Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Putting odds on Kirk Cousins and Danielle Hunter trades, drafting a QB and a philosophy switch with the Star Tribune's Andrew Krammer

Episode Date: February 2, 2021

Matthew Coller and Andrew Krammer from the Star Tribune dive into rumors that Kirk Cousins could be traded and break down several other topics that seem to be interesting Vikings fans this offseason, like whether they will trade Danielle Hunter and whether the Vikings would consider stocking up on playmakers and switch offensive philosophies around Kirk Cousins. Also will the Vikings draft a quarterback at any point? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Let's get into the show and talk some football. Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider presented by Scout Logistics. Matthew Collar here along with Andrew Kramer from the Star Tribune. Andrew, I got something fun for you today. How are you? I'm doing well. Always good to be on with you, Matt. I've got five things that people constantly, and I appreciate it, tweet me or leave in the comments section that Vikings fans want for this off season and that I don't think any will happen, but I want you to talk about each one, what their odds are of happening and whether it makes sense. Okay. So

that's, that's today's game. And I have to start out with trading Kirk cousins because my mentions since the Matt Stafford for Jared Goff trade have been nothing, but Hey, what if the Vikings did this to trade Kirk cousins? And then there's a rumor from some complete rando who also has a lot of tweets about the Indiana Pacers saying that sounds legit to me that the 49ers and Vikings are there's something you know percolating there and the 49ers are still interested in Cousins which you know they also have a front office and a cap guy so I'm not sure that that's really something that could happen. But trading Cousins is the topic du jour for Vikings fans. So your thoughts on the odds that it happens and whether it would make sense if it happened.

Yeah, I think they obviously hear the noise. They obviously know that there's a lot of people out there who think Cousins isn't the answer. I think, I don't know if there's a bigger discrepancy on kind of how the NFL world views one guy and specifically how the Vikings view him. When I say the NFL world, I guess I mean mostly outsiders, not necessarily front offices, but we don't hear a whole lot of anonymous GMs or scouts or players talking kindly about Kirk. I go back to the Mike Sandoe piece he does every offseason where he ranks, he does the tiers where a very connected, well-connected reporter talks to front offices around the league. And Cousins continually comes in at that kind of mediocrity, middle of the road, not really one of the guys that you kind of put

your chips all in on the way that the Vikings have. With that said, the Vikings need to show in any way, shape, or form that they've come off that position. And I haven't seen it. I haven't heard it, whether off the record or on the record talking to people. We haven't even seen it from one of these national insiders or just, you know, people that hand down information. We haven't even seen it from one of them. We've just seen speculation from pro football talk and some other places about, Hey, this might happen. This is how it might happen. Um, we heard that last year too, from the same places and the Vikings still stood by this guy and they, and they gave him more money. They signed him to a contract extension a couple months later. Um, I think this one is unrealistic as you'd mentioned off the top,

just because we know how the front office feels about Kirk Cousins. We know the guy who signed him to the first mega deal and Rick Spielman. And to move on from him would not only be admitting that you made the wrong move a few years ago, but then to do it for a guy like Jimmy Garoppolo, who you'd presumably have to take on in such a deal, because why would the 49ers keep a couple of these quarterbacks? I just don't see it happening. And it comes down to Mike Zimmer. The last time we heard Mike Zimmer speak, I had asked him about continuity with the offensive coordinator, if Gary Kubiak were to retire. And he had said, what we have to do is match the offense to what the quarterback does. And he's talking about 2021 and he's saying,

Kirk Cousins does X, Y, and Z what we're doing. He does this well, and we're not going to change it because of that. That to me says they have no intention of moving on from Kirk. This is all noise. It's all fun noise. Don't get me wrong. It's a lot of fun to envision these things and how you or I might want to do it. But I think you or I both know how the Vikings actually feel about it. And I just don't see it happening.

So percent chance, I would say 5% because, you know, surely anything's possible as Kevin Garnett says. Indeed. You know, I was thinking about there will be a team though, who gets left out of the quarterback party and whoever that team is. I mean, then you're starting to look at, Oh, is it a Mariota or is it Fitzpatrick or is it, you know, Jameis Winston, which everybody seems to think that the NFL likes Jameis Winston as much as they do. I don't get that. You talk

about internet perception versus reality. The guy through 30 picks, he's not starting in the NFL unless someone gets super super desperate there's a reason why he got paid like 800k to be a backup last year um whatever it was a million dollars like he's not good that's why because he throws interceptions constantly and um I'm also certain there is a price for his character as well or concerns about his character as well but if you're the team as well. But if you're the team, let's say you're Indianapolis and you're like, we're going to get our quarterback. We can't wait to fill this. Oh no. All the quarterbacks are gone. And they say, well, man,

