Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - PFF cap expert Brad Spielberger explains why Kwesi Adofo-Mensah has a chance to be a historic hire for Vikings

Episode Date: January 27, 2022

Matthew Coller and Pro Football Focus cap expert Brad Spielberger break down the Vikings' monumental hire of Kwesi Adofo-Mensah and what it means for the analytics movement in football. Brad explains what an "analytics front office" looks like and how Adofo-Mensah will likely operate the Vikings from the top. He talks about potential trade return for Kirk Cousins, the argument for a patient rebuild and what's going to happen with Danielle Hunter's contract. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collard here and joining me on the show, the brilliant cap expert from Pro Football Focus, Brad Spielberger. What is up, Brad? Great to have you back, man. Yeah, pretty slow week in the NFC North. Not much going on. No, it's obviously been crazy. A couple of general manager decisions coming down that impacted each other

between the Chicago Bears and the Minnesota Vikings. So it's been a busy time. How are you doing? Well, you know what? For me, it's been great because the the show sort of trying to reflect the fan base in terms of what can be that comes from this um that that's what i've tried to to do here is sort of capture that because i i have felt more interest from vikings fans and more excitement from vikings fans just based on the fact that they're moving away from the old guard and seeming to come into the year 2022 with the hiring of Kweisi Adolfo Mensah, that it feels

like everybody's sort of back on board after two years of just misery. I mean, it has been a sad couple of years watching Zimmer demand they run the ball more, watching Spielman do the same things in the draft that haven't worked. And also, you know, from a cap perspective, when you pull up over the cap.com and you see that your team is once again, totally at the bottom in the red to start the off season, it's like, it's, I think a really good feeling for Vikings fans that somebody might manage that a little better than the Vikings did when they were just shuffling things around to try and win now for the last couple of years and having it not work. Yeah, it's definitely different.

That much is for sure. Whatever direction Quezada Fomenta decides to go, it's obviously going to be a unique path. And truly, the Minnesota Vikings, I think, should be fascinating simply because, I mean, they just made a potentially league-changing decision. I don't want to, like, overstep it and be too dramatic, but that is the reality of the situation. We've had some capologists that have gone on to become general managers. We, of course, have had larger and larger roles for guys that come from analytical backgrounds. Paul DePodesta with the Cleveland Browns actually, you know, where Kwasi worked before. Of course, famously was with the cleveland browns actually um you know where crazy worked before of course famously was it was with the new york mets for a while so it's cool though

because obviously whatever happens now will be heavily scrutinized and everything will be nitpicked and all that but you know as as we're gonna be the case regardless it's almost funny where the vikings because of the long-term stability it's almost like when the patriots like picked in the top 10 you know for the first time in 20 years or you know picked 15th like it's it's something you haven't done in a while such change is always interesting well right and uh i have heard from a couple of people who are into analytics like yourself who have said great now this one guy has to sort of carry the weight for the rest of the league because what we usually see in the nfl is people on the outside will know

something will work and they will only wait until they see it work for somebody else until they actually start to do it. For example, Russell Wilson being drafted in the third round, like, well, until I see a short quarterback who's unbelievably gifted work, then I'm not going to draft him. And then Kyler Murray, a couple of years later, he's number one. And the same thing goes for, I mean, a lot of things going forward on fourth down, like, oh, Doug Peterson did it in a Superbowl and won that Superbowl. I guess we need to do it now. And so the Vikings are kind of leading the way here by hiring somebody that is unique in his background from any other hire in the NFL. Yeah, 100%. I mean, I think you can come out and say that.

Has not been in the NFL a super long time either. Obviously joined the San Francisco 49ers, I believe, in 2013 as their director of research and strategy. Got a promotion to, I want to say, VP of research and strategy. You know, some of that time with Jim Harbaugh. So obviously has seen successful buildings. Has also seen, which I always try to say is valuable. Maybe that's just my opinion, but I also think it's cool that he goes from that

to then bouncing to the Cleveland Browns where you see things differently, right? And you see a different organization. Andrew Berry came from the Philadelphia Eagles, obviously a successful organization there. So, yeah, I mean, it's a very cool story. And, yes, he is carrying the weight, just like Brandon Staley. Every time he goes for a fourth down, every fired former GM and head coach that is afraid of math or whatever their issue is, we'll see the same thing. But I think the cool thing about him, and we'll obviously get into this, but he's not tethered to one ideology.

