Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Putting odds on Jefferson, Hockenson, Hunter signing extensions

Episode Date: July 7, 2023

Matthew Coller answers Vikings questions about the possibility of extensions for Justin Jefferson, TJ Hockenson and Danielle Hunter and about talking with people who don't buy into analytics. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Purple Insider is presented by Oakley. Express yourself. Build a look that's made for you. When you wear Oakley, there really is more than meets the eye. Try it for yourself. Oakley is not only the best looking, but the best quality. So head on over to oakley.com for more information today. and we continue and carry on with a week of only fan questions and you know what it's actually been a really fun week and there's been a lot of good questions

and i took a peek over the questions that came in today and you know what they're good you guys are good and i mean just thinking about how the content that you guys have created just with what's on your minds about the minnesota vikings at a completely dead and newsless time is so much more interesting than whatever we're passing for as headlines in the nfl today a lot of it is kind of can this team be this thing or will this player do this this year and then people either talk about it or write about it uh i was reading bill barnwell the other day about um ranking the weapons and which teams had the best offensive weapons in the league and he put the vikings as sixth kind of went through our rankings week and did a similar exercise. And I think that that's about right,

but it might also be a little bit on depending on how things go on the optimistic side, because if the running back tandem trio or just Alexander Madison doesn't work out as well as we think, then, you know, they might not improve in the running game. And if Jordan Addison isn't a big part of things right away,

they might not end up being sixth, even if Justin Jefferson and TJ Hawkinson still are great. But then there's also a world where you could see this team having an argument by the end of the year for having the best group of weapons in the entire NFL. So that was interesting to look at. There is good content out there still being created, but I was poking around one particular site that we sometimes mention on the show with its headlines. And one of the top headlines was that the show Undisputed is having a tough time replacing Shannon Sharp. what's going on nationally in the NFL conversation. At least we're not doing analytics on hot dog eating,

which is more of a July 4th thing. But shout out to Joey Chestnut for making it happen, not letting that event get rained out. Good for him. Let's move forward, though, and talk no more about July 4th and get into more of your questions. So let's start out with Scott here. Can the Vikings realistically finalize all three of their big outstanding contract negotiations, JJ,

Hawkinson, and Hunter with their current salary cap? If so, then what would they look like or who is out? Well, they can. Yeah, I think they can. I think they can make that work in part because with Justin Jefferson doing his contract early would move some of the money into this year, which would help them afford it right away. TJ Hawkinson is not going to be that expensive. And by that, I just mean not as expensive as a top receiver, not as expensive as a quarterback or as an edge rusher or as a left tackle that the top tight ends in the league are not even touching $20 million yet. And you can work it out, the structure of it to be able to help deal with the fact that you're going to have some other expensive contracts. Daniil Hunter, that one's a little harder because

you're going to have to pay him a lot of money right away. There's nowhere to push that money. There's nothing to make that contract much easier or a way to time it out to where it's going to be easy. But if you go back in recent past, the Vikings had multiple expensive players and Kirk Cousins on the roster at the same time. They had Harrison Smith making a lot of money, Anthony Barr, Eric Kendricks, Adam Thielen. It's not that in the NFL you can't afford anybody. It's that one, you have to make sure that you work out the salary cap hits and what you can do with them. So the moving money from signing bonus to salary and that sort of stuff. And be able to have some flexibility down the road when you do get into a win-now situation.

You want to set those things up really consummate with your timeline. I think that's very important to be able to do. Which really refers back to, guess who? The quarterback. That if the Vikings are planning on moving on from Kirk Cousins to a rookie quarterback and playing with a rookie quarterback contract, then all three of these talented gentlemen and Christian Derrissaw can all have their money and you can fit them under the cap. And even if you look at Kansas city, and this is,

it sort of feels like we've gone too far in the money ball world to the point where we're always saying, don't pay anybody. I would say don't pay running backs is a pretty wise one based on history and what has happened to a lot of running backs who have gotten a lot of money. But aside from that, if you have elite players,

