Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Packers analyst answers: Is Jaire Alexander worth it for the Vikings? Is Jordan Love mid?

Episode Date: June 16, 2025

Matthew Coller is joined by Grant Bilse of the Wisco Sports Show to discuss if it's worth it for the Vikings to go after Jaire Alexander. Plus, whether or not Jordan Love is mid, and other Packers questions.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of purple insider, Matthew collar here and returning to the show is Grant Bills, a talk host for the Wisco sports show, uh, for the zone in Madison, Wisconsin, to talk a little Vikings and green Bay Packers. And, you know, I gotta say, Grant, uh, we've been sitting over here in Minnesota looking at the green Bay Packers because And you know, I gotta say, Grant, we've been sitting over here in Minnesota looking at the Green Bay Packers because it's like a neighbor thing, you know, where you got the binoculars out. You're always seeing what's what kind of card does my neighbor have? When is he home? When is he not? What's he doing over there? And the answer is not a whole heck of a lot.

What's up with that? This seems like it has been about the quietest offseason that the Green Bay Packers have had in a really long time. Well, it's funny because a lot of Packers fans are complaining that they didn't do anything this off season. And maybe that's because we had hopes high and like, well, could they make a big push for someone like Hendrickson or Miles Garrett when it's Super Bowl week? Like that was a story. They did give a bunch of money to banks and a good amount of money to Hobbs the corner. So it's not like they completely sat out free agency. I just don't think it was the players or the positions that any Packers fans wanted. So like so many are choosing to ignore it and just say that the Packers

didn't do anything. And I think a lot of people think it's a quite obstinacy for that reason. The Jaiyer thing finally came to a head. So that was the thing that was going on. But we never got any information out of it. We just we were in a holding pattern for what felt like, you know, four or four and a half months going back to the combine. So I would say a relatively quiet off season. Yeah. Especially the last couple of years with Aaron Rogers, we're just accustomed to a lot more noise and a lot more back and forth for sure. Well, let's talk about Jair Alexander for a moment. Then I got a bigger discussion for

you, Grant. Uh, Should the Minnesota Vikings be interested in Jair Alexander? Because my take on this is, I don't know, man. I mean, the Vikings have a secondary that is a lot of bets Brian Flores is making, but not a lot of proof that they're going to work. Like players like Mackay Blackman and Isaiah Rogers that are small sample size success players,

but not guys who have played five, six years in the league and made it to pro bowls and things like that. But I look at the last couple of years of Jair Alexander and you go, when has he really been on the football field? And the vibe has always been weird. I was trying to Google and get like all like examples of where he hasn't fit in the locker room or when there's been issues. The whole coin flip thing was strange, but I couldn't get really like a dossier together of problems.

It just seems like it's been a consistent type of uncomfortable thing with Jair Alexander for a few years now. He is described by some mostly Packers fans. I don't know that you'll hear this from a lot of media, although even people who cover the team will allude to it, that he's a little bit of a personality or malcontent. I think personally, just based on what I've heard, and what we've seen over the last couple of years, I think that's a little bit overblown. I think if he's healthy and available, I don't think any of that stuff matters. The coin

flip thing was weird. But players can have isolated incidents like Romeo Dobbs had one last year. So I guess another example, just from last year's for my own team, like I don't think Romeo Dobbs is one last year. So I guess another example just from last year's for my own team. Like I don't think Romeo Dobbs is a head case. I think maybe he's a little odd, but I think Jair is odd. I think a lot of NFL teams should sniff around Jair. I don't know what he and his camp are looking for. I don't know what they think is out there for them.

Because you're asking when he plays, about 50% of the time, the last three years, that's about when he plays. Which when% of the time, the last three years, that's about when he plays, which when you make that much money is untenable. And the Packers general manager, Brian Gudekin, said that very clearly last week at mandatory mini camp. Like, that's just a lot of money for a guy who doesn't play. And we couldn't do it. And when asked, well, why didn't you just see?

Why didn't you bring him back and see if he could stay healthy? To which the Packers GM responded, well, that's what we've been doing and it hasn't been working. It was a. It was a pretty direct answer, but he's 28 and when he plays, he's excellent and I think Vikings fans. You might roll your eyes a little bit

because Packers fans or people would love to say well he shuts down Justin Jeffers he doesn't he doesn't do that stuff but he's a he's a very good corner and the results would tell you the the defense wide numbers would tell you that the unit the defensive unit is much better when he's out there. So he's still very good and he's young.

He's just dealt with different injuries. It's not like David Bakhtiari where it's been the same knee holding him out. It was a shoulder and then last year it was a PCL and it's been all sorts of different things. So the Packers, I think made him some sort of a reasonable offer because they didn't want to cut him. So Jair's camp must feel like there's more money elsewhere.