And I think that is what gets lost with quote-unquote analytics is that the one thing all of us agree on, and trust me, we disagree all the time. The one thing we do agree on is you should look at a problem from every single possible angle. And that is the best way to arrive at the best decision. So that I think is what he's going to do. And that means that everyone's voice in the building just got more valuable. Right. One thing that our friend Eric Eager did in this last draft season was he took scouting reports from Dane Brugler and text mined them for different words and things that were included in scouting reports that correlated to success. So there's a lot of things you could do, but no one would ever say, don't scout the players. That would be insanity. But there's a lot of things you could do with

scouting reports because generally scouts are good at their jobs and take them and analyze them and see what works and see what doesn't. And then combine that with your positional value and things on the purely analytic side. And that's where I wanted to talk about today with you, Brad, is what an analytic front office means. Because I think the way, I just think it's framed weirdly. It's kind of like anything in life where if there's one thing, and I won't use political examples because I'm just not ready for that in my life. But if there's one thing, one little way of framing an issue with one word or phrase, it probably is so devoid of nuance that it basically means nothing put it that way and i think the same thing is when people say analytics like analytics there could be so many different things that that refers to i think it's a research-based mindset uh of taking all the information you have and making decisions rather than having scouts stand on the table and say you must draft garrett bradbury because i love

him and that's just not a good way to do it. That's guessing versus trying to make a process-based decision. So I think that's the difference, but maybe you could, as you help these teams and you talk with these teams and study this all the time, give me your viewpoint on what it means to have an analytic-based front office. Yeah. You know, the funny thing is, I think if you asked me to define or maybe to name examples of analytics, I'm not even sure if in my first five things I mentioned, if I even talk about fourth down decisions or going for two or any of that, like it's, and that's just me also, other people probably would say that right away. But to me, frankly, I've heard a lot of stories

about sports science. Number one, there's a thing that people call, I guess people refer to around the league as Rams Wednesdays because the Los Angeles Rams realized that they started to give more and more veterans days off of practice. When they started to more, the league incorporated these tracking devices and pads, and they were using that not just in games. Folks don't know that. They use it for every single practice, and they're tracking these guys to see if they're, you know, do guys get hurt more often when they're fatigued or, you know, are soft muscle issues happening in the morning or in

the afternoon? Like they're studying everything. And that's for these guys' benefits so that they can stay healthy and can play to the best of their ability. Because I mean, that's what you're looking for. So like that's an example. And then of course, yes, I have the salary cap and contract background. So there's only a handful of teams in the NFL, to my knowledge, that have someone that truly is trying to analyze market value and is learning and trying to model the valuation for not just their own players, but all the pending free agents and guys they're going to go after and stuff like that. So you can apply it. Like you said, it's just applying information and applying data. And so even if you get to scouting, again, I rick spielman i think was probably a very good scout but when you have a top scout as your your head guy it's got to be very hard if he disagrees or

not if he just has his own opinion on something it's got to be hard to deviate from that and to trust the people around you and i'm not saying he didn't do that he had an appearance that i thought was cool where he talked about how they would grade all their guys based on a bunch of different categories. They did behavioral analysis. They were really into finding out what the guy's personality was like. Trust me, they covered all their boxes. But at the end of the day, I just find it hard to believe that if there were between two guys and it was 55% was against Rick and 45% was with Rick. I'm just – I shouldn't even use Rick's name.

But X person, I find it hard to believe they wouldn't go with their gut there. And I genuinely think Juarez de Fomensa would. I think he said, look, this is how it bears out. We're asking the guys that have a stronger track record of scouting offensive line or they're better with cornerbacks or, you know, ABC XYZ. And you want to empower everyone in your building. You want everyone to feel like their opinion is valuable. And I think he actually will enhance that, which is funny because I think the perception is that he's going to think he's smarter than everyone and not listen and just do what he wants to do. And I think it's the opposite.

