Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - QB Class FACT OR FICTION with Chris Trapasso

Episode Date: March 30, 2024

CBS Sports Draft analyst Chris Trapasso analyzes criticisms of the 2024 QBs in the draft. Does Drake Maye still struggle with accuracy? Is J.J. McCarthy lacking a standout tool? Or are these just draft cliches? https://surfshark.deals/PURPLEINSIDER Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

hey everybody welcome to another episode of purple insider matthew collar here and returning to the show cbs sports draft analyst chris trapasso And not much has actually changed, but yet we did have an owner's meeting since we last spoke, Chris. So we've got to get your latest update before we dive into everything that we've got planned for today's show of how you're feeling about where the Minnesota Vikings stand in their quest to potentially trade up to draft a quarterback. There seemed to be a feeling at the owners meetings that the Vikings really want to do that. And I don't think Kevin O'Connell was all that shy about it every time he was asked, but there also are a lot of other teams, including Sean Payton saying it's realistic to say that they would want to trade up. So even though we don't have a clear and obvious, hey, they're going to do this,

it does seem like the chances are pretty high that somebody is able to move up to the top of the draft. So what do you think the Vikings' odds are of getting that done, trading up, and taking their guy? Pretty high. I mean, to come out of the owners meetings like you mentioned there was nothing definitive but what is good for the Vikings is that there was nothing like the Cardinals GM uh you know coming out and saying hey we're definitely going to pick a wide receiver or

we're not going to move like they all all those teams from like three even the Patriots to three Cardinals at four were kind of like yeah our phone our phone lines are open. Like we're ready. And I almost got the impression that everyone there, like, I mean, you mentioned Sean Payton saying like, yeah, it's realistic that the Broncos want to trade up. But it almost felt like everyone in attendance and you were certainly there. So maybe, you know, tell me if this is wrong. It's like, why are we overthinking this? The Vikings have two first round picks. They have the need.

Like they have more ammo in this draft than any other team. It just kind of felt like, to me, without even being there, just from gathering on Twitter what everyone was saying, like, is it three or four? No one really knows that, but it's probably going to be the Vikings. That doesn't mean that it's locked in. We don't have parameters of a deal or any report, but it just kind of feels like stop overthinking it.

The Vikings are the team that are most well-equipped to make that ascension up the board. Well, the word that kept getting used, whether it was by Kevin O'Connell or Mark Wilf, owner of the Vikings, was flexibility. Kept saying, well, you know, that pick gives us flexibility. And I think what it really gives them is the card in the back of their pocket

to pull out and say, look, I know that you like first round draft picks and the Broncos are offering you three, but we're offering them today. You can drive these draft picks off the lot today in this draft. And there's always more value to that. I think the big question still remains is will the Vikings dip into 2025? There is a very good argument to not do that, especially if the Vikings have to play Sam Darnold and they end up say, you know, going six and 11 or something. And then you're talking about giving away a top 15 draft pick. I don't think that they want to do that. But also it's hard to project them as being a great team in the division for next year. And if you do have to develop a JJ McCarthy, that could happen. And so there is, I think, some hesitation there, and that might be

the sticking point. It also might be that Kevin O'Connell is going to spend the next several weeks meeting with these guys. And if you're going to go to your ownership and say, we're putting it all in, or you're going to your GM, you got to say, I am really sure I sat with this guy in a room. I did all the stuff, working them out on the field. And I had lunch with him and he ate the right foods and he'd rather be a dog than a cat. And every other thing that he'd ask players when deciding whether to draft them or not. I think they might want to do that first because I've been trying to put a timeline on when this is going to happen. And it could be any time from right after we're done with this podcast to right before the Vikings pick. I think it's going to be, and you're usually right on Viking

stuff. So maybe this is like jinxing it in a good way. If people are impatient and want this to go down, I think just as a draft analyst, it's going to happen like on the clock. And maybe there is some bias there that, that I'm in the Buffalo area. And that's what happened with the bills that, that Baker Mayfield goes off the board, Sam Darnold.

And it's like, Oh, is someone going to pick Josh Allen? Like we got to get ahead of the Arizona Cardinals to do it. And they did. And they got the right Josh. The Cardinals had to settle for Josh Rosen. We just don't know. And we've talked about this quite a bit. Do the Vikings love JJ McCarthy? How do they feel about Drake May? Are they like, do they kind of feel like those two are neck and neck? Are they like,

oh man, if, if Drake May's there at three or four, that's the guy that we need to get. neck are they like oh man if if drake mays they're at three or four that's the guy that we need to get or they're like hey let's just get either one and we're we're totally at ease with that and maybe like from what you just mentioned they don't know that quite yet they they have all the evaluations done quacey's you know poured over all the analytics but now it's time for kevin o'connell to meet with these guys and go oh man like josh rosen is kind of doesn't have his head on straight and maybe he's not you know in love with football the way Josh Allen is, or as hyper competitive as, as Josh Allen is to use that 2018 example again. So I think to me, it's, it's, it's unless they do just love one way more than the other, it kind of feels more likely that they'll say, okay, let's sit back and see what happens. And then we're ready to pull that trigger at pick three or pick four based on how those

first couple of picks unfold. And it's really important to me that O'Connell sit in the room with whoever he's going to work with and try to simulate the experience of actually doing that, because that's how it's going to be. This is the most hands-on head coach with his quarterback, probably in the entire National Football League. And he wants it that way, and I think if you're a quarterback, you like it that way too, because this isn't trying to hope

and guess about the scheme. O'Connell is going to communicate that, and he's got to have someone who can reciprocate. I think with maybe someone like Will Levis, I don't know what it was they didn't believe in, but that is a possibility that when they had that chance to draft in that they just thought he doesn't gel with the fits for Kevin O'Connell and whether that means best fit is at three or second best fit is at four, but he's got to have, I think multiple players here that he's going to be comfortable with, which really kind of takes us into the next phase of our discussion, which is I've, I've invented a little bit

of a game because we are waiting to see, and it could happen at any time, uh, the trade and what's going to happen if they are able to move up or if they stick and pick. But in the meantime, I've been reading a lot about this draft class. And something that I notice is that any time you ever bring up a draftable quarterback, there is one person who says, that guy is going to be a bust. I don't believe in that guy. And they are very confident and they make that declaration. I would never take that quarterback. If they do that, I will sell my season tickets and I will buy a cheese head. That's I see that every time. So what I thought was, let's talk about these criticisms of the quarterbacks and the quarterback

class. And so what I did was I went through multiple different draft analysts who I will not name, but who are all credible, put it that way. I didn't go to, you know, draft dog.web. This is from all credible draft analysts,

but I didn't want to say who, because I didn't want you to be in a position to have to argue with whatever other draft analysts. So these anonymous draft analysts, I'm going to read criticisms of theirs, of different quarterbacks. And I want you to tell me fact or fiction. Do you think it is an actual criticism of this quarterback? Or is that something that is in the imagination of the draft analyst. So let us begin with, in my opinion, the best fit for the Minnesota Vikings, which would be Drake May. I think he's the best fit with his size, his ability, and his tool set to go with the Vikings and throw downfield to Justin

