Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - NFL.com’s Eric Edholm talks Diggs trade and buys McCarthy-Vikings hype

Episode Date: April 4, 2024

Matthew Coller talks with Eric Edholm of NFL.com about the Bills trading Stefon Diggs and then deep dives into his takes about the QB class, in particular whether the JJ McCarthy hype is real or if he’s being overvalued by the draft community. https://surfshark.deals/PURPLEINSIDER Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode of purple insider, Matthew collar here, returning to the show. One of the OG draft reporters, also the best amateur chess player. I know Eric Edholm of NFL.com. I hope you're still getting in time to do a little bit of prep. We got the candidates coming up for the, one of the biggest chess tournaments in the world. Oh yeah. And also NFL draft.

Do we have a huge trade today, but you know, we got to start with a little chess, right? I mean, first of all, Mizzou, my alma mater just won the chess final four down in Dallas speed. trade today but you know we got to start with a little chess right i mean first of all mizzou my

alma mater just won the chess final four down in dallas speed uh beat a st louis team so we had a little regional win there and then also beat a couple teams from texas so i'm just saying like even though my chess game is is lacking a little bit i mean i i still still play a game or two here and there i'm my draft game feels pretty strong i am going to celebrate the Mizzou Chess National Championship. Well, you should. You should. And I think that the amateur chess game is getting stronger and stronger around the world as so many people jumped in after the pandemic.

So now it's harder to be good on chess.com, which you and I both struggle with for sure. But let's dive into this big trade that has happened just before we decided to record. Usually big stuff happens after I'm done recording. So I'm quite happy about this. Stefan Diggs is now a Houston Texan. And what I'm noticing from my Twitter feed is a lot of rationalization for Bills fans dealing with Stefan Diggs being traded to Houston. But what I can't figure out, Eric, is why Houston? If you're going to trade Stefan Diggs, there have to be other suitors than the rising team in your conference.

I mean, maybe that's just the best draft capital they could get. And the Vikings helped them out a little bit with that draft pick going to Buffalo. But the Texans would be one of the last teams that I would want to give any help to if I were the Buffalo Bills. Yeah, right. You might have the Chiefs and one or two other teams ahead of them, but not too many teams, especially what we saw with CJ Stroud breaking out last year. And, you know, this can only help him. And they've got Nico Collins, who became sort of a pseudo number one last year. So it's a great setup there. But yeah, I hear you with Bills fans too.

Now they lost Gabe Davis this offseason. I was never a huge fan. Obviously, he had his moments. He had big games. Everyone remembers the Arrowhead playoff game, four touchdowns. But, you know, I didn't mind letting him walk. I thought that was actually kind of smart and, you know, picking up Curtis Samuel at a, at a reduced rate or a reasonable price,

I think was a smart move. Khalil Shakir, we saw at the end of last year, but you know, I don't know if this almost sort of, you know, pushes them into drafting a wide receiver in the first round at this point, but you feel like it's, you know, not a lock, but, but you feel like that's a position they have to strongly, strongly consider good draft for that. But yeah, I mean, I, I don't know that I'd be sending, uh, even, even for a player who averaged 11 yards to carry last or 11 yards of last season, you know know even a player who's on the wrong side of 30 all of a sudden who's had some some headaches maybe they're they're hoping

he's uh you know in there to secretly dismantle cj stroud like you know to be like the you know the antonio brown kind of thing where you send somebody and say all right you know cause some hell here i don't think that's gonna happen happen, but yeah, I mean, Stefan usually behaves once he goes somewhere else and, you know, and at first everything's great. So, you know, this might be like a Tyreek Hill situation where he goes to Miami and, you know, says, ah, Pat stinks and two is the best. And, you know, we can see some of that. So yeah, I I'm surprised there wasn't an NFC team that they could have matched that price or, you know, found a way to pry them loose.

Sometimes I do think Diggs is a diva like a fox because that Buffalo team peaked already and now has rebuilding to do around Josh Allen. They're always going to be a contender as long as Josh Allen is playing quarterback for them. But it's not quite the same as where that entire roster was a couple of years ago. That 13 seconds game, that was their year. Like they were going to the Super Bowl and all they need to do is get a stop.

And they were the better team that day. They were the best team probably in the NFL that year. And it just didn't work out. And since then, it's been a little bit more of climbing a slippery mountain. It is funny, though. And of course, Vikings fans kind of pimp in a little bit like, oh yeah, well, you know, you see, he did it again or whatever in Buffalo after winning four straight divisions after elevating Josh Allen to the level of being talked about as a star quarterback.

