Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - PFF's Seth Galina talks Vikings pick Lewis Cine's 'positional value' and the madness of trying to be good at the NFL Draft

Episode Date: May 5, 2022

Pro Football Focus college analyst Seth Galina joins Matthew Coller to talk about scouting the quarterbacks this year and why the NFL only believed in Kenny Pickett. He discussed Lewis Cine's "positional value" and why there is so much talk about the "consensus" draft boards following the draft. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar here, and we have another guest who I have to question about why more quarterbacks weren't taken early in the draft. Seth Galina, Pro Football Focus, makes a return appearance to the show. Seth, let's begin there. We'll get into the Vikings. I also want to talk time horizons for football teams because that's one of the sayings that quesia da fomenta likes and i'm interested about how you think they changed with the draft but everybody's first question this week is what happened to all the quarterbacks oh i thought the first question was did i have skyline chili this morning and the answer is yes so this might be a short podcast okay yeah quarterbacks why did they go um i i actually think this is it is fascinating because i think what ended up happening is you know i made this joke about how all all these

quarterbacks are in this you know this draft class are qb3 like there was really no qb1 and qb2 but i think given what the nfl had told us for the past 10-15 years it's like okay even though we all think that all these quarterbacks have massive flaws and we don't see them as generational in any way that we thought that that didn't matter like in terms of them being valued as first round picks and clearly that just not um i believe it's probably an aberration i don't think we're just we're just not going to see this um very often so but at the end of the day like we said they weren't first round picks we went through the cycle and and we said, okay, but actually they're going to get picked in the first round.

So it kind of, like, evened out by the end, and they obviously were not. Did I think that, like, a guy like Sam Howell was going to go as late as he did? No. It's just he was not a first-round quarterback. And I don't even think Kenny Pickett – I mean, Kenny Pickett's the only one who won the first round, and I don't think he's a first-round quarterback either. He was the only one that moved up because he was a quarterback. Obviously, he goes to probably the neediest team there in terms of needing a quarterback

because you look at Seattle and you still have a young player there in Drew Locke where you feel he – I mean, you convince yourself probably wrongly that he's going to turn around, new situation. That never actually really happens. Atlanta goes out and gets Marcus Mariota, who can be a competent starter. And then they still go get a quarterback in the second round, Desmond Ritter. So I don't even think even the quarterback needy teams really that needy this year. So when you look at it, all putting all that together,

it almost doesn't surprise you that they, that they all fell down the, down quite a bit. Yeah. I think that the most surprising thing to me was what you said that nobody was willing to sort of quote, take a shot. And, you know, usually with somebody that's talked about in the way that Malik Willis has talked about teams will take a shot.

Whereas, you know, Desmond Ritter was sort of a safer quarterback. You know, I made fun of people like yourself who talked about his footwork. I was like, yeah, well he can't throw the ball that good.

So, you know, it's just like, you know, like I'm sure he's got that or whatever, but you thought, okay, maybe somebody would be so into the rookie quarterback contract that they would go, well, look, Jared Goff, wasn't even that great. And his team went to a super bowl and we've seen that many times, but I guess what maybe was underestimated is that these were a lot of Kellen Mond level prospects. And I guess we thought that they would reach and they just decided, no, we're not going to reach. I think the thing specifically with Willis is, you know, I look at quarterbacks who got picked highly. But, you know, we looked at their college tape and we said well it's a tools guy and

you're just hoping that he figures something out in terms of like processing i know it's a that's like a word that gets bandied about probably too much but he figures that in terms of his processing and then then he becomes a quarterback and then you know talking to some people um who know like justin herbert it's like oh but this guy is like a he's like a um like a he's got like a photographic memory so yeah it didn't work out in in oregon and then you hear stuff like okay what about the coaching staff there and whatever and it's like okay well i get it why it can work out very quickly in the nfl if he got that type of brand. And the thing with Willis that I wonder, and I have no source of, so I just, it's just an idea.

I wonder if he came to the team's meetings and he went on the board with them because the processing was not there. Like in terms of him playing like quarterback stuff was not there on tape. And I wonder if he would have went out and impressed him on the board they would have said oh he's gonna figure it out you know it was just the offense it was just a liberty offense he wasn't asked to do this he wasn't coached blah blah blah so I and given the success of Herbert and Josh Allen for example it's like oh well we'll take Willis I would imagine that he went on the board and he did what he was supposed to do,

but it wasn't like he didn't go above and beyond. I mean, that's just really my theory, and I don't want to make – I do want to make it clear that that's really just a Seth Galena theory, and no one's told me anything about that stuff. So that would be my idea of why he specifically fell to that much because, like you said, the tools are absolutely incredible. Arm strength, A+, legs, A+. It's just like the actual – and the accuracy isn't like horrible. that much because like you said the tools are absolutely incredible arm strength a plus legs a plus um it's just like you know the actual and the accuracy isn't like horrible um it's like i think

it's like relatively average um not he's not inaccurate so for a guy like that to fall as much as he did to me it tells you that a he couldn't overcome the whole playing quarterback thing on tape um when he was in the meetings and talking quarterback thing on tape when he was in the meetings and talking to those guys. Not that he's like a, not a smart person. He just is very different type of trait, I guess.