Jefferson. But an unnamed draft analyst said of Drake May, quote, there are times when he just misses, which can be due to a lack of fundamentals, but sometimes he just misses throws of varying distances. Do you agree with that Drake May criticism? I do. And we saw it at his pro day that I think early on there was a couple out routes that were just like, whoa, that was a high in a way, like just a bit outside. But then I thought later in the, in the pro day, once he kind of got those out of his system, he was hyper accurate. So yes, I do agree with that. I love Drake may just ever so slightly

behind Caleb Williams in my scouting grade book, but that is true. Like you will get those wild pitches every once in a while all right now the addition to the game which is to give me a one to ten how much that matters for each criticism how much does it matter that drake may misses some passes in this way i don't think very much that it's like this kind of like might sound silly but if a quarterback is going to throw let's use that out route for example if he misses by a foot or by five feet but otherwise like doesn't have an accuracy problem I it doesn't really bother me or if it's if it's not even a high and away throw and it's a little bit behind the receiver and he has to adjust and he drops it it's all bad throw

well yes one throw was technically more accurate than the other. The other one was five feet over his head out of bounds, but they're both in completion. So to me, if it was a problem and you could watch all of Drake May's games and say, man, he's just not accurate with the football, then yes, you would point to those glaring negatives and say, yeah, here's the biggest example where any casual fan watching could see those misses.

I don't really get that with Drake May, but the, and I remember it from Patrick Mahomes, and I remember it from Josh Allen coming out. They had those, whoa, what was that throw? Like open wide receiver. And yes, you may get an occasional interception if that's an in-breaking route that, you know, like the free safety is kind of waiting for that pass to be overthrown. But with Drake may, I would say at one to 10, it's about a two or a three.

I think that when we watch so much of these guys, there's an expectation of perfection. We just think, Oh, well, he's a first round pick. He should just be flawless. And then we forget what right. Then we forget what other guys looked like when they were coming out or even what other guys look like on actual Sundays, because it's been a while since we've watched anybody on TV play National Football League football. And, you know, Kirk Cousins was one of the most accurate quarterbacks in the NFL. He would misthrow sometimes, too. That's not to dismiss that May does it more often than you would like. It's just that that is not going to happen with flawless precision every single time, especially when these guys are younger and have technical elements to their

game that they clearly have to, you know, improve on. So I also agree with this. And I think that it's more of a three or four out of 10 for concern. If you do it all the time, it's a problem, but I don't think that that's how it is with Drake May.

Next criticism of Drake May can struggle to come off his pre-snap read when the picture changes on him post-snap. Is that a fair or unfair criticism of Drake May? Unfair. I'll call that fiction because I saw and knowing, and we've talked about this, that the North Carolina offense, and then it's kind of funny that it's like all the offenses, they're kind of gimmicky. They're not pro style. And we've moved away from pro style being under center play action, but the down the field, like air raid, Washington offense, Oregon offense,

North Carolina offense, like they scored a lot of points. There's NFL offensive coordinators that are moving from college to the NFL, like Ryan Grubb, and that are just incorporating a lot of those elements of just like, hey, let's spread it out. Four verticals, and there's a tight end that runs a post down the middle and let it rip. So for being in that offense, I went into Drake May, like having just watched him as a college football fan, as an analyst in December, watching him in early January,

I was like, let's see if he's just like a one-read guy. And I did not see that at all. I think he's, oh, RPO slant, it's not there. I'm going to get to my second read. Do I think he's Drew Brees in his prime? No, but I would not call that a criticism. And I'm 99% sure I didn't have anything of, ooh, slow processor, get stuck on the first read in my own notes.

I would put it this way for me. I have had the privilege of covering three games, I think maybe four, where Drew Brees played against the Minnesota Vikings. You mentioned Drew Brees. games i think maybe four where drew breeze played against the minnesota vikings you mentioned drew breeze and he is the best at identifying everything getting to read setting his feet being accurate all those things just has this freakish matrix like ability to see the field with being six foot tall it is one of the all-time godly type of abilities that i've ever seen you know how many college quarterbacks i have uh been reminded of when watching uh you know them play of drew breeze zero absolutely not because it doesn't work that way it's just that the defenses are way less

complicated the quarterbacks are given far fewer options at the line of scrimmage. And when the picture changes, if there's a defense that's actually changing the picture at the line of scrimmage, it's gotta be Alabama because there aren't too many others that are coached like that. Like Nick Saban did most of the time, the picture doesn't change. And I just think it's one of those. If you watch NFL all the time, then watch college football. You'd be like, these guys don't even go through their reads. You're like, that's correct. They don't. That's why it's so hard to figure out who's going to be the next man up. So I won't rant too much about

that more, but I just think that you could write that criticism for every single guy. And there's nobody who today could step into the NFL and do it effectively. And that's what I was getting at about the, the pro style offense kind of critique. Like I think to write that in a scouting report today as a draft analyst, you would kind of get laughed at like, okay, dude, what's a pro style offense. But that criticism to me kind of reminds me of like trying to sneak in the didn't run a pro style offense in college criticism into a scouting report.

Like didn't get to his fifth read on every play. And it's like Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen don't really do that either. And they get confused at times as well. So the Drew Brees example, and I think Kirk Cousins is good at, or has been good for his whole career at, you know, understanding where to go with the football. If it looks like two safeties up top, but it's only one,

but 99% of quarterback prospects are not good at that. There will be times where Drake Mays confused, but I didn't see it as he could only get to the first read and then he was like, oh, I'm going to run. I saw him literally go across the entire field many times over the last two years and get through those progressions at North Carolina. I also think just at the NFL level, it can be, and I'm not saying totally, but it can be a touch overstated. Like it depends on the offense. It depends on how you play. And I believe if I

remember the stat from PFF, 70% of passes go to the first read. So it's just been one of those sort of cliche things that I was, I was hoping you would say fiction because that's what I think it is too. So not real concerned about that because I have no idea whether he'll be able to do it or not. And neither does anyone else. Last one for Drake may we'll spend the most time on him for obvious reasons. He is the let's see here. Combination of traits and tape make him a boom or bust prospect. Is Drake May a boom or bust type of prospect?

So is that insinuating? Factor fiction. You got to say factor fiction. Oh, sorry. Fiction. And I will say, I don't really understand how that's written. And again, we're not trying to bash any draft analysts. A lot of times when I read other scouting reports,

and I just try not to do this in my own, you'll see like a positive, like a strength, and then in the negative section or the weaknesses, there's like the opposite thing. I'm like, well, which one is it? And to me, it's like, does that suggest that his tape is not that good, but he has really awesome traits? I don't even know what that's suggesting, but I don't think again,

because of the back-to-back years where he was setting all these records as a sophomore at North Carolina and then came back, didn't have as much NFL talent and was still really good last year. Getting through his reads, the arm talent, the improv, the running, that literally designed run game ability at his size. I don't think he's boom or bust. I think in general, he's relatively high floor because he checks a lot of the boxes of what you

need out of a modern day franchise quarterback. I will go with fact because I think that applies to all of them. I think that any quarterback taken in the first round could have the ability to be great under the right circumstances, and they could all bust. Yeah, who's the last quarterback? Sorry to kind of jump in here. Who's the last first-rounder that's like, oh, he's kind of good.