you probably should pay them. Daniil Hunter is a little bit tricky because is he going to be the same version for a long time? What's the health situation? What's the projection there? And how much money does he want? Is it way more than we think he's worth? If we think he's worth 23 million does he want 29 million and then it becomes you know a little bit dicey but if they needed to extend him with a plan to try to win and that's the other thing is the timeline if their plan is to try to really go for it with a rookie quarterback contract eventually in 2025 well then are you wasting a couple of years of Daniil Hunter where you're resetting this whole thing and then going forward in two years but if you plan on going for it after this year then you want Hunter if you plan on winning the division this year then you want Hunter under a big contract

but can you make it work yeah you definitely can make it work. So long as your quarterback is not making $40 million on the salary cap. Because with Jefferson, it's not quite a quarterback contract, but it's pressing one. With Hawkinson, it's a decent amount of dollars. And with an edge rusher, it's going to be a very big contract for Daniel Hunter. It's just that if you draft well around those players and you have an inexpensive quarterback, then that sort of fills in the gap. And that's really always been the major part of the discussion is that it doesn't mean that if you have a quarterback and you pay two other guys that you have no flexibility at all, which is where the Vikings have lived for a long time. But, you know, they've still been able to sign a fairly decent amount of players. It was really always, I felt during the Kirk Cousins era, it was always that one or two more free agents that were top-type free agents

that they couldn't play in that sandbox because they just didn't have the money to make the top offers. But it was also the fringe guys where you could look at the roster and go, you know, you could really use another corner. You could really use another linebacker, really use another, I don't know, guard. Many times we said guard. And instead, you're playing Tom Compton. You're playing guys that really aren't starters in the league because you just don't have the cap space to make the best offer for somebody who would be a starter in that situation, even if they weren't elite, even if they were just decent.

And the best they did with that was Josh Klein, who played one year and then I don't know if he ever announced the retirement, but he never played again after having a couple of injuries that season. That was one of those signings that is an example of how it can help you Klein wasn't great but he was good and even good can be very very helpful as opposed to very bad which means signing guys at the bottom of the barrel putting them in over their heads in positions that they can't really handle I think maybe the nickel corner was an example of that the last couple of years. And what you end up with is major weaknesses. So you can still afford some big contracts on your roster.

But if they are going to extend Cousins next March, or if they're going to chase Kyler Murray or whatever expensive quarterback is out there who's a veteran, then it does become a lot trickier. Your question, who's the odd man out? I mean, I think that it's not Justin Jefferson. But between the other two guys, that's an interesting discussion because I think you could have a long debate. Maybe we'll have that be a show at some point about uh tj hawkinson because there is someone who is a guest of this show and i'm not going to say who because we might have this debate on the show at some point uh who doesn't agree with me on tj hawkinson and thinks that it's fine

if they let him go and or if they franchise tag him next year i don't think that i think that hawkinson can be really good for another five or six seasons in his prime. I think tight ends can play into their 30s pretty well. And looking at the way that he fit last year, what a great weapon he can be, and a security blanket for a quarterback. I think that that's a guy you want to keep long-term. But there is another argument, and maybe enough almenta buys into it that he was a rental player and you don't want to go crazy paying for a tight end when the tight end numbers are going to be pretty high eventually they're not there yet but he might ask to be the highest paid tight end in the league and then do you really want to put that much money into that position i think for a

top five tight end the answer is yes but there is another debate to say you could keep them for another year and then either talk about an extension then based on where you're at, or you could just move on, get that comp pick and try to make up the difference that way. I don't really subscribe to that type of logic. Look around the league at how few good tight ends there are. And those teams that have them tend to take advantage quite a bit. I mean, the Baltimore Ravens have not had a great passing game with their receivers, but they've had a passable passing game at times because they have a really great tight end. I'm not going to compare TJ Hawkinson to like Gronk, but I think when you have that receiving tight end who can

be a mismatch, it's really a weapon. Everyone's looking for it. Teams draft them all over the place and they rarely find them. Hunter though is the answer to who's the most likely out. Cause I still think that Hawkinson will be a guy that they try to resign. I mean, the Hunter situation is just tough because the amount of money that he likely wants is a lot to match. And there's trade value there. And the way that they handled most of the veteran players was to move on and to trade them and cut them. And he's on the fringe of that. He's not as old as an Adam Phelelan but if they project him to fade into his late 20s and early 30s well that's on the way and they could also look at it like you're overpaying when you're not in your timeline where you're going for it so it's yeah that's a tricky one i mean it might

