Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - PFF's Trevor Sikkema ranks the Vikings as 4th best in the NFL -- who's ahead of them?

Episode Date: October 17, 2024

Matthew Coller talks with PFF's Trevor Sikkema about his top 10 teams in the NFL and where the Vikings fit into that mix Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here inside the TCO Performance Center and joining me on the show, Trevor Sykema, PFF. Trevor, one of the things I like to do with a guest like yourself, so dynamic, always so on top of football, is not tell you at all what I want to talk about and then we just figure it out on the fly. So how you been? You enjoying the football? I've been great, man. It is funny. Sometimes I will do podcast appearances and be like, all right, we're going to talk about this. We're going to talk about this. And you and I, we've been on podcasts together. So it's like, okay, we're good enough friends. We'll hit record.

We'll figure out a good podcast. We'll be good to go. So I am anticipating highly. In fact, the people who are listening to this show probably know what we're going to talk about better than I do. Cause you probably put it in the title and I haven't seen the title yet. So I'm coming in more blind than the listeners are. So this should make for a great show. Well, you'll be surprised, but I did think of something beforehand because you know, you cover with PFF, the entire national football league. So here's what I want to know or what I want to do.

I want to power rank some football teams. I make fun of power rankings constantly on the show, quarterback rankings, sorry, draft rankings. Sometimes I make fun of it all, but I think we should, I think we should give it a go. And you know what I want it to be? I want it to be revealing about the Minnesota Vikings of where we would put them in a power rank. And then, you know what? We need to talk about that same power ranking if they win or if they lose this weekend against the Detroit Lions.

Okay. Okay. Okay. I like this. I like this. This is good. This is good. I didn't know where you were going to is good. This is good. I didn't

know where you were going to take us on this journey, but I don't mind the road that we're going down other than the fact that you said that you don't like draft rankings, which I'm sort of insulted, but I'll let it slide this time. I like your draft rankings. Thank you. Thank you. It's that, it's that darn Arif and his consensus rankings. They're the problem. But let's, well, let's do it this way. Then consensus rankings. They're the problem. But let's, well, let's do it this way. Then you are the guest of the show.

Who is the number one ranked team in the national football league? If we are power ranking. Ravens. I think, I think I would put the Ravens at number one. Honestly, like I knew they would only be a matter of time before we started to talk about the Detroit lions at some point,

because they have to be near the top of the list. It is such a different conversation without Hutchinson, unfortunately, like where we are now, like that is a, that he was very clear, no question about it. Front runner, defensive player of the year. And that means a lot because like, we've got a lot of really great defensive player of the year candidates that are sort of coming to light as the season is six weeks in, but Hutchinson was at the very top and he was on a fast track to win defense player of the year. And when you take that player sort of coming to light as the season is six weeks in, but Hutchinson was at the very top and he was on a fast track to win defense player of the year. And when you take that player out of a defense, it doesn't totally derail their season, but it makes it a little bit complicated. But you know, when you do look at the Baltimore Ravens, I think their offensive line, they're

kind of figuring it out along the offensive line. It was a little bit of a struggle through the first few weeks of the season, but they're playing good. Derek Henry, still Derek Henry. Lamar is actually more efficient this year than he was last year as a passer. And he won MVP last year. So that just tells you how good this team is. The defensive line's really stepping up on this team. The secondary is still kind of a work in progress, but we've seen what they can do with the passing attack using all three tight ends they have now that they're fully healthy. So I think the Ravens feel to me like the most complete team. And I think some people out there might say, well,

it's Kansas city until it's not Kansas city. But you know, if, if the Baltimore Ravens end up winning that game in Kansas city in week one, I, and what, what were we like a big toe away from that, but potentially being the case. I think that everybody would kind of be consensus about the Ravens being the number one team. So I'll even kind of take that away and say that they're my number one team right now.

