Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - POSTGAME REACTION: JJ McCarthy hurt, Vikings survive Giants

Episode Date: December 21, 2025

Matthew Coller breaks down the Vikings' win over the Giants and what it means for JJ McCarthy's future to have another injury. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, everybody, welcome into the Purple Insider Post Game Show presented by Fanduil. Matthew Collar here, Dane Mizatani in East Rutherford, New Jersey, and the New York Giants slash Jets press box there following a football game that definitely happened between two teams. And what we will take out of it is one really good throw by Max Brosmer. an injury for J.J. McCarthy and probably not a whole lot else, but certainly the injury that happened to J.J. McCarthy to his hand is where we shall begin. Dane, how serious does it feel like J.J. McCarthy's injury is? Yeah, I mean, it's hard to say because right after the game, talking to Kevin O'Connell,

he really didn't give that much updates. And I guess that's not totally, out of the norm for Kevin O'Connell. He don't normally get the full injury breakdown other than what the injury was until the Monday after. He did say x-rays were negative, so that's good. It's not a broken hand. I thought seeing that clip that was circulating around on social media of him on the sideline, wincing in pain,

like to me, that looked like a broken hand in my very non-expert opinion. But like to hear that it was not broken, X-rays are negative, good starting baseline. But he also didn't say, yeah, we expect to have him on Christmas Day against the Lions. And, of course, a quick turnaround adds to the unknowns, less than 96 hours to kick off now. How quickly is he going to be able to turn over? That's the question. So I guess it's not a catastrophic injury in that it was announced after the game to be broken because it's not.

like I said X-rays are negative but at the same time he didn't finish the game I saw him in the locker room he had like a little glove on he was in the locker room talking to his teammates so that also would indicate good there was no past on his hand would indicate good

but he didn't finish this game and I think it probably kind of adds or points to a bigger concern which is you can't say healthy like this is now another time where he's unable to finish a game so look it's not good he was showing improvement the trajectory was upward

and then it kind of feels like you get the rug taken out from under you when you kind of watch him get stripsacked fumble score the patch down the other way and then walk to the locker room so yeah hard to know exactly if we will see j j jim mccarthy at u.s bank stadium on christmas day but i guess the biggest takeaway right now x-rays are negative take with that what you will So if he is not able to play in short order, then all we're dealing with here with J.J. McCarthy potentially. Now, if it's not that serious, he might be able to come back maybe by the Green Bay game.

Like, we don't really know right now, maybe he would try to tough it out against Detroit in just a couple of days. But even then, there's the added element to, oh, yeah, this guy just suffered a hand injury. So are we really able to evaluate, even if he does come back, what his throws look like? like, which are really the biggest question that we're always asking ourselves. So let's talk about what we can take away from this game first from J.J. McCarthy, how he played when he did play. And then we'll talk about different scenarios, what they mean and what might happen because of them. I thought that he started out the game pretty darn well. The interception to Jalen Naylor had nothing to do with him. He makes a totally fine throw.

And finally, Dane, of course, this is the six. irony, right? He's throwing to Justin Jefferson. Jefferson's making catches. He's got a sideline one. They're getting them yards after catch, which everybody is begged for for so long. And then he throws a pick six, but it's negated because Abdul Carter lined up ever so slightly offside. And that was a typical J.J. McCarthy miss, where the ball is once again, high and fast. And I know that there's been a lot of dropped passes, including the one by Jordan Addison. which was maybe a great play or maybe not by J.J. McCarthy as he's getting pressured. He just sort of throws it up.

But it finds his target. We expect Addison to catch that. That should have been a touchdown. That comes off the board. Then he's got this interception. That comes off the port. It's like, and then the scramble in for a touchdown is excellent. But I don't know that I could use any of this to move the needle in any direction.

I think we could have against Dallas, maybe a little bit against Washington. Dallas is really the big one, but for 14 throws, one strip sack, one throw that should have been picked that wasn't, one pick that shouldn't have been, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do to use this game as a bigger piece of the evaluation puzzle of J.J. McCarthy. Yeah, which is why the injury is so damaging, because I think we would have had a pretty clear depiction, was this a good game or was this a bad game, and he'd been able to finish the entire game. Like the New York Giants look like they didn't want to play football today. They look like they didn't. Oh, we lost Dane. Okay. Well, we're going to try our best to get Dane

Miss Dantani back there from New York. Oh, I see him. I see him there, but he kind of froze. Let me get Dane back in the mix. But the point being, oh, do we have Dane back? Okay, Dan, we got you back? I think so. Sorry, we're on the Giants' Wi-Fi. So, So I think if you lose me again, you lose me again, we'll audible. We're professional. So, like, I think what the bigger point, though, is that, like, you don't know if it was a good game or if it was a bad game because he didn't finish the game. Like, if I think we would have had an indication one way or the other. But you're right.

Like, the throw to Jordan Addison, I thought it was a good throw, staring down the pressure of Dexter Lawrence and then just kind of layering it up there. It's probably a hope ball, but it lands exactly where it needs to be. Jordan Aston absolutely has to catch that. So you could argue he should have had a touchdown added to his stat line with 25 yards and then taking the interception off of his stat line with the one bobbling off of Jalen Naylor's chest. And then if everything was the same, I understand like he got extremely fortunate that Abdul Carter was six inches offside. But if everything was the same outside of those two drops, the stat line looks very, very good. and we could probably point to this game and say there were some good throws he got Justin

Jefferson involved he showed his ability to kind of create outside of the pocket I still am begging for him to take better care of himself in the open field I don't know if you need a hurdle your way into the end zone and risk getting your head hit but that that is kind of how he plays and he's proven that his legs are a weapon but I do agree with you in the sense that this felt more like a roller coaster up until halftime than Dallas last week where he was just good or Washington where he was just good, albeit against a JV team that didn't look like they really wanted to be there. I don't think it's as definitive like he was awesome today, but I think we might have got that if he was able to play the entire game. One thing I will note talking to Kevin

O'Connell after the game, and this is an issue with Jay Jim Carthy too, and I get it. it's two-pronged you want a guy that's tough you want a guy that's willing to play through the injuries play through the pain but on that screenplay that is dialed up Kevin O'Connell seemed to insinuate that like J.J. McArthur did not get hurt on that play it was not like he injured his hand while getting stripped-sacked by Brian Burns it sounds like J.J. McCarthy got hurt earlier in the game maybe even before he rushed for that touchdown and then did didn't report any discomfort, and, like, I get it, your adrenaline's pumping. You probably didn't know, like, that his hand was as hurt as it was.

