Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - PFF's Austin Gayle makes the case for the Vikings picking a receiver and Justin Jefferson (almost) talks about his goals

Episode Date: April 13, 2022

Matthew Coller is joined by Pro Football Focus's Austin Gayle, who is working on a project on the expected No. 1 pick Aidan Hutchinson and what made him a great prospect. They talk about why Garrett Wilson would be a great pick for the Vikings and Austin tries to add some hype to Vikings draft twitter. Plus Matthew and Sam Ekstrom from TCO Performance Center take in Day 2 of Vikings player availabilities Listen to Hutch (premier's April 13) here https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/hutch-the-story-of-aidan-hutchinson/id1614686134 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider and bring in a special guest. He's been here many times before, but this time is different. Austin Gale from Pro Football Focus, the PFF Tailgate podcast, along with Mike Renner there. And, you know, Austin, I love that you smiled when we started. I'm not going to use the video because it's way too early in the morning for me. But I love that you think that I would put a video of myself looking like this when I literally just rolled out of bed because you have a very packed schedule because you are promoting your new podcast series, four episode series with Aiden Hutchinson that is launching on April 13th

called Hutch, which is awesome. I know that you've been working on this project for a long time. It's very cool. So hello. And why don't we start talking about Aiden Hutchinson? Because on this podcast, we always draft in the middle of the draft and never at the top. First and foremost, you look fantastic, Matt. Secondly, I am so excited to release Hutch this week. It'll come out Wednesday, April 13th. We did the math. I officially finished my last audio recording for the podcast. 21 hours total on the mic for this podcast, all distilled into five hours of content. It was a wild one, man. We got through the ad reads with Aiden yesterday. He handled them like a champ, a true professional. It's going to be a lot of fun, dude. I think Aiden Hutchinson, the more I've gotten to know him, it's been really cool to see just the type of player he is,

the type of person he is, right? I've gotten to know his family, talking to his mom, his dad, his sisters who are just like wildly supportive, dude. Like this is a family that was built in a lab. You know how in the draft they're like, this guy was built in a lab to play defensive end. This family was built in a lab to like support each other. It's his mom. His dad played, you know, won four Big Ten titles, beat Ohio State four times, drafted into the NFL,

then ended up leaving the NFL to go become an ER doctor. His mom was a model in college, is now a photographer. His oldest sister, I think, is a doctor. His youngest sister is a photographer, and now he's going to be the number one overall pick. It's a freaky family, dude. It's a freaky family, and it's been great to get to know him and also just talk to a lot of his teammates his coaches harbaugh don brown his strength and conditioning coach ben herbert and the media too right the media all has the same thing i think if there's any theme to call out in this project and i've said this to melissa hutchinson his mom it's like it's absurd how consistent everything is right there's everyone says the same damn thing about them, it's like, it's absurd how consistent everything is, right? There's, everyone says the same damn thing about him, whether it's on the field or off

the field, it's work ethic, it's intangibles, it's athleticism, it's size, it's all this stuff that you really look for, right? And I think, you know, can't miss gets thrown a lot in the draft. And I think it's overused. I mean, there's so, there's a lot of ways to miss, right? Injuries and all these different things. I think what, what, what gets me so excited about Aiden Hutchinson in this class is, you know,

exactly what you're getting, you know, exactly what you're getting. There's no projection, right? Can he play, you know, like the best player on the football field?

Yes. Can he do it in the biggest games? Yes. Does he have the athleticism? Yes. But what about his work ethic? Double? Yes.

Like there's, you know, there's a quote from Harbaugh in the podcast or he kind of just rattles everything off. He's like intangibles, highest level, athleticism, highest level, character, highest level. It's just like, it's exactly who he is, right? And, you know, I think a lot of people in this draft class have, you know, the arm length is a bit of a concern, right? That could be a reason why maybe he's not uber productive. He doesn't have the ceiling of a Khalil Mack, Bosa Brothers, or a Miles Garrett,

but the floor is something that I'm super excited about. I think the floor is so much higher than a lot of the other players in this class. I do think it's going to be a really, really exciting pick for the Jacksonville Jaguars. If they do make that selection. Did Harbaugh mention losing Aiden Hutchinson time to go to the NFL. That's sort of, sort of funny timing there. I have the number one overall pick and now I think I'll leave Michigan.

But no, you know what I think is really interesting about the draft in general is that it takes a whole village to raise a draft prospect, and I always find that to be interesting to ask players after they're picked kind of about their families and their family reaction because so many people have to be involved, and that's why I love this project that you're doing is that you've got these people involved. It takes position coaches and head coaches and family and everything else to get somebody to this point that Aiden Hutchinson is at.