Right. And I think that's just generally good leadership in a team, which is the number one thing when it comes to anything. And I think that's why Ryan Poles was considered such a strong candidate for this job. And in Chicago is that everyone talked about his ability to relate to people and his leadership. And that will be Adolfo Menta's biggest challenge is taking on this leadership role. And that's where you can't predict how someone who's new in the job is going to be able to handle that. And, you know, I know that you don't want to throw Spielman under the bus for anything when it comes to, you know, how the last few years were handled. But what I could not bring myself to believe is that when you sign

certain contracts that there were people in the building saying, oh yeah, that's a great idea, Rick, do it. Like there's just, it just wouldn't add up. Because I know some of the people in the front office of the Vikings who are very savvy people and understand the value of an NFL dollar. And I just can't see looking at Harrison Smith and saying, oh yeah, that's a guy that you definitely want to give one of the highest contracts in the league at his position when Malcolm Jenkins in the same spot a few years ago got way less like there's just too smart of people to be saying that and I even look at like the Kyle Rudolph contract from a few years back

that was like no not everybody was on board with that I know that for sure and it was like nope we're keeping him because we got to win now and I I think that's the best thing that that crazy has going for him is that it's really a blank canvas. You could do whatever you want at quarterback. You could do whatever you want in building the rest of the roster. So let me ask you this, Brad, from a from a cap perspective, because it's what you study the closest. Where should money be spent in the NFL?

I was looking at the cap situations for the final four and it's kind of all over the map in some ways. I mean, some teams spend almost nothing on the offensive line at the moment, but they've drafted to build the offensive line as the Vikings have been trying to do and other teams spend a lot. And there, you know, there's one team that has spent a lot on its quarterback for this year, but probably drafted Trey Lance to not spend a lot on the quarterback in the future. So I wonder about when, if you're given the blank slate, as I think quasi almost is here, how are you putting your, where are you putting your assets and your money? Yeah, no, he's pretty close to a blank slate. I would imagine, you know, I think he has free reign here to do what he wants to do. And obviously the first decision

comes down to Kirk cousins and everything will kind of ripple off of that decision and what happens there. But, I mean, I think that question is tough. Obviously quarterbacks will just kind of remove that. That always kind of ruins football conversations. But I am a believer, and this may in some ways be anti-analytical. I don't really think it is. But I'm a believer in you winning the trenches. I've always held that philosophy and i think that yes the shiny toys on the outside are probably how you you know like how you go from

being good to maybe being great like a cincinnati bangles team that already has a joe burrow if you want to go from you know if you want to be a 500 team and guaranteed to be a 500 team maybe you take an offensive lineman if you want to try to make an asu championship game when you're hot with a rookie contract quarterback you take jamar chase and shoot for the moon. And so it's like, there's always context to everything, but in a general sense, I just don't think you can do much unless you're protected up front. And on the flip side, I do strongly agree with a lot of my coworkers and cohorts that coverage is very, very valuable because you need to stop the pass, right? So as the league continues to get more and more into passing, coverage players are more important. And traditionally they wouldn't get paid much. Guys would let them go. They would spend all

their money on the defensive line and let their coverage players go. If you have a special coverage player, you should keep them. But in a general sense, I do think you want to get after the quarterback. I mean, look at the San Francisco 49ers. I know I'm just using this year's playoff teams. I promise I'm not just recency biased in these opinions, but you know, I mean, I mean, their secondary is, is not very talented to begin with is decimated with injury. And it, it frankly doesn't matter at times because of how stout they are up front. So that's where I would start. It's where I would look to initially add resources. And then you just hope to kind of build around it. You know, I think one thing that I love about football is that there is no one way because Bill Belichick for many years would pay a top corner and he would go crazy for top corners

and say, I will use Stefan Gilmore to shut down their top guy. And then I will scheme the rest. And Mike Zimmer really, I mean, did this in a lot of ways too, with they drafted first round corners, Xavier Rhodes, Trey Waynes, and then used Rhodes to shut down the other team's top receiver and was able to ski. It's so much easier to scheme everything to one side of the field when you could shut down part of it.

The issue is it's just really hard to find that guy. Cause there's only a couple, I mean, Jalen Ramsey and dot, dot, dot. Like there's only a handful of guys who can Island somebody really ever in the NFL. So if you have one, um, or at least even for a long period of time, well, that's great, but you usually don't. If you get a good pass rusher, the dude will get you 10 sacks every year for 10 years and just keep doing it and doing it and doing it. And I think that's sort of a, an interesting part of this because you could look at it

either way. Belichick always thought I can find pass rushers and rotate them in. Whereas like you're saying, San Francisco has been all in on defensive line, which really comes to, you better be good at one of them is kind of the way I look at it. I tend to think that when you get into those playoff games though, and you're facing a really good quarterback, there is only one answer for stopping a really good quarterback. And that is to beat his ass up. And that's it. And it's always in forever, right? You go back to way back in the day to not too long ago to recently. And that is just to get in that guy's face in under two and a half seconds. And that's it. And when the Vikingsings were great that's at defense that's

