Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - PFF NFL Draft analyst Austin Gayle breaks down O-line prospects and what the Vikings should do if a QB is on the board

Episode Date: March 31, 2021

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with Drizzly or Instacart, Coors Brewing Company, Golden, Colorado, and as always, celebrate. Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider presented by Scout Logistics and Stim Bowl, the stock market for sports. Matthew Collar here and from the Two for One Drafts podcast and part author of the Massive Draft guide to Pro Football Focus, Austin Gale. What is up, Austin? Doing well, man. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, I got to say, I've been listening to a lot of you guys lately because it is draft season, and sometimes I'm a little horrified, I have to tell you, not with your draft takes, but with your personal stories that you and Renner start the shows with. I just wanted to ask you, are you okay? And anyone who listens to your show will know exactly what I mean when to ask you, are you okay? And anyone, anyone who listens to your show will know exactly what I mean when I ask you if you're okay. I'm okay, man. I'm rallying. Today, actually, we just got done recording. I have another good story about getting thrown into the friend zone early. And it's a good one, though. But it's been a lot of fun. You know,

Mike and I, jokes aside, have really grown as friends. You know, in addition to being colleagues, we hang out all the time, and I think that feeds into the show and the stories and all that stuff. It really is one of my favorite parts of every show when you guys tell dating stories or from your very normal family that you have and things like that. It adds an extra layer. And I was going to tweet you, like, you guys are one of my favorite draft podcasts, but definitely my favorite dating podcast by far and uh you know so I married my first girlfriend so I'm sort of like dating through Renner basically because that I just that never

happened for me so I want to say dating through Renner too sometimes I mean that guy that guy uh he does well with the ladies I was like oh, they were favoriting each other's Instagrams. Like, man, you're in trouble. So anyway, but that is only part of the podcast. I have really, really enjoyed you guys' coverage through draft season. And I want to dive right into something that you and I were joking about right before we went on is these pro day numbers. Because every day, so like the combine is, ooh, this guy ran that, that guy ran that. And that goes on for like three days.

With this offseason, every single day it's a new guy where we're like, oh, my God, he ran a 4-4 or something. Or he has this wingspan. It's like an extended daily freakout over the top prospects being good at football and athleticism. Amazing, right? It's amazing, man. I think it's been really interesting too, because we were talking about a little bit in that, you know, the standard fan or the average fan is largely being introduced to these prospects every day. You know, normally when the combine is at the back end of February, you know, the NFL immediately introduces a week-long coverage with interviews, with pro day, I mean, numbers and all this stuff in a week. And I think that's when everyone gets first introduced to the class or

the large part of the class. And now it's like, wait, Kyle Pitts ran what? You know, Jamar Chase did this. It's like, it's crazy. And I do think that, you know, there's a lot of media or a lot of fans even, and they're throwing some of these numbers right out. You know, it's a pro day number, it's juiced, why even factor this in? And I think to some degree that's true. I think there's a 3% margin of error on average for pro day figures, specifically ones with a stopwatch compared to combine figures. However, what you're looking for with these pro day numbers is outliers. You know, Paris Ford running a 4940 as a safety is an outlier. That's bad. Tuff Borland's pro day yesterday. Justin Hilliard of Ohio State's pro day yesterday was bad hurley hilliard of ohio state's pro day yesterday was bad you're looking for outliers and then you're also looking for you know joe i would argue jamar chase on tape is a low four fours guy he runs a four three eight you call that a juice on the three percent more like

a four four five type i'm fine with that the other thing to know too is that daniel jeremiah of nfl network who was also a former scout has told me at the combine when talking about you know why do scouts still have their you know their their stopwatches at the combine when talking about, you know, why do scouts still have their stopwatches at the combine? Why are they still timing these things? Why do scouts go to pro days if you already got their numbers at the combine? NFL scouts and NFL front offices do not take combine numbers wholesale. The numbers they take are the best ones. If he weighed in at 210 at his pro day but 215 at the combine,

we're taking the 210 or whatever number we prefer. If he ran a 4-3 at his pro day but a 4-4 at the combine, we're taking the 210 or whatever number we prefer. If he ran a 4-3 at his pro day, but a 4-4 at the combine, we're taking the 4-3. They trust their scouts and their stopwatches more than they do the laser times and those things. It's why, and you'll hear Mike Mayock bring this up as well, the GM of the Las Vegas Raiders, we had Damon Arnett as a low 4-4s guy. Oh, interesting. Well, that's why you probably drafted him higher than everybody else would. And I think that's, again, they're important for that reason. You know, 4-3-8, you know, you saw Albert Breer tweet out that some scouts had Jamar Chase at a 4-3-6, a little quicker stopwatch.

