Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - PFF's George Chahrouri imagines a Jim Harbaugh and Vikings marriage and what can the Vikings learn from the Rams

Episode Date: February 2, 2022

Matthew Coller and host of the PFF Forecast podcast George Chahrouri talk about Jim Harbaugh and whether it makes sense for him to become the next coach of the Vikings. George, a 49ers fan, likes the idea because of Harbaugh's competitiveness... but what would it mean to having to rebuild the roster and make a difficult decision on the quarterbak? Plus Cam DaSilva of RamsWire joins to talk about what went right for the Rams to reach the Super Bowl and what the Vikings can learn from them about going "all in" Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar here in Georgia, joining me on the show from my favorite podcast, one I listen to all the time when I'm running is George Shahuri from the PFF Forecast podcast, who has blown out his voice cheering for, was it cheering for the 49ers or was it cheering for your own bets? Oh man, I was in a brutal situation where, so I'm a 49ers fan, but the math, our models at PFF, everything I know about the game of football told me to also bet the 49ers. So I will say this, the bets that I made that were mathematically sound were winners, Niners plus three and a half full game, Niners plus three on the half. But that little bit of me that wanted James Garoppolo to win that game

encouraged me to bet a few things that would have won only if the Niners had won. So I was looking, I was looking really solid there for a while. I'll say this, the voice left. So I went, I live in Cincinnati. That's where PFF headquarters are. I just could not do it. It was like 10 degrees. I got to go watch this game somewhere worthwhile. Bunch of PFF guys were in Las Vegas for the Shrine Bowl. So I said, you know what? You got to make some plays sometimes. So in a span of five minutes, I bought a plane ticket, a hotel room, and reserved a cabana at Stadium Swim and flew out Sunday morning. And obviously the air is a little bit drier in Las Vegas.

But what I lost my voice doing was the excitement of the first probably, what, 70% of the game, which was a 10-point lead for the Niners. By the time they started to pee it down their leg matt the voice was already gone uh and so were their chances that's jimmy garoppolo going to super bowl and then the 49ers trading trey lance to the vikings so that was uh that was a thing that we ever so briefly thought but what if um isn't it isn't it, isn't it funny that, that how many fan bases go through the same thing? I was thinking about this this morning because I saw a tweet where someone said, you know, if Kirk cousins is the 49ers quarterback, they're in the super bowl. It was like, I'm not sure they're in the playoffs based on history, but, uh, the, the fan bases with

these types of quarterbacks, Derek Carr, Kirk Cousins, Jimmy Garoppolo, they all have to live in imagination land most of the time where it's imagine if he just had this or imagine if he could only do that. And then we would be like those other guys. And I guess Matthew Stafford is getting to live out of his imagination land where he lands in the perfect situation. His team has a receiver go down and they replace him with Odell Beckham of all people, but a pretty rare situation.

And I guess you've been living in this similar as I have for quite some time now with Jimmy Garoppolo, where it just seems like every single game is a full indictment on the quarterback that everybody's priors get confirmed with a win or a loss or a bad throw at the end or whatever else. And it's, I think it's a tricky and difficult existence for all of those fan bases. Yeah. And it's such a small sample size too. I mean, the Matt Stafford's played well this post-season, but the throw that was most on the money was to a 49ers player. And Jimmy should have thrown a pick to Ramsey shortly thereafter, although if they make the interception first,

who knows what the hell happens. But it's a really good point around the results and outcomes often color the way that you look back on the process. I'll say this, though. The what-if game, what if Kyle Shanahan went for a fourth and two? There's a lot of what-ifs around the offensive result, and they almost always point back to the quarterback and the coach. So I think those two things are kind of linked, and it's like what would Kirk Cousins look like on the Niners? I think their offense would be just as, if not

more explosive. Now, when you talk about getting into the playoffs and making it this far, there's levels of clutch play that you require. And look, I think both of us would probably say, Jimmy G might be an inferior quarterback overall, but if we needed someone in the huddle at the moment, you know, that we most needed them to come through, like I'm probably still taking Jimmy G as insane as that is. But it's a really good point. And, you know, if you think about the Vikings right now, they're in a position where I think there's a lot of hope around bringing that type of environment where you could see how far you could go. Because I think to your point, it's like

Kirk Cousins' performance and the way that he has graded from a PFF standpoint, his EPA per play, whatever metric you want to look at, there's no reason to believe that if you surround him, for example, with a Niners-like supporting cast, one of the best in the league, that you wouldn't be competing at least in the later rounds of playoffs. Except for how do you do that with one's cap hit? And also, I mean, the other thing too is that when you put it all under a microscope, you start to find things where you're like, and this happens for all of those types of quarterbacks. It's the reason to take a swing at a rookie quarterback, because if you land the right one, then you don't have to have this conversation, but it's how do you put all those things around it when you have

six or seven positions on defense to fix and two offensive line spots and still, you know, number one, two receiver that are set number three receiver that can play a little, but someone always gets hurt. And then every time someone gets hurt, Kirk Cousins can't play like he did before. We've seen this several times with Adam Thielen getting banged up, and he's just a different quarterback once that happens. Like, how do you hold all that together?

And I've always thought that the difference between Garoppolo and Cousins is that Garoppolo, though he screws it up sometimes will at least let it fly I mean at least he will let the ball go and with Cousins so often we saw he just gets sacked or just checked down or whatever and it's just like it's hard to get you there with this fundamental conservativeness to his play that was talked about for so long with Alex Smith yeah it's that's a really good point you know Eric my co-host on the that was talked about for so long with Alex Smith. Yeah, that's a really good point. You know, Eric, my co-host on The Forecast, has talked about this a lot where, like,

Jimmy G, in a sense, is a really well-programmed robot. You know, like, he's a sharp dude. He knows Kyle Shanahan's offense. Kyle tells him, throw it here. He throws it there. The problem is that when anything breaks down, and we saw this a bunch in this playoff run, actually, and the interception to Kittle in the Packers game,

I thought was the perfect example of this. He makes an incredible play not to get sacked, spins out of it. It's like, oh, I'm watching josh allen you know and then all of a sudden you realize i'm not watching josh allen because the throw josh allen would have made two seconds earlier without needing to do anything you know flick of the wrist and what about a touchdown um and you know that's the limiting factor in terms of your ability but what you can't what's really hard to change is like the internal will slash desire, right. To like make the throws when they're there. And, you know,

I would have been fascinated. This would be so cool to like try and at some point in our lives, Matt, we'll be able to do this where you go replay that game with a different quarterback in there, you know, in a way where like, it's like an accurate Madden, I guess, because that offensive line completely got demolished in the second half. And, you know, how would Kirk Cousins have handled that? It would have been really fascinating to see. And, you know, to your point, like those are the things that you need to go well, if you're going to have a quarterback that isn't a top five quarterback go far and even with a well-constructed roster which the Niners

have you can still fall prey to you know a bad game here an injury there I mean Trent Williams gave up five pressures like you know what are you going to do in that situation right and I think what uh it really shows is that no matter what you have as a quarterback or a scheme or anything else that and you guys have really studied this closely is pressure versus uh coverage and things like that but it feels like in in a single game if you've got the team with the best and most dominant offensive line that that's your one ticket to throwing off all of that and the bangles did a good job of this against Patrick Mahomes, creating pressure against him.

