Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - PFF's Trevor Sikkema deep dives into the Vikings' opener vs. the Bucs

Episode Date: May 17, 2023

Matthew Coller gets together with former Bucs beat reporter and current PFF host Trevor Sikkema to talk about whether the Vikings should be taking Tampa Bay seriously as a Week 1 opponent and whether they should be concerned about matchups. They talk about the Bucs being a team in transition and how they still have a lot of parts from their Super Bowl. Plus, would you rather have two random titles or many years of being competitive without a title? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Purple Insider is presented by Oakley. Express yourself, build a look that's made for you. When you wear Oakley, there really is more than meets the eye. Try it for yourself. Oakley is not only the best looking, but the best quality. So head on over to oakley.com for more information today. Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here and joining me on the show, I believe first appearance on the show, that's a mistake on my part, Tampa Bay Trey, Trevor Sikama, Pro Football Focus,

and former Tampa Bay Buccaneers beat reporter. And guess what, Tampa Bay Trey? We have Vikings and Bings and bucks number one on the schedule what is going on man that's what we're going to talk about no i appreciate you having me on the show we've followed each other on social media for forever i feel like i've interacted with you so many times you saying oh on the show for the first time i'm like that can't be right but i think it actually is so we're gonna have to make up for lost time here on this episode but it's good it's good to be on with you my friend well i think part of that is that you were covering the bucks before

and the vikings played the bucks in what 2017 and maybe maybe 2020 yeah i think they did i feel like there hasn't been that many match-ups between the vikings and bucks they definitely had some game that they blew against tom br, but there has not been a lot of those crossovers between the Vikings and Bucs. And so now, you know, they'll face the Bucs in week one. And I guess a good place to start that conversation is just what's going on with the Bucs. I mean, this is a team that I think there hasn't been a whole lot of reason to pay attention to this off season. You sign Baker May Mayfield that's an uninspiring signing Tom Brady isn't there anymore uh what are we feeling what are we feeling about the Bucs just another team in the league yeah I first of all

your memory serves you very well they did play in 2017 and the Vikings won that game and then they did play in 2020 and the Buccaneers won that game. So you nailed it. But no, the Bucs are, I mean, this is one of the more up and down, like over under win totals that I think you have when they come out. It feels like a lot of people are staying away from the Buccaneers over under,

I think it's about six and a half. Most places have them right around that. And you'd say, man, talent-wise in the team, you'd think just looking at it on paper, you'd go, okay, it's probably more than six wins, right? But the quarterback change, the offensive coordinator change, the offensive line changes, like there's just so much difference

between this team and last year's team that you can't even simply go, oh, okay, let's take Tom Brady off of last year's team. Then what is this year's team going to be? There's just so much change that has happened, especially in the offensive side of the ball that a lot's going to have to get proven early on. I think Tristan Wirth's moving from right tackle to left tackle is going to be a bit of an adjustment no matter what, right? And even though I think that Wirth is talented enough to figure it out at left tackle, it's going to be an adjustment period especially for him like you said opening the

season that first game that first action is going to be him against regular season speed for the first time playing left tackle you got a guy who was an interior guy in Luke Gadecki who they drafted in the second round last year now he's kicking out to right tackle probably gonna have Cody Mock the rookie that they drafted this, starting at a guard spot then because of that chain reaction. So all of a sudden, man, it's just, okay, you got a lot of changes on the offensive line. Leonard Fournette's out, which might be an addition by subtraction. But still, Rashad White, now he's the feature back.

Halfway through last season, that wasn't even going to be the case with him. They got a good receiving core. They got good tight ends. But then, of course, it's all around the quarterback position. Who is it? Baker Mayfield, Kyle Trask. They signed John Wolford as well. Maybe throw his name in the hat, but ultimately I do think it's going to be Baker Mayfield who's out there in week one, but there's just so much uncertainty. And then Dave Canales, who's the offensive coordinator now taking over for Byron left, which a lot of changes going on with Tampa Bay. And that's why they're so intriguing, especially in the early parts of the season.