And to me, it really, I don't know. I don't know for sure if he's going to be number one, but it was sort of solidified for me when that game against Ohio State. What do you remember about that? Because that to me was like one of the most beastly college performances that I've seen from any player in a long time. Yeah, I mean, I've called it multiple times, you know, one of the best, if not the best single game defensive performance,

you know, from a defensive end I've really ever seen. It was 15 total pressures against an offensive line that hadn't allowed 15 total pressures to a team all season. I mean, they were in line to win the Joe Moore award, right? They had NFL caliber offensive linemen and 15 total pressures, three sacks. He breaks his dad's record, the university of Michigan record with the sacks there. There's that obvious rep where he calls out, I think it's, who is who is it the the left tackle and he says come at me man and just blows right through him and um you know he mentions on the podcast he's like honestly i think that was the coolest moment of my life and then it's honestly

if you look at that play he like ruins the offensive lineman it's not a trip scenario either right you know offensive line twitter is big on oh he tripped or whatever but they also pick up the third down so like cj stroud like gets pressure but he gets the third down completion and it's he's like they move the change and i was like coming off the biggest play of my life he's like and i had to just get right back after it but it was um that game specifically really was you know a reason to start to consider him as the number one overall pick right in the biggest game the biggest moment the whole reason he came back right he changed he was he drove the change the nine nine on seven drill

at Michigan is now called the beat Ohio State drill for the first time this year that's what it was called and you know he when he came back at Big Ten Media Day for the first time in 10 plus years you know you had Michigan players talking about Ohio State in the preseason and like I think it all kind of came together right you go back to the preseason expectations for this Michigan football team they weren't even a top 25 team according to the Associated Press and they took that right and you know I was talking to even a top 25 team according to the Associated Press. And they took that, right? And, you know, I was talking to Blake Corum, the running back for the University of Michigan,

and I was kind of hyping him up. He's a young player, and I'm excited for him in this upcoming season. I was like, dude, you think about it. This team had so much talent. You, Cade McNamara, Ajabo, Hutchinson, Josh Ross, Daxton Hill, and you guys were doubted. And I think another theme, right, Is if you put a chip on the shoulder of someone that can do Herculean things, look out, you know what I mean? Cause like it can be dangerous.

And that's what happened with Aiden. In my opinion, he obviously was coming off the injury. He broke his, broke his ankle in the third game of the season in 2020, it was a COVID impacted season. He was not planning on coming back to school that all shifts when he gets hurt. Right. He makes this decision to come back. Other players make this decision to come back. You have senior leaders like Hill and Josh Ross and all that stuff. So it really was a culmination, right? It was a culmination of this underdog mentality on a really talented football

team, right? It's not an underdog mentality like the replacements, right? Those guys weren't good football players. It was more an underdog mentality on guys that are going to be top. Jackson Hill, Aiden Hutchinson, David Ojabo, if he didn't tear his ACL, or I think it was his Achilles at his pro day, are all first-round picks, first-round caliber players. So there was a chip building on the shoulder of someone uber-talented, a team that was uber-talented. And that all came and reared its head against Ohio State.

Then they go on and win the Big Ten Championship against Iowa in dominating fashion. Obviously, the Georgia game doesn't go their way, but still a really impressive season for Aiden and that Michigan football team. You don't think that Keanu Reeves character was a good quarterback. I think he was an okay quarterback. I think he was an okay quarterback.

That movie is still one of my favorites. I don't want to like call out the replacements, but like that replacement underdog story, like longest yard, you know, longest yards. Like these guys are like legitimately like prison inmates and they like kind of find strike strike strike line lightning in a bottle michigan was like first round caliber players on defense that were being doubted right and like

even offensively kade mcnamara hassan haskins blake quorum an offensive line with andrew stuber kind of leading that charge it was a really good football team and they got ronnie bell i think got hurt in the first or second game of the season. That's one of their top receivers. And Andre Anthony, who I think was a true sophomore last year, had to step up. And all these guys had to step up. Eric Hall, the tight end. So going back, and I've lived through this season with so many different people. Jim Branstadter, the play-by-play for Michigan.

It was Dan Dierdorf, who's like Michigan blood. I think he bleeds literal blue. It's been great to hear kind of their perspectives on the rivalries, right? The Michigan States, the Ohio States, Penn State, in the Happy Valley, all that stuff has been really cool. I didn't go to Michigan, but it felt like I lived this season pretty well. Yeah. I was going to ask you, because you spent so much time with this project, but you also on your guy's show, the PFF tailgate, you also talk to lots of prospects. I mean, almost every year you're having interviews with guys who are going to get drafted. And I guess I was wondering from your

years of doing that, how it correlates to the success of prospects. I mean, not are they brilliant talkers every time? Cause I've certainly covered many players who are more quiet or something like that, but I wonder if there's anything about their mentality that you notice when you're interviewing guys and you sort of get a sense for it that it's going to work for them as you're doing those interviews. So for this project specifically, too, I've interviewed a lot of players, interviewed a lot of media, over 50 plus people. And I've also interviewed over the last two years alone. And that doesn't go back to some of the interviews I was doing when I had my own website as a kid um i've interviewed over like 200 draft prospects literally and i think the biggest takeaway i've had from the interview process is you maybe don't find out who's going to be stars in the nfl purely through the interview process but i think i i do