one of the things they had is three four five guys on the defensive line that could rush so i completely agree on that and it kind of speaks to how they were just going this anti sort of what makes sense way in recent years with like the getting multiple nose tackles you even referenced the sports science stuff oh the vikings do that mike Mike Zimmer just didn't use it. Like I know they do. They were taking the tracking stuff off of the guys after every single practice. So I know they were doing it. Mike Zimmer just didn't care for the most part. And so that's another part of it too. And I want you to speak to this is tying together the next coach's philosophy with what Quasio Adolfo Menta wants to do, I think is incredibly

important. It's not just about picking your guy, but it's about really understanding each other and what each other thinks wins. If you think that coverage is king and that's the way we win, great. Let's go find the best secondary we can get. If you think that the only way to win is pass rush, let's do that. Let's be on the same page with how we want to build this roster because i think what we just saw was two guys who may have been on the same page early on but absolutely weren't at the end and it was just a mess yeah i think once you start pulling in different directions it does get complicated i mean even just to tie up the loose ends in our last conversation like the like the example of context is always key if you get a

miles garrett in cleveland what they decided was all right we have a top five edge rusher in the nfl now we're going to spend a ton of money on draft picks on the secondary and then we're just going to sign one-year flyers with jv and clowny one-year flyer with malik jackson one-year flyer with tack mckinley like so it is always context but then they you know that they prioritize and it worked they had a good defense this year and they had a great coverage unit. So I do, you know, I do agree as well. Yes, you need to be on the same page. I think the issue, not that you should be married to one specific philosophy, but my belief is once you pick a direction, you got to go that direction all the way. Like you can't, you can't kind of be in and out and, and make a move that's

aggressive and then also make a move that's kind of regret. Like it just, it has to be, and again, I'm not saying go all in or tank. I'm not being extreme, but just, yes, if you decide you're going to do X, all right, go out and get talent that fits this philosophy that does, that helps your coach do what he needs to do. Well, you know, if he wants to run a wide zone rushing scheme and continue with the, you know, the Kubiak model, all right, well then you need to get offensive linemen that excel in doing this and things like that and so on and so forth. And I think that's a big thing too, is that, and again, we are speculating, but I trust that, and this maybe ties to Jim Harbaugh a little bit as well, but if Kwezi Adilpomensa isn't maybe a super scout, he might even trust more if a coach says, hey, I'll let you come up with the dollars and cents

valuation. And I'll let you come up with kind of maybe who specifically you want to target but here's the exact skill set that i need for this team and exactly how valuable i think it will be to what i want to do and i think quiz would say all right i'll go take that run with it talk to other people figure it out and i'll get back to you and i'll try to fix that for you and i don't see him pushing back and be like well i actually think we should do this no he'll just do he'll get back to you and I'll try to fix that for you. And I don't see him pushing back and be like, well, I actually think we should do this. No, he'll just try to maximize what he's asked to do. Folks, support for Purple Insider is brought to you by Manscaped. They are the best in men's below-the-waist grooming.

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because the answer is always the cheap quarterback on the rookie deal and sadly that's true um so let's talk about the quarterback decision and the salary cap situation so you're taking over if you're crazy a salary cap situation that is in the red by 13 million, according to over the cap.com. Not great, Brad. And when you look at some of the other contracts, they're not particularly favorable either. We can get into the Daniel Hunter situation as we have many times before. But also you've got a highly paid running back who just is coming off his worst year by PFF grades and by his EPA efficiency. And then when you're talking about, you know, the other parts of the roster, Adam

Thielen has to have something done with his contract. But I also don't think that if you are crazy, what you want to do is come in and say, who's into void years? Anybody? Can you guys void years? Some stuff? Yeah. Let's kick it down the road. He's not going to want to do that. So I think there's some really tough decisions, but it all starts with how they want to handle the quarterback position. So give me your perspective on if you are going, if you are the most analytically analytical guy, how are you handling this quarterback situation? So here's the fascinating thing. And I think it's, we should touch on it because it's very, very rare, but the fact that quasi-doful Mensa's contract details got out is not really a common thing. And I'll just touch on the four years to my understanding is a bit shorter than

normal for a general manager. And we also have to remember that these guys have their own incentives and their own things they're thinking of. And I hope he doesn't feel pressure to win right away. And I don't think he will. I think it would be very foolish to hire a quasi-diple Mensa and then tell that guy yeah but we're trying to win now and we think we have a win now roster when pretty much every signal and everything he looks at would probably tell you the opposite um so I I would I frankly I would tear this thing down not you know like I would I would try to trade Kirk Cousins. I think there will be a market. I know his season did not end spectacularly,

but as we talked about on the show also probably many times, he's a very high four player, a desperate team. If Carolina strikes out with everybody and Matt Rule just wants to keep his job for another year, he brings him and Kirk Cousins and maybe wins 10 games. There's always going to be a team out there that maybe wants to do that. I do start there. I start there, and I also, like you said, am I giving Adam Thielen a big contract? No.