depend on what is offered or just how much he's going to dig his heels in. In the past, he's kind of, I don't want to say folded, but he's kind of come over to the Viking side and accepted what they wanted to do with him. And that's why he's been here year after year, despite all the contract discussions every year, it seems that it keeps coming up, but it feels like this time he is playing hardball. Also feels like Kweisi Ad this time he is playing hardball also feels like quesia da fomenta is playing hardball which way is this going to go i don't really know but i think that the between those two it might be closer than you think i think the obvious answer feels like hunter because the guy's holding out but it might be closer than you think if the vikings don't really

believe in paying tjkinson long-term, and if they viewed him as just a rental for last year, then we might not see him get an extension. Or if Hawkinson just wants to bet on himself, because if he catches a hundred passes, the guy's making the top money in the entire NFL and his position and his side might say almost no matter what you offer us is not going to be good enough so let's say the vikings want to get him at 16 mil a year but he's going to look at it and

say well i can get four more a year if i catch another hundred passes this season um so it's it's a tough question between those two um but i do think with well you know you say odd man out and i guess i think like the guy not getting a deal and who's going to not be here eventually jefferson is going to be here does he get a deal though is another question uh at some point it seems to me that the vikings have to just be serious about this jefferson thing and say's what you want, and we're just going to give it all to you. And I don't know. I mean, doesn't that feel like when you're arguing with a friend or a spouse, and even though you might still think you're right, someone has to say,

okay, you're right. Let's just move on. And with Jefferson, if you try to nickel and dime him in this first negotiation, that just doesn't feel like a wise play. If you're fighting over pennies or if you're fighting over certain parts of this contract, I'm not saying they are, but he has so much power in this negotiation because he's the best player at the second most valuable position. This is not a spot where the team has a lot of negotiating power in comparison to the player. They want him to be here long-term. He doesn't have to sign today. So if you want to get it done, you're going to have to come over to his side. And these are all some kind of tests for a fairly new general manager. Are you you gonna let you know hunter go hawkinson not sign jefferson go into

next year with no contract extension that would not instill a whole heck a lot of confidence so um yeah i guess we'll see i guess we'll see but uh how many teams go into a season with this many questions about this many main players not not many. So I guess that does make us more interesting than who's the next host of Undisputed, doesn't it? All right, on to the next question from Kyle. For the Vikings, what's the cutoff of whom would be released versus who wouldn't if they bet on games? Well, that's an interesting question because the Lions and Colts released their players who bet on games? Well, that's an interesting question because the Lions and Colts released their players who bet on games. And now the Jamison Williams situation was different,

but I don't think the Lions would have released him had he been suspended for the year. I think they would have just written that out with him and brought him back. Now, when it happened with Calvin Ridley, because Calvin Ridley had 90 catches in a season. So you could say, well, that bar is pretty high if you're going to stay in a season. So you could say, well, that bar is pretty high. If you're going to stay on the team, if you were gambling, but the Kelvin Ridley situation is a little different because he was the first. So when it happened, it was big, huge controversy. This guy bet on football, get him out of here. You don't want him anywhere near you. guy bet on football get him out of here you don't want him anywhere near you he bet on football and we got we got peter rose over here playing wide receiver but then when you realize

that this was happening to numerous players around the nfl whether they were betting on football or betting in the wrong places in the case of Jamison Williams which I think is ridiculous I mean I you were doing it inside the walls but you weren't doing it on football you weren't doing anything that would affect anything involved in this game you were just doing it or in a team hotel or whatever the report was I just you know that to me should be okay let's make the rules more clear for these guys and let's never talk about this again maybe it's a two-game suspension six seems like a little much for a complete accident that didn't impact football at all uh anyhow but if you're talking about betting on your team if a

viking were to have done that i think any player whose role is not rock solid is probably still going to go. But I also think that we can look back and say maybe Atlanta overreacted to the Kelvin Ridley thing, and they should have just written it out. Because Kelvin Ridley's name is not mud for Jacksonville. He's like, oh, great. Well, they got another receiver for nothing. Awesome. Basically nothing. Awesome. Good for him. Awesome. Basically nothing. Awesome.