And we did see this with the Vikings in 2009 against San Francisco, where the Vikings had their best offense with Kirk Cousins. Kevin Stefanski calling the shots there. Everybody was healthy for that game, dig stealing. And San Francisco's defensive line just absolutely smashed Cousins. And that's kind of been the story of Kirk Cousins. And that's why I talk about like imagination land of, well, imagine if their line had played better and like, well,

going through the playoffs, your line's not going to play better because San Francisco had a monster line. And in two of the playoff games against great D lines, they got beat up. I mean, this is just the reality of the thing is that I'm not sure without a playmaking quarterback, unless you have the Dallas Cowboys offensive line from the early nineties, that that ever is a reality for going through the entire playoffs without having somebody beat up your offensive line in a single game. Yeah. You know, and the tough thing is that a lot of your offensive line is how can you adjust to the inevitable injuries that beset them. And, you know, I don't know if a healthy Trent Williams makes that game that much different.

But I'll tell you this, having the offensive player in the nfl at full strength as opposed to a high ankle sprain probably matters and at that point you know it comes down to how can you scheme around it and i think that's your point i mean you've seen tom brady scheme around poor offensive lines despite being a statue in the pocket um you know i'll be very interested i know this is not a like super bowl preview episode but one of the things i'm most fascinated about in the super bowl is i have yet to see zach taylor do anything from a scheme or play calling perspective that's been impressive and if there's ever a time to pull that out like this is it because the biggest mismatch this might be the biggest

mismatch matt that has existed in the playoffs thus far which is the interior of the bangles offensive line is a complete and utter sham and they are facing aaron donald the best interior alignment plus two edge rushers that are really good and it's like if your coach can install something on the fly that gets your quarterback out you know on the edge that creates quick passing opportunities and that's where coverage comes in right can you take advantage of certain players in certain positions that was the thing that the niners just did not do and that was really interesting because i think it points to something about Shanahan, which is when he's on, he's on.

You probably can't stop him, but what's his counter move when things aren't on? And that has happened, unfortunately, in the playoffs a few times. Maybe Zach Taylor is holding back the good plays, as Eric would say. Andy Reid didn't pull out the good plays in the playoffs a few times. Maybe Zach Taylor is holding back the good plays, as Eric would say. Andy Reid didn't pull out the good plays in the second half. Right.

Hey, you know what's funny? Do you ever think of this? And I'll get to the Harbaugh thing, because that's why I said, Harbaugh news, we've got to get George on. But isn't it funny how many times teams might have a ring if they just ran the ball? Like Kansas City, they're rushing three against Mahomes. They're dropping everybody back.

And Andy Reid is like, no, keep passing. Like sometimes you just have to run the ball. Kyle Shanahan up 28 to three. Just run the ball. Pete Carroll at the goal line. Just run the ball. Like it's amazing sometimes how these brilliant coaches will just mist forest through the trees when the other team is rushing three and dropping everybody else back and you're up by a bunch of points the same

with kicking the field goal at the end of the first half it's like look man i'm all for going for it but maybe just go up another score like this is good for you sometimes it just seems like there's there's that obvious thing that some of the great coaches miss yes and and no though so you know one of the interesting things about kansas city in that game in that second half especially you know like yeah can you run the ball yeah but but clyde's edward flair is not you know this isn't derrick henry over here right i mean that you know their their run game has kind of been whatever. I would have, to be honest with you, I would have been really interested to see what you could have done with more, you know, kind of quarterback designs. Patrick Mahomes had an average. This was crazy.

I looked this up last night. Patrick Mahomes did something in the second half that he's never done in his career. He held onto the ball for an average of four seconds before he threw or scrambled in the second half. His average depth of target was 3.9 yards down the football field. That's crazy. Like that's like Alex Smith type numbers in a bad game, except Alex Smith gets it out in like 1.7, you know? And so I really want to, you know, I go back to that and i go okay well that's on my homes and

read you have four seconds back there like you got to make some plays with those those players and you look at shanahan and you know the pete carroll one the decision not to run the ball there you shouldn't you shouldn't have run the ball against that defense you shouldn't have also called a play like that you know like we always remember the bad decisions that can be bad for myriad reasons. You know, one of the, so think about that, that third and short that the Niners had where they ended up running the ball with Hughes check. So they put that Williams in motion again. And that was the third time they put Williams in motion.

The first time against Green Bay, they actually ran the play to Trent's side and they picked it up. The next two plays, they tried to use that motion as a decoy to do something else. And I think that's it. It's not necessarily the choice of run pass. It's like, why are we trying to get so cute?

I get that you want to throw because the Patriots have five D linemen down there, but like maybe let's not run a play that like we've never run successfully before. You know, that's the thing, Matt, that I think especially in some of these situations, you know, maybe that was the case with the Niners and Jimmy G.