But that strip, the ball has to come out quickly. It's a screen pass to Justin Jefferson. It doesn't. My initial reaction in real time was, why didn't he throw in that? Kevin O'Connell hinted at, and we asked for clarification, and he didn't definitively say it, but that Jay-J McCarthy couldn't grip the ball. Like, that's why he didn't throw it. So, like, is it his fault for not reporting the injury, the discomfort,

and then that directly leading to a catastrophic play? I would argue, yes. Like, I appreciate your ability and want to to fight for your teammates, stay out there. But if you can't grip the ball and throw it, then you can't be playing quarterback at that very moment in time. So, like, his kind of passion and wanting to just be out on the field also contributed to arguably the biggest play of the game.

So big picture, I still do think it was a good game for J.J. McCarthy that showed signs of growth and what you kind of want to see. But if this is the last game he plays this season, I don't know that it will be, but now we only have two games left. I don't know how much information we've gathered or how much we can just put into a good game against the commanders that didn't look like they wanted to be out there, a good game against Dallas who has one of the worst defenses I've ever seen. and a good-ish half against the Giants who, again, certainly didn't look like they wanted to be out there. So it's just, it's part of this conversation that's ongoing with J.J. McCarthy. And I think that's why it's so frustrating to evaluate him is that, like, if he could just stay on the field, we would have way more information. We would know way more about kind of where this thing is headed.

And I think there's going to be a little bit of guesswork involved, whether he plays the final two games or not. Yeah. And that play where he gets stripsacked, there was, I saw some debate online of, well, did Brian O'Neill miss a block or something like that? And Brian O'Neill I saw explained to you guys after the game, like, no, we blocked that up exactly how it's supposed to be blocked. The ball is just supposed to come out immediately because it is a screen. So yes, you can leave someone unblocked because the ball is supposed to be gone. But that explanation actually makes more sense than when I'm watching. and going, like, why didn't he throw it? Like, why, why does the ball stick in his hands there? But that makes sense. And it's actually a repeat of exactly what happened against Atlanta, which was he hurt the ankle, he got it taped up, he didn't go into the blue tent or have it evaluated or anything, and then went back and then missed some throws and made some mistakes down

the stretch of that game that maybe at that time it would have been Carson Wentz could have come in and given them a chance to win that football game. and instead he decided to stay in the game. If he did that again here, that is pushing it probably too far to be like, hey, I'm going to be tough and I'm going to try to fight through this. But I'm sure in the moment when the adrenaline's going, maybe you're not sure, like, how bad is it really? Can I keep making throws?

Can I keep making plays? But the problem is what we get to next, which is what you started to talk about there, which is if this is it for J.J. McCarthy season, because he can't get his hand back to close enough to throw any more footballs, or if by some scenario, the Green Bay Packers are already set in the playoffs, and then they decide, hey, we're not going to play any starters. We have gotten so little information about J.J. McCarthy in this entire season. I mean, when we look at, think about how long he has been a Minnesota Viking. This was their 32nd game since drafting J.J. McCarthy, and he has now played in nine, and it might get to 34, well, I guess

it would have been 35 games because they were in a playoff game last year. So it could be 35 games and he plays nine for the entire two-year stretch because of these injuries. And when we look at them, Dane, this is the hard part because when people say, oh, you know, he's injury prone, things like that. It's like my least favorite phrase in all of sports is injury prone because you sort of are until you're not, right? Like Joe Burrow was and then last year he wasn't and this year he is and you're like, I don't

know like this happens to all sorts of players and if you're young i mean how can we call someone injury prone when they're this young you have a hand injury that now i guess we're not sure where it happened a concussion where we're pretty sure where it happened him running into somebody we have an ankle injury that is kind of bad luck somebody falls on it we have a meniscus that may have been a problem in college but he fought through it and then you know as something you know snap there in a preseason game is pretty random but that's four injuries over such a short period of time. And now even the idea of hurting your hand bad enough to leave a game and then coming back and playing on Thursday seems like a pretty big stretch, even if we don't know

because we're not internet doctors who watch the TV and then try to guess how hurt everyone is. There are those people out there if you want to find them, but that's not us. So let's just say in this scenario that J.J. McCarthy does not play in these next two games because of this hand injury and we'll get to the rest of the game and other stuff to take away from it other injuries that happened but this to me is the biggest discussion what do we do here dane what what do you do with these nine football games where he played pretty well in some of them he played pretty bad in some of them and then he played okay in several of them i mean what what do you do with that if you guys have been wearing hats or trying different haircuts in order to cover up for your

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behind a relatively unknown commodity that J.J. McCarthy is. Now, I think I've seen enough over the past, I don't know if I've even seen enough of the past three weeks, but I think I've seen enough upside in a vacuum coupled with the idea of not wanting to trade significant draft capital to like go out and say like we need to go trade for you know mac jones was the trendy name for a while there i don't know if i want to trade a second round pick for whatever it's going to cost for for mac jones when i've seen glimpses of what jay mccarthy can be but i don't know if you can just roll forward saying he's the guy like i think that would be pretty foolish process at this point especially like we won't call him injured prone but

knowing that he's been injured a number of times so far and he seems to get injured on on pretty innocuous plays like this one might have happened just on an incomplete pass we don't know we like they don't know exactly when the injury occurred but like the point is it wasn't this huge hit or this weird non-contact injury it's just he plays football and he ends up getting hurt because of the way he plays football i think there's an argument i'm going off on a tangent very quickly but like you could argue the way he kind of failed to protect himself on the scramble that will be replayed and it was a great play by him on third down got to have it situation and he gets him in the end zone he dives across like it's a good play in a vacuum

but it's not how I want my quarterback to play I don't want my quarterback diving at first into the goal line in the middle of the second quarter because you can get injured that way. So, like, the way he plays football lends itself to some of these injuries that he's suffered. But I think the Vikings have to bring in someone. Like, I don't know what that name is. I don't know who it is. And I'm sure there, it happens in the NFL. Like, there are names that become available that you didn't know were available even in week 15, 16, 17, 18. So maybe by March we'll have a better depiction on these are the guys that are available. And I'm sure once the season ends in two weeks, We'll talk in nauseam about all these options that they have.