So maybe he's looking for an amount of money that's going to turn off some teams. I would imagine that's the case. But I don't think the Vikings need another dart throw. To your point, I think they've made a couple already. I think the fit probably would be better elsewhere. So you could look at it the other way around as in, well, they've already had the dart throws for veteran players like Jonathan Allen, Javon Hargrave and so forth,

and handed out a lot of money for them. What's one more guy to the party who used to be one of the best players in the league, but might have something left there. There is probably an argument that 50% of snaps could be really valuable on a team that does not have the most proven depth at cornerback. So if you had Jair and Byron Murphy Jr. as your

starters for 50% of the snaps next season, well considering the receivers and the quarterbacks and the offenses that they're facing, as you know, some really difficult opponents for everyone in this division, it might be good to have 50% of the snaps. But the question is if that's all you can really hope for and project, A, does he really want to fight to be on the field? That's one thing I think about all the time

with these players. A lot of guys in the league, they get to a certain part in their career and then they're paid and so forth, or have a contract coming up and they go, I'm only playing if I'm really good to play. And that is not an easy situation to deal with. And I'm not saying he's not tough or anything like that. I don't know that that situation,

I just know that that happens. Sometimes with veteran players, they get tired of playing injured all the time and trying to fight through it. And they also know their performance might not be as good as if they were at a hundred percent, and they don't wanna have reps on tape that aren't good if there's a contract situation in the mix. So that would be concerning. And the price tag,

though, if he's looking for more than the Packers were going to give him, I don't know, man. I just have a tough time seeing that because I was thinking, okay, if it's like one year, $9 million in the ballpark of what the Vikings paid for Stefan Gilmore last year. Okay. Like that would make a lot of sense to me. I don't know who in the NFL is saying, you know what, three years, 18 mil a year, like let's go all in on Jai year because like we're talking about,

if he had been on the field for 700 to 900 snaps and put up the numbers he put up, oh yeah, he wouldn't be gone. So there's a reason that he's gone. At the same time, it's also a, it's a motif throughout Vikings and Packers history that every angry Packer has to stop by Minnesota for at least a year to just see if the grass is greener.

I think it only makes sense in a very narrow situation for the Vikings. He was set to make 17 base salary with some workout bonuses and we could, you know, squint and read all the fine. He was about he was gonna make about 17 million dollars. And I thought because the Packers wanted so much to avoid this, they did not want to lose him for nothing. I thought the Packers would approach Jair about like a 50% pay cut. You know what I mean?

You can make 9 million, which is a massive pay cut that a player almost would never have any reason to take except I assumed that Jaiers camp and I assume this happened, went around the league and did some due diligence the last couple months as Jaiers was actively being shopped and asked, well, what kind of would the value be? And if he heard around the league that his value is 3 million plus incentives, well, all of a sudden a 50% pay cut seems pretty reasonable. So I thought that maybe there was some middle ground that made sense for both sides. And it just turned out that it wasn't the case. And reporting from some of the stalwarts of the Packers beat like Tom Silverstein, who's been there forever, basically said, Jair was never taking a pay cut. So I think even with a reasonable offer from Green Bay, he was always going to go elsewhere and look, which I'm sure the Packers were fine with. On the thing of playing through injuries, I think there was real frustration there last year.

The Packers wanted him to play, Jair didn't. And that's not uncommon. I'm sure that's very common between team and between player. I also think the performance thing that you hinted at, Jair doesn't want to go out there if he's not going to be able to play well, which is understandable. And I think I can kind of further connect those dots because Jair was in the midst of like five or six weeks.

It had gone past the point where an IR stint would have made sense. And there was just a lot of questions. And then all of a sudden we get this report through match nine been through Jair's agency that he had a partially torn PCL, almost as if his camp came out and said, Hey guys, would everyone calm down?

Like he's legit injured. We just like to let you know, or at least that's kind of how I read it. So I think there was a real disagreement between team and player. Although I don't, I don't know that that reflects badly on either side. I think that's probably pretty common and frustrating between two sides. Yeah, I think that's true. And even, you know, with, with the Packers versus the Vikings and the

medical staff and things like that, the Vikings always get high grades for the medical staff and Aaron Jones played 17 games last year for the Vikings. And he not so subtly said that, boy, this was the first time that a team ever really put together a plan for me. And you're like, well, you've only other played for one team. So I guess we know what you're talking about. And I do wonder about that because trust between the medical staff and the players is a big deal and if they feel like they're not given the right plan to deal with their injuries then oftentimes they're going elsewhere there's conflict things like that the Vikings have done an excellent job in not having that issue. I also think from a Vikings perspective if you're trying to talk

yourself into Jair the way you do it is that he would be coming here probably on a one year deal and very, very motivated to shove it up the Packers rear ends, which I think Aaron Jones was last year, very motivated to show the Packers you guys made a mistake. And that might result in him pushing through a few more injuries, knowing that if he's one year, nine million here,

that on the other side of that could be what Sharvarius Ward got or more, could be what Bayer Murphy got or more, because Sharvarius Ward was 29 or 28, and the same with DJ Reed. So there is like this small argument that you can make. I'm not super in favor of it, but you could make this like highly motivated,

better medical staff, probably willing to play on like highly motivated, better mode medical staff, probably willing to play on a contract year. And then you just say, it's, it's actually Zadari Smith to you just say, Hey, like this is going to be it. This isn't going to be a five year thing. We're not going to marry you, but we can rent you in a year where we're trying to really win. And he's got to, I would assume, take some sort of situation like that. I don't think even the team most interested in him is going to offer him three years or anything like that. This is going to be one year, he'll probably go somewhere where he gets a nice base salary, but then with a chance to make money and incentives, too, hoping that on the other side of this year, you know, he can get that one final nice deal. You never want to say final, but like if he can get another three year deal, it's probably the last one that he's going to get. He's still only 28. It's not like he's Trey Hendrickson on the other side of 30 or Bakhtiari when he had his struggles with his knee.

