Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Radio Row Buzz: Everyone thinks the Vikings are moving on from Kirk Cousins

Episode Date: February 6, 2024

Matthew Coller and Manny Hill talk about what folks on Radio Row at the Super Bowl have been asking Matthew as he promotes his book and talks Vikings with different radio stations. Plus we look at some mock draft research that shows where Michael Penix, JJ McCarthy and Bo Nix are scheduled to go and what that means. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here, live from Las Vegas, inside my hotel room at Circa, where I've stayed a number of times, and just got done after a long day of book promotion. So I have been lugging around copies of this bad boy here, Football is a Numbers Game, my book, and I was on a very long list of radio stations. Thanks to my friend at XM Sirius, Matt Stopski, who booked me for a bunch of spots. So I was on. How about this, Manny? You'll appreciate this with Ed McCaffrey and Solomon Wilcots this morning to start it out,

which was great. I said to Ed McCaffrey, I was like, Hey, is Howard Griffith and Byron Chamberlain showing up? And he was like, do you know those guys? And I was like, no, like, I don't know. Like he was a little confused, but, uh, it was really great to meet him. And let me tell you, after shaking his hand, I totally understand why he caught all those passes. I don't understand how his son is so short, but I do understand how the man has these giant mitts and caught everything. So that was cool. I went on green Bay radio twice. I was on in Denver, Tennessee sports grid radio and other, et cetera. So then tomorrow I got to be out of my hotel room at about five 45 in the morning

to go on with Ross Tucker, former Cleveland Brown and Buffalo bill on XM radio. And then there's a whole host of, uh, radio hits. Oh, I did NBC in Boston. And that's actually where I got the idea for what we were going to talk about tonight, Manny, which was, uh, NBC Boston, uh, their host, Phil Perry, who is a beat writer, real good dude. He asked me if Kirk Cousins was a good fit for the New England Patriots. And I said, no, I don't think he's a good fit at all for the New England Patriots. But you know what a theme was from Radio Row today, Manny? It was that every radio hit I did, and they all know that I cover the Vikings as well.

Every radio hit was like, so Kirk Cousins isn't coming back, right? Nobody could make any sense of any reason why from their outside perspective, from the perspective of a Green Bay host, a Boston host, a Tennessee host, Denver, why the Vikings would bring back Kirk Cousins.

And I guess as we've gone along, I've felt more that he will be playing somewhere else. But I also thought it was interesting that just other people in the industry believe that he's going to use his free agency to sign with the best team possible. And that's not this team so uh your reaction yeah it's interesting it's it's always fascinating to get you know a more national perspective on you know what's happening with the local team i mean a lot of times you know we turn on local radio and people speculate and they have conversations local podcasts etc etc but you know it's not very often that we get to get a perspective from people that are sort of outside the market you know in other

in other cities and they kind of get a chance to look at the vikings from afar and just kind of formulate their own opinions you know the a lot of the espn daily shows they don't talk about the vikings a lot unless they're like in the playoffs going on a deep run or something like that, which we haven't seen in quite a while. It's always really interesting to see what other people outside of the Twin Cities and Minnesota that kind of have this opinion that you and I have had about this situation, that it makes more sense for Kirk Cousins to go and play somewhere else with a team that might be in a better position to contend and try and compete for a championship right now. So I'm not terribly shocked by that. You just kind of wonder if locally the perspective will, you know,

if a lot of the local people here who have been, you know, speculating on, well, we're bringing Kirk back on this kind of contract and what will it look like and that sort of thing, if the outsider perspective will you know change some minds maybe i don't know it'll be it'll be interesting to see how this kind of plays out though over the next uh over the next uh several weeks as we get closer to uh the new calendar year yeah i don't think that uh the tennessee radio hosts are are going to push the Vikings, um, to, uh, do, you know, move on from cousins. No, I'm just kidding. But I also, I do think that, you know, sometimes when

you get another opinion from the outside perspective, it kind of like makes me think I'm not taking crazy pills. You know what I mean? Like, am I, am I nuts for thinking this? And then everyone says, all right, well, like, isn't Kirk going to Atlanta? And, you know, Ben asks, um, which team do we think that Kirk would like to play for? Atlanta seems to be by far and away where everyone thinks he's going. I had numerous people ask me about Zach Robinson because I wrote about Zach Robinson in my book that he had worked for Pro Football Focus, and then that's how he got the job with the Los Angeles Rams. Now he's going to be the offensive coordinator for the Atlanta Falcons, but it just seems like since Raheem Morris and Zach Robinson are there, that's even a better fit than if it was Bill Belichick, where maybe Kirk was saying he wouldn if it was Bill Belichick where maybe Kirk was saying, you know,