think you find out who's going to last you you find out who's going to stick around right i some of the interviews that i remember that really blew me away jonah williams the left tackle for the cincinnati bangles who just had all the arm length concerns right some people wanted to kick him inside the guard his process and his approach to the game you could just know he's going to last he's going to whether he's going to be a hall of famer will be more for his athleticism his measurables and the situation to kind of determine but is he going to last in the NFL? Absolutely. I think the same can be said about Brian Burns. Brian Burns is also a freaky athlete, but like, I don't think he's going anywhere. When I called him, he was watching his training back and seeing like watching film, not his pass rush moves,

not his tape, but how he squats, how, and that again, you, you know, Mike Renner, my podcast co-host makes fun of me all the time for weighing a lot into the interviews. But you talk to any evaluator in the NFL, you talk to anybody that goes to the combine consistently. The most important thing at the combine is the medical checks and the interviews. And I think in those interviews, you find out who's going to have the mentality, the emotional stability, the mental stability to actually put in the work, react to money, which is very difficult to do, react to money, and also put in the work long enough to last and improve. And I think I found that out about a lot of players in this process. Aiden is exactly that. I think David Ajabo can be that, right?

I think there's a lot of people that want it more than anything. If you want it more than anything, and you are a certain percentile athlete, and you have a certain percentile measurables, right? You can do it. You can stay in this league. Will you be a Hall of Famer? No? I mean, look at Julio Jones. He probably wanted it, but he also was like, we're freaking nature. Calvin Johnson, freaking nature. There's guys that just have like insatiable talent that don't need to, you know, have the same mentality as a Jonah Williams or an Aiden Hutchinson or a Brian Burns. I mean, you look at, you know, Chad Johnson, right? Chad Johnson did not care what he put in his body, but he had the freakiest feet in the league and could create separation with ease. And you compare that to, um, right? Aiden found out in a test that gluten could slow his gains.

He said, I'm done with gluten. Immediately quits. Drops his body fat percentage in the off season to 7%. I mean, he is willing to do whatever it takes to win. And when you have that mentality, it can culminate to something pretty special. Nobody knows better than you and I about having to react to money. Only if only. Don't get a big head when you get a $10 bonus check from PFF. Yeah, I mean, look, every time we add a subscriber, my ego just goes through the roof. So, again, that's coming out April 13th and it's Hutch. It's going to be also on your YouTube channel and your podcasts. I cannot wait for

this project. I know how hard you worked on this. And I also know how you look standing next to Aiden Hutchinson. And so the fact that you were willing to publish that, I mean, people do not understand. So I'm, i'm taller than you by quite a bit but if i was standing next to aiden hutchinson i would still look like a tiny little man and this is why i said that even though even though we can think a lot of ourselves in our work and you kind of have to to do stuff like this we're always fully emasculated standing next to the world's greatest athletes the other thing too is like Aiden Hutchinson is also tall for a defensive end. He's 6'7".

You compare that to the average height for defensive ends is more like that 6'3", 6'4", range. So he's an extra three inches above average, and I'm 5'9", and she's 5'10", on Tinder. And I just don't think it's going to – it's not going to fly. You're not going to look that big next to him. But no, that photo had to come out. Everyone had to everyone had to know it didn't help me at all in the dating scene, but Aiden's a huge dude, an absolute monstrous human being.

Yeah. Well, I mean, we all look like that. I mean, I've covered, you know, deal Hunter for a very long time and that is the literal human Adonis. So, you know, it's, you're always reminded that there's someone bigger than you when you go in the NFL locker room. But I want to talk about a few other things with you with the draft. I mean, one is I want you to talk me into Vikings fans getting hyped for this because we were discussing the other day on the show. And I think it's really true that there's so many options for Vikings needs that it's almost a little bit like, what do they argue with each other on Twitter about?

I mean, it's like there's four positions, maybe three or four positions that if they draft, everyone's going to be like, okay, definitely needed that, which also makes you feel a little sad about your roster if you need four or five different positions. But I guess I want you to, I want you to help me out there because I feel like I'm struggling, you know, here in the media, we create conflict,

but there really isn't any with Vikings fans right now. It's like, Oh, a corner defensive end or receiver. Okay. That's how it feels. I think when you do have no multiple needs, right.

In the Vikings have proven in the past that they're a big trade down team. I think there's an option multiple needs, right, and the Vikings have proven in the past that they're a big trade down team, I think there's an option there. Now, I hate lazy draft analysts that highlights every team could trade down, but I also think that specifically they could trade down. Not enough people are talking about the Houston Texans potentially taking a quarterback at 13, right? And if you want to get ahead of the Houston Texans, you can do that. Say the Saints want to jump ahead or the Steelers want to jump ahead of the Houston Texans to make sure they land one of these top end quarterbacks. Top end in this class, I wouldn't compare, you know, top end not compared to previous year.

So they are a prime trade down team, right? Especially without like one glaring, obvious need, like one missing piece of this team. But if they do stay put at 12, I think they can go multiple ways. I think I would hate most of their needs into your offensive line just because I think it's too rich. It's too rich at 12 to attack Tyler Linderbaum of Iowa or Zion Johnson, Boston College. I don't think they should go into your offensive line. I'd be more interested in them attacking potentially receiver, like go and get receiver at that spot. Cornerback is another need.