Like he should be in his prime. He's just, he's missed much time. On the medical staff, I can't say much to that other than the Packers blew out their entire strength and conditioning staff after last season. And it's not something that's reported on. It's not like there's no all 22 for the medical staff. Like no one's breaking that down. I will say Aaron Jones in his time in Green Bay, like the biggest complaint that Packers fans had is he wasn't used enough. So I think his workload to a degree with Green Bay was always pretty well managed. I don't know about, you know, the recovery plan or all of that stuff. But the Vikings get incredibly high grades on all that stuff. So that doesn't surprise me at all.

That's a place that players really like to be. Okay. Before we move on to a, another thing I want to talk about with you, uh, who is your favorite angry packer to go play for the Vikings other than farve, cause obviously that's the all time. That's number one. But does it seem to you like it never goes the other way around? Maybe that's because

in Minnesota, everyone talks so much trash about Wisconsin. So you don't want to live there. Who wants to go there? Our state is superior that maybe players are just saying, I don't know. I don't want to go play for the Packers. There's not as many examples of the Vikings being angry, leaving their team and going to green Bay as there is green Bay leaving and going to Minnesota. I don't know why that is. The biggest, I wouldn't even call it spite, the biggest rival player that ever came in division that I can remember, at least recently off the top of my head, was Julius Peppers in 2014 when he came from the Bears to the Packers.

And he was awesome for the time that he was there. And then he was actually okay when he left. And I think he went back to Carolina. Like the Packers got rid of him when he still had a little bit left as they typically do. My favorite angry Viking. I mean, there's so many, I'd have to probably sit down and compile a list. An underrated one would be Ryan Longwell though. How long, how good of a career, he had a great career with the Vikings. That wasn't just like a one or two year thing.

Like he was a legitimate, very good franchise kicker for them for a long time. So that would probably be my favorite one just because it's a kicker. It's kind of fun. It's kind of funny. He was so good that that oh nine, you know, the too many men in the huddle and so forth. I think everybody believed that if he had to kick maybe it was a 52 yard field goal or so that he would have made it. He had had such a good career as a Viking. I like that the most random one to me was Dayton Jones, who was a odd personality and signed with the Vikings,

I think out of spite, but then didn't make the roster. And we talked so much about it. Oh, he's going to be this interior rusher. He's got the, he did this and that for the Packers and then just the, nothing ever happened for Dayton Jones. But here's what I wanted to ask you though, Grant, I wanted it for the, as long as I have been here, the people who have talked about the Packers like yourself, the Packers fans, there's always been this little shade and look, it's deserved from the history of arrogance about being the Packers.

We've got Lambeau, we've got the great quarterbacks, we've got the Super Bowl rings, all those things owned by the fans. You know what? If people didn't know, that is the case. Here's what I'm sensing. Here's what I'm sensing. This is the first time I'm sensing it. I'm sensing a little fear. I'm sensing a little cracks in the foundation of Packer arrogance.

And I do mean it as somewhat of a compliment because the history is there. There's no question about it. They've got the rings, but I have felt from following some Packer media, Packer fans this year, that there is a little bit of, wait, could we actually get stuck in the middle? This has never been possible before because even Jordan Love in his first year

was so good in the second half of the season. You're one drive away from making the NFC championship play. Oh, we're just back and we're just going to keep doing it forever. But last year getting blasted in the playoffs, Jordan Love not really building on his first year. And now you look around at the roster and you go, it's okay. It's a pretty good roster. It's a good coach. But is anyone picking the Packers to win the Super Bowl? When would that have ever happened before where nobody was picking the Packers to win the Super Bowl?

I'm feeling it. I'm feeling a little nervousness that you're gonna have to be a regular football team for a while. Not even Pete Prisco is picking us to win the Super Bowl maybe this year. He seemed to be always the guy we had in our back pocket, whether he's been at CBS or wherever.

So a couple of things on this. First, I think for years, for basically my entire lifetime, the Vikings have done plenty of good things and drafted lots of good players. And the Packers have made plenty of mistakes. But we had this old trump card in our back pocket of, well, we still have Aaron Rodgers or Brett Favre, and the Vikings don't have that guy. So we were almost insulated and protected

from these rivals around the division. Even when one of them would hire a good coach or do something good or have a nice little run, we had this trump card that we could pull out. And even if it wasn't in that particular year, we could bank on the next year, things would return to this natural order. And we had the guy, nobody else did. And now we're at a point in the North where like, I don't know who the guy is. I think Goff when he's good is very good. I think the same could be true of Jones, Jones Love, or Caleb Williams, or we'll see with McCarthy. And that's another thing Packers fans can hold on to for the next couple months be like, well, JJ McCarthy hasn't played yet, which is true. But if he plays and is good, then that's another problem. I bring up on my show all the time, and I'm from closer to Minnesota than I am to Green Bay. I grew up about an hour east of the Twin Cities. So that's where a lot of my family and that's where that's the big city we always went to

and we needed to run errands and stuff. And I bring up on my show all the time, like we can make fun of the Vikings for not having any Super Bowls and hopefully we'll be able to keep doing that. But like that's an organization that's really well run and they invest and they care and they're smart. So it's not like they're the bears who can't get out of their own way or some of these other teams that are bad

because they're stupid or cheap or both. Like they just haven't had it come together. And it's almost a little fluky. It's almost bad luck when you look at how many games they've won and how many good coaches and players and everything they've had. So I sing the praises of the Vikings. I think that's an outfit. And you mentioned that players love playing there. That's another part of it, too. Like they get really high marks from all the players who are drafted there who ultimately sign there.

