Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - NFL playoff reactions and Vikings connections: Stefanski, Rodgers, Diggs and journeyman QBs

Episode Date: January 18, 2021

Matthew Coller and Paul Hodowanic dive deep into the weekend of playoff games, reacting to what is possibly the final game Drew Brees ever plays to the Brady/ Rodgers matchup and what this year means for Aaron Rodgers... is it his last dance? Plus a look at some aggressive decisions by Andy Reid and not-so aggressive by Kevin Stefanski. Yes, sorry in advance, we discuss another big game for Stefon Diggs and what Matthew wrote about him for PurpleInsider.substack.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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with Drizzly or Instacart, Coors Brewing Company, Golden, Colorado, and as always, celebrate. Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, in which myself, Matthew Collar, and Paul Hodowanek react to what we saw in playoff football. And we are talking just as Drew Brees is walking off the field, waving to whatever fans are in the Superdome for the very last time after a extremely ugly game between the Tampa Bay Bucs and the New Orleans Saints. So I have three questions for you pertaining some to the Vikings, some to the kind of big picture of the league. You have three questions for me, and I'm just going to open it up to you first.

Paul, where do you want to begin with this divisional playoff weekend? Well, you just mentioned Drew Brees, and that's the game we just finished watching. Maybe we want to do something on that. Jay Glazer reported before this game it's probably the end for Drew Brees. We'll see if that actually happens. He seems to love football as much as the Brett Favres of the world, so I wouldn't be shocked if he kind of extends this thing along. Not sure it'd be the best move for the Saints to bring him back,

but I can see Drew Brees wanting to come back. But if this is the final game for Brees, I just want to take in the fact that, like, he only has one Super Bowl. He's only been to one Super Bowl. He's 9-9 in the playoffs, 5-7 since he won the Super Bowl. And these last four years, with pretty good defenses, they have not done well. They obviously lost to Minnesota in the Miracle. Can't really fault Drew Breeze too much there.

They had a valiant comeback. Then the Rams game, the infamous, was it pass interference? Definitely was pass interference, or like whatever that call was that kind of screwed them there. Then last year, not as many excuses. They lose to Minnesota again in a game that they should have won. They were the favorites to win the Super Bowl. And then they lose again here. Like they have not had the success that you'd expect from a Hall of Fame quarterback who is going to go down one-two with Brady and like

pretty much every stat they keep exchanging. So did he underachieve in his career despite all those things? I'm going to say no. When you get a Super Bowl, you are a Super Bowl champion for life and nobody can ever take it away from you and you don't have to apologize to anybody for not having more than one. You know why? The Minnesota Vikings entire franchise for its whole existence has zero and hasn't even been to one since the 1970s. So you can't, as anyone following the Vikings, say, well, you know, you only got one. I mean, the same thing goes for Favre. The same thing goes for Rodgers.

Dan Marino never got one. I mean, there are many of the greatest quarterbacks of all time who got one or never quite got there. And as you laid out, I think a lot of it over these last few years for not getting back to the Super Bowl was just bad luck. I mean, if Marcus Williams tackles Stephon Diggs along the sideline, I don't write a book about it for sure about that game and, you know, the 2017 season. But the New Orleans Saints have a great chance at going to the Super Bowl, at going to Philadelphia and being able to handle that Philly team and stay in it, unlike the Vikings with Case Keenum, but with Drew Brees. And then these last maybe two years, it just hasn't been the same for Brees,

and especially this year. His arm strength was just zapped after he took those hits. I mean, he wasn't throwing the ball particularly hard before that, but then he took that hit that broke a bunch of his ribs. I give him a lot of credit for trying to come back, but there was a point in this game that I thought they just should have started Jameis Winston. He made the best play of the day for them at the quarterback position, and it would have been really sad to see him pulled out of that game. But after maybe the first quarter, it was evident that Drew Brees did not have enough to beat a very good Tampa Bay Bucs defense that has speed and playmakers all over.

And he was throwing balls for interceptions that we just never see Drew Brees throw. But in terms of where he belongs in the annals of the all-time conversation for quarterbacks, he is in the rarest of the rare air, and I don't take anything away that it took a Brett Favre interception in the NFC Championship game for him to get there because he had plenty of bad luck later on. And I think that he will walk away with about the most bitter taste you can have over these last four years because they had the teams for it. They went through that little bit of a lull where they went seven nine a couple of years they had historically bad defenses he put up great numbers he was almost in a deshaun watson type of situation where the team was in flux and they had rob ryan as their defensive coordinator and then one great draft pulled them out of it and they built some of the strongest rosters in the nfl over the last couple of years and and were just not able to get over the hump.

And then this year, it's not Breeze anywhere close to his best going into this game. It would have been, I think, maybe something that Sean Payton had to think about on the sideline. And if Taysom Hill had been healthy for this game, maybe we see a healthy dose of Taysom Hill. Maybe it goes differently. It was a close game all the way through, and then just at the end, one last bad Drew Brees interception pretty much put the end to it. So that's a sad way for him to end it, to walk off the field with that interception, and he's got a lot of regrets to have, but I don't think that it's a ding to say that he doesn't have that Super Bowl.

And you know what? If Brady goes to Lambeau Field and beats Aaron Rodgers, I'm not going to say, Rodgers? Who needs him? He only has one Super Bowl. Yeah, I think once you get there, you get there. And his place in history, Breeze, is completely solidified among the all-time greats. Yeah, I tend to agree. He's got the Super Bowl. He has all those amazing records and like just consistency year over year over year in years where the Saints were just horrible defensively. Not like, you know, the Kansas City Chiefs can make enough plays and the homes can play well enough. Like not that type of defense. Like, no, we're going to give up like 35 points every game type of defense. Like Vikings 2020 defense for like six years in a row so like the

fact that he was able to withstand that have this like second part of his career when the defense finally caught up that he was able to do the things that he did with michael thomas and alvin kamara like he's done really really great things but i also don't think then we can say that he has had a great career and it's not like he underachieved but we can also say these last four years have been disappointing because they have with where the expectations were with how talented like they've had the deepest rosters for years and years so the fact that they really don't have like they have like one playoff win to show for it or two I guess if you like with this Bears one which is half a playoff win maybe so it these last years are going to – like it's sad because he is such a good

quarterback and he probably deserves a little bit better, but it's not going to be that way. I'm sure Vikings fans aren't going to be sad to see him go considering he took away one of the better shots they had of making a Super Bowl, the bounty gate year, everything that coincides with that game, field goal in overtime. There's going to be no sad feelings for many Vikings fans if this is the end for him.