he wouldn't turn down Bill Belichick just out of respect for the man and all of his rings. But I don't know that he's a great fit for Bill Belichick. I do think he's a really good fit for Zach Robinson, a former quarterback who would run a really similar system with really similar language that he could drop right into. And then there's the other thing that's like his wife is from Atlanta or something. I don't know how much of a factor that would actually be, or if that matters, like I'm from Buffalo, but I'm not going back for a job. Like, so I don't know if that's always a connection we need to make. Um, but you know, Atlanta is in a position. I was talking to

somebody who's kind of, I guess I could say in the know about Atlanta and they're in a position to win now, like win right away, uh, with Raheem Morris, a guy who has had coaching up multiple coaching opportunities now is this is his second head coaching gig, but he's been with Kyle Shannon. He's been as a part of that tree and they bring him back to Atlanta. And I don't think that they're in a position where they're saying, all right, Raheem, you got five years. Let's slowly turn this bus around. This is a team that fired its head coach because they thought they should have been winning already this year. And there's going to be a ton of pressure, um, to, to win right now there, which to me points much more toward Kirk cousins. And I was talking with the new England Patriots reporter, just about how, like, if you, why would anyone sign Kirk

that wasn't in a win now window? And that includes the Vikings. It definitely includes England Patriots. I mean, they have no offense. The way the Vikings have no defense, they have no offense whatsoever. So I do think like right now, the odds and the arrows are sort of pointing in that direction. And every interview Kirk Cousins does, every single one, it pushes me a little bit more toward he wants to hit free agency because he was doing another one the other day. And I know that interviews again, just like where his wife is from is not great evidence, but we're trying to parse through anything we've got here, Manny. And he's talking about like, yeah, I guess we'll see what happens in March. I guess we'll see what happens in March.

So basically I'm not signing an extension until I find out what else is out there for me. And then I'll come back if nobody else is all that interested. And I saw Brad Spielberger today on radio row for PFF, and he's been kind of promoting the idea of Kirk to the Pittsburgh Steelers. To me, those two teams, Manny, just make by far the most sense for where Kirk could go much more than coming back here. Yeah. I mean, you just look at where, where those franchises are at right now in relation to the Vikings. I mean, you know, the Vikings are not, you know, they're not one of the worst teams in the NFL. There's, there's still a lot of talent on this roster, but you know, when you just talk about what, what the Vikings need to get back into contention there's a lot of work that needs to be done you know you've got a there's draft picks there's

uh free agency that that needs to you know those there's holes on the roster that need to be addressed basically um when you look at you know a team like pittsburgh a team like atlanta you just look at those teams and you say if if they just had better quarterback play, they'd be right there in the conversation with a lot of other teams in the NFL. Atlanta, especially when you factor in where that division is with the NFC South, that thing's going to be, especially if Baker Mayfield leaves the Buccaneers, that division is really going to be up in the air. And there's an opportunity for Atlanta to kind of grab a hold of that division and take it over with a veteran quarterback who's been very productive. You know, they've got good pieces on defense. They've got really good weapons, young, talented weapons that, you know,

I think are ready to kind of emerge and take that next step. Atlanta doesn't really have time to sit around and wait for another young quarterback to develop. They could go that route if they wanted to. If somebody slipped to them at eight and they wanted to take a chance on a young guy, sure, I don't think anybody would really fault them for doing that. But when you look at what they have on offense, it just makes perfect sense to drop in a good veteran quarterback in there and see where that takes you. It just seems like it makes a lot of sense. And Pittsburgh's kind of the same way where you've got young, talented weapons on offense. You've got a really good defense. You have a culture there of winning where there's a standard. There's a different standard for the Pittsburgh Steelers than there is for a lot of other teams in the NFL.

So the thought is you drop in a veteran quarterback there and you go forward. So it just seems to make the most sense for both of those teams. And with Kirk, Kirk I mean how many quarterbacks Matthew do we see get a chance to hit free agency like twice in their career with an opportunity to like make big money both times you know what I mean we see older guys you know get get cut from different teams and they you know they sign you know really friendly deals and that sort of thing because they just want to win.

But Kirk's got a chance to make some pretty good money in the offseason again if he so chooses. And that's going to be twice now in his career that he's had that opportunity. A lot of guys don't get that shot. And if you're Kirk, why wouldn't you want to take that opportunity? Well, Manny, it's not about the dollars. It's what the dollars represent which i want to

fit into every podcast i also want alchemists to make a beat out of that and just mix that in uh to a like an old school chorus where it's a freestyle and then the the chorus is just alchemist doing his thing or dj premiere, maybe some people understand what I'm saying. So, uh, this is, this is like mildly interesting. Um, I didn't think of this angle, but, uh, Arthur blank being 85 years old probably is not into drafting a quarterback and slow playing someone else. I'm sorry. I lost it. Oh, here it is.. I was talking about Justin Fields. Would you rather have Kirk or Justin Fields when it comes to the, the Atlanta Falcons? And I think the answer is probably Kirk because Justin Fields isn't good.