Right. And the other part of it too, in the comparison to Josh Allen that we forget, but might matter to the football people and they might be right. Is the height element of this too where I mean look Russell Wilson made it but Josh Allen is six foot five maybe six six he is an impossible human being to sack because of this he can see the entire field because of this and and Wilson has overcome it Kyler Murray has somewhat overcome it, but most quarterbacks don't. And we're talking about somebody who's six feet tall and so completely raw that, I mean,

you might be talking about, instead of, we think that he was going to be Josh Allen, they thought he was going to be Brad Smith or something. You know what I mean? Like, or Antoine Randall L or just like they, they, they might've thought he was so far away from being a real NFL quarterback that it just wasn't worth the investment because the investment would have to be huge. And plus, once you take him, then all the fans want him to be the franchise quarterback. They buy his jersey, the owner. You have to convince the owner that this is going to be the next guy.

Like one of the things about taking shots at quarterbacks is that, you know, everyone's going to think, oh, they drafted him in the first round. That is your guy. That's your franchise quarterback. And you sort of build your whole team around that person. That's why it becomes difficult if you have no belief that these raw tools can ever actually turn into a real NFL quarterback. And I think, you know, when you mentioned Russell Wilson and Kyler Murray as short quarterbacks and even like Drew Brees back in the day, it's like, these guys are supremely accurate, especially obviously Brees and obviously Russell Wilson, like pinpoint accurate, which again, like I said, like, I don't think Willis is inaccurate. I just don't think he is like, he's certainly not Russell Wilson in terms of that. And probably not even Kyler Murray in terms of that. So like, at least they had something that

they could kind of hang their hat on, which, which she did. And then I, obviously I agree with you in terms of, you know, you look at him and some of the other guys in your life, Hey, we got to hang our hat on this player that we picked in the first round and they better they better wow us somewhere um you know again in terms of playing the quarterback position and i don't think or or in the meeting rooms or this or that and and i just clearly to me um with willis and not just willis with ritter with howell with corral and not just Willis, with Ritter, with Howell, with Corral. It just – something wasn't there for all of them, and that's why they go so much later. You just – and then you end up in a situation where you feel –

like if you're Atlanta, you feel great. You have no pressure for Des and Ritter to succeed. You're in a rebuild. You, in my opinion, hit on a few picks in the draft. I really like what they did. And you can just chill. Like, hey, you can give them – I heard 50-50 reps in training camp with him and Mariota.

Let's see what happens. If not, we can fall back on Mariota. And, you know, we didn't waste a premium pick on a quarterback. It doesn't work out. So they're in a good spot, obviously. Even Washington's somewhat in a good spot in the same situation where you have this mid-tier to low-tier veteran quarterback, and you just say, hey, we're not tied to Sam Howell.

We went out and we got Carson Wentz. Obviously, they paid too much. We understand that. But they. We went out and we got Carson Wentz. Obviously, they paid too much. We understand that. But they decided they were going to go with Carson Wentz. And you can just ease him along, give him more reps than Taylor Heineke, who we kind of know at this point is probably not a starting quarterback in the NFL, and kind of see what you got there without all this unbelievable pressure on him to start day one,

to get all the reps in training camp. But, again, it's like this is what we thought all these quarterbacks were. And then the cycle happened. You know, the January to April draft cycle happened, and we convinced ourselves that these were all first-round picks. And then I think they probably honestly ended up where they all should have been. Yeah, and that's the last point I wanted to make on it is just that I think that if a lot of people had maybe trusted themselves on this and not gone

like, Oh, senior bowl, I guess he did a little more here. And Oh, you know, somebody would take a shot because of this and that. And while this reporter says that there could be three first round draft picks, like I remember we talked weeks and weeks ago, I think kind of before all that stuff. And you're like, these quarterbacks are horrible, man. There's like nothing there. And my thing was if they evaluate a guy as even a fringe first rounder, we don't know which one will turn out. And Kenny Pickett might end up being really good. Like we don't know that based on what they did in college because circumstance has so much to do with it.