But I was sad seeing that last interception fall into the hands of one of the Bucs receivers because I like watching really, really great quarterbacks, and he is one of those guys. And it just seemed like an unceremonious end to a really, really great career. See, I think Vikings fans should be sad about it a little bit. He's been a great foe. Sometimes they've gotten him, like the last two times they met in the playoffs.

Sometimes he's gotten them, like in 2009. And then other games that they played during the regular season were always interesting. Maybe there was one blowout mixed in there in 2014. But when they played in 2018, that was an interesting game and a battle that went back and forth between Mike Zimmer's defense and Drew Brees and Brees never played or rarely played really great against Mike Zimmer's defense it was always this great battle and I mean the Minneapolis

Miracle game the second half of that game is the best quarterback play I have ever witnessed in person hands down I have never seen a quarterback play I have ever witnessed in person, hands down. I have never seen a quarterback play better than Drew Brees, especially considering that that place was insanely loud. And here he is on fourth down, dealing for perfect passes to get first downs and bring his team back in the game. So a ton of respect for him. And I think that Vikings fans should look at it that way,

is they really had some heavyweight bouts against Drew Brees through the years. And even though now New Orleans won't be as tough of a team to face if they have to face them in the future in the playoffs, if they're going against Taysom Hill, it's not going to be the same as going against Drew Brees. But respect the era of having these battles for so long against somebody that was that great. And, you know, you came out with some, they came out with some.

My first question for you is about Andy Reid. And Andy Reid pulled off one of the most gutsy moves that I have ever seen in the NFL. And that was having Chad Henney throw on fourth down. And I joked on Twitter, adopt me, Andy Reid. I mean, just aggressiveness is something that you and I have talked about all season long in decisions and game management. And, yes, Chad Henney threw a terrible interception on first and 25, I think it was, which made no sense.

And he had a check down option wide open too. I don't get it. But he's Chad Henney. It's like, I'm in the playoffs. Wee! Let's just let this ball go. But for him to do that and for Andy Reid to still come back and trust him on fourth down after, by the way, he had one of the most improbable plays in sports of Chad Henney running

for 13 yards and diving and nearly getting the first down. No one would have ever had that one on your bingo board. And then, but to call that, not only is it a, I mean, you thought maybe a sneak was possible or a handoff, but he goes with a passing play for his backup quarterback was just an incredibly gutsy move and the aggressiveness that I think is paying off. Aggressiveness actually did pay off for the Browns a couple times to get themselves back in the game, but then four minutes left, fourth down and nine, they decide, nah, you know, we're just going to punt it away, try to play defense against Chad Henney, and they never touched the ball again. And we have seen

this multiple times with teams during this playoff where when you decide to punt it away, somebody's going to take advantage of it because that's offense in the year 2021. The Steelers did it. They punted away their game. The Titans punted away their game last weekend. And Andy Reid said, no, I am not putting this away I would rather have Chad Henney throw it two yards than I would decide to put it in the hands of Baker Mayfield who had been playing really well I thought Baker Mayfield had a great game against Kansas City and really gave them a shot so credit to Andy Reid and I just think and this is my question for you I think this is where the game is going to go.

I think that every coach in five years is going for it on fourth down all the time. But tell me if you agree with that or if this was just Andy Reid just saying, hey, I already got a Super Bowl ring. I'll do whatever I want. Throw it out there, Chad Henney. I think it is the wave, and I forget who I heard this from, but basically they were like, we're going to look back in 20 years, and we're going to look at it like baseball now looks at bunting or something like that. Why are you giving them a free out?

Why are you just willfully handing the ball back to them? Like, okay, fourth and 15, yeah, makes sense that you're going to give the ball back to them based on the risk reward. But like, the way that the Titans did it with Mike Rabel, where it's like a fourth and one, and they're just giving it right back to them. Like, those days seem to be numbered, because I think the math is just starting to be more like, out there for coaches and GMs and owners are seeing like, how fans are reacting and how everyone's reacting. And so that's going to trickle down. But like, why are they giving the ball back when they might not have to, especially when

you have good quarterbacks like the Tennessee Titans did, Big Ben, but like still fine. So like they should not be giving the ball back to teams like this, especially in the fourth and short situations. So, yes, Andy Reid did it with Chad Henney, which is commendable. He threw on second and eight, and that didn't go – he got – Chad Henney got sacked. And so, like, you could have ran there to bring it down to the two-minute warning. You didn't. Third and 14, you could have just, like, handed the ball off with a draw,

which is I would assume what the Vikings probably would have done, and just let the clock run and then punt it instead you give the ball to Chad Henney he does that scramble play that you know could have been an incomplete pass so that's the risk but then he stayed in bounds and he almost won the game for you on that play so he not only passed on fourth down but he passed on second and third down when both of those could have been runs so like he did it a ton and it wasn't just that one time and then Tony Romo was caught super off guard that they accident or actually decided to do it he broke the audio system on my television but yes it has to be where where things are going because it's just becoming the analytically smart play and that's

kind of where all sports are going. It's where the NFL is going. And so I would be surprised if we see many more fourth-and-one punts because it's just the way it's going, and people are getting absolutely roasted for it now. And so hopefully something changes because it can't keep happening. Well, it's interesting. It reminds me of a conversation I had with Mike Zimmer

because a couple of years ago I wrote an article about fourth downs and about I analyzed all of Mike Zimmer's fourth down decisions from the field. And I kind of wrote about, you know, comparing those two things. And I found that actually Zimmer was pretty good in terms of the chart versus what he had decided in games. But he read the piece and he said to me, well, you're not the one who gets fired if, you know, you decide to go for it and don't get it. And that was true because it used to be that way where owners didn't understand this and so if their coaches went for it you were a whack job oh what's this guy doing going rogue on us not punting the ball away but your point is exactly

correct now all these owners have twitter and they all follow the smart people on twitter with the numbers and they have analytics departments to ask, Hey, did my coach make the right decision here? And if they're, the answer is coming back. No. And if the answer from Twitter and all the smart math people that figured these things out on these decisions, if it's coming back, no, your guy is not making the right decisions or even just seeing it like this was just seeing it. You got four minutes left in one timeout and you punt the ball away you're putting your life in your hands they still have