And if you believe that offense is going to be more consistent and more predictive of who's going to win the Super Bowl than defense, then the Ravens have the most dangerous offense in the entire NFL other than maybe the Lions, or could be even better because their quarterback is more dynamic than Jared Goff. I thought that you were going to be a Kansas City until it's not type of dude, because I think I'm

a Kansas City until it's not type of dude. This also, if I pick Kansas City as the number two power rank, it allows me to throw the ball back to you to decide where to put the lions, where to put the Vikings. And maybe if you have anybody else ahead of the Vikings, but the thing with Kansas city is at some point with their find a way to win, even if it's not pretty type of style. Normally I think you and I as analytics fans would be like, I don't know, man, that doesn't really hold up. They won a Superbowl doing it last year. So why would I think that they can't do it this year? And I think that there's almost, you remember, I actually, I know you remember everyone out there remember when Tom Brady didn't have great stats early in his career and they won a bunch of games and people would be like, the Matt Castle could play in that offense and win the Superbowl. It's Belichick. That's how it kind of feels with Kansas city only because

it's my homes. No one ever says that, but it feels like he's playing the same sort of football where it's don't turn it over that much to protect the football long drives. Don't put too much strain on your defense. Then the defense is great. And that's kind of, and then hang until the end, get Mahomes the football, find a way to win with him with the ball in his hands. I can't say that it's going to stop working though. I still think that they could end up with like 14 wins. So I'm going to go Kansas City is the number two team in the NFL. Yeah. And that's fair. Right. And it is funny, like as this three-peat is kind of, you know, in progress here for the Kansas City Chiefs, it feels like every year as this three-peat is is kind of you know in progress here for the Kansas City Chiefs it feels like every year of the three-peat they're trying to prove that they can

do it with less right and it's not that the team it's not like that makes the team bad it's still the Kansas City Chiefs they're still good it's just there are there is less and less room for error and I think with this Chiefs team the reason why I put the Ravens up there is because they, to me, are a more complete team and especially what you can expect out of that offense. And so I do give them the advantage right now as that team in the number one spot. I'd probably put Kansas City number two, sort of out of respect of what you said. Now, I'm not going to lie. If Hutchinson didn't get hurt, I'd have the Lions at two. I would absolutely have the Detroit Lions as my number two team in the power ranking, but I'll flip them just because we don't know what the defensive line is going to be with Hutchinson up there. So I'll give Kansas City kind of that respect as the number two team. I'll get Detroit

in there as my number three. So that's kind of my top three of the NFL. Okay. So with Detroit, how much do you weigh the last two victories considering Seattle's defense kind of looks like a tire fire and Dallas is even worse. It is burning to the ground in big D. Now when I always think when you blow someone out, it's just as impressive as beating a good team close. Like it's kind of the equivalent for how we should value it if you blow out a bad team and they were on the road for those games so that's equally as impressive i don't have any negative things to say about detroit i think they're fantastic i think that they belong there and they should be back deep in the playoffs again

i only wonder about weighing what they've done schedule-wise versus the Vikings because the Vikings' wins have come against San Francisco, Houston, and Green Bay. And it was ugly in London, but tell me when it's not ugly in London. Also, every Jets game might just have 30 penalties and be the worst game we've ever watched. I think that's what's going on. So give

me the, why you pick the lions over the Vikings here. I just think it's a longevity thing really with the Viking or with the, with the lions. And it's something that we've seen over the last couple of years now building to this being the best version of their team. Yet a lot of the guys that I already had faith in are either still there or better, or a combination of those two things that mitigated a lot of the weaknesses that we had last year. So when I'm, when I'm thinking about power ranking of teams, the season is still young, seek six weeks in. And so I do take a little bit into account what we have seen in the past, because I think, you know, we say this all the time at PFF,

the larger sample sizes tell the real story. And so with the lions, I think that that's really what it comes down to the fate that I have in so many of the players that are still there or getting better or ascending. And again, like it's sort of a, if Hutchinson was healthy, I'd have no questions about this being the number two team in the NFL. And I'd have the chiefs at number three, but I don't mean for that to take away for the Vikings because I, I kind of go back and forth with the Vikings are a top five team in the NFL, no doubt. But like, I kind of go back and forth with the Vikings are a top five team in the NFL, no doubt, but like I kind of go back and forth. Do I put them at four? Do I put them at five? Because I think the Houston Texans are also right there, especially when Nico Collins comes back. I would put the

Vikings at four though, right outside of that top three, because of sort of what you said, how they have started the year, how strong they have looked, the opponents that they have played against and honestly how they are winning on both sides of the ball. I mean, it's impressive what they're doing, the Sam Donald, certainly, but being the great zone blocking team that they are, the presence that Aaron Jones is, getting the rest of the receivers involved, but even beyond that, like what Flores is doing with the defense, I'm very curious to see how long this lasts, because you mentioned a couple of minutes ago, if you say that offense is the more consistent side of the football, well, what does the Vikings defense with Flores look like?