I need them to bring in somebody, though. Like, I think that is, that is regardless of if he comes back and he's awesome, say he plays on Christmas Day and he's awesome. And say he plays on, in week 18, and he's awesome, and he knocks the Packers out of the playoffs. They still need to bring in somebody because I just don't think, one, the sample size is big enough, and two, I don't think he's proven himself yet to be a reliable enough player,

in terms of availability that they can just bank on him as QB1. So, like, I think Jacoby Preset's under contract, so I don't think he's a good one to pick. But, like, somebody like that might make sense. Just like a veteran who can do it. Maybe, like, a veteran that can do it, that you would hope Jay J.J. McCarthy could beat out in training camp. But my takeaway from all of this season,

and just the limited sample size we have, is, like, there is going to be some level of competition for J.J. McCarthy. even more so if he can't play against the lines of the Packers. So now his updated stat line for his nine games is 6.6 yards per attempt, 11 touchdowns, 12 picks, 27 sacks in nine games, and a 71.2 quarterback rating with 174 yards rushing and four rushing touchdowns, which count the same as passing touchdowns. So, you know, they, to me, I like to mash those two together and come up with

total touchdown. So 15 total touchdowns, 11 picks, 71 quarterback rating over nine games. And that number of games has a real mixed mash of different levels of opponents, starting out with Chicago, which has turned out to be a halfway decent defense, but not really a great defense. That's for sure. Atlanta is absolutely nothing special at the end of the season. And I'm not sure that they were at the beginning of the season either. And then you have Green Bay. It's a great defense. It absolutely pummles him. Then he comes back against bad defenses and looks like an NFL quarterback.

And I thought the accumulation of these three games, including today, were NFL caliber quarterback play. Now, today, though, had those little sprinkles of being erratic. And that includes, if we just decide that we don't really know what happened on that throw until he talks about it, then it includes him not throwing a football on a screen and getting just completely, completely decked. And he's been ragged out way too many times on even positive plays. But then on sacks as well, he was sacked a couple times hard, one in the red zone earlier in this game. And we've seen an improvement inaccuracy. But I would not say that today was a super accurate game for J.J. McCarthy. And you can't wash out of your brain that he overthrew Jefferson

wide open over the middle. And it bounces off his hands and gets intercepted and take it back the other way. I mean, that, that matters to the evaluation. If we're counting, like, where is the consistency of J.J. McCarthy throwing the ball? Where last week against Dallas, I thought overall it was quite excellent with, you know, a couple of exceptions. And then now you have today that's, okay, there's a couple of really good throws in there. There's a couple of bad plays in there. And what are you supposed to make of that? To me, that's just a zero. It didn't move the needle one way or the other, I don't know how, as you mentioned, even if he does play, that you could just say, oh, you're set.

But the worst part to me about injuries in the NFL is that you cannot make progress when you are injured. And so if he does not play on Thursday, it's once again no progress, didn't play against Seattle, no progress, didn't play for five weeks, no progress. And then all the time, we're just resetting the timeline over and over and over with J.J. McCarthy, and there's all these things that still have to be improved upon and even three games wasn't near enough at the end of the year, but at least if he can play them or you were thinking play them relatively healthy, that you'd be able to say, all right, I think I've got a decent

idea because you've got the better teams. Detroit can still play and they're going to face a banged up offensive line for the Vikings. If Green Bay is playing for a playoff spot there, I mean, they're going to come in, you know, flying 110 miles an hour against the Vikings. And those would be two pretty darn good tests. Today was like, coming into this, I thought to myself, just let him get through it. And I said this, I think, on Friday. Like, let's sim to next Thursday. Let's just get past this one, turn injuries off and then, you know, carry on with the two games

that are going to give us the best evaluation or the best final impression of J.J. McCarthy. And now, if he can't play in either way, one of these two, even if it's one out of two, it still cuts in half the amount of throws. He had 14 throws today. How many did he have against Dallas? Like 20 something? How many did he have against Washington? 20 something?

I mean, the total, I just had this, the total passes, you're telling me we're supposed to take 220 attempts and say, oh yeah, like in a season, there's guys who throw 600. And we're supposed to say, oh, yeah, you know what you have. but here's my opinion, Dane, well, you're right. There needs to be a backup quarterback who could win games because there might be just the way he plays several sections of next season where you need somebody to come in and win a couple of games for you. I'm still not looking for me at other quarterbacks to be the starter unless behind

the scenes Kevin O'Connell feels like, I just can't do this. I just cannot work with this because I see. saw still this week, Dane. I wrote a little bit about this. Jeff Howell of the Athletic is putting the Vikings in the Kyler Murray conversation. He's putting the Vikings in the Daniel Jones conversation. All the insiders did not change their opinion over the last two weeks.

They've still been reporting, oh yeah, well, you know, the Vikings could be in on Daniel Jones, Mack Jones, Kyleor Murray. I haven't seen Tua because that wouldn't make any sense. But like, they're still throwing that out there. And if they decide that's where it would really come down, to if this season ended today for j j mccarthy for me that it would come down to well how does kevin o'connell feel about how much progress he can make in the off season and into next season

how coachable did he feel like he was how scared of these injuries do they feel like they are like this is now much less of a was he good this year or did he show flashes this year and now it's a bunch of other layers to the conversation that go beyond just, hey, did you like enough that you saw of him throwing the football? Yeah, and I think like that is probably where I land too. Like, I think they do need to bring in somebody, whether we want to consider that person competition or insurance. Like, it is, I guess, more semantics, but they're going to bring in somebody this

offseason. But I think I tend to, and I thought your take on this was very good. like this is your bed lie in it like you this is j jay j mccarthy like play out the string if he if he's great next year great if he's good next year and shows improvement good if he stinks next year move on but like you we don't have enough information certainly right now to move on from him and i just don't think any of those other quarterbacks i know joe burroughs the name like if joe burroughs out there like yeah i think he should be a viking's quarterback if they can make that happen.