So is there concern that Jordan Love is just not going to be good enough to keep you in that seat be good enough to keep you in that seat where you can say we're always the team to be going into every single season because okay, you've taken a step back from that for a couple of years and really the last time that the Packers were the best team in the NFC North was 2021. And since then it was sort of the transition out of Rogers. But when love has that great second half of the year, I think everybody and you know, people in Minnesota didn't really want to think it, but they were all thinking it in the back of

their head. Like really? Did they just do it again? Uh, and last year was maybe a dose of reality because not only do you have a quarterback that is flawed, but you also have the issue of he is a paid flawed quarterback. And this sounds a lot like what the Minnesota Vikings were for years with Kirk Cousins. And if I'm doing a quarterback ranking, which I've just despised quarterback rankings, but if I had to, I mean, I'm putting Jordan Love like 12th, 13th, 14th, I think that's probably fair

based on what we've seen. And I know that he started out last year with the injury and the receiver thing, that whole, oh, there's so many good receivers, who needs a number one? Good luck with that. But at least they admitted that was nonsense and tried to go draft a number one.

So there were mitigating factors for last year. The other thing though is that everybody in the division crushed the AFC South, They had 14 and 15 wins, and the Packers were still just kind of a good, decent team. I think that there should be very legitimate worry in Green Bay that this is a team that's going to get stuck in the middle where the quarterback can never quite get you over the hump,

but you can never quite build the roster that's good enough to make this a behemoth. Well, and the rest of the roster right now, I think is reflective of that reality, too. I think they have a lot of good players. I don't know if they have any great ones. The silver lining for Packers fans at this moment in time is a lot of those guys are your three-ish. I'd say that's the average. So there's still guys on this roster who are growing and you could think could get better. You don't know if that's the case they have a lot of good players they've done a lot of good things I don't know about great and

it's funny that you use Kirk Cousins as a reference point because they're so different stylistically but I think of them relative to their peers and and in the ecosystem of the NFL I think of them very similarly through two years the sample that we've gotten from Jordan Love so far I feel very confident that he's proven that he can be a top half of the NFL quarterback. I don't know if he's any better than that. And a lot of Packers fans would say, well, we saw it the first half of his first year. That was a really nice run. We've seen lots of quarterbacks have really nice runs. I don't think Jordan Love is going to stink. And I don't think he's ever going to flunk out and bust out. I think he is very Kirk cousins ish in that he's top half of the league, but he might not be any better. And if the Packers can't draft elite elite players are signed a legally players around him then they're going to be

like you said stuck in the middle, especially in a division that's really really tough like they were if they were in the AFC South might be different but this division is loaded with really smart really well-run teams and JJ McCarthy could, you know, or Caleb Williams could end up being a next level quarterback in their own volition. So that's something you have to consider too. Well, and I was thinking about what I was saying about Jordan love last year and how

he is super talented when it comes to the arm. And Matt LaFleur seems to really understand what makes him tick and what he needs. They build everything off the run game, which actually also sounds like Kirk Cousins. It's usually a pretty clear sign that your head coach or your offensive coordinator doesn't fully believe in your quarterback if everything starts with,

well, we have to build it off of the run. Okay, well, that's great, but that's a really hard thing to do unless you have an unbelievable run game like Philadelphia or the Baltimore Ravens or San Francisco when they were great. And even San Francisco with his amazing and stacked and great at running and MVP caliber running back,

they still had some limitations that got them in the end at the quarterback position and coming up short in the Superbowl, even as great as all of that was. And with Jordan Love, I would you've seen every game. So I want a little more detail to understand this better. Like, what is the missing piece? I think with Kirk Cousins, we knew exactly what it was, which is he was a fourth

round draft pick for a reason he did not have freakish arm talent. He didn't have athleticism. He could never scramble for a first down when it was third and long. But what is it that holds back Jordan Love from being because I don't think it's size and I don't think it's arm strength that holds him back from being in that Josh Allen type of conversation or now in the NFC, Jaden Daniels type conversation, like what is it?

So we could pick it a couple different things. I've been loosely describing this on my show as like, so the middle 80% of his throw profile. So if you were to like dissect all the throws, there's going to be really easy throws that are dump offs and screen passes and in the flat. And then there's going to be the final 10% where he'll make throws.

He had a touchdown over the middle of the Tucker Craft last year. There's just unbelievable throw or a deep bomb to Jaden Reed in between three defenders. Like, he's got a lot of those throws and he make the easy ones. It's the slant on second and sixth when you just need to move the sticks and you need to hit a guy right there. Not a little low, not a little high, like right there. And I think this is a problem for a lot of newer age quarterbacks who've gotten by off arm talent and maybe simplified college systems where you need these easy throws to be easy and replicable and sustainable every single time because then you're turning second and sixes into first and tens and you're not needing to fight for your life on third and six over and over and over again. So I think those very simple, very mechanical throws have been an issue. I think he's also a little hesitant to run. And for a young quarterback, like I think he needs to tuck it and go a little bit more often. Now last year he was hurt,

so last year's probably not a good reflection if you look at his numbers. But even going back to college, he's really hesitant to tuck it and go when there's an opportunity. And certainly he's a pocket passing quarterback with a great arm. But I think in this league, if you're a pure statue at quarterback, most of the time that really limits you and I think you can look all across the league at guys and I think that's born out pretty clearly. So those are the two things that that probably come to mind. I'm actually not that obsessed with the interceptions. He had a couple bad ones last

year. And I do think the injury impacted him a little bit there. Interceptions are going to happen. I don't know that that keeps me up at night as much as those other two things. The running thing is something I thought about a lot with Jordan Love. I mean, you're right that last year he was injured multiple times and that's going to reduce it. But even in his first year, it wasn't something that he seemed very comfortable in doing. And I was watching the playoffs this year, thinking about this, that if you're not going to scramble and escape and make plays, you're not going to make your way all the way to the Super Bowl, or it's very unlikely.