He's still on his same team that drafted him. They're maybe going to give him a low-level extension. It just doesn't happen. It's either you get $250 million or you on another team in like two or three years. So that is a good point that it's really, they're all boomer bust technically. Right. With teams moving on from the Kenny Pickett's and Justin Fields that are just kind of meh, it's really Daniel Jones. That is the guy who fits into this category and the Giants now regret that but he's the only one that you can really talk about who was not boom or bust he was just kind of there uh and is

really likely to be a backup I think after this all right let's move on to uh Jaden Daniels so it sounds to me anyway like a lot of the critiques of uh Drake May just aren't really ones that would terrify you away from drafting him at the top. If you're the Minnesota bike, is that the bottom line? That's that's the point of the game is to make that decision. Yes,

absolutely. Would not, would not scare you enough. The one or two wayward misses every game or so. You just get to the next down. I've seen Josh Allen do it a bunch. Still. I've seen Patrick Mahomes do it a bunch.

Oh, that one skipped in the dirt. And then literally the next throw is in the bucket down the field, 30 yards between three cornerbacks. And it's like, okay, that miss on the play before it didn't matter. That's kind of how I similar feeling that I get with Drake made. And that's the only critique that you mentioned that I do think is fact, but it just doesn't really move the needle that much. Well, that's yeah. And for me, that's because there are NFL quarterbacks that way. And my comps for him have been Stafford and Eli Manning.

And those guys had tons of bad throws. And, you know, the high end is high. So let's move on to Jaden Daniels. Fact or fiction about this criticism from a credible draft analyst. Quote, mediocre velocity can sometimes struggle driving the ball into tight windows. How do we feel about that criticism? Fact or fiction on Jaden Daniels? I'm going to say fiction. And I watched the LSU pro day in his throwing session.

And I forgot which NFL network commentators were talking over it. But they pointed out like, oh, and this is credible. A lot of people that they've talked to in the league, and this is during Jaden Daniels Pro Day, were concerned about his velocity. And I didn't see that on film. That's not to say that I think he's, if you're ranking arm strength in 2024, once all these rookies are in the league, you would put him in the top five to seven in football because there are some freak arm talent guys at quarterback today. But he was one where, and again, there's some Josh Allen bias and watching Patrick Mahomes, where I think arm strength is vital today with how much zone coverage teams play, like 70%. Everyone's watching you. And without being these anticipation throwers,

you need to maybe see the guy get open. Everyone's ready to converge on that throw, and you need to be able to throw it 60, 70 miles per hour in there in some occasions. I didn't come away from Jaden Daniels' film thinking, ooh, his arm just doesn't do it for me. And Bryce Young's arm did not do it for me. To me, I don't think Joe

Burrow has a monster arm and he's been able to get it done I think Jaden Daniels is plenty uh has plenty of arm talent although I will say on the meter if we were doing this the other way and I agreed with it it is like an eight or a nine in terms of its importance I just think that's fiction yeah I think it's one of the most important things to reach a baseline and then be able to work with what you have, be very aware of what you have. So Nathan Peterman thought that he had a very strong arm. It turned out he didn't. And everyone just intercepted the passes. He's a prime example. He's a prime example that in Josh Allen's rookie year, which is so crazy to think that Nate Peterman started that season.

That's what happened. Like, yes, there were a few interceptions that were on tips, but it was like, oh, we're just going to play zone, and we're going to look to see where he's going to go, and then we're going to just click and close on the football, and he just did not have anywhere close to the velocity needed to be able to make those throws. So it matters, and I think Jane Daniels,

like you're saying is clearly at and above that baseline of how much arm strength, a NFL starting caliber quarterback needs to have. Yeah. If we were doing kind of tears of it, I would put his in like the Jalen hurts or a little above tier because I never thought Jalen hurts had an absolute cannon, but it's strong enough to get it into those windows and also good enough to

complete deep balls, get it 55 yards down the field to his receivers. So it matters. But I think that that might be mistaken for some of the technical elements of throwing on time, where if you weren't maybe perfect base kind of thing that some of the balls don't come out with the biggest velocity. i think that it's like a little it's a little more fiction than fact but it's like uh we'll put it in a separate category of truth to all rumors

as a shout out to stefan diggs that it's like there's there's some shade of truth to it that he does not have a canon uh the next criticism is we'll drop eyes in the pocket to scan for exits. So when there is things going on chaotic in the pocket, and this is a thing that if you do in the NFL, it will crush you. He brings his eyes away from the receivers, looking at the rush to try to find somewhere to escape. Is that fact or fiction on Jaden Daniels? Completely fact. And that is, we've talked about it. That is one of my biggest concerns with him.

And I do want to take this time to kind of say that I don't hate Jaden Daniels as a prospect. He's my number five overall player, I think in the right system or in the right situation, he can be that franchise changing quarterback, but we, because his film is so good and there's all the production and the Heisman and thrown to neighbors and Brian Thomas it's just been better for us to talk about his weaknesses because there aren't a lot and but they are a little scary that is one of them and you mentioned it that that can kill you in the NFL and that normally when I'm watching a quarterback and we're all looking for that improv stuff we were looking at it hey can cj stroud do it enough is he athletic enough i always look to see do the eyes stay up when they leave the pocket

and even and i'm going to continue to repeat about josh allen just because i've watched every single throw that he's made for as good as josh allen is as a runner he first keeps his eyes up he's looking for that long ball uh where it's kind of aramble drill. And he's hit so many of those in his career, Patrick Mahomes as well, Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott, Lamar Jackson, all very good at doing that. Jane Daniels tends to drop the eyes and go, I'm out of here. Maybe he does get to his second read, but then he's gone. And I think he did pass up some opportunities to just flick it to Malik neighbors or Brian Thomas ended up being a 50 yard run in the sec and the NFL though, that's not going to be as sustainable and happen as regularly as it did even

against the Alabamas and the Georges of the world. Hey, us cellular customers. I've got good news. So don't hit that skip forward button just yet. I'm talking about their special customer event, Us Days. What's Us Days? It means exclusive offers just for their customers, just to say thanks.

Like up to $1,200 to upgrade to any new phone. No, I didn't misread that. That's up to $1,200 off. They must really like you all. Us days at U.S. Cellular exclusive offers just for you, just to say thanks. Right now, U.S. Cellular customers get up to $1,200 to upgrade to any new phone. Terms apply. I think it's more of when there's some chaos up front like when someone's breaking through the

line a little bit that he brings it down like he's not escaping while looking to throw and there's not a lot i mean there is some but there's not a lot of those like oh i'm escaping scrambling scrambling and then there's the play down the field passing it's either run or pass which is exactly how again actually jalen hurts plays the same way you don't see jalen hurts doing the russell wilson where it's like scramble scramble scramble scramble 40 yard pass you don't see and alan does that mahomes though you don't see that same uh i think that it's like a seven or an eight as far as oh Oh, it's a very scary thing. Yeah,

it is. Uh, all right. Next one. Last one for, uh, Jaden Daniels, uh, his frame translates to a dire lack of play strength working through

