Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - PFF's Anthony Treash lays out the path for a Vikings rebuild

Episode Date: January 21, 2022

Matthew Coller and Sam Ekstrom get together with Anthony Treash to talk about whether the Vikings have a favorable job and what approach the next GM should take, whether it's a short-term rebuild or full tear-down. Anthony wonders if the next wave of QBs will be ready to play in 2022 and whether the Vikings should hang with Kirk Cousins for another year. He breaks down how some of the playoff teams have laid out the path for the Vikings and who's going to win this weekend. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, welcome to another Friday Roundtable. Purple Insider Matthew Collar here along with Sam Ekstrom. And our Friday Roundtable guest this time around is Anthony Tresh from Pro Football Focus. Anthony, glad to have you. Roundtable style for the first time. Welcome. I know. Thank you guys for having me on.

I saw this on my calendar today and I was like, I was looking forward to it this week just because right now Minnesota is in an interesting spot and I was looking forward to talking to with about it with you guys well I want to run through some of the playoff teams and what you think the Vikings can kind of take away from them but let me just get your overall assessment to start of the job because we've been talking here about how it looks like a very attractive job to a general manager and a head coach as a general manager you get to pick what you want to do with your quarterback. You get Justin Jefferson. As a head coach, you can pair yourself with the general manager.

It's not a situation where you're sort of forced into the shotgun marriage or something like that. But when you look at the Vikings job from your perspective, looking at all of them, how do you assess it with the strengths and weaknesses versus some of the other jobs that are available? Yeah. I mean, you can, I'm, it was, so I wrote an article when all the black Monday stuff happened a few days after, you know, ranking all the head coaching spots. I was looking at him. I was like, you could theoretically make a case for every single spot to, you know, be a good spot to land at. I mean, you look at Jacksonville,

you have Trevor Lawrence, you have all these assets, um, you know, be a good spot to land at. I mean, you look at Jacksonville, you have Trevor Lawrence, you have all these assets. You know, Chicago, you have Justin Fields and, you know, just the thought of turning around that franchise that's been dead in the water for a long time. That's appealing. Of course, you have the big market, New York. And then with Minnesota, I mean, they're actually been a competitive team as of late and like for all the reasons that you mentioned, right? And, you know, I think the biggest thing for me, why I think I would be a little bit turned off is just you with the cap space issue. I mean, they are in a good spot in a sense where with this quarterback class,

you know, if they wanted to get rid of Kirk cousins and see if they could and go ahead and attack with one of these quarterbacks, none of these quarterbacks are ready. I mean, they're going to have to have, you know, a bridge quarterback there. And that's what Kirk's going to have to be for this season. If that's what they want them to be, you know, at least. So, I mean, they're going to have to have, you know, a bridge quarterback there. And that's what Kirk's going to have to be for this season, if that's what they want him to be, you know, at least. So, I mean, there is pros and cons. Justin Jefferson, of course, top five wide receiver.

I think he's going to be right there with his old teammate, Jamar Chase's, you know, routine top five finishing wide receiver. I mean, what he's done producing elite PFF grades his first two years. I mean, that's unprecedented. I mean, that's really unheard of. Very few receivers have done. So there's definitely some, you know, reasons to be, you know, kind of bullish, you know, with this Vikings job. But, you know, there are some weak spots in the roster. And, of course, the secondary, you know, that's one of them.

So I'm very curious to see kind of which direction they really go after, you know, as far as, you know, who they're going to hire, but also what their plan of action is going to be this offseason. Yeah. And I'd be curious to get your take too, Anthony, just on the quarterback conundrum, whether you see Cousins' presence sort of as a pro for the next regime, as a con for the next regime, and what you would do with a $45 million albatross for this final year of his deal. Yeah. you would do with a $45 million albatross for this final year of his deal? Yeah, I mean, I definitely think that, you know, I think Kirk Cousins is a little bit of an enigma. And it's absolutely crazy to see because there's some people that are very pro-Kirk Cousins,

some people that are very not pro-Kirk Cousins. You know, I think for this situation that they're in, you know, with the quarterback class that they have this year, I think they're fine with keeping him for another year. I mean, they're going to have to. And I think, you know, Kirk Cousins is a good quarterback. You know, I'm not, I'm not going to sit here and say he's the worst quarterback in the NFL. He is a good quarterback. The problem is, is that he is very, very limited, right? I mean, he just, it really is not much of a risk taker. I mean, I remember on Sunday night football this past year, helping out with some stuff with NBC. I can't remember, I forget who they were playing. past year helping out with some stuff with NBC. I can't remember. I forget who they were playing.