Right. And I think that that is going to be very challenging for them because you go to one of the most difficult places in the NFL to play in U.S. Bank Stadium. However, you are facing a defense with the Vikings that also has undergone a ton of changes. And now Tristan Wirfs does not have to play against Zedaria Smith because he is a Cleveland Brown and the Vikings defense has changed out almost every part aside from Jordan Hicks Harrison Smith we'll see if by the time that game gets played Daniil Hunter is still on the team or not it's an entirely new secondary Marcus Davenport is here Delvin Tomlinson is gone and of

course he was a terrific run stuffer And could create some pressure And now you're talking about Dean Lowry Which I think is a pretty big downgrade So a defense that's totally in transition Versus it seems like a franchise that's totally in transition And I guess that's where Tampa Bay is interesting to me Because this could be a team that

Despite a lot of the gifted players that they have you could be talking about who are you drafting next year or you could be talking about Baker Mayfield in that division that's just not that impressive wins 10 games with them takes into the playoffs and then the Bucs are like well that wasn't supposed to happen. So I guess if, if Baker Mayfield does start, it is hard to see them being a, any sort of legitimately real contender. But I also think there's a very wide range of, he has taken teams to the playoffs before. It's not like he's just complete garbage and he's going to have good receivers and a decent setup there. But I also think that the Vikings are looking at this game

like if you can't beat Tampa Bay, then you're probably not that great anyway. Like you need to start out with a win. This is one that's looked at here as one of the easier matchups on the Vikings schedule. Yeah, and they're going to be catching the bucks you would think at the right time, right? Given all the change they have.

I know you mentioned a lot of changes on their defensive side of the football, but them getting to host the opening week, I think is important. You know, it's an easier way to start the season, no doubt. Mayfield, you know, look, I'm not going to sit here and absolve Mayfield of his blames, right? He gets picked number one overall, and there's no doubt about it. He has been a disappointment. There's no other way to say you can look at what happened in Cleveland and say all right well they didn't really do enough

for him there was enough stability and there's cases for that but outside of that rookie season when it felt like Mayfield just came in right away and almost didn't even have to think and it was just out there like playing almost backyard football it's like those are the moments that they look the best and then when he really had to settle in on what was going on with the offense. And when there was tape out there on him at each spot, whether it was Cleveland, whether it was Carolina,

whether it was Los Angeles Rams, it felt like that continued to be the case. Once there was tape on him in that current offense, those current teams, teams just figured it out. And they re whether it was high pressure from one side or dropping into a particular coverage shell or like whether it was high pressure from one side or dropping into a particular covered shell or like whatever it was he just couldn't really adjust and get comfortable when that film

was out there and beat defenses week in and week out so you know I will say like in his defense a little bit he is getting a start here in Tampa that is a quicker start than what it has been at least the last two spots right where he signed on with the Carolina Panthers late into the summer I believe it was July when he signed with the Carolina Panthers and then of course you're talking late in the season he's signing with the Los Angeles Rams so you're trying to pick it up in the middle of a week and just get to a spot where you can not look horrendous as a starter So at least when he's going to Tampa, yes, it is a quarterback competition, but I think if you ask anybody really, they expect Mayfield to be the quarterback in week one. You think that he's going to get plenty

of time with the ones you're thinking is getting plenty of time in training camp with, with the ones as well in that playbook with them designing things for Mayfield strength and whatever he's got in the tank I think they're gonna try and get the best out of him even early on in the season it's a tough ask when you're going on the road but whatever you think of Baker Mayfield whatever you think he could be I do think the Tampa is at least putting together a decent formula for that to be the result for him so ultimately I do think that Mayfield is going to be the quarterback that the Vikings end up facing in week one and two. Yeah. We'll just have to see because Baker, Baker has just been such a rollercoaster at this point in his career. We'll have to see which, which part of the rollercoaster is a peak or is it the Valley that we're getting

in week one against the Vikings? Yeah. It's funny because I mean, he played the one time that I saw the Vikings play against him. He played one of the worst games that I've seen a quarterback play at US Bank Stadium. And it was really a turning point for Odell Beckham asking to get out of Cleveland because he missed him so many times open. And it just feels like whatever was there early with Baker Mayfield that he was supposed to build on, it never really came to fruition for whatever number of reasons, because he was such an incredibly accurate passer coming out. And I remember PFF being so high on Baker Mayfield because he broke all of the metrics by being so incredibly accurate. And then it looked like that was coming to fruition and went away. And I don't know if that was injuries or what that was.

And I agree, though, with Carolina. Chaotic situation, coach that was about to be fired, brought to LA, there's some moments there. But I would not count out him being a competent quarterback still in the right situation. One of the things that is to his benefit is that he has a really good receiving core here, at least when they're healthy.

