Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - PFF's Seth Galina talks about what big offseason moves will work and whether the Vikings can scheme more for Kirk Cousins

Episode Date: March 24, 2022

Matthew Coller and Seth Galina get together to talk about some of the NFL's biggest recent moves including Tyreek Hill getting traded to the Dolphins and Matt Ryan landing in Indy. Should the Colts have traded for Kirk Cousins instead? How will the NFC West shake out? Are any of the teams that are rebuilding doing the right thing? Seth reacts to a quote from Vikings GM Kwesi Adofo-Mensah about scheming more for Kirk Cousins. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here, along with Seth Galina from Pro Football Focus. And I was just saying to you, Seth, before we started, that I invite you on the show. I don't even tell you what we're going to talk about. I just assume you'll be ready to go. So I've got a game for you to play. You ready? Oh, God.

Okay, let's go. All right. You have to compare 90s hockey players from the Montreal Canadiens to Minnesota Vikings. No, that's a joke. But maybe you could. I was ready for that. Okay, here's the actual game. I want to go through some of the biggest things that have happened and just ask you if it's going to work.

Because one of my favorite parts of the year is when everybody freaks out about all these moves that are happening. And then we're in week six going, Oh, that didn't work like this. That wasn't a good idea at all. So why don't we start out with what just happened? And of course we'll get to the Minnesota Vikings and the things that have and have not happened with the Vikings so far, but the Tyreek Hill trade to Miami, Miami also getting Tron Armstead and loading up. And we're going to go through AFC, NFC teams that are a little more relevant to the Vikings as well.

But is it going to work to add people around Tua? Or are we going to see Teddy Bridgewater starting by week eight? I still hold out some hope for Tua. And I think it's one of those things where he didn't come in with like an elite trait. I think his elite trait was supposed to be processing, which I think we can't really use in terms of like college to pro projections. We can't really just be like, oh, he's a great processor because that is the thing we clearly have no clue about. So it's like if you're not – and, you know, what it seems like is happening in today's NFL is that you've got to come in with some sort of elite trait to give you some buoyancy in your early years.

So, you know, I mean, Herbert, the arm, Burrow, the accuracy, you know, et cetera, et cetera. So, you know, mobility with, like, Lamar Jackson, stuff like that. So with Tua, I don't know if he's like, I'm not saying he's inaccurate. I'm not saying he doesn't have, he has like a weak arm, but it's like, they're not, you know, it's like B, B plus in some areas and all that stuff. There's no A or even an A minus grade in any of his traits. So you're like, okay, well, then you better figure something out eventually in terms of processing. So it was going to take time.

Now he's going into his third year. So you have hope that he'll figure it out. The problem is if he never figures it out, again, there's nothing there to give yourself a higher floor. And so if the floor does fall out, then obviously there's a reason why they signed Teddy Bridgewater who at least does give you that higher floor now does he they both don't give you very high ceilings probably but at least there's there's a little bit of a floor there and

obviously the surrounding talent and you know a, a new coach, new system, hopefully that gives you a higher floor as well. Obviously, if Teron Armstead stays healthy, he's one of the top tackles. Tyreek Hill, I mean, very clearly one of the top receivers in the league. So they've made some – actually, I really like Cedric Wilson, the guy that they got from Dallas. So, like, they've made some smart plays there. We'll see about Mike McDaniel and what he's going to do on offense. I actually think the offense they ran last year with him,

with Tua, suited what Tua can do, can and cannot do. So I'm very curious to see them change it up. And I know, obviously, that style of offense that he's going to bring from Shanahan has lifted mediocre quarterbacks, so maybe he does it again. But I actually like what they did last year. So I think they can incorporate both sides of it. Are you doing construction outside of your house?

It's very possible. There was a guy in a hard hat outside the window. Okay. We did have one time on the show, a chirping fire alarm, you know, and so it was like in the back chirp, chirp, chirp through the whole episode that does happen. But so, you know what this sounds like? It sounds Jared Goffian, like, like what the Los Angeles Rams had to do around Jared Goff to build a really

good team there, except for, I'm not sure Miami's defense has Aaron Donald or if they could be as dominant as the Rams were. But this is the model, right? Like as Vikings fans are frustrated that they didn't really pick a direction. This was the direction that even if you have Tua, who I don't think any of us believe in as an elite quarterback at any point, you can at least give it your best shot by giving him everything you could possibly get. I agree with you that Cedric Wilson, he's a good player and that's going to be your number three wide receiver now. And then the other two are just give them the ball and they can do anything they want. And so I feel like it is going to work to at least get

Miami to somewhat compete with Buffalo. Like we think that Buffalo is on just this other universe. They won two more games than Miami last year. Like, I don't know that they were like in a completely different stratosphere and now their team might be a little bit stronger. Yeah. I'm not quite ready to say that they're there in Buffalo tier yet, I would say,

but they're definitely stronger. They're a hundred percent stronger. It just,. But they're definitely stronger. They're 100% stronger. It really is going to live on now. Okay, can the quarterback be that force multiplier and take them to another level? Is the defense going to be, to a certain degree, we had a very specific defense under Brian Flores. Are they going to be as good as they were last year?