But, you know, it was just Kirk Cousins' check down city, right? I mean, there was just no risk taking. It was a very anemic offense. And you look at his BFF grade, I mean, it's pretty high. It's in the mid 80s, if I recall correctly, top 10 at the position. Looks very good. But then you look at their efficiency and it just really isn't there. And that's kind of a result of the lack of risk taking right you're not going to get a whole lot of negatives that you're not going to go out and take some risks outfield it's going to bring that down so that's kind of padded his stats to hurt the overall team um they really don't have a choice i mean like like we've been saying with this upcoming year and i think you know if i had

to say of course just ride with kirk cousins for a year um you know, if I had to say, of course, just ride with Kirk Cousins for a year, you know, take a quarterback with that 12th pick that they have in this upcoming draft. And just knowing that there is a very good chance that this draft pick is not going to hit because these quarterbacks, you know, I think there's a reason with a handful of them to be kind of, you know, optimistic and reason to think that they could be an NFL starting quarterback, a franchise guy. But every single one of them have reasons to kind of want to be cautious with and stay away from so you know they're in an interesting spot in that regard so I think that's just kind of the the way they're gonna have to do it well tell me if you think that it's a better option or or not to trade Kirk Cousins and get another draft pick and I'm not sure what that will be I mean I think that there will be quarterback desperate teams if they were willing to pay a second for Sam Darnold, that they should be willing to pay a first for her cousins. But you know, the landscape is different every single year, but there's always quarterback desperate teams to get another draft pick and then bring in someone as a bridge

quarterback, like a Ryan Fitzpatrick or like a Marcus Mariota, for example. I mean, I was looking at Marcus Mariota by some of the numbers and you look at what he did in Tennessee. And I know that they're not as good passing wise as Kirk Cousins, but when you factor in his running ability to the results were kind of the same. Like I looked at, I know QBR is not a perfect stat. The ESPN invented stat knows that is, but his QBRs for his three years, starting with Tennessee, that were his best years were basically the same as Kirk's because yeah, he's not as accurate as a passer, but he is a better runner and maybe a little more gutsy than Kirk Cousins is.

I feel like ripping off the bandaid, but also bringing in a draft pick as opposed to just letting the contract run out and then bringing in someone else who could do a lot of the similar things, but at least might be a little more, a little more fresh for Vikings fans who have just run the course with a quarterback who's been here for four years and they haven't accomplished anything. I feel like that's a, probably a better option, even if it's not the,

I mean, it's so much easier to say than do is the GM. Hey, just trade them away. Just sign this other guy. It's fine. I do this on Madden all the time, but I feel like if we were doing fantasy land,

sort of what is the ideal situation? I, I kind of think that that might be better. Yeah, 100%. It's just like you said, is it too much of a fantasy or is it possible? Would another team be willing to trade for Kirk Cousins? I'm not so sure. And it's funny you bring up Marcus Mariota. I mean, I really genuinely think that he's one of the 32 best quarterbacks in the NFL. He should have been started for a team, right? I mean, no slight to what was going on with Houston, with Davis Mills and when Tyra Taylor was playing. But he's better than what they had. Right. I mean, he's he was better than what New York dealt with. Right. I mean, he should have been starting for a team this past year. I'm not saying he's a top 10 quarterback by any means, but he's good enough to start and be that kind of guy. Now, if they are able to trade Kirk Cousins, let's say, you know, hypothetically speaking, they can do that. I would be on board if, you know, if I were a Vikings fan, which is saying, you know,

the heck with the bridge quarterback, let's take a swing on a quarterback with this 12th pick. Let's throw them out in the fire. Let's see what we got. If it doesn't work out, then we have some ammo here. We're in a, probably not going to be a good team if it's not going to work out. And then you have Bryce Young sitting atop with the 2023 boards, the Alabama quarterback who, while he may be small, he's got it in between the ears. He definitely displayed that as a true sophomore this past season, which is really, really rare to see.

I mean, and not just at the college level for an underclassman, but even at the NFL level, the way he was kind of processing defenses, it was special to see. So that's where I would be. That's the camp I would be in and just kind of throw away the bridge quarterback and just throw someone out in the fire and just keep throwing darts until you finally hit on them. So from what you've said here, Anthony,

it doesn't sound like you're bullish on this class. And I'm looking at the PFF big board. I know the big board doesn't translate necessarily to where guys get picked, but the highest quarterback that PFF has is Sam Howell at number 16. Great first name. I don't know how you could go wrong with a pick like that. But then Desmond Ritter, you've got Matt Corral. And then let's see, who is your fourth one?

