.2 yards per reception. It doesn't matter where you were drafted. Doesn't matter how people talk about you, 10 points of yards per reception, you probably could have gotten a second round or a third round or to do that unless the guy is truly special. Actuaries are truly global. Wherever there's risk to manage, they use their math skills to solve real world problems. The society of actuaries has the designation for any destination. I agree with you 100% on the positional value equation there that yes, generally first round tight ends don't tend to work out that well and that you can get good players in second and third

round. Like I was not a huge fan of the broader general concept of drafting a tight end that early, but to narrow this for a second, I think when you look at who was available on the draft board for the Bears at 10 at that point, Loveland and Tyler Warren were kind of the two clear best player, most talented guy options, and otherwise you're, you know, you're reaching for an edge rusher like Mikel Williams from Georgia at that point, like, and doesn't really do it for me as a top 10 caliber player there or a defensive lineman, like Kenneth Grant goes a little

Later to Miami, but the tackles were gone So it's there wasn't a great other option for the Bears there and it's like well I I guess we'll take the tight end and you know, hopefully he's a very good player like that's sort of the plan But I think they would have preferred one of the tackles had made it there There had been a pass pressure, but it was like well This is this is the best with what we got here and maybe trade down options weren't what they wanted to be I think that's totally fair because the players who come off the board right after our guys that were reaches, whether it's, you know, a Tyler Booker

or a I like Kenneth Grant a lot. So maybe I don't want to call him a reach, but versus what the consensus thought, it probably is somewhat of a reach. Still, it's a tight end who's going to average 10.2 yards per reception. And when, you know, the Bears get a guy like Still, it's a tight end. Who's going to average 10.2 yards per reception. And when you know, the Bears get a guy like that, there's an assumption that he's just going to be an automatic superstar. But I think we'll go with we will go with Jonathan Allen getting the most overrated award.

I think that that is that is fine. And we'll see how it turns out for him. Okay. Our next one is our first kind of strange or funny award, which is the silliest rumor or drama of the off season in the NFC North. Who would you give that award to for the silliest drama rumors? This could happen. That could happen. Where would you put that? I think there's one big obvious one that we would both say. And so I'll start there, but I've got an alternative. But I think the Aaron Rodgers Viking stuff is kind of the elephant in the room there.

And I'm sure you have more of a sense of like what, where information was coming from there than maybe the rest of us on the outside. But that never to me felt like a super serious proposal, at least from the Viking side, that maybe Rodgers wanted to go there, but Vikings sure maybe entertain it or whatever, but like that, come on, they're not going to sign Aaron Rodgers to start over Jajan McCarthy for his rookie season. And that's, we're all kind of tired of hearing about Aaron Rodgers. So the other one I would throw out there was the Jameson Williams trade rumors that the some of the lions were going to draft a wide receiver in the first round and then trade

Jameson Williams. Like I know Brad Holmes shut that one down pretty, pretty adamantly once it got to him. But like how that one even got legs in the first place is strange to me that even if they drafted a wide receiver, like you would keep all three of them. It's not like the last year of Jameson Williams contract is yet. I don't think and you got opportunities to have an even more explosive offense with all those wide receivers in there. Like that one never made any sense that I didn't know why people were running with it. Okay. So the Aaron Rodgers thing, wide receivers in there like that one never made any sense and I didn't know why people were running with it. Okay, so the Aaron Rodgers thing, I don't think that us talking about it was silly. The idea of actually bringing him here was silly to me. They made by far the right decision in sticking with

JJ McCarthy. Some of the reporting and the conversation and the fans and this whole attacking Diana Rossini every day. That all was pretty silly in the way that Vikings fans on the Internet acted. But I have a different one, which is somebody proposed a Jordan Addison for sauce gardener trade and sauce gardener responded to it online, which then made it a rumor. And I'm like, no, I don't think that's how this works I think for something to be a rumor someone credible has to say I heard that this is a possibility Then we say well, there's a rumor that this could be happening or it's you know

This isn't really official yet But people are kind of in the league talking about this or that. That's what a rumor is. A rumor is not somebody making up a totally bogus trade that neither team would do and then the player responding to it being like, maybe like, it just doesn't that to me is beyond silly is when people are making up trades and then we are calling them rumors. I also think too, that you mentioned the Jair Alexander thing, but that reached a level of silliness too of every day.

It's just what's going on with Jair Alexander. Here's 72 trade proposals for Jair Alexander. And it's just, it doesn't look like he's going anywhere because usually teams don't let their good players go places unless they get a lot for them. That's I think that's where I would end up landing. I kind of missed the Addison Gardner stuff when it happened. Was that before they resigned Byron Murphy, at least, or was that even after Murphy was in the loop, they said they'd still trade for sauce Gardner? Yeah, I think that it was after Byron Murphy returned, but I don't remember.

