Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - One last roundtable, let's talk about some Vikings players

Episode Date: January 5, 2024

Matthew Coller is joined by Will Ragatz of Sports Illustrated and Andrew Krammer of the Star Tribune to talk about the very likely end to the Vikings season and they discuss the present and future of Jordan Addison, Ty Chandler, Dalton Risner and, of course, the Vikings quarterback situation Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here. And it is time for another Raggetts Roundtable. Will Raggetts of Sports Illustrated, Andrew Kramer of the Star Tribune. And most of the week, fellas, I'm going to tell you the truth. I have not acknowledged this football game. I have not. We mostly talked about Michael Penix.

And that's actually been quite fun to talk about the quarterback draft class. Bo Nix headed to the Senior Bowl. We'll be watching. But the Vikings are not eliminated from the playoffs, believe it or not. And I saw a classic pro football talk headline that said something like the Vikings path isn't that crazy, but they don't deserve to be there. Rather aggressive. But how are we feeling about this actual football game? Let's do it this way.

Kind of like around the holidays, you'd say, go around the room and talk about what does Christmas mean to you? What does Week 18 mean to you? Why don't we start with you, Will? What does this game against the Lions mean to you? Well, I'm with you in that I haven't thought about it a whole lot, like the nuances or the matchups or things like that. It's kind of a weird thing where I'm looking back at the season and doing the retrospective and it's not over yet and they still have a chance. They need like four

results to happen for them to sneak in. It's like a 3% chance by the models. So there's still some intrigue. And I think there's some things that we can discuss that will be somewhat interesting to see. And, you know, Nick Mullins last start of the year and can Justin Jefferson get a thousand yards and will Ty Chandler do anything out of just various things like that.

But I, I've really been thinking about this whole season and kind of what could have happened if certain injuries hadn't happened, if the Vikings could have held on to the football just a tiny little bit, maybe one game or two. So I've been looking back as if the season's over, but it's not. So I don't know. Week 18, it's a weird place for this Vikings season, this Vikings team.

And I don't exactly know what I think about it. Yeah, to me, it's just going to be another small kind of data point that we continue to talk about for players like Caleb Evans, Josh Metellus, the young players on this team that will be pieces or could be pieces moving forward. Because what's this year about? I feel like going around the locker room, even Justin Jefferson, when he was asked about that small chance

that you have at the playoffs, he was like, I don't know, man, we got to win and that's all we can do. And then whatever. And then, I mean, other players are talking about looking forward to the future and building for the future. They all know this is over. Fans know it's over. Yeah, they need a lot of things to break their way,

but this is really what the season was about, was developing pieces for the future after you cut the amount of veterans that you cut heading into this season. And I feel like some of them answered questions, some didn't, and this will just be the last kind of chance for them to continue to try to show that some pieces are relevant. The truth about this situation is that in the present,

we all know, they know, it's better if they lose for the draft status. I'm sure that they've heard what the difference is between making the playoffs and not. And if you're Kweisi at Afl-Mensah, there's no way you could be hoping to make the playoffs with this team because as aggressive as the pro football talk headline was, it was true. They are not deserving of a playoff spot.

They're not a good enough team to go anywhere. We know that based on especially what we saw from Green Bay, the current state of this team, as beat up as they are, the quarterback situation is not a team that could go into the playoffs and surprise people. If I'm in Los Angeles, I'm thinking, man, watch out for us because Matt Stafford's hot and Puka Nakua has been playing incredibly well as a rookie receiver. We're dangerous. We have Aaron Donald. He could kill somebody and we could win, but that's not how you feel about this team. You feel like the defense finally broke and the offense is just going to turn the ball over a bleep ton of times, no matter what. And the other problem will with

the retrospective angle is we all know what happened. The answer is just so easy that it's hard to even debate. It's hard to be like, well, should they have played cover two against the whatever? Like, no, the quarterback got hurt. Like, that's what happened. They fumbled a bunch of times. They weren't good enough really at the beginning of the season. The harder portions of the schedule have not been kind to them, probably showed who they really were anyway.

But the ironic thing is that they probably ended up with the exact same number of wins on this date that Kweisi Adafo-Mensa thought when they tore everything apart. And I went back and watched his press conference from July, and there's a lot of hedging on the competitive rebuild, a lot of like, well, you know, we think we can be competitive and so forth, but it wasn't. We're a Super Bowl team. We're chasing the Super Bowl. And so even though it got there in a way we didn't expect with Kirk's injury we kind of are in the same exact spot where we thought we would be sitting here right here right now yeah I guess the retrospective is just kind of what if Kirk hadn't gotten hurt and you

can live in in fantasy worlds all day and think about if everybody would stayed healthy and that's not how it works in the NFL Kirk Cousins has for his entire starting career stayed healthy. So that was an kind of unexpected development that really changed everything in the season. And there's just some games early on that you think of where, wow, they really could have won that game if they had made this one play at the end or not fumbled that one time. And even in this last stretch where they've lost five of six, everything before the Packers game was pretty winnable too. So they would have ended up at the same place without Kirk, where even if you had snuck in and you had banked a few more wins with

and without Kirk, it's not a team that's going to go into the playoffs and win like two or three road games, let alone maybe even one just with the way that the defense has kind of fallen apart with the way the offense just doesn't have a quarterback and can't take care of the football. So, yeah, I think you're right that they probably ended up around where they thought they would.