I pick it. I think, yeah, Kenny Pickett, then Carson Strong. So I guess Matthew and I are still in the opinion forming stage of our, of our draft opinions. We're just like transitioning out of the regular season here. Maybe you're a little farther down the road on this. Like, I guess of the five of those top five, and that didn't even include Willis, who I, I, I think is also somewhat highly regarded. Do you have any, any like January 20th opinions on, with the right to change your opinion later on like, you know, who you would go with if you were,

if you had all of them available at number 12? Yeah, I think as of right now, I would say there's only, there's five quarterbacks that I would even consider in the first round. And, you know, out of the six, you mentioned Kenny Pickett's not one of them, which is kind of the contrary opinion right now just because he had a big season. But I'm very concerned with the guy's physical tools. I mean, he held onto the ball for an extremely long time, very good pass protection. He held onto the ball, I think, on average like 3.2 seconds.

I mean, that's going to have to be about seven-tenths of a second slower in the NFL. He doesn't have the athleticism to compensate it. So that's what I'm concerned about. And I get like the whole hand size thing is an issue. But the dude really did struggle when he had to play in the rain all throughout his collegiate career that's why he wears two gloves there and it wouldn't matter in the dome but you know that is kind of a it's a football mindset but i mean i think that's something i would be concerned about um you know i think sam howell that's what i'd agree with the gift of draft board on the consensus overview i like sam how. I think this past year is kind of a, it's a tough evaluation just because the situation

he was in was horrible. I mean, the offensive line was bad. The play calling, I wasn't a big fan of until Longo's offense. It's a very college-esque offense. That's not even going to be remotely close to what he's running in the NFL. And he only had one wide receiver. I mean, Josh, Josh Downs, who I think is one of the best wide receivers in college football, but he was the only guy in defense that knew that.

And, I mean, it was pretty easy to pick up on, and that's why he had to end up running as much as he did. Still ended up producing an elite PFF grade. And what he had, what he did with Daz Newsome, Diami Brown, Javante Williams, Michael Carter on the team as the true freshman, true sophomore, that was a very special play from Sam Howell. I love his deep ball. I think it would be – he's going to have a little bit of a more of a learning curve um just because of the offense he was in and

just kind of it was schoolyard football he pretty much played this past year um you know matt corral i think i'm a little bit nervous about his ability to just because of the offense he was in at old miss i mean it's pretty you know quarterback friendly pretty simplistic a lot of rpos um but i i think he is accurate. I have seen some people say he's not accurate. I think he very much is an accurate quarterback, very timely. You know, big arm too, like Sam Howell. You know, and then after that, you have Desmond Ritter,

who honestly, I think when it's all said and done, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm saying he might be the top guy. I was very impressed with his progression this past season. I was not, you know, high on Desmond Ritter entering the year. I saw the tools, but the down-to-down consistency really was not there. He did have some bouts of inaccuracy this past year, but the deep ball was so much more improved. And the thing is, it was a little bit different from him

versus Matt Corral and Sam Howell. I mean, he was running pure passing concepts for Cincinnati, and he was doing it at a high level, even against Notre Dame and Indiana. Indiana kind of sucked this past year, but he still did it against Power 5 defenses. He showed he could do that. I think the Alabama game was just more of, I think, the offense as a whole as opposed to him. I was very just kind of disappointed in the play calling they did there. But, yeah, those are my thoughts.

I think Malik Willis, too, I think he's worth investing in just because of the what if. He's got a long ways to go not polished at all whatsoever but he's just yeah one of the best athletes at the quarterback position pff college has really ever seen from what he did as a as a runner on the ground and he's got a big arm too so you know those those four guys carson strong too he's just he's not a mobile guy um but man says some of the velocity he can put on some throws and what you can do from the pocket is special it's just what's he going to be able to do against NFL pass rush because he couldn't do it against mountain West pass rushers.

Um, you know, so I, those are kind of the big pros and the cons with, you know, those five quarterbacks that I think I would consider in the first round. But like I mentioned at the top, you know, there is a reason, a pretty notable reason with every single one to be kind of concerned about their ability to be a franchise quarterback. It has been asked to me. So I'll ask it to you. I don't think it's realistic, but it's been thrown out there. The ownership for the Vikings said, Hey, we're not going to rebuild. This is more of a retool or reload or reset or whatever R word you want to

use. But is there, is there a case to tank with this team? Is there a case to take it apart, trade all the things that aren't named Justin Jefferson, and try to draft number one or number two, number three in 2023? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if that the dream scenario that they can offload Kirk Cousins, that's when you just click the red button and say, let's go. You know, everybody but Justin Jefferson.