But I think from a just pure economic standpoint to even just push aside some of that stuff with his personality, it makes sense to move on from an older wide receiver who's very expensive in what seems in is really only sending them to the Texans. That is the bizarre part to me because I think economically they're handling it pretty well. And on the other side of it though, what we've been talking about a lot, Eric is just the advantage of the rookie quarterback contract. And if you are in Houston and you take on this big contract, you put them with Nico Collins and Tank Dell. I mean, you are just like spoiled here because you have a great quarterback on a rookie contract. And this is what the Vikings are trying to eventually do at some point here. Yeah, no, that, that advantage

cannot be overlooked. And when Josh's salary went from, you know, I don't remember the exact numbers, but let's say 17 million to 47 million against the cap, even with a I don't remember the exact numbers, but let's say $17 million to $47 million against the cap. Even with a salary cap that went up by, you know, a factor of at least 5% to 10% more than what was expected, right? I mean, we've seen these 10%, 11% jumps every single year or, you know, whatever it is, 7%, 10%. And even with that, they were for a force on the first day of, of a free agency or the first day of the league year to shed a lot of salary, let guys walk. And now with this trade too. So, yeah, I mean, it, it really paints a pretty clear picture. Now, obviously you can win a super bowl with an established quarterback in that, in that contract range. You know, we saw it last year, but that, that, that high range, high range. But yeah, I mean, this is the

blueprint for a lot of teams. They're going to do it a little bit differently each one, but absolutely. You've got Jordan Addison last year. You've added a couple of foundational pieces. You have a provisional starter now who can hold the fort, and you hopefully find your franchise quarterback in this draft and sort of set sail with that path in mind. If it goes as well in year one as it did for CJ, you know, like all bets are off. It changes the trajectory of a franchise versus where the Carolina Panthers are. Yeah, I mean, they're spending right now, but they can't necessarily think that they're contenders overnight. Yeah, no, that's definitely true. And I guess I was

thinking about environments that quarterbacks fall into. And I want you to go back to last year and what you thought of Bryce Young and CJ Stroud and how much you think that the environment played a role in their success. Because I mean, I think with CJ Stroud, the way that man throws a football, he was probably going to work out. He's the number two pick. It's not like he was some sort of underdog in this thing, but just looking at it through a bit of a Vikings lens, I think what the Vikings can give to their next quarterback is similar or better even to what CJ Stroud got with the Texans in terms of they've got good coaching, good wide receivers, a decent offensive line, and those things are going to elevate.

But the Vikings, I think, could do even better than that because they have Justin Jefferson. But how much of a role did that really play, or was it just that the NFL mis-evaluated Young and Stroud? Yeah, no, I don't necessarily think that you can separate fit or landing spot, whatever you want to say, with the quarterback and just say, no, I guess we should ask ourselves what would have happened had Bryce landed in Houston and had CJ landed in Carolina would CJ Stroud have have turned that wide receiver core in that

offensive line into a bunch of studs overnight I don't think so right so it does matter and you're right I mean the Vikings I think you know pair of receivers who could be studs, tight end, running back, parts of the offensive line look really good. I mean, you know, a head coach who's a quarterback whisperer. It's a great setup. You know, I think they, you know, I mean, given what they had last year with all the injuries and having to play quarterback roulette, they were still competitive, right? I mean, that's the sort of the telltale sign is that they found ways to stay in the race, even as crazy an operation as it was down the stretch. So yeah, there's no question in my mind, the Vikings can go from where they were last year to first place, even in a division that seems like it's getting better., wouldn't shock me at all. I mean, obviously Detroit's pretty nicely established now, but they would have their

work cut out for them. But could you see it? Sure. It's a remote possibility, but it's a possibility, I think. And so, yeah, I mean, I think finding the right guy is super important of course but also the environment in which they'll work is is crucial i look at it as a kind of a two-year type of plan for the vikings to draft the guy this year and then next year maybe you're starting sam darnold you're taking your time with this quarterback and you are competitive as you mentioned i mean they were in the playoff race and if Alexander Madison doesn't fumble against Denver if Nick Mullins makes one better pass as opposed to an interception against Detroit like they were fairly close to being a 10-win team last year and that's not just

sort of rationalizing it but I mean they really truly were a couple of fumbles and miscues away in close games from being there and that's with playing Josh Dobbs, playing Nick Mullins, and even mixing in a shade of a Jaron Hall, who was not ready to play in the National Football League. But I still think next year you're looking to be in the race with the quarterback that you draft. And the hope is that you come out of it. Even if you only win seven or eight games going next year,

that's when we make our big trade in the off season. That's when we spend on our big free agent. And then you take that step forward. But Eric, they have to draft the right quarterback. So there's many paths. There's many paths. There's trading all the way up. There's trading a little way up.