I mean, this is seems to be the kind of the story of when a team goes to the Superbowl wins, the Superbowl goes to the playoffs year after year. It's really hard for people to stay healthy. You just play so many football games. Now you've got 17 games and then some, and it just seems like Mike Evans,

Chris Godwin, they're always kind of battling something. So even though it might be a good time to play Tampa Bay because they're not gelling yet or that you don't know what you're going to get. I also think in a way it's not great to play them then with new corners because there's a good chance those receivers are actually healthy. If you face them in week five, they might both be banged up by then but I do think that we see more and more your middling quarterbacks that are just elevated so much by receiving tandems or trios or whatever it might be and I think for the Vikings if they're playing a Caleb Evans and Andrew Booth Jr. and Byron Murphy for the first time together this actually might create quite a challenge because

I feel like those guys are still I don't know if I want to say like totally elite but a still a really good pair of receivers no yeah that and that's if the Tampa's gonna win that the game that that's what they're going to have to lean on that is the strength of their team and it's not a tired narrative it's a true narrative with them Chris Godwin's one of the best receivers in the NFL when he's fully healthy Mike Evans you could say the same thing about you could run an offense through that guy you know I think that when you look at um Russell Gage last year who they bring over and they were pumped about he was dealing with injury and then honestly man the the disconnect between Brady and Byron left which was so obvious once you got a couple of weeks into the season it was just never going to get better them losing Ryan Jensen in training camp was huge because then the offensive

line, you're playing a bunch of young guys. The pillar of the middle of that, that offensive line was gone. You already lost Allie Marpet to retirement that off season. You lost Alex Kappa to free agency during that off season. So that offensive line was a mess. Brady never wanted to hang on the ball. Never wanted to, never wanted to take hits. And because of that, I don't think that Russell Gage got nearly as much production as he could have, or even what they envision him to be in this

offense. I really do think that that changes this year. I think that it's more, it's more than just Mike Evans, Chris Godwin. I think it really does become a trio like it was with those two and then Antonio Brown when he came onto the team as well they wanted it to be a three-headed passing attack now I'm not going to say that Russell Gage is as good as Antonio Brown was when he was out on the field hopefully he keeps his shirt on more than Antonio Brown did when he was out there on the field but that's that's I think the kind of mindset that they have Bruce Arians he's not the head coach anymore but he is still a oh god I can't remember his title some sort of team analyst you know like he's he's doing something

involved with the team he's just not wearing the head coach headset so a lot of what they are looking to do on the offensive and defensive side of the ball but you would think more offense because that's Arians expertise is going he's going to have a hand in that or he's going to have a say and I think they're all going to come together with that in mind Arians expertise is going, he's going to have a hand in that, or he's going to have a say. And I think they're all going to come together with that in mind. Arians likes to spread it out, man. He likes to get a lot of different people involved in the offense. And that's why I do think if they're fully healthy, the bucks are going to stretch that cornerback room of the Minnesota Vikings as thin as they possibly can, because they're going to play three wide receiver

sets and 11 personnel as much as they possibly can. they're going to say okay even if two of your corners are playing well if one of the three is not we're going to go after them if they're putting them on the outside or they're putting them in the slot we're going to rotate with these three receivers in because that's the thing about Tampa's receivers as well Gage is mostly a slot receiver but he can play on the outside. Chris Godwin and Mike Evans are completely versatile. They play in the slot. They play on the outside.

They play on the line scrimmage. They play off. There's nowhere they won't play those guys. So that is something that is definitely a strength or needs to be a strength for the Bucs if they're going to win this game is wherever Minnesota's weak link in the secondary is, they're going to go after that

they're going to rotate these receivers that way and I think that's how the game plan has to be for them and there might be multiple weak links to start the season I think that what the Vikings defense is hoping is that these guys gel together make progress throughout the year and that by mid-season they start to click and we get a sense for okay second round pick andrew bruth jr now he's taking his step forward or lewis seen is at 100 healthy and he's starting next to harrison smith but in week one that might not be the case yet and i know you have extra time to prepare but also these guys have not seen the field a lot i mean lewis seen has basically played no defensive snaps andrew bruth jr and a caleb ev, just a handful. I mean, Byron Murphy

is a decent NFL player, but it's not like he's Patrick Peterson, who was phenomenal for them last year. So there's a lot of growth. And not only that, but Brian Asamoah coming in for Eric Hendricks. So now you have a new linebacker getting his first start. And I think he only played 120 defensive snaps last year. So all these inexperienced players i am curious by the way you mentioned byron leftwich when the vikings were doing a coaching search they did not bring in byron leftwich and i was kind of confused like well that's weird because their offense had been so good you know winning the super bowl and everything else what happened there with with byron leftwich because for a minute he was the next rising star. Also, honestly, you know,