Was their defense due more to maybe the quarterbacks that they played last year? We saw them go through that big winning streak where the offense was just okay and the defense was lights out. But besides Lamar Jackson, played a lot of backups, played a lot of lower-tier quarterbacks. So I do wonder if that is sustainable going into another year. Again, new system system maybe playing a tougher tougher slate of quarterbacks and who knows what will happen but so not quite there yet

I think they're up against the Patriots now because I don't know where the I really don't know where the Patriots are at all right now so I think they're probably closer to maybe being better than the Patriots than I think they're probably closer to maybe being better than the Patriots than I think they are closer to Buffalo. Okay, that's fair enough. I don't want to say that they're going to win the division because Buffalo has the God quarterback, and they've done a great job building that team,

so they've still got everything around Josh Allen. Just that this is how you do it, though. This is how you close that gap when your quarterback isn't as good. Is it going to work anything that the afc west has done like how which is going to work is more of the question than is it going to work is it going to work that denver traded everything for russell wilson or that vegas is getting davante adams for their franchise sent back to uh green bay or kansas city resetting their salary cap by moving Tyreek Hill and then trying

to fill it in with whomst ever. And then the Chargers, the Chargers before free agency were my Super Bowl pick for next year. And I feel like everything that they've done just screams it's going to work. But also they're the Los Angeles Chargers and their history is not working. So like, who's it going to work for in the AFC West is really the question like the Chargers are going to win the Super Bowl so that's really what it comes down to I think that you know the the way AFC West just going back to the whole quarterback situation the AFC and I'm not saying anything that anyone hasn't said before, but it is crazy when you look at where the quarterbacks are. You have to go through.

Like, there is a chance you will have to play, like, Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert. Mahomes, Allen, Herbert. Burrow, Allen, you know, Herbert. Like, those three, combination of those three in the playoffs, and maybe Carr with that receiving core, you know, that's obviously really good. And Wilson, you know, Herbert. Like those three, combination of those three in the playoffs, and maybe Carr with that receiving core, you know, that's obviously really good. And Wilson, you know what I mean? Like you're going to have to go through this gauntlet, and it's like, man.

So it's almost like going back to the Tua thing. It's like can you – do you have a guy who can win, who can put the team on his back? And, like, you know, you look at the team on his back. You look at the 49ers last year getting all the way to the NFC Championship game and them beating the Packers in Lambeau.

The offense didn't do anything that game. Did the offense do that much in the Cowboys game before that when they won? Not that much. Eventually, you're going to need your quarterback to have a game. And Jimmy G never did that. And they end up losing. Eventually

their clock is going to run out. So it's like with the Dolphins, it's like eventually whoever ends up playing quarterback is going to have to have a game. Whereas like we know that the guys that I just mentioned all have the ability not to have one game when they put the entire team on their back, the entire franchise on their back,

but multiple games like that. So it's tough. And obviously the guy in Cleveland now, that's a whole other up-see-any, even more. So, like, it's tough. You know, I go back to the AFC West. Obviously the Broncos needed to eventually make a quarterback change. I feel bad for the guys, you know, Vic Fangio and whatever, whoever,

all those coaches before him, you know, in the post-Payton Manning era where it was like, well, if you never give these guys quarterbacks, you're not going to be able to see if they can coach or not. And Vic Fangio is very clearly a good coach who they never gave a quarterback to and now and now he doesn't have a job and now they go get a quarterback right and you know one of those are probably two of those teams in the west are not going to make the playoffs and the thing is they might not even be bad teams but they're just they're just not enough wins to go around right when you have to play in a division all the time. And the Chargers got better.

The Raiders got better. I think the Broncos got better. Seems like at best the Chiefs stayed the same. So where are we? I don't know. I don't want to say what clearly it sounds like I'm going to say, but I think that i'd be a little nervous right now if i'm kansas city no i'm not saying like you you you you know paying tyreek

hill 30 million dollars a year was the right move or and trading him was the bad move i think there's a lot of factors involved i think it's a kind of a win-win lose-lose for like both teams in a sense if that makes sense um but but going into next year you know they're not as good now they hit on a receiver they hit on a quarterback in the draft different story but we won't know that until you know until September are you a believer in the idea that there are so many great wide receivers who are coming out in the draft that teams should rethink how much they pay them because I'm kind of buying into that philosophy. I mean, with the recent drafts, but also just how much the prices continue to go up.