And you see this with a lot of quarterbacks that aren't great. It's like when you don't have a quarterback that can kind of come in and say, this is what we need to do. You kind of default to like trying to make up for that with, you know, getting a little too cute. Yeah. And Seattle throwing it to like a replacement level receiver with the Super

Bowl on the line to just like, Hey, what are you doing? Yeah. Right. You'd rather do a bad run play to Marshawn Lynch who might run over four people, then throw to a receiver who has hardly any catches in his career. So let's talk about Jim Harbaugh, though. I just just your thoughts. I mean, when you hear that Harbaugh may be returning to the NFL, as you mentioned, you have followed the San Francisco 49ers for a very long time. And there's already the debates raging amongst Vikings fans of, do you love it or do you

hate it? Are you scared of it or are you all in on it? So tell me where everybody should stand on Harbaugh. Well, you know, I would start with Quezzy and kind of think about where he comes from and, you know, the people that he's learned from. And I've been lucky enough, I've spent a bunch of time with Quezzy, whether it be at the Combine, he's come and visited PFF's offices before. And he's very thoughtful about, and a lot has been made of, okay, this is a guy that has an analytics background. He's worked on Wall Street. No one really knows what that means. And so they just assume that it's like numbers floating in people's brains um but i think that he's viewing this higher as a lot more than just what offensive system is coming in what defensive system is coming in but like who is this leader going to be and that is the X factor with the head coach that is different than it is with the coordinators. And if you look at this head coaching, I guess, class, if you will, I don't know that there's a lot of guys that you have a ton of faith in coming in and being that dude. And that's important because right now they have veteran players

on that team that are, you know, it's one thing to deal with, you know, kids, right? And like command authority. It's another thing to do that with established NFL veterans and still be able to then go and like get on the level of a rookie that's come into the league and help them figure it out. So from that standpoint, I do like it because you would bring someone in who you have worked with, you understand how they are going to manage the players, and that's a huge part of it. I think the question, Matt, would be, and I think this has got to be what Quezzy is trying to figure out and probably talk to Harbaugh a lot about, is what would your staff look like? And what does that mean for our offense and our defense as I'm building this team?

Because that's such a crucial component of it. And so I think if you can get those things figured out and you feel confident that the offense will be one that will bring new concepts in that will not be stuck in the kind of like Michigan offense stone ages, then I think you can feel pretty good about it. So it's a swing of the bat for sure. I mean, that that's maybe the best way to put it as like, it ain't a safe hire, right? But it is a hire where the upside is, is really high because I think you get someone that comes in and gets people in a place where they're excited. They know they're accountable. Um, and if you have the right then scheme around it, you can be really successful. And the downside is that you're playing with gasoline and a match. I mean, right. That's

the big thing. And then that's where, when I've brought up reasons for skepticism, of course, I know that people take that sometimes as you hate it. Don't you? Like I got some messages saying that like, well, not necessarily. I just think like you mentioned swinging the bat. I mean, it's a home run or it's a strikeout and the stadium burns to the ground. Right. Like those are, those are your two potential outcomes with Jim Harbaugh. Is it? So I don't know.

I don't know that the floor is that low. And, and I think the downside is that it's that it requires a lot of energy. Like Jim Harbaugh is going to come in and it's an empty, maybe this is the best way, it's an empty the tank. However long he's there, your tank is empty at the end, right? Like this dude is going to require you to expend all of your energy. And that is a good thing, but it's also one that makes it hard to coexist for long periods of time, especially when you don't have those moments of true great success, a Super Bowl win. You keep going, guys, is this worth it? Is this worth it? Is this worth it? And that intensity when you're at the NFL level, as you saw with San Francisco, has a lot of pros and ultimately can, you know, at the end,

leave you sitting there going, man, it's over. And I've got like no energy left. And so I think that, I think that's the, that's a little bit of the downside. i don't think it's quite the same um and maybe because he's been in college for a while it is closer to this but matt my take would be you know as opposed to bringing in a guy that's never coached at the nfl level an urban meyer for example that's where like the floor is you know everything's burned to the ground and like, this is a nightmare. And we're, you know, we're re-racking after a season or two. With Harbaugh, I believe that even though he spent time in college, he spent so much time in the pros, has seen how that has been successful, dealt with a couple of different quarterbacks, worked in, you know, the Niners are not the

easiest organization to work in, right? I mean mean they had some people there that were making some decisions to go okay really um that he would come in and understand enough about the nfl that rather quickly that would get in in shape and he'd be okay there yeah just uh to me it's if you're hiring harbaugh your organization is now his and he is the guy who's calling the shots and that's, that's how it is. And so if you're a daffodil Mensah, like, do you want that? Or do you want to sort of have someone that you can, you know, I guess, paddle the same boat together as opposed to, you know, Jim Harbaugh is the, he's conducting the speed boat and you're flying behind, right? Like that's kind of how it feels, to me which like it can

work because harbaugh has had a lot of success i just wonder if it matches up with where they stand as a franchise because you mentioned the franchise or the uh the veteran players and there's a good case for a lot of the veteran players to be like all right that's enough for you you know that sort of uh in a way reminded me of when the buffalo bills hired rex ryan like big flashy hire someone who had had success before fans get super excited, big personality. And he comes in,

he's like trying to win now go all in. And they kind of didn't have the horses. And then when McDermott came in, it was so much less hype. It was like, Oh, this defensive coordinator guy who knows he's talking about culture, who cares kind of thing.

But then they slow built, they moved on from some of their contracts. They drafted the quarterback. They spent the cap space around. It was more of a methodical approach that I would prefer, I think, from the let's bring Harbaugh in and try to win everything right now. So, I mean, you bring up two really good points. I'm going to ask you something here because I'm curious your thoughts on this. So that's where when you're making a hire, and I've been lucky enough to hire a bunch of people at PFF. And if you get really clear

on the expectations with the person, especially in those higher leverage roles, it's like, you're coming in, I'm expecting a lot of you, but let me really lay it out for you how we're going to work together and what I expect of you and what decisions you have autonomy to make. And this is my promise to you kind of deal. That's the conversation that Quezzy and Harbaugh have to have. Now, I think that I don't know this. I'm not in the room room but my understanding would be and what i know about quezi is and what i think we all know about harbaugh is like i i think that conversation is a pretty easy way it's one that they will have right you know i don't think they would be like okay we're gonna hire you and then you know two weeks and it's like so who has control over the

roster you know our wait we're rebuilding like what's going on but my question for you is this a lot of gms you get one shot in the league to be a gm and that's why those contracts are usually you know six years and you generally you know you might get only one coach but generally you get a little more you know leeway than that whereas coaches you know you cycle them in and out and they get a bunch of retread opportunities que Kwezi is a four-year deal. So how much incentive does he have to rebuild? Four years, I mean, you certainly need a little luck on your side if you're going to rebuild in four years, right? Well, maybe.