But if the league doesn't evaluate a guy as a first round pick, I mean, the odds just drop to almost nothing. And so they're basically saying it's not even worth taking that shot. But I think that was a lot of people's instinct to watch a lot of tape like yourself and who know what they're looking for with quarterback play. But then you just sort of get talked into it the more you go along you see well like all the top draft analysts are saying and those guys are dialed in and everything else and then it ends up being exactly what you thought at the start yeah i mean that's literally what happened to me especially with willis and honestly all the guys it was like oh well if he hits i'm gonna look like an idiot because I said he was a fifth round quarterback or something. And you kind of have to, you know, and I think like, you know, we're always afraid of that in the media of like looking like an idiot.

Right. And I've looked like an idiot so many times that I think I can just probably get over it at this point. But like the Willis thing to me is crazy because that's really what it was for a lot of people to put him as quarterback one was just like, man, but, but if he hits, there's no middle, there's no middle tier for a guy like Malik Willis. It's either he, if he hits, it's like, he's a tier one quarterback in the league. And if he doesn't, it's like, he can't be on a roster or, you know what I mean? Like, so it's like he's a tier one quarterback in the league. And if he doesn't, it's like he can't be on a roster. You know what I mean?

So it's like you were like, okay, I don't want to be a – I don't want to like – you're putting your reputations on the line here and saying like, oh, this guy's QB1, QB2, QB3. So it's like, all right, well, if any of these guys hit, it's Malik Willis. So I guess we'll go there but um yeah like like you said the nfl kind of evaluated this the same way and said we don't want to touch these guys man like we're afraid of all these guys and even pick it man like the steelers are probably the closest team you know i mentioned some other teams before the

steelers are the team that needs a quarterback, given where they are with the franchise. They always feel like they can compete because the defense has always been good. There's some playmakers on offense to a certain degree that feel like they've won so many games in the past two years

with basically the worst quarterback in the league that, hey, if we just get something here, we can comfortably you know, comfortably make the playoffs. And that's the only team that did it. Like, and that makes it kind of, to me, that makes the most sense. Now, I have my issues with Kenny Pickett.

Like, I have my issues with all these guys. But then it just becomes a situation where you're like, like, would you have, there's nothing. They could have taken any quarterback there at pick 20. And we would have had the same discussion. There's like zero. This thing would have been different.

Cause we all would have said, okay, well, yeah, he's got some strength, but here are the, this flaw and that flaw and that flaw with all these guys, they decided,

can you pick it? Maybe there's a connection there with Pittsburgh. I don't know. But that's what they decided. And it's pretty much, again, hindsight is 20-20. But when you think about it, this is really the only team that it made sense for them to feel like they needed a splash right now for the 2022 season. I also think what we lost sight of with Kenny Pickett was he was the only

quarterback out of this group that actually played really good football in college last year. And, you know, and, and as you mentioned, like usually when they bring guys in one of the things that they do is they'll have them go through the whiteboard, but if they have them in a top 30 visit, they'll take them out on the field and they'll say, you know, like remember this play kind of, what was it that we told you like the old John Gruden camp stuff. And some guys are really terrific in that setting. And some guys really struggle in that setting. And that would

make a difference to them. And you would have, like you said, really great Intel into what kind of leader he's going to be and that sort of stuff. And all these things really matter. Probably what matters the most when you don't have this super high end prospect is just how well he's going to be and that sort of stuff. And all these things really matter. Probably what matters the most when you don't have this super high end prospect is just how well he's going to pick up NFL stuff. And if you can pick up NFL stuff and they can give you a lot of things, then you've got a chance at least to be a winning quarterback. But the thing that I would factor with Pittsburgh on that, and then we can get into our time horizons discussion here

with some different teams and what they did in the draft, but who are you beating? That's the problem in that division. It's like, who are you beating? You're not beating the Deshaun Watson Browns. You're not beating Lamar Jackson Ravens. I mean, it's just the Cincinnati Bengals. It's just going to be really, really tough for them.