I mean, it's still, it's not a rumor. It's a made up fake, would you do this trade that then somehow becomes a rumor. And then there was something else with Asante Samuel Jr. which hasn't happened, which was also pretty silly. People are doing anything to make transactions happen. How about just the obsession with rumors as like, maybe we should give the silliest rumor award to just this off season,

which I think the temperature got turned up on absurdity, even with the Aaron Rogers stuff, or maybe especially with the Aaron Rogers stuff that we have gone to the point where every little murmur or piece of discussion is this is happening. We all have to aggregate it a gazillion times. Like I think this year it went to a different level. It's weird that, you know, like last off season was the off season. Like everybody wants Aaron Rogers and where's he going to go?

And like that had its, and then he's doing the darkness retreat. We're all waiting on Rogers and like that had its own level of service. And yet it feels like it's escalated now in an offseason when no one seems to want Aaron Rodgers. Like despite the interest being completely reversed there on who has the leverage that hasn't slowed down or quieted down all that much. Like despite him there hasn't been nearly as much public talk from Rogers. Like we got a visit with the Steelers and then a couple of Pat McAfee appearances but like last year it was McAfee every week

and the darkness retreat and all these different Rogers things he was doing and everyone was in on everything. And he himself has been a little bit, I think a little bit quieter this off season and yet the noise hasn't really come down much at all. I don't know if we could throw this under a rumor thing, but maybe we could because the Jets have not really confirmed it.

And we also don't know how much of things that come out of Aaron Rogers mouth are true. So the rumor of how the meeting went down between Aaron Rogers and the Jets might get the silliest. It's not exactly. It's only NFC North adjacent because it's Rogers, but I think I'm going to try to make it count anyway. And you know, right? I think that counts because the whole thing was if he asked to leave the jets to sign with somewhere like the Vikings, I'm going to make it count anyway.

But yes, everything regarding Aaron Rodgers does win the first annual ever silliest rumor or drama award. Now let's go on to the next one. This is where I was going to go with Jonathan Allen rather than overrated. I was going to go with the riskiest move because of the way the contract is set up. He's here for at least two years. And if he's not, then it's going to be a big cap hit for the Minnesota Vikings. So that's who I had as the riskiest move. If it works out and he's the old version to him, oh my gosh, it's going to be incredible. But it could also just be a situation where you go, that did not turn out to be

worth what they paid him. And it was probably the age, probably the injury and all that sort of stuff. And the investment that they put into him. And I know that numbers are fake, but like $20 million a year is a lot for somebody like that. So that's who I had for the riskiest move award. Who did you have? I was initially going to go Aaron Banks from the Packers just given how much money they had spent on him and we talked

about him a little bit earlier, but I in the course of our conversation. I've talked myself back into Jonah Jackson of the bear being the riskiest move because the because the Bears don't really have a good alternative on the roster right now, if he gets hurt again for the third straight season. Like if Banks doesn't work out for the Packers and he doesn't really have the same injury history, but like they've got, Jordan Morgan,

their first one picked from a couple of years ago on the bench, they drafted Anthony Belt in the second round. They've got some flexibility in the offensive line where if they lose a guy, they could kind of shift around and still have five pretty good starters. But the Bears really don't have much consistent depth on the interior right now. And Jonah Jackson played four games last year, 12 games the year before that and 13 the year before that.

So he's played what? 29 games in three seasons. He's going to I mean, odds are he's going to miss some time this year for the Bears. And like they got Ryan Bates, who they traded for from the Bills last off season as kind of their top interior backup. They used a six round pick on Luke Newman from Michigan State I mean There's just not a really good like plan B if Jonah Jackson is hurt again and he gets hurt a lot and it's not maybe His fault but everyone's expecting Oh Ben Johnson's gonna get him back to Pro Bowl caliber play and like maybe if he's healthy But like that's the bigger concern for me there

Well, the other part of it too too, with the Pro Bowl caliber play is I think that offensive linemen impact each other. And I don't have a study to show exactly that, but it's just been one of those intuitive things. If you play next to somebody great on both sides of you, it's going to help you. I think he had that in Detroit when he was at his absolute best. And when he didn't have that, he was not as good. And then you add the injury element to it. How many injuries can you have in

the NFL before it impacts your quality of play over a couple of seasons? Another one for the Detroit Lions, which would be a risky move, was them bringing back Marcus Davenport, which I don't understand. The guy over the last two seasons has barely played any football and they're still rolling the dice trying to bring him back. And as of right now, he would have to play a pretty serious role. But how do you feel about this one? Maybe is the riskiest move not franchise tagging Sam Darnold? I'm not saying it's the not not the right move.