And so when we're talking about quarterbacks taking up whatever percentage of your salary cap, if wide receivers and pass rushers, for example, are doing the same thing and every year seems to be another good draft for them. It's, I think that the Packers and Kansas City both made the right move by just saying, you know what, there's probably another one of these guys out there and we're going to roll those dice because they just seem to be everywhere. Yeah, I think with both those, with Tyreek Hill and Devonta Ames, I think you have to rethink what you want to do offensively, i do think especially actually with both them really you a lot of that whole that offense ran through them green bay for sure um you know lining lining adams up and all the different spots running all these different routes with him

you know being the rpo guy and the bubbles and stuff and obviously tyra kill kind of shared with kelsey you know to make that two-headed attack but a a lot of the, you know, the offense ran through him. So you have to find a way. You can't just like, okay, well, he's going to run it back. And then there's going to maybe have to be some structural changes. Now, obviously, you have two great quarterbacks who can make it work. To answer your actual question, I am very much in agreement on that. There's just a lot of receivers, a lot of kids playing receiver

who are getting a lot better coaching than we've ever had at that position where, you know, you're seeing the ball being thrown more at the lower levels. In high school football, you're seeing the ball being thrown more. They're getting all these reps. They're going to these seven-on-seven camps in the offseason. They're getting all these reps they're going to these seven on seven camps in the off season they're getting reps they're going to work with um receiver you know individual receiver coaches they're getting reps they're going to work with they're going to go hang out with their quarterback who's working with a quarterback coach they're getting reps you know

is that you know all that stuff and we're seeing it constantly with this glut of receivers that gets taken between like i don't know 20 and 40 in the draft I picked between picks 20 and 40 of the chat that you're gonna find really good receivers there and so yeah like paying 30 mil for Tyree kills and and Devontae's a lot of money they're great players they're great great players would you rather play them 30 mil at like age 26 probably you know i i don't know what davante is 29 i know um tarry hill just turned 28 that that gets a little into you're a little nervous about that stuff and then of course with receiver play you know so much is dependent on what the quarterback can do patrick holomes, now, I think Tyree Kill by himself

is a great deep receiver. Being able to super underrated route runner and super underrated at his ability to track balls in the air. But Patrick Mahomes is that kind of quarterback. Tua's not. So, like, that's where all this stuff is telling me to wrap my head around. Now, the one thing is, you know, linking this back to the Vikings, it's like, okay, you trade Stephon Diggs and you don't pay him. Simply go and draft Justin Jefferson.

Like, you know what I mean like yeah great one team did it and it was great for them but um the eagles drafted jaylen rake right like so like you got you got to obviously you know you know the draft is a craft shoot but like it helps when you when you accidentally hit on a player rather than you hit on a bust. Well, that's exactly it is that it's easier said than done to the, we could just replace that guy because there are a lot of positions that we talk about as being replaceable until you actually try to do it. And the Vikings are in this spot with Anthony Barr, where he's been there for so long. And I think when he's leaving, a lot of people are like, well, you know, it's okay. You just get another one. Trey Waynes was like this, like, this is not an unbelievable player. You just draft another corner and then you draft Jeff Gladney and then he gets indicted on domestic

violence and then you don't have a player anymore. It's just like those proven guys who are even just good, uh, especially the ones that are great are not easily replaced even if we kind of think that the position is trending that way but you have to land that guy um but the other part of it is that we do see receivers develop too from the second and the third round that maybe we don't expect terry mclaurin is great devo samuel is great so you should kind of just keep taking shots at those guys and you know kind of see what comes out now I won't ask you about the Cleveland thing because it's just a miserable conversation. So let's just move on from that. But I want to ask you about something completely different.

Pittsburgh, is it going to work with Trubisky? And I don't mean that he's getting better. Don't shake your head at me. I don't mean he's getting better. I don't mean that. I saw him play way too many times to ever think that this person could be good at football. However, if they draft a quarterback, have that person sit behind Mitch Trubisky and develop for a year, turn it over to him. Is that going to work for them as a model to get back into contention with now a Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Baltimore team that are expected to be really good,

like taking a step back from where they are and revamping this thing while Mitch Trubisky keeps them sort of like mildly competitive? I mean, like it's always this weird thing where when we look at it from the outside in, not having any skin in the game in Pittsburgh, it's like, well, just play the bad quarterback because you're not you're not winning the division division is too good right now um you're you're probably going to make the playoffs so like to play the back quarterback win two games and then and then you know have all those draft capital for next year obviously that just doesn't happen inside the buildings i mean you know that as well it's like it just doesn't happen inside buildings. I mean, you know that as well as I do. It just doesn't happen inside buildings.

Man, I'm curious to see what Matt Canada, his office coordinator at Pittsburgh, his offense looks like. His very unique offense when he was in college. Had to kind of scale it back to a certain degree because he played with basically the worst quarterback in the league for two years um so or i guess the last year was his first year as a as a coordinator but like so i'm curious i think they do a lot to help i think he can do a lot to help the quarterback it's just like the best you're getting is his is his, his kind of like full pro bowl year. Like what was it? 2018, 2017.

Yeah. Yeah. So I like that. Full pro bowl should be on his pro football reference page. It's like next to the, next to the Nickelodeon most valuable. Yeah. I noticed that. So, yeah, it's like, Oh man, unless they're like, they're like sitting there and they're like, yeah, it's like, oh, man. Unless they're, like, sitting there and they're, like, they've taken Chbisky and knowing that he's not good and they're just, like, trying to get people kind of half excited that we have a quarterback.