That might be a Bengals scout. Who knows? But I do think that it's important to bring these numbers into consideration because the teams and the actual decision makers that draft these players take these numbers into massive consideration, take these pro day performances into massive consideration. It's why GMs and head coaches and all 32 teams are represented at pretty much every single Blue Blood Pro Day. It's because they matter. While fans and some media want to throw these numbers out the window because they're juiced, I think it'd be foolish because these are going

to heavily impact who gets drafted where. Well, what's helpful about the combine from a media perspective is just that you have kind of this static environment where you know exactly what everyone's dealing with and they're all going through the same circumstances. With the pro days, it feels different. It feels like, you know, you're at your home place. And I mean, they're trying to use the laser timing and stuff, but everybody's thumb is going to be different. And so when the numbers get out there, they're texted from somebody there to some media person who then tweets it out. And it's like, we don't need that process for the combine because I could just watch it. And it was also interesting with the combine because I think guys were nervous. It was a big stage.

It was on NFL Network. And I felt like sometimes guys just choked at the combine. You're like, man, if you're choking running a 40-yard dash or something or a three-cone, like, are you going to be okay playing in front of 70,000 people? And then I kind of, you know, circle back to a lot of these are just for guys to confirm what you already thought. And then other guys who have those bad pro days sort of confirm that, oh, okay, all right, he might look a little faster on tape, but a 4-9 safety, I mean, that's a defensive tackle.

Like, that's just not going to play in the NFL. 100%. And I think the other thing to take into consideration as well is in the past, pro days were an afterthought because so many of these times and measurements were collected at the combine. And then pro day figures are being reported by schools, not by scouts. Now, all 32 teams are represented at pretty much every single pro day. And these numbers that you're seeing Albert Breer, Ian Rappaport, Adam Schefter, or anyone tweet out, these official numbers are coming from scouts. They're not from LSU.

You saw Louisville tweet out 4-3-5 for 2-2 Atwell, but scouts had them at 4-4-5. That's the difference. You know, scouts and those stopwatches are what matter, not necessarily what the school actually clocks 2-2 out or whatever it may be. So I do think that, again, while it's fun to just throw these out the window and pretend that they're Jews, does LSU

do their verticals on a trampoline? All that stuff is funny. This matters. This is what's going to dictate who goes, you know, who's the first receiver off the board. This is what's going to dictate where teams go in the draft. So I don't think you should completely throw them out. Factor in some levels of margin of error, like a 3% margin of error, and make sure that the outliers, you are well aware of them. Justin Hilliard should have been better athletically. Paris Ford should have been better athletically.

Pete Werner really blew it up at the pro day. Go back to the tape and watch what he did at Ohio State. So I think a lot of that stuff matters. Yeah, I also wonder about the effect of some guys who spent a lot of time on this because they weren't playing many football games. I mean, like Jamar Chase, it just didn't play. So he had all this time to focus on making sure that he jumped as high as possible and his body is not as worn down as it would be. Same for someone like Rashawn Slater. So yeah, I think you can do these adjustments manually and just kind of get what you needed out of it and from another perspective of like fans it's cool to just hype these guys up and like you said kind of learn about them as opposed to

drinking out of a water hose but kind of as a as a slow burn where somebody gets their day when it comes to the Vikings everyone is is losing it here, Austin, because of the offensive line situation. And the Vikings have drafted high offensive linemen the last three drafts. Do you think that they would do it again? Or would the class justify it to do it again with someone like Rashawn Slater, should he get there? Absolutely. I think the Minnesota Vikings could feel comfortable locking into either this offensive tackle or edge defender class.

You know, you look at, I talk about it a ton on the podcast, I'm sure you're aware, is that when you're spending top 50, top 75 picks, you need to get positions of high value. And that doesn't always have to mean on-field positional value. I know a lot of fans and media can even get frustrated with positional value on the football field, running backs not mattering as much as QBs and those things. Throw that out the window. How much do these guys get paid on the open market?

The second highest paid position in the NFL on the open market is pass rusher. After that, it's offensive tackle. Go get those guys on cost-controlled rookie contracts with your top 50 picks. So that way you don't have to sign, you know, a Daniel Hunter to a monster contract or a Trey Hendrickson to a monster contract. Leonard Floyd is making close to $16 million a year, and you wouldn't even say he's top half in his position. That's why you go and draft these guys high in the draft. That's why I do think that at 14, you're thinking about Rashawn Slater.

You're thinking about Christian Derusaw. I could see them falling in love with some of these analytical darlings like a Sam Cosme. That would be a reach. Maybe you want to go Derusaw over Cosme. You're going to want to go Slater over Cosme, but they could lock into him because of the athletic profile. And then for pass rusher, I've said, you know, Mike has said this, and I'm going to stick to this quote as well. You don't necessarily want to be the first team to draft a pass rusher in this class because it's very difficult to know or right now completely understand who's

going to be the best. Quiddie Paye has freaky tools. Jalen Phillips, freaky tools. Jason Owe might be the freakiest player in this class. Which one's going to be the best. Quiddy Paye has freaky tools. Jalen Phillips, freaky tools. Jason Owe might be the freakiest player in this class. Which one's going to be the best in the NFL? A lot of that's going to come down to development. Development as a person, development from maturity level, if you're looking at guys like Micah Parsons even, and then also like development as a pass rusher. You know, Gregor Rousseau, not even the athlete that people thought he'd be,