And then edge. I think those are the three spots that I think you can't really go wrong. Trent McDuffie, the Washington quarterback, has been consistently mocked to them at 12 i'd honestly look if other receivers were available drake london of usc garrett wilson ohio state i don't even think that's too rich for jameson williams or chris alave i think that spot sounds really good and then for edge defender right it depends on who falls but if you get you know one of these like a tibideau to fall that far right tib Thibodeau has been talked down on this entire draft class, which is absolutely absurd. I think you could go that direction as well.

Jermaine Johnson is another one that's been mocked in that tier. I'm not as high on Jermaine Johnson as other people are, but they could go that direction. So they're in a really good position to stay put at 12 and take a really good receiver, a really good cornerback, or one of these like second tier of edges. Don't go into your offensive line, but also look to trade back, right? If there's a team looking to jump up, I think it's a team that would benefit significantly from getting a lot more cheaper contracts on their roster, right? I mean, they have a lot of spend at the quarterback position. They need to get cheaper at different positions. So they're a prime trade back team for me as well. Folks, I've been working on a new

studio space to shoot some videos and what better to have in the background than some awesome prints from our friends at soda stick they have all the designs that they put on clothes but you can also have them hanging on your walls too which i will very soon everything from the homage to the metrodome to the felino fan club to the hooked on a feeling design to the straight cash homie they have it all perfect for your football cave or your living room right over the tv however you want to do it go to sodastick.com that's s-o-t-a-s-t-i-c-k.com use the promo code purple insider for 15 off hats hoodies shirts and of course your prince i saw you on good morning football the other day uh talking about wide receivers and so i was just as you were talking doing a pff draft sim and i went with

garrick wilson there at number 12 i mean i think that garrick wilson chris alave drake london like somebody has to be there for wide receiver and eventually adam thielen will move on uh whether it's retirement or maybe just you know his contract sets up for him to leave eventually justin jefferson needs a 1b there's also the little like or justin jefferson might force his way out and you need someone else like that vikings fans are getting uh you know worried about that right away but as much as they need other defensive positions, I just always keep coming back to wide receivers, the best spot for them, if they stay at number 12.

I love receiver for them. If Drake Lennon's there, it's a win. If Garrett Wilson's there, like I said, it's not too rich for an Olave or Jameson Williams. And if there's anything we've learned about this league over the last two to three years is that you can't have enough playmakers, right? I go back to Los Angeles Rams. Robert Woods was healthy and Cooper Cup was on his way to win a triple crown when they went and got Odell Beckham Jr., right? You look at the Cincinnati Bengals, the other

Super Bowl team, T. Higgins, Jamar Chase, Tyler Boyd, three legit weapons. You go back to the Kansas City Chiefs Super Bowl run. They didn't have Byron Pringle starting the outside like they did when they lost. They had Sammy Watkins, tyreek hill travis kelsey you need multiple guys that can win in a pinch win in critical situations third down you go people don't bring up that sammy watkins rep against richard sherman in the super bowl enough like that you need winners go back to the bangles a game that i was at the bangles raiders playoff game in critical situations derrick carr trying to win this game is going to foster morel and zay jones in the class like that that's just not enough like you need playmakers not one not two multiple three plus playmakers that can win in critical situations it's not just about having

complementary skill sets which I think is important as well build your receiving core like a basketball team have a guy that can stretch the field and win the intermediate and take things after the catch but you need guys that third and two, it's one guy. Third and six, it's another. Red zone, it's another. And they don't have that right now, in my opinion. They have two. Justin Jefferson, phenomenal.

Adam Thielen getting older, but still a really good receiver. Add another one, dude. Win on offense. You know, it's not enough to have Dalvin Cook there, right? Dalvin Cook's a great playmaker in the backfield, but the impact you can have by upgrading over, say, KJ Osborne is so vast, especially if you're looking into your offensive line at that spot or even cornerback. Like I said, there will be one of these guys

available, Drake London of USC, Garrett Wilson, Ohio State, Chris Olave, Ohio State, Jamison Williams, Alabama. Go add that talent to your offense and win on that side of the ball. Win on the side of the ball that dictates. You know, you bring up Chris Ballard, GM of the Indianapolis Colts. He prioritizes speed and length on defense for this reason. You are playing from behind. You are reacting to the play in front of you. You need to catch up. How do you catch up?

Longer arms and better speed. That's exactly how you catch up. So I think that's why you prioritize length at off the linebacker, prioritize length at cornerback, and you prioritize speed on the back end. They have not hit home on pass rushers, but Ballard I do think has the best process on the defensive side of the ball in terms of attacking the right measurables and attacking the right traits. Offensively, what do you need?