Not just second half of the season, but more importantly, last four or five games going into the playoffs, if you're going into the playoffs, because that's sort of when you give teams enough tape to maybe figure it out if they've got the right quarterback, if they've got the right offense to be able to counter it. And it feels like right now there's not a lot of teams that can counter it. I mean,

it's the Brock pretty quote that went viral where he just goes to the Flores after the game. It's just like scheme is crazy, man. And that's, that's a quarterback who's operating in one of the most quarterback friendly offenses with a brilliant offensive play caller in Kyle Shanahan, and he's saying that.

So for me, I'm very curious to see what Flores' defense is like over the second half of the season, or really the last quarter of the season. But this team, without a doubt, is starting off on fire. So I would have them right outside of the top three, and I'd have them at number four, and then I'd have the Houston Texans at number five. Yeah, I think it's completely fair. And of course, you can't put the Texans ahead of the top three, and I'd have them at number four, and then I'd have the Houston Texans at number five. Yeah, I think it's completely fair. And of course, you can't put the Texans ahead of the Vikings because the Vikings blasted the Texans 34-7. So it was such a destruction there,

but they are a strong team as well. I think that the Lions, because of who their quarterback is, we've seen Jared Goff go to the Super Bowl. We've seen Jared Goff go to the Superbowl. We've seen Jared Goff go to the NFC championship. We've seen him repeatedly lead top five offenses. And with Sam Darnold, your priors do have to matter as part of the equation. Like if you were building a projection model, trying to figure out how good is the Vikings offense going to be based on what we know versus Jared Goff, you would have to reach at least somewhat into the past and use their histories to do that because Goff has so consistently run these top five offenses. And it has been a little bit more spotty for Sam Darnold, I think, over the last couple of weeks, especially against the New York Jets, than we usually see from Jared Goff, who is just a machine kind of year in and year out. So I think that that's fair. Defense is a little more difficult to sustain. The Vikings are maybe going to be

without Blake Cashman this week, which could be a huge L and injuries. You just never know if they lose a corner, they are not the same. And that's what we saw at the end of last year is they lost a Byron Murphy jr. And then suddenly they just could not cover the lions got lit up at the end of the season. So it's a long way to go when it comes to that, but we're in agreement. Vikings deserve the four spot. I like Houston at the five spot. Now, do you go green Bay potentially here or Amari Cooper's Buffalo bills? Do you have somebody else in mind? Are you still riding with San Francisco? There's a lot of different ways you still riding with san francisco there's a lot of different ways you could go here i think there's four teams and three of them that you mentioned

there the buccaneers are the other team that i would throw in there because i think they're a really well coached football team obviously just blasted the new orleans saints in new orleans now it's a divisional matchup and so you know sometimes you can write that stuff off but an incredible performance there and the buuccaneers beat the lions in Detroit earlier this season, 20 to 16. And that was not only when Hutchinson was healthy, it was when Hutchinson was having an unreal game and they still beat that team. So they still figured it out. So I think that, you know, from a national perspective, I agree with you. There's next in, you know, it is San Francisco, it's Buffalo,

you know, it's green Bay, but Tampa needs to be thrown in there as well as one of those next teams that are kind of right in that tier. And so I would probably, if I was, who would be six here? I probably still have the Niners six. I think I'd have, I think I'd have Tampa seven. I'd have green Bay eight. And then I'd have the bills at number nine, very intrigued at what the bills can be with Amari Cooper there now, but that is an offense that to me is still just too reliant on Josh Allen to be Superman for you at all times. And I mean, let's be honest. I understand that Tyler Bass missed field goals as well, but easy chip shot field goals for Greg Zerline, for the Green Bay Packers, a lot of penalties, or sorry, for the New York Jets and a lot of penalties in that game as well. I felt like the Jets were actually the better team in that game. And so if does this, does the outlook for the bills look different if we flip

that, if they make a field goal or anything like that. So, um, I would, I would have the bills nine. That's how I would go. I would go, um, San Francisco at number six, Tampa Bay at number seven, green Bay at number eight, and then the Buffalo bills at number nine. I do not blame you for misspeaking when it came to kickers missing in Green Bay because they have had that quite a bit as a trend so far this year. But interestingly, the Minnesota Vikings beat what is that three of our top 10 teams, San Francisco, Houston, and Green Bay. And now they have an opportunity to beat the Detroit Lions. Would you make the, if they win this game, would you make the Vikings the strongest team in the NFL? Yeah, I mean, it would be hard to disagree with that.