Good for him. Did they trade him or release him? I can't remember. They traded him, right? Did they trade him? But either way, them dumping Calvin Ridley to Jacksonville and Jacksonville getting him for a very reasonable price. Well, that, I mean, that just looks like a steal for Jacksonville because it doesn't look bad on them at all it looks like oh well this has happened to kind of a lot of players so oh well moving on with our lives and that's football that's always been football somebody does something off the field a lot of times everybody just moves on anyway if it were the vikings if it were one of their key players, of course, they're not moving on now.

They're not going to trade them. They're not going to release them or anything. They're just going to sit it out. And it might even go for players who have any chance to be part of the future to just ride it out unless they bet against the team. Now, if you bet against the team, you are a million percent gone, and I'm not sure you're ever coming back into the NFL. Probably not. It's over.

If you bet on your own team and you have to sit out a year suspension, if you are a player that they drafted this year, a player they drafted last year, but if you're a dude who is the 64th guy on the roster trying to get to 53. Oh yeah, you're out. You're out for sure. Yeah. And this has always been this way. There is a sliding scale of rules for different players and that's life when it comes to pretty much anything. I just think that after the Ridley thing, having other players come behind him with the same problem has made all of us a

little less harsh about what happened there. And they probably would be less apt to want to get away from that player. Folks, I know that all summer long, you've heard nothing but me saying Oakley sunglasses, this Oakley sunglasses that you know why that's because I wear my Oakley sunglasses just about everywhere. And I love them. This is the first summer of my life that I have actually worn sunglasses. And I realized that I probably didn't even know this, that my eyes were pretty sensitive. So now when I'm out playing golf, my swing is perfect. My putts are true. I'm making great content. No, well, but my eyes don't hurt.

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and they have not protected me the way that these Oakleys have. So I've really enjoyed them. Go over to oakley.com again for more information today. This one comes from oof dumb uh how would you convert analytic skeptical fans give me your best argument but please don't swear um well i think that what people are generally looking for and this is very general because some people like sports to kind of go nuts and paint their face and wear viking horns and go you know whatever i like

at the game and that's fine if that's your thing that's cool uh then there's other sections of fans who are looking for the kind of front office type of experiment, thought experiments and insight and analysis. The types of people who like myself would simulate through Madden seasons to play the off season or to, you know, read football outsiders. I saw the Aaron shots stepping away from football outsiders. Shout out to him as a guy who for many years was really influential with that site and all of his group of writers. Because what you're always doing is trying to

answer questions. And how do we answer those questions? A lot of times in football, if we go to the group of Jimmy Johnson and Terry Bradshaw at halftime, they're answering questions about, well, why is it happening? What's happening on the field? And they will say, well, you know, the team isn't running enough. That's what they should do. They got to run that ball and whatever. Right. And so I think there are a lot of people who don't care what's said there

that I wouldn't try to force analytics on that are just like, whatever, I'm just watching ball. Don't bother me. That's totally fine. But I think that if you are the type of person that wants to think about the sport a little bit deeper, what you want to know is, is that the right answer to the question? So if the Vikings offense is struggling, is the right answer to the question, they need to run more. And sometimes it might be, but usually it's not. And I think intuitively, a lot of us know that and want to understand, well, what is the right answer? Or does the guy have a point? So then how do we answer that question in a smarter way? Aaron Schatz actually started Football Outsiders because they were

talking about in New Englandland the patriots not winning imagine because they didn't establish the run enough and so he sought out to try to look at the numbers as deep as he could to find whether that was really true or not and well you can guess that it really wasn't at the time i think it was they needed to run more to set up the pass or something something that you know people would say a million times over 100 years of football. And so what we're trying to do with analytics is really just answer those questions in the most empirical way we can, the most evidence-based way that we can. And sometimes the analytical answers don't turn out long-term to be right, or they turn to be a lot more complicated,

or if you add one factor, then all the numbers change. I mean, we know this. If you look at how somebody performs on third and seven or longer, the numbers might come out different than how they perform on third and four and longer. Is there a huge difference? I don't know. Maybe there is. Maybe teams play different between third and four and third and seven. But how are we using those stats? What are we trying to find is a very, very difficult and fun question. So how can we use what we have at our fingertips to try to get as close to the right answer about football as possible? That's always been very exciting to me to think about, to go in search. When I ask,

as I wrote about the other day, when I ask, is the Vikings offense going to be better this year? Well, I don't know the answer because I am not a soothsayer, but I can say that I can look at a bunch of different evidence and try to come up with a conclusion. And then the fun part is finding out whether we were right or not. And so I'm looking at what offensive line improvement would mean to them, what Jordan Addison, if he's great, if he's average, if he's bad, what that would mean to their offense and all those things. So everything's analytical in a way.