Tyreek Hill they still have Travis Kelsey I mean they can make plays they still have a great running game and that was a huge risk I think it's much riskier to punt it away and give it to the other offense than it is to go for it and try to get nine yards. So they took that risk, and that didn't pay off. And you're right that the people who are evaluating coaches have shifted, I think, already and will continue to shift, and we've seen this in the league. And it's funny, though, because Mike Zimmer last year, 2019, against Washington, he decided on a QB sneak, I think it may be the Vikings 30,

and he sneaked and they didn't get it, which is a 90% play, usually if you're sneaking that you get it. They didn't get it. And Mike Zimmer called it something like hyperbolic, I forget what it was, the worst decision he's ever made or something like that. And yet the numbers actually said fourth and inches at that part of the field. It's okay. You can go for it there. It's about, you know, maybe it's a coin flip, whether to go for it or not. And he thought it was the worst decision because it didn't work out. But how many times did we see Cleveland go for it on fourth and one fourth and two, get it. A lot of times, those are almost guarantees that you're going to get it's pretty rare that there's a stuff and i think they're understanding that more and i also found it interesting that there's a website a group you know that studies these kind of things who are the best coaches and zimmer had been

decent in this area and this year was kind of more bottom third and i wonder if some of that was just harder situations to be in with his defense or if it was the number shifting a little bit or why that would be I felt like this year he had a tougher time with game management than he had in the past and of course my twitter was lighting up with oh he went you know Stefanski went to the Zimmer school I would defend a lot of his decisions and he's usually been aggressive, but there will be times where you go, I don't get that one. I just don't, I don't understand it. And you know, that, that happened, if that happens at a playoff game, like good example, playing against New Orleans, they run, run, run with Delvin Cook punted away and New Orleans ties the game late. Well,

I mean, you lose the coin flip, you might lose that game. And that goes into the being aggressive is that sometimes you just have to, you know, play it as aggressive as you can and hope it works out for you. Yeah, I think maybe where the frustration with Zimmer is, is you can see that he makes some of these good decisions that are analytically smart. But then in other scenarios, he just, like, blatantly goes against it. So it's not like he has a like set thing like I'm gonna go with the numbers it's more like a gut thing and so sometimes he makes the right calls and sometimes he doesn't and then

you're kind of left wondering what changed in those scenarios because a lot of the times they're very similar like he obviously he tried it against Seattle it didn't work I forget I'm pretty sure there was another time in one one game this year where they punted it away. It didn't work. I forget. I'm pretty sure there was another time in one game this year where they punted it away, and that didn't work. So, like, he's gone both ways, and so that's maybe where the frustration is, is there isn't a clear thing like an Andy Reid would do, maybe like a Kevin Stefanski would do. But you mentioned Stefanski. I just wanted to get it here on the end of this question, how you thought he did in this game game because they obviously started down. They had the huge, like, heartbreaker of the fumble going for a touchback, and everyone went insane for how bad that rule is. But then they decided – so the team recovered from that,

so that's good on Stefanski. But then later they decide to punt the ball back, obviously. They don't go for the two-point conversion earlier in the game to get it back to a one-score game. And he had some weird timeouts, a weird challenge. So he was kind of uneven in this game. I wonder what you thought. I want to remind you about our friends at SodaStick.

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You will love it. That's SodaStick.com. S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com. Original Minnesota sports inspired goods. Code Purple Insider for free shipping. No, I agree. I agree. I agree. I thought that the way that they were able to stay in the game by passing, it's not really their thing.

They are generally a running football team, and they did get running a little bit on a long drive where they scored a touchdown. They had some runs mixed in. But for the most part, they had to dial up drop-back passes, and they had to protect Baker Mayfield, and he had to make good throws, and they had to dial up drop back passes and they had to protect Baker Mayfield and he had to make good throws and they had to dial up plays to get people open and I mean they stayed in the game I was impressed with the way that Baker Mayfield kept fighting some of the details though were like you said they were problematic I mean if this is your one shot this is the first time your franchise has been here in so long and you're going to punt the ball away, and you're going to say, hey, Andy Reid, run the clock out on me.

And the worst part about that is that if you – let's say you don't get it, incomplete pass, they're probably – and as aggressive as Andy Reid is, though, they're probably still playing for a field goal to go up eight there, and you might have one shot left. Or Chad Henney just threw an interception that was ridiculous. So put him there and see if he can score a touchdown on you. Make Chad Henney score a touchdown on you because I'm not buying that he could at that point.

Great job running for 13 yards, Chad Henney. I saw on NextGen he ran almost 18 miles an hour. I never would have bet the over on that one. But make Chad Henney score a touchdown on you if you don't get it. And if you do get it, oh my gosh, you could go win the game. And it's nine yards. It's not 19 yards. It's nine. I mean, Baker Mayfield's average yards per attempt is probably eight in those situations in third down and longs. He's got a strong enough arm he made some tight window throws I think that hurt them I totally agree with the challenge it's just what's the risk versus the reward I mean the risk

is you lose a timeout you when you use one timeout in the second half and the Vikings are very poor at this when you use one timeout in the second half, you lose a possession, basically. If you have all three, then you can get a stop, get the ball back. But if you use even one for something silly like a bad challenge or just the one that I don't get ever is, well, the offense doesn't get to play in their headphones, so you've got to call a timeout. So these five yards, take five yards back and keep your timeout because that might mean an extra possession. The management of timeouts there was not good. That allowed them to get just two first downs and then game over. And this is where it's like every Madden player in the world knows this, that if you have those

timeouts in the second half, they're gold. You want to waste them in the first half. Okay. All right. Whatever. Do not waste them in the second half because that's the end of the game. So that wasn't great. And, you know, the other thing is if you're going to coach a Cleveland team, your number one goal should be to walk out of that building without you ending up in the history of terrible things that have gone wrong for Cleveland that they'll regret forever. And Kevin Stefanski did not achieve that today. The call, it was clearly helmet-to-helmet.