So I would even say the team that drafted the quarterback, even though they needed it that badly, that's probably one where Pittsburgh should have laid back and hope that there's an angry quarterback next year that wants to be a stealer, right? As opposed to saying that we're going to have this young guy. But the other quarterbacks, I mean, aside from Burrow, the other quarterbacks will either are or will be expensive. So maybe that's their time horizon. It's a fascinating discussion, though, I think, of what happened with the quarterbacks. I'll add that, you know, we talk about, like, them, the teams actually getting to sit down with these players. Like you said, whether it's at the Senior Bowl, at the Combine, a top 30 visit etc etc when you think about passing like the act

of passing like so much of it in any sport it's really this i this you need this guy who is you know i use the the term you know photographic memory with justin herbert um you need this guy who like has a has a memory to make these type of plays. And it goes throughout sport. Right. It's like you look at the greatest passers in hockey and soccer and basketball. They have this this this these images in their head that a lot like people don't have. And you can you you can only really find that when you talk to them. And I would imagine if you went back and you look through all these great quarterbacks over time or all these, again, like all these great midfielders in soccer, like you would find very similar. Like I'm not a scientist here. Very similar brain structures. you know what i mean like there would there would be something that that ties them all together in terms of how they

their their vision how their brain works and stuff like that and again you can only see that stuff when you're when you're talking to them and you tell them remember this play that we that we talked about three hours ago go do it and then they get it. And then again, like again, going back to Herbert, it's like, that's what I'm hearing is Herbert's deal and why he could come into the league and just be as fantastic as he is. Folks, while there is plenty of classic football gear to check out at Soda Stick,

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Use the code PURPLEINS Insider for 15 percent off. Well, there's a great story Steve Young told about how once he realized you have to throw the ball while not having any idea what anything looks like where you're throwing it. He got it like he you can't see it from the pocket, but you just have to throw it anyway. And that was what got him to the next level and that's really amazing to think about and so i i love playing pickup basketball and rec league basketball and things like that i get total tunnel vision with the basketball like i i know how this happened like you get the ball and i you know i'm a i'm a good passer of the ball but like seeing where everybody is is a huge huge problem for me. Um, so I usually hang out on the three point line and gun from there, but I can just imagine how there are certain

people that have just such a wider cone of vision, like the old Madden game and who just see the whole picture. Whereas I'm just like looking at the one guy I'm throwing the ball to, and that's about it. And yeah, how you figure that out in the pre-draft process. Like, I don't know. I'm, I'm sure they're, they're trying everything they could, but you know, in terms of, so let's talk about the Vikings a little bit here and just get your kind of take on that because you would have watched more Lewis seen than I have seen. Right. Yeah. That's probably people unsubscribed i gotta go matt i'm sorry i can't i gotta go i can't be with you anymore all right sorry uh well your your your take as a

college football analyst on passing on james jameson williams and drafting lewis c well i think the first thing i'll say about scene is that I don't think he was – I do think Kyle Hamilton was the best safety in the class, but I don't think C is that far from him. I do think it was – those two were – you know, it's like, all right, Hamilton was tier one and probably the only player at that position in tier one, but I don't think C is like tier two. He's more like tier 1.5 so honestly to get him that

many picks after him is not the not a bad deal now obviously we can talk about you know where they need help more and and you know what why they're drafting on defense and stuff like that that's a whole different story but in terms of him as a player i think he fits everything you want and the quote-unquote modern safety. He can play all the different positions. He's very smart. He has the speed to show you he's doing this and then not actually do it post-nap, show you he's doing that and not actually do it post-nap.

He does come from that Georgia goblin school, I'm going to hit everything that moves and I don't feel pain type of thing, which, you know, you love to see. So, you know, that's going to go well. I think you didn't ask me this and maybe we don't want you to get into it, but in terms of like the positional value thing, the more I think about defense, the more I'm like the, I think that on defense, and this is not the case on offense, I don't think, but on defense, you can build the whole thing out of elite players

at positions where we – at any position. Like, I think that – and I keep going back to the same thing, which is the 49ers playoff run last year and seeing how Fred Warner, their Mike linebacker, changed everything they could do on defense. So, you know, I look at, okay, yeah, safety, like, I don't know, like maybe take a corner and take an edge. They did take a corner after that. But I just think you can change a lot what you can do.

You can help other players. You can figure out a defense that works for you based on whoever you get on defense. Obviously, you know, we talked about the Eagles taking an interior defensive lineman early in the middle of the first round. You can build out of that. Again, you can't necessarily do it on offense, which is why we talk about premium positions, quarterback, tackle, receiver on that side of the ball. But I do think on defense, like I just because I took a safety, like if he's really good. And again, we don't know how good who's going to be good. But if he is good, if he is a first round talent, you can figure it out and you can make it work around him. So I totally agree with you that if you're talking about elite players at their position,

positional value is different. It's just a different conversation. But if it's the more broad strokes of like, if you draft a safety in the first round and the guy is average, you have wasted your draft pick. If you draft a receiver in the first round and he's average, you've got a nice draft pick. And I think that's where some of the conversation changes when you take a guy at 32nd, because the likelihood is just so much more that he's going to be an average to above average player than it is to an elite player.