I mean, now the Vikings haven't tankeded so i don't want to compare them directly to cincinnati just because they're in the super bowl but i think there's a lot of teams who have drafted a quarterback even when their roster was decent how about philadelphia with carson wentz where they had sam bradford there were 500 team they draft um carson wentz and even though carson wentz is not a great quarterback they were able to stack up so much around him that even Nick Foles can do it at the end, but Carson Wentz gets them to home field advantage. And I think that's an, that's kind of an example that I would think of as like, it doesn't have to be an 18 year rebuild or something. It just has to be a more long-term type approach, really specifically starting with the quarterback. The thing I would say to you,

though, is that, you know, this from hiring hiring people and since i've only hired one guy i'm not talking about sam when i say this but when i'm saying this from previous experience of working at a lot of places sometimes you hire somebody and you think this guy's perfect he's just going to work out in so many ways he gave a great interview and everything else and then three weeks into them working there you go oh man this is not what it sounded like it was we really fucked this one up yeah yeah exactly that's what it is like i'm sure that that has happened to you where you go oh man i really that guy i thought had all the resume and all the right things to say in the interview and what is harbaugh going

to come in be like no actually there will be a power struggle in year two. Just letting you know, Kwesi, there's going to be a power struggle. Like that's not what anyone's ever going to say, right? Well, and you know, it's a good point. I think the most valuable thing with any interview process is actually talking to the people that have worked with those, those candidates. I, I do that with every big person I hire and I try to do it more and more as we go down the ladder. Cause that's happened absolutely where you hire someone and you know, most people are competent enough to make their way through a couple of interviews, right? Like if you can't make it through an interview and make yourself sound good and prepared for a job that we wanted to interview you for, like make may God have mercy on your soul, right? But

what is that person like when they're in the moment, when they're doing the work, when there is a challenge or a problem that needs to be solved? I always think that's the question that you ask. And so going and asking people that have worked with them, hey, when there was a challenge, when you guys had to solve a problem, how did it go? How did this person handle it? What did they do? And that should be where Quezzy has that actual personal experience and then can go talk to other people in the Niners organization or at Michigan and say, how has has how's this been so that he can kind of understand like you know what will this be like for me you know how will I how will I handle it I mean I think honestly the question that probably had to be that either the elephant in the room or like the first thing

they talked about was like okay what's our strategy at quarterback right I mean right like it you know because you talk about like all this different team building stuff and, and you know, like, okay, this year, like, who are we thinking, you know, to be rebuilt the defensive line, you know, how are we getting corners? Like we're doing the Cincinnati method, which by the way, worked out pretty decently for them. But it really comes down to the strategy of quarterback because if, you know, if John Harbaugh comes in and goes, you know, I love Kirk Cousins.

I don't know if I've ever told you this, but like Kirk Cousins, my guy, I just really want to, you know, have him as my quarterback. Then that's how you align on that strategy and that everything builds from there. And if Harbaugh is excited, and maybe he is because he's just coached in college, he's maybe really rejuvenated. Let's get a young guy in here. You know, let's do that. And I will say this, you know, just because harbaugh has been around for a while i younger

players he resonates look at social media like our social media team when harbaugh comes up like place lights up because the younger people really love and and just get his authenticity so it could work for a rebuild if that is where they align. Folks want to tell you about HelloFresh. With HelloFresh, you get farm fresh pre-portioned ingredients and seasonal recipes delivered right to your doorstep. You can skip the trips to the grocery store and count on HelloFresh to make home cooking easy, fun, and affordable. That's why it's America's number one meal kit. The new year is a great time to focus on what's important to you, whether it's

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you know, through their actions and not their words, we're trading cousins. We're getting a top, a high draft pick, whatever it is, first or second round pick. And I'm picking the next quarterback because I'm arrogant enough to think

that I know which guy it is in college football. I would be like, great. Like that. Okay. Then that's fine. Like Harbaugh is a quarterback guy. And he went with

kaepernick over smith and went to the super bowl like he knows these things but if he said i'm the genius who can get the most out of cousins there have been plenty of geniuses before who have not been able to solve this rubik's cube i mean gary kubiak sean mcveigh kevin stefanski these are not schlubbs these are These are top offensive minds. Plus you're paying him. See, that's the thing. It's like, if you're going to pay that much money, and Eric does a really good job of talking about this, but you need to get the value that picks up where those dollars can go to build the robustness of your roster. Right. And so like, I think it's a really interesting question. So you said, let's say if I had to bet, I would bet that they probably line around trading cousins. Let me just, I think that,

you know, my estimation, that's what I would do first off. And so like, I'm going to, you know, imbue that on them. So you're having that conversation. You go, okay, so we're going to, we're going to trade cousins. We're going to're gonna pick we're gonna look to pick a quarterback this year because i don't with this class like i don't think you're in a position where you're like shoot we have to and you might go okay let's let's maybe play it you know maybe we bring in a guy and you know maybe we lose a few games and you know we get a better draft pick the next year. Keep your options open there. But if Harbaugh comes in and says, I'm going to evaluate this player, that's how we're going to choose, I'd be really hesitant. That's not the right way to make decisions. I think Quezzy needs to have that final say,

but what he will do is he will weigh the evaluations. He's not going to make an evaluation and say, this is the evaluation. It's about listening to and being able to say, okay, I have a robust process for taking in the evaluations from people, for weighing them appropriately, and then making a decision that is ultimately the best for the organization. Because when an evaluator comes to you, they're always, you know, the lower you go on the totem pole, the smaller the person's perspective gets, right? And so when you're a decision maker at the top, that's why it's so hard. You have to take a much greater view into account when you make a decision. And that is always the challenge. So I would want Harbaugh to come in and say, look, I just spent a long time in college.

I learned a lot about how these players act. I think I'm ready to coach someone that's younger here in a way that doesn't tear them down and makes them successful. And I want to be a part of the evaluation process. And I want us to make sure that that room's open. Then I think you say, yeah, let's do it. But if it's like, hey, I know this is my guy, you know, it's like, okay, I just got here.

I just signed this contract. Right. I mean, it's like, okay, I just got here. I just signed this contract. Right. I mean, to me, that is the determining factor that you can convince me. If you say Harbaugh is going to pick his guy in the draft and those two are going to just climb the mountain together. Carson Strong and Jim Harbaugh, 2022, whatever. Right. I mean, if that's the way, if that's what he says, I, you know, I I've seen this quarterback play. He's my guy. I want that guy forever.

I'd be like, great. Cause that's what you're looking for. You're looking to have this quarterback coach relationship where they're all in on each other, not where they argue over vaccination status or whatever all season long, or couldn't even agree. Kirk and Zimmer couldn't even agree on how much tape they were watching together. It was ridiculous. So if you have that, then that's cool. Then that, I think, is cool and you've got a chance. But the whole I can fix them, I just, I'm not sure that that works very often. Yeah, I agree.