That's a big part of it. He's I think. Okay. Not the worst quarterback I've ever seen be a bust and not be resigned by his team or be traded by his team or be traded by his team. But with Kirk, you don't have to give up draft capital, which is a good point. Alexander makes, you just give him money. And as long as that money represents enough respect for him, then he's your quarterback. Like you don't have to trade your first round pick. You can

draft somebody in that top 10 who can help you right away, whether it's another weapon, which would be kind of wild, but probably on the defensive side, you look at the cornerbacks coming out in this draft. If you're Atlanta, you're probably like not thrilled to have played Jeff Akuda last year. And you'd really like to have, you know, another cornerback there. So you could see them wanting that, but also with Justin Fields, Zach Robinson comes from a McVay tree, which not a lot of those guys have mobile quarterbacks or quarterbacks that they design an entire run game around. It's usually the Kirk cousins like pocket quarterback that those guys are working with. I don't know if that's a factor for someone like Zach Robinson or not. Maybe he thinks

he's brilliant and could fix Justin Fields. I don't know. that's a factor for someone like Zach Robinson or not. Maybe he thinks he's brilliant and could fix Justin Fields. I don't know. But Kirk being a proven commodity makes more sense to me. Mark asks, have you seen the rumors of the Chargers sending Herbert to the Bears for their first round pick? No, I haven't. And it's hard to say with rumors what rumors rumors are real and what were like made up by a fake account. Um, so maybe you can tell me where that came from, but if I'm the Chicago bears

or the chargers, I kind of love it either way. The chargers cap is totally screwed. And I don't think they're going to be more than just an average team with Justin Herbert. They have a lot of weaknesses on their roster and the bears are ready to win now after all this tanking. And if you put Justin Herbert, you've got all that cap space you've saved up. Talk about a proven commodity. Let them draft Caleb Williams. You take Justin Herbert.

We all talk about the trade for 10 years. Like it's super juicy. And if you're a Vikings fan, the only thing that you were hoping for is that they would screw up drafting a quarterback again. So then you're really in trouble if they ended up with Justin Herbert and this division has Jared Goff, Justin Herbert, and Jordan love for a long time. Uh, I think that would be a problem, but I kind of like that trade for both teams, though, Manny. The question I have, though, I mean, I do, too.

The question I have, though, is if you're Jim Harbaugh and you just stepped into that position, do you want to go the route of really starting over and finding your quarterback? And I don't know, he loves J.J. McCarthy. Maybe he just, maybe with that first round of pick, he takes J.J. McCarthy and they just you know reunite but um but you do have you do have justin herbert there who's already kind of established as one of the better quarterbacks in the nfl

the question is to your point though is like how far can he really take them if you're harbaugh do you want to find that out before you start thinking about trading him? Or do you want to just blow this thing up completely and start over? Because it seems like if they trade Justin Herbert, that they're really trying to start this thing all over and rebuild. And I wonder if Jim Harbaugh is in a position where he would want to do something like that. But I think it would make some sense just because of the Chargers cap situation. I mean, they're a mess right now and with the bears you know the bears have the cap space to kind of absorb uh herbert's deal and they've got some pieces and there's something to

work with there um that would be interesting to see how that plays out though what so this is nuts uh jim harbaugh said in an interview that he was predicting that jj mccarthy would be the first quarterback taken and he did say that it would be one of the wildest things that's ever happened in the nfl if jim harbaugh took that job traded away justin herber and drafted his quarterback jj McCarthy, first overall. And I would just have to respect the pure insanity of doing that, passing up on Caleb Williams, Drake May, and Jaden Daniels to take somebody that most mock draft analysts think is like the 27th best prospect in the draft, number one overall.