But if Kirk Cousins had stayed healthy, I think this would have been closer to the competitive side than the rebuild side. Now that it's more of the rebuild, what does that mean moving forward? I mean, I think you got some encouraging performances out of Jordan Addison, out of some other young players on the team, Josh Metellus stepping up, not really a young player. And then there's some other guys where it's like, all right,

we're still getting nothing out of really our entire 2022 draft class. I guess Ed Ingram is like no longer a disaster guard. He's a starting caliber guard. All the defensive players in that class really aren't playing. So there's things like that. I think Makai Blackman, Caleb Evans, a lot of up and downs. But there's a lot of evaluation that you can do from what you saw from these young players and try to decide who's going to be kind of part of the next good Vikings team. The only other thing I want to see out of this game is for them not to get run out of the building

the way that they did with Green Bay and show that they are that far from Detroit. I know this is not like a great representation of who the Vikings are right now or even potentially moving forward with the changes they can make. But Detroit has looked pretty good. They looked pretty good against the Vikings two weeks ago, and it could get ugly with what this Vikings team is trotting out there. Especially the defensive side. It just broke. And this also goes for explanations that I think are pretty easy, but let's talk about it anyway.

Against Green Bay, they had no chance on defense. That looked like the 2020 defense on Christmas Day, and it could have been a 50-point performance from Green Bay had they kept the foot on the gas pedal or just finished a couple of times in the red zone or on third and short or fourth and short or whatever. And the same explanation that was there then is there now, which is you are so thin on the roster on defense, which was always our concern, even through training camp. And I remember Kevin O'Connell saying, yeah, actually this defense has outperformed my expectations. And like,

well, that's probably because you looked at the depth chart and you saw the first level even has a bunch of guys that are unproven. And as you said, Will, we've seen a number of those players become pieces for the future. Ivan Pace, Josh Patelis, a lot more confidence in Cam Bynum now. We weren't even sure whether he would win the job coming out of camp versus Louis scene. That looks silly now because Bynum had a great year and Louis scene is on the roster technically. But I think we,

even with the defense, it's just, yeah, this is who they were always going to be if they lost a couple of key pieces. So I don't think there's any blitz they could have run, any coverage they could have dropped back. Like eventually it just became a matter of who you have out there and who you're trying to survive with. Yeah, no Byron Murphy Jr. I think really hurt.

No DJ Wanham clearly was affected. I think that's like two of their top eight defensive players this whole season. So you lose that. I think some other guys who maybe had been playing well, just it wasn't always going to hold up every single week just with the roster talent some of the experience of these guys i to me i don't look unfavorably at brian flores for the last few weeks like the fourth quarter against cincinnati the lions game this packers game i mean it could have gone better i'm sure there's probably calls and game plans and things that he would like to tweak. But it's still just the overall kind of sample of this season.

It's a really impressive coaching job to do with these players and this personnel what he was able to do all year. So if this maybe little lull at the end of the season dissuades some teams from wanting to hire him as their head coach i think that's good for the vikings i think they would love to have him back as their defensive coordinator for as long um as he's able to stay here and that doesn't get hired somewhere else just because imagine what he can do if you are able to kind of upgrade that talent level and there's young guys you mentioned pace bynum um mckay blackman like guys who are gonna ideally take another step and continue to develop in this program and then you just got to bring in more talent and that's where uh we'll talk about the draft a ton for the next three four months and it's like you'd love to go get a

quarterback early you'd also love like the defensive tackle from illinois newton who's really really good they needed a difference maker in the middle of the the defensive line they need more talent at cornerback. So it's a bummer about the 2022 draft because I think they were really hoping that that was going to do some things and give them some foundational pieces for what they want to build on defense, and that just really hasn't happened. But it doesn't mean you got to keep trying, obviously, and you got to keep reloading and find some real core pieces on defense.

And they found a couple this year, but you need a lot more. Can you guys name who the edge rushers are that are signed beyond this year? I'm going to guess Andre Carter and must be Patrick Jones. That's it. And Andre Carter is not ready to play. He's going to have to maybe lift some weights in the offseason. Yeah, they don't have any edge pressure. They don't have good corners right now.

Caleb Evans isn't even playing well right now since he got back onto the field. And Makai Blackman's limited in who he is. He's probably always going to be a part-time sub-package player, probably not designed to be an outside corner anyway in the system, but he's just had to be. Andrew Booth has been a guy that seems aloof

to the coaching staff and hasn't really kind of asserted himself. And it's an interesting spot to be in for him in his second year as a second round pick, who they won't even really get much of a chance to. The most notable thing he's done this season was getting a fight with Aaron Jones after the game on Sunday. It's incredible. That was his only moment on Sunday Night Football. So I just think this has been a really disappointing um ending for this corner group and byron murphy's really because of the injury but he had some up and down moments too he was the only guy murphy that can make a play on the ball for this corner um spot in this three safety amalgamation

of a defense was born in necessity of not having corners um and i think that's going to be addressed and fixed this offseason, much like a Mike Zimmer defense always needed one more. In that, you saw get exposed on Sunday against the Packers. You saw the edges get exposed, having no edge pressure or defense against the run. They don't have Hunter, Davenport, or Wanham under contract for next year. They might re-sign one or two of those guys, but even then, you still need more help. I don't know which one or two of those guys are getting re-signed. I mean, maybe Hunter. Maybe Hunter. Wanham is a guy I could see bringing back on a budget deal that becomes a role player. He's designed to be that third or fourth guy. Yeah, no, that's true. And he had a good year.

