Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Overconfident Vikings camp opinions with The Athletic's Alec Lewis

Episode Date: July 28, 2024

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🎵 Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here along with Alec Lewis of The Athletic inside TCO Performance Center. And Alec has a podcast that we are going to promote, but not yet because we need to jump right into quarterback. Let's just call it a controversy huge controversy you're gonna go crazy already of course yeah it's this is uh you got people uh backbiting sniping each other you got jj mccarthy going against the coat no this is i'm all kidding everybody seems so much on the same page that despite the fact that we have these two quarterbacks battling against each other, we really have no drama. So I am curious about your opinion about the Vikings handling of J.J. McCarthy,

because Kevin O'Connell talked about it today. We heard Wes Phillips discuss their approach to the reps. And actually today we saw a ton of reps for J.J. McCarthy. I think he might have even had more, though, all with the second team than Sam Darnold. Uh, and they are doing what they said. They are taking it slow. They're developing him. And what we heard from him yesterday is that he's very much on board with how they're going about it. So what is your opinion? Do you think that they are taking the right path with JJ.J. McCarthy? Thanks for having me, first of all.

Good to see you. I have loved everything about it. I have. I, from the get-go, have liked the idea of the long-term play, of maximizing development, of giving a guy who is 20 years old time to learn, to ask questions, to earn reps and make mistakes, all of that. To me, there is no reason to rush something that is an investment that could in the long term be something that the people, you guys listening to this, are celebrating and cheering for a long time. So you're exactly right.

Today was probably the most reps I've seen J.J. McCarthy get. I didn't see a lot of J.J. with the ones against the other ones. There was not a ton of ones on ones. So you had sometimes J.J. out there throwing to Lucky Jackson being defended by a Caleb Evans. It's hard to get a real feel, kind of, I would say, for how effective he is against the real legitimate, uh, starting caliber type of player. But there was a red zone period that I'm sure you want to talk further about where JJ made, I w I want to say like it was three pylon throws a couple to Jalen Naylor. Uh, he hummed one pass that was incomplete at a velocity that might've been 175 miles per hour.

Um, but yeah, no, I've thought he's looked really good. Um, I, I, there have been 175 miles per hour um but yeah no I thought he's looked really good um I I there have been mistakes at times but for a 21 year old in his rookie camp his first camp there's gonna be mistakes so when Theo Jackson jumps a pass and almost picks it off like it's not surprising to me I'm not throwing my notebook down I'm not laughing i mean it's like it is what it is and and to have a guy uh be able to have the trial and error to me is i've loved it i've loved i've loved their process from the get-go i think they're doing it exactly right as well which makes this podcast uncontroversial now what what are we going to do to ramp up some rage online or whatever that's uh how you get more clicks i think think. But if we're being

reasonable about it, maybe that's what we should do. Maybe we should try to be overconfident about this. Let's try that. Let's try that. So everything I'm going to say is not exactly what I think, but if I had to be way more confident than I actually am, I would say that the path that J.J. McCarthy has started to go down early in this camp, where he has been a little on the inaccurate side, but for the most part, I thought the ball has come out on time and that there's been a lot of zip on it.

And his red zone performance was really excellent today, where he repeatedly threw touchdowns, including one with nice touch to the back of the end zone to Jalenlen nailer i think this is going phenomenally for jj mccarthy if i'm being overconfident and that the vikings are nailing this entire plan with him that will set him up to be the quarterback in week six. How's that? I mean, look, maybe I, you know, it's funny walking off the field today. And we've seen how many practices for, and yesterday's practice was like a walkthrough.

Essentially. I told Dane Mizutani, Dane, who comes on this show a lot. Like I said, like, I'm not, again, this is not gonna be the sexiest way to advertise. No, no, no. You got to go overconfident. But I told Dane, who comes on this show a lot, like I said, like I'm not, again, this is not going to be the sexiest way to advertise. No, no, no. You got to go overconfident. But I told Dane, I'm like, I don't really want to wade in the waters of, is he pushing Sam Darnold?

Is he like, I, it's just not, I don't like, I said it today. And it might be a bad thing to say, given I cover the team and I have to be engaged. But like, I don't care. I just want the guy to play. And then the chips will fall where they may when they do. Now, him starting week six, to me, it's not the most crazy thing in the entire world because you have a really tough early schedule. And if Sam Darnold struggles, then the noise is going to go crazy. And you have to turn probably at some point to a guy who you can have hope in. But like right now, I would sit here and say, I don't expect that to happen. I think Sam Donald gets a longer runway than that. But the way he's performed is, I mean, again, it's not week six starting caliber. It's not week one starting caliber.

That's not the prism I'm viewing it in. I'm viewing it in he's performed the way you would hope a guy would perform in his situation with the way they've handled it. I don't know if that's given you – yeah, that's just how I feel about it. That's not overconfident at all. That was what you were supposed to do there, and you went almost purposefully the other way. Or did you just want your reaction to my overconfidence?

I thought it was just you were the overconfident guy, and I was the realistic. That works. Now it's your turn, though. So I went, now you go. Now you give me something about J.J. McCarthy and Sam sam darnold that you would say is way overconfident so you don't really mean it but it's if you had to be overconfident this is what you'd say you didn't prep me for this um that's the point that's more fun my overconfident is that i think sam donald's gonna perform well like we could talk about maybe his day-to-day.