You can't trade him away. I mean, he is a very special wide receiver. He's been able to do. But, yeah, I think that option should be on the table. It's just all about, you know, can you get rid of Kirk Cousins? Because Kirk Cousins, like I said, he's a good quarterback, and he's not going to be one that's going to tank, right? I mean, even if the situation is bad, he's going to be good enough to win you some football games to get you

right where they are this year which is picking 12th overall and you know outside of last year's class that's not going to be a good enough spot to really get a franchise quarterback I think last year's class with him it was a kind of you know outlier in that sense so I think it should be on the table um you know just given the way their roster kind of looks at it, spotty and some starts, like I mentioned. Um, and so that's probably the way that I would be more interested in that I would kind of pursue. Um, you know, like you said, I don't know if they're actually going to go about that. I I'm kind of nervous that they might just kind of get stuck there in the middle for a few more years than they should. Folks, we've got an even better offer to tell you about from sodaodaStick. If you use

the promo code PURPLEINSIDER, one word, you can get 15% off your purchase. That's right, at SodaStick.com, your place for Minnesota sports-inspired apparel. You can get 15% off just by using the code PURPLEINSIDER. I've told you about all the great football designs, but they've added a few more, including the ax is back for Minnesota football fans. You can get that on a shirt, on a hat. And also Randy Moss is the goat,

the purple people eaters, bud grant designs for the old school fan. Plus the hockey and basketball teams are both actually exciting this year. And so to stick has you covered there as well. Go to soda stick that.com. That is S O T a S SodaStick.com that is S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com and use the code Purple Insider for 15% off. Yeah it's interesting because I think earlier in the episode we talked about the appeal of this job and part of the appeal is that you are

inheriting certain pieces that are talented and that might be a draw to a head coach who doesn't want to go about the tank like i don't i don't think a retread head coach someone who's kind of been down the road before like doug peterson who's won a super bowl probably doesn't want to sit through a tank right like like part of the sell to him is is that we have these pieces that allow us to win now. But as you allude to, that might be the best long term play. And as we've seen, sometimes you can come out of that fairly quickly if you make the right decisions. I guess I'd be curious in your mind, do you think you have to go offensive minded head coach in this day and age?

Because the Vikings are interviewing more defensive-minded guys than they are offensive-minded guys. A lot of people are upset at that. And I think I would definitely trend toward offensive-minded, but I also don't feel like I would want to limit myself if I were the interviewers. I guess if you're making the decisions, would it be no question in your mind that you need to have

an offensive-minded coach to pair up with your quarterback of the present and future? Yeah, that's definitely the way I'd be leaning towards. And I wouldn't say, you know, going into the process, I would say, you know, I'm definitely hiring an offensive mind, not even going to bother with defensive-minded candidates. But that would be definitely the obvious way that I would want to go just because, you know, even looking at the situation that, you know, they're really in, you know, they're probably going to have a young quarterback in there that they want to groom, you know, here pretty soon. And you kind of want that nice offensive-minded head coach to kind of help them progress and

get to that point. You know, you look at some of the defensive-minded head coaches we've had as of late, it just hasn't been really, you know, encouraging. Of course, you have Brandon Stelly with the Chargers, who I think is fine. I think he's a good head coach despite the controversy surrounding some of his, you know, decision-making. But that's just him following the numbers. And we support that here at PFF. But, you know, you look at what happened with Denver.

You know, you had Vic Vangio in there, who I think is a very good head coach. But, you know, he's not an offensive guy, right? He's a quarterback groomer um and you know he did kind of get the short end of the straw there just because he didn't have any quarterbacks there to really kind of you know help progress and the offense really struggled there so i think you know with getting a young you know quarterback in there you got to go offense i think that's the way to go um but then of course you might have some guys that you know kind of blow you away from a defensive minded perspective. You know, I'm very interested in, you know, the request to interview Raheem Morris.

I think he's a good candidate. I was kind of surprised he didn't get enough traction sooner. You know, I think what you did with, you know, the Rams have been very good, you know, just kind of sustaining, you know, really kind of switching up his entire coaching style. Right. Because this isn't the defense he runs. And, you know, Sean McVay wanted to keep that same structure, and he's kept that same structure. So I've been impressed with just the way he's been able to do it and just hearing some of the players talk about him, you know, just raving reviews. So there is certain situations where I think it could be a little bit different, but I would definitely lean offensive minded. And, you know, just looking at some of the guys that they have interviewed, it's a very interesting group. And I think they kind of have their

toe in every single different pond they possibly can. Yeah, there's no limitation. So it seems like they're just bringing in all sorts of people. And there's a few names that they haven't yet, as we record this, and I think should be on the list eventually being Brian Dable and Byron Leftwich. Is there a way for you in your mind to separate a head coach who has worked with a great quarterback and sometimes an all-time great quarterback in the case of Nate Hackett, who was one of their first interviews? And of course, you know, the first thing that gets said to us when we put it out there, okay, they interviewed this guy or or whatever is he worked with a great quarterback like okay if you've ever seen the south park simpsons did it episode it's just like simpsons did it simpsons did it it's like he worked with a great quarterback he worked with