Now, that being said, I've been very impressed with Lewis Seen. I mean, I've gone and watched some people's film reviews and things like that, but more so seeing him talk and listening to him. And this is somebody who's had a lot of, is very impressive. He's had a lot of life experiences. I wrote about it for a site of just how, like, he's moved around a lot in his life. He's played at this extremely high level. He's got a lot of mentors.

He's very mature. He's got a daughter already. I mean, he's kind of like a grown-up guy at a very young age, which I think, you know, that intelligence, are you really a film junkie, all those things, especially pairing him with Harrison Smith. So there's this sort of push and pull of like, look, if the guy turns out to be a great player, you just need great players to win the Super Bowl. And Aaron Donald being a DT or a DE doesn't really matter that much because he's just dominating.

But if it's not, then you start to question it. And then the other part of it is we're always going to forever have him tied to Jamison Williams and the decision not to pick him. And that's going to be a hard one because if Jamison Williams burns Louis Seane over the top, I mean, you're just going to go like, there it is.

There's the thing that everybody worried about on draft night. And when you trade out of that spot, you probably trade out of that elite player area of the draft. Yeah. I mean, look, I think that I'm more curious, but I don't really have an opinion.

I look like I hate to do this. I don't really have an opinion about the trade. I'm like, I do think it's a little, it seemed like a little rich to me to trade back and not really get that much as much in return. I know that like the more advanced analysis of the trade says that it was pretty equal or that they even want to trade. But yeah, I agree. Like the issue is like, analysis of the trade says that it was pretty equal or that they even won the trade but yeah i agree like the issue is like you're passing on the consensus elite players in the draft and hoping that you you you come up um come up gold here with a later later pick and i think that

the way that them taking scene and then taking Andrew Booth tells me that they're like, Hey, we like these two players. We felt like these were positions of need for us. We understand that there's risk for both of them. Obviously with, with Booth it's,

it's, it's injury stuff. I think with scenes, honestly with scenes, it's like he, he, he hits people hard and that might be a concern going forward um and we're just like hey we're taking two stabs at it here like kind of in the same corner i mean corner may be a little more valuable quote unquote but like

we're taking two stabs at it here and we're hoping one of them one of them that works out um because we just maybe they just didn't feel comfortable with those players in that range now i think i think you know my my analysis is like there were good players in that range for them to take especially in your but like the issue with them is like like, are they in a rebuild? They're not in a rebuild. They are in a rebuild. Like, maybe they just felt like they didn't – I don't know. Like, it just felt like there were elite players for them to take there for me. Again, not that I don't like seeing or Andrew Booth. It just, like, felt like to me going back all that way when there were players there to take that fell to you, like Jamison Williams, it felt weird to me.

Like, this is my thing with trading back. It's like, I have no problem trading back, but let's see who falls to us first. Let's see what we can do without even getting up out of our seats. Let's see who falls to us. And I thought good players fell to them in that range, and they still decided to trade out of it. And that's why some people suggested to me that they had sort of predetermined their outcome. They were going to trade down no matter what, and that's what they ended up deciding to do, regardless of who was there, even though there

were some top talents there. And that's how I think that long-term this draft will be defined is the players that you decided weren't worth it for you. And I'll throw Kenny Pickett in that mix as well, considering where the Vikings are with their time horizon, which is like you said, not exactly in a competitive and not exactly in a rebuild. And so at least one team, a very successful team overall, historically decided just like last year with Mac Jones, that there was a quarterback there who was worth it. And you said, no, no, we're good. We're going to trade back. We're not going to take that guy. The same goes for a potentially elite receiver, a potentially elite safety, a potentially elite defensive tackle. Like all those guys, you said, no, no, we don't think that they are.

So we're going to move back. And so the, unfortunately, Lewis scene will get sort of pinned with this. Like you're the first round pick. It's not that really doesn't have anything to do with him. It's more about the people that you passed on that will long be the discussion about this draft. I think that, you know, you bring up the Patriots taking

Mac Jones and you look at what the Patriots did this year, reaching for a guard at the end of the first round. And I've been thinking about this. It's like, you know, one of the issues is like, when you, I don't like the idea of doing your own thing. Like, yes, you're putting all this money into it and you're coming, you have all these, yes, you're putting all this money into it, and you're coming, you have all these scouts, you have all these people in the personnel department, you're coming up with a big board. But at the end of the day, like, you suck.