Playmakers, guys that can win consistently against press coverage, against zone coverage, and a quarterback, obviously, that can make plays. Do you have a receiver preference of the guys that you name? Because, I mean, to me it's like dealer's choice pick one and they're probably all have equal chances of being good but drake london is the one that is maybe uh more debatable than the others because it's the whole contested catch thing which absolutely triggers vikings fans back to laquan treadwell i i don't think he's another Laquan Treadwell from watching him a little bit, but that always does set off little bells and whistles of like, well,

does that mean that you weren't separating like some of these other wide receivers? So I like Drake London a lot. He's my wide receiver one in this class, but the wide receiver one, if he didn't get hurt for me, would be Jamison Williams. I think Jamison Williams is absolutely phenomenal. I think adding Williams to Thielen Jefferson receiving core is probably the best case scenario. Now that's if he can come back healthy, say by October, right?

If you, now I'm not saying he has to be held by October to draft him, but I'm saying that makes it a little bit easier. I could also prioritize a lava here. You need speed. I think you need more speed. I think you need more speed. Thielen's not a speed guy.

Jefferson's fast, but he's not the vertical threat that you can have more vertical threats than what Justin Jefferson offers. I want Jefferson and Thielen eating at the intermediate levels. I want Jefferson making plays after the catch, and I want a guy that's going to go burn, just burn down the field, be this vertical threat. So I look at Chris Olave and Jamison Williams as that option at 12, and I would love that for the Minnesota Vikings. I think Kirk would love that. I think this team would benefit from that. So I think it's a real difference. It's a real opportunity to have a difference on the offense. And, and because this receiving class has a lot of complimentary skill sets and they already have two really talented receivers, it's a perfect fit.

I don't think that, I don't think this receiving class specifically has a lot of like obvious alphas, right? I wouldn't rank any of these guys ahead of Jamar Chase, Devante Smith, or Jalen Waterman last year's class. I think there are a lot of high-end wide receiver twos, maybe wide receiver ones. So the best teams that are, you know, the teams that are going to benefit the most from drafting this receiving class is guys or teams that already have a really good receiver, a really good number one. And the Vikings, I think, have that. They have Veland, they have Jefferson. You add this complimentary skill set. That's why Jameson Williams to the Chargers is another like fit that I just set. That's why Jamison Williams to the Chargers is another fit that I just love. That's perfect.

Mike Williams, big body, contested catch, vertical threat. Keenan Allen, eating up, cutting a rug at the intermediate levels. Then you got Jamison Williams to burn with a rocket arm of Justin Herbert. So I do think that the teams that will benefit the most will be teams that already have a good receiving core that add one of these guys and the Vikings fit the bill. Man, you should change your podcast name to obvious alphas uh so i'm doing this draft sim and kenny pickett is there in the second round and uh this may not be possible or it may because we always think we know where these guys are going to go and then we get to draft nine and then jimmy clausen drops to the second and mel kuyper

retires on the spot actually you know that story though right that mel kuiper said something like if he's not taking number one i'm gonna retire or if he's not a great quarterback i'm gonna retire and then like you can't do that um but he didn't retire so uh but i wouldn't be shocked if there was a quarterback who dropped out of this group, but we don't know which one I did, it's not going to be Malik Willis because of his skillset, but the rest of them, they all have things to like and things to don't to not like. I don't know that it's a great idea to take one in the second round. If you're the Vikings,

but if they're going to do it and they're going to take one swing at it, and then if it doesn't work out, draft another quarterback when it's time to move on from Kirk cousins, I would not criticize that strategy. I would probably say that's a good idea. If we all think they have pretty even odds, then that's okay. What is your feeling on that, though? Because in a weak class, waiting until the guy drops to the second, I don't know.

I still did it, though. I still took Kenny Pickett. I think so. Someone tweeted this. I don't remember who, and I apologize for not giving credit, but I do agree with what the statement was. It was that if Kenny Pickett isn't drafted by the Panthers, I think there's a really good chance he falls a lot further than people think.

I mean, Matt Rule has that connection. He recruited him at Temple. People want him in Pittsburgh because obviously he played at Pittsburgh, but I think Pittsburgh, the Steelers are looking at a different quarterback. I think they're looking more at Ritter. They're looking more at Willis. I think that's the type of guy they want to bring in. So I think Pickett could fall if he gets past the Panthers. I don't think he does. I think he's plus 250 to go to the

Panthers. He might be plus 150 to go to the Panthers, which is insane. A player going to a team that drafts at six at plus 150 odds is absolutely bananas. I've never seen that low of odds for a team picking six. So there is smoke there. If there's fire, I think there's fire as well. So I don't know if Kenny Pickett falls. I think Malik Wills goes high. He goes high as two. And if he falls past two, I think he goes to six. And then at that point, maybe you're looking at Kenny Pickett falling, whatever. The quarterback that I do think will fall on the top of the second round, Sam Howell of UNC and Matt Corral of Ole Miss. Guys that not super accurate, played in really gimmicky offenses, like got offenses they just flat out won't play in the NFL, a lot of RPOs.