a great quarterback well yeah that is true they usually don't hire head coaches who worked with horrible quarterbacks because they usually lose so that is generally the problem it's like weird pat schirmer doesn't have any buzz this year after working with uh you know a bad situation in Denver um but how do you separate Aaron Rodgers just being Aaron Rodgers from someone like Nate Hackett or Tom Brady from Byron Leftwich or you know Patrick Mahomes from Eric Biennium yeah Yeah, I think, you know, it's very interesting. And I get why Brian Lefkowitz is getting a lot of steam. He is a very good coach. I think he's one I would be a little bit nervous about.

It's not only because he's working with Tom Brady, but the offense that they run, it's pretty complex, right? I mean, we saw even Tom Brady for most of last season, their Super Bowl winning season, he struggled, right? He didn't really pick up that, you know, Tom Brady type of play, carried the team on his back later on. I mean, this is an offense that, you know, like I said, it's very difficult, a lot of option routes over the middle of the field.

That's why we saw some, a lot of miscommunication picks there. You know, I was very impressed with what Nathaniel Hackett has done in Green Bay in conjunction with the floor, just because, you know, Aaron Rodgers,gers these last couple years, he's really elevated his play, right? Because, you know, before that, he did have that down season. A lot of people are like, oh, Aaron Rodgers is done. He's washed. He's not going to be the guy anymore. And then here he is, come out, win the MVP, you know,

getting the Packers back to contention. And the big thing there is while Aaron Rodgers is one of the best in the game with playing off structure, a big thing is just his willingness to just play within the rhythm and, you know, hitting those scheme throws in the offense. I mean, it's been really excellent done from a schematic perspective. It hasn't just been Aaron Rodgers. He's just been more willing to play within that and play within structure and hitting all of those throws accurately, making very few mistakes and understanding, you know, when to go away from that. So I think Nathaniel Hackett with Green Bay,

it might be a little bit different than Byron left, which in Tampa Bay, because I do think it just with what Tom Brady has been able to do, you know, earlier I mentioned it's most, the most important aspect of the quarterback position is still in between the ears. Right. And it's still a mental position. And Tom Brady is the best quarterback the NFL has ever seen in that regard. And he's able to execute this offense, but he even still struggled. And that's why even to, you know, a mental position and Tom Brady is the best quarterback the NFL has ever seen in that regard and he's able to execute this offense but he even still struggled and that's why even too

you know Byron left was learning under Bruce Arians we go back and look at all the Bruce Arians first quarterbacks right and we've seen all the stats I mean all the quarterbacks have just been super super volatile because it's a tough offense to master and no risk it no biscuit right um and so that's where I would be a little bit concerned, just thinking of, you know, the situation that Minnesota's in. I would be a little bit more willing, you know, with Nathaniel Hackett. So, you know, it's going to be interesting. And you mentioned, you know, Brian DeBall too. I think with what he's been able to do, you know,

he really did kind of tweak that offense in Buffalo, making an all-out spread approach and just taking advantage of Josh Allen's arm strength, you know, in his running ability. But I still think, you know, with what he did, while he did make the right offensive adjustments and kind of to fill Josh Allen's skill set, I still think the biggest reason why they're still successful, so successful offensively these last few years, last couple of years, has just been Josh Allen's unprecedented, you know, improvement from an accuracy perspective.

And that's a big credit to his quarterbacks coach, Jordan Palmer. It's you rarely see quarterbacks do that, you know, let alone at the high school level. Right. I mean, you don't see that happen once they get that old and just being able to, you know, tweak some stuff with this throwing motion, you know, to help the accuracy and it's been unreal. So I think that's the biggest thing there. So, I mean, out of those, those guys, I think I'm a little bit more impressed with Nathaniel Hackett.

You know, it's going to be interesting to see, you know, which one what's one of these coordinators ends up taking the jump and which ones just stick with their team. You know, but there is at the end of the day a reason to be optimistic with, you know, all of those guys. Yeah, I mean, it's so much easier and more fun for us to break down the head coaching job because we just don't know a lot about these GM candidates. The Vikings have eight that they're reportedly interviewing and they're people that just aren't on the radar that much. We look at their resumes. So it's tough to analyze that particular hire, which is so important to the future of this organization. But I guess, Anthony, just characteristically, if you were hiring a GM, are there certain traits that you would look for? Because you've got the micromanager or the delegator or the young person or the experienced person, right?

