Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - PFF's Eric Eager talks us into the 2021 Vikings

Episode Date: June 6, 2021

Matthew Coller and PFF's Eric Eager get together to play a game of "talk me into it..." They challenge each other to talk us into Chad Beebe as a good WR3, a Kirk Cousins extension, the Packers being a threat without Jordan Love, the Detroit Lions and the Vikings winning the 2021 Super Bowl Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm like so worried about my sister. I'm engaged. You cannot marry a murderer. I was sick, but I am healing. New season on W Network and Stack TV. The West Side Ripper is back. If you're not killing these people, then who is? That's what I want to know.

Starring Kaley Cuoco and Chris Messina. The only investigating I'm doing these days is we pooped their pants. Killer messaged you yesterday? This is so dangerous. I got to get out of this. Based on a true story. New season Mondays only only on w stream live and on demand on stack tv so Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here in live and in person in Minnesota. Eric Eager from Pro Football Focus. This feels great, Eric, to do a podcast with you in person for the first time. I think that you and I have been together in person for this

since maybe the 2019 Combine or 2020 Comb 2020 combine must have been was the last time we actually got together like this i feel like we did a podcast at the 2020 combine on a bench in the middle of those two uh the the jw marriott and the other uh hotel there that was that was pretty fun those were wild time we were only a month away from everything and now we're back right back right and uh that was one also where like sage and i would have to find a random space it's so hard to find any place to actually get like quiet because there are just thousands of people wandering through these halls and then if it is quiet it's like well something important must be going on near us so we're just broadcasting really loudly to every person who's walking by.

So, you know, the GM of the Seahawks is like, what are you guys doing? Yelling loudly on a bench in this convention center. I got to say the funniest part, my favorite combine moment, 2019, I was on the escalator. I think I might even, no, I wasn't talking to you I was talking to somebody else but I was ripping the Vikings offense a new one and I turn around and like two stairs up was like John D Filippo who was obviously the author of that offense for much of the year and yeah that was uh interesting you gotta you to watch what you say sort of at that place. Yeah, that's right.

That's funny. It's always like that to go to certain places and run into people that you have blatantly criticized. Sometimes if they're with the Vikings and I know them already, it's like, what's up? How are you? But usually everybody's cool at at that point like everyone's kind of chill at the combine um so anyway but that is the last time that you and i were together in person so we're here again we're very happy about it we're going to a lynx game after we record this so exciting times um and because it's 90 degrees and it's otas and it And it's the season to maybe kick our feet up a little bit and have some fun.

I invented a game for this podcast that I want to call Talk Me Into It. So we've got a bunch of statements or opinions or just whatever it is about all over the league. But we'll connect them to the Minnesota Vikings too. I'll present one to you and you have to try to talk me into it. You one to you, and you have to try to talk me into it. You present one to me. I have to try to talk you into it. That's the game. Okay.

So I'm just going to start it off to make the game clear of how we're doing it. Talk me into the Minnesota Vikings offensive line being good this year. And the thing is, the rules of the game are you have to do it. You have to do it. You have to do it. You have to talk me into it. So even if you don't believe it, you can address that along the way, but you have to talk me into it because I get this question all the time

about the Vikings offensive line, and I was talking with Renner about it the other day, and I'm just a little skeptical that Wyatt Davis, Christian Derrissaw, Ezra Cleveland, these unproven commodities, will instantly be much better than they were last year even if you know one of those players is probably going to be better than Dakota Dozier so you have to talk me into it that the Vikings offensive line will be much better yeah that's a good one um well look I'm gonna call balls and strikes a little bit here

I had with in my projection system i was showing you over here christian derisaw was actually a top you know let's just put it this way he was closer to panay sewell and rashaan slater than the market and what ended up being the draft order suggested so i think he'll be good um riley reef was actually fairly good last year he gave up one sack he was you know in he gave up a good pressure rate. I think a lot of that is Kubiak, who is no longer there. His son's now the OC. But some guys hit the ground running.

Tristan Wirfs last year, a Super Bowl-winning right tackle for Tampa Bay right off of being drafted. So he's good. Wyatt Davis is, again, a guard who we've graded really well. All the linemen in this draft, though, shorter arms. That's an issue. And I think in his case might have been one of the reasons he fell to Minnesota. No, actually, not so bad there for a guard. And Ezra Cleveland last year was in me and PFF George's first round mock draft.