Like, we all suck at this. We're all freaking terrible at this. Like, understand, have some, you know what I mean, have some, like, modesty to say, okay, wait a minute. Why am I the only guy, you know, this is more specific to the Patriots, but it does relate to the Vikings. Why am I the only guy who had Cole Strange

as a first round pick? Like that's not, that's, I got to look at myself in the mirror and ask that question. Why is he a consensus third round pick? And I'm the only guy who had in the first round like that's a me problem that's not a league problem that's a me problem now again the kid you know he might be a he might be a turned out to be a pro ball guard i don't know like

you never know about these things but at the end of the day you probably still could have gotten the third round and you'd rather have still have your first round pick at that point so and with the vikings it's kind of the same thing, but in the opposite, which is like, okay, well, am I the only one who doesn't feel like these picks at 12 are elite? That I have to trade all the way, you know, 20 spots back. Like that's where you have to take a look at yourself in the mirror and say, why are we thinking this way when the league feels a completely different way? So, yeah, like I, that's to me is is one of the issues with i think just drafting in general and i think we understand that like teams and you

look at a guy like bill belichick who's had so much success over his career yeah i i would understand why he would think i see a pro bowl guard right there i I watch the tape of UT Chattanooga, and I see a Pro Bowl guard. But the problem is we know that the last 10 years of drafting for Bill Belichick has not been very good. So, yeah, that's kind of where I am. Like, I'm more believer in, like, consensus boards than ever, I think, because of that, because we're just bad at this we're so bad at um at understanding how players are going to project at the next level and like we do stuff like

you know we had this discussion just now about like oh the guy we brought a guy in for a visit and we taught him this play and then without you know we kind of snuck up on him three hours later asking him to run this play and it's like that, that sounds good, but we get like, I've been a quarterback coach for a long time. I've been, you know what I mean? I've been around coaches for a long time. We get excited for that stuff. That doesn't mean anything. Like, we don't know, like, yeah, I just said it means something, but it's like, it's the whole picture that means more than just this individual thing that he did where he remembered to play three hours later but coaches love that so it's like we we're so we're so freaking bad at this and it's like yeah i i have my own evaluations and i i was upset i'm a saints fan i wasn't happy when they took trevor penny because my personal evaluation was that he was not a 19th overall pick type of player.

But, like, you know, we have to, like, take a step back. And teams have to take a step back and say, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. If I'm the only one who has this evaluation, then maybe I'm the asshole here. here well you know there's another part of this too which is how much do they even know what the outside world says about these guys because you know i've run into this with pff grades for example where teams will say we would never look at a pff grade. And you're like, well, there's a person who grades the every game. And then there's another person who played in the NFL who cross-checks that grade. And then they put it together. And so let's say that your team thinks the guy's average and PFF likes him a little more. Well, then you saw, okay, so why is that? And, you know, Anthony Harris is a good

example of this, of somebody who like had some splash plays that got graded very high, but that's not who he really was in a small sample. But if somebody like, for example, Matt Khalil has a horrendous PFF grade, you should look at that and be like, okay, why do our coaches say that this guy's good and we should extend him? And the Vikings tried once upon a time uh and and yet the people who are independently watching this and grading tackle play is not super hard to grade uh it's like did you get beat or not and you should be saying like the outside and this goes the same thing where it's like if there's a guy that nfl.com pff cbs sports everybody you know the athletic if they all think that this person is a fifth-round draft pick

and you're taking him in the second, okay, what's going on there? But you have to be aware of that to know that. I'm not sure that they care, even though the consensus board has historically told them things. I'm not sure they care. And so Bill Belichick does not think that you guys know more than him, even if Bill Belichick is not looking that you guys know more than him even if even if that's not true Bill Belichick is not looking at the athletics consensus board before I guarantee you that

no and I get it though like but but that's a problem right like they've been doing it this way for a long time um and again it's like even before the consensus boards that you can find on the internet with a quick google search like they felt comfortable in their own evaluations and you should not feel comfortable in your own evaluations that's just what that's like literally what it comes down to so at understanding that and if it's like yeah it's like one thing if you go and you reach by 10 picks on a player okay it's not the end of the world it's another thing when you're reaching by three rounds on a player like that's that's craziness again it's just it's just the patriot stuff but like that's craziness right you're just you're just asking to have it be a bust is the way

i look at it's like you really have to buck a lot of history if that's how much you're going up by that's why i mean like you're saying when it's a fourth round pick i don't really care consensus board versus whatever that means nobody thought the guy was great but when it's first round to third round second round to fifth then like okay this is a big gap um between that but i i wanted to uh ask you real just real quick um who was a player recently in the last couple of years, whatever, since you've been doing this, that you got kind of obsessed about. And then you just were completely wrong.