we better send a first round pick to the Vikings for cousins. Or I, that's the only scenario I could see where they even get phone calls about Kirk cousins. I that's the only scenario I could see where they even get phone calls about Kirk Cousins. And even then, that one's hard to work out because Zimmer wants to win in 2021. So is he going to take on Marcus Mariota or Ryan Fitzpatrick or whoever, you know, Gardner Minshew? Like, is he going to do that after Cousins just had a PFF, I think, 10th ranked year and eighth and quarterback rating. Like, I think that Mike Zimmer probably has come around maybe a little bit on cousins and looks at it much more of, it was the defense and we've got to stack up the defense. It wasn't the quarterback that

cost us last year, even though, you know, that's kind of like your whole franchise direction is based on who's playing quarterback for you. Yeah, it's really easy, right? To talk yourself into, if you're the Vikings, it's so easy to talk yourself into boy, if we had just converted a fourth down in Seattle, we're in the playoffs. Everything's fine. Who knows then what happens when we get in the playoffs, forgetting that you would probably look much like Chicago did in this year's playoffs or like you did in new Orleans.

When you got run out of the building in December, this team at the end of the season, certainly just wasn't built to compete. Didn't matter if the defense was going to have a couple starters there or not. They were still going to be missing the kind of contributors that they needed. I also hear a lot about these people talking about how the Stafford trade may have affected some kind of market for Kirk Cousins. I don't see that happening. Let's say we fall into a situation where it is the Colts, where it's one of these desperate teams that's, you know, trying to acquire Kirk. I'm looking at that Stafford trade as an opposing front office and saying, look, that's not even necessarily on

our scale, because that was like an NBA trade. They are paying to acquire a bad contract. They're doing like what the Browns did with Brock Osweiler Jared Goff is not viewed as a good quarterback by most people that watch football Matthew Stafford is very much considered a very good quarterback and for some reason people think that they're on like the same plane that it was like a swap and that Stafford went for two picks any Cousins trade that's involving just picks would not then net two firsts just because Stafford got two first. Like you said, it would probably be more of a first. And then are the Vikings going to want to do that? As you said, rebuild, start over, admit that they were wrong on this decision

and then admit that they're in a rebuild on this end. I just don't see it. Everything they've said publicly, everything we hear behind the scenes about where this franchise is headed, they think they can rebuild on the fly with the talent they have on offense. And that includes Kirk Cousins. And unless you're talking about an obvious and immediate upgrade, Jimmy Garoppolo, I would say if they came with some ridiculous offer,

like Jimmy Garoppolo and a first, okay, great. But they didn't offer Detroit that for Matt Stafford. And it sounds like from Albert Breer's report, that didn't get anywhere that for Matt Stafford. And it sounds like from Albert Breer's report, that didn't get anywhere on in terms of a discussion. So if they're not going to give up high draft capital, and as you mentioned, the two firsts is not the price also for Kirk cousins. I would say it's more like a second round pick that someone would be

willing to give up for Kirk cousins because of his contract. Stafford's contract is very favorable. He's expensive right now, but you could just, if it doesn't work next year and the Rams say, oh, we've got to blow it up. We went all in and it didn't work well, then they could just move on and they could draft someone else or, you know, sign someone else that they want to. And you know, that's not the case with cousins where you pretty much, if are acquiring him he's guaranteed a lot of money and you have to very likely extend him to lower that cap hit for 2022 because it's 45 million right now it's just that that's not something you're giving up two first round picks for or

even a single first round pick I would think um more it would more so be the Vikings moving on from him if they were going to chase somebody else, which, you know, Deshaun Watson's name comes up. I still can't make that fit in any way, shape or form with a potential trade. And so if you're not immediately upgrading, getting a better quarterback right now for this year, then they're not doing it. They're not going to do it to draft Trey Lance or to draft Mac Jones or something like that, because that's not where the head coach and the general manager or the ownership thinks that

this team is at. Yeah. And the Deshaun Watson thing too, we're talking about the guy who's obviously an anomaly in this quarterback market. There are a lot of options that could be available. Matt Ryan, maybe even Dak Prescott somehow who might be the next option closest to Deshaun. But most of them are these bridge-type quarterbacks that the Vikings already feel like they don't feel like they have one. They feel like they have their kind of veteran answer, but that's just how all these other guys would be viewed alongside Kirk Cousins. So is there really an upgrade that you could go out there and get?