tackles as a creator. So a lack of play strength because of his frame. Agree with that. I'm going to say mostly fiction. Uh, I mean, because of his frame agree with that i'm going to say mostly fiction uh i mean you're not really hoping and wanting your quarterback to be a big tackle breaker anyway um and i don't you've probably looked up if there's any pff study that's been done on this but i i've read things in the past and just from watching like anecdotally i would say this i think we need like the next push that we need to get from the, you know,

draft Twitter and NFL analytics, Twitter to get into mainstream. And there's been a lot of things like labeling guys, just edges, not three, four outside linebackers. That was a big thing like 10 years ago. It's so cool that that's like mainstream today, like on broadcast. A lot of, most of the injuries at quarterback happen when a quarterback gets hit inside the pocket. There's no, Oh, he runs. He's going to get injured. Like that's just not really what

happens. Now, maybe you totally feel different, but like watching the Jimmy Garoppolo's and the Kirk cousins and the Daniel Jones and the Carson Wentz, those are guys that can't to a tongue of my law. It didn't get hurt last year, but would usually get hurt inside the pocket so there's not for me like his size six three two ten he can add 10 to 15 pounds easily to that frame he's kind of spindly um and not lose any of that explosion i don't think like i'm worried about his lack of play strength to break tackles he's a very good creator of course because of how bendy and fluid and athletic he is, explosive he is when he's running with the football. There is a legitimate concern about Jaden Daniels injuring himself by the way that he plays with a reckless nature. And I think that the injury prone injury

prone is entirely up to the guy. I mean, do you hold onto the ball too long and take bad hits? Do you take risks when you're out there running? somebody who does and doesn't get hurt a lot is Josh Allen. He does take some risks in not going down, but Josh Allen is like 240 pounds. So he's got that Ben Roethlisberger layer of extra padding that he could take on and Dante call pepper the same way. Those guys could take on linebackers. Uh, Jaden Daniels is not taking on a linebacker. So, okay. That's not going to happen, but he's going to escape with his quickness. He's lightning, lightning quick. He's going to use that and he's not going to run through people. And if he does, then what's going to happen is the same stuff that happened to him in college sometimes where he got really popped. And so I think that it's like mostly fiction, but also there's

another part of his game that is a fact to it. Like if he plays reckless, he will get hurt because he is not 240 pounds. So I think if that's the point of the critique, then there is truth to that. Yes, I agree. And that's why I said mostly fiction, because what you just pointed out, and it's from my previous point about that most quarterbacks get injured inside the pocket it's when so last year to a tongue of iloa in the offseason he reportedly gained some weight because he's like i want to be able to absorb hits now he happened to stay healthy and great for him but to me i think long term if you're a, you want to try to be able to do everything you can to avoid getting hit as opposed to, I'm just going to beef up

and just take these shots from blitzing linebackers. I wouldn't even want to get hit from Ivan Pace, who is one of the smallest linebackers in the NFL. He's so stocky. So, yes, you're right that Jaden Daniels probably will take some big licks in the NFL, and the team that that drafted him probably is scared about that. But he's also going to avoid like 100 hits that a Tua or a Mac Jones would have absorbed either in the pocket or as they're escaping.

So it's mostly fiction, but there is some truth to it. Right. And like Lamar got hurt one year and then was healthy last year. And Jalen Hurts was healthy last year and uh jalen hurts was healthy and he's about as strong as anybody in the nfl that guy is a rock and then he got hurt last year and it really took apart his game uh when he couldn't move i mean i think with football in general and i also apply this a little bit to michael pennix takes like people get hurt in football there is no player who ever comes out of their career at

any position except for maybe kicker punter or long snapper and says no it was great it was fine i had no problems no surgeries uh just everything worked out fine i don't know what you guys are talking about this physical sport of football um so anyway uh let's move on to jj mccarthy some interesting ones here from mccarthy starting, quote, he fails to stand out in many of the areas that tend to be predictive of top level success in the NFL. This is a broad criticism. Is it fact or fiction that McCarthy, quote, fails to stand out in many of the areas that tend to be predictive of success at the top level in the NFL?

Well, of course, the first thing that pops into my head is like, what are those things? Apparently, is it accuracy? Is it arm strength? I would say with this one, it's mostly true in that because of two words, stand out. I wouldn't say, wow, he's really accurate. He stands out. Now, does that mean stand out in the game that he's playing in against Indiana or Wisconsin or Northwestern? Yes. Is it stand out traits compared to Drake Mayer,

Jaden Daniels, or Caleb Williams? I would say no. So I think in general that it's mostly true. I mean, how important it is, it's so general, it's kind of hard to say because I do think he does meet, like you mostly true. Well, I mean, how important it is, it's so general, it's kind of hard to say, because I do think he does meet, like you mentioned with arm strength, a lot of the baselines that you want. So I would put it right in the middle, like five or six in terms of importance that you would like to have the freak, the Justin Herbert type, the Josh Allen type,

but JJ McCarthy at least meets those standards, but standout, I don't think he does that. Yeah, I think that this one is uh very true and it's kind of the reason of my skepticism is that there isn't one tool you can look at and say oh my gosh watch this man throw that football or watch him run look how fast he is or whatever like that uh and when it comes to leadership, how much information you can handle and regurgitate out on the football field, those are things that might be his freak skill. But we don't actually know that because I didn't coach him and you didn't coach him. So that's Kevin O'Connell's job to figure out if that's actually his top skill. And I think that this sounds like maybe the harshest of criticisms that we're going to have

for anybody even and then we're saying it's true but i also think that there are other quarterbacks in the nfl where you would not say wow they have this one thing that blows your absolute mind but they execute their offense effectively and you're also thinking about developing some of the raw elements to where it does look more like that and And I think of his arm strength that way, like he clearly throws the ball super hard, but you're going to have to harness that a little bit more. And he's clearly very quick with his feet, but when do you take off? Are you going to make a difference at times in the NFL? You can, when they play man coverage and vacate the middle of the field. So are you going to ID that? I don't know if he is or not going to be able to do those things. So I think that there's areas where he can develop to

be above average. If you have a quarterback that has five or six areas where they're above average versus maybe one monster tool, that might be just as good. But I think that is the one thing that holds me back from saying, oh yeah, give up the farm for this player. Yeah. That last point, like you need to clip that and just keep that on social media, maybe pin it at the top of your profile on Twitter, because that is the book on JJ McCarthy that he it's, do you lean for the Justin Herbert, the Lamar Jackson, the Jaden Daniels that have like anyone, a 10 year old could watch and go, that guy's really fast. That guy has a really strong arm. J.J. McCarthy just kind of checks lightly all of those boxes that you want.

Good enough arm, accuracy's good, improvisation's good, a lot of experience, made some big throws in some key games, was never really the guy. That's really the biggest dilemma, and I think why everyone is so torn and there's so much polarizing opinion on J.J. McCarthy because we've leaned into even I have find the freak find the guy that can do that's huge that's really fast has a big arm when J.J. McCarthy might just be like a seven across the board and I think that can still be productive in today's NFL all right we are back to analyzing quarterbacks processing which again I think is very, very difficult to do.