46% of Sam Howell's plays, not just throws, plays, were RPOs. There are offenses in the NFL that don't clear like 9%. If he's going to play a completely different offense, he's not that accurate. I don't think the gap between him and Malik Willis is that vast, though. Malik Willis is a better athlete and has a better arm talent, but not by multiple levels. Malik Willis, 6'2", Sam Howell, 6'2". Malik Willis led the FBS in forced missed tackles. Sam Howell led the Power 5 in forced missed tackles at the quarterback position. Rocket arm, good arm. Howitzer for Sam Howell. Great deep ball. Not accurate. Sam Howell's not accurate. I think there's a lot of comparables there. And I think, honestly for Sam Howell. Great deep ball. Not accurate. Sam Howell's not accurate. I think there's a lot of comparables there.

And I think, honestly, Sam Howell might have a little bit better pocket presence, but it's not even that great. Malik Wills isn't. Sam Howell isn't. So I think there's some opportunity with Howell in the second round. And for Corral, I mean, you're just going to have to do a lot of different things with him. I don't think he's going to play in an offense that is any what similar to what

Lane runs at Ole Miss. And you saw a comment. I hate speaking to this stuff, but you saw a comment that he's got maturity issues from Bruce Feldman. It wasn't from Bruce Feldman. It was a quote from an unnamed coach, which you just love to see. Wouldn't it be great to be an unnamed human being dogging 21-year-olds? Wouldn't it be great? I can't believe that stuff exists.

I can't believe people are willing to say that. But you have to buy into it, right? You have to buy into it because if the evaluators are saying it, I trust Bruce Feldman and the sources. I just don't respect that person. I don't respect the human being that's not willing to put their name on dragging some faces through the mud. That's what Kayvon Thibodeau has experienced. It's not what Corral has experienced with some of this maturity stuff.

Derek Stingley has seen a hell of it with not being an alpha and didn't want to play through injury. It's a bunch of unnamed people i would never do that man you know getting off on a little bit of a tangent here but i do think that sam howe matt corral at the top of the second round would be the guys that want to invest in carson strong probably not you know ellaby no i'm not probably getting any other quarterbacks after that i'd be really interested to know how often that ends up being the case like when there are anonymous sources saying that there are maturity issues because there have been some guys who are like that for sure. You know,

Ryan Mallett, I think I remember that didn't he sort of get in a fight with the media and his combine press conference or something. I mean, so, you know, who knows? But I also think it gets said enough times about players who end up being

stars for me, not to take it really seriously. And to say, also, we were talking about interviewing the players and things like not to take it really seriously and to say also we were talking about interviewing the players and things like that that it's just hard to know like it's a totally different atmosphere somebody could get into it with people in in college and come to the professional atmosphere and really fit in or not really fit in and and you don't know which one that's going to be um so here's what I'll leave you with.

I want you on the quarterbacks. Give me, because I was joking the other day that I think that Desmond Ritter is like Josh McCown. Like, give me realistic comps. Because what I love is Sam Howell, he could be this guy or think of that guy. You're always comparing him to like the best case scenario. And it's usually a starter or a star. But what's more realistic in this uh finger quotes bad quarterback draft desmond ritter the cop i have for him is last year's marcus mariotta okay not not the hype coming out of oregon not like that but like you go back to even

his draft profile marcus mariotta was a runner but you're not gonna like have him running the football in your offense marcus mariotta wasn't overly accurate coming out of Oregon and stuff. I'm probably dating myself a little bit going back and looking at that, but like Marcus Mariota is like the type of player he'll be right. You can run with him, but you're not going to like RG three it, right. You're not going to like go all out with it or Lamar Jackson and stuff like that. I think he has good athleticism, but his, you know, I talked to Seth Galena a lot.

He's an analyst here at PFF and he coaches quarterbacks and coaches teams up in Canada and something that he's does a really good job of in addition to you know scheme analysis and understanding offenses and how they want to attack defenses and all that stuff he understands like quarterback footwork and and and you know the the details that go into the position that help with pocket presence that help with pocket navigate navigation and stuff and he sees a lot of that from ritter and ritter is easily the most experienced quarterback in this class in terms of experience you know checking his own protections and and and having you know uh NFL throws on his tape you know in that 15 to 19 yard window there's this dig route that he consistently hits the backside dig is like that's not on Sam Howell's tape not consistently

it's not on Willis's tape that's not on Corral's tape they don't have those throws right it's all verticals and and one-on-ones and all the RPO stuff, single read stuff. Ritter, the phrase I've used consistently is he's got projectable tape. Does he have the biggest arm? No. Does he have the best athleticism? No. But he has tape that I want to buy.