And at that moment, I would definitely have a, are you sure Vikings fans? You wanted Jim Harbaugh type of moment. Uh, but Hey, this was a guy though, who, uh, Alex Smith was a great quarterback and he took somebody else and then moved on to that guy, knowing that Alex Smith was about to be expensive and had his limitations. And Justin Herbert is, I think really, really great. Uh, but I don't think he's perfect. I don't think that he's like to the level of Patrick Mahomes. And if you're going to compete with Mahomes, he may think that the only way to do that is with a cheap quarterback and a great team around it, rebuild the defense kind of like they had in San Francisco with Colin

Kaepernick for a couple of years there when Jim Harbaugh was there. So I, you know, I was kind of like, I don't know if I really want Harbaugh back in the league, but if he does this, then I'm very happy Harbaugh's back in the league. Cause that would be the funniest thing that I've ever seen. Uh, Timothy says with no run game and no screen game, is it smart for the Vikings to draft a first round quarterback? Well, I, I would say that, you know, they can improve the run game simply by getting a better running back. You could just start there like Devin Singletary or somebody in free agency and use Ty Chandler

more. Um, they can get a better run blocking left guard that can help. If you don't believe that their scheme can ever figure it out then i guess i don't know what to say because that means it'll never be better i think it can be better no screen game is annoying but you have justin jefferson and jordan addison and t.j hockinson and two great tackles i think that's actually as good of a setup for a rookie quarterback as there is manny like in the entire NFL, all the teams that could draft a quarterback, Atlanta is a pretty good spot if they were willing to be patient.

And then Vikings, they're better than any of this. If you get drafted to the Patriots, oh my gosh, who are you throwing to? Who is blocking for you? No one. They have no one and nothing. The Vikings have actually done kind of the hard part here. It's pretty hard to find an elite left tackle. It's pretty hard to find an elite receiver, much less the best one.

It's pretty hard to find a really good secondary receiver and a good tight end. Like you can fix a run game pretty fast. You get a lineman, you get a run game coordinator, you sign a free agent. Like the Vikings went to the NFC championship with Jarek McKinnon and Latavius Murray. You can do this. I believe in you. Screen game. Kevin O'Connell may just not ever understand in his life.

I don't know what to do about that. But as far as like, you're going to have open receivers to throw to, which would be the reason I would be confident in them drafting Bo Nix or Michael Penix or JJ McCarthy. Because, you know, one of the things that gets brought up is, well, does Bo Nix go through his progressions? All the progressions are just Justin Jefferson. That's the progression. You just throw to Justin Jefferson. If he's not open, somebody else will be. And he draws so much attention away. Like there's, there's a chart that was out there from our guys at Sumer sports, Eric eager about how often your receivers are open that you're throwing to no surprise. Like

the Vikings were toward the top of the list when Kirk cousins was in like these receivers know how to get open. I think this is a great spot for a rookie quarterback to drop into even for them to have success right away. Yeah, I agree. And I think ultimately when it comes to a young quarterback having success, you just want to try and make things as easy as possible, which I think sometimes is why having a good running game and a good screen game comes into the conversation because you think about if you have those things, then yeah, that makes life easier for a young quarterback that you're trying to develop. But another way to make things easier

for a young quarterback that's trying to develop is if he has Justin Jefferson and he's playing in a scheme where Justin Jefferson is open a lot, even when teams are trying to double cover him, he finds ways to get open because he's that good. And then you have Jordan Addison and you have one of the better tight ends

in the league in TJ Hawkinson, and you have a line that has really improved over the last year or so in terms of pass protection. Those are all good ingredients for a young quarterback to have success. You just have to take the right one, the guy that can handle the position mentally and can take in a lot of things and lead and has good intangibles and all those things.

I think it's a really good spot. It's a really good situation. And then you have that young quarterback that's cheap. You have flexibility with your cap. You can go and get more pieces on defense or on offense if you want to add even more weapons and make life even easier for that young quarterback. It's a it's a good it's a really good position, I think, for for anybody that steps in. Folks, if you've been listening to the show, then you know how much fun we have been having with prize picks this year. Just go to prize picks dot com slash purple.

Use the code purple for a first deposit match up to $100. And let me tell you how it works. If you haven't heard us talk about it enough yet, or you haven't tried it yet, very simple. There are yardage totals on PrizePicks. You either pick more or less and boom, you are playing. Each week has been a roller coaster ride of fun, and the best part is that when I have a bad week, I didn't lose much. It doesn't cost much to play. You can turn 10 bucks into 250 very easily, and if things go sideways for you,

you're not out a whole heck of a lot of money. That is prizepicks.com slash purple, just more or less on yardage totals and you are in prize picks.com slash purple the code purple for a first deposit match up to 100 huge boy says i feel like these guys are being minnesota nice pushing kirk out putting a positive spin on it look how good you'll be with another team. Go in with them. That's funny. I mean, look, we've spent a lot of time talking about the other reasons to not have Kirk Cousins. So that's not really new information. It was only interesting to me that

the rest of the league people that I talked to, just people who cover different teams, were all looking at the Viking spot with Cous cousins saying they can't figure out why they would bring him back, that he would be a better fit with other teams. So that's why we kind of brought it up from that perspective rather than the, Hey, look, they've won one playoff game. And I got a crazy stat that somebody like alerted me to that. I have never thought of Manny. This, this one, everyone just prepare yourselves.