And I am always a little bit on the hesitant side to say that unless someone looks totally lost at the line of scrimmage, but on JJ McCarthy, a credible draft analyst wrote quotes below average processing and timing on anything except for his first read. Is that something that you took note of with J.J. McCarthy at Michigan, or is that fiction? Mostly fiction. I think he is probably, again, he's not standout in that regard, that I wouldn't put him at number one,

but I wouldn't necessarily put him at number six if we're talking about six quarterbacks here as kind of, you know, first-round caliber. I saw him read the entire field now is he doing it on every single drive at Michigan no because sometimes he threw the ball like two times on a drive and you're like oh you didn't really get to see much from JJ McCarthy there but they scored a touchdown with 10 runs and two passes um and yeah processing for as much as I may, of course, like mention the football IQ, like if a guy's making bad decisions over and over again or hitting his check down quickly, I'll make note of that. But I try to lean away from like processing because we're not inside his helmet.

We can't see like he's like, oh, I'm peeking over here, but I need to go here in a second. I don't think it's a huge problem. And actually, remember like now, even in my head, kind of going through the, the, the film from McCarthy, there are a bunch of throws where it was, Oh, he kind of read that that safety drifted toward the sideline. So now that post is open and made some anticipation throw. So I think again, not stand out, but the anticipation or the processing for him is fine. So I'll say mostly fiction there.

And that, of course, is very important. It's just so hard to kind of pin down. I think that this one I would try to judge on. Does the guy do unexplainable stuff? That's the only thing that I can see. And I'll tell you, two guys who were top draft picks who did unexplainable stuff and did not work out, Jameis Winston and Sam Darnold and Sam Darnold still does when he plays unexplainable. I have no idea what you saw, why you threw that football, how you came to that conclusion,

because your brain clearly just doesn't work fast enough to be able to understand where you're supposed to put the football. And I don't see that with JJ McCarthy. I just see a lack of precision. That's my thing with McCarthy more than it is where he was throwing the football. Cause I never thought, Oh my God, dude, what? Like, I didn't think that a lot in JJ McCarthy's tape, maybe a couple of times in the Maryland game, but aside from that not, not as much. And I also think, look, here's a, here's an offshoot question that i think is very interesting

about jj mccarthy would you if you could draft jimmy garoppolo and put him on the minnesota vikings what jimmy garoppolo was at his best i think he's banged up he's not that good anymore but just was the best version of jimmy garoppolo could you put would you put that on the vikings if you could draft it fourth overall would you do that yes yes absolutely and and I'm not I mean again I've been leaning toward the bigger freakish athletes that's not Jimmy Garoppolo but like leaving New England going to San Francisco the first couple years I mean he was in a Super Bowl he was in another NFC title game and it wasn't like oh like the 49ers are winning in spite of Jimmy G every game. Like I'm sure there were some games where he had modest stat lines,

but when he was really at his best, like making smart decisions, being pretty accurate, but not like freaky athletic, not really having a standout trait, he was pretty good. I think a lot of fans would say no, that they don't want him. I would totally disagree with that. I would say 100%. And McCarthy's faster than Jimmy Garoppolo bigger but there I think there's similarities though between the two guys but if you could draft that guy on his rookie contract and there were times where he did stick too long on a read or he was inaccurate and not perfectly sharp but

he got the ball out to his playmakers on a stack team. You can win a lot of football games with that. It's not the absolute ideal of getting Patrick Mahomes, but it can put you in position to be great. And so I'm always interested in that because the other night there were people who were saying on my live stream, like, well, we'd rather have, you know, Bo Nix than Kyler Murray. And it was like, wait, wait, wait. No, I think you'd rather like, this just tells you the hype of quarterbacks in the draft and where the standards get pumped up to that. Even like someone like Jimmy Garoppolo, I think would be a thumbs down if that's what McCarthy became.

But I think that might be the best like comparison of what he can become. Yeah. And I think recency bias is a hell of a drug and it's it's real so you're like thinking jimmy garoppolo kyler murray but like in their primes like young healthy not banged up uh operating at their highest processing let's say yes you would take kyler murray on this vikings team you would take Kyler Murray on this Vikings team. You would take, I think, Jimmy Garoppolo. But for as much as I think I get what you're saying about like production-wise, J.J. McCarthy and Jimmy G like stylistically are not crazy similar in my opinion.

You get more obviously improvisation with J.J. McCarthy. But, yes, there are similarities between the two. And at number four, again, in this but i kind of have started to call like an insulated environment um you have to think that the vikings could get with everything that they have all the different reasons why they could get the most out of a quarterback you would be fine with jj mccarthy if you told me that the commanders were picking him i would go i don't know for sure totally different i don't but this situation is just different it just is uh all right so bo nicks and michael pennix will go through a little quicker because we have our bust comps a yearly tradition where we give our comparisons for the quarterbacks to if they're

going to bust they will be like player x i absolutely love some of mine so i can't wait to get to that but with uh bo nix the criticism here from Factor Fiction inconsistent toughness in the pocket shows good flashes but too often falls away from throws is that fact or fiction of Bo Nix so the beginning of that I was going to say fiction but there are times like he's kind of like a fadeaway thrower and what's ironic is we saw like Drake May do that at his pro day to kind of show these like what like one leg like Dirk Nowitzki type throws is still to show I think how strong his arm is but the end of that I would say mostly true I think he's strong in the pocket like I was never questioning his toughness or his athleticism

or his ability to take a hit but there are a few times where Bo Nix and maybe more than everyone else in this class, probably more than everyone else, kind of does that, like kind of fades away and maybe trust his arm a little bit too much to not take that hit. really matter but he doesn't have that capability to really crank the rpms when fading away which is you know most offensive coordinators are not going to be happy when they're young quarterbacks doing that in a game and i think a few of his throws that are really fun on college tape are picked off for pick sixes 98 times out of 100 basically they're not in the back 12 right if the safety catches that he's going all the way because there are these like well he's rolling this way and he kind of does a jump fade or whatever kind of like when uh your video game doesn't really react right to the how you're pushing the button or you hold it down too long and the guy just turns or if you push the wrong button you mean to throw someone in front of you and you throw a cross so he turns and just

whips it like a crazy person like that's kind of what bo nicks does sometimes and he has to not do that i think that is a legitimate criticism as well as and we'll move to to pennix quick i i thought this one was as well doesn't have elite drive velocity when he pushes passes into the deep third yep that's true and i think both of these things are probably pretty big criticisms that are deserved uh now on to pennix okay the fastest quarterback in the league michael pennix after he ran his 40 and ran uh somewhere between four five and four six a really good pro day for him to show that he is an athlete and sometimes a guy uses his athleticism more in the NFL. And sometimes pocket quarterbacks are good athletes.

They just don't know how to use it. So I think that's probably the latter with Penix. But that's my commentary. Here's an expert who said, quote, he is a one-speed thrower, can only throw line drives, struggles to add arc and touch to the football. Fact or fiction on Michael Penick's one speed throw. Mostly fiction that I think there's just so many fastballs that needed to be

fastballs. Cause he threw like a million passes the last two years at Washington, you get through a few games and you're like, man, like it felt like most of his throws were fastballs, but the amount of downfield long balls that he threw to a dunes a and Jalen Polk and Jalen McMillan. I, I don't remember coming away thinking,

man, he doesn't have touch. Now I did come out of his film thinking he wasn't quite as accurate as it felt like he was just watching him during the season as a fan. I was like, Oh, there were a couple of misses and maybe at times you're like, oh, maybe that could have been feathered in there a little softer.