There's sticking to pick in. There's trying to pick at 23 of all the routes that the Vikings could go with their draft capital and this quarterback class. Which do you like the best? I think the perfect scenario for the Vikings would be, you know, we got to, we have to assume they have a preferred option, right? And let's, let's eliminate Caleb Williams just for argument's sake, right? He's going one, everybody, you know, it's be hard pressed to find somebody who's adamant they won't go there. So taking him out of the equation, assuming they have a favorite among, and again, it may not be the top three remaining, but again, it probably is,

whether it's Jane Daniels, Drake May, or J.J. McCarthy. I mean, one of those guys has to be their preferred choice. Obviously, the ideal situation would be to have Williams and then the other two guys, the two non-runner-up choices, go first, second, and third. Then, you know, because we don't know if New England at three is legitimately listening to offers. I heard some people talking in the Boston media circles about how, you know, the asking price should be two first round picks in Justin Jefferson. I mean, are the Vikings doing that?

Come on. You know, I don't know. So, yeah, right. Unless something else is pretty big is coming back, which I don't imagine what that would be from New England. So, yeah, I mean, the question is, is four the best landing spot versus three? I don't know. But on paper, it would make sense that that would be better for the Vikings.

You have less far to move up. You have a team that has hung a for sale sign on that pick. You have multiple first round picks. You have a better pool of choices overall than the Broncos. You know, it just adds up, right? Everything seems to make the most sense at that spot. And they're one pick ahead of them too, I think, right? So yeah, I mean, that to me would be the ideal scenario. And again, not knowing exactly who their guy is, that would be the perfect scenario. And you know, I understand that they're lacking some picks on day two right now. So it's going to be interesting to see how they navigate. If there is a big jump from their first selection to the

hundred and whatever it's pick. Yeah. I don't think I'm going to have to do a live show on a day too, because they have nothing at the moment, but I'm very curious about what you think about. So let's, let's go with that scenario. Then let's say that it's Caleb Williams, Jaden Daniels, Drake may,

or may and Daniel switch, whatever they go one, two, three, those teams are not actually selling their pick to the Vikings. And that means trading up with the Arizona Cardinals to take JJ McCarthy. Does it concern you at all that JJ McCarthy at the end of his college football season was largely by the draft universe considered to be a mid first round type of talent to back of the first round type of talent. And I'm talking about not, you know, Joe in his basement doing his mock draft, but I mean, people who

studied the draft report on the draft had him there. And then as this has gone along, especially through the combine, now we're talking about him as the fourth overall pick. How do you, how do you perceive that with McCarthy and his draft stock? Yeah. Well, first of all, I mean, I, I think you're absolutely right about that and maybe even underselling it because I put, I did a mock right. I think it was during senior bowl week and I had written it prior to leaving. And then I, you know, maybe tweaked a few things, but I put McCarthy 19th to the Rams in that initial draft. you know like smack dab right in the middle of the first round a little on the back end um and I had people telling me first round pick you know like in the comments on Twitter like are you kidding me did you watch any college football uh yes I did the answer is yes uh and I had talked to some NFL people who had brought his name up

before and you know in fact an NFC North Scout who kind of mentioned him to me when we were talking back in November and you know it was the first time that I thought like he had a chance to be a first round pick so I thought geez okay maybe I need to look at him a little harder right um and it's not like J.J. McCarthy was bad in college obviously you know he won a national championship played in in the college playoffs the year before, generally took care of the football, good athlete, has a better arm. I think we've seen throughout the process, now they've gotten the stretch at his pro day, at the combine, he threw it both places, throws the ball nicely.

There's some good footwork, good mechanics. He clearly won teams over in the interview process. And it's the kind of, you know, intangible factor that, you know, the analytics can't put a number on it. You know, there's no true draft value for that. And I always fall back on the idea that, you know, whatever that quality is that, you know, do whatever it takes to win, equanimity in the face of pressure, being able to be a locker room savant and work with all different kinds of people, those are all qualities that are super important to the quarterback position. And as that interview process has evolved, whether it's combine,

private meetings, other places along the way, JJ has blown some teams away. You know, there was even a team and you can look up who talked to him. I won't say who it is, but a team that doesn't need a quarterback and you, and you would see them on the list of, of like, why would you interview JJ McCarthy if you're not interested? But, um, no, obviously McCarthy could talk about his teammates too and whatnot, but they said they were just sort of like, I almost to the point we're like we wish we needed a quarterback this would be a good year to have it um and we thought he had some some some special quality about him so you know tangibles good maybe even very good but the intangibles seem to be what people are

blown away by in inside league circles. So, you know, does that sound like a little bit of a fluff job, you know, like we're trying to put a bow on a pig here? Yeah, but obviously he's got NFL-type ability. It's just the consistency and the accuracy, especially outside the numbers. I feel like, you know, there were some throws wide of the mark where you go, wow. You know, so there's just always something leaving you wanting a little bit more in terms of that. But everything else looks pretty darn good to me.