But I don't know if Tyler Murray or Daniel Jones certainly Tua gets you any closer to the Super Bowl than Jay J.J. McCarthy does next year. So that I would probably rather just play J.J. McCarthy with me understanding that it could go poorly. I don't think we have enough information to be able to sit here and like honestly analyze what he's put on tape and say like it's going to go well next year like they're going to like if they run it back with him like he's bound to improve like

I think you could have felt stronger about that going back to what we were talking about if you turn the commander's game into a good cowboy's game and if you turn the cowboys game into a good Giants game and if you could have just got through this Giants game and then turned it into a good lion's game than Packers game. I think a five-week swing of pretty damn good play would then give you at least some confidence. Again, I don't think it would have given you all the confidence in the world to say it's going to look great next year. But certainly more than you have now. And Kevin O'Connell seemed to even hint at that after the game when asked about just like how frustrating it can be for like the growth of the quarterback to kind of have these.

these setbacks and like i believe that kevin o'connell saw the growth that that had happened over these last three weeks and probably said like kind of similar to what we're saying like now let's see this growth continue against better teams like we ran through the nfc east the way you know three game winning streak that can't be i guess just undersold just because they're out of the playoffs they've won three games in a row and i think there was a point in time where I didn't think they would win another game. And I think if you were able to kind of stack those three performances on top of each other and then play well against the Lions and the Packers,

I think Kevin O'Connell would have felt better than he feels now if J.J. McCarthy can't play again. So I think it's frustrating for everybody involved that he can't stay on the field. But yes, it does just hinder progression and growth when you can't stay on the field because it does reset the clock, maybe not all the way back to zero, but you're not able to just continue to move forward and move forward and move forward. There was the cliche that Kevin O'Connell kept using throughout the past few weeks was, I just wanted to see him stack positive plays on top of each other.

And that was talking about in a game, like he wants to see a six-yard completion and a five-yard completion and a 12-yard completion and see how the thing turns out in the end. But I think on top of stacking positive plays on top of each other, you want to see him stack positive performances on top of each other and we were seeing that and now maybe we were not now maybe it's just over and it just kind of makes me think of all the other times throughout his two years here so far where it was like okay he's he's showing some improve oh okay never mind he's he's on the shelf again and then he'd come back and you'd be like okay well it's starting to look better oh never mind he got hurt again even going back to week two

like week one was good week two was awful week three could have been better but then he got hurt like it's just like the whole thing it just feels like two steps forward four steps back three steps forward six steps back like we just don't have a clear enough depiction of what this guy is and we won't like even if he plays the final two games here missing this half of football I think matters. You didn't have a chance to continue the ascension. And honestly, like the way that things have kind of turned over the course of this season, like we'll see if he plays on Christmas Day.

But I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if tomorrow we walk in there and into TCO and it's told that he probably is not going to be ready to play on Christmas Day. It's such a quick turn, even when you're healthy, let alone when you're dealing with a right hand injury. This is not the Justin Herbert get surgery on your left hand and then be a hero by wrapping it up. It's his right hand. If it's hurt, he can't throw. So the whole thing is just, I was just sitting here in East Rutherford today, kind of shaking my head.

Like, what are we even doing? Like the whole game, after he went out, felt extremely meaningless. And it already felt a bit meaningless in the grand scheme of there's so many more questions that are probably needed to be answered this offseason. but it felt like we were getting some answers, at least about J.J. McCarthy, and then we weren't. So, I mean, it's just, it's just kind of par for the course with how it's been so far. In the best possible scenario, maybe he's ready for Christmas and then gets to play the Packers with something to play for. And maybe it was just a really painful bruise that will go down and heal.

I mean, this seems unlikely since you couldn't play a half, but you never know. that's possible. But if he tries to play through an injury on Christmas Day on his throwing hand and then he throws a couple of interceptions, flies a couple balls over people, then what do we do with that either or even if it's just like me? Like let's say it's, you know, 12 for 21 and they try to run a lot and what, you know, kind of looks like what Brosmer was doing when he came in and they end up losing the game and he goes 12 for 21 with 1228 yards. I mean, are we supposed to be like, oh, okay, no, because he was dealing with a hand injury, but also we have to evaluate the results anyway.

And then it's just, it feels like today, the evaluation, unless it just magically heals and it's fine and it just, I don't know, struck a nerve in the hand, is there a nerve you could strike that would feel like that? I don't know. But, you know, if magically heals all together, it, uh, it's, is Christmas time, a time for miracles. Maybe that happens and he's able to come back and play. And then we can move on with this and it doesn't feel like it's such a sledgehammer

to the face of everything that we were kind of looking forward to over these last three weeks. Like what Washington did was it cracked the door open ever so slightly for, oh, okay, maybe something clicked a little bit with O'Connell and JJ getting on the same page. And then he plays a legitimately very good game. against the Dallas Cowboys, where he is the reason they won the football game. And you're going, that's something we've been looking for all season or really since the day he was drafted is win games because of your quarterback.

And he does it. And then today, it's a little bit of this, a little bit of that, 14 passes. Who knows what you're even supposed to do with that? They're still running the ball a lot. They get it to Jefferson a little bit. Okay, it's a good throw here. It's a good throw there. and now we are just shutting the door on all that progress and saying good night to the season.

I mean, that to me would leave me so up in the air on J.J. McCarthy, but certainly not in a place where I was sold or convinced or anyone in the organization could say, oh, yeah, we're all set. We got our guy. We're good to go because if you look around that national football conference north, oh my gracious, what Caleb Williams did the other night coming back. against the Packers. The Packers are not going anywhere for next year. The Lions are not going anywhere for next year.