Then, obviously, we'll see what they do in the draft. If they go and take a quarterback. Now, I mean, I'm not a huge fan of any of these quarterbacks, but, like, you know, maybe they take a quarterback and then, like you said, let him sit there for a year, still lose games, you know, and then you still have that draft capital. I just think China, again, from the outside looking in,

I would say do not try to win now, you know, create cap space, you know, Get draft space. Blah, blah, blah. I think on the inside, I think Tomlin's been there such a long time. It's tough for a guy who's been there to say, yeah, we're truly rebuilding. We're stripping this down. I think that's tough. I don't even think they have a GM yet. But whoever they end up hiring as a GM is going to have to have this conversation.

If it's a younger guy, he's going to have to have this conversation with Tom and say, hey, no, I think this roster is not great in a lot of areas, so we're going to have to figure out how to do it in a way where we might have to tear this whole thing down. So I'm very curious about them, how they move this thing going forward. Trubisky is certainly not the answer. And honestly, it's like the point of, he's not even good enough like a Teddy

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And that's why I like it so much. I mean, I just think that you've done – no, I think you've done something perfect because he comes from being Buffalo's backup and you're like, oh, no, he developed in Buffalo. Trust us. You know, whatever. No, no, no. Of course not. I mean, you can't go –

If Mitch Trubisky had to play in the same system that josh allen was playing it would it would be he would it would be bad it would have been it would have been so bad to watch him have to play actual snaps from buffalo last year right but it is remarkable how somebody can sort of uh revamp their image just by being josh allen's backup with that organization or whatever but where I think it's perfect is if you take Matt Corral or something and then you win five to six games you're not going to look like the worst and most incompetent team in the league with Mitch Trubisky he's played NFL quarterback before it's not like playing a rookie like Zach Wilson last year where you can't

even evaluate players on your team because the guy is so bad. And that's always the fear. And then if your Matt Corral comes in and destroys Mitch Trubisky in camp, then you play him. It's sort of like the opportunity that Denver foregoed last year by not picking Justin Fields. It was like you had that chance to have him compete with Teddy Bridgewater, play if he was ready, not play if he wasn't, win seven games, and then turn the keys over to the guy. And instead, now they end up with Russell Wilson, so congratulations, but Russell Wilson's very expensive and he's older and it's not the same as having the guy in the rookie contract. So I feel like Pittsburgh is kind of doing this right. And yes, I am projecting on this from what i think the vikings maybe should have done

now how about in terms of going through these will it work because we just don't spend a lot of times on these afc things but i love talking about what's been going on matt ryan in indianapolis um first of all this reminds me it's such a throwback jeff george played for the vikings warren moon randall cunningham it's like the indianapolis colts have become that team where if you're totally washed as a former great starting quarterback come on over philip rivers matt ryan let's go uh so i love it from that perspective that people who have matt ryan indianapolis jerseys are going to be like remember that though um but i'm going to tell you the truth.

I just, I don't see it, man. I don't know. I think that there's a lot of people who are kind of holding on to what they want Matt Ryan to be still. I'm not sure that I see it being different. I think, well, my first question to you, so this is what I was going to ask. And I think I know the answer now is like matt ryan versus philip rivers when they got him two years ago you would take philip rivers yeah yep okay i agree i'm not sure i don't have an answer really uh i actually want to side with matt ryan and i do think it and i do think i might be playing into exactly what you're saying, which is like, we were like, Hey, you know, it still hasn't been that long since 2016, you know,

like, and the team has not been good around him. Offensive line has not been good. Receiving core obviously has had good times. This past year was not, but you know, obviously having Julio there for most of his career. And then Calvin Ridley for some of that was good.

The defense is no good. so you're always playing from behind and doing all that stuff, blah, blah, blah. Go to a better team. I think they still need to find a receiver. I think, obviously, you're hoping that you hit again with your – when you call run plays like you did last year. Not a guarantee, but you're hoping that obviously we've seen what he can do as like a quote-unquote play action quarterback

again going back all the way to like you know 15 16 17 he obviously still has a strong arm he's he's obviously very smart it's a lot of money still it's gonna be a lot of money but if you're the Colts it's like you you've created this things that you don't have a choice here you just got to cycle through them until it hits and I think the funny thing to me is gonna be and I don't think it'll happen with Ryan but it's going to be we're gonna cycle through these guys until we finish accidentally four and 13 and then and then and then we blow it up i have a name for this it's called it's called the natural tank it's like the like a natural hat trick the uh the the the unnatural tank is where you do it on purpose the natural tank is when the forces of sport just drive you into the dirt uh