Harrison Smith gets ejected for something pretty similar to that, gets flagged in Tampa Bay for something similar to that. That was kind of shocking, and I don't know why those aren't reviewable. If there's anything that should be reviewable that's a penalty, it's the helmet-to-helmet thing. To not call that so bad, I mean, we could debate the other rule. I don't care. It's the rule it's fine but not

you know not getting that in such a huge situation for the refs I mean it was game altering that game was completely different at that point so you know I think some of it was bad luck some of it was Kansas City's really good and some of it was Stefanski I don't want to say choking but just not making the most efficient plays or the most efficient decisions where we would have actually expected him to make those. And I think that when the pressure gets on some of these guys, and maybe this even goes for veteran coaches, when the pressure is really on, that's where some of these decisions get made that surprise you. Yeah. And on the helmet to helmet thing, I'd like to see the NFL bring

something similar to college where they are reviewing the targeting, even if it's like, just at any point they can review it, see what it looks like. I know in slow motion, things can look a little bit different than what actually happened, but in those obvious cases, you kind of want something that was such a, like, just debilitating play for the Browns, who looked like they were going to score right at the end of the half. They were getting the ball back. You never know what happens. I don't like saying that cost them the game, like, later on when they lose by a possession,

because you never know what happens after that. But, yeah, that was unfortunate. I think, all in all, it's a commendable performance by Stefanski just in his first season to bring the Browns to a point where we're arguing what they should have done in the playoffs like that I agree was a far cry from where they were last year after the Freddy Kitchens debacle so for him to come in and do these things is good uh he's gonna have some things to work on um but that's probably good for him as well uh but but yeah it it was a it was a tough game there at the end for them but overall a great a great season for Kevin Stefanski

and one that probably has Vikings fans questioning some things. And about as tense as you get, like the end of that game and just getting to third and 14 and all that and whether the Chiefs were going to come out. And, man, I hope Patrick Mahomes is okay because Patrick Mahomes, here's an interesting little factoid for Vikings fans who are intrigued by the idea of passing more often the top four teams in terms of expected points added from passing which compares your situation versus what you produce top four

teams in the NFL are the top four teams remaining in passing. So there you have it. And Kansas City and Buffalo, I mean, it doesn't get any better than that, right? Like this could be, if Allen continues to do this, I'm skeptical a little bit, this might be his Carson Wentz year, I don't know. But if it's not, I mean, we could be talking about a Jim Kelly versus Dan Marino or a Peyton Manning versus Tom Brady, where these guys are going back and forth like this for years and years to come. And I don't want to see Chad Henney versus Josh Allen. I want to see Patrick Mahomes, but I hope that he's healthy.

I mean, it was scary to see the hit that he took. So that would be really kind of a kick in the gut if he can't play. I'll move on to my next question, though, for you, Paul, which is Aaron Rodgers this year, just, you know, not washed. Fantastic. Aaron Rodgers. I ran the numbers after they played the Vikings, a game which I followed up by saying I don't think the Packers can win the Super Bowl. I have since took it back, taken it back. They can win the Super Bowl, and I think that they're going to be in the Super Bowl and very likely have a chance to win it, because Tampa Bay, Brady doesn't look like he's even on the same page with his offense in this game against New

Orleans, and plus they got to go to Lambeau. But he has 129 quarterback ratings since playing that game against the Vikings. And then what he did against the number one defense, 296 yards, two touchdowns. Is this the best version of Aaron Rodgers in this Matt LaFleur offense that we have ever seen in Aaron Rodgers' career? I think it's – I don't know if it's the best version because in 2010, they win the Superbowl that year. Then the next year they followed up with a 15 and one season where he wins the MVP. They look unstoppable. They lose to the giants in the playoffs.

And so from a pure numbers standpoint, that's when they had Jordy Nelson, Donald driver, Greg Jennings to Michael Finley. Like they were just cruising those years. But to see what he looked like the past couple years and then to see what he did this year, this is the most impressive Aaron Rodgers has ever been from a statistical standpoint and from just a dominance standpoint. It might be that kind of area right in the 2010-2011 range. He was probably more at the peak

of his physical running ability power I know he had like five touch rushing touchdowns that year or something crazy like that so he was a machine then but to see kind of what happened to him last year and then he had the injuries and the fact that it seemed like Matt LaFleur kind of wanted to dump him and the regime kind of wanted to dump him, and then to see what he did this game, 23 of 36, 296, two touchdowns, and it just looked so easy at every point. You're seeing him smile at the players, and I saw Kevin Clark had a really fun thread about that

and how opposing teams are just demoralized because they look over at him. They're trying to figure out everything that's going on. And he's just like smiling about to snap the ball and how like infuriating that is. But he's he's amazing. And this has to be one of his best performances. Obviously, it's his third MVP. I'd maybe push back on his absolute peak, but this is definitely the most impressive. So, uh, it looked to me the other night, like Michael Jordan and this, um, you would have to see this yourself on the documentary because, uh, he, you know, anyway, but, uh, Michael Jordan, when he got into the later part

of his career was not quite as athletic as he was before, but he was just moving at a different speed from everybody else still because he was mentally so far ahead of everyone and still had most of his gifts physically, and his game was just flawless. And that's what I saw with Aaron Rodgers the other day. And I know Vikings fans probably are getting nauseous hearing this, but I'm sorry.