One that would be worth kind of taking on the financial hit to move on from Kirk? Is that Matt Ryan? Is that Gardner Minshew who's going to be another Ryan Fitzpatrick style quarterback for the rest of his career? I just don't see it right now in terms of their options. I think they realize and probably think the same that they thought earlier in January, which is that Kirk Cousins in 2021 is going to be the answer. And then the thing that people don't, I think, get with the Deshaun Watson thing is that he has to

he gets to basically choose where he wants to go right by virtue of that no trade clause this is not a situation where the Vikings can just offer the best package and that means it's going to get it done Deshaun can just slap a veto on it and say nope I don't want to go to Minnesota I don't want to play for Mike Zimmer I don't want to do this x y or z whatever reason he could have for not wanting to be here or just I just want to be in Miami or new Orleans, or he could just kind of funnel the offers in from where he wants to. Speaking of NBA style trades, this is another kind of similar deal where like the player seems to have quite a bit of power, especially when the owner has miffed up the situation so badly that he's already leaking out to it seems he's already

leaking out to people what the trade package would have to be to acquire him and all these things and the GM's like we're not gonna move him it's just the whole thing is just being mismanaged entirely and in the end I feel like the only one truly with a grip on the situation seems to be Deshaun Watson we're not gonna move the player I think the general manager said he did not say Deshaun Watson I don't know like is this like are you trying not to tamper with yourself i don't know like what that was weird um but you're right about that and i would also add this to it is if you're deshaun watson you've got the internet clearly and you've probably noticed that the vikings traded away their top receiver because they wouldn't pass the ball enough.

And that their Pro Bowl tight end recently did a long podcast interview where he was upset that they didn't pass the ball enough. Maybe that's not a place that you say, I definitely want to go there. And you know what? I, I hate to say this because I love this state. You love this state, but to somebody who grew up in Texas maybe they don't say you know where I really want to play is in those cold winters of Minnesota so like all those things make the odds of Deshaun Watson almost zero to me if not zero but we need to address the other part of this is it a good idea because Cause the actual odds, we just laid out all the reasons that it's very low, but I would still argue if you were living in true reality about where you stand in the NFL

right now is the Minnesota Vikings. Their Vegas odds are 16th to win the Superbowl next year, mid pack. That's exactly where you are and where Vegas thinks you are and they make money. So they, you know, generally have a feel for these things. If you're 16th, you got to figure out a way to not be 16th in the NFL. So how are you going to do that? Cap space, rebuilding your defense, having a quarterback on a rookie contract, like all these things, they all make a lot of sense when it comes to this. I think what it really comes down to is the, the job security of the people in charge would make you think, well, there's no way then because they're not going to remember when Philadelphia drafted Wentz, like they were in kind of, it looked like, Oh,

we're going to have Sam Bradford and go eight and eight or something. And they said, you know, better idea to just take a step back before taking a step forward. They went something like seven and nine. And then the very next year they're in the super bowl. If the Vikings had a hundred percent job security for Spielman and Zimmer, I wonder how this would conversation would be different. That's a great point because yeah, if you didn't have to worry about, okay, let's go make a run at another rookie quarterback, see if this works out and if you didn't think that you had to stake your entire well-being your your family's kind of

financial well-being and in history right now just kind of on that decision um seeing as the last time they did it was teddy bridgewater the time before that for this gm it was christian ponder for one reason or another just hasn't gone very well and i can imagine why you would be a little shy and hesitant to make that leap especially when again this offense wasn't entirely bad it just got off to such a horrific start with your quarterback that you have staked all this money on and put everything into this basket making what 10 turnovers in that one in five start yeah I do think that if they had that job security and if you get them in an honest moment, maybe they'd admit to you that, yeah,

we might actually make this kind of change. But I do believe though, that they believe in Kirk cousins in a sense that they've at least talked themselves into it. And that his play through January of 2020, when he beat new Orleans in overtime all the way through the end of this season, even though it started horribly for him, I think they found a way to kind of convince themselves through all these decisions that he's going to be the guy.

And so I think that's why it comes down to it. But if I was running the organization, yeah, I would very much try to move up for a guy in the draft. I would, because they've got so many draft picks right now, so much capital accrued. And I understand that when you're paying a quarterback this much, you need draft picks right now so much capital accrued and i understand that when you're paying a quarterback this much you need draft picks it's just maybe what i do preferably is not pay a quarterback that much and just use the draft picks to go get the quarterback you want hey i want to take a second to tell you about our friends at scout logistics and i really mean it when i say

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find out how Scout Logistics can minimize risk, overperform, and go the extra mile for your company. Right. From a philosophical standpoint, it does make a lot of sense so if you're talking about it with your friends the water cooler or i guess via zoom call now if you're not having a place where that has a water cooler um you're not wrong it's just that it's probably not going to happen so all right now let me move on to another one since we're already on the topic of quarterback uh that is on my list of five things that fans are talking about. But, you know, we got to put odds on whether they happen is drafting a quarterback. So I'm watching the senior bowl as one does.

And I'm watching Jamie Newman and know mid-round quarterback when you have a couple of third round draft picks and a situation that you could kind of half put one foot in and not have another foot in there and you can say to the public oh Kellen Mond we needed a cheap backup so that's what he is and we always want to have a developmental quarterback like Taylor Heineke once upon a time like you could sort of slow play a hot you know decently high ceiling draft pick quarterback in the third or fourth round without saying oh yeah this is our next guy after Kirk leaves I think it is realistic for drafting a quarterback just not high really I guess before I answer why do you think it's realistic? I think it's realistic because of how like his contract goes through 2022. And if they go seven and nine again next year, they can't be saying, oh yeah, this is it.