And that's always a challenge in the draft, too. You know, that's what i would be like if i were if i were the gm uh of the vikings i would evaluate how harbaugh evaluates quarterbacks right and i would i would study the way that he recruited at michigan and i'd look at his time in the nfl and it's okay like where does this guy think he can fix guys and where is it where? Where is he not? So that you, so that when he comes to you and says, okay, this is the guy you're able to say, okay, let's, where does he need to get better? And if he goes, okay, well, this is where he needs to get better. He's throw accurately. It's like, well, where has that worked before? Right. You know, that's kind of the conversation you have to have because it's really, you know, when people have done things a certain way and,

you know, I'm guilty of this all the time, right? If you've done something a certain way, it's really hard for you to go, I've done it this way, but it's wrong. Cause that's an indictment on your decision-making a lot of the time you've spent, but it's also asinine for you to think that you've perfected the way that you're doing things. Right. Right. But like those, those are very hard things to like, actually in the moment, also asinine for you to think that you've perfected the way that you're doing things. Right, right. But like those are very hard things to like actually in the moment, you know, face. And so I think the more as a GM that you can have conversations where you're asking questions that you've thought through that you know will lead to thoughtful conversation and assessment

of prior work, the better chance you have at like remedying those things. Cause that the, I can fix this dude. I can mold this clay baloney. It's so much, you know, it's not all baloney, but it's, we overestimate our abilities to do that is I think more prevalent in the draft than anywhere else. Yeah, no, that's right. That comes to the thing about anywhere else. Yeah, no, that's right.

That comes to the thing about if you reach on draft picks, you usually can have it blow up in your face. Whereas if somebody drops, you know, that might not be as crazy, but the whole, no, we evaluated this. We're better than the league at evaluating these things. Unlikely. I was going to bring up one more thing, and I know you're late for a meeting, but you have a good excuse. You're on iTunes top 25 football show, by the way,

just as of the other day. Which, by the way, does not surprise me at all. Appreciate that. In the slightest and probably should be higher. But yes, world renowned. Is world renowned. Yes, that's a good way to put it. But the last thing I was going to say is that one area that I would love about Jim Harbaugh is that Daryl Morey did this study about scouts and what they see. And most of the times they would overrate players who were like they were. But Jim Harbaugh, when he was a quarterback, super athletic and really gritty and competitive. And if you look for a better version of super athletic and really gritty and competitive, you give yourself a chance. At least there's that.

If he's looking for a reflection of Jim Harbaugh, you got a shot at a pretty good quarterback. Yeah, because it is a really good point. And I think the thing that you get with Harbaugh when he looks for that similar component is he will look for someone that is uber competitive you know because that like that's the thing that sticks you know i think all of harbaugh's sins if you will come from just the fact that he's such a competitive maniac and there are worse things to be than a competitive maniac in sports for sure and i think just generally in life, and I'm probably a little biased because you could call me a competitive maniac, but you know, and in all things in moderation, obviously,

but if you had that bend, you know, the things that you do need to improve, I think you can, you know, as much as, as much as possible. So yeah, I'm, I'm in agreement there. Now, if he finds a guy that only wears khaki pants, big problem then i think then i think maybe that's a bit more of a red flag but uh i'm i'm absolutely with you there maybe andrew luck will come back and then i am all in it's a all in for that because because you're supporting the competitive maniac doing the thing i was just talking about because i know that's you and also you only hire people with perfect beards. That's another thing. It's very true. So if you want a job at PFF, uh, the PFF forecast, I mean it, my favorite podcast. I listened to every episode at PFF underscore George. Um, and you guys work is excellent. I thank you for all the time and my apologies to

whatever you're late for. And, uh, we'll talk again soon, George, uh, looking forward to it, man. Absolutely. Matt. Anytime forward to it, man. Absolutely. Matt, anytime. Appreciate you, brother. Folks, we've got an even better offer to tell you about from soda stick.

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dot com and use the code purple insider for 15 off joining me on the show is cameron de silva the managing editor of ram's wire which is with usa today and uh cameron has been on the show is Cameron De Silva, the managing editor of Rams wire, which is with USA today. And, uh, Cameron has been on the show before. In fact, the last time that he was on the show, I was telling him why the Rams wouldn't make the super bowl. That was way back before the season. And I didn't know they were going to get Odell Beckham, but I'm still going to own this. And that's why you're coming back, Cameron. What have you been thinking throughout this season about the all-in nature of the Rams and all the pitfalls that they could have fallen into

and the traps that could have happened to them? And at several points, it seemed like that was going to happen, whether it was the end of the season, the game against Tampa Bay, 17 to seven in the fourth quarter, the way that they have had everything that we said could potentially go wrong, not go wrong, and here they are in the Super Bowl.

And I'll tell you, the beginning of the season, when they started, what was it, 3-0, they beat the Colts, they beat the Bears, they beat the Bucs. I mean, they were lighting it up. They were playing so well on offense. Matthew Stafford looked like the Colts. They beat the Bears. They beat the Bucs. I mean, they were lighting it up. They were playing so well on offense. Matthew Stafford looked like the real deal. I was like, man, these guys are going to make a deep, deep run into the playoffs, maybe even win the Super Bowl. Then they hit that three-game skid.

They lost to the 49ers, the Titans, and the Packers. And I kind of had some doubts about whether they could trust Matthew Stafford in big games and whether he'll step up in the playoffs, inexperienced guy in the postseason. So I had my questions there. The defense wasn't playing that well, kind of a weird scheme where they were using Jalen Ramsey in the slot. I mean, they still are, but not using him on the best wide receivers and that kind of bit them a little bit. And then they go on that run late in the season, have some doubts about their playoff hopes after they lost to the 49ers in that week 18 game, blew that lead. And then as kind of as the postseason has progressed, I've gained more and more confidence. Like against the Cardinals,

I was like, okay, this game could go either way. And then I saw them blow them out, saw the Bucs. I thought they might beat the Bucs. I thought they might beat the Bucs handily, which they really should have, if not for those four fumbles. And then I really had a good feeling about them beating the 49ers. And obviously it wasn't going their way to start. And they came back and really have shown a lot of resiliency and just overall talent that wins out in this league. I mean, obviously a lot of it is coaching too but when you have guys like Von Miller Aaron Donald Jalen Ramsey Matthew Stafford Cooper Cup I mean the list goes on that talent just wins out so here's the crazy thing about Matthew Stafford is that my assertion was that he wouldn't be different just because he's playing with Sean

McVay that he's probably going to be the same guy now by the numbers. That's actually right. Like by, uh, he threw picks and his pro football focus grades were pretty much the same as his good seasons in Detroit. Like this guy did not suddenly become a magical different quarterback. It just seemed that he was given the opportunity with the offense that was designed for him and the receivers, which again, talk about underestimating someone. I think I underestimated Cooper cup. I thought he was great. I didn't think he was Jerry rice. Okay. Like, I mean, I did not expect all of a sudden Cooper cup to become literally the best wide receiver in the entire NFL. So it's amazing that a lot of the same things that Stafford has always done still happen. PFF had him ranked as their ninth graded passer in the league.