That's what it looks like. I mean, he's dodging rushers and making throws and just doing things that look routine that are extremely, extremely difficult. And I don't know how you beat him at Lambeau field when he's playing this way. Let me ask you a part B to this question though,

because I think that this is the best he's playing because he's also playing within a system and it's not just him standing back there and using everything he's got physically it's kind of like when Jordan averaged like 35 38 points a game but later this career he would average like 30 but he was playing better basketball and I think that it's the same way with Rodgers playing within the system so it's not just moving around moving around moving around making a ridiculous throw. Like sometimes taking the easy stuff, making the right moves, that's what Mike McCarthy wasn't providing him with that Matt LaFleur has,

those easy throws, and he can make all the hard ones. Part B, though, is, is this his 2009 Favre season? And then the bad stuff happens after. Because in 2009, you would have been convinced Favre could play for a couple more years. He was so good. He was unbelievable in 2009. But they whipped him pretty good in New Orleans. And then he was kind of late to come back.

I mean, these long playoff runs, this will be two in a row for Rodgers. And if he goes to the Super Bowl, I mean, that's a lot of football to play at his age. So is this the best he'll ever be is part b to I mean his best like from here on that it's going to decline like farved it I mean I don't see how he goes up from what you just called his best season ever like you like I don't know if it's really I mean maybe it's possible he can keep going at a rate like this. I would not expect any sort of precipitous drop-off like Favre had. Obviously, Favre had already tried to retire several times.

He had gone to the Jets. Then he made his way to the Vikings. Had kind of a more resurgent year or two. Aaron Rodgers seems like he's going to have the skills and the knowledge to be able to, even if he declines, decline a little bit more like Drew's going to have the skills and the knowledge to be able to, even if he declines, decline a little bit more like Drew Brees and have several years if they can keep putting a team around him where he's still in the playoffs. He's not going to just be able to stop moving at some point like this. And since LaFleur took over, they're 26 and six. Like if that's a

marriage that can stay and they are fine keeping their prized rookie quarterback on the bench for a little bit like I think he can have another really good year next year and maybe the year after not like this probably because they have a great offensive line the rest of the NFC is as we've not very good. The rest of his division was not very good. Some of those things are just bound for a little bit of regression. They had the, I think they scored 80%. In the red zone, they were 80% touchdowns. Like that's the best since like 1998 or something like that. Like some of these things are probably going to falter a little bit. But one thing that really stuck out to me after the game is just like the joy

that he seems to be having, like some of the comments coming out of the games. Like I wrote one down, he said, quote, I think it's one of the greatest honors of my life. Definitely up until this point to be able to lead this team. Like, I don't feel like that's the normal Aaron Rodgers that we get. He's been so salty over the last like four or five years. So he just seems happy. And this kind of seems to be like their dream run.

And so I wouldn't be surprised if he plays at a high level for another couple of years. Like there's nothing about him. He hasn't had a debilitating injury or anything that suggests to me he can't move around and his arm is still really, really strong. I don't know if it's going to be this great just because of variance and the way that things go with older quarterbacks, but I don't see a Favre like drop off.

Well, as long as Devante Adams is wide open on every play and they are committed to throwing to him all the time, which may possibly lead you into your next question. I think I agree that I don't see a 2010 type of drop off like Favre had at the very end but as we saw with Breeze as we just watched it happens to everybody everybody will get there some at some point and with Breeze it was the injury at the end I mean I think even with Manning remember he had to miss a couple of games the year that he retired and they won the

Super Bowl so that was great but I mean he played not special during that season if not downright bad and it was kind of like why can't Peyton Manning throw a football anymore um but uh you know he got to a point where the injuries caught up to him and that's the thing with Rodgers that it's hard to predict toward the end of someone's career because eventually if you get injuries in your late 30s and 40s it's really hard to overcome them and that of someone's career. Cause eventually if you get injuries in your late thirties and forties, it's really hard to overcome them. And that's one of the things with Brady's just never really had those outside of that one year, which was in his peak.

So anyway, about throwing two receivers all the time. Yeah. So I think if the Browns would have won, this might've been kind of a nightmare scenario for Vikings fans where you're kind of picking your poison between Stefan Diggs and the Bills going to the Super Bowl or the coach you almost had leading a horrific franchise of the last 20 years to the Super Bowl in his first year. Like that is probably as bad as it could have gotten to then probably face the Vikings biggest enemy and Aaron Rodgers. Like things probably were not going to be going very good. But yeah, about that Buffalo team, they beat the, the Ravens. The Ravens offense did not look good,

but that's not what we're talking about. We're not going to talk about Leslie Frazier and the bills defense, although we could, but we're not going to, because there's always a connection, man. It doesn't matter what it is. There's even a linebacker from the it doesn't matter what it is there's even a linebacker from the packers who was a gopher so it's like there's always going to be somebody everything okay stefan digs eight catches 106 yards a touchdown he is pretty clearly at least in like the media narrative and the narrative of fans jumped up into the upper

echelon of receivers like top three top, like that's where he is right now. And his team is just playing in a way that he wanted them to play in, and it's bringing them loads and loads of success. So how do we view the Vikings based on what Diggs is doing, what the Bills are doing, doing the opposite strategy of the vikings and the strategy that digs wanted the vikings to use they refused to use it and then he decided to leave and now it's becoming more successful okay so just for anybody who's about to click off or click forward five minutes because they don't want to hear my rant again. I have a new thing to say about this.

I was thinking, literally, I was about to go to sleep after that game, and I had it pop into my head. I've got it. I've got what the regret should be. It really became very clear. It was like the ghost of football's past came to me and said it's not about the trade it's not about justin jefferson it's about 2019 and i thought yes that is right ghosts it is about 2019 and the ghost said and went away uh here's the thing that you should regret and that you should be upset about is the vikings had a top five defense in 2019. They had their defense all together. It was not perfect, but it was very, very good.