But I don't think he has the inability to drop it in the bucket down the field that it's always just going to hit the side of the bucket. So I think that's mostly fiction, but not the greatest touch thrower that I've ever scouted. Yeah, I think that if you were running an offense that ran a lot of slants over the middle of the field that you wouldn't necessarily like him because I don't think he has that flawless sort of touch and leading guys on those underneath,

like those underneath routes, slants, stuff like that. That's not what the Vikings do a whole heck of a lot. They like the more downfield stuff, but when he would, when you'd have somebody coming heck of a lot. They like the more downfield stuff. But when you'd have somebody coming out of a double move and he would have to throw with anticipation

and guide that ball over the defense. Over the corner, yeah. Yeah, I saw a lot of that. I saw a lot of touch. It was like the farther he threw down the field, the more touch there was with his ball. But there were times definitely where I thought, all right, that's a simple comeback route,

and you do need to drive the ball. But he would throw it so hard it would go too high or something like that. And I mean, that's like to me getting far into the weeds of someone who is fantastic at throwing the football. So I'm going to go. All of Penix's concerns are not regarding throwing the football for me. Yeah, seriously. The other stuff. So let's wrap the show on a yearly tradition every year because everybody, when they do comps,

they compare them to, and I've done this this year. Hey, you know, Jane Daniels is Randall Cunningham and Drake May is Matthew Stafford or Eli Manning. Well, let's go the opposite. Instead of saying

they're going to be nothing but wonderful. What if they don't work out? and then what does that reveal to us about these prospects so let us begin with Caleb Williams what is your bust comparison for Caleb Williams this one I when I wrote this so I did this article for CBS Sports last week after we kind of teased it in last week's episode um when i wrote it initially i was like oh this is kind of far-fetched but it's actually i think spot on johnny manziel i think it has to be johnny manziel now do i think that caleb williams is going to like never open his ipad with his playbook and be partying during the week i don't think that but we've talked about this off air that I think like the one maybe concern is like, not that he doesn't care like Johnny Manziel seemingly didn't and just wants to be a superstar,

but maybe some of just, let's just categorize it as like off field character stuff with like not being happy with the situation, whatever. And just their play styles are very similar. Now, Johnny Manziel was not as physically gifted as a thrower, but in terms of running around and reversing his field nine times in the SEC and terrorizing the SEC, Johnny Manziel did a lot of really awesome stuff at a high level in college football. So I think it's got to be Johnny Manziel for me, for the bus comp for Caleb Williams. I thought of the same one and I figured that you were going to think of that. So I tried to go a different direction because it is very good because look, if you can't handle some of the heat of playing in the NFL and you don't have the dedication, which I don't know, I mean, we're going to find out because everybody says they do going in and then we see,

but the scrambling around that looks so much fun in college football does not always translate. It translates for one guy, and that is Patrick Mahomes. And I don't know how many other guys that really has ever worked for. So I think that's right. But I was trying to, there's a, like, Jamarcus Russell is such a cliche to bring up. It's just like, oh, he's the next Jamarcus Russell or something. The way in which he'd be similar next jamarcus russell or something the way in which he'd be similar to jamarcus russell is the hype is that it's just if he were to go bust it

would be on the same level and i'm not saying for the same reasons it would be on the same level of this guy is untouchable has unbelievable generational tools and then it just didn't work out so i thought of that it's almost too cliche to compare people to jamarcus russell so i also thought of sam darnold at usc where the physical ability is so impressive the hype is so so high the arm talent is so high and it was really the mistakes that defined sam darnold and i thought last year caleb, Caleb Williams had a lot of mistakes as well, especially when pressure ramped up. He was one of the lowest graded quarterbacks by PFF under pressure. And that's how Sam Darnold is under pressure. He kind of freaks out and does crazy stuff.

And I thought the same thing with Caleb Williams. So that's my, um, bus comp for him. How about Drake may mine might be a tad controversial with Drake May of whether this guy is actually a bust or not, but I'll let you go first with Drake May. With Drake May, which, by the way, for Caleb Williams, to mention the hype I think is a little different of how I approach this. I was kind of looking more stylistically, but those are good, Jamarcus Russell and Sam Darnold, because the hype was through the roof for both of those players.

And, yes, if Caleb Williams is just bad with the Bears and is just like on a different team, it will be, you'll see like top 20 NFL bust in history. Like that will be up. Like he'll be close to Jamarcus Russell at the top. For Drake May, I'm going with Blake Bortles from UCF that similar body types, like bigger. Blake Bortles kind of had a weird delivery coming out of UCF, but was pretty athletic. He was used like he was part of that, you know, RPO, like zone read,

when that was kind of the trendy kind of offensive philosophy coming from college to the NFL, ran the football a lot, big body. And then like had the one season where he threw like 35 touchdowns and had a bunch of interceptions that year too. Gets very close to being in a Super Bowl which is insane to think of that we almost had a Nick Foles Blake Bortles Super Bowl that year um and then ultimately it was like oh yeah he's kind of not really that good at all and he was kind of buoyed by the defense in Jacksonville not like a colossal like next to Jamarcus Russell type bust, but he was like

the third overall pick in the 2014 draft. So Drake May is probably going to get picked right there as well. Stylistically, college careers, the size, I just felt I had to go with Blake Bortles for Drake May. Folks, if you don't know what a VPN is, you might actually need one and not even realize it. If you already know the positives, you also might not be using the right product. In either case, you want to check out Surfshark. VPNs keep your information safe and anyone who tries to track what you're doing online will not be able to do so if you are using Surfshark. IP addresses, what you're searching, what games you're playing, or what shows you're streaming will belong to you and you only. Plus, if you use a VPN, you can virtually travel the world from the comfort of your own home.

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You heard me right, three extra months for free. That is surf shark dot deals slash purple insider. Yeah. I like that. Uh, the size for sure. And like the raw talent of Blake Bortles, the guy could have been a star, but it just did not work out. And, uh, with Drake May though, here's the, I'll say this is a tad controversial. Jay Cutler is my bust comparison. And Jay Cutler became a very highly paid franchise-ish quarterback for the Chicago Bears. Never had a lot of success really with Chicago and Denver was done with him personality wise, probably more than anything, but Denver was done with him for a couple years. He did not have a winning season with Denver.

If you take someone as a first-round draft pick and they are so reckless and wild with the football that you're moving on after a couple years, and this is not to say anything of Drake Mays' personality, it's really about how he plays because Jay Cutler had one of the ultimate arms in the NFL. When it was at his best, it was unbelievable. But he also, we talked earlier about those wild throws.