Overall, he was their 11th best quarterback. Like those are the places where Matthew Stafford usually ends up standing. And in total interceptions, he was number one, tied with Trevor Lawrence and just ahead of Taylor Heineke. These are Stafford things. And in the Bucs game, the first drive, he throws an interception, is dropped. And then against San Francisco, he throws an interception, that's dropped. So luck has to exist for just about anyone. But I wonder what you think of the fact that he really was Detroit Matt Stafford, but this juggernaut stayed mostly healthy

and is coached by possibly the best offensive coach in the world. Yeah, he really was just Matthew Stafford. I mean, he didn't suddenly just take his game to another level. He put up similar numbers to what he's put up throughout his career, high interception numbers, high passing yardage numbers, a bunch of touchdown passes. I think he had like 41 this year. So he was the same player that he always was in Detroit. It's just that he was surrounded with

really good receivers. He had a great offensive line. His defense picked him up a lot when he would throw these interceptions deep in Rams territory. The defense had to come onto the field, step up and really pick them up and limit the damage. And they did that a lot. So when you combine a quarterback like that, who can operate McVay's offense and really take shots downfield, obviously when you throw the ball as deep as Stafford does on a regular basis, you're going to have turnovers. He's made some careless mistakes and obviously he wants those back. But I mean, he's just played really, really well. And outside of the turnovers, he's been accurate.

He's made good decisions with the football, looked good on play action, and grabbed hold of this offense completely. I'll give you another thing that I didn't really factor maybe enough, which is the Rams' offensive line. It's, I mean, there's no offensive line in the league that has depth, except for this one where you can have a backup tackle, have to fill in against Tampa Bay and play pretty well, where you have a guy who's 40 years old and literally has a gray beard

and Andrew Whitworth still playing phenomenally well. He had lots of time to throw against San Francisco. And I checked this, that he was one of the least pressured quarterbacks in the playoffs so far this year. I mean, that's remarkable that they were able to put him in this type of position because one of his issues throughout his career is that when he gets pressured, he either makes incredible throws or incredibly stupid throws. But if he's only pressured PFF listing it at 28% of the time, I mean, standing back there and throwing with the arm talent, he has the receivers that he has. I mean, that that's a major factor. I think that, you know, this isn't just,

oh, you've got one good receiver. You added another good receiver. It's having time to throw as well. And it's, it's almost sort of like counterbalance the fact that the Rams really don't have a running game to work with. Yeah. The offensive line was outstanding all season, really. I mean, they, they lost Whitworth for a game. Joe Noboom stepped in. He played really well. Brian Allen has been a revelation at center. He was a guy who started in 2019 and really struggled. And he's an undersized center. And he just looked overmatched for basically the entire season. He's been great this year. Austin Corbett, David Edwards, and Rob Havenstein. He had a couple of down years really in 2019. But he's been so good at right tackle. Honestly,

one of the most underrated players at that position in the league. And when you're giving Stafford that much time and teams really, they can't blitz him because he was so good against the blitz. It's relying on getting pressure on him with four rushers. And when you have that offensive line that's so solid up front,

it makes it so difficult to defend him. Yeah, the blitz thing is really remarkable too, because Tampa Bay decided that they were just going to blitz them all the time. And I don't really get it. And I think that Vikings fans are lucky. I'm going to ask you about the offensive and defensive coordinator, because that's of great interest to Vikings fans at the moment, if they don't end up with Jim Harbaugh, which they very well could. But you know, the, the,

the fact that he was so good against the Blitz and Todd Bowles sort of walked right into that was really surprising, I think. And I guess I wonder what you think of, like, just how the matchups have sort of played in their favor. You know, the Kyle Shanahan choking, as he usually does, and some key decisions and so forth, and San Francisco disappearing. I mean, I think it really speaks to when you go all in and when you make all these moves and trade away all these first round picks that it really has to work on so many levels. The guys that you trade the picks for have to succeed. Jalen Ramsey could have been Jamal Adams where they trade a bunch of picks

for this guy and then he means nothing to their defense. But instead, he's unbelievably good. And the same thing for Vaughn Miller, where you could have traded for Vaughn Miller, and then he's sort of washed and doesn't make a huge impact because he's just older. And instead, he's been such a huge part of this. And then even then, you're still down by 10 in the fourth quarter. I'm not trying to justify me giving you all these potential problems that could get in the way, but I can't help but think about if one of these things goes

wrong and the NFC has a stronger team, because let's be honest, I mean, there was no real juggernaut team in the NFC, then the Rams potentially could not be here. And they're talking about what an incredible failure it was and how they have no draft picks anymore. Yeah, really. The narrative shifts with them making the Super Bowl versus them coming up short. And it could have just been one fourth down conversion by the 49ers. They had fourth and two from about midfield. I think there was about 10 minutes left in the fourth quarter and they opted to punt. And they were up, I think, three at the time.

And after that, they never had a play that gained positive yardage. They went nine straight plays that either lost yardage or were incomplete or went for no gain. So the defense really stepped up, but it was a complete failure by the 49ers to put that game away. And it wasn't even necessarily the fact that Jimmy G threw an interception on the last play of the game. It was just he couldn't complete passes.ception on the last play of the game. It was just he couldn't

complete passes. He was under pressure late in the game. That's when the pass rush really stepped up for the Rams and took over. There were a lot of things that went wrong for the Rams in that first half. They missed a 54-yard field goal. They threw an interception in the end zone. Cooper Cupp dropped a touchdown pass or a pass over the middle that could have gone for a touchdown. Ben Skoranek dropped one in the end zone. So they made a lot of mistakes in that first half that really could have cost them. And then in second half, McVay burns all three of his timeouts with 10 minutes left in the game. They have no timeouts left. If the 49ers hold on to the lead and can just run the ball, I mean, they can put that game

away easily without giving the ball back to the Rams late. But I mean, it was a good performance by the defense. Stafford made the plays when he needed to, and it just, it all came together. The not going forward on fourth and two because they didn't have any timeouts is so wacky to me, because if you get a first down there even if you ran three times if you're san francisco and i think they were closing in on field goal range even if you run three times and kill the clock and you're up by 10 i mean you just have so much opportunity to put that game away even with the clock sometimes i swear the coaches forget there's a clock like in andy reed not not running with Kansas City in that game