So I regard him relatively highly. So those three guys are guys that I liked coming out of college. And Garrett Bradbury is not somebody I like coming out of college. I don't think he's graded well. But obviously, the research from my group says that offensive linemen progress well. So if you get progression from Brian O'Neill from good to elite, Bradbury from not so good to average and you get average play from these three linemen it suggests that the offensive line as a whole could be good and the depth guys now are guys who started from them at times so to me that that's how the Vikings offensive line ends up ends up being pretty good well another part of it is what you mentioned

there that the backups that they have may not be great, but they're capable. And sometimes if you drop off from a good player starter to incapable, like drew Samia last year, you see what happens. I mean, one player could take apart the whole thing. So even though I know fans don't love Dakota Dozier and they shouldn't as a starter previously, he was a fine backup offensive lineman who could just pop in for a game or two and i

think that in 2019 he did a good job of that but you know they asked him to play the whole season last year it's just a really really really rough ride for him but rashad hill you have mason cole they went out and got and as a backup mason cole is probably fine someone who's experienced that could play a couple games what i think we'll see from rookies is probably inconsistency where one game might be pretty tough for wyatt davis one game might be pretty tough for christian derisaw but if you're putting five guys across the line who are all top three round talents your odds are good that talent will win out here that this is not trying to just tape it together by getting people like Dakota Dozier and hoping the guy becomes Joe Berger because that's not really a very good play Joe Berger was kind of lucky like this is a very good play to build an offensive line like this yeah and we've seen like in your time covering the

Vikings right like the issue wasn't going into the season with Phil Lodeholt it was getting him hurt and then having to start TJ Clemmings for 16 games um the issue is almost never like you know the 2016 season where Andre Smith you know and Matt Khalil get hurt and you're starting you know Jeremiah Searles out of position or you're starting you know TJ Clemmings at left tackle this time I will will say another feather in the Vikings' cap, and this is something where I think their schedule gets hard at the end of the year. But going in, starting out, you have Cincinnati, who's not a terribly good defense. Arizona does have J.J. Watt and Chandler Jones, who are good. But then you have Seattle.

Cleveland's got a good defensive line. Detroit doesn't. Carolina doesn't. And Dallas doesn't. So you look at the beginning schedule, you can get off on the right foot for them. And maybe it builds that confidence. It's sort of, you know, it's a low stakes place for the offense to find out how they can work with an offensive line with a bunch of young players.

OK, I like it. I think you did a good job there for your first talk me into it. I'm not completely convinced because I do think there will be some rough patches. But a great point, though, for these these guys first experience to go out there against Cincinnati is kind of what you would want. Like Carl Lawson doesn't even play there anymore. I'm not sure if they have a single super dangerous player on their front four at this point. So, all right, you're one, you're first for me. What am I talking you into? talk me into chad bb as the vikings wide receiver three uh okay well all right so one thing that i will give chad bb is that short spaces and i don't

mean that to make fun of his height i mean mean, short routes, small spaces, the guy legitimately gets open. And you even go back to his first NFL catch was on a fourth down where he was in the slot and he was lined up one-on-one with somebody and he made a quick break and he has incredibly quick feet and he got open and he made an eight yard catch. And when you look at this offense and what they have, if everyone is healthy and sort of my wide receiver three point has been fundamentally about the health of the other two wide receivers. If anybody goes down, then Chad Beebe, I can't talk you into him being wide receiver two. But talking you into wide receiver three is can you create sort of specific roles for these guys? So B.C. Johnson is probably just going to be odd man out.

But if you have someone emerges somewhat of a deep threat that you can mix in and you have Chad Beebe who could come in and be this underneath guy. So let's say it's third and six and he gets you seven because he could get open in short area. The other thing is too, that he is more experienced. And I, what we see with Mike Zimmer is that guys with experience just seem to gel better with Zimmer and I am no longer into only talking about the offense as belonging to the offensive coordinator the offense belongs to Zimmer over these last couple of years so he's going to play who he wants to play on the offensive side if he trusts Chad Beebe enough to have him for wide receiver three and you're only talking about 20 to 30 targets for the wide receiver three and Tyler Conklin

is mixing in and maybe you're using running backs a little more out of the backfield the passing game because I think Gary did not use them as effectively as Kevin Stefanski the year before then you're talking about the bigger situations you have, your two receivers who could do anything, Irv Smith who could go down the field and was 10th in yards per catch last year for tight ends, and a guy who does one thing well. I, of course, think they should have gotten someone else.

I still think they should have gotten someone else. And we've talked about it a lot on the show, but if bb does that one thing well it could be fine the vikings best option for wide receiver three is adam phelan unfortunately and the and but that sort of underscores the fact that they don't have wide receiver two uh sort of working its way i think phelan would have a phelan phelan's chances of taking his career five more years as opposed to a couple more years is to get to 30 snaps a game. Using his versatility, using his craftiness and speed, I mean, he still is really fast.

The issue, I think, is Vikings fans who have watched the team draft Randy Moss, who have watched the team play Anthony Carter, Jake Reed, Chris Carter, and now Justin Jefferson replacing Stephon Diggs. The league is built off of receivers that do one or two things well and play good roles. And the Vikings have never been that type of team. And unfortunately, I think that that curtails their ability to sort of deploy a wide receiver by committee, which a lot of teams do. Here's a question that I'll just say. Should they be in the Julio Jones market? Well, cap space-wise, one of the issues is they've done everything. I mean, I don't know what there is left to do. If they could cut Harrison Smith or trade Harrison Smith,

that would be very shocking, and I don't see. Like, you're going to pry Harrison Smith out that would be very shocking. And I don't see like you're going to pry Harrison Smith out of Mike Zimmer's cold, dead hands. So I don't think I don't. He might be dead by the time you pry him out of Zimmer's dead hands. Right. So he's going to hang on to Harrison Smith. You could trade Daniel Hunter maybe as part of a Julio trade. I don't know.