I mean, Harrison Smith is too late now, but those guys, and obviously the Hunter decision, it's crazy. He has to walk in and has this massive decision on Daniel Hunter. He can just kick the money down the road if he would like on that deal. Maybe that's the one spot where I would consider it and just say, I just want to punch making a decision on this period. I kind of want to just not even think about it. But I would not plan to be a competitive football team in 2022.

I think that is just not a realistic path for the Minnesota Vikings. I don't mean that in a negative way. I just don't think it's a reality. But I do think there are really, really good young players in this team that you can build around. Justin Jefferson, maybe a Christian Derisazi came along as the year went on. There are cornerstones that you can maybe build around if you try to quickly turn this thing over.

And maybe by his third season, 2023, 2024, you're a really good team with the best receiver in football and a good offensive line. I know that sounds crazy to Vikings fans. So I don't think it's, my thing about this is always, if you want to be good soon, you can delay that by trying to be okay in the interim or you can get there faster by just being bad for a year or two there's so many teams that have done a quick turnaround in year two of a rookie quarterback rookie quarterback contract somebody they draft it's not always a guarantee but man does it happen a lot where if you have some good things in place and you take the second year quarterback whether he sits for a year or not, and then plug

him in after he's had that experience. Cause rookie quarterbacks just aren't going to take you anywhere. The game is way too fast, way too complicated, way too tough. Even Mac Jones burned out as the season went on a little bit. But I would be happy if I'm in the Patriots spot because of just the recent history of how often that happens, that a team can take that big jump in the second year of a quarterback. And that's why i actually think when you say well you know you might have to take a step back for a year that a lot of people go good i mean that it actually might be more fun think about this if you were to go eight nine seven and ten whatever but you're evaluating players throughout the entire season of what they're going to mean toward the future, including a quarterback. That is way more fun than going.

We are a good team Zimmer all year long with we're actually a good team. You guys just don't understand. I'm like, okay, man, why'd you point differential negative still? Uh, but it's just like, okay, great. Fantastic. I'm sure that Xavier woods will take you to the next level. Just like, come on, man. I mean, nobody wanted that. After they were sold kind of a bill of goods with this, we're going to sign a bunch of free agents and go make the playoffs again. I don't think anybody wants to see that. That would be a huge mistake to just repeat history. We talked about this when they did it last off season. When you sign a bunch of short-term contracts, those people leave. And usually there's a reason why they're signing a one-year contract.

Maybe because they're crazy, like Bashad Breland or something, right? Just like, there's always a reason why the guy's only making $2.5 million on a one-year deal. So that was going to be my next question is, okay, so you got the Kirk decision. I feel like the analytical thing to do here is to move on from kirk it's to get a rookie quarterback all those things so let's even just say that happens approaching free agency though you also don't want to go into it and just be like nah i'm out no i'm good don't uh don't call me um but what what if you're taking a long-term approach to rebuilding your team, but also

want to add pieces through free agency, like how do you balance that? So I would say first and foremost, and I know Zimmer was against this and probably for other reasons, but I'm playing young players. That's the first thing I'm doing is, and they might be bad, but I want to find out, are you bad? Like, I want to find out, is there no path forward for you? If I give you 500 snaps in a season to really give you runway and let you play are you going to improve are you going to not make the same mistake twice

or are you just a bad player which is fine but going with the known below average versus the unknown bad but maybe becomes above average or even just average is is a problem that snowballs because then you never see these guys. They never develop with actual gameplay. And then you're stuck just continuing to add band-aids. So you can still participate in free agency. But for me, like if I'm signing up a shot Breland, it's to be my number one backup cornerback.