on your philip rivers thing but the difference to me was while both were washed philip rivers still had this mentality that he was just gonna just get a gun sling the times i've seen matt ryan up close the last few years and they've played the vikings i don't think the gas is there on the fastball anymore and i don't think he's gutsy either. Yeah. I agree with you that it feels like things have just like kind of slowed down in a sense for him. And I'm hoping that,

you know, you're re rejuvenated for a year in a new scenario, in a new situation scenario. You know, that's, I think what, what obviously Indianapolis Colts fans, they're hoping for with that said,

it's an upgrade over Carson Wentz. Never mind Phillip Rivers, who we can have a debate about. It is very clearly an upgrade over Carson Wentz. Again, they gave up a lot. They gave up a lot for Carson Wentz and then didn't get obviously nearly as much in return. And then now they're taking on this contract, so it's like it better work eventually, but they were close. They, you know,

if Matt Ryan plays against the Jaguars in weeks 18 or 18 last year, they're in the playoffs. Right. So, so, you know, they're a playoff team. They're going to, they're going to be one of those teams where just like last year we said, well, you don't want to play them in the playoffs because you know, they can run the football blah blah blah and then they're going to make the playoffs and lose oh they're going to go somewhere in the first week of the playoffs and lose like they did two years ago with philip rivers so there you go and and that's the thing is you just don't see a ceiling on this as being any higher than making the playoffs but this is what happens when people

feel like they're about to lose their jobs as they do stuff that will get them to the playoffs that will kick the can down the road for one more year. If they were going to trade for anyone, they could have made them fairly legit. I'm going to say it. I think it was Kirk. Like I, it seems like you just want to get Kirk out of there. Well, we'll talk about that in a second. Uh, but, uh, you know, I know, I actually think, I actually think that in a team like this, Kirk cousins could take them to the playoffs and be a little scary. Now, you mentioned the other AFC quarterbacks. You're probably not winning the Super Bowl. In fact, you're definitely not winning the Super Bowl, but at least you could be scary with Matt Ryan. You're not scary with Kirk in a good offensive line and a running game and all those things, like, I think you kind of could have been. And it just, my understanding of how it went down is that the Colts just were not willing to go too high with the offer. And I think we saw what the offer probably would have been. If I, I think if I'm the Colts, I just ramp it up and go for it with Kirk and try to try to take that shot. Because I don't think Matt Ryan, there's like a world where Matt Ryan gets

you to the playoffs and loses the first round and a world where you win seven games. And those are the only two worlds with Matt Ryan, where with Kirk, at least we know what he looks like when he gets hot. I mean, you've picked him to be your MVP every year. So we know that. But, but, but I just think I'm not going to do it again this year. I'm over it. I think so. Hey, here's one thing that many of the outsiders have learned. Trust the people who are there every day. This is like the thing. I had this conversation with Robert Mays once because he, in 2018, was like, no, this team's going to be great.

I was like, have you seen the guards? He's like, oh, who cares about guards? I'm like, Kirk cares about guards. like oh who cares about guards i'm like kirk cares about guards that's who cares about guards but anyway so um i think anyway i think they should have traded for kirk i think that would have been a better move for them yeah but then they just said like what would be had been the return for kirk that's that's where they're like because now they're only giving up a third round pick when again we talked about them having lost the first-round pick already because of Carson Wentz and doing all that stuff, and maybe they just didn't want to go that high.

That's exactly what you're saying. They just didn't want to go that high. I think Kirk, I think right now Kirk is better than Matt Ryan. I think that there is a scenario where Ryan finds himself again. It might not be a very high. there is a scenario where Ryan finds himself again. It might not be a very high, you know, it might be a lot of maybe one specific parallel universe, and hopefully we're living in it if you're a Colts fan. But, yeah, I do think there's still somewhat of a ceiling there

that's high enough. But, again, I don't disagree with you that what is the highest ceiling? The AFC is just too good, man. I'm also looking right now for what age Matt Ryan was when he really started to fall off. Oh, look, the same age as Kirk Cousins is going to be next year. Anyway, that's – I mean, isn't there a parallel there? It's like Kirk is a worse version of Matt Ryan,

and they kind of need the same things to succeed, and age comes for everybody. And you tell me who it's going to work for. The jets, Jacksonville, Houston giants, Detroit, like any of these catch your, catch your eye at all of teams. The first thing you thinking of is,

is the Jaguars. If you believe in, in Trevor Lawrence, which I do. So he'll just be good. You know what what i mean like at the end of the day like if trevor lawrence is good then they're fine i'm not a huge fan of a lot of stuff they've done this offseason but with but it's like well cares if trevor lawrence is the number one overall pick type of guy and And I think that there were so many, obviously it wasn't great last year. But the more you read about how that last season went down in Jacksonville, the more you're like,

forget it, just forget it. It didn't happen. Let's give everyone a fresh start. And so I'm willing to do that with Florence. And of course he's the number one overall pick for a reason. So I'm okay with that. So to me yeah that's a jaguars jets man i'm i'm happy for them that they haven't been able to hit on any of the free agents kill trade yeah because i don't think they want to get bogged down right now with all with a bunch of money because i don't know if this is gonna look even that much better next year and the giants i mean you know they'll give it one more go with daniel jones i think we know who he is now so that doesn't really excite me that much and it's like regardless of like the