You're like, this guy's tape. No one sees it. I'll tell you who it was for me. Jalen Darden. I was like, dude, this guy,

he is so fun to watch. And I remember bringing him up on the show a couple of times, just being like, they should get this guy. He's so exciting. And I mean, he might be good. He got in a few games last year, but it just petered out almost immediately. There have been Vikings guys the same way. Josh Metellus is like, I don't know. He did corner reps at the senior bowl.

It looked pretty good. You know, just he's a special teamer. So who's that guy for you? Well, I mean, it's Josh Rosen. you're just looking at him and saying you you explained away all the issues you could do it so easily uh he didn't play on good teams you know ucla was not good back there um three different offensive coordinators who are who were all like man whatever but he looked good he threw the ball nicely and and it's like yeah but he looked good. He threw the ball nicely. And, and it's like, yeah, but he's such a smart guy that the arm strength is not, doesn't matter as much and the legs don't matter as much. So yeah, Josh, it's not, I'm close as Josh Rosen.

Yeah. He was, he was like, he just looked so right. Like it just looked like this is what an NFL quarterback is. His offensive line was bad. His receivers were bad and he would take a lot of hits and still come back and make plays. Yeah. I remember watching a lot of him because I was so fascinated by that draft class. And just like everything else was super right about Lamar Jackson was super wrong about Josh Rosen was somewhere in the middle on Baker Mayfield. And that's exactly what he is. Like, this is, this is, this is draft for you, but let's just say last thing for you to like, let's just say, look, look at the,

look at the NFC and tell me if anybody changed their fate, like that before you went into the draft, you thought, okay, this team is five years away in their rebuild, or this team won't compete this year or, but they did X, Y, or Z, and now I think something different about their short or long term? Maybe I'm biased, but I think the Saints did what they were supposed to do.

Now, like I said, my own evaluation of the players is not necessarily great, but the Saints needed a wide receiver and they needed a left tackle. Guess what they did with the first two picks? They got a wide receiver and a left tackle. Now, did they trade too much for those players combined with the Philly trade and then the trade up?

Yes, like 100,000%, but that's just what Mickey Loomis does. But I think they got that. They needed those two positions. If they're right about the players they picked, and again, we just went over this, like you never know, then they are a playoff team, in my opinion. Those are two, like the offensive line will be good again

and the receiving court will be good again. We're hoping that the defense doesn't regress in any way. And really, it's been four years. It's pretty solid. Five years now, maybe, of pretty solid defenses. So hopeful with that. To me, they did the right things to make a play this year. Obviously, Jameis being the key here.

Now, did I like the receiver? Do I like the tackle? Not as much. But that's just me again. I don't want to be too overconfident in my evaluations. The Eagles obviously came away with this much better by far. You know, not even looking at the draft picks that they made, you know, like on the defensive side of the ball, but just getting A.J. Brown. Because we said, well, we mocked, you know,

a receiver to the Eagles for months. And to flip a unknown, you know, 20th pick first, you know, first round receiver into a known quantity like AJ Brown is, it's a home run. So they, and then, and then you add in, okay,

they got Jordan Davis, they got Nicole Bedeen, et cetera, et cetera. Then you're, you're really excited about that team. Those are the two that pop into my mind the most. And yeah,

those two for sure. They gave themselves a chance now to be serious contenders. Again, both of them key being what do we have a quarterback on the roster? four top 60 picks going into it and i'm not sure that they really did that even though they got davante wyatt right i mean i i liked him a lot but uh you know you get a linebacker you get a receiver who was playing at a pretty low level who's more of just an athletic you know projection you know and then you trade up to do so so you sacrifice one of those picks in order to make that move. Like going into the draft, I remember saying at one point, like the Vikings have three picks in the first 155 or something,

and the Packers have four in the first 60. Like they're in a much better position here. And I just don't think that they maximize that position. So the defense should be better, unquote you take two first round defensive players um you know Wyatt and Quay Walker guys that I liked but I do agree with you with the receiver stuff and the thing that I find interesting is we looked at it and said, okay, yes, they lost Marquez Valdez-Gantling, but you know the other guy they lost is Devontae Adams. And that guy did everything on that offense in terms of how they ran the system through him. Now, obviously the key piece is Aaron Rodgers for sure,

but schematically everything ran through Devontae Adams based on alignment, based on the routes he was running, all that stuff. You didn't go and get – you didn't take a chance on a receiver like that who you said, hey, this guy wins at the intermediate parts of the field. Now, obviously, once we get later in the draft, those receivers don't exist quite as much. But then you said you took – you traded off for Christian Watson. And then I think in the third or fourth round, you took Romeo Dubs from Nevada. And the thing with those two is they're very similar.