He deserved the credit that he got for being kind of an average player, but getting sacks and above average against the run, which average is good in the league. But if we're talking about difference maker, that's not the case with DJ Wanham. And of course, Marcus Davenport, there's no point to that because that's just, uh, you're going to end up with the same stuff. Probably. I mean, I think that his career is just what it is, which is kind of one injury after the next. And there's not a whole lot you can really do there. That ended up going bust as a signing. But there's a real lesson in Marcus Davenport as a signing, which is when you try to find

under the radar signings, when you try to shop in the bargain bin, what you get is the Batman doll with Spider-Man's head on it. Sometimes in the bargain bin, you think you're getting Batman doll with Spider-Man's head on it. Sometimes in the bargain bin, you think you're getting a great deal and it's actually just something twisted and weird. And that's been a lot of their signings actually since Kirk Cousins got here. That's the point I think about the defense that needs to be made and that Green Bay made for them is look at what you really have. You lose a player or two and look at what you really have and look at what you have for the future on this defense. You have an all-world

defensive coordinator and not a lot of all-world talent. And if Harrison Smith retires and Daniil Hunter leaves, you have zero Pro Bowls on the entire defense. And by the way, Harrison Phillips deserves a lot of praise for gutting it out and playing way more snaps than he ever should have. But I saw a chart the other day. We love the charts that showed the players with the lowest win rates for a defensive tackles. And he was dead last for pass rush win rate. Like they have no one who can impact the game on the defensive line under contract. And with Daniil Hunter, if I'm him, I'm taking top dollar or I'm leaving because they've tried to do him kind of dirty over the

years of, we don't want to sign you. We don't want to sign you. And that now has finally kind of come to bite them a little bit with him not being under contract and can't be franchise tagged. And to me, that is the biggest question of the offseason that surrounds the quarterback. It's not just who will be the quarterback, but then what on the defensive side. Because one thing we didn't talk a whole lot about through the season is just how many people are leaving.

And when you walk into that locker room and a third of the guys aren't going to be there and you have to replace them, who are you replacing them with? How are you replacing them? So I want to play a game because that's what we have to do on the round table when they're playing the lions with a 3% chance for the playoffs. I want you guys to pick a guy and say, here's a guy. And then talk about that guy. And I mean, for the game,

for their big picture players of interest for you guys, for either. I mean, if you, if you want to go against the lions, for their big picture, players of interest for you guys, for either, I mean, if you want to go against the Lions, that's totally fine, or just in general for the future, because that's what broadcasts do. Here's a guy, and then they just talk about the guy. So who's your guy? Who do you want to talk about, Will?

Let's talk about Josh Metellus. I'll start there, because breaking down the defense like we just have for the past five, 10 minutes kind of has made me realize it's, it's bleaker than I even realized, uh, with the outlook beyond this season and just all of the holes that they have to fill and all the holes that, uh, are already exist in the new ones that are going to arrive this offseason. But I think Josh Metellus is a bright spot and a kind of a real success story for the front office of identifying this player and saying, OK, he's only played like 200 defensive snaps before, but we're going to give him this two-year team-friendly extension. And then he becomes a full-time starter.

And if a couple guys opt out to injury or the Super Bowl or whatever, he might end up in the Pro Bowl. And then they would have maybe one Pro Bowl if Danny Hunter and Harrison Smith aren't back on the defensive side. But to me, just he's been a perfect fit for the Brian Flores defense. He's not like some superstar building block, but just a very capable, very versatile player. And maybe the Brian Flores defense next year should just have 11 safeties. And they could they could just build the whole the whole plane out of that and see how that works but I don't know I thought I'd

start out after all the the down talk on the defense with a guy who really has impressed this season and is going to be a key part of this defense for a long time I think yeah I would kind of go the same vein and say ivan pace is somebody that throughout the year has continued to play better and even when jordan hicks went down you saw him take another step in an ascension where there were some issues with him handling um the communication and getting the play calls out to everybody he's not the most he's not the loudest guy he's pretty quiet just in general when he talked to him in the locker room but that was an issue apparently on the field as well but he can play he's such a good run defender. He was the main reason why

they had such a good run defense. The combination with him and Hicks, if you would have told me back in March that cutting Eric Hendricks was going to be such a seamless transition in the middle for that group, and Hicks played really well, especially before that injury. I think that was kind of an underrated part of why that defense was playing so well was those two guys with Metellus forming kind of a really good interior behind what's really, as you guys talked about, a mediocre defensive tackle group. I saw somewhere that Harrison Phillips has played the most defensive snaps,

to your point, Matt, since Kevin Williams in 2012 for the Vikings. Just too much to ask. It's way too much. It's way too much. That's on the gravestone of the Vikings. Just too much to ask. It's way too much. It's way too much. That's on the gravestone of the defense. Just too much to ask. There was a lot of players who were just too much to ask. As you said, Makai Blackman, kind of an undersized guy.