coaching staff you bring in like it's like oh yeah well dayball was there when josh allen developed and it's like well did josh allen develop like they they did tailor a lot of stuff to josh allen but that's not what what um daniel jones is so it's like you want to tailor tailor what to him like you can do very specific things with josh allen in terms of your philosophy on how to and what you're doing do you want to go with like the you know 87 first down pass rate if you're the giants like they had in buffalo last year with josh allen like no so then yeah okay like i'm not saying dable's like not a good it was all josh allen and dable's not a good oc and play caller and gonna be head coach it's just like the quarterback situation is so drastically different that i don't think you could count on just saying

well he developed josh allen therefore what's your favorite just real quick like what's your favorite like uh people deluding themselves in football thing i think we've just hit on two of those like matt ryan okay all right is he really old and not good anymore? Sure, but what if? And I mean, this one is even more ludicrous. Like Josh Allen is one of the most freaky freak shows that has ever been a freak in this NFL. I mean, he's like if Dante Culpepper hadn't gotten hurt and if Dante Culpepper never took sacks. That is the freakiest thing to me about Josh Allen.

He just does not get sacked. He either throws the ball away, he runs, or he just sheds off five tackles. So there's like this Roethlisberger-ness to him where he's not taking sacks. There's a playmaker. There's a 1,000-yard runner potential. There's 75 yards through the air. Like, oh, yeah, this sounds just like that quarterback from Duke who ran real fast once and fell down.

Like, what? Yeah, and that's the thing. sounds just like that quarterback from duke who ran real fast once and fell down like what yeah and that's the thing it's like you know what what they were able to do you know they put him in in like a like a real offense his first two years or whatever and obviously like you know year one they weren't sure he was gonna start he ends up starting his you know their scene court is bad like kevin benjamin's playing a bunch of snaps is really bad but like what you can do with him is like i said you can throw the ball every time because he can be a runner you know what i mean uh he got so much better as a as bingham just like throw a check down like playing quarterback and maybe that's on table for sure i don't know. They don't play with a tight end. They don't keep a running back into block. It's like, how fun if your quarterback is not a freak,

how fun with all the, because what happened to the bills this, this year in them, you know, when they were kind of, okay okay we weren't sure what the bills were doing the offense wasn't great they go into jacksonville only score six points like hey what's going on here one of the things that was happening was they were so spread the teams were saying okay well we can we now can treat first down like it's third down yeah and we don't have to come with our base package and just everyone just sit there and zone or man we just everyone just plays out regular defense we can come with our third down packages

for first down okay and a lot of what a lot of that meant was they could come with they could rush for from exotic locations so you're you're you're sending a linebacker but you're dropping off an end and you're you're showing this but you're actually coming linebacker, but you're dropping off an end, and you're showing this, but you're actually coming from the other side and doing all that stuff. And again, if you're only protecting with five often, you guess wrong in setting your protection, you get a free rusher, right? And now you're lucky that Josh Allen obviously can make plays. But for the most part, it was tough on them.

You know, teams were sitting back in cover two, running all these simulated pressures, stuff like that, and it was really tough on them. They had to settle it down too. They had to bring more tight ends, more fullbacks onto the field and get under center a little bit more and kind of like try and find that balance, which was like, guys defense says hello we can run the ball here we might do it we might hand the ball off and it's like that can't don't

live in that you cannot live in that world with dan jones like you just can't right it's a very specific world where um you could have two good seasons and the 2020 season especially um where they didn't face these problems because teams were not doing the stuff that they did to them in 2021, and you have this MVP-type season to get to the AFC Championship game. So, like, yeah, it's just all I have to say, don't expect Daniel Jones to look like Josh Allen next year. I don't think I'm saying anything crazy here, but that's what I'm getting at.

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And well, the last team of course, on my list here for us to discuss would be the Minnesota Vikings and what Vikings fans are being asked to talk themselves into, which is to do the same thing over again. And Kweisi Adafo-Mensah calling it a competitive rebuild, which I don't really know. Well, I just need to see the rebuild part. Like what's the rebuild part? I see the competitive part of keeping cousins and keeping everybody else. I just don't see the competitive part. But I do wonder if they would draft a quarterback who falls to the second, if they would trade back and draft a quarterback.