There were potentially, I think, like three instances that could have been picks. There might have been one that was picked. Theo Jackson seemed to have just a magnet to wherever Sam Darnold was throwing the ball. He was right there. He threw a deep ball to Jordan Addison. That was a great completion. They'll probably tweet the highlight, but I talked to you about this. I wondered if the ball should have been more down the field directly as opposed to toward the sideline so again to be crazy overconfident here

I should probably say Sam Darnold throws for 4,000 yards whatever but like look like I my overconfidence I think Sam Darnold's gonna have a really good year better than probably people on the outside think even with the practice today that was probably his least impressive thus far. Oh, it was definitely. I thought it was not a good practice for Sam Darnold. And we can talk about process and progress and results and so forth, but the results of each practice should look good if it was a good practice. I don't think anyone has ever completed every pass with no picks

and then just went, well, you know, my process was bad. Usually that means that it was going right. So today was much more difficult for Sam Darnold. And we saw more of kind of what I expected him to look like for a guy with the numbers statistically that has over his career, that these are the sort of reps where the ball wasn't coming out as fast and there were some checkdowns. And when he did throw it deeper, it either got knocked down or I agreed with you. I didn't think that was where they were supposed to go with that ball to Jordan Addison exactly.

But if you're overconfidently saying that you think that he could have a really good year, you have to qualify what that is. Like what is a really good year as give give me give me numbers give me starts give me like what what is the bar for us to say hey Sam Darnold had a really good year here well I think starts starts close to the whole year if not the whole year I think competes at a level that gives them a chance to win eight games maybe where they're there where they're kind of in the middle of I'm not in the middle, but where the division is not just obvious that they are in the cellar of the division, I'd say. Numbers wise, I don't know, 3,500 yards, a touchdown interception ratio where he has

more touchdowns and interceptions by a fair amount. Like that's my biggest concern with him is going to be the turnovers. And that's fumbles and interceptions because if you look over the course of his career the guys who have started since 2018 like he has he's near the top like around Jameis Winston Terry in terms in terms of turnovers and so that is that like today when he was thrown over the middle of the field and it was kind of these live reps it just felt like like should you really trying to be fitting that in there and if you're going to throw that ball like it better be completed and so um I think limiting the turnovers in terms of really

successful seasons if that's what we're talking that's probably the the first stat that I'm gonna probably go to more than even like a passing yards passing touchdowns if if he's turning the ball over frequently it's going to be a rough ride. And we went through this with Teddy Bridgewater. Passing touchdowns aren't always indicative of what your offense does because they were running offense when he was here with Adrian Peterson. So let's even say that Aaron Jones, if he plays well, is going to score some touchdowns. He looks great out there.

We should maybe focus on from the offensive ranking perspective. If this team ranks in the top 15 offensively and they are competing for the playoffs in the final week of the season and Sam Darnold has started the whole way, it will be a huge success for him and he will get – That's Baker Mayfield territory. Exactly. He will get phone calls. That's Geno Smith.

He will have other teams looking at him saying, hey, we want to start him next year as our bridge quarterback. If he plays that well, then I think that that signing has been a success. But would we also say that if J.J. McCarthy doesn't play, that it is not a success for J.J. McCarthy for the first year? Would you would you say that or would you not agree with that statement?

If J.J. McCarthy does not play at all this season, then it is not a successful season for McCarthy. I would not say that at all. I mean, Patrick Mahomes didn't play his entire first season and Alex Smith played. I think Patrick maybe got in. Did that happen?

I haven't heard anything about it. Yeah, yeah. I've heard Aaron Rodgers didn't play. But no, to me, if Sam Darnold played – now, if Sam Darnold is throwing four interceptions a game, Josh Dobbs style, Nick Mullins style last year, and J.J. is still not on the field, and Nick Mullins is then in the game and throwing four interceptions

and J.J. McCarthy is not on the field, then obviously. So it's circumstantial. But if Sam Darnold is doing what we just talked about, not turning the football over, hitting guys in rhythm and on time, being fairly accurate. Games where you're like two touchdowns, one pick, 215 yards. Like those types of games where you're kind of in the game, maybe you're creating havoc defensively and forcing turnovers. And if that's the situation and J.J. McCarthy's not playing,

then I don't put any credence into it other than they wanted him to have a year under his belt to learn the offense, to learn how to manage this level, this stage, and then to hit the gas. Next season, we'll have a lot of cast base and probably have a lot more talent on certain aspects of the team. So that's been my response from the get-go. And that's how I'll continue to say it. Now, if he was 25 years old, 24 years old, I think my answer there would be a little different, but he's, he's 21. And, and so that's just, that's where I am, whether people, I don't know what people think of that, but that's just how I feel about it. Let me over confidently say that based on what JJ McCarthy has even done so far in

training camp, there is no pads. They practiced in shells today. So this is only him throwing to receivers on the second team and at most in shells, which increases the physicality a little bit and the pressure on the quarterback a little bit, but not a ton,

not until they put pads on, but I'll make this assessment anyway, because this is the overconfidence bit uh i don't think that he will have to be behind nick mullins as far as qb2 i think it will be jj mccarthy's qb2 and if darnold struggles at all they will probably go to him because i think he'll be ready in the middle of the season. Now on the week one, that's a lot to ask for JJ McCarthy, because then you're saying, all right, you got to be fully ready to go out there and not even see how it's done from a veteran to get ready to start. But the minute things start to go wrong for Sam Darnold, I believe on what we've seen, not only just from him out in the practice field, but also

from his approach to this. The fact that he worked out with Adam Thiel and he stayed here in the summer and he looks way better than he did during minicamp. That's not overconfident. That's a fact. He just looks way better from the way he's handling getting in on the huddle with the plays. And I think his work ethic will allow him to be close enough that when week six comes

around and they've only won two games, if that's the case, then JJ McCarthy can go in. Now, I'm not 100% truly confident in this because only Kevin O'Connell and Josh McCown really know where he stands. But if I'm being a little overconfident, I don't think I have to be crazy overconfident to actually make that statement. Let me ask you a question. Did you expect him to get as many reps as he's gotten so far?