We're all set. And it just kind of aligns for the cousins is the quarterback. You got the developmental guy after him and that kind of Patrick Mahomes, Alex Smith type of situation. It sort of looks that way on its surface. But I also think that they would not spend a first round pick on a quarterback with Mike Zimmer needing so many things on defense. So there could be like a compromise there of, Hey, we need to think about the future of this position. Sorry. I just slapped my shades with my hand, just too much football. And you you know so like a compromise of like we need

someone to be looking forward to and and training to be that guy but also we can't really go all in because then that becomes the storyline of 2021 yeah i think this decision might in this this prop bet that we're making here or putting the percentage on it anyway we might know that by march because if they re-sign sean manion they they've got Jake Browning under contract, they've got Nate Stanley under contract, two basically undrafted free agents. I think we know that those are the four they're going to go in with. I think we know they're not going to draft a quarterback then. The question is, if they go through free agency through March and they didn't sign anybody and it's just those three, I think that's really interesting. And that opens the door for the fact that they could be looking at some of

these guys to come in and can truly compete for the backup job. Cause they said this, they say this year after year where it's going to be a competition, you know, basically before they brought in Mannion, we're going to just, you know, kind of see how it plays out and kind of have, have an open job for it to try to bring along and develop those guys, whether it

was a Kyle Slaughter or a Taylor Heineke or a Case Keenum or whomever they brought in they've tried to make sure they have a reliable backup but that just hasn't been the case we know it's been Sean Mannion and that everything else has just been kind of we'll just have a body we need a scout team arm those kinds of things I have a hard time thinking that at this moment that is going to change, especially with COVID-19 kind of continuing to impact the draft process, the evaluation process. This front office didn't take chances on quarterbacks when they had full evaluations. What's to say that they're going to all of a sudden pivot from one of their basic tenants at the position of not drafting it to then pivot in an

off season where they have even less information and take an even bigger risk on drafting somebody. Look, I love the fact that they could do a Dak Prescott type pick, just bring somebody in from the fourth round that was intriguing in college. And maybe they can come in and surprise you down the road and be that starter. It's just not how this front office does things. And unless George Payton was the guy behind the scenes saying they're not drafting quarterbacks ever, right. And now he's gone and now they're free to do it. I don't think that's the case. I think it's how Rick Spielman likes to do things with this position. And frankly, we hear enough behind the scenes and some of this, you just got to see how it plays out. Cause you hear so much smoke

and mirrors sometimes, but you hear that they like a guy like Jake Browning quite a bit and that means that I think that they could open the door potentially for letting Sean Mannion go and then if they drafted somebody this spring I think it would be more of a day three pick maybe a fourth rounder if the Vikings fans get what they want and then have an actual open competition for that backup spot we'll say Jake Browning played pretty good in that scrimmage we went to US Bank bank stadium for last year. So, I mean, I'm, I'm not, I'm not hyping up the number three quarterback. I'm just saying that he did play pretty well in that. I, yeah, I've, I've also gotten that sense too, that they like Browning. He's clearly a backup, like not a starting caliber type of prospect, but if they moved on from Mannion drafted a QB

kept Browning as their immediate backup. I mean, this is just not a team that's in a position to spend 8 million bucks on a backup quarterback for Kirk cousins. It's always going to be the fact that if he gets hurt for 10 games, you're probably losing seven or more. I mean, that, that was the case with Mannion. I have a ton of respect for him as a journeyman backup and you know, you know how I love journeyman backups, but it's just, that's the reality a journeyman backup. And you know how I love journeyman backups. But it's just that's the reality is Sean Manion cannot carry you over a large portion of the season. It's probably like a Nick Mullins where you'll probably go 6-10 if he's got to play quite a bit.

So if that's the case, well, you might as well have Jake Browning where you could lose all the games and then have a better draft pick while you, well, you're also developing someone else kind of like the Packers have Tim Boyle thing. His name is and Jordan love. So you'd have the same thing from a philosophical standpoint, the other part of the conversation. I mean, to me, it's almost ridiculous if they don't do it. And the reason you laid out for how tough it is, it's that tough on everybody else too. So if they think, you know, whatever, oh, these are the only quarterbacks worth drafting. You might be able to get lucky on it or have a higher chance that someone drops. I mean, Jamie Newman didn't even play this year. So nobody knows

anything about Jamie Newman, except for he's got a strong arm and can run like, okay, why not? And you know, Kellen Mond is kind of the same not he didn't opt out but he had like a really good year in a small sample size so there's probably questions why not take that pick because look what they I mean the fourth round picks Jaleel Johnson Jalen Holmes like were these worth it I mean I versus someone with even a five% chance of becoming your future quarterback, I would say definitely, you know, that, that it philosophically makes sense. Yeah. DJ want them really needs to be the guy that turns around their fourth round record, because as you said, it's been pretty bad. It's been pretty bad. It has, uh, let me move on to