I think that he has the ability to play outside corner. But, I mean, if you're just asking him to save games for you and shut down Corlin Sutton or something like too much to ask too much to ask a Caleb Evans to play as many snaps as he did. Eventually that got exposed. A Caleb Evans is a fourth round draft pick who I think had zero interceptions in college. Like this should be somebody who's coming off your bench, not playing a thousand snaps. Although I'm glad he stayed healthy this year after what he went through last year. And, you know, I thought through most of the year he had been an okay player, but the longer you go on, the more of those weaknesses

get exposed. And these should be guys that rotate in. These should be guys who give you depth on a great defense. And instead it's like, no, actually go, go take on Jamar chase off. You go see how we're, I mean that, right. So, uh So with both of those players, the interesting thing about your selections is how much differently we view them now than in week one, which we should add to the sort of formula of the discussion because when Josh Metellus started playing in the slot, we're like, oh, this Brian Flores guy is going to mix him in. And then he plays like 95% of the snaps.

He's out there every single play. I wonder if we think that Metellus is going to take Harrison Smith's spot next year. I don't know how you guys feel about Harrison Smith's situation. It seems like this might be the time where he decides to walk away. And if you have a Bynum-Metellus combination and you could slide Byron Murphy into a nickel spot, then you need to replace somebody a corner. You could play Blackman or rotation. But the weakness there, I think, is you need a real shutdown corner,

like a real top flight type of guy because you're not getting easier when it comes to the passing games in this division. So you're going to need that guy. But how do we feel about this being potentially Harrison Smith's last game? I think it could be. I think it would maybe be one of those things from the Vikings' perspective where you don't want to wait a year too long, which they've done a bunch of times in the past, like late Rick Spielman era.

You wait one more year, and then it's like, all right, you should have done that last year. I mean, Harrison Smith is a legend. He's a shoe-in for the Ring of Honor, obviously, quite possibly a Hall of Famer. But this year, he was kind of just fine. He didn't have a single pick, which I think had some more to do with his more dynamic and versatile responsibilities this year than when he had five picks last year under Ed Donatel just playing a deep half of the field all the time.

I think he's still a quality player. I think PFF would agree with that, and the eye test would agree with that. But I think you have the versatility. If you want to save some money, that is one place where you could do it and get a little younger, and you could roll with Bynum and Metellus. I think Theo Jackson is underratedly a kind of a guy who you can play as a third or fourth corner. I guess he was a fourth corner this year. He like a third or fourth corner um i guess he was

the fourth corner this year he could probably be that third corner um and hold up there so it's it's a spot where you have a rare spot on defense where you have a little depth and i think they i think it might be harrison smith's last game as a viking i'm not sure but we'll see i think if harrison wants to come back next year i think he. And I just think that's probably because we saw him take such a drastic pay cut last year. It makes me think that he's willing to do that again if it comes to that. And that's what it would be for the Vikings is,

hey, you're worth a spot on the 53. It's just a matter of where we're going to put you on that. What's your playing time going to be? I have no idea. Would it be the same role? Could he replace, could Metellus replace him even if he's still on the roster in terms of a starting role and having Harrison be a part-time package guy

if they get corners they're happy with? That's a lot of ifs. But the point is that I think Harrison's amenable to so much in playing for Brian Flores. And Flores clearly loves him. And I don't think they, I think they overvalue and I think we undervalue the role of that old veteran guy in that locker room for a very young locker room. And then that's also a spot where we see 35-year-olds

continue to play in the NFL. We see them have part-time roles elsewhere. So I wouldn't be shocked if he does come back, but that's a question that frankly he has to answer about how he feels. He said last year, the question I asked myself is, do I think I can still play? He tries to be honest with himself about that. And it will be fascinating to hear what he thinks now. Yeah, I guess I was thinking if he wants to come back, they'll probably have him. It feels like just from what I've heard that it's important to them that he retires a Viking. And I think he wants to retire Viking, As you, as you mentioned, all those other guys feel in Delvin cook, whatever there was discussion of pay cuts and all of them were like, no, I'm going to go somewhere else. And, uh, did not work out

particularly great for Delvin cook. Uh, Adam Thielen got a lot of catches, not a lot of Ws. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Kansas city chiefs, great work, not picking up Adam Thielen or Deandre Hopkins and instead sticking with Marcus Valdez scantlingantling. That did not work out well. But Eric Hendricks played a lot of snaps for the Chargers. Not a great season. So picking up those types of players, as we were talking about with Davenport, somebody else's disposed of players, not always a great idea, but I think there's something about Harrison Smith that just raises above that level that he has been, as you said, a hall of fame caliber player. And that's a little bit above where I would have those other guys. And I think that's important to them that if he wants to be here, he's going to be here. I just think we have reached a point where he's put so much mileage on his body. I'm not sure he's going to want to go through that again, not speaking for him at all, just watching throughout the season, like early in the season, there seemed to be some juice and

it just wore down and wore down, uh, as it even does for us doing the round table. I want to switch over to the offensive side and talk about Ty Chandler and what we think we've seen from him because from a running the football man with ball in hand go that way perspective he's got he's got the the goods i think he's got rb1 potential from the perspective of having the ball in your hands and make it plays uh but do you think that at the start of next year this might be a milkshake bet for us i'm gonna lose to you on kj osborne and Jordan Addison, by the way. But is he RB1? Is he taking the first snap of the 2024 season as this team's running back? That's a good question. The safe answer, actually, I don't know what the safe answer would be. He's on the roster and I don't think it's going to be Alexander Madison so I think in that degree it's