Well, I mean, that's been, that was like something that I thought today. I was like, not even just today, even in the first few days. I mean,

look, I don't know what the split would even be, but I've just been, they've given him a lot of opportunity out there. Like they really have Nick Mullins. Hasn't gotten a ton in part because as Kevin O'Connell has said, like we believe, even if he doesn't get a lot of reps,

he's had enough time in the system. If he needs to play the game, then he'll be comfortable enough. But I, I mean, that's why I don't think it is a crazy, crazy overconfident to think that JJ could, let's say in week four,

something happens. Could JJ come in? I, I think so. Now the question to me, it's more a matter of learning the system and the intricacies of protections and some of the, the reads and the timing and all that, then it would be like his mechanics or arm strength or any of that. To me, it is, it is just system complexity and on, like, would Kevin O'Connell, let's say there's an injury in week four, God forbid, obviously don't want that for anybody,

would Kevin O'Connell be willing to pare down his system a little bit for JJ maybe at that time? Or would he rather be able to just run the full system with Nick Mullins? And maybe in week four, he wouldn't have to pare down the system because JJ's learned it all. I don't really know, but that aspect to me is where my mind goes in terms

of maybe why it could take a little more time. The past protection element of it is so enormous because that's how you get yourself destroyed as a quarterback, but they also have a veteran center in Garrett Bradbury. And if he can handle all the protections which i think he can't i mean he handled working with josh dobbs after only a few practices and then even the game against new orleans we kind of forget about that one because it wasn't a dramatic game jamis screams back throwing the ball scrolling so he's rolling left throwing right in the back of this like what is going on right now? We're so used to crazy games that you go like,

ah, it's pretty forgettable. And then you go back and look at it. No, actually, that was pretty wild. They had a chance at the end. If we pulled up the film of that game tonight and just watched it, A, it's a Friday night as we're recording this. And if I do that, then my parents probably

would be very mad that that's how I spent my Friday night. But anyway. They didn't raise you to watch tape on Friday night? What do you mean by that? I think they just would like me to do something social. My point being, if we did that tonight, we watched the second half of that game, you'd be like, holy cow, I can't remember this.

Anyway. Maybe I will. Maybe I will. You would. Was it A.T. Perry catching a touchdown over Byron Murphy? I don't know. I just remember at that point in the season, I felt like I was, like, loopy,

like I just got my wisdom teeth out with what was going on. I don't know. I still have mine. Really? Yeah, I do. Yeah, they just never needed to be taken out. That's where all the information from 1994 NFL is stored, in the wisdom teeth.

No, that's awesome. Let's move forward with this. As far as the overconfidence statements, you don't have to make it about the quarterback. Give me another overconfidence statement from the first four practices that we have seen about training camp. Yeah. Theo Jackson's the next John Lynch.

No, no, I, I, I mean, I'm, I'm partly kidding. That was the first thing.

He's been good. Yeah. He Theo Jackson. And I tweeted this in the spring and I was like, somebody in the staff might see this and just laugh out loud how ridiculous it is. But he is anticipating throws over the middle of the field. He's like tall but athletic. He's clearly the number four safety right now ahead of Jay Ward and Louis Scene.

By far not even remotely in the same stratosphere as, as Louis seen frankly. And so I, I'd say his play just continues to stand out to me. I mean, I don't know in terms of other crazy overconfident, like, I mean,

I've been really impressed with Jalen Naylor, like, and every time he's healthy, I've always thought he's looked pretty good. But I mean, today in that red zone period, it was like leaping grabs over the top extended hands outstretched like it just he looks really it's not just straight line speed I know his nickname speedy when he was drafted I think everyone talked

about the the track athlete the splits and all that but like just a receiver like ability as a receiver he stands out to me and I've been like I don't want to say blown away because I've been impressed before, but it's been impressive. So those two guys jump out to me immediately. I don't know if that's overconfident enough. I don't know if that's – I'm sticking with the bit. Well, what's the statement? Is the statement that Jalen Naylor is wide receiver three?

That would be the overconfident statement. I'd say the statement is Jalen Naylor is wide receiver three. That would be the overconfident statement. I'd say, I'd say the statement is Jalen Naylor's wide receiver three, unless something happens externally that could maybe change that overconfident statement. You're going to get so mad that I'm hedging all of this, but that's the journal. I don't like, you know. Folks, U.S. Cellular noticed that the way we use our phones has gotten ironic. We try to put our phones down for dinner, but the menu is on a QR code. That's ironic. We hit like on social media posts that we don't actually like.

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No, we all do this because we've seen things change so quickly in these camps where the pads come on and then some player that you didn't expect all of the sudden, whoa, what is Chad Beebe doing here on the team or something, right? This does happen all the time, but Jalen Naylor before pads has come out and made, if you will, a statement early on. Put that in the aggregation. I've got a statement. You ready? There you go.

I've been thinking about it. Okay. Will Reichardt. Oh, boy. Will be one of the seven best kickers in the NFL this year. This year. It's hard for rookies as kickers. How about that?