I mean, even studying X's and O's and things like that is analytical in its way. So NFL teams, and I know this for a fact, they get data about how they can play differently, game plan differently, study themselves and learn about themselves. So what you're doing on the outside by looking at numbers and evidence to try to learn about football is really the same thing that the football coaches are doing. call it analytics necessarily, because I think when they think of analytics, a lot of coaches think like, are you telling me not to punt? Although if you notice, they're not punting as often. I imagine that where that came from. But if you're studying the numbers against certain coverages, you're looking at analytics basically, but you can kind of call it whatever you want. So I think we do it in all sports, whether it's anecdotal or with the numbers, analytics obviously refers to the numbers,

but if you're having a conversation about anything, if you're trying to prove that, you know, Tommy Kramer was a better quarterback than Wade Wilson in the eighties. Well, you might not have their numbers on hand. So what would you be talking about? You'd be looking for evidence.

Well, this, you know, Wilson throws a better deep ball or Tommy's more clutch or whatever, whatever it might be. And so this is just a different version of that. That's a little bit more sharp and a little less, I guess, up to interpretation. But even then it can be, it's just a little more, I guess, factual. But even then, the interpretation is part of the journey. So anyway, I don't know. Does that answer the question? I think it does. This one comes from Elysium. Not sure how to pronounce that exactly.

Seems like the analytical Brown's front office is producing meh results. Should that concern us relating to Kweisi Adafomensa? Well, I mean, it depends on what you mean by meh results, I suppose. That is an owner who seems to have forced Sean Watson on them. That really kind of changes everything. They did win a playoff game with Baker Mayfield as their quarterback, and his history has kind of shown that that took a lot to get there. Analytics, I mean, here's about every front office at this point is analytics-based in some way,

is using concepts where they're studying all sorts of different things, whether it's having a salary cap person, whether it's looking at draft value or its contracts or its free agent signings, they're all building or have already built analytical departments and so forth. I think that when you hire Kweisi Adafomensa, what you're looking for is not just somebody to hack the league and be Billy Bean. That will never happen again where some team is far ahead of the other teams and outperforms. This is also a league where you can't really do that because there's a salary cap. It's not like what Billy Bean was going for is making his team competitive despite having $100 million less to work with than the Yankees. That doesn't happen in the NFL. They all have the same amount of less to work with than the Yankees. That doesn't happen in the NFL.

They all have the same amount of money to work with, basically, depending on what kind of cash your ownership can put out. But the playing field is very even when it comes to these things. I think what you're looking for with Kweisi Adafo-Mensah is to lean into some of those things and know the right path that has been proven by what we were just talking about the analytics um some of the questions that have been answered or answered to the best of our

ability by the analytics to know those to be guided by those and make decisions based on them and not so much on on whims or on feelings about a player or something like that, but it doesn't guarantee anything. I mean, they, they went through this with money ball and the Billy bean conversation where things that people would bring up sometimes would be like, well, the A's didn't win the world series. So I don't think that that works, but the problem was that the Yankees and Red Sox just built up their own analytics departments and then had a hundred million more dollars themselves. And also the A's were over-performing. They were doing something really right. And they were over-performing from what their expectation would be based on,

you know, based on the money they spent. But, you know, so much in football comes down to just, is your quarterback good? Last year, they played most of the season with jacoby brissett and then deshaun watson was horrible so i don't know like is that analytics failing no i don't think so that's maybe that decision will fail with deshaun watson is that an analytics decision ah no that's an owner deciding he wanted deshaun Watson decision, I think, in Cleveland. And hey, you know, take a look at that Cleveland roster. Just if you get a chance, just take a look, go through the Cleveland roster. It's pretty good. It's a lot of good players on that roster that they have built. And do you guys remember Cleveland? Like what it was just a few years ago,

how few good players they had, how desolate that franchise was. It was at the complete bottom of the barrel. And now their expectations are so much higher because of the way that they've built it up. And a lot of it is some clever moves and some clever use of salary cap, clever use of draft capital, things like that. The edges are small. The edges are small, but we can't just look at one team and say, well, their analytics didn't work. So do we think Casey's aren't going to work? I don't know. The edges are small. Quarterbacks matter a lot. Also, Casey talks about one of the person people that he follows in the league as far as being influential as