it's safe but it's such an easy relatively position to bring somebody else in uh it'll all depend on how far they think he's come in just the the aspects other than take the ball and run in a straight line that way and there was a really kind of blatant reminder of that in that Packers game when he just got roasted by Quay Walker and a blitz pickup for a sack and you're like oh yeah that's that's why he hasn't been RB1 all year it's you can't ignore that stuff and as easy as it is to just be like all right live with that and give him the ball um he had a huge game a few weeks ago it was Bengals I think Cincinnati, Cincinnati had a huge game. Last couple weeks, not as much. I mean, I don't know how much has been his fault.

They kind of haven't really stuck with the run in these last two divisional games. I will say yes, because I think that they really like what he does with just having that burst and that explosiveness and the big play threat from the running back position and kind of like we've talked about it before, like the Miami thing with their running backs just having that burst and that explosiveness and the big play threat from the running back position. And kind of like we've talked about it before, like the Miami thing with their running backs and what that allows you to do.

If you're able to block something up correctly it's, I don't feel super confident in it as a fifth round pick in his third season who hasn't played a whole lot and still maybe struggles with the, some of the nuances of the position, but I'll say yes for now yeah what chandler did in cincinnati was great right um but we talked about it a couple weeks ago they're so bad on defense that i think that was a an example of what he can do in terms of gashing just an awful awful group um in the bangles who have been gashed by a lot of people

i would be surprised if chandler's the starting guy in the first snap next year, just because they're going to have an off season of really being refreshed of, wow, what we tried to do in the running game did not work. So why are we going to run back the same pieces? And I wonder if many things will change.

I think CJ Ham's under contract, but that's a week to week thing with an almost 30 year old full year to year thing with an almost 30 year old fullback. As you mentioned, Madison Chandler will surely be here i don't know if long will be here but chandler will surely be here i just don't know in what role a lot of smart teams just throw a bunch of different pieces at it a bunch of different cheap pieces at it throw them into camp and see how that rotation and committee shakes out and not bank on one workhorse guy and i wouldn't be shocked if that's how this front office views it. We're going to go get a couple more mid-level pieces, just throw it in, and then see who emerges as the top guy through the summer.

If that's Chandler, great. That means he's taken a lot of steps forward in the pass protection stuff, being reliable. Then that's great. He needs to grow, though, from where he's at right now to do that. But I think we're going to be looking at and talking about a couple new running backs next summer. Yeah, I don't think that this combination worked particularly well. Chandler strikes me as a guy who you would want to play 15 to 20 snaps per game

out of 60, and you have some workhorse play the rest of them who can handle everything. And if you had a rotation where it's somebody that also is good, but can pass block, that person could be in in those situations. There were even times, though, where Ty Chandler wasn't even running the right direction and the quarterback would go to hand it to him and he wouldn't be there and then have to scramble. There was one play in Cincinnati where Nick Mullins just went like, huh? Like, dude, where were you?

Where were you? And it's a hard game. There's a lot to remember. There's a lot going on. Some players make it look easy, but this is kind of simple stuff. And through year two, that should be mastered by now. So if you can't, then you're more of a rotational fill-in type back, even if you have some of the same burst and quickness and break tackle ability as other really good running backs in the league. But if that was the game,

if it was pure athleticism, if it was a track meet, then John Ross would have been the greatest receiver in the league, but he wasn't. He was a terrible receiver. Sorry, John Ross, you didn't deserve that. I don't even know what you're doing now. Just out of nowhere for no reason, but he was a top 10 pick because he ran a 4-2, and it did not work out. Who wants to pick a guy? Any guy. Week 18, baby.

One more game, probably. Let's stay with the running game, sort of, or it's adjacent at least. You know, I think the only one on the offensive line to talk about is Dolan Reisner at left guard because the other four guys are under contract next year if i'm not mistaken and i mean christian derisaw's got a big extension coming up that was weird by the way with the pro bowl where he's like the fourth alternate in the nfc like the seventh best tackle in the nfc and he's like the fourth highest graded in the entire league by PFF. But I think that's just, he's just not,

the name recognition isn't quite on the level of like the Lane Johnsons and Trent Williams, Panay Sewell, all those guys. Anyways, Dalton Reisner is sort of an interesting one as far as left guards go, because he came in this year and everyone was clamoring for them to sign Dalton Reisner. And they did, and then he was just kind of fine and he wasn't some season savior that I think fans maybe were hoping he would be and he looked like a guy who was a starting guard in the NFL and started a bunch of games with the Broncos

and is pretty good in pass protection which was his reputation coming in and maybe not a super good run blocker in the zone stuff. I don't know. So I guess, will he be here? Will he be the left guard next year? I'm not sure. Ezra Cleveland's gone.

I don't know. You could just not pay Dalton Reisner and, and go with like Blake Brandel there or something, or you could sign somebody else. I don't know, but I think it's at least an interesting discussion to some extent. Yeah, I think he's been an upgrade in pass protection over the... Ezra Cleveland would just have these quick beat lapses that for a guy in his fourth year

shouldn't have, whereas Reisner gave them some consistency there, but he doesn't do anything, I don't think, in the run game for you. He doesn't move a whole lot of people. He's got to build like Alex Boone a little bit, kind of like a top. But anyway, I think that when we're talking about this O-line, I would be shocked if Reisner gets brought back just because I didn't see a whole lot there. You would be shocked?