But that doesn't seem like a huge win for the Vikings necessarily with Julio's age and his health concerns. So how are you doing it is another question for should you do it? Should you do it? The answer is, oh, my God, yes. Like, why would you? Like, think of this offense. I mean, Julio Jones, Adam Thielen, Justin Jefferson,

and Irv Smith Jr. with Delvin Cook in the backfield is a Super Bowl team. I just don't know how you get them without sacrificing something significant that they wouldn't sacrifice, even though I probably would. Yeah, what you have to do if you're Minnesota, I agree with you on the cap stuff. But the reports out, I mean, what day is it right now? It's June 4th. Julio Jones had been traded in most people's minds by now

the reports coming out that like teams like i'm not for it if you have to give up a one i'm not for it if you have to take on all of julio's money but if julio's still disgruntled and doesn't want to play in atlanta i mean i think the the right solution for julio's to play in atlanta for one more year um but if he is dead set on not playing in at, but the rest of the teams in the NFL are saying, we'll give you a two and we'll make Atlanta, we'll make Atlanta pay for part of that salary. Like that to me is how Minnesota could sneak into this argument. But nonetheless,

let me respond to that real quick. The one case to do it for a one for next year is that you have your offensive line built. You have your receivers set. You have your tight end in a pretty good spot. And your quarterback is capable, if given all these things, of taking his game to a higher level, I think. Even if he's 2016 Kirk in Washington,

where he had kind of a perfect scenario, that was one of the better expected points added passing offenses. Pierre Garcon was like a poor man's Julio in that offense. And I think, you know, obviously Julio would be the exact version of Julio if acquired. So, but also if you're Mike Zimmer and Rick Spielman and you look at that and you go, like, why the hell not? I mean, everyone's talking about our jobs being up for grabs anyway. And if Julio comes here and he gets hurt, then we're going to go nine and eight or something. And what's the difference?

But if Julio comes here and plays 15 games or 14 games and is dominant as he always is, and Adam Thielen is a slot receiver, you could win like 14 games if you're the Vikings. If you have Julio Jones, I think there would be that big of an impact on the offense because we've talked about this a little bit before being 11th as an offense is okay. It's fine. You're never going to go two and 15 by being 11th, but the way to really win. And I, I checked on this the other night, every team since 2015 that went to the Superbowl had a top five expected points added passing offense. You want to get there? I mean,

I think Julio legitimately could take them from 11th to being one of the three or four best offenses in the NFL. Yeah. So is that, that's like a talk me into Julio. I'm taught. I'm also talked into Julio. This started with Chad BB,

but I'm talked into Julio. All right, let me throw one back your way and then we can go.'s some other ones from not just the vikings uh that i that i want to get to and i want to start with this one um that is like connected to the vikings talk me into it being fine that the vikings did not make a better effort to get justin fields than just going well below the Justin or the chart, the chart, whatever it is, the Jimmy Johnson chart. So talk me into somehow that being a good idea.

Yeah, I feel like the Vikings effort to get Justin Fields is very similar to not getting reservations on your anniversary, but taking your wife to the, or let's say Valentine's Day, where it's packed. You take your wife to the, to the, or let's say Valentine's day where it's like packed. You take your wife to like the restaurant and you're like, Oh, sorry, honey.

It's a 50 minute wait. And it's like, well, no, but you should have got reservations. Dumbass. I'm like, so like I,

the Vikings sort of like, like tried, like they played just a tip with trying to get Justin Fields there. But obviously like they weren't willing to like throw in an extra fourth. I don't get it, but here's the part I do get, and I will defend the Vikings in this sense. It's the same reason why Atlanta didn't do it. The Niners traded so much for the third pick that any trade up for a top 10 pick was going to look minuscule by by by comparison so atlanta was never going to get something for the fourth pick that looked anything like san francisco got for the third pick for

trey lance and by extension carolina similarly right and so atlanta has two more years of matt ryan all the edge with a rookie quarterback is generated by playing him for less than $10 million a year, as opposed to teams like Detroit, Minnesota, paying their guy $35 million a year. Kirk is not going to be supplanted for a rookie quarterback in year one. So you're already giving up 25% or 20%, depending on if you extend him for the fifth year, of that edge right away. And then we're seeing this with Green Bay we saw it a little bit with Alex Smith in Kansas City when you draft that guy

you are you are the only thing that that helps you in that subsequent season is for the guy to have a career year which Kirk has already had the last two years so it would it was going to be an awkward situation every single year we say yeah but the next quarterback class is going to be an awkward situation. Every single year we say, yeah, but the next quarterback class is going to be butt, but Zach Wilson comes up one year, Joe Burrow comes up the next. So I'm at peace with it if I'm a Vikings fan, if I'm confident that they're willing to take the step next year when it's more natural for them to move on from Kirk. This year was a little bit awkward.