but he's long, he's tall, has only played one year in college football, redshirt freshman season, that's it. He didn't even play edge. Like they had him playing largely over position where he kicked inside. So taking a Quidipe or Jason Owe at 14, I think is possible, but I think maybe they prefer going after a Slater or Derrissaw if they do fall to 14. Okay, I want to get into a little more detail on these guys

for some scout logistics, scouting reports. It's good to have sponsors. Austin, Rashawn Slater is a guy that I think really did his work at the pro day to solidify that he's the type of athlete that can play left tackle. At least that's the impression that I got. But was there any sort of question, or let me put it a different way. Like how big is the gap between him and Pené Sewell? Because I felt like after his pro day, there was a lot of hype about him,

but we are talking about a Northwestern guy who did not play this last year. I do think that I see it as a bigger gap than some other evaluators do. And I think being aware of that, I think it would be tough to me to say that there's a massive gap. I think knowing that Daniel Jeremiah, Mel Kiper Jr., Lance Zierlein all see a kind of smaller gap between Sewell and Slater, I think it'd be smart for me to say and have that awareness that maybe it is smaller than how I perceive it. I still see Sewell as the better offensive tackle prospect.

However, I do get the argument that Rashawn Slater might be the better offensive line prospect because he has that multi-positional vers versatility can come and kick inside the guard and play tackle at a very high level. Like his floor is like an all pro guard. You know, I think that's where some people are saying, I would love to play him at tackle first. Obviously it's a more valuable position, but Slater, his biggest draw technique, you know, I think Bucky Brooks on the two point drafts podcast I run said he's a

technical marvel, which I would agree with. And also feet. And if you got good technique and you've got good feet, you're going to be very good in the NFL, specifically at offensive tackle. Where he lacks is obviously experience, didn't play in 2020, and obviously I think there's some length concerns there and also some play strength concerns. You see bullies will beat him up. You know, you look at his 2019 season.

Chase Claypool didn't necessarily get to him, but A.J. Epinesa did. He isn't anywhere near the athlete that Chase Young is, but he's a bully. He can come inside and beat you with the bull rush. I think stronger edge defenders could give him fits at least early in his NFL career, but still, feat and technique, you're going to be a good offensive tackle in the NFL, at least good, at least good when you're looking at Rashawn Slater. And then if you kick him inside the guard, I think you're going to see him have a lot of success as well. I think the Chargers at 13 feels like a floor.

I can also see the Giants getting involved at 11, either playing him at tackle or even kicking him inside because they get Nate Solder back from, I think, the opt-out. But at 14, that would be a sprint the card in situation for Minnesota. I like Slater at 14. The value there is really good. And who isn't excited about getting Nate Solder back in New York? I think that they're holding a big event just for that. Now, so you mentioned about the kicking into guard,

and this is a thing that has frustrated Vikings fans for a long time, is just moving guys around, and specifically Ezra Cleveland. You draft him in the second round, then keep Riley Reif, and moving Ezra Cleveland inside to guard. He's struggled quite a bit in terms of pass protection at right guard, as you would expect for somebody who's never gone up against defensive tackles before. Is that something when you're looking at it like, hey, don't mess around too much, or there are some guys who could do it better than others? And if you have an opinion on Cleveland to guard, I'd love that. I think Ezra Cleveland could be a capable guard in the NFL. I think having high expectations for any rookie, regardless of position last year, would be a flawed way of

thinking, especially with the no preseason, abbreviated offseason, all those things. I also think that, you know, I think too much is maybe made of you're going to ruin a prospect by playing him at guard too early. I think it's not necessarily that. It's that if you play him at guard early, there's only so much time in the day. There's only so much time in practice. He's not going to develop a tackle. It's not necessarily that you're ruining a player. And oh man, he's now incapable of playing tackle. It's like, no, instead of spending that year

learning tackle, he spends it playing guard. And now you lose that year of development. You know, that's definitely what you lose. But now going into 2021, it depends where they want to play him. You can go back and look at and work with him on a football field, hopefully COVID vaccinated to actually have full-off season to work with Ezra Cleveland I still think he has capabilities at guard and tackle considering his athletic profile I mean you look at

Colton Miller of the Las Vegas Raiders his rookie season was dreadful and even his second season in the NFL wasn't great this past year ranked inside the top 10 in pass walking grade and is now making 18 million dollars per year as the top five paid offensive tackle in the NFL. And if you look at it from a roster building perspective, that Colton Miller pick might be the Raiders' best pick over the past five years. And it's not necessarily because they got a home run at the position. I wouldn't say Colton Miller is a top five, top 10 tackle in the NFL, but he's an average to above average starter that you drafted in the first round and are now paying on a decent contract that should be below market rate in the next two to three years that is good business getting a tackle like that is good business and all he was

coming out was a sloppy ucla offense tackle that played left and right in college but was a really good athlete i think ezra cleveland you can see a similar career arc for cleveland in the nfl yeah which is why i kind of felt like they should have just left him as a backup tackle and let him develop every day behind riley reef and brian o'Neill and watch those guys and work with those guys closely as opposed to being thrown to the wolves at guard because I just don't think he really profiles as a guard you know not as now he's not one of those like stocky little powerful guys that's you know blowing people off the ball or or does that like anchoring thing or whatever you know he really I think struggled with guys who were quick and powerful.