I played a lot of ESPN two K five back in the day for PS2, always use Byron left, which he was so good. So, you know, that there was a little nostalgia there, but I thought that he was in really good standing. And then last year it just seemed to crumble apart and now I don't even know did he take another job somewhere else he went from kind of like head coaching guy that was being talked about maybe next Jaguars coach to just completely off the radar it's very strange yeah I'm actually not sure if he signed on somewhere to be some sort of coach or coordinator

I didn't think that I saw anything but you know the story of Byron Lefkowitz and I was still covering the Buccaneers when they hired him. And so I caught a little bit of it, but I didn't really catch the struggle. So I wasn't in the building. I wasn't a beat reporter for the team when they really started to struggle, but man, you know, something that was always interesting, I would say that just stood out to me is I remember when Byron Leftwich got hired and when Bruce Arians was just so excited to have gotten Byron Leftwich as his offensive coordinator, they kind of told this story that was playfully joking. But now that you really think about it, you go, hold on a minute here. And he basically talked about how he had to beg Byron Leftwich to come be the coach.

Like Byron was golfing and enjoying retirement or whatever it was. And Arians kept being like, you'd be a fantastic coach. You've got to come coach. You've got to come coach. And I think Byron the whole time was like, nah, nah, I don't want to. And eventually he cracked the one year and he's like, all right, so okay, I'll come be the offensive coordinator. And I think that those two gelled really well together obviously you know during the final Jameis season there was certainly plenty of things to to work on and learn

from there but they were trying to have a potent offense and Jameis was turning the ball over too much okay and then you get Tom Brady right and so I think the Arians Brady and left which were able to work well together I think a lot of it was Arian's concepts but Brady kind of infused a little bit of what he was used to as well and I think left which became pretty good at being the play caller for that because him and Brady were in sync at the time right it goes when it's working really well that's all fine and good it's when it started to go bad it just seemed like left which couldn't adjust it's like he didn't have any other pitches it's like a picture where it's like okay like i'm gonna live and die by the fastball and if they start catching up to the fastball then i don't have anything else to

throw i mean there were multiple times it felt like throughout the season where whether it was the early first down runs or the second the second and ten runs or just different calls at the goal line, different calls in the red zone, whatever. Just all sorts of play calling things that you go, what are they doing here? They're actively hurting themselves because they just felt like this is the way the offense was supposed to go, even if it wasn't working. And there's certainly something to having a game plan, thinking that you have done a good job making the game plan and then sticking to it. But it just came, there came a point to where you went, okay, they've got to adjust here. And they never did. They stuck to a game plan and an offensive philosophy that just never worked. And I think this past year really scared teams because they

saw that in the Bucs offense. Bucs offense was bad in week four and week five, and it never got better. It never got better. And I'm not even talking about from a struggling offensive line perspective, you know, not doing great in the rugged, whatever. The play calls, the tendencies, the approaches to situational football, it didn't change and it didn't get better. And I really do think that that's kind of what scared teams away during this hiring cycle. Folks, I'm super excited to announce a new sponsor to the show

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brady will get it together they'll get rolling at some point here they come and they had a couple of wins like a comeback win at the very end of the game oh okay all right now brady's back here they go and it just never clicked in but i also think that there's some other mitigating factors as well. I mean, number one, if you don't have the offensive line, and we have seen this time and time again in Minnesota, if you don't have the offensive line, there's only so much you can do. If you can't run the football at all, how do you play action off of that? I know Brady's not a big play action quarterback,

but at least making the other team care a little bit about your running game does matter. And I think also we saw a lot of offenses that had very efficient running games last year, Tampa Bay, obviously not really one of them. And then you also have this Brady dynamic where the man is getting divorced, which I didn't need to know about, but yeah, there was a lot of reporting on, but he came back after trying to buy the dolphins.