And we mostly said, well, I don't know if it's that huge of a concern. But if you don't ever get rid of it, then it is at times. And that's, I think, whether it's a true, true bust or not, probably not for Jay Cutler but still like a 500 type quarterback that's not what you're hoping for when you draft someone at the top so that's what I'm going for with Drake May yeah that's a good one uh just because of the kind of erratic tendencies that kind of grew from Jay Cutler throughout his career and if they are a slight problem early with Drake May and then suddenly it's like,

oh man, there was like three or four in that game. And one was picked off in crunch time. Then yes, I could certainly see that. That's a good one. All right. For Jade and Daniels,

I'll just give you mine. I'm not as proud of it. It's just harder with runners because history doesn't have a lot of drafted runners. And a lot of them that were drafted actually were great. So I went with Marcus Mariota. Is that lazy? Is lazy is that too simple no i think that's pretty good um i think with him uh he kind of never felt like i would kind of compare him to ej manual that they never were like assertive enough they always and that's not saying like rah rah like in their teammates face

on the sideline but just as throwers as runners runners, like they – you look at E.J. Manuel, it was like 6'5", 235, tested very well. Marcus Mariota tested through the roof, ran all over the field in the Pac-12. But it was like in the NFL, he was just never really taking risks and never really leaned on his legs. E.J. Manuel was the same way. He was part of that zone read trend as well and like would never take the ball. Like he never wanted to have the ball on his legs. EJ Manuel was the same way. He would, he was part of that zone read trend as well. And like would never take the ball. Like he never wanted to have the ball in his hands.

I think athletically because Marcus Mariota was really, really talented as a runner. And we thought he was going to be like the next RG three never really materialized. I think that's a good one for Jane Daniels too. Yeah. I just think that the worst element of Jane Daniels being the sacks, I think that was a problem with Mariota, not necessarily keeping your eyes down field. And if you can't just dominate people with your receivers and with your legs in the same way that you do in college, do you have another answer? And the big stats, like that was another thing too, that Mariota had these incredible stats. Daniels did that last year.

So it's, it's not my favorite one, but I think it works. Who did you have? So I kind of already called it out. It's RG3. I think size, speed, taking big shots in the open field that RG3's injury avalanche kind of started.

He got hit by Haloti Nada at home against the Ravens late in his rookie season and like kind of his knee kind of snapped forward like overextended and then obviously they just kind of compounded after that where he was just taking too many big hits I think the FedEx field turf didn't really help him necessarily great downfield thrower at college or in college throwing to kendall right who was a first round pick josh gordon was there for a year um it was like man he can just drop it in the bucket all day we will find out how good of a downfield thrower jayden daniels is because he's not going to throw to guys that have malik neighbors and brian thomas type advantages over

their cornerbacks that are covering them in the NFL, most likely. I mean, I said that about Tua, and then he gets Tyreek Hill and Jalen Waddell. But I just think size, length, speed, like there's that famous zone read that RG3 ran like an 80-yard touchdown late in the season for Washington to kind of propel them into the playoffs. I could see Jay Daniels having one of those runs as a rookie too, or like, oh man. And like, you remember at that time,

it was like, RG three was the biggest rock, like more than Tom Brady. It felt like he was like the biggest rock star in the league. Like this guy's revolutionizing the sport more than Michael Victor, because he's a great thrower. And then it just never really happened because he, the spatial awareness that we sometimes that we've talked about in this

episode and others, Jane Daniels like doesn't really have it similar to how RG three didn't have it. And he took way too many hits and I think it shattered his confidence. Oh, I definitely think so. And when the explosiveness wasn't the same, he wasn't the same,

but I think even EJ manual, when he had that knee injury, his confidence went down as well. But yeah, I think that's the most clear cut because if he works out, he could be the best version of what RG3 could have become. All right, for McCarthy, this is my favorite one. This is one I worked hard on.

I'm excited for this. I put a lot of effort into because one of the things that's hard to find is guys who are drafted this high that don't have that one special skill. It is actually really hard. Or big stats. It's really hard to find that.

So I went back and I scrolled and I hunted and I discovered a winner at a very successful university with a NFL caliber head coach, early 2000s. Can you guess where I'm going? Doesn't have a huge skill and is drafted in the top five. Early, early 2000s. Like, are we going like closer to actually the year 2000 or like? Closer to the year 2000.

Yeah. I'm going to, okay. I mean, this is probably not right, but the one that pops out to me, Joey Harrington. That's a good try. It is Mark Sanchez. Mark Sanchez, the Sanchez. Yep.

And I think if he goes bust, it's going to be because he doesn't have a cheat code, which Mark Sanchez never really had either. And the whole thing was like, well, he's NFL, head on his shoulders and that sort of thing. But he never had athleticism that totally wowed you arm strength that totally wowed you and the whole processing. How does he run an offense? All that stuff. It never really came to fruition.

It did at times. And he had his moments. He wasn't a horrendous NFL quarterback, but he just never got over that hump and maybe circumstance played into it. Rex Ryan wanted to run the football and all that sort of stuff protect the ball uh but i think if it doesn't go right for jj mccarthy it will look something like that and there's a funny story that i have it was like embedded in my brain forever when mark sanchez he did not have the big stats and he was a redshirt sophomore when he came out in that 2008 or 2009 draft that they interviewed Pete Carroll.

And, you know, you're expecting every coach at the time to say, oh, he's great. If you can still find that on YouTube, Pete Carroll like came out and was like, I think he left too early. He's not ready for like literally to assembled media. And it was like, oh, my. And maybe at the time, everyone's like, oh, what does he say? He's just mad that he's not getting his star quarterback back but then right as Mark Sanchez was like oh he's not really the guy it was like instead of just Jim Harbaugh saying oh I think J.J. or uh that like J.J. McCarthy is the best quarterback in this class Pete Carroll literally

at USC at the time as the head coach said the opposite about Mark Sanchez and was like he should have stayed which that I'll never forget that I thought that was like incredible that a head coach of a major program said that I I like that comparison a lot because like we talked about earlier we said it was fact that J.J. McCarthy does not have that standout wow trait and usually the guys we always talk about in the first round corners wide receivers edge rushers like those are the freaks they were pretty good in college round two guys aren't quite as athletic but they were really good in college so usually when you're that high it's the same for quarterbacks you have something that stand out and JJ McCarthy doesn't necessarily have

that and you mentioned the stats I didn't even remember to bring that up but that was a big part of my comp when I was looking back I was, what were Mark Sanchez's college stats? It's like, oh, he won a lot of football games, but they didn't actually have big numbers from him similar to with McCarthy. And it was all about, well, what he can be, what he's going to grow into and maybe, uh, maybe a cautionary tale, or maybe it won't ultimately end up meaning anything. Who did you have for McCarthy? All right.