Howie Roseman. That's considered an analytics sort of front office. But also some of it's not, I don't know, is draft capital analytics? Or is it just sort of common sense that maybe teams weren't handling it properly in the past? You know, I think that maybe if somebody starts going for it on fourth down at their own 35-yard line because the numbers say so then i'll

say wow this has just been a takeover uh and i think that analytics are playing huge roles in front offices for sure and and coaching staffs for sure but i also think that some of the stuff is more just more just common sense um that was being overlooked or not really looked at close enough, and that some teams were already doing smartly that isn't really analytical. So I don't know. Am I supposed to pick apart how did they do this or that or this signing or that signing with the numbers? It's really difficult to do without having them explain it to me. But we'll see about their results.

It really kind of comes down to whether deshaun watson's good if he's good their results will definitely follow but no i mean the the answer is no i mean based on i'm not basing quesadilla fomenta anything with cleveland he's got the job he's making moves we're gonna base it on that not what the other organization he came from is doing the biggest pro football contest in in Las Vegas is back again for its fifth year with 14 million in guaranteed prizes only at Circa Sports. Enter in Vegas, play from anywhere with two ways to win and no rake. Play the million pro football contest with quarterly payouts and 100% payback.

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Of course. Well, I would say this. All-time favorite football memory is pretty hard because I have been watching football for a very long time. Since like 1991, I think, was the first season that I remember. And I realize every day how long ago 1991 was. So if I started talking about that, I would probably just go on and on and on and on. And, you know, there's a lot of them just growing up and so forth. They're probably mostly the same as everybody else's who watched all the same games.

John Madden, Pat Summerall growing up, those types of things, playoffs. But for me, I think it's easier to answer about since I've been covering the team is a little easier to answer than just... I don't know about all-time favorite. I don't know if I have an all time, like clear cut. Number one, this was my favorite, uh, from growing up, but from covering this team, there's a lot, there's a lot. I mean, my first game is definitely one that was 2016. Uh, that was my first game covering at home. I didn't travel for the Titans game in 2016. So they came back home, played the Packers in week two and Sam Bradford wins the game.

The U S bank stadium. That was the first game that it opened. So nobody knew how loud that thing was going to be. And it was, it was like a Taylor Swift concert. It was nuts. It was insane. The, the, the atmosphere there was crazy. Trey Wayne's It was nuts. It was insane. The atmosphere there was crazy. Trey Waynes picks off the pass at the end. And I had just gotten the job, just moved to Minnesota. And my feeling was, wow. I mean, this is really something. This is really intense covering the NFL after all those things that happened with Teddy

Bridgewater and everything else. And then to get that win for the team was really huge. Stefan Diggs was great that night. Sam Bradford made some phenomenal throws. It was quite the event. I had mostly been covering as a reporter hockey games more than that when I was in Buffalo, more than football games because I was the pre and post game host. So I was mostly in a studio, not in the locker room and in the press box. It was a very different experience. Hockey games, unless they're in the Stanley Cup playoffs, it's not that intense in the locker room after, or even, I mean, crowds can get loud if it's a good game, but nothing like that, that I had experienced. When the Vikings went to the playoffs in 2019, a lot of fun.