Like it was just such a, such a very, very strange and bizarre situation. I remember saying last year, this is the most unhappy looking football player I've ever seen in my life. And I just don't know how you're supposed to work with that. When everybody's banged up, the offensive line isn't good anymore. You you can't even protect Brady by running he doesn't want to push the ball down the field I'm not sure his arm worked anymore to push it down the field and then the guy is miserable as heck anyway it just seemed like it was kind of almost in the same way what happened to the Rams last year where you win the Super Bowl you get that high from winning the Super Bowl

but eventually it kind of crumbles to a point. People get old, people get injured, people get unhappy, and it's just not the same as it once was. Yeah. No, look, it's, you know, it's one of those things where, yeah, I kind of talked about the Byron Lefkowitz side of things, but what happened in Tampa Bay last year, whatever you bring up, you're probably right. Brady did look miserable. The offensive line was absolutely hurt. The run game was bad. The receivers, they were beat up. Arians not being there and some of the situational football decisions hurt them. Leftwich not being able to adjust to the season went on, hurt them as well. So it's like a lot of people go, no, this was the culprit. No, this was the culprit. And, and honestly,

all of those things are correct. And that is why it was such a frustrating year. I think for a lot of people to watch his Tampa Bay offense, because Tom had his own issues. He didn't want to get hit when Ryan Jensen went down and when they had all those new interior offensive linemen that, you know, how it goes short assistance to the quarterback is the three tech or the nose tech beats the guy in front of him and boom there is the they're right in the quarterback's lap it takes less than uh two seconds to get to that point and so Brady had an insanely fast release last year way faster than it's not even impressive at that point it's not like oh look at his time to throw he's so efficient no no it was look at his time to throw receivers can't even get into their

routes so Brady was a problem the injuries were a problem the play calling was a problem it was a mess last year in Tampa uh yeah definitely was um other than that though still still a great time um so I did I did want to ask about the defensive side and drafting Kalijah Cansey because he's somebody that we had our eye on here. It is interesting with Kalijah Cansey. He's going to be paired with Vita Vea, who's one of the best, I think, players in the NFL, not just at his position, but one of the most scary guys.

He gets sacks now and stuffs the run. He can do just about everything. I was watching of all people, Brian Baldinger has some of the like best content for entertainment and also like his film stuff, but he's just funny in the way he does it. And he was like watching film with Kalijah can't see on the beach. Yeah. Right. Twice as big as Kalijah Cansey. I was shocked. I was like, wow, this guy is actually quite small. But I do think that as we were talking about that interior issue,

that's where the Vikings struggled so much last year. Their guards combined for more pressures allowed than any other pair of guards in the entire NFL, and that's the strength of the Tampa Bay defense. I do feel like when I look over this Tampa Bay roster on defense, I see a lot of good pieces that are still there. And when we talk about what they can be, and probably they are an average team, because that defense is still largely together.

Yeah, no, the defense, I think everybody wants to talk about what's going on up front. And they're a difficult team to project for, because Vita Bay is going to be your guy in the middle. We already know that they like Greg Gaines a lot, who they signed from the Los Angeles Rams, who's also going to replace Akeem Hicks and just be the beef in the middle. So those two guys are going to kind of, whether they're playing an odd front or an even front, those are going to be the guys who I think are going to stuff the run a lot.

I think they're going to play can't see a lot of edge. Like I really do. I don't think he's just going to be a three technique player. I think you're going to play Canty a lot at edge. Like I really do. I don't think he's just going to be a three technique player. I think they're going to put him out on the edge and when they go odd front, they'll put him at a defensive end spot. But of course, they'll surround him with some linebackers and everything to make up for the lack of length. But I don't think Canty is just going to be this three technique defensive

tackle. I think they're going to get really creative with where they move them. They're expecting a big year from Logan Hall, who they drafted very highly out of Houston last year. Joe Tryon, Sho Yinka from Washington's got to take that next step. Shaq Barrett, you're hoping you're getting him back and healthy. And at that point, it's like, all right, well, I just named a lot of guys. Yaya Diaby, they drafted this year, who I know that they're very excited about from Louisville. And there's just like a ton of guys there that they're going to throw at the pocket in a lot of different ways. It's difficult to project because you can't exactly pick out a starting four and just

go, okay, we're solid here. Instead, the Bucks truly have this seven, eight man rotation of defensive linemen that they're almost like position lists along the defensive line, who they're going to use in a lot of different ways. Devin White's still there for now. And I think that he's still going to play for them this upcoming season, even though there was like the trade demand and some cryptic Instagram messages.

I think he plays for the Buccaneers this upcoming season. Levante David's still next to him. Levante's still playing at a high level, even if he takes another step back athletically this year. And then you got an experienced secondary with Antoine Winfield Jr. Now they lost Mike Edwards, and that's going to hurt him. But I think that they're still strong enough there. They brought back Jamel Dean.

They have Carlton Davis. And so the secondary is still pretty strong for them. And the rest of the defense, I think, is definitely there. So it is a difficult group to just put a starting 11 out there on paper and just say like, no, we're good. Because that's not really how you can view Tampa's defense. They're going to be so multiple up front. They're going to have the same two linebackers, no matter what, in White and David.