I'd like that tape on my team, right? Where there isn't as much projectable tape on Corral or Howell or even Willis' film, right? There's a lot more, oh, wow, he can do that? What can do in my offense because he's gonna we're gonna have to change it up a bit that's crazy that he can do that though he can he can spin it and he doesn't have good footwork but he still is hammering it like 80 yards through the air so i i think ritter is gonna get slept on a bit i'd be surprised if he gets past like the the steelers at 20 though the steelers in my opinion at 20 are his absolute floor if he goes to to Detroit at 32, I think that's highway robbery. Honestly, he's a really good quarterback prospect,

someone I'm willing to take a first-round flyer on. Some people make the Ryan Tannehill comparisons as well, but I do think it's like mid-career Mariota, where get that guy on a rookie contract with a good supporting cast, and I think you can have some success, as did the University of Cincinnati Bearcats' first group of five team, obviously, to make the college football playoff. Look up Josh McCown's combine, and it'll blow your mind how I thought the key

was, but didn't play like that. And that's what I see with Ritter is somebody who's like got a crazy combine, but that I never saw actually play with that type of like baller mentality, which I wonder like how that's, how that's going to translate. I also think that Kenny Pickett is like current Teddy Bridgewater where,

you know, there's some, there's some accurate throws in there, but there's also some hastiness in the pocket and some antsiness. And you wonder about that. And Matt Corral, I'm not convinced is a real person still like that. We have, he's right. He's just got hurt and we haven't seen him really in the, in the off season stuff. And I think that's probably hurt him. So Austin, always great to catch up with you,

man. Great stuff. And I'm looking forward to this. It's going to be on its own podcast feed hutch. So you guys will tweet it out and everything else, put it on your PFF website. But if it's launching April 13th, but you can go now and subscribe to it on like iTunes or whatever,

and make sure that you get it to big series that you guys did. And I'm really looking forward to it, man. So thanks for all your time. I'm glad that you could make this a stop on your celebrity media tour and a great to catch up with you again, man. Absolutely.

Thank you so much, man. Appreciate it. Appreciate everybody listening to that interview with Austin G gale now let's get to myself and sam extram reporting on what we heard from the second day of player availabilities out at tco performance center inside tco performance center where we just got done speaking with justin jefferson adam phelan two guards who are going to be competing for a right guard spot, a very offensive-based day here at TCO Performance Center. And I think the best

place to start, Sam, is probably with Justin Jefferson and Adam Thielen's comments about Kevin O'Connell's offense. Now, it's only two days in to workouts, so they can't give a ton of specifics at this moment, but it felt like Justin Jefferson was particularly amped to have an offensive-minded head coach. Yeah, he's already thinking Cooper Cup numbers. It sounds like KOC has already been sitting in the meeting room and laying out how he's going to get Justin Jefferson open, same way he did with the Cooper Cup last year. There's not a lot of room for Justin Jefferson to get too much better except for Cooper Cup.

Like that's the one standard I think that's still out of reach for Justin Jefferson. The one thing he hasn't done in this league is have like a 2,000-yard season. And if he gets sort of that same target share that Cooper Cup got, it could happen. Justin Jefferson almost slipped. He almost told us his personal goals, Matthew. He was very close to spilling the beans and telling us all of his hopes and dreams.

He caught himself. I would love to hear what he's envisioning. And he was pretty open about it. I think his first two years, what he wanted to accomplish. And if he improves even at all on last year's totals, I mean, it's going to be an outlandish season for Jefferson. And I think if they throw the ball more, he can definitely attain it. So he's pretty amped and he didn't say anything direct, but it did sound like he was pretty excited to have an offensive head coach running his meetings. And he made a point of saying that Mike Zimmer was not running those meetings and KOC definitely is. Well, I don't think it's particularly hard to figure out what Justin Jefferson wants in terms of goals. That's a lot of football is thrown his way, but also the single season receiving record of which he came so close to last year. And his head coach said, we care about wins and not Justin Jefferson's record,

even in a meaningless game, which I think if there was not already a final nail in Mike Zimmer's coffin, that was certainly it to say that about Justin Jefferson's pursuit of that record. So clearly he's going to set that as part of the bar. But Adam Thielen said something that also caught my ear, talking about wanting Kirk Cousins to have more freedom at the line of scrimmage and more freedom to sort of play fast and loose. This is interesting. We kind of always go back and forth with these Kirk Cousins things where it's like, you know, we want to set up

everything to make it really easy for him, but no way. We want him to be in command of everything and we want him to throw deep, but we want him to get rid of the ball quickly. And it's just been sort of this back and forth. Can we glean anything from Adam Thielen saying that the players will feel more free in this offense? Yeah, I mean, I think it's hard to feel free in the offense when you're learning an entirely new offense. Like, I think that you feel freedom once you feel comfortable, and that comes through reps and years and continuity. And while, like, the faces, there is good continuity, like in the personnel on offense, but all the terminology is different. And Adam Thielen,

I asked him about this. He said, it's totally different than just changing coordinators. Like this is, is literally a completely new system and terminology and play caller. And he said, even like, you don't really know what your play caller is going to do until week one and where you kind of have to learn on the fly. So I don't know if I'm totally willing to say that the Vikings are going to like feel free in this offense because they're just they're going to have to think a little bit to learn all of it. And I don't know if you want Kirk Cousins thinking too much either. So I'm prepared for growing pains early on, maybe. Like sure, I think Kirk Cousins should eventually have more autonomy. I think he should have the ability to call timeouts, call audibles. And maybe that's one way where he can tangibly like progress as a quarterback. But I don't