I think it's the right move. But taking a quarterback that won 14 games through 35 touchdowns and then saying, yeah, we're going to let you go to the Seattle Seahawks rather than running it back with this really good roster that was in contention all the way until they had to fly to Glendale, Arizona. And then just saying it's all right. If you leave, we're not going to tag you. We're just going to let you go and sign with the Seattle Seahawks moving to a brand new quarterback who's never played before with a roster that's ready to win now, I think might actually win the riskiest move award.

I think the one the one thing that I guess I maybe two things I push back there is one he's projected to get the Vikings a third round compensatory pick next year. So it's like, it's not as though they lost him for quote unquote, nothing. I mean, we'll see exactly how the formula plays out, but like that's a fairly significant investment. Are they going to get, would they have gotten more than that for him in a trade? Maybe. But we don't know exactly what the market would materialize there.

And I still like, you know, the fact that they go out and add Sam Howell at quarterback, like, yes, not 14 wins starting quarterback, who already knows the offense, but at least you've got somebody else there who's played some NFL games before. And it's not just Brett Rippon as quarterback three, the Chicago Bears legend, Brett Rippon quarterback three there. So, you know, yes, I agree, there's a lot of risk there, but I think you sort of assumed this risk when you draft the quarterback in the first round the year before, like they were always going to be taking on this risk as soon as JJ McCarthy was ready to play.

It just happened to be a year later than they thought. I just think more of from a bigger picture. I think about it. If we didn't know the names and we didn't know the circumstance. And I just told you, Hey, an NFL team had a quarterback when 14 games, and then they just let him go for nothing outside of a comp pick. You'd be like. In the football, in the, in the NFL, like this really happened.

I mean, it sounds like something someone tells you about happened in 1962. They're like, oh yeah, the St. Louis Browns, they let this quarterback go after he won all these games and to do it and now it's a first round pick and he gets to play with Jefferson and Addison and Kevin O'Connell. And the logic works that you can add so much more to the roster. If you don't franchise tag Sam Darnold, but it is risky when a quarterback has never played before.

So where do you want to go with this? Now I just wanted to present all possible risk options for our riskiest move award. I was just gonna say I'm old enough to remember when the Chicago Bears moved on from a 13 win Rex Grossman in 2000. Well, Donald did not play like Rex Grossman, though. I mean, he played well. He was in the Pro Bowl.

Oh, yeah. No, not to make them the same quarterback, but just the idea that teams move on from winning quarterbacks sometimes, and ultimately it's probably for the best of the franchise. I don't know, I'm not as keen on Sam Donald winning this, but I'm open to the other names we talked about here. I get what you mean by big picture, it does seem crazy, but there's enough context where it's like, it wasn't like a big surprise.

And I feel like part of risk there is like, whoa, we're not sure if the Vikings made the right choice there. And I think even you said like they did the right thing, even if the right thing is still risky. So I see I see your point, but it feels like it failed a little bit of the spirit of the award there. Like there's real danger for the team that signed Jonah Jackson or Jonathan Allen.

And I think those are kind of the areas I lean a little bit more with that. If that goes wrong, they're going to be screwed in a big way. OK, and if we're talking about screwed in a big way, it's Jonah Jackson more than Jonathan Allen. If Jonathan Allen is just the same player he was last year for Washington, they also have Javon Hargrave, Harrison Phillips. It's a stacked D line. It's not going to crush their souls. If you spend a lot to get Jonah Jackson, you bring him in and his contract and then he plays four games for you.

That's a total disaster. So the riskiest move award will go to Jonah Jackson, you bring him in and his contract, and then he plays four games for you. That's a total disaster. So the riskiest move award will go to Jonah Jackson. All right. Two more, two more real quick. How about this one? This is a fun one. The completely random player who you talked about way too much award. This was hard to narrow down to just one. I'm going to give you the one bear and one non bear just to keep it more NFC North interesting.