This has to be evaluated, Dane, on a different curve. And that's why it was so great to have the Lions and then the Packers, and both of them might be desperate. And it was like, at home, big time TV game on Christmas, Snoop dog's going to be there, some form of K-pop that I don't understand is going to be there. And you're like, here we go. and if that's taken away, it'll feel very much like,

hey, everything that's happened in the 2025 season is, do you want, do you want some candy? Do you want something fun? Oh, I'd love some. No, I'm going to throw it in the trash. Like, that's been all season long has just been, you want some good football that might be fun and interesting? Oh, yeah, yeah, I like that.

No, you cannot have it. Get away. Now we're starting Max Brosmer on Christmas. So if that happens, I feel like what a gut punch. But I agree with you on it needs. to be someone else. The question will be with the pressure that everyone is going to feel, and I want to talk about what this game means for Kevin O'Connell in a moment. The pressure that everyone will feel to win next year, to be leading the playoff race at this time of next year,

if you only have nine games, four injuries, and a 71 quarterback rating, it's not exactly inspiring to try to save your job based on that guy and the way that he's played and how often he's been hurt. Yeah, I mean, and there is legitimate pressure that will exist next year with everybody involved in this organization because they haven't gotten, I mean, the goal is Super Bowl, they haven't gotten anywhere close to that, but they haven't want to playoff game since this current regime, as currently constructed, has been there. So while fans will say, like, well, you know, it would be knee jerk to do anything, but just keep rolling forward. And while you and me might agree that the best path forward for the franchise in a in a franchise as a whole

would be to just find out for sure and then if he's bad probably set yourself up to take the next guy that probably i think going to cut it for for kevin o'connell and that's why i think there will be some level of like i said whether we call it competition whether we call it insurance of a guy brought in because you can't hit your wagon to somebody that you don't necessarily feel convicted in or don't know everything you feel like you need to know about. So, again, I don't want to belabor it, but we talked about it. Like, if these last two games are not Jay-J McCarthy starting, like, you're just not going to get any more information, and that's going to be something that I think is going to sit

with you throughout the off-season, or at least the early portion of the off-season, until you determine which other person will be in here with him next year. So that is where we're at right now because of what happened at East Rutherberg right behind me. What I have always said about figuring out teams and like what they really think is to watch what they do and sort of listen to what they say. I mean, sometimes what they say will point you in the right direction. But watching what they do will always point you in the right direction. And if they start being connected to all right, hey, they're going after. Daniel Jones. You wouldn't go after Daniel Jones unless you believed that you needed a starting

quarterback. You wouldn't trade for Mack Jones unless you needed a starting quarterback. Like, you're not doing these things. I mean, Kyler Murray, we think of that because he's been a top 15 quarterback before in his career. But I would even say that of these other guys, Daniel Jones will not come back to Minnesota unless he is told you're the guy. Or the same thing goes for Mac Jones. Like, They're not going to give up a draft asset unless you are bringing in a starting quarterback. If they get some, you know, routine backup like we've been talking about or Carson Wentz returns, then you know that despite all the gestures at everything that's happened this year that they are in on McCarthy. But what's really going to determine it now that we, if we don't have these last two looks is just how much they believe in what they've saw projecting forward.

if we get these last two looks and he plays extremely well and that's the last impression against these teams, I think both you and I would say, wow, I mean, fought through another injury to come back and play like that and beat the Lions or beat the Packers and in a big game that the Packers were trying and et cetera, et cetera, then wow, right? But man, now we don't even know if Jordan Love's going to play Week 18 with his concussion. Malik Willis got hurt as well. What a league it is. but let's talk about Max Brosmer in this game. He comes in and certainly doesn't have to do a whole heck of a lot. The Giants urgency was lacking, I think, when it came to trying to stop the Vikings

on that final drive. But Brosmer was moving him a little bit, gets to third and 17, drops back, and unleashes an absolute freaking dime to Justin Jefferson along the sideline. he makes a terrific diving catch, 22 yards to convert. And that, that's basically the game. The game is one right there because, and I don't want to talk, Giants post game, they got their own problems. But like, do they hate Jackson Dart?

They wouldn't even let him pass today. Like, they just, they just wanted nothing to do with Jackson Dart. I don't know what is going on over there unless Mike Kafka has been told that he gets to stick around or something or gets a nice, uh, letter of recommendation from the organization, if he tanks these last couple games because I have no idea why you wouldn't be throwing any passes with your future quarterback

but maybe they don't think he is. I don't know. But what did you make of just how Brozmer who got made fun of so much after that Seattle game was able to come in and lead a game winning drive? Yeah, I mean, look at his stat lines. 7 of 9, 52 yards. He took a sack.

I think he was on his first, it might have been on his first drop back of the second half. He takes a sack, but, It looked like what I thought it was going to look like in the first start of his career. And it also then off of that shows kind of the levels of this in the NFL. Like Max Rosamark can look like a good backup quarterback against a pretty bad team. And he can look like a guy who's never done it before against one of the elite defenses in the league. So I thought it was impressive just that he was able to kind of take what,

happened in Seattle, and then just in a way, just keep working and find a way to when his number was called today, not be overwhelmed by how spectacularly bad it went in his NFL debut. And somebody asked Justin Jefferson about that very specific thing after the game, like how was he able to bounce back from such a bad debut three weeks ago? And Justin Jefferson basically said, well, it was a Seahawks. and he's a rookie so like it was bound to look better and it did today and i thought there were probably people when they see j j mccarthy leave to go to the locker room early at half time watching at home thinking oh my god max pro's not going to do something silly and

the vikings are going to lose this game he didn't he played professional quarter like played like a professional they relied on the run a heck of a lot but when they had to have perfect pass late in the game he delivered what i would argue is one of the best throws we've seen from any viking's quarterback all season just a layered ball over the top justin jefferson obviously makes a spectacular throw but even he after the game asked about that play said that's the perfect ball he said i you know i caught it was a good catch but that's a perfect ball and that's what it was so i think what will we take away from this game for max brosmer is that maybe it's not over after it looked like it might have been in Seattle.