But, you know, that doesn't say, like you said, I mean, I remember reading a PFF study about offensive line, and some of these guys don't even peak until their third or fourth year, like DJ Humphries, who was terrible for his first couple seasons and then got better and better. That's again, too, why, if I could jump in there. Yeah, go ahead. You know, i hate i hate

when teams or fan bases bring up man we need an offensive lineman we have to fill it there it's like okay if you need an offensive lineman i get it but you're not always drafting offensive lineman to fill me because they're oftentimes not going to be good in year one or even year two tristan worse is a freaking outlier you know you know andrew Andrew Thomas was the first tackle off the board and did not play well last year. Almost as expected, it's very difficult to enter the NFL at a position that is so technical. You need to be a very technique-proficient player, and also you need to be a very good athlete. The best tackles in the NFL are either both or one or the other, and I think you have

to be both. It's just tough, man. Teams saying, oh, man, if we draft this guy and the drafted guard in the second, our offensive line is cured. It's like, no, it's not. Maybe in three years, if you develop them appropriately, it could be cured. But right now, those needs along the offensive line aren't getting filled anywhere in the draft.

The only tackle that I feel like comes in right out of the gate, or maybe the only two that have maybe, maybe Tristan Wurst-like impact is Sewell and Slater, but even that's a stretch. Hey, everybody. I want to tell you about our friends at SimBull. SimBull is a new sports marketplace where you can trade shares with professional teams like Stock. So as we jump fully into free agency season, you're going to want to get in on teams now before your team's stock rises.

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Right, and as you're saying, those guys usually go in the top ten, and there are no guarantees at all. And this is where, when Vikings fans tweet me, oh, we have to draft a tackle because Kirk is going to be running for his life, it's like, I got news for you. They had a top offensive lineman draft pick in the first two rounds the last three years, and he was still, well, he doesn't really run, but he was still just like under pressure a lot.

So that is not an instant solution. Would defensive end, though, be an instant solution? The guy who really stands out to me when I watch him with my untrained eye is Jalen Phillips, but he has the injury history. So I wonder, like, is this a draft where if you don't get quitty pay, you trade back and take someone like Joseph Asai or, you know, I don't know if Aziz Ojalary is a fit, but you take someone else that's going to be there in the late first. Absolutely. I mean, if you can find a team that's willing to trade up 214 when a lot of the big-name quarterbacks are off the board, so in my opinion, a dumb team, yeah, absolutely.

I think it's hard. Again, I think the NFL is getting smarter. I think fans are getting smarter. The NFL is getting smarter. Team offices are getting smarter. So to see a team come up to 14 for a non-quarterback, man, that's rare. I do think that teams are getting smarter than that. However, this is a fantastic class if you're looking at opposite tackle

and edge defender to trade back. Because after Sewell and Slater, there isn't, you know, an obvious number one player at those positions. You know, I would love to trade back and pick up the second or third best edge defender in this class because there's a very good chance he could be the best. You know, I do think that you trade back and you pick up a Jalen Phillips or you pick up a Jason Owe after May's safe pay and Russo go earlier.

That's good business. I think the Minnesota Vikings would be smart for that. And the same could be said for the offensive tackle class. Getting out of that pick and then maybe picking up a Cosme of Texas, Dylan Radins of North Dakota State, Alex Leatherwood of Alabama, Walker Little of Stanford, all these Kevin Jenkins, Oklahoma State. Going back and still getting a very good player at either offensive tackle or pass rusher is good business for Minnesota. Will they have a partner to do it? I'll say no right now, but I think it's hopeful thinking that I can get behind.

If Mac Jones was on the board at 14, what should the Vikings do? Should they just take him, or should they try to hold him for a king's ransom for Washington or somebody? If Matt Jones is on the board at 14, man, I do think that it would be smart to either take him or trade back because there's got to be a team that wants to come up, whether it's Chicago, Washington, even New England just to make sure they get him. I just don't think it makes a ton of sense with how valuable the quarterback position is and how some talented evalu they get him. I just don't think it makes a ton of sense with how valuable the quarterback position is and how some talented evaluators see him. Chris Sims, while some people like to make a joke of his rankings,

is a talented evaluator in his own right. Dale Jeremiah, I think, has Mac Jones as a top 15 player in this class. Mike Rainer of PFF has Mac Jones as a top 15 player in this class. Do not be overconfident in your evaluation. If you don't like Mac Jones, it doesn't matter. I do think that if he falls to 14, you need to be in a position to either take him or trade out of it and laugh at all the teams that didn't do that. You know, laugh at the Panthers, laugh at the Broncos, laugh at these teams ahead of them that didn't swing the bat on Mac Jones or didn't get