Still should have done it, but I can see why not. Okay, I'm not talking to it, but you did a good job. And really, the best part of what you did there was you didn't make it about Justin Fields because I think that sometimes fans have a tendency to say, oh, well, it's okay they didn't trade up for Fields because I don't like this about his game and those and those are where like those things i just don't accept and and this was with the mac jones thing

too where it's like i just don't accept that you can scout mac jones i i do accept that the nfl can i don't accept that i can or that you can effectively the whole league though and the new england patriots though deciding he's a first round pick um that is more convincing to me about what he could be in the nfl than it is for you to say oh i don't like his footwork in the pocket or something because i watched him on television and so you know you're not really making it about fields he's clearly not a perfect prospect though or he would have been taken at the very top someone told me the epilepsy thing mattered to some teams so maybe the Vikings had

a couple of concerns and said all right well it's not worth giving up the farm for there are also reports so this is an interesting thing there are also reports that the the coaching staff out of Georgia were saying bad things about him now you can ignore the Georgias of the world, but they are a team that produces a lot of NFL players. So here's the thing. If you go against what Georgia says, then the next time you actually want information on a player, Georgia might be less reticent to give it to you.

So there are interpersonal things or issues here. There also were reports that he was second on Jacksonville's board, which says says you know so like there are there are interesting aspects of it the mac jones thing like i'll say this about the vikings the vikings should have taken mac jones at 14 i think the vikings did the best they could conditioned on not taking a quarterback like i thought the trade with the jets was terrific i thought the draft pick of darryl shaw was awesome if you weren't just like with uh kyle pitts to atlanta if you're not going to take a quarterback there that's the best thing you could have done but you should have taken a quarterback

right right right yeah and you know here's one other part of it though that i would in you talking me into it but me like talking myself into it as well is there will be someone else next year who is available as a quarterback if you want to move on i, I don't know who it is, but it will happen. It'll happen. And we, you know, like no one saw Tom Brady to the bucks coming at the end of Brady's time in new England. Like when that season ended was that 2019 season ended. No one said, Oh man, look out for them bucks and tom brady to get together

and go win a super bowl i think that you know most people said oh he'll bat he'll be back he'll be back with new england and so forth uh so a lot a lot changes from year to year and so if the vikings do want to move on from cousins eventually someone else will be there the other argument would be too that look the bears were able to get their hands on a quarterback who's really good by trading up so if the vikings are drafting 20th next year and if they're drafting any later than 20th and kirk probably played really well so there's like this sweet spot of you probably can make this happen for whoever is there next year there's also quarterbacks like mac jones that emerge that we don't expect and so that's another part of it.

All right. What's what? That takes me to my next. You're next. My next one, which is talk me into another Kirk Cousins extension. Oh, man. OK. OK.

Let's see. All right. I've got it. So the team right now, I think I saw this somewhere, is the sixth youngest team in the NFL. And even if you pull up their roster, which I have somewhere here on my internet, um, it's incredible to me when you search it by age, how few players are actually old for the Vikings. So you have their punter, their long snapper, Harrison Smith is 32. Uh, they have Adam Thielen at 30, Patrick Peterson at 30. That's it. That's 30 year olds for the Minnesota Vikings.

So if I'm talking you into an extension, it's, it's look, you're going to actually have a lot of good players who are on their rookie contracts still, including Justin Jefferson, including Christian Darisaw. I mean, that's your left tackle and your number one wide receiver right there. You drafted one good cornerback, I think. We'll see if the other one is in jail or not. We really don't know with Jeff Gladney, but right now it's not a great situation. But you have at least one. You've had, I mean, just a ton of other draft picks who we saw the last time around when they

emerged as a team where you had guys sort of surprise you fifth round draft picks who all of a sudden become good and that kind of thing eric kendricks is still an elite player so if you decide again next year to focus the draft on just making yourself better as a defense with assuming an extension has to go along with him playing good this year there's like no other way i can work with this i can't say i can't say that they go 5 and 12 and then extend them so that would be contingent on you had a good season you could be looked at because of the age of your team and the players on rookie contracts as that sort of makes up the difference.

And you can even trim the fat a little bit after this year, like Anthony Barr leaving. They started that process with Kyle Rudolph. And so this is a completely turned over roster around Kirk Cousins. You could get to the point where you have another 2017 season. And this is the history of the Vikings is basically a roster rises and peaks and then gets old and falls and then does it again. Why wouldn't that happen again with Kirk? If you get the peaking roster with a bad quarterback, if you draft one and it doesn't work out, then what do you get? Then you blow it. Then you blow a great roster with bad quarterback

play, which is actually what we saw from Chicago the last three seasons. So the sort of guarantee would be on the box for what you're going to get at quarterback. How's that? I don't hate it. They will have, I mean, they're not like in salary cap hell going into next year, but you do have, I mean, so the issue is what has to go right for this to make sense for the Vikings? I think you have to hit on Dantzler. You have to hit on Hunter, which is not clear to me. The problem with the Hunter thing is it's catch-22. If you let him go, you do get some cap savings, but it's not actually that much.