Or the former player or the former scout. Analytics. There's so many factors. Are there any factors that I guess would feel important to you if you were Mark and Ziggy Wilf hiring a new GM? Yeah, definitely just to have range, know a little bit of everything. And we see some of the most successful GMs, especially just have expertise with the salary cap. And I think that's a very big thing. And I think we're starting to go away from so much just the scouting mindset. The GM's just got to be a former scout, worked his way up. He knows, you know, how to evaluate talent at the best level because the

GM position's a lot more than that, right? Because still even the best talent evaluators, they're going to miss, right? I mean, I think it's just, I'm not going to say it's entirely a crop shoot, but there is some certain aspects where there is luck involved and you just really need to know how to work and build a team from a contract perspective. And I think that's a very, you know, underrated aspect of that. And I think it's just kind of having, you know, a little bit of everything, you know, like I said, you know, having the understanding to evaluate talent at the right level, but also understanding that aspect, understanding, you know, the numbers and the analytics aspect, of course, you know, someone worked for PFF saying that. And so, you know, I always look to our guy, Brad Spielberger, former salary cap guy, because he knows a lot about these

candidates. You know, he knows a few of them personally, and just, you know, getting his understanding of, you know, who they are and getting the right, you know, attributes in there. And, you know, he always says, you know, just knowing, you know, the salary cap aspect, that's the biggest thing. So I would just say to have range and not just be an expertise in one certain area. So that's the biggest thing for me. And I think we are getting to that path where teams are kind of getting frustrated with failing to be a little bit open-minded, to take some risks on past candidates. Maybe a couple of decades ago, you're like, oh, this guy's now a GM after just doing this and saying, there's no,

absolutely no way. I think we're getting a little bit more open to that. So, you know, it's going to be interesting to see what happens. It is incredibly difficult to figure out like whether someone is going to be good at that part of it though, that you're talking about of like understanding the value of things as opposed to just being able to evaluate good players, because this has always been a thing that's just a conflict for me is like you have scouts for that like you have scouts to tell you who's good why do you need to be the person who also scouts and says if they're good like you assume that if

you have a bunch of people whose job it is to evaluate talent that they're going to be able to give you that information and you can work with it um but it's a it's a very tricky thing because when they hire a gm like how are sam and I supposed to have hot takes on that? Like, I don't know, man, this, this guy should be good. Like, I don't know. You know, he, we could go through, they did this in Philly or they did this in Cleveland or whatever. Like, I don't know. That doesn't mean he's going to do it here, but let's talk about some of these teams that are playing this weekend and just sort of how they got there. We were talking about the tanking route, which I know just Vikings fans, they really don't like. They really don't like that at all.

But the Bengals are here with Joe Burrow as their quarterback. And they were forced to tank because their roster completely fell apart. After the Marvin Lewis era, it just went downhill and downhill and downhill. And, you know, I remember talking about as the Vikings were in the midst of this sort of eight and eight sort of thing is you could end up becoming the Bengals as your roster just deteriorates around a quarterback who's too expensive and not good enough to win you a Super Bowl. And I feel like the bangles have come out on the other side of that as advantageously as you possibly ever can of you didn't even mean

to tank but you did and then you got this incredible quarterback to start with and they're going to play the titans which is interesting because the titans didn't tank the titans were in the playoffs when they fired Mike Malarkey as their coach, and then they retooled, and then they hit on Ryan Tannehill kind of randomly, victims of Adam Gase, I guess. And, you know, it's sort of an interesting thing to look at these two teams and sort of apply them to the Vikings and say one tank to get here and the other retooled to get here. Yeah, you know, this is kind of the luck aspect of it with the Bengals um you know I'm not gonna you know call out like just the way the organization has ran but they they kind of walk

into Joe Burrow like you said um who I you know just looking at him I think one of the greatest prospects you know this century um and then I will have to give him a tip of the cap for what they did this past year um I think what they did from signing, you know, Chidobe Uluzie and Mike Hilton and just getting those and Trey Hendrickson. I mean, those are very key pieces, but most importantly, making the right decision with drafting Jamar Chase over Pene Sewell because that was a big debate. And finally, like I'm not a Bengals fan. I live in Cincinnati Stadium right over there,

but I'm not like a Bengals fan by heart. But I was very, very vocal about this. They needed to take Jamar Chase because this guy is a difference maker. He's so much more valuable, and they ended up going that route and just said we're going to survive with an average offensive line, and it's worked out for them. You see Joe Burrow's progression. I think he's going to be one of the best quarterbacks over the next decade or two.