As you saw in new Orleans and even in San Francisco, it was really fine for a lot of that game in San Francisco last year, but the offense was also very good, but it wasn't great. And it could have been great if they had thrown to Stefan Diggs more often, if he was made the centerpiece of that offense. And the Bills are the evidence of that. And I know I've had a few people say, well, you know, the Bills have a better offensive line. Look, I get that. But they also built their offensive line to pass protect, unlike the Vikings that built their offensive line for the run.

I mean, they drafted a first-round center because of his run blocking. There's no better indictment of how they think about the offensive line than that. So it all feeds into it. If you had listened to Stephon Diggs, had a conversation with him, and decided that you were going to go with him as the Devante Adams or the Stefan Diggs 2020 version in 2019 you have to wonder if they get farther than they got because I added this up and I they had 24 targets for him in four of their key losses last year that cost them a chance to have home field advantage in the playoffs, which would have made it a completely different story if they were playing at

home. And I mean, look, that's, that's like one and a half games for him in Buffalo. They threw to him 166 times versus 97 or 99, whatever it was last year under a hundred. I mean, you're talking about a whole season's worth of targets extra on top this year. And the Bills are the number one expected points added team in the past game. Their quarterback has gone from a guy who everyone thought was probably a bust to somebody who is now looking like a coveted star. He's having the Case case keenum effect the sam bradford effect sam bradford was like a huge bust comes to minnesota throws to stefan diggs all the time works out great case keenum a nobody guy who is a backup from university of houston comes in has a great top 10 season what does he do throws to digs and thielen all the time and to to go away from that completely to focus on the run i thought over and over about the game in San Francisco.

They just got shut down on first down running all the time by the San Francisco defensive line. It was over. Stefan Diggs scores an amazing touchdown and ends up getting the ball four times after that. I mean, that just should not have ever happened. That's the regret. It's not the trade because the trade worked out fine.

I mean, you have a top five receiver yourself. He was cheaper and he's friendly. I mean, he seems to have a very good attitude and he's a great franchise player for you, Justin Jefferson. So there's no regret there in the trade. It would have been fine to trade him after 2019, but the fact that you never fully used a player of this caliber to his peak of his skills, that should be where you question people. That should be where you have regrets. So thank you, ghost of football's past. Yeah, I was looking at Stefan Diggs's numbers today. He's been targeted 10 plus times in a game, 10 times this season. That happened one time last year with the Vikings.

And Thielen was out too. I mean, you think about that. Thielen was out a big portion of this season. That happened one time last year with the Vikings. And Thielen was out too. I mean, you think about that. Like Thielen was out a big portion of the season. They still wouldn't make him the centerpiece. And again, in those two playoff games last year for the Vikings, he was targeted five times against San Francisco, two receptions, and three times against New Orleans. And so now you see what he could do, and you see what he could do and you saw you knew what he

could do with the Vikings but he's doing it at an even higher level with the Bills and it just makes you question they saw this guy in practice every day like they knew that this was a possibility and why they didn't try to do it is a little bit confusing and it's not just that the bills are getting stefan digs the ball more it's that they're just passing it more in general like cole beasley is getting like all pro consideration like the dallas cowboys just like let him leave like you had adam phelan in the building so like he's much better than cole beasley was you could have them operating you had kyle rudolph last year you had herb smith last year like you had all these pieces and the bills have shown like yesterday at one point they had passed like 18 times and run it like one time

at some point in the first half like they were committed to that and yes it wasn't going great for them yesterday and that was some just like miscommunication things some weird things happening i don't think that's an indictment on the fact that they didn't run the ball i think it was just some weird things happening but it's it's not just digs them deciding okay we're going to target digs 10 times but then we're still going to run the ball. We're still going to do these things. They bought in fully on the pass, and it's worked out for them, and it's worked out for them, like, really, really, really, really well. And that's, I think, for at least a segment of Vikings fans, something that they want to try and see what happens.

And it's just been the insistence on the scheme over maybe the players. Like, we're going to run our scheme, and the players are going to fit inside of it. When you have a Stephon Diggs, when you have a Justin Jefferson, when you have someone even like Adam Thielen, you need to mold the scheme around them, not the other way around. And the Bills are doing that. They're playing to Diggs' strengths, and that was not happening in Minnesota. They were asking him to do things inside their system the way they wanted, and that just isn't the way that you should be playing football

or really any sport at this point. Key stat here about also just to circle back to that point about the offensive line not being able to hold up well enough to throw to Stephon Diggs all the time. The average depth of target for Diggs was 15 yards in 2019. It was 10 yards this year. So they were getting the ball quickly a lot and letting him create yards after catch, which we know he's capable of. And here's one more stat for you before we move on.

Last year in two playoff games in 2019, Stefan Diggs had eight targets in two playoff games in 2019, Stephon Diggs had eight targets in two playoff games. He has 20 this year at 17 yards per reception, 14 receptions, 17 yards per reception. That sounds like some pretty efficient football to me. He's caught 14 out of 20. I mean, this is, it's a very efficient play for a guy who can pick up 17 yards a catch. So, yeah, I mean, look, it's a thing that we are going to end up discussing a lot is how they can change their offensive philosophy. But that's the thing to regret is how good could you have been when you were good?

Not this year. You're overhauling your team this year. But how good could you have been last year? So let me ask you my last question for you, which is speaking of that, the Rams had the number one defense. They went to Lambeau and lost. They relied on a limited quarterback, could have broken thumb. So, you know, part of that is, it's tough for Jared Goff.