No one's driving and listening to YouTube. I hope so. I don't have to tell you to pull over, but just brace yourself. The Minnesota Vikings, the Philadelphia Eagles have the same number of playoff wins at us bank stadium. That's a fact.

The same number of playoff wins. Hadn't even thought about that. Yep. I, yeah. So how's that for Minnesota? Nice. We know who that decision comes back to for why that would be.

And that would be their decision to sign Kirk cousins for why they have no home playoff wins since he joined the team. And the Philadelphia Eagles have as many playoff wins at us bank stadium as the Minnesota Vikings. So there you go. Less Minnesota. Nice on that one. Dan says the chargers would absorb a huge cap hit for trading uh justin herbert uh i don't think it was realistic um i never thought that it was realistic that they would actually do that i just sort of loved it like i thought like hey give me some wild trade that it you know is jim harbaugh doing something insane even if that's really bad division-wise for the Minnesota Vikings. Do you want to hear what the Packers hosts thought, Manny? Absolutely. Absolutely.

One guy was excited about Sean Mannion joining their organization, which I was surprised by, but I'll tell you this. I really mean this when I say huge congratulations to Sean Mannion at getting a coaching job with the Packers. One of the great interviews I've ever had would be with him as far as players in the Vikings locker room, super intelligent guy. He has been a coach on the field or mostly off the field, I guess, as a backup quarterback, but he's been a coach for years now. And I think he's going to be great. Like as a backup quarterback, but he's been a coach for years now. And, uh, I think he's going to be great. Like I wouldn't be surprised if he's an offensive coordinator, if he's eventually a head coach, like he's got that football level of acumen.

So I'm happy for him. He was never going to play again because he's just not a good NFL player, but he can be a Kevin O'Connell for sure. Uh, so that, that actually did come up about, uh, Sean Manning, but that wasn't the main topic. Uh, Bill Michaels, who everybody in Vikings land probably knows a legend in green Bay. I was on his show and he said that he wants to see another year of Jordan love before he decides that Jordan love is great. And I was a little surprised by this Manny because if, and I've heard this from Vikings fans, I've gotten the stop saying Jordan Love's great. He hasn't won anything.

I look, if Jordan Love played for you, you'd have his face tattooed on your chest by now. Yep. You'd be, you'd be freaking out this off season about how amazing you were set up for years. So let's not pretend that it didn't go really well, but how about this for a question, Manny, Bill Michaels, a little bit skeptical. He's seen a lot and you know, he's still got a little bit of this. He's no Favre. He's no Rogers, but he runs the offense. I'm like, I don't know, man, that arm's pretty good. What, what level of skepticism should exist around Jordan love after a really, truly great half a season?

I, I think, I honestly, I think Packer fans should be over the moon right now, really with, with what they've seen. I mean, just because, yeah, you know, I, I think sometimes it, it, maybe it's just because the last pass of the season that he threw basically ended their season, you know, I think sometimes it maybe it's just because the last pass of the season that he threw basically ended their season, you know, and it was very Brett Favre like, you know, in terms of the type of interception that he threw. But, you know, I just look back at and this is not even to suggest that Jordan Love is going to be as great as Aaron Rodgers has been. But, you know, there were question marks about Aaron Rodgers when he, you know, Aaron Rodgers' first year as a starter, the Packers went 6-10. You know, and he played well, but the team just wasn't that good. And there was a lot of that, well, he's not Brett.

He's not as good as Brett. And I'm not sure, you know, he's been developing. But, you know, can this team really win with him? And then, you know, two years later, they won the Super Bowl with Aaron Rodgers. So I think it's sometimes it's easy to just kind of fall back on the just not sure I need to see a little bit more before I get too excited type of thing because it was the same situation with Aaron Rodgers in 2008. But I think when you just look at the physical tools, the way he played in the second half of the season,

which I think is a good sign because it shows that he can adjust on the fly as the season goes along and get better. You know what I mean? I mean, Jordan Love got better as the season went along and get better. You know what I mean? I mean, Jordan Love got better as the season went along. That's what you want to see. You want him to be playing at his best at the right time during the season, and he did that. So I think it's a good sign.