If there's one of the guys who I don't think Malik Willis is now getting to 12, but like that would be the rebuild part if they were going to do it. But do you think that that would be a good idea if they were to draft a future quarterback? In this draft no now if you want to take him in the second round maybe obviously then you might have another kellen mon on your hands which turned out not to be that great but yeah i'm not what what i just what is the point of taking kenny pickett at 12 like sorry like what is the point just to get another kirk cousins type of mean, he's not really

Kirk Cousins type, but, like, that level, that is your maximum ceiling with Kenny Pickett. Obviously, like, the caveat for any quarterback draft is, like, we go back to the processing thing. If they just randomly hit on and become this unbelievable processor, then, yeah, great. Congratulations. You've figured out how to draft quarterbacks but um for the most part like can't pick its ceiling is like

is a good Kirk Cousins year probably and that's like at the Max uh you know I like Ritter um he would be interesting to me I think he's he's a back half of the first round type of guy who might get pushed up because of this draft class. You know, you said Willis is not hitting there. I think you're better off like, I don't know. I don't know about Willis, man. He's like probably my QB1, and yet I got problems. So this draft class just doesn't do it for me,

especially at 12 in this weird position at 12. Look, you extended kirk it's not like you're you know next year you're your quarterback um deficient you're still gonna have him so i don't know maybe kind of hoping for the natural tank you're right right because next year next year you know bryce young and you got c.J. Stroud and you got all these guys. Maybe Spencer Rattler has a comeback here and he's a prospect again. But this year's class, it just doesn't move me that much. Okay.

I've got a quote from Kweisi Adafomensa to read you, and I want you to tell me how this is going to work, okay? Because the thing that we've been talking about for four years, every offensive coordinator, Mike Zimmer is how to get more out of Kirk cousins. All right. It's just been this, uh, this never ending question. So here's what Kwesi Adafo-Mensah said when I asked him, do you guys believe that you can get more out of Kirk cousins? He says, we do. Football's one of those sports where you're looking at three plays a game, right? Can you get them in second and six versus second and 11? Can you eliminate some of the stuff, the bad things that can happen?

That's not Kirk. That's any player. And we always talk about winning on the margins and things like that. You can win on the margins from a personnel basis by putting him in better situations and from a scheme basis, putting him in better situations. So you're Mr. Scheme scheme me, tell me how this works.

I mean, what is, what, what is it that they would see that they would say we see room around the margins and we've already covered the run on second down thing. They did it too much, but everybody knows what else, what else?

Former coach. Hmm. second down thing. They did it too much. Everybody knows. What else? What else, former coach? I liked their offense the past few years. I knew it! What do you want me to tell you? I liked that they loved their... I mean, loved it. Whatever. From a macro perspective, I think

they... And again, yeah, okay, so they ran the ball too much in the second down. Whatever. From a macro perspective, I thought and again yeah okay so they ran the ball too much in the second down like whatever but like from a macro perspective I thought what's really going to change what more can you do now like at the end of the day like the best play callers are the ones that get their quarterback to

their first read as often as possible and that's a very micro thing that is tough to like you know i watch a lot of film but that's tough for me to just to like know about every quarterback in the league and you know stuff like that so yeah if kevin o'connell i guess i assume he's calling plays if kevin o'connell can get kirk cousins to the right regardless of the concept regardless of the concept whether it's a drop back this this concept, or play action, this concept, whatever.

If he can get Kirk Cousins to his first read more often than the last play callers, sure, it'll be better. But I don't think from a macro perspective there's anything more you can do. I'm curious to see their fullback usage. I like what they do with C.J. Hamm on the field. Me too. You put C.J. Hamm on the field field defenses respond to it in a certain way in a in a in a way that is defined that the quarterback knows how they're going to respond to it so so you know they'll do other

things to do that and that's kind of been what the rams have been very good at for for a few years you know especially in the golf years. But I'm curious. I'm very curious to see how they use their fullback, how they use their personnel packaging, the tight ends. But, like, at the end of the day, like, it's really going to be that micro stuff about, like, can O'Connell get Kirk Cousins to his first read more often than not. So that, you know, the second you start getting into progressions and processing your,

your turnover worthy play percentage goes up. Your big time throw percentage goes down. Your completion rate goes down, et cetera, et cetera. So can you do that for your quarterback? Can you help your quarterback a lot in what, like I said, whatever concept they're going to, they're calling on that particular guy in distance and play.

So that to me is from a micro perspective, yes, you can. From a macro perspective, it's not going to look that differently unless they just don't play with the fullback anymore and do all that stuff. But they're going to run outside zone. They're going to boot off outside zone. It's going to look the same. So just using the Pff quarterback annual cousins threw to

his first read more often than the average quarterback and was one of the most successful quarterbacks in the league throwing to his first read that's where it's hard to see it changing because they were already over the last three years having some of the most success throwing to their first reads as anybody, but it's second reads, it's scrambles, it's check downs. It's making something out of those things that they just haven't been able to do. So when they say win around the margins, it's like, okay, well, I get you and your offense was 14th and can you get it to 10th? But what does 10th do for you? Right? So I think that's where, that's where my skepticism exists. And I know that,

you know, that's tough to be in a spot where we're just saying, Oh, look, the same conversation again about Kirk cousins. And you and I've had it what three, four times on the show already, but like, that's the, that's the area where I think, okay, we've got answers to how we're going to be better, but the data already shows that the coaching was good. So I don't know what to do with that. Are you getting a different player outside the pocket this year? No. Are you getting a different player, you know, under pressure? No.