Like it would, again, I think that the Ravens have a really good test on Monday Night Football coming up against the Buccaneers as well. That's a road game for them. So obviously like if the Ravens look like a machine still, it would be hard for me to take them off of that top spot. But you know, the Vikings can go in and really handle business against the, uh, the Vikings can do that against the Detroit lions. It's hard to not put them at number two. If it, of course, if we don't write off the, okay, the chiefs are the chiefs kind of a thing though, the chiefs until they're not, if you sort of take that away,

because it's not like the chiefs have been really looking super solid as a team to this point, they've just been winning football games really by the skin of their teeth. It feels like if you want to take that away, I can make an argument for the Vikings if they win this game to be the number two, maybe even number one team, depending on how you look at it. But they would, they would, they would have to be right there in that conversation with a really good resume to them. And I mean, it would depend on how it looks. If it was a blowout like it was against the Texans or something, then they can't be denied.

If they went on a last-second field goal, maybe we're saying, hey, they're still dead even with the Detroit Lions. I am really curious, though. So that's a pretty good top. I'll fill out the final number because I think we got to nine. And maybe the 10th would be – I'll go Washington for the 10th team there. I really like what I'm seeing from them, Jaden Daniels, Cliff Kingsbury. I know he's missed their first half, so we'll see how that goes long term.

But I think everything about Jaden Daniels is legit. I also thought about Washington as my next – if you were going to ask me, like, okay, let's round out the top 10, I think Washington would have to be that because they're not only obviously Jaden Daniels in the story with Jaden Daniels kind of speaks for itself, but how Dan Quinn is getting this defense to play a little bit better every single week. They're kind of coming into their own with him being the defensive mind there, but also the offensive line is playing a lot better than we thought it was going to for Washington going into the season. I think that run game is a big result and how successful they have been on the ground. I know they didn't have Brian Robinson this past week, so it wasn't so great, but I think that it would probably be,

in my opinion, a three-team conversation between Washington, Chicago, and I know people are going to go crazy, but the Bengals. I'm not going to give up on the Bengals. It's been worst-case scenario. It feels like every single game for the Bengals to get to this point where their record sort of is what it is. You come out and you don't sleepwalk the New England Patriots. The team looks a lot different anyways. If you snap the ball correctly, different anyways if you just if you snap

the ball correctly or maybe if you if you try to get a couple of extra yards to take down the Ravens in overtime I think that game was right there for the taking for them and they have played better with their their biggest weaknesses of why they struggled early in the season have now been elevated the floor is higher especially along the defensive line over the last two weeks than what we have seen from them at the beginning of the season so to me i really do think that 10 spot would be a genuine argument between the washington commanders the chicago bears and the cincinnati bangles in my opinion well and the bangles also probably a pass interference call away from beating the kansas city chiefs as well well, which maybe some conspiracies were thrown around on the Internet after that one.

But no, I do agree that as far as like we keep talking about how offense will sustain, their offense is fantastic overall and it should over the long haul. But I do want to ask you kind of led into the Chicago conversation. If the one thing about Chicago that holds me back from saying that they're in the discussion, because I think the NFC North is still more of a three-team race and, hey, Chicago will be great down the road here if Caleb Williams keeps playing like this, is their schedule. I mean, they beat Jacksonville. They beat Carolina. Congratulations on those two wins. No one can take them away from you, but look at their schedule going forward.

They have all the NFC North games. There's going to be a lot to prove there. I do think that Matt Eberflus has proven himself as a good, at least defensive coach. And I also thought that there was overreaction about Shane Waldron the first couple of weeks. Like you've got to figure out what a rookie quarterback is even capable of doing before we start trying to fire somebody after a couple of games with a rookie QB I know we want everything now but that's not usually how it works but I tend to lean toward Detroit Minnesota Green Bay is kind of in the rearview mirror looking right close at them and I think chicago is still going

to end up being a step behind yeah it's look it's it'll all play out right i i didn't actually realize this until you said that and i just looked it up this is a murderer's row of a schedule that they have upcoming it's at washington it's at arizona then okay you host the new england patriots so you get a little bit right there but then it's packers vikings, you host the New England Patriots. So you get a little bit of a break there. But then it's Packers, Vikings, Lions, Niners, Vikings, Lions, Seahawks, Packers. That sucks. I mean, there is no way around it. And in fact, I just quickly looked at our PFF power rankings. That's the number two hardest schedule in the NFL remaining