Reporters got together, had dinner before the game, and I went to a couple restaurants that were great. And just covering that game in the Superdome, it's a really eerie atmosphere. You talk about noise, you talk about intensity, the way that they won the game, the locker room after. Very, very crazy, but a very fun trip just for me. And that's most of the stuff that is the best part of this job is the people that I work around. I guess we don't work with each other technically, but that I work around, uh, have become very good friends. So, you know, traveling different places with know, travel in different places with them,

covering camp with them, stuff like that. Seeing players, you know, grow from, hey, this guy was drafted, we don't know who he's going to be, and then becomes a great player. Like, that's really fun for me. There's a lot of parts that are great. So it's really hard to pin down what one favorite football memory is. And a lot of times it's the stuff that we sort of laugh at,

you know, the realizing, I will never forget this. We were doing, I think it was Courtney Cronin and myself doing a podcast after the Minneapolis Miracle Game. And it wasn't like in the stadiums, the next day or two days later. And I think we were doing it over a Zoom call before Zoom was a big thing or over things that, you know, we've joked around about for years. So stuff like that is probably things that I'll take with me more than, hey, I remember when this guy caught this pass or something like that. So, all right, from Gary,

with Hunter threatening to be a training camp holdout, when, who and when was the last Viking not to show up for camp? And with all the fines for not attending, is holding out feasible? I actually don't know who the last guy not to show up for camp was. Because since I've been covering the league, there's been the rookie wage scale. And it's just never been a discussion. And I also think that during the Zimmer-Spielman era, they paid everybody. And that was the only era that I covered. I, I, the last guy to do it very notably since I've been covering the league was Khalil Mack. And you remember that game he

had against the Packers when he showed up to Chicago, but he, I think held out that entire training camp. And then, you know, there's been maybe a few more around the league since I've been covering the Vikings. I just haven't covered one. I expected in 2020 that Delvin Cook was going to hold out. But instead, it was more of a hold in where he barely practiced, didn't play in any of the preseason games. But he was there at practice. A little bit of a weird situation, but ultimately worked out for him to get his contract. But I haven't seen one

where it's every day. It's, oh, is this guy here? Is he not here? What's the reports? What's he putting on Instagram or whatever? That hasn't been a thing. As far as the fines go for not attending, they are significant, but they're not so significant that Daniil Hunter can't afford them. He made $20 or $21 million or something last year in cash. And I actually covered this so little that I don't know what the fines are. Is it $50,000 a day or whatever, $50,000 a camp practice? I mean, you start to add that up and you go, wow, that's like, he's adding up to like $400,000 or whatever. But that's not really that much when you consider what he is in line to make.

And I know that no longer is it in the rules that you can waive those fines, but teams will just tack on another $500,000 or the Vikings will, if he's getting fined that much money, they'll just tack that on to whatever they're going to sign him for an extension or whatever. Or it won't matter because the extension is going to be so big. Are you worried about a couple hundred thou if it's going to mean you making $24 million a year at the end of the day? Plus, he's already got the money in the bank. I just don't think it's a factor. He can hold out if he wants to hold out.

And I think that he should with this situation. He should just wait to get on the field because if he wants to hold out. And I think that he should with this situation. He should just wait to get on the field because if he gets on the field and remember 2020, this is a guy who came out for training camp practice once and then didn't practice again the whole rest of the year. So if you're him, you're not attending a single practice until you have security guaranteed money for your future, or you know that you're getting traded to another team who's immediately signing you to a contract extension. But there are a very few, very small number of players

who can actually pull off a holdout because they have enough cash on hand to do it, which is one of the downsides of the CBA. And I've heard a lot of people say that, and the CBA just, you know, really not that good for the players. And that might be one of the downsides of the CBA. And I've heard a lot of people say that the CBA just, you know, really not that good for the players. And that might be one of the reasons why. This question from Head Coach 21, do you think that Zimmer will be a head coach again? The environment created toward the end of his tenure might scare owners off. I do not. I do not think

that he will be a head coach again. I do think that it's possible he could be a defensive coordinator again, and he could be a very good defensive coordinator. It would have to be the right situation, and naturally the players have to be good. They always do, no matter what, whether it's Brian Flores or Mike Zimmer or whoever. Ed Donatel, I guarantee you Ed Donatel would have done better with a little better personnel. That's not to defend last year. It's just saying if there was a competent nickel corner, if there was consistent outside cornerback play, then maybe they're a little better of a team defensively than they were

even with Ed Donatel. So I've always thought that Zimmer's great proof of that. 2017, he's got great players. He's great. 2020,'ve always thought that Zimmer's great proof of that. 2017, he's got great players. He's great. 2020, he doesn't, he's not, but he knows defense and he knows how to coach it. And he knows how to evaluate players for a team and build it and all that. So he could be a really good defensive coordinator. Still. I totally buy that head coach though. What everybody seems to be looking for in the NFL is the young players coach who's forward thinking is ahead of the games. Analytical.