the next one on the list, unless you had something else to say on that. Um, I would say that that one, the percentage chance though, to me would be even lower than trading kirk cousins i i just i don't know i i think right now they've got such a set way of doing things and wanting to fill out this roster with how many holes that they've got on the rest of this roster they're gonna have a bunch of guys in the fourth round or third round or whatever that they think can plug into the roster and be a linebacker safety whatever like they'll they'll talk themselves into so many other positions like getting cheap labor they're thinking they're set at quarterback that i just i don't see it happening but for your sake i hope it does happen yeah yeah i mean for purple insider podcast sake any of these things will be great well here's your opportunity to turn around

cold water kramer that keeps pouring cold water on every idea den Daniil Hunter trade, give me your percentage chance that you think a Daniil Hunter trade happens. I mean, I've got it at a coin flip. Tell me if you think that's different. Yeah, I think of the three, this being the third one we've talked about, I think this is the highest percentage chance just because Daniil Hunter and the way that he seemed to have gone about this behind the scenes, I know he was not happy with how a lot of it was dealt publicly in terms of the information that came out about his injury, the information that came out about just his process of seeking a surgery and deciding to get operated on. He wasn't happy with a lot of that and made that known to people

in the organization. And so because of that, we know, okay, he's unhappy on one end of the spectrum. The other end, we know he's also been really underpaid for some time. And we haven't heard that from him. I haven't heard that from him. But you know, that's got a way on him, right? And there was that kind of vague NFL media report that he wants to be the highest paid defender in the NFL and all this stuff. I don't know if any of that's true. I can't verify that, but he's underpaid. And so that's another part of it. So underpaid, not happy with how recently things went injured, coming off of really severe injury in terms of just the optics of it.

I don't know the specifics, but just knowing that it's a neck, a spine, getting that fused together does not sound like it's an easy thing to come back for anybody. So with all of that in play, I do think that there's enough smoke there that you could say, yeah, if, if, if somebody comes in, if there's a Rams type team that thinks we're a Daniel Hunter piece away, we believe that this defensive player of the year candidate is the guy that can take us over the top. Here's a Khalil Mack style, just trade package for him. Why would you say no no if you're the Vikings because right now this defense is not a Daniel maybe they disagree with me but this defense is

not a Daniel Hunter away from being one of the worst in the NFL to being back up to where you were in 2017 right I also don't think they're a Michael Pierce a Daniel Hunter and an Anthony Borroway I still think you have many questions If you've got all three of those guys back healthy, I think you're still looking at a lot of question marks on that defense. And we don't know, we don't know if those injuries, those players are going to be the same when they come back. There are just so many questions with it. So I think the team should be open about it from what I've heard about

Daniel and from his camp. I think they would be open about it. It's just a question of, is a reality do teams want him what would those packages be those are all things that we have no idea about. I want to remind you about our friends at Soda Stick if you use the promo code Purple Insider you can get free shipping at sodastick.com to get your original Minnesota sports inspired goods. There's so many great designs, including Chuck Foreman, spin doctor shirts, skull hats, straight cash homie shirts, and much, much more. And if you are a hockey fan without getting going soon or a basketball fan, make sure you check out all sorts of great designs. Their apparel is screen printed here in Minnesotanesota on super soft super comfy shirts

and hoodies you will love it that's sodastick.com s-o-t-a-s-t-i-c-k.com original minnesota sports inspired goods code purple insider for free shipping so i pitched to courtney cronin on another podcast two draft picks from the jets number 34 and 87. I think they were, and she liked that trade idea, but listeners did not. Uh, uh, the feedback that I got on that one was, are you crazy? They should be looking for a Khalil Mack type package, but you laid it out there. Khalil Mack did not have any type of severe injury that kept him out for an entire year that he's going to spend this entire offseason rehabbing. And we think of Daniel Hunter as Superman. And my gosh, we've watched him get what, you know, 29 sacks or something the last two years that he's playing. He's an unbelievable player, but that lowers the value. The new contract requirement, it lowers the value and it makes it harder. So even though defensive players like Jamal Adams and like Khalil Mack are bringing a lot on the trade market, I'm also thinking that some other teams look at those trades and go,

but did it really work out for Seattle? But did it really work out for Chicago? I mean, Seattle still had a bad defense. Chicago can't afford things like, is that really a great idea? And so, yeah, there's always a team that might be interested, but I'm not sure you can get as much as they would want to get, or especially in public that would look like

if you traded him for a second and a third, I mean, I think that the fan base would lose their mind. And you also have to consider that too, if you're making trades, like how is this going to look? Even if it opens up a ton of cap space and get you more draft picks that could potentially make a difference. Yeah. If I'm, if I'm the Vikings, I scoff at that kind of deal too, because I mean, Jalen Ramsey went for two firsts and a fourth and the Rams had to pay him. The Rams