behind only the Cleveland Browns. So obviously play in a great division as well and have to play the Ravens and the Steelers and the Bengals as well. So that is so tough for them. And when you look at Chicago, I do tend to agree. I think that they're off to obviously a really good start. They're taking care of business against the teams that they should take care of business. If it sort of looks the same from that offense and from Caleb in particular,

and that offensive line, maybe in particular, I could see them being still a good football team, but unfortunately for them, they just will happen to be the fourth best football team in the division because of everything that they're going to have to go through. And so for Chicago this year, to me, obviously they want to make the playoffs. They want to end the playoff drought.

They want to get there. There's no doubt about it. But even if you don't make the playoffs, I think you've got to understand that it's year two, year three of Caleb Williams that you're really supposed to put your foot on the gas. Now, I don't think they were expecting the Vikings to look as good as they did this year, especially without J.J. McCarthy. And so you maybe insert him into a more established team

next year. We know Jordan Love's not going anywhere. The Lions are probably going to have their winning window still open and then you get Hutchinson back next year. So it's not like this division is going to get any easier next year, but the Bears could be a little bit further along with some more changes along their roster. So the defense is really good. Love their secondary. They're playing better up front. I will say that, uh, still looking for a little bit more pass rush juice there, but I think Austin Jackson being in there is very intriguing. So we'll see if he could develop during the second half of the season, but that's sort of my overall thoughts on the Chicago bears where you're right. Not trying

to rain on their parade or anything, but Holy cow, this is a really tough schedule moving forward. And if they can get into the playoffs with this remaining schedule, Caleb will have had one hell of a year. Yeah, I think that they're sort of in a position where maybe Philly was when they drafted Carson Wentz that first year. Like he showed some signs and they weren't quite there yet. And then the following season, they were able to invest a lot. That's where you get the 2017.

Not to bring that up to Vikings fans, but just sort of reminds me of that first year, the guy shows signs and you can really see what's coming into the future, which I think the Vikings have to consider as they navigate this trade deadline and whether they want to make some more additions. But, you know, the guys at PFF for a very long time, the OGs, the Sam Monsons, Steve Palazzolo, Eric, George, everybody has been always so good, including yourself, at looking at franchises and decision makers, GMs, and how they plot out timelines and how they distribute their assets. And it's always been something that has influenced my coverage and my thought process and analyzing the Vikings. So when Kweisi Adafo-Mensah said that they were going to do a competitive rebuild, I was like, oh, shouldn't it be a tank? I mean, shouldn't it really, didn't you really go to the bottom? And yet they have competitively rebuilt it through getting their cap correct, moving on from a veteran quarterback, stacking up the roster with free

agents but you as a draft guy have to be uh infuriated there is no draft fix to work with for the vikings here in the future but i'm just curious about your observations about the way that quesiodopplements has taken this roster from point a to point b and it hasn't just been as it is really in detroit on hitting on draft picks. It's kind of been a different way of going about it, of hitting on a lot of free agent type players, including Sam Darnold. Yeah. Not Sam Darnold, Aaron Jones. I mean, there's two huge ones, right. That you're bringing in that, that are able to help you. I think when you looked at this team last year, I mean, a lack of a real big presence in the backfield was something that

really held this team back amidst of course,, the Kirk Cousins injury and all that. And it just obviously wasn't going to be extremely competitive for them at the second half of the season with everything there. But yeah, look, they did a really good job. And look, when we as draft analysts or people who like to project things out, when we say that it's a multi-year rebuild or that it would be advantageous for them to

tank, we know that tanking in the NFL is not totally a thing, whatever, that's a deeper conversation. But when we say that we want them to tank, it is simply because, okay, every team in the NFL wants to competitively rebuild. Every team in the NFL wants to have one down year and then, boop, oh, there we go. Now we're competitive again. Now we're going to the playoffs. It just doesn't happen like that. There are so many moving parts that often, I mean, you've got to somehow clean up your cap because normally you're coming off of a winning window, so you're probably pushing the cap a little bit far down. So you got to clean up your cap. And how do you clean up your cap? Well, it means that you can't bring as many good guys in as you