I would be just because unless it's an affordable depth piece, but he drew such a line this year in waiting to sign that. I feel like another team is going to look at what he did for the Vikings and probably maybe value it more than what the Vikings did in wanting to get a more complete player and somebody that can build around long term. I think, though, it's been a success, you know, in terms of him fitting into the locker room and doing what he did this year, what they needed. Sure, it's been great. But long term, I would be shocked about that. The guy I want to talk about is Jordan Addison, because we talk a lot about him. We've talked a lot about him for good reason, but not in the last two months of quarterback

upheaval. He's been probably one of the brightest spots of Kweisi's tenure here. Him and TJ Hawkinson are the two biggest additions Kweisi has had. And that is going to be the foundation with Jefferson that if you're talking about Michael Penix, if you're talking about whatever quarterbacks you want to plug in here, he is a big reason why that's going to be such a great landing spot. If it's not Kirk for whoever, because this rookie year was sensational for him. He proved he can play in the NFL at that weight, at that size. Teams do get rough with them. They try to bully him around and like Jefferson,

he needs to learn to kind of grow against that and continue to build his body up to sustain that. But this kid can play. And it was a home run pick. We do the same thing with you in scrums when we're trying. We just bully you out of the way. Right. The little. So sometimes, you know, when we talk about the draft, the last two drafts for Kweisi Daffomensa, there's like, oh, the 2022 was a total disaster. And it was. There's no debating that. Oh, well, they hit on Jordan Addison. But we can't just say you hit on a phenomenal wide receiver.

But it could have been Quentin Johnston. It very well could have been. It couldn't have been because I know he went early. My point is like overall, like with the receivers. Yeah. And if it had, you know, Addison or Zay Flowers, which my understanding was those were the two guys that they wanted. Either one of them would have worked out great. But you can't just sort of cruise by the fact that you got someone that could have such a significant impact on what you do.

And if you go through the teams that compete for the Superbowl and look, who's your wide receiver to a lot of times that guy's got to be just as much of a star as wide receiver one or in the ballpark. If you're really going to compete and San Francisco is a great example. They drafted Debo Samuel, then went back to the well and got Brandon Iuke. And it wasn't a perfect run for him to get to where he is now. But now that guy's a freak show. And how do you stop San Francisco when they have Debo Samuel and Brandon Ayuk? And that's what the Vikings have created here with Jordan Addison. If you were to tell me that every other draft pick busted, but you hit on a star wide receiver to go along with

Jefferson, I'd be like, take it. Oh, you could have four defensive players turn out fine or Jordan Addison. Give me Jordan Addison all day. I can find another safety. I can find another whatever else they messed up on. But finding a receiver of that level of talent who can steal the ball away from somebody in San Francisco and scoot to the end zone like he did to make contested catches. I still don't know how the ball in Cincinnati was caught. And I'm talking about both of them. Like one of them was at his shoestring where he had to contort his body. The other one wasn't even thrown to him, I don't think. And he just reached up and snatched it. He had as good of a year as you ever could have hoped from him for someone making a difficult transition. He stayed healthy for the entire year. Even after getting banged up,

he was able to play through it. And he showed, in my mind, a mental capacity for the game that was really spectacular when Justin Jefferson went out. Multiple times where somebody goes out in a game and now you've got to adjust. He kept them in that game against Kansas City

by making plays when Jefferson went out. I'd give it an A season for Jordan Addison. And you mentioned it, Andrew, but to me, this is significant to what they do at quarterback. Because if you're saying, do we need a Kirk Cousins level quarterback, or does this improve your chances of the next guy succeeding? And it is no mistake that Brock Purdy is succeeding because he's got those two wide receivers and a great tight end, which the Vikings also have. So I think that this is like more significant than we give it credit for, because the minute we've decided on a player like, oh, he's good. Let's go on to the next guy. Who do you want to talk about? Who sucks?

Like we just we just sort of decide he's good and then move on. But we should stop and we should bring it up and say, this has been an incredible year for Jordan Addison. I'm with you completely. With honorable mentions to Ivan Pace and to the safeties and Brian Flores, Jordan Addison is clearly the biggest positive development of this season. And he's just proved that he can play at a really high level. He's proved that he has that dog in him, that he can overcome the lack of size and he can make the contested catches.

And I think the one that sticks out to me is his leaping sideline toe tap against Atlanta when they were doing the comeback with Josh Dobbs. And that was just an unbelievable catch. And I mean, Kirk Cousins called it out like six weeks into the season, like after, I don't know if it was before green Bay or something like we hit on that traffic and he,

he knew. And I think he's a pretty good, a really good source for that. And so I, I don't know, it was before Green Bay or something like we hit on that draft pick and he, he knew, and I think he's a pretty good, a really good source for that. And so I think it's, it's undeniably clear. They hit on that draft pick. He has to just make, you know, make smart decisions in the off season, but I think learned that lesson already. It's just absolutely a foundational piece that makes you think like, this is such a good setup for any quarterback. It's the tackles. It's Jefferson who I'm assuming that they're a good setup for any quarterback. It's the tackles. It's Jefferson, who I'm assuming that they're going to get that deal done. It's Addison.