the value of having a good quarterback on the board when you're picking and all that comes with that. I just feel like there has to be somebody that drops. I mean, even though there are enough teams that need quarterbacks, it's that way every year with a lot of teams that need quarterbacks. And I mean, Washington last year, for example, they pass over Tua, they pass over Justin Herbert. Every year there are teams that we can see from the outside need quarterbacks, but they're like, oh, we really liked that prospect higher on our board, so we have to take him. And then there's somebody who just gets left out of the party. Like when there were five quarterback prospects a couple years ago, Lamar Jackson was the guy that got left out of the party, hilariously. But isn't Mac Jones the guy who gets left out,

or is it not? Or is it Trey Lance? because I know that our friend Eric Eager has a lot of questions statistically about Trey Lance is somebody who didn't throw that many passes didn't throw many passes from behind didn't have great accuracy on intermediate throws and things like that so there's always one guy which I feel like we're hyping too much and I don't know which it is I know it's not Trevor Lawrence though yeah I mean I do think that I think that I think, you know, you could see four quarterbacks come off the board for the first four picks. I think that is something that I'm getting behind the more and more we think about what the Bengals are not the Bengals, sorry, what the Jacksonville Jaguars jets and Niners are going to do. You know, the first three are

going to be quarterbacks. The San Francisco 49ers do not make that trade up to three on the same day as Zach Wilson's pro day. If they don't know the Jets are locking into Zach Wilson at number two, if they don't know who's coming off the board at one and two. So there you already have the San Francisco 49ers, obviously taking a quarterback. You don't trade two first round picks to go get a Kyle Pitts or Jamar Chase. You're going to get a quarterback. And then the wild card here is the Atlanta Falcons.

Do the Atlanta Falcons take a quarterback of the future? I think you still see some analysts thinking about that, or do they trade back to the highest bidder? It's not going to be Carolina in division. Could be Denver at nine. Could be New England at 15. Or maybe even a deeper team like the football team at 19 or the Bears at 20. We'll see.

If Atlanta says, no, we want Kyle Pitts, the wingspan, we want it. We're going to get Kyle Pitts. We need him or Jamar Chase, whatever. Then you look at the Bengals, who have a ton of holes, offensively and defensively. I think a team would be primed. And then you have the Carolina Panthers reenter the conversation. The Carolina Panthers at eight could reenter the conversation to come up to five and go grab their favorite quarterback.

I think the party is the first four picks. Falling outside the party, I don't see Mac Jones lasting the 14. I think he's a better prospect than that. And honestly, this league needs quarterbacks too much to let him fall that far. Yeah, you're right. This could be the year where it doesn't happen, where that guy doesn't end up falling. And I also think that the fact that Deshaun Watson's situation is really muddying the waters there. If Carolina or Denver was holding out for Deshaun Watson, which it looked like before all of these reports came out and lawsuits were filed and everything,

Denver looked like kind of the leader a little bit that he looked at them as a team he'd want to go to. And then all of a sudden now they're out. And I don't think that they can go forward with a very good roster with somebody like Drew Locke. You're just wasting a year of all these good playmakers and a good defense with Vic Fangio. So you're probably right that that scenario doesn't happen. It does happen in the PFF mock draft simulator all the time where I have to decide, are we going to take Mac Jones or not?

One thing I wanted to ask you about, too, was, you know, you mentioned all those guys like Joseph Asai and Walker Little and these good prospects who will be there at the end of the first and into the second. How much does it hurt that the Vikings don't have a second because they traded it for Yannick Ngakwe and also like how how desperate should they be to get back in the second like I look at the second round as sort of 1A these days because I feel like there's just more good prospects and the Vikings have had a lot of success I know that the statistically trading up to get into the second round might not be the best play, but I also feel like the Vikings need holes plugged. They still need a lot of players at a lot of positions. I think it is important for them to try to get into the second.

Absolutely. I mean, especially when you think about the value they got in return for Yannick Ngakwe. I think looking back on that trade, you're not super thrilled with that result. And also, I think any team without a second round pick, any team with a low volume of top 50, top 60 picks is going to be a big concern, and that's with every class. And again, it comes back to getting talented players that can start for your football team on cost-controlled rookie contracts. That is massive. When you're trying to build a juggernaut, you need to hit on those picks so that

way you are not paying talented starters second-contract, third-cont contract money. Because then you get into a situation like the Chiefs where you have to cut two starting offensive tackles and you have needs everywhere because you're paying a lot of money to Mahomes, a lot of money to Kelsey, a lot of money to Hill, Frank Clark, Chris Jones. And eventually it's like, okay, we have a lot of holes because we haven't drafted all that well outside of that. We need to go make a play.

Another example is the New England Patriots, a team that hasn't drafted well over the past five years. And now they break the bank in Francie, spend over $135 million in the offseason, second most all time, because they're not going to be putting any second contracts out there. They haven't drafted well. There's no one on that football team, maybe outside of Isaiah Wynn, that's been drafted over the past five years that you're obviously going to give a second contract. So you need to draft well, and that starts with the top 60 picks. It hurts the Vikings like it hurts other teams. And the Patriots offered me a five-year deal as well to go play.