They got a young roster with other players on the team that are going to get better and better. You know, I think I don't know how much trading Rodgers away, I know it impacted their cap this year. I don't know how much it's going to affect their cap going forward in future years, but if that team gets

enough cap space too, they're going to be able to add more talent. Packers are going to be scary. Again, I like what I saw from Jordan Love. As somebody that grew up in Minnesota that's the, you know, Packers are going to be scary again. I like what I saw from Jordan Love and I'm not, you know, as somebody that grew up in Minnesota cheering for the Vikings, I don't, I don't want to say that, but I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna allow my eyes to lie to lie to me from what I saw too.

Like this is, you know, I want the Vikings to do what they do what they need to do to get better and contend. But this, this division in the next couple of years, I think is really going to be a dog fight with, with all four teams involved with Detroit kind of at the, at the forefront right now. I love that. We lost like 10 people watching as soon as you were talking about how good Jordan love look to you. So that, that made me laugh. But here, here's what I would say. We have seen this

go both ways over the history of the NFL. We have seen guys break into the league, be very exciting and just fizzle out super fast. I mean, even like Mac Jones, I thought, wow, what a draft pick by the Patriots and Mac Jones look really good. And then he was horrible the whole rest of the time. And maybe that was circumstance. I don't know. Uh, but he certainly didn't prevent that circumstance by being really good. And there are other quarterbacks who have done this as well, where our first impression of Carson Wentz, like this guy's going to be a God for a long time. And then he's more of like a nine and seven quarterback the rest of the time. And then he's a quarterback that no one even wants to sign until midway through the season. That's a guy who, if you go back and you

did 2018 quarterback rankings, I bet if I bet he was top three, top five, even Jalen hurts had a little bit of a down year this year after this huge breakout. So it's not a guarantee that somebody looks really good. And then just the next year comes out and is great and just continues to get greater and greater. So I don't know what I do know is a, what I saw was very good, but the Vikings need to treat it as if it's going to retain this level of player greater. If you, if you put your head in the sand and you go, maybe he won't like that seems to me to be a very dubious approach. They need to act like if you don't have a quarterback of his level and the way that

he played in the second half of the season or better, then you aren't going to beat the Packers year in and year out. If he continues, like you got to prepare for the worst case scenario. And in this case, you should be building a bomb shelter, filling it with peas and water and whatever cash of weapons. Like you just like, this is, this is, this is like a code, a code zero or whatever for the Vikings. If the Packers once again, look like even look like, and if it doesn't turn out that way, then you still took the right approach anyway. But this isn't a, oh, we'll just run it back and it'll be fine because he won't be this good again. The really funny thing is that what he had me believing in, and it went the opposite way at the end of that game against San Francisco,

was the fact that he just didn't have a lot of turnover worthy plays throughout the season. He was not a mess throwing the ball all over the place. And that was what I thought would be his down downfall. So they need to like act accordingly, act according to what you've seen, not what you hope ends up happening in green Bay. Uh, but that was kind of a main takeaway of bill Michaels. And I was on another show as well, where both of them were talking about the Vikings as just a team that in Green Bay, they're not thinking about. They're thinking about where Chicago is going to be and what stuff they could do. They're thinking about the Lions as the team to chase down after where they were just at and a team that's not going to disappear from the top and thinking the Vikings are just bringing up the rear. And it's very hard for me to disagree with that.

Let me get back to some comments here. Alexander says the NFL is good at getting first round quarterbacks, right? Second round quarterbacks, historically not a great bet. However, I think if Pennix falls, he's an outlier to, because of the injuries. Well, so I did some research on this, Manny. And you know what I found was that quarterbacks who the outside world thinks are somewhere toward the back end of the first early second tend to not be drafted all that high. Like Daniel Jones is the exception to this, where he was on the consensus big board for mock draft database 30th. And he was somehow picked six because Dave Gettleman's a lunatic. But aside from that, there was a lot of other guys. And I wrote this in an article, but a lot of other guys in that ballpark, like Hendon Hooker was on the draft database, big board at 33 and ended up going 68.

Desmond Ritter was also 33. He ended up going at 74. Let me see here. Let me scroll down a little bit. Yeah. Deshaun Kaiser was 33, ended up going 52. I mean, is there a possibility, Mannyanny that unless these guys wow at the combine, that we could be trying too hard to talk ourselves into something that's not actually going to

happen? Or what, one of my main goals of the little project I was looking into, and that's over at purple insider.com was just how accurate or inaccurate, uh, the mock drafting world is when it comes to quarterbacks. And basically, if they pick these guys at the very top, they're taken at the very top. Everything else is really all over the place. There are guys who they've been dead on, like about Kenny Pickett and Jordan Love, guys who they were way off and being too high high way off being too low and i think that the the world is really struggling to figure out where bo nicks jj mccarthy and michael pennix fit into this thing yeah and i i think you know the other part of that too is a lot of times the the guys that are