You're hoping, and that was kind of one of my themes as I thought about my writing from last season, from the 2021 season. It was like, oh, this player is playing well. Why is he playing well? Because over this four-game stretch, over this eight-game stretch, over this year stretch, he made plays outside the pocket. That's not Kirk. That's never going to be Kirk. Now, he does give you a floor in terms of his pocket ability.

He is obviously a very good quarterback in the pocket. But it's like, again, we go back to the same thing. Now the NFC is not the AFC anymore, but how are you going to get to the playoffs and then win three games? You've got to be so damn good from

inside the pocket. Your play calling has to be legit for three straight games inside the pocket. In terms of getting your quarterback to his first read, that's tough. You want to be able to just say, hey, we made a bad – A, I made a bad play call. Called a bad – called the wrong play. They gave us this look. We thought we were getting this look.

It didn't work. Okay. The quarterback says, oh, I missed my first read because I'm blind or whatever. And you want to be able to say it doesn't matter because I run around in the backfield and I make a play. Right? And you just don't get that with Kirk. All right. Let's wrap on this.

Which NFL player is most like Mark Reckie? Jesus. Is this too? What's your... He's like a small... Reckie was like a small, elite, like skillful player, but small like Scrappy,

but skillful, right? Yeah. Yeah. Man, that's tough. That's tough. Is he like a Cooper Cup? Yeah. Yeah.

That's good. I like that. That's not bad at all. Well, when is your years? Because that... Is that a little early for you, Mark Reckie? I was... He... I was... Yeah, that's good. I like that. That's not bad at all. Well, when is your years? Is that a little early for you, Mark Reckie? I was a little too early for me, but I do remember some Mark Reckie years. I do remember him more on the flyers, though. All right, let me see. I'll get you.

Okay, how about Richard Zednik? Who would be the... Man, Richard Zednik. The only thing I remember, Richard Zednik was his... He used to wear really long shin pads. That's what I remember. His shin pads would go like... Yeah. There's nothing I remember about Richard Zednik, to be honest. Well, actually, no.

He got... He's the one that got cut. Yeah, cut in Florida, right? That's right. So this would be like a Joe Theismann type of situation that ended his career. Yeah, I'm just poking through these. These teams from the early 2000s, what a horror show. I mean, old Doug Gilmore, Joe Juno.

Well, Gilmore was good for like a year and a half. They got him for the playoff run in one year. That was fun. So the Canadians in those years, for a long time, were in this Vikings territory where they just could never tank. They could never get bad enough to go out and like reset everything with a top draft pick. They're about to do it, but it's like 15 years too late. You know, the Canadians are about to get the number one overall pick but yeah they just were always they were always okay they would

always finish eight seven you know one year okay they finished second or something in the east and you you were tantalized because in 2010 they went on a run all the way to the conference finals. And you're like, see, we're not that far. We're not that far. And you were far. You continue to be far because you can never find that superstar. You had a team of really good players and never had a superstar at the important positions besides goalie, I guess. And the Vikings are kind of in the same way.

And again, I'll play up the Kirk Cousins for MVP talk any day of the week, but at the end of the day, it's going to continue to be like this until it really just crumbles. Gosh, Montreal is just such a perfect comparison. It's like lost in the semifinals, lost in the quarterfinals, lost in the conference finals. Wow, Montreal is just such a perfect comparison. It's like lost in the semifinals, lost in the quarterfinals, lost in the conference finals. Wow. What a year lost in the quarterfinals, lost in the quarterfinals, lost in the second round. It's just like, oh man. And they would always have, they would always have these like really good players that you would absolutely

want on your team, but you just couldn't get the one guy. And that's where, when Kweisi Adafomensa said another one of his quotes, it's like, well, it's the, you know, football's not about one guy. And you're like, well, it is. Sorry, but that's kind of how it goes. All right. Well, best of luck to your tanking Canadians, the natural tank. They've gone through that.

And I really enjoyed the conversation, man. Always fun to get together with you. The Too High podcast. Who's going to be, Deontay Lee is leaving, you guys. So is there a co-host opening people should be applying for at pff.com or what? We're trying to figure it out. We're trying to figure it out right now. There will be episodes going forward.

Just maybe – I haven't really decided yet. But we're maybe a little too far out from like me being able to just like team getting on you to talk about the Vikings getting on someone else talk about the Bears or whatever but there will be some guest hosting I guess in the in the near future for so still subscribe to the Too High podcast wherever you get your podcasts and and I'll see you there yeah just good for Deontay, man. I mean, like, uh, great to meet him at the combine and you guys have done great content together. And I don't know if it's been announced where he's going yet. So I'll just say congratulations to

him. Um, I don't know if you put it out there yet, but either way. So yeah, not, not yet, but it's good. So anyway, uh, well, great stuff. And, uh, I'm happy to help you with your podcasting at any time, Seth. We'll talk to you later, man. Thanks for your time.