You love to see that. Yeah, you do love to see it. But I wouldn't want to live near Boston. Anyway, let me finish with this. This was a Twitter poll that just, you know, a friend of the show had out. And I want to ask you about it. If the Vikings had these two options to take either Sean Slater or to trade back well call that one option for offensive line other option is Devante

Smith which way do you go interesting Devante Smith is very interesting and I think I like Smith okay I'll say this I like Smith as a prospect more than I like Slater. He's higher on my board. I view him better. However, you do start to think about the Slater and the position he plays, how it's a lot more highly paid than wide receiver. You know what? I'm going Devontae Smith. I don't care.

I'm going to go Devontae Smith, pair him up with Justin Jefferson, and we're going to score more points than other people. We're going to get the ball out quick. You know, Kirk Cousins is going to rank inside the top five in average time to throw in terms of getting it out quickly because we're going to get the ball out quick. You know, Kirk Cousins is going to rank inside the top five in average time to throw in terms of getting it out quickly because we're going to have so many receivers open and we're going to look to feel needs along the offensive line either later in the draft via trade.

More veterans available to do something along those lines. You don't pass on a Smith at 14. I'm sorry, you don't pass on a Smith at 14. He's the number eight or number nine prospect on PFS board right now. Comfortably wide receiver three behind Jamar Chase and Jalen Waddell, but still a very good prospect, one of which that helps their offense significantly, maybe more so than Slater at 14. The Vikings wide receiver three right now is Chad Beebe still. We talked a year ago or something, and I said, do you know who the

Vikings wide receiver three is? And B.C. Johnson was a good guess, and he fell down to number four. But, I mean, think about the upgrade if Devontae Smith is even good in his first year. And, yeah, it's always funny to me when a fan base that had three deep, Randy Moss, Jake Reed, and Chris Carter, is like, I don't know about another receiver. I'm not sure. So it's always funny. Austin Gale, two-for-one draft podcast is an absolute must-listen,

not just for the Mike Renner dating stories, but also for the incredible analysis. And I am looking forward to the international mailbag when that does finally happen. I'm going to have to figure out how, I don't know, like have we all been getting comments from overseas and we just can't see them? It's wild.

So if you go to Chartable, which is another like podcast metrics platform, it'll show you all the reviews you get from international. We have like over 300, 400 reviews from like various parts around the world. And I just committed to this on the podcast. We were very behind in a mailbag on mailbag stuff. We have like I think over 120, 140 unanswered mailbag questions the Wednesday before the draft. Any question that wasn't answered will be answered. And whether that's a 10-hour live show, I don't know. We will find out, but we're going to get to them as soon as we can. I know.

This has been the great drama of me listening to it beyond, like, will Renner get dates is just like, are these guys ever going to finish all of these questions? It's tough, man. It's so tough. It is a grind, but it's draft season. You've got to kick into high gear. So, Austin Gale,

an absolute must follow the two for one draft podcast and your work in the draft guide is incredible and something that I have opened through all of draft season. So you do great work, man. It was great to catch up with you again. Of course. Thank you. Hey everyone. I want to tell you about our friends. It's Scout Logistics. And I really do mean it when I say friends, they are fans of Purple Insider over at Scout Logistics. And since they reached out wanting to support this show, I want to tell you about what they do. Scout Logistics is just-in-time transportation for full tractor-trailer loads. And if you're wondering what that means exactly, well, if you own or work for a company that needs shipping solutions, they are the preferred carrier of Fortune 500 companies across North America,

and we have quite a few of those in Minnesota, right? They can ship perishable, non-perishable, FTL or LTL, and they have on-time delivery rate of over 99%. So if you're like them and you enjoy the show and you have shipping needs, check out scoutlogistics.com or call 855-217-2688 extension 232 to connect with them directly to find out how Scout Logistics can minimize risk and overperform and go the extra mile for your company. Okay, just wanted to bring you guys Mike Zimmer's press conference, the first where he's had a chance to talk about the offseason moves.

So he got into Patrick Peterson, Delvin Tomlinson, Daniil Hunter, the offensive line, kind of checked all the boxes of the things we've been wanting to ask Mike Zimmer. So here is his press conference, and of course we'll be talking about some of the things he said for the rest of the week. So enjoy. And thanks for listening. And Mike,

obviously, uh, they haven't got to the draft yet, but how do you think you're going to replace, uh, Riley reef? Well, we've got,

you know, at this point, you know, we got Rashad Hill back. We got Udo back. We got O'Neill back. We got Cleveland. So,

um, you know, we're, we'll, we'll be able to take care of those situations. All those guys are good players. And so we'll, we'll continue to figure it out and go from there. Mike, when it comes to Patrick Peterson, what was your, I guess,

familiarity with him outside of watching from afar? I mean, did you have some familiarity with him before and what do you see him bringing to the defense? afar? I mean, did you have some familiarity with him before and what do you see him bringing to the defense? No, I really didn't have anything other than I knew about him as a player. You know, obviously I watched him on tape from this past year, but, you know, it was kind of nice. You know, he was trying to decide where he wanted to go, and he asked his agent to call me here, and so, you know, and then I called him to talk to him about, you know, what he's looking for, and some of those things, and so, you know, it was able to work out, like I think Rick said,

we got it done in about five hours, you know, he was in the Bahamas with his family. And, you know, so it was honestly probably a really lucky break that we were able to do that. But he kind of initiated wanting to come here, and so I thought that was really important as well. And then, you know, I anticipate him playing corner. That's what he is. He's always been a great corner.