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but also had some warts to his game as well, he ended up dropping a lot farther. And that's what I can't figure out as we're going through this is, is this McCarthy thing as crazy out as we're going through this is, is this McCarthy thing as crazy hype as we think it is. But then I also don't have a very difficult time talking myself into him as a fit with the Vikings, because if you're talking about an intangibles type of quarterback with raw skills that can be honed over the next couple of years, because he is one of the younger prospects in this draft. I mean, I think that you can make that work in your head pretty easily. All right.

Him and Kevin O'Connell in an office every day, designing the offense together, throwing footballs at each other. And then he goes out and works with Josh McCown on the footwork and the details of the offense. And hey, look, the guy could scramble if he got pressured, right? That's one thing that I do like a lot about him is he's got very quick feet. So I'm of kind of two minds because as I watched college football this year, I was very like, I don't know, you know, he's just a guy. And I'm watching Pennix and going, okay, now that's a first-round quarterback. And then we get to draft season and I'm told, no, no, no, no, you're completely wrong.

Pennix is a second second round pick. McCarthy, is it also possible that we are sleeping on Penix a little bit because there was more concern than necessary about the knees, for example? Yeah, I think, well, with Penix too, it was the shoulder injuries too in the past because, you know, shoulders, well, shoulders and ACLs for that, are prone to re-injure. And so once you've done it once, your chance of doing it a second or third or fourth time is incredibly higher, right, exponentially in some cases with each time. So two ACLs, two shoulders, legitimate concern there. And he's got kind of a thinner, lower body and things like that.

He had the ankle injury in the national championship game. So I think those injury questions were, were founded in a, in a, in a realistic place. And that's what kind of lowered his value. Now, as we've seen him throw, and as we see, you know, like the quarterback game of musical chairs, like not everyone's going to get one if you're the top four anyway. So, you know, and even if New England trades down, you can add another team to that list of, of, you know, that's one more

team that doesn't get their quarterback. And so, you know, does that mean a team like the New York Jets says, all right, we'll just sit at six and sit this out. Does it mean that the Broncos say, well, we'll kind of let the draft come to us? I don't know, right? Where Bo Nix and Michael Pennix fall is going to be fascinating. Could they be first-round picks? Sure. Could they both slip to the second? Could one slip to the second? I think all those scenarios are alive, but I will say that I haven't really sensed like this was some ginned-up operation.

I've heard people's theories about Jim Harbaugh. Oh, he's been talking him up because he's picking fifth. So he wants the better player to fall to him, the better non-quarterback because he's got Justin Herbert. That's a great theory, except, you know, he had to be playing some real chess if he was starting this talk back in, you know, like November saying he's the best quarterback in Michigan history, you know, where he played, where Tom Brady played, where the few other pretty good quarterbacks played. So, you know, I feel like Jim's whole thing has been earnest and I feel like the NFL interest in, in, in McCarthy has been earnest too. But then again, you never really know, you know, Matt Leinart had to wait a little bit, and he was kind of that guy who was

talked up. And Mac Jones was rumored to be the third pick in the draft. And you mentioned Pickett. How high was he going to go? Top 10? No, no, it's 20th. So I suppose that scenario does exist if the teams that liked him either aren't eager to move up for a quarterback or they ended up having one guy higher than him and they took that player. So you never really know in these cases. Do you think if New England was selling for less than the price of Justin Jefferson? I love Boston Sports Radio is the gift that never stops giving, right? I mean, it's just incredible. But let's just say instead of the greatest receiver on earth that the Vikings were giving up three first round draft picks 11, 23, and then from 2025, is that worth the gap between JJ McCarthy and Drake May? Because it

has been my opinion that it is with Drake May. I think the ceiling is a superstar caliber quarterback, and I'm not as concerned about some of the wonky stuff about his tape for this year as I am about when I watch back a game, I go holy bleep about 10 different times a game. And I also think that his team is very bad that he was playing with, but that's not everybody's opinion.

I mean, there's former quarterback content creators who think he should be a qb9 or whatever and uh you know it's look there's a lot of opinions out there but i'm curious about how you see drake may and whether he is worth the big trade yeah well first of all least important part first you know like every year there's that one quarterback that everybody has to just you know jump on it seems like Drake's the guy this year I've heard no buzz whatsoever about Bo Nix Penix has been kind of the the wild card of the group I guess JJ's been the hot riser guy everyone you know Jaden's sort of slowly crept up but everyone else has kind of stayed in their lanes except for Drake who went from you know the surefire number two pick, it seemed like, to yesterday's leftovers.