normally want to. So you really got to nail it in free agency not only with the one or two maybe big contracts that you bring in but also the other supplemental contracts that have to replace the players who are maybe over inflated that you're cutting you're getting out of there so you got to nail free agency and then when it comes to the draft you know if you're coming off of a winning window you're probably not picking super high in the draft like the Vikings they were still picking outside of the top 10 it's not like they were picking in the top five. Now you had to get more aggressive for a guy like Dallas Turner a little bit later in the draft, but it's like, it's those types of moves where everybody would love to have one bad year. And then you're all

of a sudden competitive again. It just normally doesn't work out like that. Like when I looked at the Vikings, I didn't think they were going to be a terrible football team this year, but especially with JJ McCarthy out for the season, I looked at this team and I said, yeah, all right, probably like six, seven wins because I'm also looking at Chicago being better and Green Bay being better and Detroit being who they are. So I said, yeah, six, seven wins for this team. Here we are. We're six weeks into the season.

They're already at 5-0, so they're obviously going to eclipse that number. But I think it is because you looked at this team in the step chart and there were new players and young players and there were a lot of question marks on this team and a lot of those question marks have just been answered with an emphatic yes this was the right move we made the right decision and I'll tell you this too. Coaching means so much. And Kevin O'Connell, even with the Minnesota Vikings not being number one on my power rankings when we just did those, Kevin O'Connell is number one for coach of the year right now. I mean, to me, it's just no question about it. There's other coaches that are doing a damn fine job. Don't want to take anything away from them, but with all the new,

with all the unknown, with everything they went through in the offseason, to be 5-0 at this point and have a really high outlook going forward, to me, Kevin O'Connell is the coach of the year right now. And I think that matters a lot, too, when you're talking about accelerating these rebuilds. That's a great point. And the other thing is, too, that what Brian Flores brings to the table is something really underrated. And I was having, I'll make myself sound important, a conversation with someone in the league, Trevor, the other day. Oh, yeah, big deal. And just about, but truly about coaches and how being a scheme X's and O's guy is great. And you need that. But being an evaluator as a coach might be every bit as important, if not more important,

because I look at what Brian Flores did and he went into free agency and said, give me Andrew Van Ginkle, give me Blake Cashman, who's been such a huge addition for them. And then when it came to, we were joking with him the other day, like, how hard did you push for us to find Gilmore? And he smiled and went, I pushed. And you're like, yeah, you did. Because he had familiarity with him in the past, but also identifying a guy like Ivan Pace Jr., undrafted free agent. He sees him. He's like, yes. And Josh Metellus, special teamer for his entire career.

That guy, yes, on the field. And I think that there's so much value in that in terms of their team building that we tend to separate GM gets credit for this coaches get credit for that when really it's much more melded really in every building I think but especially in this building and that you talk about what's accelerated the competitive rebuild the fact that they have a dude who is an absolutely phenomenal player evaluator as their defensive coordinator, I think has also made this work much quicker than we thought. No, there's no question about it. Player evaluation is a massive part of what makes a team, a team and a winning window even longer than just maybe

you hit a couple of good draft picks and you're really spunky one year. And it just turns that into a two, three, four year winning window. It's when you can evaluate players, because when we talk about player evaluation, I'm glad that you brought it up the way that you did with stuff on Gilmore and Metellus and I'm Pace Jr. And all those guys, we talk about the NFL draft, right? And we talk about, okay, well it's scouting for the NFL draft, but there's pro personnel scouting that is going on throughout the entire year as well. The good GMs in the NFL, I would assume all of them. I can't say for certain because I haven't seen their offices, but the good GMs have not only do they have like draft boards with rankings, they have NFL player boards of like, okay, we've identified these are players with

expiring contracts, maybe getting a little bit older or just something that we might have the chance to acquire this player. Maybe not even this year. Maybe it's next year. Maybe it's the year after that. Maybe it's a three-year window and they create this pro personnel board where you go, okay, we're going to take our scouting notes that we had whenever this player was coming out of the draft. We're going to talk with our coaches and about what scheme they want to run. What type of player that this is. Have you ever coached him before? Do you know another coach who has coached him? Whatever it is, and you create those boards.

And the best GMs in the NFL, yeah, I think that you're totally right. Every team, they sell us the same thing, right? When we go into the offseason, we have these meetings at the combine where we get the GMs and the coaches, and we get up there, and it's like, oh, you know, what's it like building the draft board? No, I'll say the same thing. Well, you know, we all get together, and we want to get the right football players for our organization. One, it ain't always that smooth.