I mean, even when you're talking about Brock Purdy, even Purdy would do that a lot, where when things broke down, he would scramble for a first down or make a playoff schedule. And with JJ McCarthy, I remember talking about this after some playoff game where it's like, JJ McCarthy can't just be

a pocket quarterback who occasionally decides to roll out and take off for one first down. He has to use every bit of the leg talent that he has to get first downs because you're not going to win on the offensive line all the time. Even with an improved offensive line, there's going to be Jalen Carter

or some other group of beasts who just takes you to task. And we saw a lot of the pocket quarterbacks go down that way. Sam Darnold, who was a scrambler enough, but not really a runner. Justin Herbert, who kind of refuses to run in the same way that Jordan Love does. CJ Stroud is not a prolific runner. And these guys all just kind of got taken out

and picked off by really great defensive lines. I think the same thing for Jordan Love. And I don't know if it's something that you can just teach somebody to do. I feel like it's either in there or not. And the other thing with Jordan Love is that, Jameis Winston is the extreme example of a guy who just has some synapse in his brain misfire

and does the craziest thing. Weirdly, Nick Mullins was like this, where something would happen and he would just be like, ha, I'm just going to do this thing that makes no sense in any world. I think Jordan Love has too many of those plays where you just go, okay, like you just threw it 43 yards down the field, like a balloon into triple coverage and got picked off. What did you see there? Why did you do that? It's almost like he needs to do it if he hasn't done it in a while, like, oh, I just haven't thrown a bomb. So I am going to do this. I think that hurts him

too with his consistency. And it's tough because as a football fan, like I, I understand, and realize there is a need to create big plays, like Eric Eager, who was in the space for a long time and now works in league always to like use the analogy of crossing the street like you can't cross the street through traffic over and over and over again, four or five yards at a pop for an entire drive because things are going to happen there's going to

be a holding there's going to be something that sets you off. So I, I'm well aware you need to get big plays just like in baseball every once in a while you need a home run you can't just be a contact team. But I also like there are a couple great examples from the first Packers Vikings game last year. And it was the one that Jordan Love just came back from injury. Yes, that's the caveat, of course, and Packers fans will be the first to tell you about that. But there were a couple of those

stories. It's like, what did what exactly did you see there? And then Christian Watson is getting obliterated in the meantime, so much to end this has been a problem so much to the point where the number one complainer one of the biggest complaints that Packers fans had about Christian Watson is he doesn't come back to break up interceptions enough. And if I was Christian Watson, I'd be like, I'd hear that. I think that's my job. Like that's at the top of my job description as a player in this offense is I need to be aggressive coming back to

break up balls that could be intercepted. So yeah, the decision making is a problem. If you take out, there were two throws last year and I just did a Packers podcast the other day where I reference this. There's two throws. There was one in the back of the end zone against the Rams that went for a pick six. And you're like that in no world can that ever happen. And then going into halftime against the Lions at home in their first matchup, where he just flipped it up and it goes for a pick six. Like if you can take out the stupidest of stupid throws, I can live with an interception every once in a while trying to be aggressive. I can't just do the stupid to be stupid throws. And I kind of think he'll cut those out. But ultimately, to your point, it still might not be enough. You know, if he doesn't scramble and do the other things, right, you still might be coming up behind on the ledger that

you need to be at it as an NFL quarterback. I think it's the hardest thing of being a quarterback is deciding when you're going to do that stuff. Because if you play too conservative, you end up like Christian Ponder or Kirk Cousins checking down on fourth down in a playoff game. But if you are too aggressive and you're just going for it all the time, then you end up on that Jameis scale where at some point, yeah, the hits that you have are going to not outweigh the misses and sometimes for love, it's not even just the interceptions, but you brought up the game last year. There were a couple of times where they really

could have come back and won that football game and a throw just went somewhere that made no sense and it got broke up or it didn't work out and it wasn't picked but it was like hey man that was a third down and long and you had the read somewhere else and you just didn't see it and I know that your friend Bill Michaels uh drew the ire of some folks in Green Bay when he said he didn't think that love went through his progressions all that well yeah I I would tend to agree with him I I think that it's kind of a there's a reason why Matt LaFleur

threw a lot of screens. He was one of the best screen teams in the league two years ago. And then he had to hit on a bunch of bombs to have the second half of the season that he had, because it doesn't seem like, if you're going to be that playmaking quarterback, as you mentioned, you have to scramble.