It's Hawkinson. It's really hard to get a whole lot better than that for sticking in a quarterback, whether it be you bring back her cousins, whether it be you draft a rookie, which is the more fun and exciting option. Yeah, Addison becoming that legitimate number two who can win against single coverage, who can win against zone coverage, make contested catches, make things happen after the catch. Just a total home run pick for the Vikings. All right. The last guy I want to bring up is the mystery man. KJ Osborne? No. Oh, wow. That is the most ruthless thing you've ever said on the podcast.

That was tough. Tough year for KJ Osborne. Yeah, he's a free agent. I'm assuming maybe not back. I think with both Osborne and Alexander Madison, there was so much made of like, this is it for you, buddy. Like, this is your year that they put a lot of pressure on themselves. And I felt like it may have impacted how they played or just the more that

you put on somebody who's a good player, but not a great player. There's eventually that like sort of Peter principle type of thing where if you elevate someone far enough, they'll become incompetent. And like, that is kind of what happened with both of those guys. Didn't you think what Justin,

Justin Jefferson said yesterday when asked about what did this year tell you about what this team needs in the future? He said a lot of things, but at the end, he said, we just need to stop pressing and stop putting so much on ourselves. He talked about the mental side that you're talking about with certain guys putting too much on them. Yeah. And I mean, I think that's natural. You get a big contract or you are up for a contract and there's just a little try too hard. I also felt like that KJ Osborne did not really fit in this offense, that Jordan Addison is built in a lab for this where it's like shifty and one-on-one and downfield and everything. And he did this in

college. He did it in training camp. Like that's who he is. KJ Osborne is more of a run an underneath route, get him the football and watch that guy run 20 yards. And that's when he is. KJ Osborne is more of a run an underneath route, get him the football and watch that guy run 20 yards. And that's when he had his most success in 2021. That's not the role he's had the last two years. And if not for about four games at the end of last year, it would be a pretty miserable time for him the last two seasons overall. I think somebody in the league, like this would be a, if Kyle Shanahan signed him and had him run across the field every time he would look really good. But I don't think it was a fit. And I do think the drops were I'm trying too hard. Every drop is got to earn a contract. It was it was a very difficult year for him.

But I want to talk about the the mystery of quarterback and get your guys opinions before we head into this last game. We talk about that position. Is that really important? This is a transition toward the end of the show, Will, because we have to go to the locker room shortly. So that's what's happening here. But I also want your guys' opinions as we go into this of what you think they're going to do. Like, let's get it on record before week 18 here of what you feel like

they're going to do. I am staying in the camp that I've always been in that cousins will not come back because I don't think that was ever the plan. Of course, somebody from upstairs or maybe New Jersey could also call in a shot and that could very well happen. So do you think that next year, week one, we talked about Ty Chandler starting. Do you think it's Kirk Cousins starting under center? Because everything one we talked about ty chandler starting do you think it's kirk cousins starting under center because everything we just talked about right there was like yeah they got this for the off season they got this for the all that and don't forget about the city you know and uh that to me is very hard to argue that you could bring back kirk and then have superbowl

expectations based on what you have even as good as as Jordan Addison and Justin Jefferson are. Yeah, I've been in the same camp as you this season, that it would be the last year of Kirk. It's just kind of that timeline has made sense. As kind of we've watched the last two months without him, that has maybe changed a little bit, though, although I don't know that it should because I guess kind of things went how I expected them to when Kirk went down and you're playing three different backup quarterbacks. I remember you saying Dobbs Superbowl at one point.

Yeah, that was, that was facetious. After the Saints game, we were all in such like a high, like a helium head rush. I like halftime of the Saints game when they were playing higher by Creed. I was like,

Oh, they're going to win Superbowl. But I got a little carried away there. I think there is a little bit of the absence makes the heart grow fonder with Kirk. Like his, I mean, his local popularity has never been higher. The guy ripped his shirt off

before sounding the horn on Sunday. And that was like the best moment of the night. And then the game stunk. I think there are a lot of people in like the fan base who would love to see Kirk back. I think you have to kind of try to take a step back and not be like, oh, man, Kirk was playing so well this year before. What if? Let's bring him back.

The offense will be so good. I get that. You have to take a step back and think about this, the big picture, and think, all right, maybe there's a chance because I think Kevin O'Connell really likes having the Kirk Cousins quarterback. I just don't think it's going to make sense at the number that Kirk will probably want if his entire career of the business side is any indication. So to me, it might be an offer from Quacey where it's at this number, maybe we do it and maybe you draft a quarterback too. And you have a bridge guy.

Kirk has a bridge guy for a year or two, but I don't know. I still don't really see it because of all the things we've talked about, where if you move on, if you let Kirk walk and you draft somebody and you sign like a, a much cheaper bridge option that gives you the money to go and get a proven defensive tackle and free agency or a proven cornerback or just address some of the other holes that you have. So to me, as fun as

the half season of Kirk was this year, as fun as or as much as people are like, oh, we really are done with this backup quarterback thing. I want Kirk Cousins back. I still think you have to kind of stick to the original plan. Yeah. And there are so many factors that play, I think with every loss and the closer that first round draft pick gets to the top 10. I think that lowers the chances of Kirk coming back just because that time horizon, as Quasey likes to say, you can look at that and say, boy, a rookie contract, a rookie quarterback, that looks great. And now we're in position to jump up five spots from where we're at to make it happen. I think the collapse of this team doesn't necessarily – it makes you kind of remember what it's like with Kirk and how much better it is with him.