Sometimes there's egos involved. Sometimes there's egos with the owners, the general managers, the coaches, whatever it is. And that's just the way that it is. But in a perfect world, it is exactly that. It is exactly what they are saying. It is the continuity and chemistry between the coaches and those who make the final decisions when acquiring players that gives you the ability to, like I just said, accelerate things into a winning window. Yeah. You could have a quote unquote competitive rebuild and you kind of roll your eyes when you hear that term,

because it's like, all right, buddy, everybody would like to have that. But genuinely, if you have great chemistry with your coaches and with your front office, you can do things like that. We just on the outside have to be skeptics about it because we don't see it very often because there's not a lot of times where organizations actually work that well together. And Minnesota is clearly for the first five weeks of the season, one of those organizations where they're working together really, really well. No, that is an excellent point. And Scott Pioli told me, I was doing a story about Brian Flores last year and interviewed Scott Pioli,

formerly with the Patriots, GM of the Chiefs, I believe. So we were talking about how when Flores came into the league league one of his jobs was they used to have a magnet board with every single player in the nfl's name on it every single roster and it was his job to make sure every single roster with all the magnets was lined up correctly and was 100 correct based on the transaction wire who was injured all those things so this is a guy who knows everybody, everything in the entire league and player skills and scouting reports. That's just an asset.

Very few coaches came in as a scout like he did. And I think that that's been one of their cheat codes. I want to ask you about the trade deadline. This has been the big debate here now. The Vikings made the trade to get Cam Akers, which I think will quietly help them quite a bit to not have Aaronaron jones just having all the carries all the time right but big move potential the vikings have i'm going to name

their draft picks for next year they have a first round selection and they have two fifth round selection and now i am done that is all their draft picks for next year. They have gone full F them picks. Similarly to the Los Angeles Rams. How, how much should they say F them picks? Should they trade a first round draft pick to bring more talent to this team in kind of an all in chips to the middle of the table type of move? You know,

the answer to that question is a little bit of a cop out. Cause it all kind of depends what player you're going after. But it would be very hard for me to find a player realistically in the NFL that would be worth the Vikings trading their first round pick for because it's just really, really tough to continue to go up the upper trajectory that you want as a roster. When you have that little draft picks, the health of your team is always going to come from healthy drafting, being able to hit relatively high on first round picks a little bit lower on second and third round picks, but still guys that can really help out your team. And then rounding out every single year with maybe new coaches, new philosophies, where the league is going with those core and depth players that you get in the third round. And so I know a lot of people love to talk about being active at the trade deadline. They love to talk about, okay, you know, this guy's coming here.

They love the Jersey swap edits and the graphics and all that kinds of good stuff. But it, I would be, I would be pretty shocked if there is a scenario and a player where for the Vikings specifically this year, I would say would be worth trading a first round pick for, especially because you are ahead of the curve. Like you are ahead of what a lot of people thought your rebuild was. And so next year, you, you, if you don't have a first round pick, that makes it really difficult for you to say, okay, we had last year and we were great. Just imagine what we're going to be next year. What do you mean?

Imagine you don't have a first, a second, a third or a fourth round pick. Like there's, there's no imagination. The roster will then be the roster. But if you get to go into next year and with how well the Vikings are playing and say, we still got a chance to nail a first rounder that could either make a strength even stronger for us or mitigate a weakness for us that continues to accelerate how good you are as a football team. And that's just not a 2025 move. That's a, in the future move as well, because it is still a first round pick. Uh, and with how well the Vikings are playing,

it feels like it's going to be, you know, a later first round pick as well. So I know everybody likes to talk about, all right, let's talk about like who we could go get a deadline i like the can makers move as well but i think they're done now like i think that that that to me should be it keep that first round pick and make sure you can make a pretty decent splash uh next april and make a great point that it's hard to find the guy that you're actually giving that pickup for because you're like oh yeah give up your pick for a star like well teams don't give you their stars um the name that that i've brought up that would be really ideal is jc horn from carolina a developed corner who's about to need an extension but the vikings will have that cap space next year they're

projected by over the cap it It's 76 million right now. They don't have a ton of players that are going to leave. They've got guys wrapped up in extensions. So I would do that. I would do if Tennessee got tired of Jeffrey Simmons or Dexter Lawrence and the Giants. These are, of course, elite players that teams usually don't move on from. But we also thought that about Jalen Ramsey when he was with the Jaguars, and then they trade him to the Rams and profit. So if there's a deal like that, where you could keep the guy over multiple years, then I think it would make a heck of a lot of sense. Otherwise, you know, I just want to jump in about JC because that's the one I'm thinking in my head, like, okay,