He's not jumping a young corner on my roster. Again, even if I have doubts and I have question marks and, and cam Dantzler, you know, I have concerns about his size or his whatever. okay, let him figure that out on the fly. Let receivers push him around the field for an entire season so that he's so motivated to get in the weight room in the offseason

and add 10 pounds so that never happens again. I'm saying this like it's joking, but I think that stuff matters. I really do. And I think you're not – if you're a good competitive team and you have a couple holes and you think, yeah, this kid could be really good, but we just can't afford right now. And it's not fair to our veterans right now to kind of let him be deficient and let him learn on the job. That's a different conversation.

That's not where the Minnesota Vikings are right now. So you participate in free agency, but you're adding depth. I think you're adding strong veteran presences of guys that just can quote unquote maintain, or maybe build a new culture where the young guys just know you still work hard, you know, all those things and all that, but you're not going out trying to find starters in free agency. Would it matter to you? I get this question a lot that Aaron Rogers might retire. So let's say Rogers retires or he gets

traded to the broncos and he's just not your problem anymore uh and all of the sudden the nfc north is a detroit team that's not ready a chicago team that's probably not ready and you're sitting there going well we have justin jefferson on his rookie contract and we just created all this cap space from kirk cousins and well marcus mar Mariota wants to sign here for a one-year deal to see if he could get a starting job elsewhere. Would that change your approach at all that the kings of the NFC North for the last 30 years might not have their crown anymore because of the quarterback situation? Yeah. So I would, I'll be honest. That's a situation where if that decision happens before I'm forced to make a decision on Kirk Cousins, look, I'm not loading up. I'm not going out and pushing cap down the road and spending a

ton of money to make a big run. But then that's where you say, look, should we let one more year play out? Yes. It's $35 million in salary. And yes, it might not be the smartest thing, but say, look, there is a very, very realistic path forward to at least winning the division, playing a playoff game, getting these young guys experience in high leverage moments and high leverage situations. And then we'll still, but still, we're not going to, like I said, we're not going to spend a ton on top of that. And if it doesn't go well, then let's say halfway through the season, the record's bad and things aren't going well, then yeah, you bottom out.

Like you're just done. But I do think it would be tough because yeah, I mean, the Detroit Lions and Chicago Bears are not ready to be a competitive football team in 2022. Not by any stretch of the imagination. And the Packers, if Rodgers leaves, probably also lose Devontae Adams. Probably, I think are going to lose both of the Smith brothers. Like they would also be a bad team. So as much as you shouldn't attack windows and all of that, I think it would be kind of hard not to for them because, like you said,

you have the rookie contract, Justin Jefferson. You'll have some more young rookie players. It'll be tough. But I wouldn't push in to try to make a Super Bowl run. I would just say let's see what we can do in the NFC North. See, I say Super Bowl run, I would just say, let's see what we can do in the NFC North. See, I say Super Bowl or nothing. So you should always just be focusing on that. And one way to get to the Super Bowl is to hit on a bunch of draft picks. And one way to get a bunch of draft picks is you get those draft picks by trading stuff. And if you traded Cousins and you can

comment on his trade value, what you think it is, but if you got a first round pick for Kirk Cousins, and you can comment on his trade value, what you think it is. But if you got a first round pick for Kirk Cousins, and then you're drafting twice in the first round, and you've created a bunch of cap space for yourself, and then you move out some guys for more draft capital or more cap space, you are in a position to quickly get back up to that and stay there. I think you hold yourself back by doing another year of the same kind of thing and going, yay, we won the NFC North at nine and eight. And then you go on the road in the playoffs to get your face beat in and like, okay, well, that was fun. What was the point of all that? Right. And the thing is too, that the bears have that quarterback going into the second year.

I don't think the lions are that close, but the lions will be more competitive next year. And also it wasn't really green Bay that was holding the Vikings back. I mean, they, they usually split with green Bay. It wasn't so much them. It was themselves. It was, they couldn't beat Detroit on the road and Detroit's own 10. It was like these, these things that kept happening to them because they weren't good enough. The other thing too, is if you say, okay, Kirk, you come back and we're going to sign this player, this player short-term deal, we end up in the same spot next year, either way. So I think that you shouldn't even worry at all about green Bay. It's like, get in the race, the rebuild race and