And I thought, I mean, if I, I mean, he did his job for the most part, Jared Goff. And what we said about him last week like give the guy a little respect because he's really toughing it out here and he actually played decent uh against Green Bay but this protect the quarterback at all costs run when you can and and for the Vikings obviously more than that and then have the number one defense is that what the Vikings want to be like if they're looking at all the playoff teams are they saying who is the most like what we will be when we rebuild this I mean I think you and I would say I think you want to be the teams with all the playmakers

but I think that they look at it and say we could be the Rams and we could pull off an upset against Seattle on the road but I also think that the peak of teams like the Rams and I would even throw the Ravens and the Steelers into this too the peak is you get eliminated after maybe one playoff win yeah and I agree I would say that the Vikings though do view that as the the way to go at least that's what Mike Zimmer feels is the way to go and that's the way he's always done it so i guess you understand why he wants to do it that way like that's where he's comfortable that's where he has found success here is doing something like that so that's what he knows um but i think it's kind of hard to deny that that has a ceiling like you said

the rams have the number one defense in the NFL and Green Bay scores like 28 points in their first five drives or something like that some some crazy number wasn't 28 it was 23 or whatever 25 whatever it was it was something they pretty much scored every single drive and yes Aaron Donald only played 55% of the snaps. Like, I get it. But, like, you're the number one defense, and you just got smoked in the playoffs because you're going to run up against a generational talent at quarterback in the playoffs. You just are. In any game, maybe you can escape one game, but are you going to escape it a

second time, a third time, a fourth time to get it to the Super Bowl? Like, if you're just looking at, like, variance, like, it's hard to have a consistently good defense, and it's not as hard if you have one of those quarterbacks to be really good on offense, and you're going to run into one or two or three of those quarterbacks if you're in the playoffs. And so I don't see how that is a sustainable, like consistent deep playoff contender. I think this year proved that. I think the Rams proved that. They have two of the best defensive players of this generation, and that isn't enough to stop Alan Lazard from catching passes from Marquez Valdez-Scantling scoring passes from like other random A.J. Dillon, Jamal Williams,

like running the ball like decently effectively. Like we have just seen time and time again, it's better to have just not horrific defense and build up your offense than the other way around. And the other thing I'd say is the Vikings are closer to having a great offense and a just average defense. So if things were flipped a little bit and the defense seemed like the easiest path to some sort of contention, I could at least see the justification. At one point it did. In 2013, 2014, at one point it did. Yeah, 2014. At one point it did. to be the Rams than it is to be like the Titans or the Browns.

Like those teams, like are even teams that you would compare Mike Zimmer to because those still emphasize the run, but those at least are teams that you can look at and say, even we're going to have to concede with Mike Zimmer that we're going to run the ball a lot, but even those teams can be a little effective when they put more emphasis on the offense. And if you even strayed a little bit more from the running game then you're getting into the bills territory so

it's not only that it's the smartest way to go it's that it's the easiest way to go for the vikings but i don't know if that's the path they choose i'm gonna give you one little flicker of hope just a little slow this is not at all me guaranteeing that the vikings will push the chips to the middle of the table on the offense. I don't know that they will, but I'll give you the flicker. In 1996, if you grew up in the 90s, you are enjoying this podcast today. This is a little history lesson for you. Bill Parcells, who is the mentor of Mike Zimmer and one of the greatest coaches of all time, hands down.

I mean, he won with everyone. He won with the Giants. He won with the Jets. He won with the Dallas Cowboys. I mean, everybody. He, in 1996, threw the second most passes in the NFL with Drew Bledsoe as his quarterback and went to the Super Bowl with a top-five passing offense. And that was after, through the 80s, running the ball, playing defense,

having Lawrence Taylor do Lawrence Taylor things. And then in 1998, he did the same thing with Vinny Testaverde, where they were a top-five passing offense, and they threw all the time. So the biggest influence of Mike Zimmer, at one point, got to a spot in his career where he said, you know what, we just got to throw all the time. Now, he didn't have Delvin Cook, and when he had Curtis Martin, he ran Curtis Martin a lot. But in 94, 95, 96, Vikings fans will remember Drew Bledsoe throwing 70 passes in a game where they beat the Vikings. I'm just saying that the biggest mentor in Mike Zimmer's life at one point decided I can't play like I did with Otis Anderson and Phil Sims anymore and

just hand off and hit a deep shot every once in a while. I have to change, throw the ball. So I'm just saying it is a possibility. Let me, do you have any more questions? Did you ask yours? Well, we got to get to the journeyman quarterback at some point. Oh, okay. Okay.

Yeah. If you had something, go for it. No, no, I didn't. I, cause I just want, i wanted to wrap on who we think is going to make the super bowl but i ask your uh your last question there well i mean chad henney we saw the the 13 yard game that was almost the game winner then obviously he tyree hill was wide open but he still had to make the pass he still you know he had to convert it um where does this rank in terms of best moments for journeyman quarterbacks because there sure have been better ones but i'm not sure how many have shined in the light that they have after throwing a pick that's such like a horrific

pick like that yeah like to have that arc of a journeyman quarterback like he couldn't draw it up any better for him to come in not start a game since 2014 that he was replaced by rookie Blake Bortles. Like before this week 17 game that he started for the Chiefs, like the last meaningful game was week three, 2014, where he was replaced by Blake Bortles. And then he reaches 18 miles an hour, next gen stats, the fastest player on the field. And he keeps them that's great he keeps them alive and he he keeps that super bowl favorite team alive like this has to be one of the i one of the top moments i can't speak on this as as much you can speak on this much much more but at least in my lifetime this has to be the best journeyman quarterback moment. All right, everybody, the Super Bowl is coming up,

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Just go to ActionNetwork.com now. Receive 50% off an annual subscription when you use the code INSIDER. This offer won't last, so go to ActionNetwork.com, sign up for a pro subscription, and use the promo code INSIDER to receive 50% off and start betting smarter today. So there's journeyman quarterbacks, there's backup quarterbacks, there's kind of a mixed mash of different things. But a few came to mind, and these are a little bit better than what Chad Henney was able to pull off. One is Trent Dilfer winning the Super Bowl with the Baltimore Ravens. The guy never gets a darn bit of credit, but he did a good job that year holding them together,

making the plays he needed to play. And, you know, he was a guy that was sort of thrown aside and wasn't even the starting quarterback to begin that season. It was Tony Banks. And then Trent Dilfer becomes a thing for people who love defense to lean on for the rest of their lives that Trent Dilfer won it Jeff Hostetler in the game that Scott Norwood missed wide right Jeff Hostetler was the backup quarterback and he won the NFC championship against the 49ers to be in that game and Buffalo was way favored and obviously they ended up winning that game that one also came to mind and then the the journeyman lines get blurred a little bit but Rich Gannon with the Oakland Raiders going to the Super Bowl I mean that's a former Viking and a journeyman by definition and sorry I have to bring