And, of course, with Jamar Chase in there, I think like I mentioned earlier with Justin Jefferson, he's going to be a routine top five wide receiver in the NFL. So I think it's just, it was a little bit of luck, but what they did this past off season was definitely significant in that because they did add the good pieces on the defensive side of the ball,

some risky in some aspects, but then making the right choices in the draft. And with Tennessee, it's interesting because Ryan Tannehill was objectively horrible in Miami. And then he goes to Tennessee, completely retools everything there. And I think, you know, when people say PFF, they think running backs don't matter. But Derek Henry, I mean, he's the most valuable of them all. He generates as much value as you possibly can because, I mean,

that guy's a rare specimen, an alien in some sense. You know, so that helps out there. And I do think that their defense has performed well above expectation from a coverage perspective. You know, so for the Bengals, it's kind of like what I just mentioned a minute ago. You know, you've got to have some luck all your way, but you've also got to make the right decisions on that, you know,

evaluating the talent and signing the right people. And they've done that. And, you know, evaluating the talent and signing the right people. And they've done that. So, you know, that's kind of how they got there. 49ers Packers, the other Saturday night game. I mean, we've talked a bit about the Packers, but what the two teams have in common is they've got the first round quarterback looking over the starter's shoulder. Rodgers' future is murky, whether he steps away

or, you know, whether he still wants to be traded. We don't really know what his thought process is. But the 49ers find themselves not quite in a Vikings-esque conundrum, but a conundrum that's similar in that you've got an expensive quarterback who's entering his final year, who is, you know, I think pretty highly criticized from the Bay Area sports market. And yet he's 33 and 14 as a starter, which I mean, Kirk Cousins is a 500 quarterback. Jimmy Garoppolo is like a 700 quarterback. I mean, he he wins with unremarkable statistics and Kirk Cousins loses with remarkable statistics.

It's very backwards. But you've now won a playoff game here this year with Jimmy Garoppolo. You're kind of on a roll. He's only 26 million against the cap next year. Trey Lance has looked, you know, all right when he's played, I guess, what, what would you do in that situation? Yeah. I mean, I always, I mean, right from the get-go with San Francisco, you know, everybody was like, are they going to take Mac Jones third overall? And I was kind of just sitting there and I didn't really speak. I did a little bit, but I was like, I would be fine with it.

I think he's a good quarterback and I think he would be excellent in that system. And they took Trey Lance, who I personally thought was the fifth best quarterback of those five first rounders. I really was not high on, I mean, he was in an offense, didn't ask him to limit his arm. You know, he's athletic. He can add some value in the run game super big arm but super inaccurate too and I just really did not think he could handle that type of load now he has you've

seen bits and pieces of it you know when he has been on the field but at the end of the day he hasn't really shown me anything that I didn't think he could already be and I haven't seen that kind of extra mile there now Jimmy G he's not going to give you that extra mile, but he's going to, you know, play, I think, a little bit more safer ball, you know, than Trey Lance. And I think Jimmy Garoppolo is the best option for them. And, I mean, he's gotten this far, you know, for a reason. So, you know, I think next year they're probably just going to have to,

considering the decisions they've already made, they're going to have to go with the Trey Lance route. But at the beginning, I just really did not think that was the right option for them. So I think they're kind of in an interesting dilemma there. And if the reports are true that Shanahan wanted Mac Jones, but was kind of convinced by everyone else that they should go with Trey Lance, it might get some interesting conversations out of the organization if Trey Lance doesn't really, you know, end up that franchise guy like a lot of people want him to be. And I'm not going to say he can't be.

You definitely see some of it. But I would be pretty nervous, you know, just, you know, seeing what we've seen and, you know, everything that we saw in college too. So, you know, I think they're in a pretty interesting spot here. I think they have an opportunity to win this upcoming weekend. I mean, they almost got him earlier in the season, but it's going to be tough in that cold weather and it's going to be tough because you got Aaron Rodgers and Vontae Adams you know the best quarterback wide receiver tandem I think in the league you know so one of the best we've seen over the years

so it's going to be tough for him I think if they lose this weekend I think it would be this could be a spot where we kind of look back in a couple of years like that's you know the players are there and now they're back down here um and you know what went wrong at the time you know it's funny about the uh garoppolo and trey lance thing is that everybody looks at alex smith to patrick mahomes and says like that's it that's the thing right that's what we want alex smith wasn't quite good enough but j but Jimmy Garoppolo had them in the fourth quarter in the lead in the Superbowl. I mean, it's, that's hard to repeat. Like that's not something that everybody can do. And then if he's able to get him back to the NFC championship game,

it's just like, okay, so this quarterback can consistently get you deep in the playoffs, but you're going to move on to somebody else. That's such a weird thing. Like with cousins, your team has not had any success. So it's a lot easier to be like, oh, well, you know, move on to the athletic quarterback if you could find him because you just, you clearly have not been able to build around this guy's contract. But the teams that have looked for the Flacco to Lamar Jackson or the, you know, Jimmy Garoppolo or the Alex Smith to Patrick mahomes are now kind of saying

oh we need to move on from this middling quarterback and try to get the athlete but what if you draft the jordan love and the guy just stinks right away like then then you don't have that i also wanted to ask you your opinion because i was writing about this a little bit um last night ryan tannahill jimmy garoppolo and Matt Stafford are all in the same tier as Kirk Cousins. They are here. Kirk Cousins is not here. What are the edges that these guys get? Because it's not the first time.