And then I think there's enough experienced secondary players that they still have to still think that this secondary is going to be a pretty good one, at least one of the best in the division. Yeah. And I think if the Vikings are scared of one thing, it's all those defensive linemen that you mentioned because one of the issues they had last year was anytime teams ran games with them on the D-line, they just didn't know what to do.

I mean, an inexperienced right guard who was a rookie and a left guard who used to play tackle and then also used to play right guard and then plays left guard and just could not figure out stunts and twists and blitzes. And this sounds like this is what we're going to see a ton of. And I think also Todd Bowles is a very aggressive coach as well.

And I just think you're going to see a ton of – like these two guys, him and Brian Flores, kind of look at each other in the mirror a little bit with a lot of different things that they're going to throw at the offensive lines and this is why see the way i look at at this matchup when i first saw it and i was doing my you know who's gonna you know which games they're gonna win and whatever i just went like okay tampa bay it's gonna be a win bakers their quarterback who cares on to the next game uh

and then started to look at it closer and if the vikings don't win this game it gets very very bad for them quickly because Philadelphia is coming up Kansas City's not too far from that on their schedule it gets a little a little concerning for them quickly but the more we talk about it and much will change throughout the summer it's like I think that this is kind of a low-key bad matchup for them in some ways not in Baker Mayfield because he doesn't scare you but in the ways of the receivers on offense and the ways that they can create pressure on the defensive side. Because if there's one thing with Kirk cousins, he took a ton of hits last year. He had a lot of sacks. He had a lot of turnovers overall. And this seems like a Tampa Bay defense that has enough dudes that could cause those problems. And that's what that's how you get upset in week one. Right.

You turn the ball over three times and then you get beat by a team you thought you were way better than. Yeah. And that's why I kind of opened it up, saying people don't really know where to go with this six and a half win total for the Buccaneers, because I think a lot of people approach it like you did, where you go a bigger Mayfield or Kyle Trask is a quarterback. They're not getting more than six and a half wins I'm betting the under on that and then you look at the rest of the roster and you go this team probably shouldn't win less than six games so if you just give them one extra game then boom all of a sudden you hit the over so it is they are just such a fascinating case and I agree kind, kind of talking it out, looking at the Vikings, looking at the Vikings roster and what the matchups could be.

Tampa definitely has exploitation points with this team. And I think that that's what makes this a fun matchup to start the season. Okay, let me ask you a question. Because we've gone as far as I ever want to go with, what about the offense? What about the defense? And I'm sure as you being the former beat guy, you know how that is when you do radio appearances for the other team.

They're like, so what's going on with that defense? You're like, did you look up anyone on the defense? I don't know that you did. You just want me to tell you who's on defense. So anyway, but here's a discussion involving the Vikings and the Buccaneers that I've always found to be quite fascinating as, as former NFC central foes,

of course, of course. Yes. So the Vikings throughout their history have always been good. They have not won a super bowl. They have been great occasionally, but mostly always good. Every year you go into,

you're like, this team could win the division this team could like maybe have a chance maybe we get in let's see tampa bay has been mostly horrendous almost every single season of their existence correct god awful and then they just pop up and win a super bowl okay and then they disappear forever And then they come back and win another freaking Super Bowl. Is it better to be a fan of a team that wins one Super Bowl every two decades or a team that every single year you think your team is going to be good and has a chance?

I think it's better to be god-awful and then all of a sudden win the Super Bowl out of nowhere and then be God awful again, because I'll tell you, you know, I was talking with somebody about this not too long ago. When you have realistic high expectations,

social media and conversations about your team are so annoying. They are combative. They are like, like you just got people going after each other. You're like, no, this is what we got to do. You're an idiot. Like all this kind of stuff. And it is just so hostile when you actually have expectations.

And Tampa, when they had Brady, obviously had those. Now, winning the Super Bowl that first year they get Brady alleviated so much of that, which was going to happen over the next two years. But even like last year, man, they're struggling with Brady. And they're so like we just talked about, they're like so many different things to point to. And the conversations just became so annoying. It's like, OK, we get it. But again, when you are a fan base that has realistic high expectations, it is so draining to have those conversations on social media.