take off and go toward that finish line. And don't let anything distracting you like beautiful celebrities. That's a Zoolander reference. you ever see zoolander no are you oh okay all right so distractions for beautiful celebrities yeah fred durst is one of them which is just hilarious anyway so uh yeah don't don't let yeah just stay on that runway and don't kill the prime minister of malaysia and if you haven't seen the movie Zoolander, you think I'm the biggest weirdo right now, but anyway, so, um, you get what I'm saying. I do. I'll stop. That's why he talks about going left all the time. That's there's a, there's a lot of Zoolander and Vikings crossover at all times. Yes. Can't turn left. Right. So, uh, I don't know what the point was. Oh, the point was just that, um, yeah, I mean, I don't think you should really worry about um green bay but

give me your thought on the on that and the uh cousins potential value no yeah so to be clear that was me saying like i think it's it'll be something that's enticing and tough to pass up i would not do that um i i still do think you can get a first round pick for kirk cousins i think at some point maybe on this podcast or otherwise i said a first first and a second. That may have gone down, frankly. He did not have a stellar end of the season. But more so, really, is just this contract. Folks just need to understand that because he has the most leverage of any player in the National Football League, it just changes the calculation.

But I still do think you could probably get a first-round pick for him. And yeah, like you said, at that point, you could probably get back really quickly. Because even still, the division's not that strong. You kind of bottom out, but you're having some – it doesn't really matter. Like you said, you're just going for the fastest path back to relevance. And I think in that scenario, you kind of follow your old buddy George Payton where he could have made a power play for a quarterback. He could have gone crazy and gone the Sam Darnold route. He could have done a lot of things.

But he kind of said, you know what, I'll just take on a Teddy Bridgewater. I know, I know this guy very well. I know the ceiling's not very high, but I'm going to let a lot of young players on both sides of the ball, play a lot of football. They actually were, you know, relatively competitive, obviously, you know, 500 football team, but they weren't trying to win. Right. And I think that is, that is also very smart. Like the, you know trading away a von miller for a second and a third round pick is just a a no-brainer decision um and then now whether they go you know veteran route or not at quarterback nevertheless they're set up very well to where once they figure that out a lot of other pieces are in place so yeah i i agree minnesota should definitely go that route it is the fastest way to actually being

relevant and i do agree with you if you're not if you're not an actual contender there's not a point in in staying in purgatory and winning 8 to 11 games and not winning any playoff games folks want to tell you about hello fresh with hello fresh you get farm fresh pre-portioned ingredients and seasonal recipes delivered right to your doorstep. You can skip the trips to the grocery store and count on HelloFresh to make home cooking easy, fun, and affordable. That's why it's America's number one meal kit. The new year is a great time to focus on what's important to you, whether it's saving money by ordering less takeout, learning to cook, or just prioritizing your wellness.

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and like, um, and then what his agent drops him as a client or something like, come on, you, you just can't, you can't do that. Um, I know that it goes back to Brady, but I don't think there's anybody else who has ever really done this. And especially with cousins who held Washington hostage for several years and then signed these two incredible deals from his perspective with the Vikings. He's going to go to his stats and go, why exactly should I be taking this pay cut? Right. That that's what his side is going to say. So I don't see that as a realistic option. One of the 32 teams will pay that. So why would he take, you know, a dollar or less? I don't, is he tethered to the state of Minnesota? Yeah, no, that's not, I know you're not saying you suggesting it's a real thing, but yeah,

I'm sorry, folks. Unfortunately, that's, that's not really a real thing. Well, and that's the thing is that he's so not tethered that we are on day, what, 16 now of him not saying anything after his coach and GM are fired so I'd be keeping a tracker because I just think what a pillar of leadership it is and care for your team and franchise that you don't even put out an Instagram thing to say whoops I got my coach and GM fired sorry everyone thanks for the memories and real quick just to point out like even though there's been like negative like every other coach Brian Flores had 20 players tweeting about him. Like every coach has players that are trying to say something.

So anyway, we'll, we'll let that sit, whatever, whatever that may imply. Just soak that in for a minute. But yeah, that's just shows you how much this needs a reset entirely. So let's talk about the Hunter thing. And I mean, we could just go on all day about all these different people's contracts but let's just do that one um because you have other things to do so the the question that i get on the hunter contract is well couldn't they take that roster bonus that's set to hit on uh the fifth day of the league year and just change it into whatever they change it into and kind of do that whole thing spread it out whatever else you can explain it but um to me

one of the issues is age injury history price timeline like that's many issues actually uh that all go into it you mentioned von miller like it's not exactly the same but in a way it has that same sort of reflection of that or khalil mac where these pass rushers are spectacular and they have a lot to do with you winning games. However, they're not quarterbacks. And there are teams that have been very savvy, the Patriots, the Ravens, about how they build with multiple pass rushers, as opposed to pouring it all into one. And I think there's a good case to move on because of that, not because he's not great, but because of that part of it is in baseball now that we're going to get to use all the money ball references it's better to have three outfielders than one