And I think they've always been eyes wide open to that. I don't think this changed anything for them. Yeah, yeah, yeah right that was actually totally accidental how about that as well um they've always understood that though they've always loved kirk and that's the reason why they make collar crazy by keeping him um i just feel like that moving forward kirk is going to want to come back uh it's a matter of that that price as we talk ad nauseum about um i i also think though that this team wants to start the future it wants to truly dive into that rebuild and you can't do that without resetting that quarterback spot so i would say sitting right now i would bet he's not

back because of this collapse of this team and how high that draft pick has gotten and because what we do know that they were enamored even last year with what this quarterback class can be. I just want them to take me higher in the standings than they've been over the years with Cousins. No, you know what the thing for me, it's with Cousins what they've done. And this is no fault of his own. He just signed the contracts and played football and played the best football

they ever could have dreamed of when they signed him. So if you look at who he was in Washington, he's a better quarterback here. He was himself. So it's always been about the front office decision. They chased the past every time. They chased 2017 and 2018, but you can't redo the year with another quarterback. And they chased 2019 with 2020 by bringing him back. Oh, well, you want to play off games. So let's, but they couldn't run it back because they lost a lot of people. And if they chase green Bay and San Francisco by signing him again, it's very likely that we end up with a lot of the same results because of all the things we laid out. You had so many players on defense this year playing over their head.

You have issues on the offensive line. You have issues with the depth that receiver, you don't have a running back for the future. Like this, this roster has like 11 holes that they need to fill in the off season. And if you chase, Hey, we were right there when we beat green Bay.

Well, to me, that's a very flawed logic that has not worked out very well for them in the past. All right. As we always do, and I feel obligated to ask this, do you think they'll win this week, fellas? I'm more interested in if Michael Penix Jr.

wins the national championship on Monday night. Monday is our Super Bowl, folks. I know. That dude, oh, my goodness. Him and Jaden Daniels could both be there. They're both extraordinarily fun. If you're like, I really want Kirk, go watch the highlights of those two dudes. Michigan's defense also.

See, this is the thing. I can talk about this all day long. Michigan's defense is like playing Georgia for CJ Stroud. It's going to be a great test for Michael Penn. I'm excited. Anyways, the day before that, the Vikings do play a football game. I don't think they'll win the game.

I think Detroit, Dan Campbell said he's going to play as starters. They want to win this game. They're like locked into the three seat unless I think Dallas and Philly lose. And they're literally foaming at the mouth. I think Dan Campbell right now. They're really mad. Like,

yeah, perhaps literally foaming at the mouth after getting robbed against Dallas on Saturday night. I think they'll, even if they like limit some snap counts or whatever, I think they'll just have enough to win at home. I think that team is just on a different level than the Vikings right now. And the Vikings, even if they're going to get up for this and think there's, you know, if we win, we got a shot. I think there's just, they're just a little broken right now.

Yeah. And the Vikings right now just do not want to get embarrassed. I think there's a lot of guys looking at Cabo and the flights that are booked for the families and the vacations because we're all human, and this has been an incredibly long season for everybody. So I think the Vikings are going to put up a fight, but at some point in that second half, I don't understand how they're going to make it a game

against a very mad Detroit team that top to bottom is more talented. No way that they win this game. It's the most confident I've been, which means they're going to win. Yeah, I know, right? Get a late score, lose by eight, and set the all-time mark in one-score games. Oh, yeah. Big debate online of what a one-score game is.

I think it's eight. It's one score. It's 100% eight. Because I saw someone put out a chart of seven and if the vikings won their games within seven they're like 11 and five but if it's within eight they're yeah you know what i mean like if they're late it's much more it's like they have like they have like two or three eight point wins and no eight point loss yeah except for greenback eight does one score i i mean score once, and then you have to convert.

That's still part of the same score. Yeah. That's what I always thought. Anyway, that's where we're at right now. So we will see what happens in Detroit. But, man, Monday night is really, really our night. But, you know, look, if they win, it'll be a remarkable showing for the belief in Kevin O'Connell, I think, to beat a team, as you said, that really wants to win in Detroit and has reason to want to win.

I would project this to go in the first half, first quarter. They're fighting as hard as they can, but they just don't have enough. Detroit is a Super Bowl contender. The Vikings are not, especially with this iteration with Nick Mullins and only like two thirds of the defense. But we'll see. We will see what happens. So any given Sunday, a wonderful year with you fellows doing this round table.

It has been a highlight of every single week, except for when Andrew was sick and we couldn't do the round table, but all the other weeks you missed the preview of the game that turned out 33 to 10 or whatever. So yeah, I wasn't here last week. It was too bad. Tough.

Yeah. And you were on vacation or something but all the other ones were phenomenal round tables and i greatly appreciate you guys time i know that our listeners have really enjoyed these because i see the download numbers and they're good so thank you everybody for watching slash listening thank you guys so much and we will catch you all next time football football monday night