And when you're bad, it's fun. We're all sharing memes. The team's terrible. You're all making jokes. Who cares? Now, obviously, it gets annoying when you're watching the team and they just continue to lose over again. They can't figure it out. You get frustrated. But at the end of the day, you can get a little frustrated little frustrated and go yeah as the saying goes in Tampa the same old bucks and so I personally have had much more fun riding the roller coaster of that than I would have just like kind of being like middle of the pack or a little bit high enough to compete or get to an NFC championship game or whatever but that's just from my experience and that's kind of how i would answer that question well it matches up with the numbers uh there was

a study of social media looking at what fan base was the most negative and it was the vikings and i think i do think that being in the middle is a incredibly frustrating place to be because if you are terrible what you think is we're going to get the number one overall pick jamis winston's going to take us to the moon we're going to do the rookie quarterback contract thing we're going to rebuild also people love to play general manager during rebuilds and things like that if your team is stuck in the middle and the best you can do with all of your cap space is sign michael pierce there. That takes some of the shine off of the let's, let's all pretend that we're chair general managers.

I also think that when you win that one, it sustains people over a long period of time. Like the Chicago Cubs, when is the last time anyone cared really about the Cubs? Oh, when they won that world series and those people are holding their heads high, no matter what for years and years and years to come. And having so many times where this is

another thing too, is so many times where they find a way to crush the souls of their fan base. It's not that you had a bad season and then you watched other teams in the playoffs. It's that you were right there. You won 13 games last year. You are driving to potentially tie the game late and your quarterback checks down on fourth and eight and it crushes your soul again. It's like the number of body blows that this fan base has taken is really unbelievable. And I think that most of Vikings fans would trade

and say, I don't care about all those other seasons. And there's definitely a lot of people who would say, I don't even care if they win 13 games. It doesn't matter if it didn't result in getting to the Superbowl, then whatever. I think that's a little too cynical for me. The only thing I would say is, so you've had the hilarity and everything else. You, if you have a really good team, you have great players come through. And so you would have to trade your time with Randy Moss, your Justin Jefferson, your all, you know, your John Randall, you'd have to trade a lot of your all-time great

players who have been here and been legends because you would have had to been bad and they actually made you good. So that's not a case to say you'd rather have the Vikings history, but maybe there is something to every year. You get to have a lot of Sundays where you're not like wanting to jump in front of your lawnmower or something. You know what I mean? Like a lot less frustrating Sundays, a lot more that you go to work Monday happy, I guess. Right. I don't know that that elusive Super Bowl for the Vikings. It just haunts them.

You know, I'm sure you've heard this, that they have the best record of any team in history to not win a super bowl that i did not know that stat specifically but that's tough for the for the longest time actually i think that this might still be the case i think the bucks have the lowest winning percentage of any franchise of the four major American North America sports. I think, I think. And so it's one of those things where it's like, they were just so bad for so long. And then you get, honestly, you got, they got that one Superbowl and I grew up just out of Tampa. So a lot of my friends, they were Tampa sports fans as well.

And you'll just be sitting around, you know, sitting around the couch. You guys would just be like, Hey, you guys remember Simeon Rice? Hey, you guys remember Dwight Smith? Hey, you guys remember Michael Pittman? You guys remember Joe Jerevicius? And you just start like saying names from like the Super Bowl team just because everybody knows him as legend. So, again, I think your point about not being able to be a a desk chair gm definitely goes into it because there is something totally rejuvenating about your team being so bad that you have a high draft pick because when you

were in the middle that's the worst place to be shoot there are a lot of bucks fans right now who are who are i'm talking to and they're like oh you know i'm they're they're not gonna make the playoffs but like I want them to win as many games as possible I was like do you do you want to win as many games as possible because I I understand that like rooting for your team to lose is kind of lame like I get it objectively it's probably smart for the franchise but just most fans like people who don't cover the team it's not fun to root for losses especially at the beginning of the season because that's your team at the end of the day be your first overall pick and get Caleb Williams that's probably better than winning six or seven games and coming in second or third of the NFC South or whatever it is so uh it is I think the offseason part of it

is a very good aspect that you brought up there there's no question uh about the draft part and it's one of the reasons that the vikings are where they are and they have i mean with randy moss what was he the i don't know 23rd or something overall pick and justin jefferson was in the 20s or was no moss was 18 right so like but when you're drafting there they're even insanely lucky to have gotten those players right right right normally you wasn't jefferson why did you see five right in that draft yeah which never happens and with moss it was like the quote you know character concerns or whatever right dropped him but if that had not happened i don't even know what their history would look like if they didn't have those two guys uh and sort of