So it feels like all the puzzle pieces have not quite locked in for him, but is the answer more wide receivers? Is the answer Matthew Golden? Is the answer the other guy that they drafted? It certainly wasn't going out and getting one of the top notch wide receivers in free agency or in a trade. So now it's drafting and kind of hoping that somebody clicks here, right? Yeah, and I, I know I'm a Packers fan, so I'm a little biased.

I still really like Jayden Reed and I still like Don Tavian Wicks a lot. Like I think the traits and the pieces with those two guys are still very, very good. But this was not an off season. And I said this from like last December on my show. It's like, this is not an off season where you can say, we're just going to let the young guys continue to grow. Two years ago, after they went on that run in the playoffs and they came within a couple of plays away from beating the Niners to go to the conference championship game against the Lions, that was an off season where you could say, we're just going to sit back and continue to let these guys percolate. That was a fine strategy two off seasons ago. This off season, it was not, which is why they went and drafted Matthew Golden. And then they took Savion Williams because we need to draft at least one guy who has serious problems catching the ball. Like Matthew Golden has pretty good hands. We need to counteract that with someone who can't catch,

which is one of the Packers favorite things to do. So that adds some real urgency and some pressure in that room. I still really like Reid and Wicks. And I think Dobbs is a nice player who had a season last year that was marred by a week where he got really frustrated and was ultimately suspended for not showing and not calling to practice. Then he had two concussions to boot and then Watson got hurt. So it just became a little bit of a mess to use your puzzle piece analogy. I still think there are a lot of very good pieces and if they fit together, I think this can be a great team at this moment in time. There aren't a lot of great pieces and that remains my concern with this team.

It's like, so you hit a lot of doubles and singles in the draft. I'm still not sure that there are any triples or any home runs. And there's a lot of those guys on the Lions and the Vikings. And I still think the Bears, although I'm not going to assume competence on their part until I actually see it on the field. Because last season, I thought this is the year the Bears will at least be 500. And then they could not have been, you know, more of a dysfunctional mass. But I still think there's talent there and there's plenty of good players.

So I even mean with the puzzle pieces, just Jordan love himself of it all fitting together at once. And I think the receivers you just ran through, there's something to like about all of them, but there's not a lot to fear about any of them. And golden is going to have to prove that and if he comes out and is the next Justin Jefferson, that'll change my mind. He seems like a guy that has enough speed to be really dangerous. But when you watched him,

it didn't blow my mind as far as the route running. And you mentioned the hands, but I can't, I watched enough of him and I can't remember ever being like, whoa, like he just jumped over somebody. He just blew by somebody. And there were kind of jokes about like the slowest four to nine player on tape. And some of that's just how you get off the line of scrimmage

and things like that. But okay, so even if he works out, you still have some good weapons. I think that Jordan Love is the type of quarterback that one of these years, if you do it year after year after year, he's going to have 35 touchdowns and eight picks. They'll drop every interception,

every deep ball will click. I don't know what year that's going to be that might be this year. Historically, that's how this type of quarterback has had their career go. And then otherwise, and this is even like an Eli Manning was like this push the ball down the field a lot, throw interceptions and a couple of times it just clicked for him got crazy hot and it worked, which is just a different world to live in

than you were used to where every year you start with 12 wins and then you see where the rest of it takes you. One other thing, speaking of quarterbacks, I would like to know what you are thinking about with JJ McCarthy in the Minnesota Vikings. And feel free to ask me any questions that you have here because locally people are through the roof excited about

JJ McCarthy for good reason he's come back from his injury looking very good in minicamp and OTAs the roster is stacked the Vikings led the universe in spending after already winning 14 games last year and I think they've put probably the number one supporting cast for any team in the NFL around their quarterback. Maybe there's another one I'm not thinking of, but when you add Jones, Jordan Mason, the offensive line rebuild, the best receiver in the world, there's, there's a lot going on there around JJ McCarthy. Are the, are the Packers thinking, or is this like, you know, we don't, we don't think about the Vikings. We just not too too concerned about. I think I think you've left that.

I think you've left that. I think you got to play with the rest of the kids now. We've we've never truly been there. Like, that's that's the thing. So I do the show out of Madison and we have some affiliates around the state. But the flagship is here in Madison. So I do talk a lot of badgers when there's things to discuss. And Wisconsin and Marquette has this hilarious rivalry

where like both fan bases refuse to acknowledge that they don't like the other side. So we don't think about you. It's like, yes, we do. Like, come on. So Packers fans would be lying if they say they're not thinking about the Vikings because look, it's not like Packers fans can cite recent success. It's not like they've had a run of good games against any of these teams. Really. They even dropped a game to the Bears last year. So recent returns haven't been good, but there's this, you know, we're grandfathered in, we're Packers fans. Um, I'm JJ McCarthy. I do find it hilarious. I brought this up on my show on Friday, just had some fun with the

audio that cowherd has found a scab to pick at with Vikings fans. And it's because it happened with Jordan Love too. Like if a quarterback sits for a year, we haven't seen him. There's no tape. We would know if he was grabbing, we knew about my homes when he was in practice. So it's these talking points that I've heard before. I think that the Michigan stuff is real and any hesitancy to say, well, he didn't have to throw much in college. So you don't really have much proof of concept there. And just go back to a month before, two or three months before the draft, like JJ McCarthy going that high and being thought of as that guy would have been crazy. But then we get into the draft cycle and we start to dig into these guys