You know, I think he wants to continue to get better. I know he wants to continue to play longer, and we're hopeful that we can help him to do that. Mike, personally, how much did having a defense not up to your standards last year push you here this offseason and is driving you now? Well, I'll tell you, Joe, you know, I'm not used to that level of performance from one of our groups. And so, honestly, we've had some of the best, you know,

it's crazy because, you know, all the coaches are in the building here now, but we've had some of the best meetings that I've had in eight years, probably. I mean, we're dissecting every little thing that we do, going through it, like I said before, going through everything with a fine-tooth comb. I've been really impressed with the coaches that are in there, but also just, you know, the offense has changed so much in the last four or five years. You know, it's time that we need to do some things differently

and change and adapt. And so I've been really – I'm actually really excited. I can't wait to get back on the field with the players and get them going. Mike, did the defensive priorities that you had kind of outweigh everything else? And I'm wondering, just how much resources, how much money was spent and allocated towards the defense. How do you balance that out, still having several holes to fill on the offensive side of the ball?

Yeah, well, you know, our offense has been pretty darn good. You know, they're sixth in the league last year. We do have some holes that we'll fill, but we've still got time to do that. There's still a lot of players out there right now, and there'll be some in the league last year. We do have some holes that we'll fill, but we've still got time to do that. There's still a lot of players out there right now, and there'll be some in the draft. But, yeah, I mean, when we looked at, you know, the defense after the season evaluated, you know, it was pretty barren in there,

and so we had to address that. And, you know, honestly, at the end of the season, I was kind of down in the dumps when I kept looking at the depth chart and knowing what kind of salary cap space we had. And so, you know, like I said, Rob's done an – and Rick have done an unbelievable job doing that. And they've got me rejuvenated with the guys that they've brought in and the players that they've been to help. And then you've got guys like Anthony Barr who, you know, he decides to restructure his contract because he wants to be here. You've got guys like Stephen Weatherly and McKenzie and, you know,

a lot of these other guys that really want to be here and Patrick Peterson. And so, you know, those kind of things get me excited. Yeah, Mike, you talked about making it. You said it was time for you to make changes. I know you can't give details, but in general, are these tweaks? Are these big changes? And what made you finally realize that? Well, you know, number one thing that we want to do on defense is we want to play fast.

We want to play physical. You know, we one thing that we want to do on defense is we want to play fast. We want to play physical. You know, we don't want to be thinking. And the offenses lately have been getting us to think because we've had to adjust to here and adjust there and do this and do that. And, you know, some of these things we've talked about, it's just too hard to implement during the season. So, you know, some of it is big change and some of it is minor tweaks. But the thing I've been impressed with, and I told coaches this today, you know, these meetings that we've had, if we were in 12 different cities and doing this on a Zoom meeting, we couldn't get this done.

We're sitting in a room. We're watching tape together. We're going over everything. We get on the blackboard, or the whiteboard now, and talk about, okay, if they do this, how do we do this? What if they line up and do this? All the different scenarios that are going through our minds that we don't have to try to get done in three days getting ready for a game.

Mike, you talked about Dalvin Tomlinson earlier. What do you like specifically about, you know, the potential of pairing him next to Michael Pierce and having two, you know, pretty big bodies in the interior of that defensive line? Well, I think Barr and Kendricks will like it even more because they'll have two big guys, two space eaters that have athletic abilities that can win on one-on-ones, hold the double teams for those two guys. And, you know, Kendricks is another guy back that we missed the last five ballgames, too.

So, you know, we've added, you know, Hunter, Pierce, Barr, who missed the whole year, Tomlinson, Peterson. I mean, it's going to look completely different when we get out there, and I'm excited about the whole crew. But those two guys specifically, you know, they're both great guys. They're both really, really good run players who can push the pocket, and I think that's going to help not only Hunter and Barr and, you know, Wanham and Weatherly, some of these other guys we have. Mike, what did you like best about Xavier Woods and how he will compliment Harrison and how he'll fill the shoes there?

Well, you know, Don, you know, I talked to him on the phone before he signed, obviously, and I just told him that this is going to be a good situation for him here. The things that we do are things that he's done before. Aries, how we can

use him in addition to Harrison, but not only using him in those areas. And, you know, I watched all the tapes on him. I think he's got another level to go to, and I think he's also got a chip on his shoulder as well. And, you know, so I like that about guys. You know, I like bringing in guys when other people say they're probably not good enough somewhere else. Kind of that just sparked one thing.