kind of thought to go towards the either like the middle or the back of the first round. A lot of times they fall because teams are not, you know, either they have a bad combine or a lot, sometimes those teams, you know, and it kind of makes sense because they're picking towards the end of the first round. Those teams aren't looking for young quarterbacks because they typically, they have one. And so they're not they're thinking like well we need to go in a different direction you know in terms of you know who we use our first round pick on um but then yeah you also get some of those guys that um are are not as well thought of as we initially thought because we look at a few mocks here and

there and i mean will Will Levis is, is really a perfect example where people had him going, I think like in the top five, like fourth overall or something in some, in some mocks. And he ended up not getting taken in the first round at all. And, you know,

you, you, you sometimes you see those guys and you, you kind of forget about some of the flaws that they may have, you know what I mean? because they get hyped up so much about all the positive things about them, and then you tend to kind of ignore like, okay, well, this guy's a little bit older in age,

he's got this issue, he has this injury problem, and then that's why they end up following. So I'm kind of fascinated to see how this plays out for Bo Nix and Michael Penix because I think there's a lot of things to like about both of those guys, as we talked about. But I think it's also fair to look at what they've done and look at their makeup and everything and kind of maybe have some second thoughts about it just

because of well i mean both of those guys are going to be 24 years old when the season starts um you know michael pennix has the history with the injuries and everything bo nicks you know was in a situation at auburn it didn't work out and then he got into a better better program with more weapons and a better infrastructure and he played a lot better. So you kind of wonder, like, does he really need all of those things to be perfectly in place for him to have success? Can he, you know, can he be a guy that you, you know, turn the keys over to your franchise too? So there's a lot of question marks about both guys. I still like them both a lot. But if we get to that top half of the first round and nobody takes them, then you're starting to look at some of the other teams and you're like,

well, why would they use a first-round pick on a quarterback when they have somebody in place already? And then the next thing you know, Bo Nix is getting taken like 35th or something like that. Yeah. Just to show you how difficult it is to pinpoint middling quarterbacks in the first round, Drew Locke and Patrick Mahomes had the same number as far as where mock drafters had them on big boards in the database. So the consensus board that they put together and it was 22nd. So the mock draft universe draft analysis universe didn't respect Patrick Mahomes very much at all. And it turned out that there was all these stories that even

Alex Smith was telling one recently about how the GM of the chiefs was obsessed with Patrick Mahomes since the time Mahomes was like a freshman and that he had had his eyes on this guy. It was who he wanted to draft. They were going to make that happen. Hell or high water. Even on draft day, people were confused. Like, why are they trading this far up for this flawed prospect? And think about like Patrick Mahomes and drew lock Mah homes and lock both have something in common. They have really great tools. They can make wild throws with their arm, but neither one of them was a finished product. And yet the NFL understood that my homes was a great prospect to draft intent.

They didn't understand how great, but they understood he was a top 10 prospect. And they also understood that drew lock was not even a first rounder, but the mock draft world did not know that. So it's like, how did one, you know, like what, what are they missing? Was it the character, the makeup, the meetings, all the stuff that we can't see. So we can't see what they're thinking coming out of the senior bowl about panics about Knicks from the senior bowl. And that was was really interesting too because neither one of them decidedly separated themselves to make it so like everyone walked out and said okay bo nicks needs to be a top 10 draft pick i heard different opinions even today talking to some people who were at the senior bowl

different opinions on how bo nicks looked how how Michael Penix looked, but neither one of them solidified themselves. And so we've already seen mocks dropping both of them because they didn't have a great senior bowl, which I just can't imagine NFL team being like, okay, well, we had him 14th and now he's 47th on our board or something based on three practices in Mobile, Alabama, unless there was something they were really concerned about with, uh, the interviews. So there's a lot of stuff that goes on that we can't really pinpoint, but usually if guys are way back toward the first round or out of it, they usually end up going lower. So I'm, I'm, I'm really having a tough time pinning down whether any of those guys would be worth taking or if on draft

night we're all gonna go okay i guess the league thought that they were nowhere near that uh mike says can you speak on the level of speculation from minnesota media outlets claiming that penix is inaccurate uh at least the data that pff has had him as one of the highest graded passers in college football. So there's that. I think that he has some tendencies with his footwork to let passes rip high, which is probably something that you can adjust. He has a very non-traditional throwing motion. So does Philip Rivers. Don't know how much I care about that.