That's overconfident. Oh, yeah. There you go. I'm going to ride with my guy from Alabama. Perfect. If you're going to make me do it. No, real quick. A, I mean, we'll talk Riker in a second maybe if you want to

or we don't have to. I don't know. Kicker talk, how sexy that is for the podcast. How about this? Let me circle back on your overconfident jaylen naylor wide receiver three okay uh brandon powell proved himself last year as a role player on the team they want jaylen naylor to be that guy because the upside is just higher brandon powell is an underneath type of receiver who is reliable and they like him and can run after catch and it does a lot of things that they like but he's not a complete route tree he's not a dynamic deep threat that is going to scare anybody if he's

on the field you know kind of what he might be running there and i remember this from patrick peterson that he would study what types of routes these guys ran and understand that i could play someone a certain way if they have limitations and that's Brandon Powell and you would rather have Powell mix and match but Naylor has been flat out terrific so far I think he's looked exactly like the receiver that Kevin O'Connell keeps talking about it's really just comes down to whether he could stay on the field and he talked about how difficult that was to go through all those injuries. A lot of them are kind of random stuff. He gets back on the field, gets popped, gets a concussion, could happen to pretty much anybody.

It's like groin, hamstring, soft tissue. He said today, and I didn't really, he said since college. I mean, he's dealt with stuff, which, I mean, in that draft, the 2022 draft, there were a lot of guys with injury history. Right. Andrew Booth Jr. as well. That is concerning, that he has just not been able to stay healthy draft there were a lot of guys with injury history right uh andrew booth jr as well uh that is concerning that he has just not been able to stay healthy and admitted not even really through his

entire career so my confidence is low that he can stay on the field enough to be that guy but he's talented enough to be that guy which means that your statement is not overconfident now the kicker top seven kicker, a little much. There's a lot of good kickers in the league, but I can't say that I have, including when Daniel Carlson was here, ever been so wowed by a kicker in training camp. That is not an overconfidence statement.

That is already. And from minicamp to training camp, he kicked five for five today, 47 yards out. And you would have thought it was a 25 yard kick. I mean, he, he hit the roof on the thing behind it from 40 something yards away. The ball with the trajectory and how high it goes through the goalposts is the highest. I think I've ever seen from any kicker from 47. It's good from 65. I mean, it just like what? So, uh, I think he has looked like someone who very much has the potential to be a top notch kicker. This is through one section of kicks in training camp that we've seen, but every kick was right down the middle and it was bombed. And everything we've seen from him has been kind of eye-popping

with Will Reichert the way I would describe what today's five kicks was like it'd be like if you went to a golf range and you're like hey Scotty Scheffler come out and we're gonna have you hit to these five different greens you just went boom boom boom boom just stuck the ball and everything it was like it was like all right Will we're gonna do 32 all right 39 42 47 thanks for coming have a good day yeah good luck on the course it was it was it was absolutely ridiculous but it's It was like, all right, well, we're going to do 32. All right. 39, 42, 47. Thanks for coming. Have a good day. Yeah. Good luck on the course. It was, it was, it was absolutely ridiculous, but it's not like now the top seven thing

is that's an overconfidence. Yes, it is. Like we're, we, I cover the Vikings. I understand that. I'm, uh, the people here are like, this guy, he's in, this guy doesn't know. Um, but like, what I would say is this. Will Reichard, I mean, you wrote this, that he's been like a prodigy for his whole life. I mean, and there's a lot in his background that I think would lead you to believe that, like, he is able to overcome in some capacity.

So, fun to watch him today for the first time is what I would say. And that was the overconfidence statement that came to mind. Because today's practice was the red zone passing it was uh I don't know watching some defense some of the defensive cornerbacks how do some of those guys look uh editor's note not good and then it was watching the kicking so um that's what came to my mind how about this uh I am overconfident that the Vikings will sign a cornerback that all of you have heard of. That's too basic. Okay, it's too basic.

If you're going to get mad at me, then what are they? I am overconfident there will be a fistfight in the halls of TCO Performance Center between the coach and GM if they don't sign a corner. Who's good Kevin O'Connell was I would say campaigning today for a cornerback to be signed he uh danced around it a little bit saying well we obviously do need to sign someone else and hopefully it's someone with uh you know some experience or something like that and it was very much clear how about if I were to be overconfident I would have there's only one way to really

lean is that the cornerback group will be the downfall of this defense that we know Brian Flores is so good and worked through a lot of cornerback issues last year. So maybe that's your counterpoint. But if I were to say that, I don't necessarily believe it, but if I were to say the cornerback group alone will cause this defense to rank in the bottom 15 of the league, is that too much or is that just right? I think that's exactly right. I mean, with Shaq Griffin not practicing today,

I did see him walk in and he looked like he was walking fine. We'll see. But with Shaq Griffin not on the field today, the nickel group was uh, was a Caleb Evans outside Byron Murphy jr. In the slot. And then Andrew boot jr. On the other side.

Yeah. Look, they came into this season going back to the combine owners meetings. You were there, um, saying that, I mean, for lack of a better term, they want to play more man coverage. Now, what does it take to play man coverage? If you listen to any clinic that has ever been done, I think one time Nick Saban said, cover one's the best coverage if your guys are better than their guys because you can match up with them. And the reality is this group on the field right now,

now Shaq Griffin might help things a little bit, but even with Shaq Griffin, how many skill groups that they go against are going to be better than the Vikings cornerbacks group? I think most of them. And so the question would be, yeah, well, maybe Brian Flores can get creative. And there's only so much you can do.