And you don't have an NFL-c NFL caliber defensive end on the rest of the roster unfortunately so you have to hit on you have to hit on you know one of those linebackers that's young you have to hit on you know a corner and Dantzler you have to get one of these lower drafted edge players to work out you have to get the offensive line there and like then it's like okay you have to go Brian O o'neill and kirk cousins and i just think that gets a little bit of a squeeze plus you also need this and i think you brought it up which is great unlike with the quarterback discussion with the draft this is very specific to this quarterback who as much as i'll rip him has had two straight seasons that you

can consider pretty damn good yeah and the problem is is when you have a quarterback who is sort of in that second tier, the great years as we've seen with Matt Ryan and Matthew Stafford and Jared Goff and all those guys that are sort of in that tier, to expect him to continue to get this good is, to me, a bridge too far. And so it's probably going to end up where he plays well, but not well enough. And not all these coins come up heads here. Right.

So you basically have to have like, it would have to be like a Derek Carr 12-4 season. And then when that happens, you have to win. Right. That's a huge point. You make a great point about that. When I look at teams like the 2017 Eagles, And so that's a huge point. Like you make a great point about that. The, the, when I look at teams like the 2017 Eagle, so everybody looks at the Eagles and is sad about what happened.

I'm happy about actually what happened. Cause when it was their year and there were still a ton of injuries, God damn, they won. Right. When it was like 2019 Ravens, it was their year. They're fucking 10, 10,

100 of an expected point better than anybody in the league. And they lose to the titans when it's your year you gotta win and that's like been the biggest issue with the vikings is when it's their year they've lost last three times and then they chase and then it's like okay what are we supposed to do here that to me again i think that the most likely outcome is kirk's not quite good enough but you know enough of these draft picks it to be encouraging, but fans might not like it, but then it's go back to the quarterback. Well at the draft.

And there is another point to say that, look, I mean, if you draft a quarterback who turns out really well for you and then your roster peaks, but you also have money to fill in every gap. Like that's where, that's where the Philadelphia Eagles, they had a bunch of draft picks that worked for them,

but also added Elshon Jeffrey and Torrey Smith, who was big for them. Patrick Robinson. Right, exactly. And they were able to supplement. Chris Long was a backup on that team. Jordan Hicks was good. And, you know, they had, as you said, they got a Jay Ajayi in the middle of the season.

Like they could just, right, when you hit on a quarterback, you know all these things can be added to the roster because you have so many more resources Kansas City Sammy Watkins was a 16 million dollar player as their wide receiver three like right you know and that happens when your quarterback's good and and more importantly you're you cut bait on the older veteran quarterback when when it's time all, talk me into the Green Bay Packers still being dangerous at all if Aaron Rodgers is a Bronco. Okay, for the record, I don't think he's going to be traded.

I think he's either going to retire or he's going to play for Green Bay. Okay, but still. If Aaron Rodgers is traded yeah talk me into some reason why i or vikings fans should be concerned still about the green bay packers now and forever i mean it could be now and it could be also the short and long term okay um here's here's what i'll say why did the packers draft why did the packers draft um Jordan Love to begin with why do they trade assets to draft Jordan Love I would assume because they believed he'd be their future

quarterback after Aaron Rodgers left because Aaron Rodgers was fading at the time exactly so that's what I'll say so that that team in 2019 was 13-3. Now they had the point differential of a 10-6 team, all that kind of stuff. But even if they were just a 10-6 team, they meet your requirements here. I think Matt LaFleur is a pretty dang good coach. And I think they have a good – last season they had the most valuable corner in the league, the most valuable safety, the most valuable left tackle, the most valuable center, now the center left, and the most valuable wide receiver.

There's some good talent on that team. Zedarius preston smith they've given the vikings fits over the years are very good players rashaun gary was a good draft pick um and rogers is good as he was last season he was worthy of a quarterback for whom a team was trying to move on if jordan love is 80 of what Rodgers was in 2019, fundamentally, that Packers team could still win 10 games. I think that last season, the division's so bad, right? That they could still win that many games, even if Jordan Love is the QB.

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Code Purple Insider for free shipping. Yeah, again, I think you tried hard. It's really the only thing that I think Vikings fans should be afraid of is fear itself. Is that, look, the last time this happened, you told this story on your podcast the pff forecast podcast about like celebrating farve's exit from green bay just being like oh man that will never happen again like oh you tortured me for so many years and now this other schmo is gonna come in here and there's no ways as good and then he turns out to be as good, if not, I mean, better. Probably better.