and opinions really change. I'm pretty indifferent on J.J. McCarthy. He does seem to have a certain amount of swagger. I look at him and I listen to him like, yeah, that guy's not a dork. That guy's not a loser. There's something there. I've seen you tweeting about how he's looked at practice. Everyone says he looks great. So give me more detail on that. And in what ways has he looked great? I think number one, just how much he's in command out there. And that's always my first box to check that does this look like a practice being run by an NFL starting quarterback? I had a huge sample of watching Kirk practice. I had enough sample of watching Sam Bradford practice, which was incredible to watch by the way, uh,

because of his arm talent. So we know what it should look like. And even Sam Darnold last year, when he started to look in control of the offense, that's when we started to talk about like this Sam Darnold thing might actually work. And then it did. So there are indicators. Now we are talking about mini camps, So it's mostly seven on sevens. But last year in training camp, he was really coming along and I don't think he was going to be given the job, but he was making things interesting as he had gotten

better and better and better. And then he picked up here where he left off with all that experience that he gained from sitting on the sidelines last year and watching Sam Darnold do it and working with Kevin O'Connell. And the biggest thing for me is, I mean, for one, the arm talent is definitely there. Those people who questioned it. Now, look, if you go back and watch Michigan, it does look like he's an outfielder who's doing a crow hop looking to throw it to home plate on every single throw. I was worried about that too. But the kid was 20 years old. And now he is two years older, he's bigger, he's stronger. And he also realized that he has a strong enough arm to not have to do that all the time. The biggest thing for me

though is I have seen Justin Jefferson do unfathomable things for quarterbacks. And gosh, Kurt Cousins, I know he had the Achilles but didn't look the same without Justin Jefferson do unfathomable things for quarterbacks. And gosh, Kurt Cousins, I know he had the Achilles, but didn't look the same without Justin Jefferson last year with the Atlanta Falcons. Nick Mullins threw for 400 yards into two games in a row with Justin Jefferson. Sam Darnold won 14 games. Like you have the best coach for a quarterback in the league that's maybe not Sean McVayigh or Kyle Shanahan and he might be just on those guys level or getting there after last year and then the best receiver and then Jordan Addison who is better than any receiver the Packers have or the Lions have or well maybe Amon Ross Saint Brown but even then even then for a down for a downfield threat he's better than them too and he could be borderline a first or number one wide receiver. There's so much talent here. I didn't even mention the pro bowl tight end. I didn't even mention that Christian Derriss has been coming back. So it's like there is so much infrastructure

here that when you see him throwing balls and you see Justin Jefferson getting out of his routes and he's open, he's making catches, you're like, this is probably going to work folks. And what it really comes down to is, can he avoid, I think catastrophic mistakes is gonna be a big one. Can he keep the ball in play? Because you know that O'Connell is gonna find ways to get these guys open. So when you combine, looks like he's getting control,

throwing the ball much harder than people said that he could. To me, it's an above average NFL arm, if not really good. It's not quite Josh Allen or something. He doesn't throw it as hard, I don't think is Jordan love. But it's it's getting there. If he can figure out these details and just not get so anxious or overwhelmed by the fact that he's trying to lead a team that has Super Bowl expectations, they can be right there.

Well, and and that's the most interesting thing. And I'll take my like my Packers fan hat off and my owner named to help take them both off. And just like as a radio host who's interested in interesting storylines because the NFL gives us so many. J.J. McCarthy is a rookie could have a very good season by rookie standards. But on this team, like this is a team with Super Bowl aspirations. Like you said, this defense is ready to go with the coordinator, with the veteran talent, not just young and burgeoning talent, but veteran experience, talent leadership, same on offense, like this thing is ready to go.

So JJ McCarthy could come in and have a very good season by rookie quarterback standards, and it could still in some world, depending on how the record or how things shake out, still not be good enough for the team on which he's playing. And I think that's where national talkers are like, that's probably why they were so interested in keeping one of these other options around. And of course, because of injury too, because if he gets hurt, you just like you want to back up. But that's what I think is so interesting about the Vikings

is that team is ready to go. And the quarterback is just getting started. So how those two things play off each other and how that factors into the results, that's really interesting to go. And the quarterback is just getting started. So how those two things play off each other and how that factors into the results, that's really interesting to me. And I'm sure that's something that you guys have talked about plenty too. I have thought a lot about this saying that it's a rookie, basically a rookie quarterback is just, I think that's not really accurate.

I know that's how it's being painted for some people, but that's if you don't know what happened last year behind the scenes. Like every single week he got together with Kevin O'Connell and basically pretended that he was QB one preparing for every game as if he was the starting quarterback for that next upcoming game. He had an entire training camp with this team. They saw it. They saw what he could do out there. There's a lot more experience that's been racked up that hasn't been in front of the

public, but it's been in front of the franchise and is some of it has been in front of us. So, you know, of course, like we get painted as like, Oh, you guys just you love the team because you just the beat reporters and you're like, no, actually, I've just seen a lot more than you. Yeah, that's really, that's why, you know, I responded to, to Cowherd and just said, I'd like that. I wasn't even going after him. I just said, there's a lot of us here practice, if you'd like to really know, and I didn't get any response from that. So, you know, this is another thing that the Vikings are going to have to deal with that's a little different that

the Packers always live in this space, which is everything that happens this year to the Vikings is front page news on get up NFL network, national reporters. And if things go down for a little bit for a run, there's going to be a ton of pressure that gets heaped on. So that's the really thing we, we don't know. We know he knows this offense. We know he could throw the football. We know he's got this incredible coaching staff and supporting cast, but your debut is monday