And I have two other things I wanted to ask. Just do you envision, because I played him so much in the box last year in Dallas, do you envision maybe, you know, taking him away from that role, letting him play more of that free safety role, Woods that is. And then with McKenzie, now that obviously he comes back, he's known your defense, he was the nickel. Could that give you an opportunity to try Jeff Gladney out somewhere else

or give you the flexibility to move him around? Yeah, well, first of all, talking about Woods, you know, Carl Scott had him in college, so he knows him very, very well. So that's a positive. He wasn't always in the box. He played deep. He played some robbery. He played a lot of different,

different places for him. So he has the versatility to do all those things. Number one. And you know, like today we're sitting in a meeting room and right now we, we just have, you know, like, like, like I said, my dad used to do, he used to put up when he used to draw an E and an X and an X and an X, you know, or a V for the defensive lineman and Xs. So right now these guys are just Xs. And we're trying to figure out where we can use each one of these guys. You know, what can Gladney do different?

We've talked about things with him. What can McKenzie do? We've talked about things with him. You know, what if we decide to play more DBs? I mean, there's so many options that we have that right now they're just about things with him. You know, what if we decide to play more DBs? I mean, there's so many options that we have that right now they're just puzzle pieces, and we're just trying to fit them in the best we can, and it might be a lot of different packages. Yeah, Mike, kind of building off of that,

but going back to the offensive line with Ezra, you know, he played right guard last year. He played left tackle at Boise. You know, do you have to wait and see what you get in the draft of where you want him to play? Or, you know, right now, is he just one of those pieces of the puzzle on the offensive line? Yeah, well, right now he's right guard. But all those things can change depending on what happens in the rest of the way in free agency and what else happens in the draft.

You know, we don't know what's going to happen in those places. And obviously, you know, there's other positions that we can draft. I'm sure at some point, you know, we're going to try and address all those things. But I think what we've done in free agency so far has allowed us to be able to take the best player available wherever he is. Mike, wondering what you're going to say about the backup quarterback situation. Is there interest in potentially re-signing Mannion? Might you look toward one of the young guys, Browning or Stanley,

or do you think you might look for someone in the draft? Well, all those are options. You know, we really like Browning and Stanley. You know, Stanley's a big, strong-armed kid. You know, Browning's been great the two years that he's been here. Sean's been outstanding in the room. So, you know, again, without saying, hey, we're going to do this or that, there's a lot of options there, I believe. All right.

Mark, followed by Courtney. Yeah, Mike, I was wondering if you've had some time now to see Clint in action. You're talking about all the time you guys have spent together. When you're observing him, what are your thoughts? And is he ready for this? Oh, yeah, he's ready for it. You know, somebody was asking me about that today. Clint is a, you know, he's a lot like how Kevin was when he was here. He's very detailed.

He's very, you know, he brings up the subject that they want to discuss. He'll have his opinion. He'll listen to the other guys' opinions in the room and then kind of go from there. So he's done a good job. You know, everybody's going to wonder what it's going to be like when you're a first-time play caller. But at the end of the day, every one of us was always a first-time play caller at 128. Mike, where do you think Stan with Daniil Hunter right now? Do you anticipate he's going to be part of the off-season program?

And I guess where is he at with his physical, the rehab part? Well, I know he's talked to Andre. I have not talked to him. He's been sending back videos of his workouts, and, you know, they're very, very impressive. So we're excited to get him back on the field. You know, he's a great team guy. He's a terrific player,

and he's one of the best people that I've been around in professional football. Mike, how do you address or maybe just don't change anything with now the 17th game and how some of the guys view it? Well, I was wondering if the coaches are going to get paid more now too, but I guess that's out. No. You know, Dawn, I really haven't thought about it, to be honest with you. I know that we're going to L.A., I guess it is now,

and so it's another West Coast game. I don't know if I'll put it at the end of the year or the beginning of the year or middle or whatever. So it's just something else they tell us to do, and we do it like good soldiers. Reporters are getting paid more for 17 games, actually, Mike. That's good. I think that's great. Everybody should.

When you talked about Delvin Tomlinson and his character, it seemed like kind of the first team that you had, the way you built it up, the veteran players were able to have a big influence on the younger players like Terrence Newman with Xavier Rhodes. I guess when you bring in Tomlinson, when you bring in Peterson with still a lot of young players around, is that sort of the hope or the expectation? Or just like what value can they bring beyond just sort of the X's and O's?

Well, I do think every guy's different. You know, some guys, you know, like Harrison Smith, he's going to help the players, but he's going to do his own thing. He doesn't want to be, you know, and so I don't want these guys to be someone that they're not. If they want to help them and do all those things or lead by example, that's great too. You know, I think it'll be great for Watts. He's been in here working out. Wanham's been in here working out.

You know, some of these younger defensive linemen have been in here and they're doing. So I think it'll be big for those guys to have other good players around them, and it'll help us with depth and rotations and everything else. Yeah, Coach, wondering if you have any idea at this point or can speculate on what the offseason drills might be like. I mean, how much you think will be virtual and how optimistic are you that you guys would be able to get some work done on the field? Yeah, I really don't know.

We finally got an email today about the offseason. I'm hopeful that we are able to get out on the field. I think it's really important, especially not for just the young players, for the new players, for the coaches. You know, it just helps with the process of trying to build a football team, in my opinion. So I really don't know. And, again, we'll just do what they tell us to do.

Thank you. Great.