Yeah, probably better at sometimes in his career. So that part of it, if you're a Vikings fan who's always thinking of the worst possible outcome, you're thinking, look, this Utah State clown who can't even throw accurate passes in college is going to come in here and become the next, you know, Patrick Mahomes. And then you're going to have, you know, Patrick Mahomes. And then you're going to have, um, you know, that, that just continue. I think that Vikings fans should be far more worried about, um, Justin Fields being in their division than they should Jordan love based on both players histories. And they should actually be a little afraid down the road of Detroit, uh, blowing up and then drafting high and then getting a number one quarterback and

then having a bunch of good quarterbacks, even more than love. The reason I still am not talked into this being concerned about it is this year they could win the division. Their cap situation long-term is not great. They signed a running back to a contract that I don't think is a good idea. They've not drafted particularly well. I don't think, um, you they've not drafted particularly well i don't think um you know defenses are fragile as you guys talk about all the time again even if matt lafleur is a good coach i don't care how good of a coach you are if your quarterback is not really good and your roster fades and look like david boctieri is not going to be elite forever right so i don't think they're i think they're a threat to win the division this year.

And then everyone would say, oh, oh, they won 10 games. They're going to be ascending. And I'm not sure that's really going to be the case long term. If Jordan Love even is just like middle of the road. However, the Vikings found ways to lose to Mitch Trubisky. So you never you never you never do know. Yeah. The history of the Vikings losing to bad quarterbacks in this division. Maybe not from Detroit as Kirk Kirk Kirk has slayed detroit in the past um okay i'm actually right on the same wavelength as you and i think this is this is going to stretch you a little bit

talk me into the detroit lions winning the nfc north in 2021 come on okay uh So, all right. Zombies attack. They come up from the dead and they eat Kirk Cousins' brain. And so he is a vegetable and Kellen Mond isn't ready. So Jake Browning starts and then Justin Jefferson decides that he's afraid of the zombies eating his brain. So he retires. And then the Detroit Lions win because the only team left and there were zombies in Minnesota. No. Okay. I can do this. I can do this. So they won five games last year. Matt, Patricia's terrible with the worst coach,

the worst coach I have ever seen. Now, I didn't see less steckle or whatever the hell his name was, but like there is, there was a stat for the Lions that their defense over the last three years allowed not only the highest quarterback rating in the NFL over the last three had a decent quarterback, good weapons on the offensive side, and enough defensive talent, some of it which ran away from him, enough defensive talent to be competent. And not only were they not competent, the Lions were a laughingstock because of their coach to the point where Darius Slay is like telling people how funny it was that they wouldn't play anything except for the same coverage all the time. If Dan Campbell comes in and I know

that everyone's making fun of him for the kneecaps and he's wearing a racing helmet. If Dan Campbell and his good staff of competent coaches can take the talent that they had at someone like Jeff Okuda, who's a disaster. Well, okay. Well now he's got a coach that makes sense or like knows what he's doing. If they can take that. And then Jared Goff, who I think is a little unfairly criticized is similar to Matt Stafford, who is the most overrated quarterback of my lifetime. And they won five games last year. is there a difference there of like four games and then the division isn't that good no probably not but maybe like the offensive line

is decent they've got a decent running back like could they possibly put together this 15th best defense 15th best offense type of thing get a couple of good field goals from matt prater from 70 yards away and and win a division that's not going to be good if aaron rogers retires and the vikings go eight nine because of some injuries like is it possible like yeah it actually is sure yeah i'll say it they have the best offensive line in the division yeah they do yeah like taylor decker's a good football player panacea is the best offensive lineman in the draft frank reg now just got a contract extension um jonah jackson's fine and you look at that offense and of course they're weak at past you know targets but brashad perriman

brett perriman's son it was a former first round pick tyrell williams is a one former 1 000 yard receiver for the los angeles chargers calif raymond as vikings fans know is a good deep threat and on offense they have deandre swift jamal williams guys who can play running back pretty well i love that you remember calif raymond's big play the titans or whatever yeah um and you look at the defensive side of the ball, Trey Flowers, Michael Brockers. There's this guy on the team named John Penasini, which has got to be the best name. He plays defensive tackle.

I don't think you could say that on this podcast. Yeah, yeah, true. And Jamie Collins is a good linebacker. Jeffrey Okuda is a top three pick that could come around. They obviously have flaws for sure. But if you catch the right variance and the rest of the division is bad, it's not like Jared Goff is Spurgeon win. He's a middle-of-the-pack quarterback.

They have TJ Hawkins as a top-ten pick. We've seen that the year that the Buffalo Bills tried to tank and made the playoffs, I mean, Anthony Lynn was the offensive coordinator for that team the year before. You could do worse than the Lions. That being said, I do think they tank. But they're not going to be like this easy out like they've been the whole Kirk era. There's no question to me that this team will be more challenging defensively for everyone than it was because you can't get worse.