against Cincinnati was just like dude there's a clock they're down by so much that even if you wear out three four minutes by running the ball in the third quarter like that's going to help you but it's remarkable sometimes how they just sort of lose sight of the obvious and fourth and two man it's 2022 you got to go for that I think that at this point, 90% of coaches in the league are going for that fourth down. That was entirely a coach getting scared. The offense looked a little, a little dodgy and he overthought it. And it's just, I mean, it's just remarkable what it takes to actually get there. I was going to ask you your opinion about team building and what you've seen with the Rams and what you think people should take away from

it and what they shouldn't. Because I tend to think that the answer is not necessarily just try to acquire all the stars you can with all your first round draft picks, because it's a really tight needle to thread and they just happen to do it. I do think though that the Rams I saw the other day had the sixth most homegrown players so that's really important drafting and developing in the past is what set them up to be here this is my take I know I asked you for yours but I'm giving you mine it's that you can strike when the iron is hot you probably get a year or two where it is if you don't have Aaron Rodgers or Patrick Mahomes so you probably do have to do that and hope that this happens would be my thought. And the other thing is defensive line in the playoffs is just, it's

the thing, uh, Jimmy Garoppolo under pressure, two completions out of 11 dropbacks. Yep. I mean, that's, that's what'll do it. But what's your, what's your thought on like what other teams should copy and what they shouldn't from the Los Angeles Rams of 2021. Yeah. So like you said, it is, it is a thin needle to thread in the ramps have done it. Well, what it comes down to is really nailing the players that you're trading for, which they did with Matthew Stafford, because he's been what they expected him to be. They did with Jalen Ramsey. They did with Von Miller. Obviously they didn't trade a pick for, for Odell Beckham, but he's been what they expected when they signed him after he was released from the Browns and really probably even better

than they expected. So you have to really get the most out of the players that you're trading for. And you could argue that maybe they didn't get the most out of Aqib Talib. Brandon Cooks, they paid him when they traded for him and that didn't really work out. That contract backfired. Marcus Peters was good when he was there, but he was also not Jalen Ramsey. So you do have to hit on those players that you're trading for. But really, it comes down to a lot of hitting on the picks that you do have. So the Rams, I don't think, have a pick until the third round, which is a compensatory pick for losing Brad Holmes. Their next one is like in the fifth round, they have to hit on those picks. You have to find players who aren't necessarily going to contribute right away,

but you have to find guys who can develop into starters down the road, which they did with Tyler Higbee, Sebastian Joseph Day, Greg Gaines. I mean, I'm trying to, David Edwards was another pick. Joe Noteboom is probably going to be their starting left tackle next year and for the future if they re-sign him. So there's a lot of guys that they've drafted in kind of the second, third, fourth, fifth round. Jordan Fuller, another one in the sixth round, their starting safety. You have to get the most out of those players that you're going to draft. you if you whiff on those players you're not going to have the depth and you're not going to have the the overall talent to round out the roster around guys like Jalen Ramsey Cooper Cup Cooper Cup I didn't even mention Cooper Cup about a guy who um you're not going to have

the players to build around those guys to to kind of complement them and that's that was a concern earlier in the season that I had because they were struggling in the secondary a little bit. David Long wasn't playing well as their nickel corner. Taylor Rapp was struggling a little bit. So it's a matter of really just continuing to cycle young player, young player, because you're not going to have much money to extend them. So you have to get the most out of them when you do draft them.

And this is the thing that when we were comparing the 2018 Vikings that went all in with Kirk Cousins to this year's Rams, this is a major difference that some of the young players that the Vikings asked to step up. I mean, that year in 2018, Laquan Treadwell is their number three wide receiver. And you're also asking, you know, a backup offensive lineman, although he started this year again, Tom Compton, but at the time of backup offensive lineman to step in and, you know, there just weren't those, those guys who rounded out the depth that you drafted and were sort of on the way to a development path. And that really got them over those couple of win now years in 2018 and 19 that didn't get the Rams that those players ended up working out.

I also think too, that, um, I, even though they were able to reach the super bowl with Jared Goff, that the, the difference between having a limited good quarterback, which I would argue all day that Jared Goff is good at football. He's a good quarterback for executing your offense. Uh, and he was playing for the worst team in detroit but even then like they had their moments where their offense was not that horrendous even though they had almost no talent but having the dude with the arm who could just heave it a million miles down the field it's sometimes funny how simple football can be cam i mean it's just like

i remember uh old terry bradshaw just hunk it down the field man mean, that to me is the difference, even though you could put those two quarterbacks on paper and say, hey, look at their box score stats. And yes, folks, this is a Kirk Cousins point. Look at their box score stats. But if you don't consider their limitations and upside, you're sort of missing something important there. Yeah, honestly, one of the biggest difference between Jared Goff and Matthew Stafford is the confidence that the Rams had and Sean McVay specifically on third and long. The Rams were one of the best teams in the league on third and long with Matthew Stafford this year.

When they had Jared Goff, they had no confidence at all that they were going to pick up the necessary yardage. They would run screens and run the ball and really do things to just not screw up. And now with Matthew Stafford, he he's a guy who knows when to take the shot downfield. He can, I mean, he has a cannon of an arm. So if you're running a dig route over the middle, he's going to get it to the guy on time and usually pretty accurately. That's not something that Jared Goff necessarily had. It kind of limited him.

And another big difference that you don't necessarily see on the box score is under pressure. Matthew Stafford was really good under pressure. Jared Goff was really not in the last couple of years. So just those little nuances and little parts of the game that don't necessarily show up with the stats, they make a huge difference in wins and losses. Yeah, I remember looking up the third and long stats and Matthew Stafford, number one in the NFL, I think even since 2018 was what I was looking for.