sometimes um you know the three outfielders who are pretty good rather than one who's great yeah no 100 and these tough decisions i know they're tough but yeah i mean you we see two franchises do it over and over and over again and i think most most fans would agree being a fan of the Patriots and Ravens has probably been fun the last 20 years. And the Patriots did it with Chandler Jones. It was Richard Seymour. The Ravens did it with Zedarius Smith. I mean, both teams I could name five guys.

And they've been able to, as you said, generate pressure with multiple players and then allocate those resources towards other positions or even still paying some of those guys but not paying them, paying two or three guys $10 million a year instead of giving one guy $20 million a year. I'm not even sure people realize Trey Flowers is still on the Detroit Lions roster. That's another former Patriot right there. It is. I think it's fair to point that way. I think Hunter's situation was always kind of dependent on what happened.

Whenever I give kind of a non-answer to things, it's kind of because I think there isn't really a current answer. And so for him to get hurt again is tricky. Obviously, again, a Kirk decision impacts everything. So if you trade Kirk, you're not restructuring that roster bonus and giving him – it's basically like a two-year, $25 million deal that you're not going to get out of and he's going to want an extension the entire time anyway um you know everything predicates everything else so i think the issue is if quasi does that he's gonna have i'm not gonna say he's gonna have a disgruntled player

i'm not gonna guarantee i don't know but he probably will and i think he would just say hey look you're new here i have nothing against you but can you either extend me or trade me? Because I'm not trying to hang around for a rebuild or I'm not trying to run it back with Kirk one more time and then hang around for a rebuild. It's a tough spot. I think he needs to be, maybe it's unrealistic,

but if I was a general manager coming into situations like this, like I would be brutally honest. Like I would be very candid with guys like this and try to establish kind of respect and a rapport right away, showing that I want to look out for their best interests and care about their best interests, because the runway that you get as an early GM, in my opinion, if you have time and patience, which again, he should, if he doesn't, it's not his fault. It's other people's fault, is taking advantage of that.

And the way you can actually take advantage of that is be blunt with people and kind of show your cards a little bit because you are going to get to a point in your career where you're not really able to show your cards and you have to kind of play games with everyone. And if you show your cards to one guy, then the other guy in the locker room wants this and that and the other. And so you don't have that at the start so i would capitalize on it you know everything that happens i try to take a little something from and apply it to the future and that riley reef yanni kongakwe situation you really like what you're saying is just so true about the gm doesn't just have to establish relationships within the front office but even within the locker room

and they alienated riley reef and he probably would have come back. Um, maybe, you know, they don't get there saw in that case or something. So they're drafting someone else. And I think there saw is going to be a really good player, but the point is just that that was a leader of your team. That guy wore a C and you made him take a pay cut. So you could trade for a guy that you kept for five games and then traded him like that's just not a good look to anybody and then the players start to go does our management know what the hell they're doing and does our you know does our coaches know what they're doing and that kind of thing it's really those relationships break down very quickly so i think that's a great point

well brad uh pff underscore brad on twitter you are the best of the best, sir, when it comes to breaking down cap stuff and analyzing these types of situations. And I'm really thankful to have you as a resource to be able to bring on the show and explain stuff that as much as I try, I'm not quite capable of doing. That's my elite skill is when I don't know what I'm talking about, I ask somebody else. There you go. Well, you're just like your new general manager. That's exactly what we've been trying to say the whole show. So I know I thank you. I appreciate it. You're obviously far too kind as always. And it's going to be awesome. I think that the NFC North and particularly these two teams, these journeys are tethered together, whether they should be or not, they're definitely going

to be. So it's going to be cool to watch. Well, you will be back. I'm sure soon breaking down the next thing and the next thing after the Kirk trade, by the way, I have jury duty February 14th. That's when they'll trade Kirk. It is locked in. I just said to the other day, the other day to someone, I had a guest booked different guest, obviously for this time. And I was like, but that's the day they'll name the GM.

This was a week ago. It was like, that is a guarantee. That is the day the GM happens. And this is the day every time. So anyway, lock it in that you'll be on the show after that, but but you will return and bring us lots of knowledge. So thanks again, man. And we'll be back. Thank you.