Yours. I mean, that one is really good. that was a name that it kind of escaped me uh so yours is better than mine but I'm going with Christian Ponder now Christian Ponder kind of had the opposite he had you can't do that on this show you can't go with Christian Ponder on this show you're gonna terrify people I have to because I think to kind of uh segue from that Pete Carroll story that Jimbo Fisher was like oh he's just so smart he's such a great leader he's and that was in the era of the pro style offense and it was you know he you know can be under center he can do play action eye formation um very smart with the football, great leader. He kind of like on the surface checked all the boxes. And then during that draft process, I remember it like, Hey,

this guy could go relatively early because offensive coordinators are going to love him. And everything that we gathered from the combine was, Oh yeah. Like the league is the league is so much higher on JJ McCarthy than maybe the media is because when you meet him, he's just so smart. He had the NFL caliber head coach in Jim Harbaugh kind of teaching him. Christian Ponder was a multi-year starter just like J.J. McCarthy. I think the athleticism was somewhat similar that Christian Ponder, look at his combine, was very good coming out

and did make some plays outside of the pocket at Florida State, but never really leaned on it, kind of like Marcus Mariota in the NFL. And maybe there's a world where J.J. McCarthy tries it in week one and gets smacked by a 270-pound edge rusher who runs a 4.5 and is like, oh, I'm not going to really try that anymore. That's kind of what happened. I mean, you probably know and your fans know more about the intricacies of why it didn't work for Christian Ponder, but from afar as an analyst that like, those are the things that I remember why Christian

Ponder was so well-liked and went inside the top 15 and then ultimately why it didn't work out for him in the NFL. Yeah. I think when you're selling on, Hey, this guy's a winner. Hey, this guy, you know, is going to be able to run your offense, big program. Like, I don't know, Ben Roethlisberger went to Miami, Ohio. So like, it's just the Patrick Mahomes went to Texas tech, like these Wyoming for Josh Allen. Like that doesn't always mean a whole heck of a lot. And honestly, the quarterbacks from the bigger universities, just thinking off the top of my head have not always been very successful i mean even recently mac jones uh not not too successful coming from alabama of course cj stroud from ohio state but there was that ohio state thing like oh well you know

right exactly so um but anyway i think that's i think that's a solid comp even though it's the last one i'm glad that we buried it late in the show. Uh, hopefully everyone shut it off first before you made it, but I can see what you're talking about. And sometimes it's all about how it turns out. If you take Christian ponder and you put them in the circumstances, the Vikings have now, does he turn out more confident? And a lot of it is confidence belief. Can you really be that guy? And if you get smacked in the mouth early, that can, that can hurt, uh, for Bo Nix. I went into my bag here and I got Brian Brom because he really only had one great year in college. And because when he was in college, there was a lot of discussion about, Hey, this Brian

Brom guy, he's like really taking this big step forward at Louisville he's going to be a top draft pick and then he was like a second rounder and he never did a thing so that could be the case for Bona if he's a bust he's probably a second rounder and he just never does a thing yeah that's the one that um for Bo Nix that I had too and that I remember there being like could Brian Br Brown be like a top 10 pick in that draft class? And it was like, Oh, maybe not. And I think on the field, they kind of like were similar that Brian Brown had a, had a lot of downfield strikes that those Louisville teams were really good when he was there. Surprisingly, it was like, Oh, Louisville's like on the map as

a college football program again. So i think that's a really good one that's the one that i was leaning toward wasn't he ultimately like a second round pick yeah right that was part of my thought process actually exactly that that yeah early on in the process and i'm not going to say that i totally remember the brian prom pre-draft process but i do remember there being some he could be a first round or maybe he's going to eventually be the best quarterback in this class and then as the draft approach it kind of fizzled out i could there being some, he could be a first rounder. Maybe he's going to eventually be the best quarterback in this class. And then as the draft approach, it kind of fizzled out. I could see that. I mean, all it would take would be for the Broncos to pick him at 12 and that's not the case, but I

really think that it's most realistic that it fizzles out similarly to Brian Brom. And it's, oh yeah, he's like one of the first five or six picks in the second round. And we'll see where he kind of goes from there. And with Michaelael pennix i went back and forth between two guys and uh if i'm not mistaken i think they played for the same university i was trying to decide between brandon whedon and mason rudolph uh because i mean there was discussion with mason rudolph of oh this guy could be a first round pick there were some people that really liked him. Look at the numbers he put up. It's crazy. He put up all these numbers and he's got this big arm and then he was picked in the third round. He's been a career backup. I could see that for Michael Penix. I really got, I think that he's better than that.

I think that he's a lot better than that. That's from me watching and me just thinking about these guys, but also there were we're talking about credible draft analysts there were credible draft analysts who thought yeah mason rudolph should be a first round pick and uh he wasn't so uh but his numbers his size his arm strength they were all checking boxes but he had no playmaking element and no matter how fast pennix runs as a 40 i'm still going to question whether he can actually make plays because those are two very different things. All right.

So mine is not technically a boss, but when I look back at him and think in my head, I still kind of view him as a boss relative to the hype and where he was picked. And this is another Vikings one. How about Sam Bradford? And I feel like you've kind of compared Penix to Bradford just overall, like for real comparison, which I think is still a very good one but in that draft class I'll never forget

this too that Todd McShay on ESPN at the time was like he has the highest grade I've ever given a quarterback the accuracy is through the roof he throws with a lot of velocity he's aggressive he's assertive he'll take a hit and just get back up and make another throw. Now, he was a little bit frail in college. Michael Penix dealt with a bunch of injuries early in his college career and was kind of damaged or kind of his damaged goods, I guess. I mean, he ultimately passed these physicals, but to have torn ACLs and shoulders, he's coming into the league with some wear and tear on his body like Sam Bradford did with the shoulder injury that he had at Oklahoma. Wins the rookie of the year, so that would kind of automatically discount him from being a bust, but he never quite lived up to the hype of the highest graded quarterback that Todd McShay ever

had. And in the right scenarios in Minnesota, I think in Philadelphia one year, of course, early with the Rams, he was just throwing darts all over the field and you're like you would finish a game and be like man like that was impressive then the next week for three straight weeks you would have 180 yards at five yards per attempt with three picks and you're like how did that same quarterback do that I could see Michael Penix in the right scenario being like great Sam Bradford and then also like oh he can't really move and he takes too many hits and he's too aggressive as a thrower. So I went with Sam Bradford for Michael Penix. Yeah, I mean, his career was so derailed by those injuries and that could very well happen to Michael Penix as well.

I mean, if he has those same problems at the NFL level, I don't know how to predict that, but if he does, it could ruin his career. So if you're saying what could take him down, certainly injuries could take him down. The only thing that I think is different about their style of play that would make him a different type of bust. And you really touched on this was Bradford, his aggressiveness would, I think, wane. Like in certain games, he would really trust his arm and it would be like, whoa, he is just putting on a laser show. And then other games he would average, like you said, like five yards attempt. And it was just check down, check down.

Like Kyle Rudolph put up an incredible season in 2016. And I know the line was bad, but it was just, it'd be third and seven, like get three yards on a check down to Kyle Rudolph. And I remember looking at this and I don't have the stat on the tip of my tongue, but it was something like on third down, he targeted Rudolph 41 times and got like 10 first downs or something. Oh my Lord. That's not Michael Penix.

You're right. No, that's not Michael Penix. So I think that Penix's mentality, assuming in the NFL, is going to be, regardless of where he plays, very aggressive, very like self-belief and so forth. But as far as could the injuries take apart a guy with a monster arm who's a pocket quarterback, yeah, I think that's a really good comp. So our yearly tradition of draft comp busts, that's that.

And of course, you just, you had to go there. People are going to call for you to be banned from the show with the Christian Ponder. They're never going to allow you back in the room. So anyway, but I see your point. Chris Trapasso, great stuff, man. We'll talk again next week and we will be a step closer to finding out what happens with the Minnesota Vikings.

Maybe by then we will know if they're going to make this big trade up or not. We're recording a podcast, so we're trying to podcast it into existence, I guess. So thanks again, as always, for this epic episode, Chris, and we'll do it again very soon. Football. Football.