So yeah, I'm a little bit surprised. And I get the idea that maybe he's not ready to step in week one. And, you know, people still have nightmares of the Zach Wilson season where, you know, the Jets just said, you're our week one starter. You're going to get every single rep in OTAs. You're going to get all the, oh, this is a great play. And let's just force feed them everything and throw them out there week one against Bill Belichick or whatever, you know? So I think there is a little bit of PTSD from that kind of experiment or fear of that happening. But at the same time, don't the Vikings have a pretty good setup for that, right? And Patriots, I guess, too, with Brissette. He's not a terrible quarterback, right?

These are guys who are functional. They can get you through a certain portion of a season, maybe even a full season if you need it. So that should help buttress your decision. If you love May but worry, okay, I don't know how early we want to play the guy. He's coming from an air raid system. Some of this stuff won't translate. You know, the speed and the timing of everything and the precision that's required. Yeah, all that. But you also played with Jaron Hall last year too, right? I mean, your expectations have already been dropped to a certain level to where I wouldn't imagine, especially with Josh on staff.

You know, he knows him and he's worked with him before. I mean, they should know exactly what Drake May is and, and, or pretty darn close to what he is and what he could be based on that alone. And so, yeah, I mean, I, I think it would be a great fit. Like I'm kind of like you, I would say May would be my, my pie in the sky option for the Vikings, and McCarthy would be my I-could-see-it-working option, absolutely. Would I be doing backflips? Maybe not, but I also can picture that tandem working together. But May, in the long run, maybe he's Josh Allen. Maybe he's Justin he's Justin Herbert maybe some hybrid of the two and or a better version I don't know so he's he's got all the ability and it's there and he's a smart

kid seems level-headed seems kind of even keeled I I love that part about him too when you say uh Drake May and you start naming quarterbacks that have a lot of success in the league that are physical freaks it doesn't strike me as being ridiculous. I know. Yeah. That, that, that when you watch it,

like the, the size, it does matter. Look, I mean, I looked this up the other day that I think it was 13 of the 16 highest graded quarterbacks by PFF were at least six, two,

and even half of them were even taller than that. And it, it does matter that arm talent, the athleticism at that size is different than athleticism at five foot 11. And you saw him so many times where he's being tackled and he's in the grasp and he finds a way to make a play, whether it's escaping past that or just even not being taken down right away. And so you go through those kind of Matt Stafford, Eli Manning type of huge guys with some athletic element to him, at least early Eli Manning, not old Eli Manning, but early Eli Manning. You can see it easily envision that. With McCarthy,

it's a little harder to just be like, oh yeah, I watched a game and I see him becoming a great quarterback. That doesn't mean it's impossible. It's just so much easier with may. I want to ask you about Bo Nix though. You brought him up and it just seems that he should just change his name to dog meat. Like the, the draft, the draft analysis world who loved Bo Nix going into the season and couldn't

talk enough about how you were a silly goose. If you didn't see it with him at Auburn, he's a first round talent and now they, it with him at Auburn. He's a first-round talent. And now they can't stand him. Now he's just super mid, and there's nothing good about this guy, and he threw nothing but screen passes. And, look, I am so confused. I don't know if Penix's knees work.

I don't know if McCarthy's a top pick. And I sure as heck don't know what I'm supposed to think about Bo Nix. Yeah. I mean, look, I get that there was a high percentage of screen passes. That's the offense they ran. I try not to take that away from guys, right? I just try to overlook those plays and let's see the throws, the higher leverage throws. Let's see when he's got five man protection against the blitz. You know, let's see how he handles, you know, getting to his hot receiver. Let's see how he handles third and 13itz you know let's see how he handles you know getting to his hot receiver let's see how he handles third and 13 you know down six points up six points all those situations that really you know they may only make up 20 30 percent of the plays but they make up the plays

that define a quarterback and um for the most part i mean look he was good in the red zone efficient you know he was good at uh i think eliminating some of the bad habits that he had early in his career where he was this sort of yolo quarterback and you know could could flick the ball up and his receiver would bail him out and everyone said what a gritty game player you know game uh uh playmaker is what i was trying to say game maker yeah uh you know, he became this sort of hyper-efficient distributor of the ball, almost like, you know, like an Alex Smith or late career Drew Brees almost, you know, when you watch the Oregon offense and could he layer some throws to the second level and third level? Yeah, absolutely. I just think that like his, his gifts are not terribly special.