then had to back up the truck to pay him. So that was kind of a similar situation where it was a healthier player, obviously, but star caliber guy, you've had to pay on that contract similar age all those things i would be demanding multiple firsts and i wouldn't be budging off that if i were the vikings um and i think i'd be saying everything privately and publicly that they are saying that his recovery is going well what did mike zimmer say last month ahead of schedule all these things that they say um that's the right move regardless of what you're trying to do with them however we know how stubborn to this franchise is so that plays into it i think their stubbornness their history of being stubborn this is a team

that wouldn't move on in a front office that wouldn't move on from adrian peterson after everything that he went through in 2014 they hung on so tightly that he led the league in rushing in 2015. And then, you know, finally it took another bad year for them to finally move on from the guy. Most teams would have done that a few years ago, basically maybe after the 2014 thing. That's an example that when a guy is, is quote unquote homegrown, as they say, in terms of drafting, developing,

paying as they have with Daniil, at least to some extent. I think they're going to be super stubborn, which means it's going to play into them only budging if somebody comes with that massive offer. And if that doesn't happen, we might never hear about any trade whiffs about the guy at all, because they're going to just say, nope, we never wanted to move him in the first place. When, yeah, you probably would have maybe if a guy come along with two firsts and a fourth, I don't know how you don't budget that kind of offer because that's, that's, that's the kind of package that this front office salivates at knowing what they could do with it. Right. It's

what you want for him. And you think his value is versus what someone else is willing to pay. And if I'm another team and I'm making the phone call, I'm not offering two first round picks for a defensive end, no matter how close my team is to winning. It's just, you know, I mean, even with defensive ends, there are just a lot of guys who can rush the passer, not like Daniel Hunter, but you can find them on the free agent market. You can find them in a, in a deep draft this year, all those things sort of play into there. I mean, there's gotta be five, six, seven guys in the free agent market this year who are proven and good pass rushers. So why are you giving up that much? And if you're the Vikings, just like with digs, I don't think the Vikings were going to budge on digs until someone came with the first.

And then when they did, they decided, OK, let's do it. I think we agree that philosophically there's a great argument for it as good as he is. Just because like, there's a lot of pieces to go. I totally agree with, with what you said, that drafting a defensive end signing and, you know, a veteran corner or something like this, this is not a defense that can be number one next year. So if you have a chance to continue your rebuild through young players of the defense, while being competitive, I think you prefer that than pouring 20, 25.

There's no way to manipulate the cap to make what Hunter wants actually work. And that's, that's going to be the biggest piece of it, right? Is the financial part of it. If the cap doesn't go down as much as people think it was, or that was feared, at least those are the early reports. Agents are talking about how it seems like the cap they're planning for it to be a lot higher than that 175 floor if that's the case then maybe you've got some room maybe you can redo a Harrison Smith deal you can redo an Anthony Barr you can redo

a Daniil Hunter and you can try to fit all these guys in under the roof like they continually do every offseason but the finances are going to be the big part of it. If Daniil makes a stink out of it, if he holds out, if he tries to get what he frankly deserves and plays hardball with it, then that's when it's going to kind of make the situation more public. But the way we see Daniil operate and the way we see the Vikings operate, I wouldn't be shocked if we see him show up to whatever voluntary OTAs they've got. He does everything he's supposed to do. He shows that he's healthy because he knows that if he wants out, that's his best way of getting out.

And then frankly, the Vikings know that they like to keep all this kind of stuff quiet on the wraps. They're not the kind of team that wants the drama being played out publicly. Even though we knew with Stefan Diggs, it was there. We know it's there a little bit with Daniil Hunter right now.

It's just a matter of moving forward. Can they make him happy financially? My colleague, I know Ben over here at the Star Tribune, he's reported that the Vikings want to do everything they can financially to make Daniel happy. And if that's the case, if they truly can back that up, then I think it's going to be all right. Cause Mike Zimmer might be the hardest one to convince to make that trade.

Just knowing the kind of pride that not only he, but Andre Patterson take in developing a guy like that. And then also the perfect fit that Danielle is personality wise for the locker room, for the team. I just, I think they think this guy is a future hall of famer in purple only. And that's kind of the way they would want it. So I guess that's, that's my closing argument for it. But then again, if there was some massive package for Daniel Hunter, why not consider it? So I think that's got the highest percentage chance. I'd say maybe 30%. Yeah. For me, you won't find too many better players in the league, but it's just about the value and where you stand as a franchise. Like

if he comes back and he gets you 12 sacks next year and you go eight and eight, because your roster isn't strong enough, like, was it worth it? And this, this kind of happens to them a lot where you do some things and you go, was it worth it to sign cousins to an extension? So you could sign Michael Pierce. Like, I mean, it didn't, it looked like there was going to have to be a lot of changes. And then there wasn't you know, at least from that aspect,