lucked into them but most of the time and we talk about this all the time, Vikings fans have reached a point where I think they were ready coming off of last year to tear it all down, blow it up. If they had hired Ryan Poles, he might've done the same thing in Chicago. And I think that there's a lot of people here that said, we'd rather see that we'd rather see a bad year or two. But I think the ownership ofikings understandably always wants to be in that mix and then we'll see what happens and we have seen you know the ravens win with joe flacco and so forth i don't know if you know trent dilfer won a super bowl but uh it comes up every once in a while um but it's an it's a really fun and interesting discussion i have one more thing for you guys so i uh pulled up the list of the top 10 passers in history of the tampa bay

buccaneers oh god and um there's some funny crossover here and i want to know from guys who played for the vikings so i want to know how many of the top 10 can you name off the top of your head passers in terms of yardage in the history of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers because it is a tremendous list okay so just total yardage total yardage total passing yards okay Jameis Jameis number one uh where's Tom on that list Tom is number three okay okay I was gonna say Tom Tom's gotta be top five um Brad Johnson. That's the crossover. Yep. He is the seventh leading passer in Tampa Bay Bucs history.

Okay. Vinny Testaverde. How many did he have? Number two. He had 14,000 yards and 112 interceptions. Okay. In 76 games. He had 112 picks in 76 games and somehow became a good quarterback later on

only bucks history. It's incredible. I bet Josh Freeman's on that list. There's some more crossover. The Josh Freeman game remains legendary among all Vikings fans. The one game where it was, it was actually early meme area or era where someone did the like he's throwing the ball and the next picture is the ball hitting the moon that kind of thing because he was so

inaccurate in that game so yes josh freeman is the fourth leading this franchise has super bowls people do i and your fourth leading passer is josh freeman what is uh is je Is Jeff Garcia on there? You, sir, are excellent. He is the 10th leading passer, having only played 25 games. I was going to say, like, he did not play that long, but I think he played long enough and was just like a veteran to get it, to understand it. So you're one away.

Or wait, no, two away away one is really obvious no three you need three more okay one is like the guy is kind of legendary in the nfl for something he did later and then two more are only if you grew up in the 90s uh is doug williams on there doug williams yep so legendary winning the Superbowl for Washington. Yep. Um, so this other guy is a guy that played also for the bears and I bring him up only as like random nineties quarterback also played for the Colts. I think he played for the bears. I don't think I'm going to get it. Who is this number? Number seven. Who is it? I'm not going to get it. Craig Erickson i was not gonna get craig erickson just lay i'm just like i was not gonna get that was not at all it was on the tip

of my tongue was not gonna get that one and then is the the other one's also a 90s quarterback the other one is also a 90s quarterback actually played from i think like the 70s into 1998 i believe was his last season. This guy played some of the most seasons in the history of the sport. Oh, Lord. Yeah, played for Kansas City. I mean, just this is a total 90s legend. But randomly was the backup quarterback for Chris Chandler in Atlanta in 98

at age 44. San Francisco, I think. I don't know. Steve DeBerg. The legendary. The one and only Steve DeBerg. Other notables on this list, which is just an astounding list. Steve Spurrier is on the list.

Brian Greasy is close. He's 11th. Okay. Greasy, I thought, would be somewhat close. He would have been another one of my guesses if you didn't give me the uh the the earlier days hits but uh okay greasy's on there uh you also have mike glennon at 12 sean king ryan fitzpatrick someone named jack thompson who i've never heard of steve young at number 16 yeah baby 16 record chris sim Sims, Bruce Gradkowski, Josh McCown, Josh Johnson,

Luke McCown, Tim Rattay. See, I could have named you almost all of those guys. I just knew that they weren't going to be top 10. I just knew they were the journeyman, the Gradkowskis, the Glennons, the Josh Johnsons, like Greasy, I would have got to eventually like all of those. I was wondering how high Fitzpatrick was actually just because of the stretches that he had as the spot starter. So, wow. What a, it,

it is truly incredible. It was truly incredible. The franchise of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers have had. And multiple rings. Amazing. And two rings. And two rings. Well,

let's, let's get together again before this football game actually happens. Oh, um, like four months from now. Sure. But, uh, NFL stock exchanges, your show, you, uh, are a terrific host and I've been on your show before. Really appreciate what you're doing to PFF and, uh, love to see it. So this time, uh, we'll get together before then, but this was really fun man and um i i can't wait till we're uh we're talking about actual football games in september yeah normally i do not get anywhere close to this excited until we basically hit the month of august but this is

fun man this at least piqued my interest and when i start to do my season previews i'll have a little bit of a head start so it was it was great joining you matthew have to do again soon all right follow