And if you watch the arc of last season, in the middle when they were facing some pretty bad quarterbacks, and as they were kind of hitting their stride, it was max coverage, max pressure. And then by the Bengals game with Jake Browning, they started to get beat on a lot of those cover two, Tampa two crazy looks. And so I don't have confidence that if they have to try to get crazy again,

it's even possible that they can can duplicate it especially against a schedule that has quarterbacks that are that are a lot better than last year's schedules were and that's really the problem is that when they faced even just good wide receivers so that keenan allen guy is going to remember what he did and he's going to play this team they go up against Debo Samuel. Presumably Brandon Ayuk will still be a San Francisco 49er. How about Nico Collins and Stefan Diggs? Aminra St. Brown, Garrett Wilson, not in that order.

It all happens pretty fast. And how about that Packers collection of wide receivers that crushed them at the end of last season? Malik Neighbors is week one. That's one time Viking Malik neighbors. Uh, I can't help it in, uh, in week one, but even he, so far the reviews out of training camp for them is like, Whoa, this guy is an elite top pick for a reason. And the giants passing game doesn't terrify you, but it's not like you ever face, oh, well, that team doesn't have any wide receivers. And can you do it entirely? Now, Daniel Jones isn't good, but he's also not new here. It's not like, oh, I've never seen a blitz before.

It's all the quarterbacks that you face are all experienced. C.J. Stroud is an alien, so he already knows how to handle all these pressures and everything. It really comes down to they're going to have to create pressure without just using blitzing all the time and they can do that i think because what we've seen early returns when pads come on it matters more they have a deeper group of pass rushers and that's maybe the most you could say on the positive side of this like yeah you are in a lot of trouble from the cornerback position but Blake Cashman can do more than Jordan Hicks could do Grenard Van Ginkle Turner like these guys are are just more in number than Daniil Hunter so if you took

Daniil Hunter out it was just nothing there may be more pressure to be created but there's only so much you can do like you said when it comes to trying to hide cornerbacks because teams design their whole offenses to throw to Malik neighbors and to Debo Samuel and and so forth they're not going to go like oh well they blitzed so I guess we can't throw to Stefan Diggs or something well and I think it's right that you bring up um the pressure because those you're exactly right those those two aspects russian coverage tie together ed donathel taught me that in 2022 people here are not gonna be happy but that was my first year covering the team he talked about

russian coverage they couldn't do either anyway uh they could rush they couldn't come you're right you're right sorry sorry so darius smith and daniel hunter had an effect that they they actually i believe to combine for more sacks than um a lot of groups here in nationally have done but is that the point though is that the point though is that if even with exactly renard turner van ginkle if they create pressure you can only do it on 30 or 40 percent of the snaps exactly right and and so what i was going to get to is you mentioned the giants and so it's going to be so interesting we'll see if they when not if when they sign a cornerback what that group ultimately does end up looking like but the fact that you could go two years from the time you face the Giants in the playoffs and getting beat by Isaiah Hodgins and Richie

James and that game by Daniel Jones and then to have the cornerback group still be what it is two years from then. I mean, that's tough. Like just thinking about that, it kind of gives me, it doesn't make me feel great. To not be able to improve it. Now, there's been a lot of circumstances. There has. Obviously, a lot outside of the control. Some tragic situations, obviously, with Kyrie Jackson passing.

Just brutal. Like, Makai Blackman's ACL, just very random. So, it's, but, it's just, it's tough if, like, that's, if, I mean, your group is still the Duke-Shelley mixed with a Caleb Evans. And hopefully those guys improve, the Caleb Evans-Andrew Booth. But from what I've seen, specifically in Booth, Evans looks athletic. He looks in good shape. Uh, but Booth, um, every day has been kind of tough. It's the same.

It's, I don't think it's any different. Same with, uh, Lewis scene. He may just now Booth was better than Lewis scene last year and played 150 snaps. And I didn't think it was horrendous or anything. He could get in the game and you wouldn't feel like the game was over because he was in the game but all of these guys whether it's byron murphy who's had ups and downs in his career shack griffin's had ups and downs you don't have anyone where you go all right we're good there now let's figure out the rest

oh we can roll coverage the other way because so-and-so's got it. It's every guy you go, well, you hope that he has a good game, but it might be good or it might be bad. And I just mean from the time that, you know, Kweisi D'Affolmenta got here that he has tried to make a couple draft picks, as you mentioned, not being disrespectful about Kyrie Jackson and that whole thing. And I think Makai Blackman had a high ceiling and actually looked like someone who could become a very good quality corner for them.

And that's why it was such a big gut punch for them, because that was the guy I was looking to going, you know what? He could be above average. And then that anchors the whole unit. And you are not relying on a almost what he's got to be 28, 29 year old Shaq Griffin, who is not in the better part of his career. So that's it. That injury has a huge tumbling down effect. Would signing Stefan Gilmore change it for you? If you have Shaq Griffin healthy, and then you have a Stefan Gilmore type veteran who can play on the outside,

then I do think you can move Byron Murphy Jr. into the nickel, which is I think what they would like to do to be able to maximize everything. So if it has an exponential effect to add another outside corner, plus to add depth in the event that Shaq Griffin or Byron Murphy, who has also had a lot of injuries in recent years, goes down. I mean, to me, and I don't know if it's stefan gilmore maybe it is a younger guy with more upside but an outside cornerback who gives you a chance to play man coverage like it just to in my opinion no matter how much cap you want for the future

whatever receiver three whatever you whatever like you just have to do it if you want to give yourself give this team a chance, in my opinion. What else you got? Overconfident. I think it's your turn. You're going to put it back on me. Well, I started rolling with the cornerback. Overconfident.