The bear I think I talked way too much about this offseason was Jack Sanborn, the linebacker. He was an undrafted free agent for them out of Wisconsin a couple of years ago and the third linebacker in their base defense. So like technically kind of a starter, but you know, really only played like 300 snaps last season. The Bears had his restricted free agent rights. They chose to not tender him. He walks and reunites with Matt Eberhuss on the Dallas Cowboys and Bears fans were pissed and Bears fans

are still pissed and they haven't really specifically replaced him in a concrete way. They used a fourth run pick on a linebacker Ruben Hippolyte who was projected to go undrafted. So is he going to be the starter or one of the other backups from last year? Like people were mad about Jack Sanmore and we spent too much time talking about a base defense linebacker who, Dennis Allen was never really that interested in because he wanted more speed on defense. But the non-barrel throw in there

is actually someone I already mentioned. A wide receiver, Tim Patrick from the Lions is someone who I would have bet money he was gonna be a Chicago bear this off season. We talked about him in free agency all over. Number three receiver, good blocker, good receiver. Like nothing special, but just like a glue guy that could help the transition for Ben Johnson. I said Tim Patrick's name over and over and over again, and he resigned with the lions,

and that was a waste of time. Yeah, there were, oh gosh, I mean, the number of the number of players, the Vikings could have drafted that I talked about too much. Derek Harman is definitely the guy that I had projected as their pick. He goes a few picks earlier. I don't know if they would have done it or not. Jaday Baron was another one. That's but that goes for every draft season. As far as just overall in the offseason, I think the random player

that we've talked about way too much or I mean, it's not way too much because he's going to play. But just if you went to any other fan base, if you went and told a Jaguars fan, we've been talking a lot about Theo Jackson, they'd be like. Theo Jackson, who is that? And that's because Kam Bynum left in free agency and the Vikings did not sign another safety outside of bringing back Harrison Smith, which puts Theo Jackson in line.

This is a former are you Google and Theo Jackson right now? Because I don't blame you if you are. This is a former sixth round. I can see it in your face. I had to like who is he talking about? This is the reason I'm saying it because this is a sixth round draft pick of the Titans who was released by or not released but picked up off their practice squad by the Vikings when Lewis seen got hurt and then he developed behind the scenes he has an incredible training camp last year but doesn't play almost at all because everybody was healthy and then now they're talking about we love the Jackson. Harrison Smith said the other day, I think he's big time about Theo Jack. And he was like, what, what?

I mean, it's not that crazy when you consider that Anthony Harris or cam Bynum became really good safeties next to Harrison Smith. But when, when you can take even someone like yourself, who's all in on the NFC North and you're like, I'm not sure I know what you're talking about. That really shows you how deep in the weeds it is that we have spent this much time on Theo Jackson. Yeah, I spent the first like 45 seconds of that thinking you were talking about Theo Johnson, the tight end for the Giants. And I was like, wait, when did they get when did they get Theo Johnson? But then, okay, yeah, I gotta tell you, that's gotta be the winner here. Because I got the person you've you know, who Jack, you had heard of Jack Sanborn, the Bears linebacker. Yeah did. Yeah. Yeah. Blank stare on your face, but Theo Jackson was not a name that had ever

come across my radar once. And I did indeed Google him and had to find him on the line. And then on the Vikings depth chart, once you said safety, I was like, oh, there he is. Okay. I see now who you're talking about. Yeah. I will say the other one that gets, and I'm sure both of us were in this bucket. Now I got to, I got to pull up the names who this would have been, but I'll, I'll get this the free agent offensive lineman in hindsight.

You feel really silly having talked about them as much as you did. Like they signed Will, Will fries. So he's like the top guy in free agency. But I mean, the number of like that, not even Aaron Banks is, but like. I got to scroll down to get names here. You know, should they sign this guy? Should they sign that guy like, oh, well, Will Hernandez for me is one for sure that I've talked about a million times on the show. Hey, you know, he's a free agent.

Maybe they should pick him up. Just never comes to fruition. As we're talking about all the different random players that could be on your team. The other one for the Vikings is Isaiah Rogers, who is going to start. And when they signed him, I didn't think that that was really going to be the case. I thought, well, they'll get another corner as well. And now it's actually going to be justified because it looks like he's going to be their starter.

Did you mention free agent offensive lineman, the one that was easy for me? And this guy was in this conversation of player I talked too much about this offseason, but didn't quite make the cut was Kevin Zeitler from the Lions. Oh, sure. Yep Yes Titans. Oh, we did it. Yeah in heaven, right bears need offensive lineman badly Lions veteran starting right guard is available in free agency. No dub Ben Johnson's gonna go get his guy We were we were writing in pencil Kevin Zeitler into this Bears depth chart Of course, then the Jonah Jackson and Joe Tooney trades happened before free agency.

So then by the time free agency started, we knew he wasn't going to be coming here, but like for January, February, in the beginning of March, Oh, this is, this is the easiest free agents. I need to call. We were just operating almost like it's assumed at this point. So it's definitely in that conversation. Good call. Uh, I like this.