I also think that when you give him a nice structure in which to work, I think he's pretty darn efficient. Once he starts kind of veering outside of that, that's when you really hold your breath. He can make chicken salad out of you know what, but he can also do the opposite I mean every time he extended plays I had like flashbacks to the the scary Auburn moments and I think he's learned a lot I will say like if you're just talking about from like point a to point b when they got in

college where they are now he might have come the farthest McCarthy obviously was like a five-star prospect so you know recruit so he was considered a talented guy Drake Bay was to Caleb Williams obviously to Bo Nix when you saw him as a freshman yes he looked mature being able to handle it out there but he also looked chaotic I saw less and less of that as I went on. So he's been programmed well and coached well. And I think he'd really do well in a, in a Sean Payton system if he can handle the, the, the verbal abuse. But I don't know, is that, is that me just trying to shoehorn a pick in that seems obvious? Maybe. Are there six first round quarterbacks you think? Like, will it happen or do I think it

should happen uh either or both I don't think it'll happen I don't think we get six I I could be wrong I mean you never know I think there's a chance at five though you know especially if if we go one through four you know the first four picks of the draft are quarterbacks. If that happens, the likelihood increases, I think. You know, teams start getting a little antsier. You know, maybe Denver feels like they can move back from 12 and get a quarterback a little bit later and recoup some of the picks they've lost. Or maybe the Raiders at 13 have similar designs where, you know, they're just so hell-bent on upgrading the room. Although, I guess you sign Gardner Minshew for the same reason the Vikings sign Darnold.

But yeah, it's hard to know how highly teams like that, especially the Giants, Broncos, Raiders, where they have an option. I guess the Broncos don't, but they theoretically could start somebody else this season and be fine, but you feel like they'd really, in a perfect world, like to add a guy. So if it goes one through four quarterbacks, then the chances of six goes up. I think it's going to end up being five if I had to guess. Folks, if you don't know what a vpn is you might actually need one and not even realize it if you already know the positives you also might not be using the right product in either case you want to check out surf shark vpns keep your information safe and anyone who tries to track what you're doing online will not be able to do so if you are using

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Can't see a YouTube video because of your location? Use Surfshark VPN. Can't access that one website to buy limited edition sneakers use surf shark vpn try surf shark today totally risk-free with a 30-day money-back guarantee get surf shark vpn at surf shark dot deals slash purple insider enter the promo code purple insider for three extra months for free you heard me right three extra months for free that is surf shark dot deals slash purple insider i think five is reasonable i just can't figure out whether it's nicks or pennix that's not

actually a first round pick because i even if McCarthy does drop farther than we think, maybe the most ideal scenario for the Vikings is that everybody sticks and picks and the Vikings end up at 11 taking JJ McCarthy. And we go, how did they pull that off without having to give up the draft capital, which I don't think is insane. And I also think with Pennix and Knicks, the one problem with them is first round picks is when you put a first rounder on a guy, that's your guy. Even if you pick them at 20th,

like Kenny Pickett, where, Hey, whatever, it's the 20th overall pick. What does it matter that it didn't work out? But yet that was still like controversial that they're moving on from Kenny Pickett because he's your franchise quarterback first round pick. And that's where I just wonder, like, is someone going to be willing to do that with Bo Nix? Because I've been all over the map on him. I love how quickly he gets the football out. I do think there's a chaos element to his game. I think there's a lack of precision at times, like somebody's running a little underneath route and he just can't get the ball to them super accurately. They've got to catch it behind him, catch it out in front of them. Like, dude, come on. Like, so the ball

doesn't come out super great. Like the same way it does with Pennix. And that's the guy that I think maybe people would be hesitant to make your franchise guy. It's also probably why the Vikings do have to trade up because if you wait till 23, maybe that sounds good in theory, but that's not like, yeah, you're going all in and this is your guy. This is your Kirk replacement. So there's so many moving parts to this thing. What is your, what is your away from the draft Illuminati take about this quarterback class? Because eventually all the wide takes by the time we get to the draft have all narrowed and, and there's not a whole lot of difference in opinion by the time we get to draft night. So what is yours that you think goes farthest outside of what everybody is thinking going into the draft with these QBs?

Yeah, I don't know that I have anything super – I think Panics can be really good. I guess the question is you know can he is his career gonna last a long time and i wasn't real clear on the medical like how teams viewed the medical stuff i've gotten the sense that it's that some teams fears have been a little bit assuaged since you know seeing the the um the doctor's notes and seeing the x-rays and seeing what they're working with so i think that's a good thing, obviously, for him. In terms of just throwing the ball, I was down in Mobile and watching. It's the first day of practice.