I got one if you want me to throw another one at you. How about this? Aaron Jones becomes the most productive running back in the division. No. Jameer Gibbs. You're asking me to get overconfident yeah well okay all right jameer gibbs but he he split some time with david montgomery now i love jameer gibbs alabama guy electric player the vikings really liked him in the draft really good player um but i i i yeah if you're asking me to get overconfident aaron jones listened to the other day he kind of encapsulated

the vibe I felt all camp from this team which is like the nobody believes in us and he feels like nobody believes in him and I said like really you feel slighted like you've been I don't know you made the pro bowl like you I don't know but that that's what makes these guys what they are so um that's my overconfident no I like that that'd be that'd be that'd be kind of crazy they have not put too much on him these first few days it's been we've seen actually more kenny wong woo than i expected to see a little bit of duane mcbride i'm not sure there's a whole lot there but we've seen a little bit uh and ty chandler's been working in quite a bit but when aaron jones gets the ball in his

hands and he moves it's different it's different than everybody else when you talk to him it's different it's got to look like at least for you pre pre probably when I got here 2022 Dalvin like that's got to be the closest thing you've seen I don't know you you almost have to go back to 2020 first half of the season with Dalvin Cook it was the last time it was special because he got hurt early in 2021 where. Watt may have twisted his ankle at the end of a play against Arizona. And it never was quite the same. And he had these two or three first halves of seasons, 19 and 20 especially, that were really explosive. And, I mean, MVP level for six, eight weeks. And then it just faded because they would ride him so hard. And that's the thing with Aaron Jones is that if it's 150 to 175 carries for 800 something yards or however that works out math wise,

don't, don't do the math on that, but whatever it is, then that is really, really good based on what he's done in his recent history and the injuries that he's had. And if he averages four and a half yards to carry, it's really, really good. And if he catches 45 passes, that's really good. That's where my bar is for him in his career. There's also a small part of me that can't help but look at what we saw at the end of last year and go, it's still there. It's still there that this guy

could be an elite running back at times. And Adrian Peterson, when I first got here in 2016, was older in 2015 and led the nfl in rushing it's it's not impossible that someone who's special elite elite uh at their position can transcend that age limit that usually is stamped on running backs and probably is the reason that the packers moved on to get josh j Jacobs. They're going to lean on him a lot too. That's a better, that's a coach who understands running better. That is really what we're going to find out.

I was going to say. I think that's what we're going to find out because the last two years you could say Delvin was washed and that turned out to be very much true. And then last year, Madison couldn't handle RB1. You can make those excuses or run the offensive line or whatever. But if they can't run with Aaron Jones, then I don't know who they're going to be able to run with.

Well, what is the identity from a schematic standpoint? I think that's really where it has to probably start. Is it still major outside zone, mid-zone type that Kevin O'Connell talked? Or do they shift a little more towards what Los Angeles has done and Sean McVay has done in terms of more gap approach. Now they've been able to do that in Los Angeles because they have block, block able wide receivers and Cooper cup and Puka Nakua, and they've gotten bigger on the interior of the offensive line,

which has helped them do that. And then they've established that as their identity, but like that, that is my, it's, it's a, I guess, kind of like a coaching cliche or identity. But for me in the run game, like I'd haven't, maybe you have a different idea. Maybe it is the mid zone stuff, but like, I haven't felt like, man, they've really got an idea identity. It's like some duo, some mid zone, some inside zone. Does this work? Ah, we'll just do a screen to Johnny Mott. Like, I don't like it. That's, that's a little bit how it's felt. And like Wes Phillips, um, the office of coordinator talked on, on, on Friday, excuse me. And he said, like, I know you guys have talked about the run

game and we're talking about internally. So whether it is different personnel groupings, to be able to run the ball, whether it is formationally to me, there just has to be some kind of identity and commitment to it. And I will, I am looking forward to seeing whether that exists or whether it doesn't. One thing I want to give quick credit to the Vikings coaching staff for is not gaslighting. They, they, we didn't run the ball. Well, I mean, right. It's not, you guys think we didn't run the ball. Well, we dealt with a lot of that before, I think, especially maybe with the general manager previously. And they like, look, they could say, well,

we didn't have Justin who forced defenses into too high. And we had Josh Dobbs and Jaron Hall. And so the threat of the past, Nick Mullen, the threat of the past, but like they know, they know. Identifying the problem is the first step toward fixing it. Here is my trouble with what they know. Identifying the problem is the first step toward fixing it. Here is my trouble with what they have. They have a center who is a zone blocking expert. He was drafted for this.