That is historically bad for matt patricia and the lions so even if aaron glenn takes them to being a middle of the pack defense which i think you can do in a single year the vikings are hoping for it to go from the worst defense to middle of the pack or a little better um then i just i don't understand like maybe some x's and o's people will have to explain to me why jared goff sort of gets the flack that he gets. I don't think he's got good weapons here, but the offensive line with the Rams was really good in those first couple of years. And when he had time to throw, just like her cousins, he was fairly accurate down the field and he won a lot of dang football games. Like, I don't know when a guy has the ceiling of someone

who could take you to the Superbowl. I don't say you're going to win two games. I think you're going to win more than that. And I also have respect for the fact that he broke his hand last year, kept playing, won a playoff game. I know that defense was a big part of it, but I don't think Jared Goff's a joke at all. So if I'm talking you into it, then I guess that's probably the best I can do.

Speaking of players who have played a lot of playoff games in recent years uh breaking news here the Vikings have agreed to terms with Bishat Breeland cornerback Kansas City Chiefs this won't be breaking news when this is published yeah but but it was breaking news but I think that's interesting certainly um uh it's a good choice I yeah it's a very good choice breeland breeland was always a guy that people have found expendable people think that this scheme helped him a lot in kansas city um but uh not a bad signing i think it it certainly as you says makes your defense less fragile hey everyone i want to tell you about our friends it's scout logistics and i really do mean

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No. This is how intense Novocaine sounds. Oh, wow. Imagine how it looks. big time nova k only in theaters march 14th okay do you have any more do you have any more for me because i have the ender i have okay i'll do one more i have like the talk me into it of all talk me into it talk me into mike zimmer getting a contract extension oh to me this one's not not super hard i mean well he already did so this is like this is more of me into like a five-year like brad childress post 20 2009 extension if i'm talking you into it well that means it's like doing it at this moment is a little more challenging because

of where they stand. But here, here's what it actually connects with. The last thing is like the Detroit lions had a very good and competent NFL coach in Jim Caldwell. And now look, Jim Caldwell is not a great coach. He was not like Vince Lombardi or something.

I mean, but he's a good coach and he set a baseline for you of very uh competent organizational functionality like you know so when you show up to be a Minnesota Vikings you know you know or Viking you don't get there go oh my god what is what are you guys doing here or like what is this scheme we're playing? What is this offense we're doing? Like you show up and it is a great defensive mind and it is an offense that can frustrate wide receivers for sure. But at the same time, it's also one that's very effective in the NFL.

Half the offensive coordinators under Zimmer have gotten head coaching jobs afterwards. Like, you know, it's not the most stable thing in the world, but it's not, it's not like, I have a lot of, I have some criticisms of Mike Zimmer, but none of them are they he's made the Vikings a joke. Right, right, right. That's the thing is, so you know where you're going to stand. You know, that he knows how to do his job. You know, that if you have the defensive talent, that you have a chance to be the number one defense because he's going to be as good as anyone schematically you know that he's going to lead an organization competently and that there's a certain standard that gets set under Mike Zimmer for his players that they routinely reach and we've seen many players maximize their talents

and become all pros pro bowlers future hall of famers potentially in the case of harrison smith and when you look at a lot of the coaches that have won the super bowl which is not the perfect way to do it but it is a way to look at it a lot of them didn't do it right away a lot of them needed multiple years some of them needed their teams to kind of roster wise go down and then peak back up. Like he would not be at all. Bill Cowher comes to mind. Bill Cowher is a hard nose defensive guy that sometimes rub people the wrong way.

That could be, you know, he said that scowl and everything else. And my God, was he old school? He took slash and made him into like an eye form too tight end handoff guy and then said, oh yeah, but go make us great plays too. So Bill Cower had plenty of criticisms and what happened? He got the right quarterback and then he wins a Superbowl. And so I think that if you're looking at Zimmer saying, do you want to move on from Kirk and draft someone else, but then have a new head coach that might be Freddie Kitchens or might be Matt Patricia or might be Adam Gase. It's always the next G or might be Zach Taylor, who I'm not convinced is any freaking good. Like, so I, you know, I think that, or Cliff

Kingsbury, even, Oh, look at this big, sexy guy from college. Oh my God. Look how attractive he is. Great. He's not good. or at least at this moment he's not you know that mike zimmer is yeah i mean for every dungy into gruden right we see a number of like childress into frazier or um you know caldwell into patricia like we see it and you're right i mean i think andy reed comes to mind too We're talking about a guy who no Super Bowl wins until way late in his career. He was in a lot of title games, but Zimmer's taken the Vikings to an NFC title game. You even saw it with Bruce Arians this past year. I think I was one, admittingly, who I thought Bruce Arians was the underdog coach in every single playoff game this year. I thought he, except for maybe the Washington game and ultimately he emerges that, that is the thing. I mean, I, I do think bad coaching. So on one hand, bad coaching is, I think a lot worse than great coaching is great, but bad coaching is the fastest way to be bad, which is the quickest way to be where a team like the jets is right now.

We have a good young coach and a good young quarterback prospect, to me, the risk of bottoming out in the NFL is not that high. So if you do so, even if you're like the Bengals and you had to slog through Zach Taylor for three years, you come out of it with a new head coach and Joe Burrow possibly, right? That might be worth it for a Minnesota team that has not had that young player at quarterback. But Zimmer certainly does get this year.