there wasn't a change at quarterback and it did it work out? Like you signed, you know, at least from that aspect, there wasn't a change at quarterback. And did it work out? Like you signed, you know, Delvin cook to a long-term contract extension so far, was it worth it? Not really. And now you're at a risk of him, you know, declining after his huge workload and things like that. So I feel like we've asked that question a number of times, Anthony bar. Oh, you got him back from the jets. What a great day that was, was worth it and so far the answer is no it hasn't been I'm just gonna put the number four and five together with each other because they relate uh drafting slash signing a wide receiver slash changing offensive philosophy to build more around Kirk Cousins

give me your percentage chance that those things are a possible reality. Because you're talking about if they were to invest in a third wide receiver, that would be just such a kind of deviation from where they're at now offensively in terms of the multiple tight end sets, fullback, multiple backfields,

all that kind of stuff. The heavy personnel to run and then set up the pass as everybody knows that's not I don't think that's going anywhere I think we've heard Mike Zimmer say that's not going anywhere now one of the candidates for the OC job who was a Giants wider receivers coach Tyke Tolbert he's a Kubiak guy so it sounds like even if they brought him in and wanted to hire him doesn't sound like that's going to go anywhere either because the continuity is still a priority um so i think this falls in with the cousins trade the drafting the quarterback thing

i just think it's one of the lower probabilities of these things maybe 10 just because they don't have a lot of depth right now um but i think if gary Gary Kubiak left one thing and left one strong impression on Mike Zimmer, it's kind of solidifying the way he wanted things done on offense. It was giving him this blueprint, this vision for, Hey, you, you knew you wanted these abstract things. Here's the design of how you can get it done. And I think Mike Zimmer is going to hold onto that, especially when it results. And I know it's, it going to hold onto that, especially when it results in, I know it's just a volume stat, but when it results in the fourth ranked offense

or something like that in terms of yardage, it just shows the potential of what they have and that what they can go out there on a Sunday and do. And Mike Zimmer, I think is not going to let go of that. So with that said, I think you're going to see a similar offense. And I think you're going to see wide similar offense. And I think you're going to see wide receiver, not really get a bunch of resources because they're going to stick with

Jefferson and feel in for quite a while. Like I agree with Zimmer that this is the right way to run your offense. But I also think that if you have Chad BB as your answer to Justin Jefferson, tweaking an ankle, like you're in a bad spot. And also if you're running on second down and 10, like this is not something that any of the teams who are running this offense with the utmost efficiency are really doing on a regular basis. And I think about 2019 San Francisco 49ers in terms of EPA and passing were fifth. I mean, they were a great passing attack and like they had a

lot of weapons. I'm looking at it right now. Like George Kittle, of course, is a superstar. Debo Samuel, Emmanuel Sanders. They had Tevin Coleman was a receiving running back that they added. They had Marquise Goodwin for half of that season, a guy who was like the fastest receiver in the NFL. They drafted Dante Pettis. He didn't work out, but they drafted another wide receiver. And then uh you know Debo Samuel comes in like the next year or no no Debo Samuel was their top and he was a draft pick so he was their top wide receiver so like I mean they bring Brandon Ayuk again yeah right yeah Brandon Ayuk that's what yeah that's what I meant not Debo Samuel but Brandon Brandon Ayuk is another

guy that they they just keep bringing in weapons for their quarterback, knowing that you have to work around some weaknesses. And I'm watching the senior bowl, watching Amari Rogers from Clemson. Who's this kind of bowling ball, like tough tackle, breaking wide receiver who looks like he could also double as a running back, like a David Palmer type from back in the day, somebody who could do a lot of things. I think in the third round, if you get there and there's wide receivers who can make plays, you have to find someone fast, someone who can run under a four or five, if you could,

to make some plays. Because every third down, you've seen this, double Diggs and Thielen, double Jefferson and Thielen. Like getting someone else who can make things a little easier for Cous cousins can go from the 11th scoring offense to the eighth scoring offense. And, you know, that might be all it takes, but I feel like you, like Zimmer says, you can never have too many corners. You can never have too many playmakers. That's a good point too, because I think one thing that in my initial answer, I overlooked is the fact that you do have offenses like Sean McVay in Los Angeles where they do run a similar play action heavy run style scheme outside zone all that stuff and they do it out of 11 personnel they do it with multiple wide receivers

they try to spread the field while also bringing you up to the line of scrimmage at the same time and then they go ahead and they draft a second round wide receiver in Van Jefferson even though they've got Woods, Kupp, Reynolds all these guys that are working out they continue to pour resources into that position too we hear Mike Zimmer so often talk about we need guys that can cover and guys that can rush the passer on the flip side you need guys that can pass block and guys who can catch the ball right you just aren't seeing the same devotion of resources to the catching part of it outside of Justin Jefferson, following them, you know, shipping Stefan Diggs out of town. That was a totally a necessary need