I mean, for Jimmy Garoppolo and for Ryan Tannehill, they've been deep in the playoffs before. Kirk Cousins has never been deep in the playoffs. What do you think it is that would differentiate quarterbacks that are generally bundled in the playoffs before. Kirk Cousins has never been deep in the playoffs. Like, what do you think it is that would differentiate quarterbacks that are generally bundled in the same area of kind of being the not Mahomes, not Joe Burrow, like not the elite quarterbacks? Yeah, I think scheme plays a big part of that. And just, you know, being able to execute, you know, what's called, I mean, we've seen all three really kind of do that for their respective offenses.

You know, with Matthew Stafford, he's more of that, you know, risk taking play style, but they're still running at high efficiency levels because, you know, I think Sean McVay has gotten a little bit more aggressive than what he was in the past with Jared Goff because he now has the arm, you know, to make some throws. And we've seen Matthew Stafford make some incredible throws. It's almost a Jameis Winston-esque type of year for him, but just not so severe in the wrong direction to kind of help them, you know, sustain that high efficiency level. And so I think that's a big part of that and just be the quarterback, trusting the, you know,

the offense there and operating what's called and just having that good, you know, scheme in place, a good ecosystem in place to really carry out. I think that's what kind of, I would agree that they're all in the same type of, you know, scheme in place, a good ecosystem in place to really carry out. I think that's what kind of, I would agree that they're all in the same type of, you know, they're not elite, but they're not bad type of tier. But I think, you know, it's just more of the ecosystem as a whole kind of helping them out to get there, but also just being, you know, a little bit risk taking there with Stafford. Sorry, Sam, let me interrupt real quick on the follow-up here. Anthony, I think that the aggressive part is certainly part of it, because I was looking up last night that Stafford and Garoppolo are first and third

when they're performing on third and long, which I know is sort of chopping it down to the small sample size. What did the guy bat in May or whatever, right? But I think that that matters. I mean, even over a three-year sample, Stafford and Garoppolo were able to perform in those situations where Cousins was much more middle of the league in third and long. And that's sort of become the joke of like check down to the fullback. And I think the Vikings were 24th and third down percentage. Like there's, I think there's some small edges when you're

talking about quarterbacks of the same type that we just bunch them all together and say, if this guy can do it, then this guy can do it. But with Ryan Tannehill over the last three years, he's run for 18 touchdowns and Kirk Cousins has three. It's like when we count these things up, we look at attempts, completions, completion percentage, yards per attempt, PFF grade quarterback rating. And then we go, okay, that's who they are. But I think that there's, there's just more to it. but it also could be me hunting around just because they've won more now i 100%

agree with you i mean that that's a big thing and that's what makes a kirk cousin situation kind of unique um just because it's kind of you know his type of play style um you don't really see that very often um you know just with the way he kind of operates. So I 100% agree with it. You look at all those, the raw metrics and the overall ones, and it looks good compared, you know, on paper with everyone else, but that's kind of the aspect where you kind of have to marry, you know, the tape with the data and understanding how they got there. I think that's a big thing.

So yeah, that's a very good point to agree with. Okay. Last thing, Anthony, who is playing championship weekend? I'll have to go with the Bengals with the rematch with the Chiefs. But that Chiefs-Pills game, I'm going back and forth every other day, it seems. So I'm not going to be surprised if Buffalo wins that. I do think Cincinnati will win on the road. And then I'm going to have to go with Green Bay and Tampa Bay. Just two of the best quarterbacks in the league that, you know,

our generation has seen. So I think those two are going to get it done. All right. On Twitter, PFF underscore Anthony, Anthony trash. You can read his work at pff.com. Always great to get together with you, man. I just always enjoy the conversations and we will do it again. Cause you write so much college football too,

that we will certainly get more in-depth opinions on these quarterbacks as we get closer and closer especially if the Vikings do trade Kirk Cousins so I really appreciate your time glad you could come on and do a little Friday roundtable action with us yeah of course thank you guys thanks Anthony