There's clearly something in there for him to maybe level up to be a competent backup in this league. You also just feel good for him. There are times in the NFL where like say Jason McCarthy doesn't get hurt today. Say James McCarthy plays out the rest of the season and doesn't get hurt. And then say the Vikings bring in a veteran backup next year. Like Max Rosemary may never play again. In this scenario instead, he's able to kind of write the ship,

They had a lead going into halftime, but he puts together a game-winning drive there at the end. And I guess, like, a drive that proved to be the difference. I don't know if it was under the pressure of, like, we need to. But, like, he did everything they needed to do and coupled in with the fact that he threw a really good ball. I think you can take a little bit away from this thinking that maybe down the road he's somebody that we can look at as a backup quarterback. But if he doesn't make that throw to Justin Jefferson, I don't know if they win that game. So I think Kevin O'Connell said that much after the game. He said there are a lot of plays that we're going to point to, but that play contributed to winning football as much as any play in the game.

And I would agree with that. So overall, I was more impressed than I thought I would be when I saw him start taking snaps under center coming out of the locker room and half time. I thought there was a chance that it could go bad because that's all that was in mind. And he bounced back and he did the job. He did the job of the back of quarterback and helped them win the game. Yeah. I mean, overall, it was a game managery type of nine throws where most of them were short and he's handing off to Aaron Jones a lot and Aaron Jones is hobbling his way to first downs

and slamming through at the end against the Giants defense that, you know, is one of the worst the NFL against running, so they were able to do that. But I agree with you with Max Brosmer, you never know. I mean, he could play on Friday or Thursday, but he may not. And then we don't know if he's going to get to play again ever in his NFL career. So to have that a game winning drive, although in the pro football reference wins and losses, J.J. McCarthy gets the win for this game. So you're like, okay, I mean, I guess he got them ahead earlier.

But it just sort of, that's a funny little quirk that you could. finish the game with the game winning drive, but you don't get the W in the box score. But I agree with you overall that those are the types of things. And we would get asked about McCarthy or about Bros. What is it that you guys, you nerd saw in training camp, we're like, oh, it was that. It wasn't Seattle's defense ripping his head off and beating him to death with it because they're one of the best defenses in the NFL. This was more along the speed of a game that a backup quarterback could come in, execute, look like he's in control. They weren't like scrambling or jumping off sides or whatever he was in command enough and

good for max brosber to get the win there um ryan kelly uh i feel sad i feel very sad like you and i as reporters you know we've seen a lot a lot of injuries a lot of you know players who come and go and things like that and you know we become pretty jaded about all that stuff and sort of like well there's another one and on to the next player um I my my soul is hurt for Ryan Kelly because he came back I was really worried about him coming back because you just get to a point with these head injuries where like no more you have to draw a line in the sand like this is too many and then it was well we'll put the guardian cap on him where I'm not look I'm not a scientist but I don't know if that just completely puts you

in a bubble in the NFL where guys are hitting you really hard and it happens again with him And I think that his NFL career has to be over after this. Three concussions in a single season. He's had many before, many diagnosed. I'm sure there are others that are not. And not to flip back to callus on this, but this now leaves a really big question about what they're going to do into the future at the center position, which I think we were already asking.

But if Ryan Kelly finished extremely strong and it played great and looked like he was back to health, I think we'd be saying, like, yeah, get another option, do a little better there, or Brandl maybe take some snaps during the summer at center. But like, hey, look how freaking good this guy is. You know, he's great. So bring him back, him and McCarthy, go forward, whatever. And now you're in a position where you got to be looking to the draft to use a potentially high pick on a center. Tyler Linderbaum from the Ravens is a free agent. But man, when you look at that list of free agent centers, I mean, you might have to teach Blake Brandel to do.

do it like full time for 17 games because I just don't know what any other option is. But that that was just horrible. Can you speak to that as well as other injuries that they came out of this game with? Yeah. I mean, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head with Brian Kelly. It just sucks. Like he, I think against a lot of at least, it doesn't matter what I think. It doesn't matter what you think.

Like our opinions decided to come back. and took every precaution that you can take if you decided to come back and play this violent game, got outfitted for a new helmet with the highest safety rating that you could possibly have, wore the guardian cap, even though, like, a lot of guys just don't do that because they think it looks silly. Like, he did everything he needed to do to try to make sure that this didn't happen again. And then you go watch that playback. Like, it's just pretty innocuous play. It's like a dive up the middle.

And I think that goes back to, like, what we talk about with concussions and, like, the add-up effect of them sometimes, and especially with Lyman or just car crash every time, the ball is snapped. But to see him just laid out on the ground and to see Kevin O'Connell walk off the sideline and, like, we do. Like, I think we had a pretty good idea what was going on when he didn't get up. But I think there was still, like, at least you could hold out some help. like maybe he just like tweak the knee or something like that sounds weird but like maybe it's just like a knee injury maybe it's like a sprained ankle um but then when when the announcement comes that he's being evaluated for concussion like i think everyone is impartial and unbiased as we try to be like i think if you've talked to him and he's a great guy he's a spectacular football player everyone's heart just kind of sank in that moment because you you know like if he plays again that is his choice but he should not play again like it this is this is too much this is six documented this is three in one season and you got to think about life after football at a certain point but yeah it was it was awful to see and you can tell it affected Kevin O'Connell after the game just kind of asked about it he said like you know he's been

playing great for us since he's come back he's been one of the best players on our offense since he's come back but then he said like but I don't care about like how he was playing I just care about like is he going to be okay and like we're all thinking about Ryan Kelly so everybody should be thinking about Ryan Kelly like that that that sucked and it was not a a good thing to kind of have to kind of walk in and ask about afterwards with everything that's kind of happened so far so that was that was awful I'm sure we'll talk about just the kind of the ripple effects that that can have on later shows but he obviously did not come back in the game Jordan Mason got hurt and was ruled out very quickly to not come back into the game, got carded off.

He looked pretty sad based on just body language. I don't know how serious it is. But it was a quick trip to the medical tent. It was a carded back to the locker room, and it was a quick ruling out. So will we see him again this season? I don't know. I don't want to speculate. I'm sure we'll find out more tomorrow.