pick. And the fact that this guy fell into your lap outside of that. Yeah. It was Diggs in the fifth round who was, who literally did fall into their lap feeling undrafted. Yeah. They have not put resources into this position at least successfully until Justin Jefferson. And I think, I do think you're going to see Irv Smith emerge. He's not going to be a George Kittle because very few people are, but you're going to see him emerge in a way that I think we're going to look back and say, okay,

that second round pick was the right investment for that position. Do they do that then with yeah. Third or a fourth at wide receiver, like the Steelers didn't need chase Claypool. Steelers didn't necessarily need that and look what they got out of it they got some pretty some pretty good production out of it so I think there's an argument there it's it's just the question of do you need that more than you need to replace Jaleel Johnson at defensive tackle do you need that more than you need to replace uh Dakota Dozier at left guard and all the other needs that they've got in the trenches specifically. I think that's going to stack up to it, but you lay out a good argument in the sense that too, they can adjust this scheme

in a nuanced way that allows you to get more wide receivers on the field. Maybe that helps out Kirk. So looking at the 2018 Rams, since you bring them up, Robert Woods had 86 catches Brandon Cooks had 80 catches and Cooper Cup in only half a season had 40 and then Josh Reynolds added 29 so they had three receivers who are real good and by the way weird Jared Goff just hasn't been the same since maybe there's a connection there since they only have one receiver instead of three or two I guess two uh Woods and Cup but you know I mean this has always been a thing I've wondered about like this offense works in three wide receiver um Stefanski used three wide receiver more than um Kubiak did last year probably just because Irv Smith was the best guy to have on the field in comparison

pretty big drop off between Irv Smith and someone like Chad Beebe. So, you know, adjust to the players that you have. Right. I mean, that's what, that's what Pat Schirmer always talked about. Well, and then we get Tyler Conklin emerging the way he did. Is that going to reinforce the direction they were already in when, when you've got Conklin emerging like that with Irv Smith, do you envision them the future being those two guys with Jefferson and Thielen? And then, yeah, maybe that leads to them. Maybe it's kind of a confirmation bias thing where they just, all right, we've got the players here at tight end. We might as well just stick with that kind of philosophy.

Okay. Let's wrap on this. Give me some sort of prediction. Last year, by the way, you predicted digs to the bills on my show. No, I didn't. You did. I swear that happened. No, yes, you were, you were on the show and you were talking about like a digs to the bills on my show no i didn't you did i swear that happened no yes you were you were on the show and you were talking about like a digs trade and the drama going on with him and you

said you know hey a team like buffalo would make so much sense for digs it was the only team you name dropped so you nailed it um how about that you don't have to do it with vikings i'm just curious like this off season is just bat bleep crazy and so give me like your hottest prediction of what you think the next domino is to fall wow um yeah that's that's that's a big one because I think right now the quarterback stuff is huge and everybody's kind of fixated on that um but we forget that like guys like I don't know JJ Watt's going to be available um there are a lot of like under the radar kind of free agents and talents that are going to be out there. I don't know in terms of a trade though. So you're just saying just in general, give me an NFL prediction. Go on, whatever you got,

whatever comes, whatever I got next big thing to happen. Boy. All right. Next big thing to happen. I think JJ watt to stick on that one is going to be a Baltimore Raven. Oh, wow. That would be classic Ravens. They love to do that. Yeah. I think you're going to pick up every late career guy. Yeah. I think you're going to see him kind of just in a similar way. I think it makes sense in terms of their philosophy with how they do things in Baltimore, how they need more defensive help up front, how even their investment and Yanni Ngakwe, whom we all know so well. I don't think that was really the game changer. That's the out that everybody's looking for so yeah I think you'll see him land

there I am though curious just in a broader sense of the Deshaun Watson deal and how long that plays out and how how much of a ripple effect there's going to be because as you mentioned whether it's Cousins to San Francisco and displacing Jimmy Garoppolo. What if it's Deshaun Watson to Miami displacing Tua? I mean, there's just going to be so many different kinds of dominoes that fall. I don't know if I'm very curious to see how the bears end up in this situation, because the questions that you and I get to keep jumping around are about

how the NFL, how the NFC North quarterback situations are going to play out with this musical chairs. Well, we know now that the Detroit Lions are much worse at quarterback. We don't know where the Bears are going to end up. And if they can somehow get themselves in the Deshaun Watson sweepstakes five years after they should have drafted them, that would be the Vikings' worst nightmare. And yeah, I'm fascinated to see if it happens. I think Gardner Minshew is a bear for sure. Like lock it in. It just screams like they're the team left out of the party. And they're like, we really wanted Minshew all along. That was who our number one target was. So Andrew,

great stuff. You do great work for the Star Tribune. It's always fun to get together with you. And I appreciate your time, sir. This was good. Yeah, thanks for having me on. It's always good to talk to you. And I too, I have to agree. Gardner Minshew, Chicago. This is write it down, man. Thank you.