They love that doesn't mean everyone is analytical succeeds. It just means that's what they're looking for. Somebody who gets sort of modern football ahead of the game. That's and the connection with players thing is a huge deal. Now, as it probably always should have been but it's really big now with the amount of players who understand their worth their power what they can do with their careers their contracts and all that stuff and i don't know that mike zimmer just fits in that world i mean he's also a defensive coach which

automatically makes it harder it made it harder for him to get his first job. And you are completely right. Not only the way that it ended, but a lot of people talk in the league and there was just some really tough things that went down with Zimmer's era and everybody kind of knows the deal. And I don't think like, I'm not hiding anything. I'm just saying what saying what what you already know about the end of the zimmer era everybody else knows that's going to be tough when you had leaders of the team kind of openly criticizing how they were treated and stuff like that that's just not somebody you're probably bringing in even though if you give them the right situation, Mike Zimmer will win. I totally believe that despite whatever punt decisions he makes or whatever analytics he doesn't like, he'll win if he's got the right team.

It's just probably not what teams are looking for at this moment. All right. Last question of a really fun week and definitely not done with fans only. But, you know, we'll get back to having guests on the show and things like that soon enough. So if you want to send questions, Purple Insider dot com at me on Twitter. I'm there. I have a blue sky account now. So if you got that, I guess look me up, find me there. But Purple Insider dot com send the emails there and also on Twitter at Matthew Collar. Always good to look me up, find me there. But purpleinsider.com, send the emails there. And also on Twitter, at Matthew Collar.

Always good to hit me up. From Jeff, what are the odds before camp of a JJ extension, Hawkinson extension, Hunter trade, Hunter extension? Well, let's just include the beginning of training camp, first couple weeks. I'm just going to struggle to be a hot take artist here. I feel like it's almost 50-50 across the board, and that is not an exciting answer,

but I also think it's the right one. I could see Justin Jefferson showing up at training camp and the first day they're like, extension for Justin Jefferson. Everyone celebrate. Or I could see Jefferson showing up to camp and saying, well, I guess we'll talk about it next year because they haven't made the right offer yet. Hawkinson, I don't know how they feel.

I don't know how he feels. There's reason to think that might not happen. And Hunter trade and extension has always been a 50-50 or maybe a 55 extension, 45 trade. And the reason is that if other teams are not giving good enough offers, you have to extend him because if you trade him away for a third round pick, it's going to hurt and it's going to look bad. And it just doesn't even help you for the future that much.

And it's not going to be a good situation. I also don't know how Hunter feels. He may have decided, you know what? even help you for the future that much and it's not it's not going to be a good situation i also don't know how hunter feels he may have decided you know what if they're not buying into me then forget it i'm just done with this team so there's also that as well boy i wish i could come up with something like way more aggressive for a prediction it's just i think that the justin jefferson one happens it makes so much sense for both sides. But does it happen now? That's the question.

Because the fact that Jefferson doesn't have to sign it now means that he can wait all the way until next year if he wants to. Hawkinson makes less sense for his side because betting on himself could be very lucrative. And the Vikings can also wait and franchise tag him if they want. It doesn't have to happen. The Hunter thing has to have a decision. He's not playing on that contract. It has to have a decision. What that's going to be, I'm not sure. I will lean toward Daniel Hunter remains a Viking. I will lean toward Justin Jefferson gets an extension. And right now, I'm going to lean a little bit toward Hawkinson doesn't, but 50, 50 across the board or 53, 51%, whatever you want to say in those ways. And when those things happen though, we'll be there. So continue to throw out your questions for this off season

and leading into training camp. And one thing I'd like, I usually don't give a subject, but I do like this one. If people want to throw out what they are most interested in, in the upcoming training camp, I would love questions. I would love responses to that and questions about things that they're interested in leading up to training camp or you're interested in leading up to training camp because we're getting there and those camp previews. So if camp starts the 26th, those camp previews start coming out pretty darn soon. So anyway,

thanks everybody for listening. Thanks so much for all the participation, keep it coming and we will be back soon enough.