Aaron Jones got dinged up and was limping like crazy after the game. and we said, like, are you, like, how are you playing? And he was like, well, I just felt bad, like, if I had to leave Xavier Scott in there as, like, the only running back. So I just decided to, like, get taped up and play. And that, I mean, that speaks to kind of who Aaron Jones is. Like, I think in a normal situation, if Jordan Mason was available, like, Aaron Jones was probably out for the game with an ankle injury.

He plays through that, and he got praised from pretty much everyone in the locker after the game. So other than that injury-wise, like, I don't know, like my mind is really just with the injury to McCarthy, the injury to get Ryan Kelly, and then obviously there were some other injuries here and there, but that's kind of where the Vikings stand here heading into this short week. Yeah, all I could say more about the Ryan Kelly thing from Kevin O'Connell's perspective is it's very hard from, you know, if you're the head coach and a grown man who's been in this league for this long, tells you, I want to play. I want to get out there. You can't keep me off the field. And he's this good. He's been a top five PFF-graded

center. Like, he's the guy we all talked about for so long. Hey, if they just had this guy and it's made an enormous difference. I think that it's not a coincidence how well J.J. McCarthy has played with a veteran center in there helping him direct things. But at the same time, I mean, the franchise, the organization O'Connell. They had to know that they were putting a guy out there in a serious position of risk in games that are not for the playoffs.

And I don't know. I don't have the right. I just need to say that, but I don't have the right, like moral, what is it supposed to be there? What's the decision supposed to be when a grown man tells you,

I'm going to go do it? But I think that after this, the league has to take the keys away and just like no more. this this can't be for ryan kelly and it's been an unbelievable career but you can't risk any anything further uh from that speaking of kevin o'connell now i don't know unless you have something to say about the defense i i just thought like the giants are a joke and this defense is good and like congrats to everybody on a great game but also like what the hell giants i mean throw the ball like what are

you doing anyway so uh but yeah look they got their reps in running the football once andrew Thomas went out, you knew it was pretty much over. Like, if they don't have their left tackle, I don't care who is, you know, if Grenard is out, but like they're not going to be able to run their offense and they're already super bad anyway. So like another great game for the defense. We've known this for a long time. They're good at football. There you have it.

And Byron Murphy gets a break, which he hasn't got all year. The ball hits their tight end right in the hands and right to Byron Murphy. And it's like, where was that at all the other weeks, you know, what happened last year? I think the last storyline here for me is, and I'll give you, we've done this every week. We've looked at fan dual odds for them to get to 6, 7, 8, 9 wins, whatever. The fan dual odds for the Vikings to win eight games is now plus 110. So it's almost even for them to get to 8 wins. I think if they're not playing J.J. McCarthy, I would drop that by quite a bit.

I think if Aaron Jones gets home and those ankles swell up like crazy, it's going to be real hard for him. I guess what? They trade for Cam Acres again or whatever. I know they can't trade, but somehow Cam Acres ends up back here. But, you know, they're now looking at, you know, who knows if Hargrave plays, Derisaw's out, Kelly's out, if Mason's out, like you're playing with half a team against two desperate NFC North behemists.

That seems like a pretty tall order. But I think, Dane, that getting to seven was very, very important for. Kevin O'Connell. Because when they were four and eight, we're sitting here going, if they lose the rest of the games, this is nightmare territory for O'Connell. And then we start talking about coaching searches, maybe, or we start talking about extreme hot seats for the future. And I think getting to this point is where, like, there's a difference between six, five,

six, and seven. And maybe it's just that all life is perception. But a seven-win season is you can go back and go, man, there was that one kickoff. There was that one drive they didn't get against Pittsburgh. There was that one, whatever it might have been, away from a decent season. And then you had to play your backup quarterback for five games or it might end up being seven games. And then it's like a redux of 2023. It feels the same.

I didn't feel like O'Connell deserved to be on any sort of hot seat after 2023. after seven wins, I still feel the same way. The team thought much harder than their opponents these last three weeks, which is what we expect from a Kevin O'Connell team. I think it matters a lot to get to this point to at least have a chance to play two more games for potentially finishing with a winning record. If they were able to get to nine and eight, that would be an accomplishment for them, even though it's like, hey, raise a banner.

It's not what they were looking for, but it is an accomplishment if they were able to turn around the end of this season. Yeah, and I think the number of wins, it's not insignificant to me, but like seven, whether it's seven, whether it was eight, whether it was six, like heading into this stretch, you played two awful teams.

Like the commanders and the giants are awful. And then you played the Cowboys who had something to play for hard and were fighting for their playoff lives and you knocked him down. I think what the Vikings showed in this stretch and what Kevin O'Connell showed by being the leader of the team during this stretch is that they are not an awful team.

Like I thought there was a time during this season where I would sit in the press box and say, like, are they the worst team in the league? But, like, they're not. Like, there are levels to this in the NFL. And I think what the Vikings proved is that, like, yes, they had a season that they will regret, a season that feels like they left a lot of meat on the bone. But they do not belong in that category at the bottom. bottom of like the jokes in the NFL and there are just joke franchises in the NFL we see it every

year it's always are generally the same teams but there like there are teams that down the stretch you're like this team like this shouldn't even be a football team this team should be relegated this team shouldn't even be in the NFL and I think there was an opportunity for the Vikings to be viewed at least nationally like as one of those teams and they're not and they won't be and they won't be because of I'm not one for moral victories like they didn't make the playoffs they have no chance at the Super Bowl like that is what it is but I like they do deserve some credit here and like Kevin O'Connell deserves some credit here and not letting this thing spiral out of control like I think the culture thing can sometimes be overplayed I think sometimes it becomes like a buzzword I think

sometimes it just becomes something we latch on to because it's an easy story when things get tough and it's like let's see the culture being tested But, like, I think what we'll probably learn when the dust settles in mid-January is that, like, that was probably a real thing that helped them through a pretty crappy time, like, where it just felt like nothing was going right. So, yeah, I feel like seven wins, like, that matters, not because of the number, not because of seven and ten necessarily to me, but, like, because you didn't let it spiral out of control. You didn't stoop to the level of the Washington commanders or the New York. giants and let them beat you like you beat them and not only did you be i mean said look the game today was terrible 16 13 it's not like the vikings dominated the giants but they were the better team today too um i think what they proved is that just like there is still a forward direction there's

still like a compass and he he knows what he's doing i didn't ever think hot seat was it was a thing but i understand like the people who jumped to those conclusions it's certainly certainly not a thing anymore, regardless of what happens in the final two games. And they just kind of closed the loop. Like, I think the Vikings are going to lose the next two games. But I thought they were going to lose the games, you know, with or without JJ McCarthy under center. I didn't care about the results in the final two games.