Not surprisingly. So let me ask you about these assistant coaches because the Vikings flew out the old private jet to Los Angeles and dropped on in to talk with Raheem Morris and Kevin O'Connell. Now, as we speak right now, if I were a gambling man, I would say Jim Harbaugh is going to be the coach of the Vikings because, I mean, you only bring in Jim

Harbaugh to actually hire him. But I have thought throughout this process that O'Connell and Raheem Morris were both very, very good candidates for this job. But I also don't know a lot about Kevin O'Connell. And I think that people have trepidation sometimes over not calling the plays, having it be McVay's offense. What do we know about Kevin O'Connell? Honestly, he's not a very like public coach as far as the Rams go. He's not, he's not the play caller. He's not technically the quarterback's coach. He does a little bit of both. He works closely with McVay and Matthew Stafford. You'll see him on the sidelines after plays, talking to Stafford, talking to McVay. McVay is involved in the defense. He works closely with

Raheem Morris. He's not just an offensive tunnel vision coach. But you can see after an offensive series, it's Kevin O'Connell, Matthew Stafford and Sean Clay talking often. So he does help with the game planning. He helps with, with, with getting Stafford ready and situationally those parts of the game. But I mean, he's, he's, he doesn't call plays. He did in the preseason. He has experienced calling plays. I think he did that with Washington when he was their offensive coordinator. He's a former quarterback, obviously knows the game well, was a former quarterbacks coach with Washington. So he's a intelligent guy who knows what he's talking about. So obviously a lot of teams are interested in him.

I think the Jaguars want to interview him. They just haven't been able to because they didn't put in the request early enough. The Broncos, he was apparently a finalist for them. So he's a hot candidate, a young guy. And I mean, everything you pick from with Sean McVay's tree, it really turns to gold. You see Brandon Staley, the success he had this season. Zach Taylor is coaching in the Super Bowl against the Rams. And then Matt LaFleur, too. So that coaching tree is growing pretty quickly.

You know, one thing that you would like about somebody that came from working with McVay is just an adaptiveness. I think that on paper, there are differences between how they've run the offense with Stafford and how they run it with golf. And even at times where Stafford was getting a little wild, it seemed like they started to draw back a little bit and say, all right, you know what?

Maybe we do have to give this guy some boots, give us a, give us a little rollouts and easy throws, get them on track and that kind of thing. And the major part for me is whether it's Harbaugh or Morris or O'Connell is if you can be on the same page with your quarterback and have total buy-in from both sides and trust from both sides, that is the commonality through all this, even whether it's Garoppolo and Kyle Shanahan, where they're very much on the same page, Josh Allen and Brian Dable

and Sean McDermott, like they seem very much interlocked with each other. That to me is the major key. And it seems like the Rams this year, that's a, that's another reason they've been able to take, you know, sort of the next step with Stafford. Yeah, for sure. And then they adapted the offense going from golf to McVay. Like you said, there were a very much play action, jet motion, all this kind of disguising stuff with golf to kind of protect him. Whereas with Stafford, they're a drop back offense. They just let him sling it. They do run some bootlegs and play action and stuff,

but not nearly as much as they did with golf. So they've adapted in that way. And I think that's a credit to Sean McVay and his coaching staff for the ability to kind of self- self scout and see what works and see what doesn't. And, and, and O'Connell is part of that too.

All right. Raheem Morris. The last thing I want to ask you about is he has such a unique background. I mean, the guy who was the passing game coordinator for Kyle Shanahan. And I think there are a lot of Vikings fans who would really appreciate somebody who has so much experience on both sides of the ball.

I also look back at his time when he was the coach of the Bucs and it's like a 10 win season with Josh Freeman and then lots of disaster. But it's also Josh Freeman and nobody knows better than Vikings fans for the one game he played as a Viking. Josh Freeman is bad. And so, you know, I don't know. Like when you're judging someone to be a candidate, I have to throw up my arms sometimes. It's like, I really don't know. I mean, his background makes a lot of sense. And the Rams defense has stayed on track after losing Brandon Staley. That's, that's the best I got. Can you tell me more? It was funny. I was joking with someone a couple of weeks ago. I asked him if Raheem Morris,

he mentioned how he won 10 games with Josh Freeman. I said that should be the top line on his resume when he's applying to jobs. I won 10 games with Josh Freeman. And Morris was a young coach back then. That was, what, 10 years ago, 10, 12 years ago that he was last head coaching. So it was a long time ago. He doesn't get enough credit for the job that he did this season with the Rams. There was a lot of people who were really frustrated with the job he did

with Jalen Ramsey and just soft coverages and not necessarily using his players to their best qualities and getting the most out of them. But they turned things around mid-season, kind of changed things up a little bit, used Jalen Ramsey to shadow receivers a little bit more, and it's worked really, really well. I mean, you'll look at their numbers, and I think they were like 17th in points allowed, which is nothing to write home about. It's not anything impressive, but the advanced analytics would show

that they were a really good defense. They were top 10 in DVOA defensively. So it was a good performance from a defense that obviously has a lot of talent. But you got to give them credit for getting the most out of players like Greg Gaines, Sebastian Joseph Day, A'shaun Robinson. David Long has come along a little bit at cornerback. So it was a star-studded defense in the fact that they had Von Miller at midseason, Donald, and Ramsey. But there were a lot of younger, inexperienced players that they had to use to build around those stars, too.

And I think Morris did a good job of putting them in good spots. Obviously, some things can improve. And Troy Reeder at linebacker I don't think is an experiment that has worked very well. And I think a lot of Rams fans will tell you that too but Morris has done a good job inheriting a defense that lost some talent and uh and needed some younger and experienced players to step up so what do you think are they winning I think they're gonna win I mean I think that defensive line is just way too much for Cincinnati's offensive line yeah I mean really the playoffs a lot of it comes down to playing in the trenches whether you can protect your quarterback and whether you can get after the other team's quarterback.

And the Rams are just significantly better at both right now than the Bengals are. And if they can get any amount of pressure on Joe Burrow and throw things off, I think the Bengals are going to have a tough time moving the ball consistently. I mean, we saw them win with Joe Burrow taking nine sacks against the Titans, but against this Rams front, it's going to be really tough. I never doubt the magic of Burrow right now because he's playing so well, but this looks like a mismatch on paper. And never doubt the craziness of Matt Stafford, who may at any time get swung around in a circle

and throw it to the other team for a pick six. You just never know. I think for that reason, I think it will be an entertaining game, but I tend to lean toward the Los Angeles Rams. You can follow him on Twitter at Cam DeSilva, which is D-A-S-I-L-V-A. And so you can take my apologies for my skepticism. It did not turn out, but it'll be an you know, an interesting Superbowl to watch. And it's been fun to kind of follow this take that, you know, early on,

I'm like, I'm an idiot. And then I'm a genius. And then I'm an idiot again. So you never know. You weren't alone in that take either. Right, right, right. Deservingly so, but they made it and they have to apologize to absolutely nobody. So Cam, great stuff. And I'm sure we'll catch up again at some point in the off season to kick things around and i don't know what the schedule is next year but it

seems like the vikings and rams or who some la team play almost every year so we'll see if that happens again yeah absolutely great to have you man thanks for having me dude