You go down there, and there's only so much you can get from these sessions, despite everybody going crazy about how much the value of it and all that, from our perspective anyway. After three throws, I don't even know if it's that many two you know like you could just tell this dude throws the ball differently than every other quarterback down here and if we included the top guys the underclassmen who weren't a part of the game i don't know that you wouldn't leave there saying the same thing now drake may would give him a little run for his money caleb can throw the football, you know, with Caleb, it's a little different, but you know, if we're having like a, a, a bikini contest of, of arm talent shows, like it's probably coming down to, to May versus, I guess so. Yeah. I'd have to think about it a

little bit, but you know, May versus Pennix, as far as who could throw like the prettiest ball and who could make the, uh, the, the throw that gets the hair on hair on your neck standing up. So, you know, from that perspective, if he's your plan B, your afterthought, and you find a way to protect him and keep him upright, it may not be that bad, you know. So on the one hand, I'm advocating for teams to trade up for their guy and have that conviction. On the other, I'm saying this is one of those rare drafts where the alternative, the fifth best quarterback option like you could make a case

that peddix could have the best career out of all these guys as long as he you know it's it's requiring some luck but like if you told me time machine 10 years from now you'd go back and or go forward and then come back and say by the way guys michael pennix two super bowl rings you know it wouldn't totally stun me at all i feel the same way about michael pennix in fact even if it got to draft night and it was pennix ahead of mccarthy because it was all just buzz and the nfl decided right it It would blow everybody's mind. But also, as you mentioned, it's, it also did with Trey Lance where nobody saw coming that Trey Lance was going to be that guy. And with Pennix, it's not just the big arm, which of course we have to remember,

this is like what we're doing here, throwing the football over and over and over and over again, of which he was incredibly good at doing in college but also the guts of that guy taking a program to where it's never been i mean there's a lot of character stuff that i think just matches up and somebody who's been through it in college versus jj mccarthy who hasn't i mean we don't know how he's going to react to some of the adversity stuff that comes along where we know that panics is going to be able to handle it because he has been through it uh so that there's that that is the most interesting dynamic i still like panics better than mccarthy but i don't know i mean the vikings draft mccarthy it's it's fine it's a good decision last thing for you uh over the years we've had many discussions about

quarterbacks you and i and uh it's always been maybe the Vikings could do it and then they don't, but now they're doing it. I want to know from you going back and you've done this for many years. I think, I think you're at the point in your life where if I call you old, you're not even offended. I'm beyond that. Yep. It is what it is. But you, you were, you've been doing this so long with the draft that you were doing this before there was the draft Illuminati before there was like the 10,000 opinions on every draft prospect. I want you to tell me one where you were really right, one where you were really wrong. And and what you

thought of that, like what you learned about that, or if it keeps you up at night and things like that like they take me into your mind as as draft reporter analyst guy yeah i'm gonna try to pull up as we talk here i'm gonna try to pull up uh the the draft history page i love looking at when i have it up so i'm gonna try to pull up quarterback here i'm gonna use quarterback because that's obviously the easiest position like i could tell you about some Nickelback I love and everyone goes stupid. Right. Dak Prescott was, it was a good hit for me. I mean, I had my number 37 or eight prospect overall. I was kind of shocked that there was this like, you know, day two, day three debate with him. And I'm going, man,

I don't know. I watched him just tear people up this year. I guess, you know, and, and I just, I was like, I'm, I'm willing to stand alone on this one. And now I think he fell farther than some people imagine. Like, I don't think anyone thought he'd be the 10th quarterback in that class drafted, but you know, maybe more like the sixth, seventh, eighth or something, uh, that still puts them in either the late third or early fourth. And I had them, you know, kind of right outside the first round. So that was a pretty good one right there. I'm kind of looking back. I was, I was learning about, go ahead.

Well, just with Dak Prescott, I was a fan as well, that draft. And I remember hearing that, well, and I was in Buffalo and I remember hearing that they wanted him and they ended up with Cardale Jones because someone picked them in front of them. But what I thought about with Dak Prescott was toughness and how it's so cliche. It's so like caveman, you know, you gotta be tough or whatever. But he was, he's just such a tough player in college. And similarly to Pennix, that program was absolutely nothing and he was grinding with them he was kind of the whole offense and they get to what they were in the top five at one point or something i remember and it's like hey man if somebody can kind of drag a program that's never

there up into that relevancy versus like an alabama that's always there i'm i'm interested you have my attention, even if there are details to that guy's game that aren't perfect when he's coming out. Oh, absolutely. I mean, there's no doubt about it. Look, I always, I hate to pick on Mitch Trubisky. He seems like a nice guy, but like Mitch has NFL ability, like, you know, physically speaking, he's not, you know, he didn't have a stunning arm. He didn't have a gifted physical build. But I think he had all the raw tools to be great. He just didn't have a killer instinct.

You know, he's a nice guy and he was insecure and he was – you know, all these things that all of us have these qualities, right? There are very few humans on the planet, I think, who have both the mental capacity to play quarterback and also the physical traits, right? There's some college quarterbacks who are brilliant, right? And a lot of them end up becoming OCs in college and then later in the NFL too. And, I mean, that's just the – you have to respect the toughness.