a corner kind of makes sense. Like, I guess JC is certainly the one that would make sense for them, but JC is even a little bit intriguing right now because it's almost like, I think he's very talented. I had him as one of my top players in the draft class and he was coming out, he's dealt with injury, but I think that goes into it too. Are you going to trade for a player who's missed a good chunk of his, the early part of his NFL career because of injury? Are you going to trade a first round pick for that player? And then also like when he's been out there, like he, it's not like he's been completely shut down.

So at this point in time, I don't think the Vikings would trade even, even if Carolina goes, yeah, okay, we'll give you JC horn for a first round pick. I don't think Minnesota does that. Like,

I think Minnesota probably looks at that situation and goes, okay, we'll give you a first for JC, but you got to like kick us back, like a fourth and a sixth or something like that. Like at this point, because of how much time he has missed due to injury. Sure. You might still think that, okay, let me take the risk on a really talented football player. But you, again, you have to think about it. Cause if you give up that first round pick, then it's just, what'd you say, two fifths is all they have? And at that point, it's like, you've almost got to be able to somewhat supplement your losses and say,

okay, I've got, again, if you trade a first for JC Horner and a fourth and a sixth or whatever, or even if you went a first and one of those fifths for a fourth and a sixth, well, then you're still gaining another draft pick. And you can say to yourself, okay, well, next year we can go in and we can still draft a corner with one of those just to maybe supplement if Horn gets hurt again or something like that.

To me, these are the things that you kind of got to talk about. It's not just about the highs of what JC Horn could be for you. It's the reality of what he has been as a player to this point in time. And sort of to your point, why is he available, right? Like what you have to think about that too. The superstars that are unquestioned, that are unbelievable. Those are the ones that don't hit the trade market. So you go, why are you available for one way or the other?

Sometimes context of the team can give you the answers to that, but other times there's other factors that you've got to think about. So that's just my thoughts when you bring up JC Horn. Yeah. I mean, with Horn, I guess I was thinking Carolina might just not want to invest all that money in somebody when they need to tear it all down. So if that's their reasoning, then it's a little different, but his injury history is super relevant here. Last thing for you, Trevor, I just want to know, it's been a really compelling NFL season shocker, right? The NFL compelling. That's why we're here. I just want to know your favorite thing. What has been your favorite thing to talk about? What comes up the most on your show?

What can't you talk about enough when it comes to this season so far, man, I think that I think Jaden Daniels is probably the answer. Honestly, you know, we already talked about it a little bit this season and it's just how good he has looked and how fun it is really when you look at a player like this and just all the dynamic ability that he brings. And obviously me being a draft guy, I love it as well because I was a little bit lower on Jaden than I think some other people were. I had him as QB three. I had him behind very clearly behind Drake May and Caleb Williams. I think he ended up being, uh, right around the 20, like 20th guy on my overall big board.

And, you know, he goes to number two overall, and it's a spot where I go, okay, well, if any one of them makes sense in the top five, I feel like it is Washington that makes the most sense for Jaden and just the confidence in the way that he's playing, man. It's so much fun to watch this dude play football and really rejuvenate that offense and get the most out of everybody. The play caller, the offensive line, the wide receiver. I mean, how many years have we been talking about all Terry McLaurin, get him a real quarterback, get him real court.

Now we're actually seeing it as fun. And Terry's, you know, actually on, actually on NFL red zone again, cause he's actually scoring touchdowns. So it's like that, that's like that whole storyline to me six weeks into the season has been so much fun to watch just as a draft guy, watch somebody be able to hit the ground running the way that he has.

So I think Jaden Daniels has been the most fun storyline for me this year. I agree with you. And also karma, man. Like for Dan Snyder, as soon as he's out, they draft this great young quarterback you just sometimes sports just hands it to you like yes this is a little bit of sweet justice

uh for the nfl and football for him ruining that franchise for so long uh trevor sycamore pff always welcome on the show great stuff you know what this is what i'm saying the read and react okay we're gonna power rank teams. Let's go. And there you are on top of it. Like a great NFL corner, if you will. So always, always great to have you,

man. And we will definitely do it again soon. Of course, Matthew. Appreciate it, man. Anytime.