All right, here it is. All right. The ender, the finale, the grand finale, some might say. Talk me into the Minnesota Vikings winning the Super Bowl in 2021. Actually, it's not that hard, right? Think about it. Look, the Vikings are underdogs to make the playoffs in the betting market, I think, still. The money is coming on Minnesota.

People like Minnesota in the betting markets. They always sort of have. Kirk Cousins, I think, is a little bit overrated there. But NFC, extremely flat. Tell me, besides Tampa Bay, Matthew, what's an elite NFC team? A team where if they placed Minnesota, the Vikings would be a touchdown underdog or more rogers is not in this rogers is like yeah assume rogers is gone and even then

the vikings were only six point underdogs to green bay in lambeau last year i might say seattle a team they went 12 and 4 last seattle is the third uh highest odds to win their own division this year that's weird yeah. Yeah, isn't that crazy? That's a good bet, by the way, if you want to. Yeah, I think that that's off. I'm not ready to tell you Dallas. San Francisco I would be if I knew for sure who was playing quarterback, but I'm not sure.

I mean, this is a fair point that there are many teams that could go either way. What's the cocktail in 2017? It was Rodgers gets hurt, Packers aren't very good detroit nine and seven but not really a and the bears are bad under john fox and mitch trubisky and the rest of the nfc is nowhere to be found right that's the cocktail for the vikings that was the cocktail back then that is one now and you think about it okay what if what if trey lance comes up snake eyes in san francisco that's not a great team what if if Matthew Stafford? I agree with you. I don't like Stafford long-term.

I think the LA Rams are a paper tiger. What if that doesn't work? Okay. In your own division, you are the best. You are the favorite in your own division if they trade Rodgers. Point blank. Full stop. In the NFC East, like, are you really scared of Ryan Fitzpatrick?

Because that's the second best team in that division. If you even count Dallas, who, again, no defense, good quarterback is he more of a kirk or is he a mahomes he's a good question about dac and then if you look at the nfc south yeah certainly tampa but you look at carolina's no not good yet dysfunctional is all get out new orleans is starting jamis or tasem hill and then you're talking about the falcons who are about to trade Julio Jones. This conference is wide open. So you can make a case, as good of one as any, that you don't need somebody better than Kirk Cousins to win the Super Bowl in the NFC this year.

And then once you get in the – look, once they get in the game with the Chiefs, they're 10-point underdogs. I'm sorry. But, like, the AFC is such a – it's sort of like in basketball when the West was such a crazy conference and LeBron's teams would just coast through. And that's how they won the one series because they weren't as beat up when they got to the Super Bowl. If the NFC is easy, the AFC, you've got to go through Buffalo, Cleveland, Baltimore, Pittsburgh if you're drunk,

Kansas City. You know, this is a good conference of teams. You might come out of the wash facing Cleveland in the Super Bowl, a tattered Cleveland, and you run through the NFC as the one seed if you're kind of lucky. So I do think this is a year that sets up nicely if the Vikings get lucky. Well done. Well done.

I'm holding a microphone, so I can't clap normally. If I was on a zoom call, I'd be clapping. Well done. Uh, yeah, I'll be, uh, I'll be convinced when I see it, but yeah, but, but that's exactly right. And that's what makes this season so compelling is a, there is a path there there didn't feel like one last year really uh b they have a lot of things that are sort of resting on this and resting on getting their cousins zimmer like their futures spielman's future here everything is sort of culminating with this season and you have a chance and you made the moves to try and do it. And I still feel very strongly that there is going to be another one that comes, like another move that changes this roster that is not just Bashad Breeland. Hey, I feel good about this.

I predicted him to the Vikings like two years ago when he was a free agent. I've been waiting for this to happen. So that's a good move for them. The other thing is is and i talked about this earlier in the pod the schedule is also similar like like we look at schedules as oh this could be a really hard schedule but the fact is is if i have a schedule that people are saying is hard i'd rather have one that people say is hard at the end of the year because that's when injuries happen and the schedule doesn't look like what it looks like in june yep like

their easier games are at the front end of the season. Yep. And if they start the season five or two or something, and then some quarterbacks get hurt or some teams, you know, fall off, then all of a sudden that path means Zimmer only has been Zimmer's teams have finished strong in all but one season when he's finished strong in 2014, finished strong in 15, um, 16 was the, you know, the, if he, as long as he's away from the stuffed animals, he's probably fine. 17, 18, they finished better than they started. 19, they finished better than they started.

And 20, they obviously starting one in five and almost finishing 500. So I think that they're, again, I'm more negative on the team than most, but I do think that there's obviously a path. Well done, sir. And this was super fun to be able to get together in real life irl and now we have to leave to get to the links game um but uh there will be actually the next week after this sam ekstrom is going to take over for a couple of episodes and he's going to

handle next week because i'm going on a little vacation but uh i appreciate your time eric great to connect with you and um man we need to bring this back like lots of talk me into needs to be a thing that we talk me into is great yeah great so feel free to use it and uh thank you all as always for listening and we'll catch you next time on purple insider