I like this. This could just continue to go on because of the number of free agents that we start to plug into different rosters and well, you know, you could get him and go there. Uh, but I think Theo Jackson is going to win this award, which, uh, brings us to our final award. The most likely 2025 NFC North champion award goes to who do you think will win the NFC North this year?

I think the NFC North is going to go like we thought the NFC North would go last year where like I was saying all last offseason, I think all four of these teams are probably going to be generally in the mix and you know, they're all going to finish about a win apart where first place has, you know, 11 or 12 apart where first place has 11 or 12 wins, second place has 10 or 11 wins, and third and fourth place have nine or 10 wins, and only a couple of them are gonna make the playoffs. And so I think these guys are all gonna be close,

but I still gotta lean Detroit Lions until otherwise. I don't think they're gonna win 15 games again. I think, like I said, maybe 11, and that's fine, and that can be just as good for them to win the division, but I think the Packers will be right there at 10 or 11 wins. I think the Vikings can be right there at 10 or 11 wins. And I think the Bears are probably more like eight or nine or maybe even 10 on

the best case scenario kind of wins where they're not going to win the division. No, but they can be in the playoff conversation there. The fringe wild card conversation and then the other three teams are all neck and neck and it kind of comes down to a week 18 Packers Lions game for the division or something along those lines. Somebody is not going to be who we think they are. And I don't know who that's going to be because I think Matt LaFleur is a really good coach. The Bears have certainly improved massively.

The Vikings have improved off of a team that was right there in the mix last year. And the Lions still have all the roster, but they don't have all their coaches. So is that going to have an impact and they slide back or is it going to be this freakish division? It kind of was last year and the Bears were a few not giving up a Hail Mary because you're making fun of the crowd type of plays or just throw out one of these Iberflues,

throw out that tee, throw out that timeout and you're good to go. I mean, they really should have been more like an eight win team and instead been more like an eight win team and instead were not an eight win team because of the coaching. So, you know, I could, I could see it being the closest division, but here's what we know though. They also said that about the AFC North last year because remember

the Browns had made the playoffs with Joe Flacco and it's like, well, they're going to be right in it and Cincinnati should,, you know, compete for a Superbowl and the Steelers always get 10 wins and the Ravens are great. There's always that one that just has it all go down and we don't know who that's going to be. Yeah. I, it, we usually the, the elephant in the room there is like, well, then it's going to be the bears, right?

Like, I mean, that's kind of, yeah, I didn't want to say it. Find myself feeling like, well, the Vikings have the biggest quarterback, can we say biggest quarterback question mark there where it's like volatility. McCarthy could either step in and be great. And they're a 12 win team or McCarthy could really struggle on your one. And then they're down. But you feel like Kevin O'Connell is a good enough coach. They're not going to like bottom out and be picking in the top 10 of the draft because they got They got enough talent around him that even if he struggles So then it's like it's hard to see like the Packers really bottoming out minus an injury

But like they're still a young team They kept a lot of their talent around their good coach And then the Lions like are they gonna go from 15 wins to five like is losing your coaches that much of a difference? Probably not so it's sort of a big injury. It's hard to envision anybody finishing with fewer than, I don't know, six or seven wins at the absolute worst for the Bears if they're gonna be in fourth place there. Like that feels like the floor for any of these teams,

but I don't know that any team is set up to go win 14 or 15 again either. I think Detroit has earned the right to win the most likely team to win the NFC North Award, but I would not guarantee it. And a lot of it might just come down to how these teams play against each other. And then everybody's got a tougher schedule this year with the divisions that they're playing who handles that the best and feel, you know, even with a team like Detroit, sometimes we just never see it coming that they have a bunch of bad things happen to them, but maybe that was last year with all the injuries that they

had on the defensive side. Sometimes, I mean, look at now I know Jerry Jones runs Dallas, but Dallas had the top offense in the league just a year ago and sometimes what, for whatever reason and the coaching changes might matter, you know, Dan Quinn, not coaching their defense anymore or Philadelphia came off that trip to the Superbowl and Shane Steichen moved on and took them a year to recover from that. So, uh, you never know. That's why it's fun to watch the football games and how they play out. But this first annual ever of all time NFC North

Awards show was great. And that was because of your contribution. Lauren Cox locked on bears. Thank you so much for having a little fun with me here in the off season and you know, we'll definitely do another podcast soon. We'll have games to prepare for a season to get ready for. So we'll definitely have you back again. Thank you so much, my friend. Of course. Thanks for having me.