this up but Chris Chandler had been around by the time he got to 98. And that was what, a 14-2 Atlanta Falcons team. And I'll give you another great backup moment that also involves Drew Bledsoe. Tom Brady's first Super Bowl, Brady gets hurt and Bledsoe has to come in and beat the Pittsburgh Steelers in a kind of amazing fashion. So Brady would not have gotten his first Super Bowl if not for Drew Bledsoe playing a huge role in that. So there are some great backup moments, and I will include the GOAT backup quarterback coming in moment. Frank Reich had to start for Jim Kelly, got down 38-3, came back to win a playoff game against the Houston Oilers. It does not get better than that for backup quarterbacks ever. That is the GOAT backup quarterback moment, I think. So yeah,

I mean, Chad Henney goes down in history, man. I didn't have the knowledge I needed to bring you in to really, to really give us that breakdown. And I would also say for Vikings fans who might be screaming right now, Case Keenum had a pretty good playoff. Yes. Yeah, for sure. So we have to, we have to hit one with the Vikings as well. Case Keenum had a pretty good playoff. Yes, for sure. The mini-ampersand. So we have to hit one with the Vikings as well. I think you were about to ask about Super Bowl contenders,

or who we think is going to play in it, who we think is going to win in it. I didn't really shift from what we talked about last week when I said I didn't see anything that made me think it's not going to be Chiefs-Packers. As long as Mahomes is healthy, and that's a big caveat, I don't see another matchup because the Bills have won these two games. It's great for them. But in both games, they just aren't playing how you want them to play. A lot of men.

If they're going to do that against the Chiefs, they're not going to win if Patrick Mahomes is healthy. They're too talented to be playing the way that they currently are in the playoffs to barely get past Indy and then to have a point where the Ravens could have been in that game like that shouldn't have happened and then on the other side the Packers just kind of seem like they're steamrolling guys this Brady Breeze game was kind of a sad last Brady Breeze game'd like both of them to kind of be firing on all cylinders, but the Saints' best moment was Jameis Winston coming in,

and Brady was kind of saved by all those turnovers that his defense got. So it seems like it's going to be Rodgers and Mahomes, and if Mahomes is healthy, I have to take the Chiefs until they lose. Like, they're 15-1 this season. Mahomes is like 24-1 in his last 25. Like, I'm going to pick them until they lose. Like they're 15-1 this season. Mahomes is like 24-1 in his last 25. Like I'm going to pick them until they lose. Well, I think everybody's looking forward to the Super Bowl I rematch of Packers and Kansas City Chiefs. By the way, I mean, in terms of great journeyman moments,

I don't know whether people count Randall Cunningham as a journeyman because he had played with the Eagles for his whole career and then he came here. But he wasn't a starter. And then, you know, we've got guys like Gus Farratt's 99-yard touchdown pass. So the Vikings have a lot of these that are really awesome. But, yeah, I have a tough time and agree, of course, the caveat there. If it's Chad Henney for a full game, that's going to be real tough.

He had his moment, but now he needs to go back to the bench. But it's just hard to say. I mean, with a brain injury, is he going to be real tough. He had his moment, but now he needs to go back to the bench. But it's just hard to say. I mean, with a brain injury, is he going to be okay? And you know, he's going to try to play, but he's going to be around a long time. So you don't want to mess this up for one game. I mean, you'd rather sacrifice not going to the Super Bowl and playing Chad Henney or Matt Moore, I think is still on this team. You'd rather sacrifice not going to the Super Bowl and playing Chad Henney or Matt Moore, I think is still on this team. You'd rather have those guys play than give up the rest of Mahomes' career. He might get five shots at this over the rest of his career. He's that good. So that, if it was just a little, and I don't know everything about concussions, but if it was just

sort of a little hit to the head or whatever, but this was bad this was really bad this doesn't look like something that you just kind of snap your fingers so you hope that Kansas City is going to not get desperate to win this one and play it um to the safest but if they do and Mahomes is 100% I just don't see I don't see how either one of these teams win um going on the road, you're totally right about Buffalo. I mean, they were just putting out the welcome mat for these teams to upset them, and Lamar Jackson throws it right to a cornerback, runs it back for a touchdown, and then gets hurt himself. Indianapolis has the ball with a chance to go win the game,

and Phillip Rivers can't throw it more than six yards, which his career might be over too. So it should be really interesting. It's a weird position for Vikings fans to be in to have to root for Tom Brady, but I think that's where they're at. I think they're rooting for Mahomes and Brady, a rematch of the 2018 AFC Championship game, which was unbelievable, like all-time great.

So sorry to put you in that position Vikings, but it is what it is, I guess, with Aaron Rodgers playing the way he's playing. So Paul, I appreciate you jumping on and giving the full recap after a long day. I've been exhausted. I'm more tired watching these games and more tense watching these games sitting on my couch with no rooting interest whatsoever than I am covering games. Cause I don with no rooting interest whatsoever, then I am covering games because I don't know why. I just maybe I have something to sort of focus on. But it's it's amazing. I've been exhausted at the end of these weekends. Yeah, I don't know. I think maybe when we do the pod, I get like a break from football because we

do the three, like usually after the Vikings at noon, and then I miss a big chunk of the middle game. And then I come back for the night game and I feel okay. But yeah, last weekend, three games was a lot. And then these games that were close and just had a ton on the line, I was jumping up when Chad Henney made that play like super invested. So yeah, I, I will enjoy some rest and we only get one day of football, which is sad. It is sad it's it's sad next two days of football left more it's sad but i i choose not to think about it i choose to think that we have

mahomes allen brady and rogers and we can look forward to that and then i'll cry later it's the off season again uh yeah we're almost there so after championship weekend we will do this again don't make any plans and we will break it all down from a Vikings perspective then thanks for joining me as always Paul and we will catch you next time on Purple Insider