expect it to happen overnight. Like I think he definitely fell into like the comfortable sort of blanket of like this into the comfortable blanket of, this is the run-first scheme, the play-action scheme. I'm only going to do certain things that he did with Kubiaks and Mike Zimmer. He might be asked to do more here, and at some point, I think that that's good for him to hone that skill set, but also it's not going to just happen with the snap of a finger. Right. They should also be used to a lot of these guys adjusting to new offenses because even though the Kubiak offense remained the same from the other Kubiak offense,

there's still a change of offensive coordinators, a change of play callers, and that's happened almost every year of Kirk Cousins' career. Sometimes the coordinators have gotten promoted. Sometimes they've gotten fired. And I think that when you talk about the freedom at the line of scrimmage for Kirk Cousins, the biggest thing that you worry about is John DeFilippo wanted the same thing. He wanted a lot of checks and a lot of changes. But then you look at last year and it was a constant debate of asking everyone, how much freedom does he have? And I think what we came to is not a whole lot last season. So this will be an

interesting experiment to have Kevin O'Connell put in an offense that is different enough and does follow a bit of a different philosophy with its quarterback. But we also talked to Delvin Cook. And over the last few years, Delvin Cook has been the centerpiece of the offense. And Sam, I think that they can just use Delvin Cook a little bit wiser, even if that means a few more screen passes, a few less hammering him forward into the offensive line, and just maybe also rotating with Kenny Wongwu and other guys in the backfield to not have Delvin Cook pushing 300 carries this year. Yeah, use him smarter. I think Dalvin Cook is better and always has been better in smaller doses, to be honest with you. I mean, the big seasons of high workloads have taken a toll on his body. His effectiveness has universally waned as those seasons have gone on. I think he's a great 15 to 20 carry guy. I think if you get 25, 30, I think that's a great 15 to 20 carry guy I think if you get 25 30 I think that's a slippery slope he's got a lot of mileage you know and he's entering his late 20s so I think if you get him

on the edges in the passing game use him like once the passing game has been established if you want to like toss in a run to cook I feel like passing to set up the run is really the the right approach here and I've always likened it to Aaron Jones. Green Bay just used him brilliantly. And he was so efficient and five, five and a half yards to carry. And he was like a 200 carry a year guy. And he was extremely explosive. So that's the model that I look to for how they can use Dalvin Cook at his.

I mean, it's weird to think of him as old, but he is at an increasing age for his position. So they got to use him smartly. And we're in the number four now. Dalvin Cook thinks he's going to have a little extra boost. We'll see. Also a major storyline. The first press conference battle of Jesse Davis versus Chris Reed, the two right guards.

A lot of tension. Actually not no at all. But I would say the first round goes to Chris Reid, who had the slightly better press conference of the two right guards. But do we get a sense at all for who starts as the leader, whether it's Jesse Davis or Chris Reid? Because both of them have starting experience. Davis has played a little bit more as a starter, but Reid also has some pretty decent numbers for pro football focus that would suggest that he is also capable of doing the same thing. So who should be the leader

from day one, aside from how good they were at the podium? Yeah, I mean, Jesse Davis has pretty much been a starter five years straight. He is a starting guard, but his numbers don't reflect that he's a very good one. Chris Reed has been more of a journeyman. He's been on a bunch of different teams, one year here, two years there. He's been in and out of lineups. He has not been a full year starter nearly to the extent Davis has. The numbers would suggest he's maybe a bit better. Maybe he's been pumped up by getting to block for Christian McCaffrey and Jonathan Taylor a little bit. And now Dalvin Cook wouldn't hurt his cause either. So it's really hard for me to peg.

I think, you know, Chris Reed seems to have a little bit more momentum in his career. His numbers have actually gotten better in recent years. But Davis does have that experience where maybe he's a tad more trustworthy or maybe his floor is a little higher. Really tough for me to say we're not talking about Quentin Nelson here and so I mean I guess I go read but only by a hair and I think that could change and uh it certainly can because we won't really know until training camp starts and gets going in full pad several weeks into camp uh where those two stand but we uh talk to both today and I I mean they give off strong offensive lineman vibes. I mean, they're the, you know,

these guys don't like to self promote. They don't like to be at the podium, but it was interesting to hear Jesse Davis talk about his career path and how he's changed positions and played on the defensive side. And then Chris Reed is the ultimate journeyman's journeyman who went to Mankato and then to the Jaguars practice squad and then up and up and up. And as you said, it's just interesting to see linemen who have developed over the years and the Vikings hoping to catch a lightning in the bottle. So there's your update from TCO Performance Center of what we learned today. We did not get Justin Jefferson to tear up as his excitement of having Kirk Cousins cousins back but he did talk about um you know

showing up no matter who the quarterback is so you know there was also that i don't know if you make anything of how little just Jefferson had to say about kirk cousins returning but the whole vibe around kirk cousins including his press conference yesterday was kind of a lot of we're back here we are yeah a little bit digs in and that like we we never knew if digs was mad at cousins or zimmer and it turned out it was probably zimmer and and you know maybe jefferson if he had any angst last year maybe that was also more toward the head coach and very well could be wouldn't be alone in that all right so make sure you listen to our longer conversations wherever you get your podcasts and we will talk to you again soon