You have to respect the competitiveness, the smarts, whatever that mental capacity is. And, yeah, I'm trying to think of somebody who I was like, I had Deshaun Kaiser around the same range as Dak Prescott. And that was one where physically he looked the part. He's a big, thick sort of Steve McNair-looking guy. Mentally, it was a challenge for him. And yeah, I mean, that's where you make mistakes, I think, is not respecting the marriage of those two things. I mean, I think you can get by with a little less physical trait

and a little bit more mental than you could the other way around. But, you know, physical ability matters too. So I think I just overrated the physical with Kaiser and kept thinking, well, someone's going to take a chance on him in round one. It just didn't happen, and there's a reason why he fell where he did and never panned out. That 18 draft class was the hardest one for me because I was super right on Lamar Jackson.

Baker's spam, yeah, right. Yeah, super wrong on Josh Allen. And there was just such a wide range of types of quarterbacks there. And also production where Baker Mayfield had production that was basically unprecedented in college football. And Josh Allen was throwing the football into the stands every third pass. And just like, well, these are both first round picks the josh rosen thing where he looked like such a just and that's where toughness comes in right rosen came across as super smart super polished but then he was just soft and he just didn't care enough and how are you supposed to

know that when he came to minnesota very briefly yeah we uh we talked to him in his locker just i mean he was there for just a couple of weeks, but we asked him. So, you know, hey, like what have you been doing to stay ready to go or whatever? And he was like, you know, it's actually nice to have some time off. Had Thanksgiving with my family. I'm like, oh, so you're not like a sociopath in the right way. Like, you know, as you have to be to be like, you're probably too normal of a guy to do this. And that's the problem.

And, and did he have a hot, was he sitting in the hot tub in front of his locker based on that, that old photo that would have been the, yeah, I mean, you're right. I think they're just like, sometimes I hear old Tom Brady interviews and think that dude is psychotic, man. Like, but guess what? That kind of made him who he was. And again, I'm not saying every quarterback has to be a weirdo, right? I mean, you just have to be compartmentalized, focused, drilled down on what's important, put in the time, all that stuff. But yeah, man, that mental quotient cannot be overlooked, cannot be dismissed. And if you see it on the wrong end, they better have elite physical traits and have some running ability otherwise it's

just not gonna work i just think that almost any industry if you are great like truly great you got to be a little weird like the number of right like the best the best cellist in the world is he like a normal guy he, he probably got a cello when he was two and was like shredding by age five and has had no life ever. Like he's probably strange as hell. It's just that all, I think all greatness kind of comes along with this addiction to whatever you're doing. And we saw this, like Kirk is like this. He doesn't have the physical abilities to be an all time great quarterback, but Kirk is a lunatic.

Like the amount that he puts into it from really the start when he was in washington and he's got some strange elements to his personality and all that the shopping at cole's and so forth uh but uh and you see sometimes where he lacks certain things that that probably are because he spent so much of his time focused only on getting footwork right. And that OCD element. So there's always, there's always that. And maybe Josh Rosen was just too chill of a dude to ever play in the NFL. And how the heck can you know that from college football? I just don't think you ever can for what it's like to be in the NFL.

And that's why, you know, like when I, you know, I remember I did an interview series for years ago with some area scouts and scouting directors, you know, like, you know, how you got into scouting and what, what was important to them. And they all said like, look, man, we have stat trackers. We have data inputs, you know, I mean, systems that we analytics that we use, we have all this stuff. Like, like that part of my job, somebody else figures out, like my job is to figure out who they are, how coachable they are, how smart they are, how tough they are, figure out who the person is. And yes, their backpedal matters.

Yes, all this other stuff. But that can be taught. The other things, those traits really can't be. And that's why they spend so much time getting to know them, trying to get them to know them off the field, follow them around the facility. And, you know, I mean, they end up becoming, the scouts do, why they they spend so much time getting to know them try to get them know off the field follow them around the facility and you know i mean they they end up becoming scouts do become detectives almost you know and snoopers and they just try to figure out you know what i want what i rally

behind this guy as a quarterback or any other position you know that's decides whether you take a guy or not it's the hardest thing in sports to figure out which quarterback's going to succeed and that's why i love talking about it so much uh eric at home nfl.com i'm sure you'll have 14 mocks coming out before the draft one more that's it just one more that's it i've only done two so far and i've got one left yeah it's crazy oh draft season it is back uh i'm glad that we could get together. I'm sure we'll do it again after the Vikings pick their quarterback of the future. And we'll break that all down, uh, as well. So good to get back together with you, man. And we'll definitely do it again soon.

Thanks for looking forward to the next time, man. I'll see you soon. you