Outside receivers, you know, didn't play in the slot very much in college. Outside receivers with a vertical route tree. For them to take two of those guys tells me something that I don't see. Again, I think you need to go and you needed to find a route runner. And again, you weren't in the first round, but there are still some route runners out there. So I was surprised that they went and took two post receivers, two vertical outside receivers when, yes, you lost MVS like, that's not the biggest piece of the puzzle here.

Like, you can probably go find some speed outside receivers to complement your intermediate receiver. But if you don't have the intermediate receiver, like, that's read one. Like, that's your first read in the offense. So that was confusing to me. I think, you know, Christian Watson has a chance to maybe be that player, but, like, the tape didn't really show anything. He was kind of just bullying FCS kids for a year or so.

That, to me, was the more confusing thing. We knew they needed receivers. They did go and take two receivers. One was late in the – sorry, early in the second round. So, okay, that's kind of close to the first round, but like the style of receiver didn't make any sense to me. Yeah, I thought that Sky Moore would be their guy because of that, like put them in the slot,

get them the football, run quick routes. And it just wasn't. They thought they needed something very different. And of course the Vikings trading with that pick will be potentially haunting for them forever. I'm sure that Vikings fans, as soon as it happened, thought, OK, well, that guy's going for 100 catches and 1,500 yards immediately. But I don't know about that pick as far as the fit. So, OK, well, who's going to win the Super Bowl now? Did your opinion change?

New Orleans? OK, yeah, I know that's going to win the Super Bowl now? Did your opinion change? New Orleans? Okay, yeah. I know that's your team. No. No, I'm going to stick on this that I've been saying the whole – since free agency started. Let me guess. Wait, wait.

Can I guess? Can I guess? Let me guess. Yeah, go ahead. Let me guess. You're going to say the Chargers. Is that obvious? They did everything right. They did everything right.

They did everything right. And they have this player at quarterback who I think has a chance to be one of the all-time greats. So to me, it's like, to me, this is a team that like that the quarterback had nothing to do with them not being in the playoffs. The defense was horrific, new system. But besides them being second year in the system,

they went out and got good fricking players on that side of the ball. A lot of people had issues with them not throwing the ball down the field as much with a guy like Justin Herbert. They could have went speed receiver, but they said and said, okay, hold on. We're going to bolster the right side of our offensive line with the guard Zion Johnson from Boston College because we need to protect him first so we can take those shots down the field. I just absolutely love what they've done since the season ended.

I think as long as Storm Norton's a right tackle, you're all set. But, no, I completely agree with you. Just the way that you set it up is like, well, this is a team with an elite talent who's on a rookie contract, and that is just the golden ticket. And they did all the right things as far as spending money to fix their problems. I mean, that was my pick after free agency too. And I thought, I figured that we were probably seeing the same thing. So, um, sorry, go ahead. I was going to say just to finish off, like they could have done because of their great free agency, they literally could have done

anything in the draft. And I would have still said that, right. If they would have taken the receiver, I would have been cool. If they would have taken a tackle, I would have been cool. They ended up taking a guard, like literally anywhere. They could have taken a three tech. I would have been cool with that. Could have taken a linebacker. I would have been cool with that. They wouldn't have changed anything for me.

Yeah. I mean, and you know, what's funny about the draft is that we just wrap our minds around it and we assume that it changed everything, but usually it kind of doesn't. Yeah. Right. I mean, isn't that always the funny thing? Vegas win titles don't change like,

like pretty in post draft. So I think that tells you something. Right. I think there was maybe one player who really changed his team's fate last year, Jamar chase. And that was about it from last year's draft. So Mac Jones,

obviously like if they had played Jared Stidham, it would have been a lot worse, but you know, we'll see on that one. Seth Galina at PFF underscore Seth. You're still podcasting without Deontay Lee, right? They letting you do that? No, you're done?

You're just not podcasting? Deontay left. Oh, yeah. Talk about drivers and passengers. My gosh. I know, right? We're figuring out something else for me to do on a solo basis. It might not be a podcast, but I'm excited about it. And you'll see it'll happen soon.

Okay, good. Well, I consider you to be a rising PFF star. So I will look forward to what is next. I just wasn't sure. Usually it's like, oh, listen to this podcast, whatever. But since the best player on your team left, then, you know, you're out. So anyway, you can't tell me with that because I agree with you. Right, right, right. Yeah. And good for Deontay. He went to the athletic and he's doing great stuff now there.

So anyway, we'll follow him at PFF underscore Seth. You're always a great guest. And I love the philosophical breakdown of the draft. Thank you so much for your time. And we'll do it again soon, man. This is great. Anytime,

buddy.