Gary Kubiak and their offensive line then, they ran the wide zone, the old school, let's have everybody march that way and we can run bootlegs off it. Horizontal to go vertical. Exactly. And then tie the run to the pass and they did that for many many years in denver and houston and wherever gary kubiak or mike shanahan was that was their style they had it down to a t and they drafted a center for exactly that reason

and then kevin o'connell comes in after they had run that successfully for years they come in and say well now we're going to do something different. And now we have road grader, big giant men at the guard position who are not the most mobile guys in Ed Ingram and Blake Brandel, or even Ezra Cleveland was, but he had no kind of finesse to that. It was really just, he was a good athlete. And then they went to Reisner who is a triangle. Like he just has this body that is only good for pass blocking and not for run blocking and it's so much of a mix mash on the offensive line that I don't see how it fits with a particular identity for what you do well versus what these guys do well the tackles are unbelievable the tight ends are really good at run blocking and I think that might

be one of the answers is the bigger personnel. And then having only Addison and Jefferson on the field, maybe running more of, you know, 21 or 12 personnel or something, just bigger bodies on the field, as opposed to with Hawkinson, he's not a good run blocker and you don't have a good receiver who, you know, I don't want Jefferson run blocking and I don't definitely don't want Jordan Addison run blocking. What about the injury riddled jaylen nailer sticking his nose in the run game or brandon powell the tush push expert like i just do not need any of that so

the overconfident thing to say that he'll be the best running back in the nfc north ridiculous i think it's not totally ridiculous but it requires kevin Kevin O'Connell and this staff and this offensive line to prove it to us because I have a lot of questions. Well, that's how like there have been a lot of these first five days. Some reporters asked about offensive line, certain aspects of the offensive line. And I'm like, I'm not going to write about the offensive line or give any heap, any praise towards what might be possible until I see them go nose to nose against Zedarius Smith, Miles Garrett, Dalvin Tomlinson, and Jeremiah Wusu-Koromoa and see if they can move guys in Cleveland.

Like until that happens, I don't, I don't want to make any, I guess like I'm skeptical of that's just, that's just that's just how I am and they got to prove it that that's just the reality okay I'll throw out one more you do one more and then we'll uh we'll call it a fun podcast I think that we move on really quickly from day to day in training camp we don't hit the brakes and say hey hey hey hey hey this one thing they did let's go back on that from a couple days ago and go a little deeper on it Christian Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey,

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Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey I mean, Jordan Love, Tua, like if you've seen the meme where Scrooge McDuck is jumping in all the piles of money, that is exactly what every NFL player it seems, including Justin Jefferson, has had happen to them when their contract comes up and they're good lately.

And Christian Derrissaw just said, no, I'll take a totally team-friendly early contract that by next year will almost look a little bit ludicrous, I think, for how little they have to pay out and how really well-designed the salary cap hits are year by year. And that was a massive win for this team. I think when the numbers came out, I I really went this is what you're paying on the cap for an elite left tackle they're they're like a lead elite right like the top of the line top five could be all pro if Trent Williams and Andrew Thomas of course for the Giants is really

really good but I think I looked at I didn't it, but we're talking about the first at least three years where you're not looking at massive cap hits for Christian Derrissaw and the guaranteed, fully guaranteed money, only $43 million is not through the roof. And to do it while he's still under contract right now, just an enormous, enormous victory. When the numbers came out, they really blew my mind. Well, Koisi Dovomintsa said afteramitsa said after the team did Justin Jefferson's deal,

like the number one way you can acquire or pay players, the number one avenue is to extend your own. And I mean, I don't think anybody, I don't think he believes that you could do that often after three years. So yeah, I don't think it's the craziest thing to say. I will, and don't think anybody, I don't think he believes that you could do that often after three years. So, yeah, I don't think it's the craziest thing to say. I will, and I brought this up, we talked about this a little bit. Like, for Christian, there might have been some, you know what, like, I've had two, three concussions. He's navigated a couple injuries.

There have been like an ankle. Now, he's played, I think, his first three years, 39 games. So, it's not like he's missed a ton of time. But I mean, I don't know. It's hard for me to say for a guy like him, like, man, you got to wait another year. Like he wants to secure the bag when he wants. I mean, it is still a lot of money for him to secure. But in terms of market rates, I think things typically are just continuing to go up.

So not the craziest comment in the world. And I'm glad you mentioned it because I do think, I mean, again, it's another feather in the cap of Koisi in this front office in terms of the offseason they've had. And like I said this earlier last week, I was like, you know, if you go back to February and you say, you know, they're going to definitely move off Kirk Cousins. They're going to sign some solid players in the free agency,

especially on the defensive side. They're going to draft the future at quarter at quarterback. They're going to draft potential, another impact player. They're going to extend Justin Jefferson, extending Christian Darryl. So Darryl saw you'd be like, wow. And they're not, and they've got a lot of cash moving forward. You're like, man, pretty solid place to be. I think so as well. And they have to prove it of cast-based moving forward. You're like, man, pretty solid place to be. I think so as well.

And they have to prove it the rest of the way. And for the entire thing to come to fruition, part of it is having a good year this year. We can't leave that out and just go, well, you know, if they finish last in the division, who cares? I don't look at it that way because those aren't the expectations that they or the ownership set for themselves so we should be putting the bar at eight wins nine wins competitive entertaining season that puts them in the playoff mix in the last week of the season and if we're talking about taking those final two weeks and uh we can go to Vegas and hang out because we don't have to cover games during the playoffs or even worry about, I don't have to fly to Detroit because they're out of the playoff race. Well, then I don't think it was that successful of a season and things will have gone wrong along the

way. So we got to see that we've got to see this part of it. But as far as totally flipping the direction, they have done as well as I could have expected them to do to put this team in position to win in the future is that is that your final overconfident take um or do you have another one no I don't really have another one but if you want to force me to have it I can come up with something uh well if you want something GM related or a front office related no no I mean I don't I don't know I don't I don't have anything crazy in that regard. I mean, I agree with you, though. Like, they have to prove it this year.