I just cared if we got to see JJ McCarthy play and how he was going to look. And now if we're all together on Christmas Day at US Bank Stadium, as much as I appreciate my former gopher Max Brosmer or my fellow gopher Max Brosmer, or my fellow gopher, Max Brosmer. If we're not watching Jay J.J. McCarthy, like, it does just feel like the win has been let out of the sales because to your point, what Washington did, it opened that door, that performance that he had against the commanders, opened that door to at least care about what he looks like.

So whether they win or lose, whether they finish 7 and 10 or 8 and 9 or 9 and 8, like, none of it matters. I don't get to see Jason McCarthy under center. The only other side of that discussion, and I have. have to say it because I'm me and because the Chicago Bears are where they are after tanking is the Minnesota Vikings have once again played themselves out of a good draft pick. Congratulations.

If they put up banners for every time the Minnesota Vikings played themselves out of a good draft pick going back to like Andrew Luck where they won a senseless game in Washington and they then drafted I think Matt Khalil instead, you'd have no room left. and U.S. Bank Stadium up in the rafters if you raised the banner every time you played yourself out of good draft position. And just I can't help myself because someone will be picked in the top 10 and the Vikings will be picking 17th or 16th or something and will be like, oh, you know who would have been great? That guy. And my understanding is early returns on this draft are like not super deep and really not that great at the very top. So, you know, they're moving themselves farther and

farther away. But I, if they had lost these games to teams that are just crashing and burning, firing people, playing Josh Johnson yesterday, you know, the defense for Dallas is a complete mess. And, you know, then today, if they had lost these games, then you've lost your team because you're so much better. And I pick this one to be 24 to 7. And I think like they outplayed them to the point where it would have been had they not given up a strip sack for a touchdown one real quick note before i let you go dane because every game has its implications on next off season and we are on to 2026 in our minds speaking of the dallas cowboys uh jonathan jones who works for cbs noted something that the star tribune has reported which is that brian flores is in the final year

of his contract these last i want to say i mean i don't know They were a good defense against Green Bay. I don't even know. Like the whole second half of the season. They've just been fantastic, nothing short of it. Great game against Dallas. Another great game today. Van Ginkle, once they got healthy, they've been pretty much untouchable.

And so he reported that and Ed Wurter, who covers the Cowboys and has forever said the Cowboys certainly took notice of Brian Flores. He is a free agent. And I think if Brian Flores doesn't love the direction. of the offensive side of the football that he might be willing to listen to other teams that are a Brian Flores away but have the offense from competing like the Dallas Cowboys. What is your sense after just another great defensive performance, like where things stand with him because he did not last offseason decide to sign a multi-year contract to stay here. Yeah, I mean, I don't know where his head is at in terms of does he want to stay? Does he want to

see if the grass is greener on the other side? What I will say is that, well, I think he should be at coach. I mean, that's a discussion for another time. Like, he probably won't be because of the lawsuit. He probably is not going to be somebody that they consider handing the keys to a franchise too but like if it were just off of merit like that man deserves another chance to be a head coach I digress there we'll talk more about that later when I'm sure he'll get some interviews I'm sure he'll go through some processes he deserves to be treated like the best high school quarterback out there where like everybody's recruiting you and like everybody wants a piece of it because he's that good Like, I think he could go anywhere he wanted as a defensive coordinator position open.

If Dallas is willing to pony up the money and they have a lot of it, like, then, yeah, like, maybe he, maybe he could decide to go elsewhere. I think if he leaves, it is a big gut punch for the Vikings because the defense has buoyed this team for prolonged stretches this season, but not just this season. Like for a prolonged stretch since, since Brian Flores got to Minnesota. So I don't think it's an accident that he didn't sign him a long extension last year. It does leave him options this year or this coming off season. I don't know what he's going to do. But if he, if the Vikings lose him, they have a massive, massive, massive, massive hole to fill outside of just the roster itself. Like we talk about the roster.

What are they going to do? Are they going to bring in quarterback competition? or what are they going to do at center? Like, do they need another, you know, an explosive running back? Like, do they need another person on the outside to help as a past catcher? All of those questions are going to exist. But if Brian Fulhires leaves, there's going to be a massive question on the coaching staff as well, too. So it's obviously something to follow and something we will follow very closely this offseason,

when I'm sure we'll talk a lot. I certainly wondered after he waxed very poetic. about Harrison Smith the other day. We will see. Mr. Donnie, thank you so much for your time there from East Rutherford, where you traveled all the way there to watch that football game.

And you know, I have, when it comes to Vikings games, my brain is pretty photographic when it comes to old games. You know this. Like, this happens all the time. It comes up, oh, remember that route in that game and whatever else?

I don't think so with this one. I don't know that. all like other than JJ getting hurt like what happened to that game like i don't know there was that one play the kicker the the the new kicker for the giants congratulations to him his first ever kicks will rickard of course coming through as he always does no matter the circumstances and uh that was that so daint thank you so much for your time thanks everybody for drop it by to listen and talk about this tomorrow we will have the round table as always we will get an update

from Kevin O'Connell on where J.J. McCarthy stands and the rest from a health perspective. And we will have a very quick lead-up to the Christmas Day football game against the Detroit Lions, which, you know, I've joked earlier about how callous we can be. And we don't, we have done this for so long and seen everything that we don't hope for things. It just happens. And then we talk about it. Let's, let's all hope for the ice bath for that hand to get J.J. to the, point where you know America has a game to watch between starting quarterback so thanks again Dane and we'll talk to all of you soon football football