field. That's a lot. And and you play joe burrow t then you're playing the s their defense and mike to doesn't sleep. You're pla playing jaden Daniels. So pressure is really the ma you're playing Jaden Daniels. So the I think the pressure is really the main thing here. But you're right, I if you are talking about all teams, and who's the

most interesting in the NFL, the Vikings have a great case for it, because there's not that many examples of something like this happening where it's a quarterback change after winning 14 games, it truly is unprecedented. And it's it's happened like not exactly like this like Brock Purdy once upon a time took over for the Niners but that that wasn't their plan like it happened to work out like that. This is the Vikings plan. This is the path that they have set on this is their decision and

this is premeditated in a way that often when situations like this come up like it's it's not laid out like this. It hasn't been planned like this. Um I think you're so right about how we had the full training camp last year, which is so important. And week to week during the regular season, obviously, you've covered that and talked about that. But it's like when a rookie comes in and they get banged up

and they miss mini camp or they miss training camp the rookie year, I don't think the average bear, the average fan, myself included, really fully understands how much that sets a young player back, that you are missing so much. So the fact that he had that last year before getting hurt and then still had the experience around the building with Kevin O'Connell and that whole system, I think he's set up just about as well as a player in his position could be set up. I just still don't know what that's going to look like. And the Vikings

need it to look like it's, it's pretty good because this team's ready to go. Um, and that's not me trying to cast out or be skeptical. That's just me kind of framing the circumstances and they're really interesting and I'm, I'm excited to see what it looks like and excited to follow along. Okay. Last thing for you, how many football games do you think the Green Bay Packers will win this year?

Nine sounds so negative. I want to say 10. Nine probably on the slightly negative side. You can go back and the Viking schedule was very similar in a lot of regards. Like you had the AFC South and you had like Joe Burrow, the Steelers, Lamar. The schedule is just different for the North this year. And I think there's a very good chance the Packers, pound for pound, could be a better, more well run, well oiled. This is such an overplayed football take. People

say this every year about, we say this about the Badgers all the time and then the record gets worse and they don't look any better. But I think there's a chance that they're a more mature team that executes at a higher level this year, but they win a game or two fewer than they did last year. I guess, optimistically, I would say 10. Pessimistically, I would say 9. But I still have a lot of questions about this team, and I'll go back to my original point. I think they have a lot of really good players,

and I think they've done a lot of good things. And when Aaron Rodgers is your quarterback, that's more than enough. Or when the rest of the division stinks, that's more than enough. Neither one of those things are true anymore. Which means I think a nine or a 10 win season given this schedule would would probably be a pretty good

success for this team this year. And Packers fans would hear that at first blush and kind of recoil and not like it. But I think it's fair and accurate. That's kind of where I have them. If I was doing it today, I would put the Lions at 12, the Vikings at 11, and the Packers at 10 and the Bears at eight. That's how I would do it right now. And I don't know how that 12, the Vikings at 11, and the Packers at 10, and the Bears at eight. That's how I would do it right now. And I don't know how that works with the rest of the league,

how you get that many wins out of one division, but- I'm not doing the math, yeah. It does feel like that is going to be the case for this year where it'll be tight, but there is a clear kind of one. And then if it works out for JJ McCarthy, the Vikings can be one A to the Detroit Lions. They've had enough go wrong for them. And we

none of us trust the Chicago Bears because they are the Chicago Bears. So yeah, that's that's where I'm at with the Bears. I think they have great players. And I think they've hired good coaches. But last year, I just kind of said never again, because we did our preseason prediction. I said, No, guys, that it will it has to happen this year. They've done too many smart things. And then they sucked. And I'm like, I'm never predicting

competence for this franchise ever again, like I'm gonna have to see it before I ever predicted again. So I, I think the division, I just about picked the division there. I think the Lions will come back to Earth a little bit. The Ben Johnson thing, I don't think will kill them in the big picture. You know this just as well as I know this. There were a lot of games last year that the lines played in that were decided by three fourth down plays and Ben Johnson always had the call to convert that fourth down play and if everything else remains the same and those plays regress a little bit without Ben Johnson, like that's two wins. If it reminds us of last season and if it's reminiscent of last season. So I think I would predict just about the same thing in the north that you did.

I like the way you laid that out. So I think I would predict just about the same thing in the north that you did. I like the way you laid that out Grant bills your Twitter is at Wisco grant and the zone if you know if folks are over there hunting or whatever you do Eating whatever we do Yeah, various meats in Wisconsin then make sure you turn I actually really love Madison by the way They have there is a. There is a place in Madison. I don't remember the name of it. It's in that little downtown area where they have the best cheese curds I've ever had in my entire life. So it is a nice town that you wear the old fashion.

Maybe one of those places, the old fashion. Yep, it's not like I also enjoy a big glass of PBR and they'll put a pickled egg in there for you, which is one of my favorite things to get maybe gross gross to some, I think endearing, very Wisconsinish to others, so to each their own. But I like your state as well. I go there often. So this is not a nasty rivalry. I just want your team to lose. That's all. No, but that is a nasty sounding thing that they do for you. But you know, Wisconsin, it is what it is. Grant, thank you so much for your time, sir. Always great to catch up with you. And we will definitely do it again soon.

Thank you. I appreciate it.