And then it's so interesting. Like, the draft is such a – it's almost like Brad Holmes and what the Lions have done in the draft. They've had so much success. And my question – and I wrote a whole story about this last – throughout the draft, and it was a really fun story to do. My question is, is Brad Holmes the luckiest guy who walked in the casino? Or is he really good at this thing that is really hard to be really good at? And so, again, there's no overconfident take here.

But I think I go back and forth. And I have trouble juxtaposing the idea that I know how random the draft is. But I also know how important it is. So I don't want to – I have a hard time just crushing Kweisi for it, but I also have a hard time looking at the fact that Jordan Addison is the obvious on-the-field success thus far, and knowing that – I mean, for them to continue to succeed, you've got to hit on the Amon Ross A. Browns, the Panay Sewells, the Sam Laportas.

I mean, rookie Contra, Aiden Hutchinson. Guys, now it helps when you're picking that high. But, yeah, to me, like moving forward, you just want to see some more draft hits, as many as you can. Now, the problem is they gave up a lot of picks for Dallas Turner. So those guys, I mean, really more than anything, JJ and Dallas, that's got to be, those guys have got to be good. That's what I was going to say.

The secret probably is for Brad Holmes is having a lot of picks because Kwesi Daflamenta hasn't had many. There hasn't been opportunities to get lucky as much as there has been for someone like Brad Holmes. And that's what his aim was in 2022, which was to move back, get more bites at the apple. And high-end bites at the apple.

Right, second round, first round, get 32nd, and then two in the second round. Okay, well, if two out of those three players become starters and good starters, then we're feeling really great. And to the credit, not that it's been good, but one of the players did become a full-time starter at guard so they did draft a player who has been a huge contributor at a starting position

and they have a running back that could be good they have a Caleb Evans who was good for about two-thirds of a season last year it's not in any way a good draft. It's still progressing, I think, for us to get that view on it. Usually it takes a few years out to be able to say, were they good at drafting or not? But I think that's the answer to your question, is just more shots at it and more high-end shots at it. You sure don't have trouble drafting Aiden Hutchinson number two overall when the Jaguars lose their minds and draft Trayvon Walker.

But I think if you were going for the big, for the big overconfident take, the one that's like you're at the plate and you're going to swing heavy would be by next year, from what you've seen through four practices, by the end of next year, we will be talking about traveling somewhere in the divisional round with jj mccarthy facing off with caleb williams going to chicago in the divisional round of the playoffs with a chance to go to the nfc championship game because they have built the foundation and now all they need to do is hit on a couple draft picks and spend the money and they've got everything set up to be in that divisional round next year

with one step away from the NFC title game. How's that? Now, that's overconfident. It's overconfident. But I don't think it's insane. Do I sound like a crazy person? No, I mean, I think it's fairly reasonable to think. I mean, the qualms that I have, I mean, A, J.J. McCarthy,

it's been four practices. He's looked good. I wouldn't be shocked with the way they're taking the developmental approach that we started the conversation with. Like if he does succeed, if he's playing well next year, my qualms would be with the depth of the team, the amount of shots they have in the draft, the ability from the people at the very top of the organization

to just remain okay with the vision, the plan, like all that stuff is, I believe they want to take that strategy. But if you lose and the fans get disgruntled, it's hard to stick with that. So, yeah, I don't think that's the craziest. Now, if you're guaranteeing it, then yeah. But I think that's a fine overcompetent take through four practices. All right. This was training for you to learn how to really form these opinions on your new podcast,

The Alec Lewis Show, where you talk lots of Minnesota Vikings football. And we're going to be partnering in some ways on this show that you're doing, which is really cool. You've got a great interview with Robert Mays from The Athletic as your first big interview episode so big go to an explosive interview where you got all the overconfident takes in the world you're gonna have to work on the self-promotion there's a lot there's a lot there was internet connection there's a lot that we're gonna have to to battle through with you but we'll get you there uh and in the podcasting universe, but the Alec Lewis show on that is with A L E C. Yeah. That is important. My parents did that. I didn't choose that one. Yep. Yep. I imagine you have to say that to every person that you call if you, you know,

whatever the A L E C. Right. Yeah. It's like people, yeah, it's, it is what it is. It is what it is. Yeah. I mean, it's not progress or process. Either one of those process for people to learn my name is the problem. Yeah, that's right. Once they get it, that's the progress. Right. It's but that's the results. I don't know what they're looking for. Thank you, though. This was a good time. It was. It was. So go over there on his YouTube channel and Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. Apple, Spotify, Twitter.

If you want to listen to very objective thought. If you want to come to his apartment, stand outside the door and hear him yelling. Screaming. Imagine the neighbors are not going to be super thrilled. Yeah, there was a girl with a dog that came in where I was recording. I was like, I'm so sorry. She's like, you sounded like you had an okay voice. I was like, all right, an okay voice.

Yeah, that's a great compliment. All right, I'll text you later tonight. You watch the Saints 2023 Josh Dobbs game. Oh, I'll watch it back. But I was just thinking about how that was the meekest compliment anyone's ever given. Like, yeah, it sounded okay. Yeah, man, I'm from the Minnesota Knights. You have an okay voice.

That's why all of you should listen to the Alec Lewis Show. He's got an okay voice, according to Dog Walker. I don't do sales. I just do – only when we have a dollar a month. There's a lot to work on here. Thanks, everybody, for watching slash listening, and we will talk to you very soon. Football.