What I do know, though, is that the guy has two things. He has an absolute rocket, but he also has like really nice touch on the football down the field. So if he's throwing the ball 40 yards down the field, he seems to really be able to put the nice arc on it, to get it over defenders, to guide it into receivers hands. And I liked that about him a ton. I don't know that he's like flawlessly accurate, but sometimes there can be so much emphasis on accuracy that we think. And I thought that Josh Allen wouldn't be any good.

You and I talked about it a lot, but I mean, you know, I thought coming out of college, I don't know what the league is doing right now with Josh Allen. And it was the arm strength ultimately won out for him. But I think that it's really Penix's velocity and his deep touch that make him stand out. Maybe he isn't necessarily the most precise on some of these other passes, but I don't know how many people will be. Honestly, I honestly don't know how many quarterbacks are just going to be perfect. Even if you draft Jaden Daniels, like when you watch Jaden Daniels, you'll see three or four passes where you're like, not sure what happened there, buddy.

You also see three or four Jared Goff passes that you're like, I don't know what happened there, buddy. So I don't know if you're looking for a perfect prospect. Andrew Luck was already drafted a long time ago. Vikings didn't tank well enough to get him. Sorry, but everybody else is going to have questions. How about this Manny? It's not draft season until a draft analyst says that a top quarterback could actually fall. And, uh, Lance Zierlein of NFL.com said that Drake May could be the guy who falls. So everybody, everybody can rise.

Everybody can fall. And nobody has any idea what they're doing. He can fall all the way to 11. If he wants, I'm totally fine with that. It's not going to happen, but I would be totally fine with that. That is exactly what I was thinking. I was like, yes, I agree. He should fall and free fall all the way to 11 and no later than 11. Uh, yeah, I don't know. I'm, I'm sure that the person who told Lance Zierlein that was telling him what they thought. But the thing is

that there's so many evaluators in the NFL. Someone's thinking something all the time. I remember hearing some people had Kellen Mond higher than Justin Fields on their boards. I remember hearing that. And I don't just mean Chris Sims. I mean, in the league and, uh, Justin Fields is not great, but he's way better than Kellen Mond. And he was a way better prospect and went way higher. That's why all the draft insider stuff is extremely murky i would say very quickly too to go back on the the previous point about you know pennix's accuracy and everything i think another thing to keep in mind is like we have to allow room for growth with all of these guys

you know you also have to just allow for these guys to get into an NFL camp, get on a roster, get with an NFL coaching staff and allow for that coaching staff to continue to mold that guy. It's called development. You know what I mean? Like Patrick Mahomes was not perfect. Andy Reed and that coaching staff had to develop him in 2017 while Alex Smith was playing. Aaron Rodgers, I mean, go back and read all of the stuff that was wrong with Aaron Rodgers when the Packers first drafted him in 2005. And he sat behind Brett Favre for three years. I mean, they had to do a lot of work on him just from his footwork and his mechanics and accuracy, all of that stuff.

And then he ended up being one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time. So you, you, you have to allow, I think some, some room for growth and development for all of these guys before, you know, determining, well, how accurate is he? Is he really accurate or not? And you know, the footwork, is this footwork good enough? Again, it just goes back to what I've said, just draft a guy and develop them and hope that he turns out. And if it doesn't, you just draft another guy.

Manny Hill thinks Michael Penix will be Aaron Rodgers. That is what he said. Yes. That's what I heard and nothing else. Matthew says, do you think it's more likely they draft an interior defensive line player with a high pick or an edge rusher? I mean, this is all if they don't draft quarterback, obviously, but I would say that based on the way things look, edge rusher seems to be a stronger class. There's maybe one interior defensive lineman, the guy from Illinois that I've seen even mocked in the first round. The edge rusher

from UCLA has gotten a lot of mocks to the Vikings, but I think it would have to just be, if you're not drafting a quarterback and your plan is to trade back into the first to try to take one of these guys or wait and see if you could get them in the second round, if it's, you know, Pennix because of the injury history or whatever, you just got to take the best player available. That's the best corner. That's the best edge rusher. That's the best, whatever the defensive line is a disaster. But if your guy isn't there, then pick a corner. Like it's gotta be something on defense because that's, that's my big issue with this entire roster. It's not my big, it's their big issue with the roster is that they are really far away. They're, they're not a quick project away. This isn't like go into free

agency for a weekend and stock up your defense over one or two days. This is, this is a multi-season multi-draft type of project because there's no one who's even the next man up. Like Josh Metellus kind of surprised us this year. Like, Oh, okay. I guess they had something they were developing, but there there's like no people on the defensive line. There aren't humans under contract. It's Patrick Jones who would have to go from the worst graded edge rusher in the league by PFF to something pretty unlikely. DJ Wanham's a free agent. Uh, Jonathan Bullard played like 700 snaps, which is insane. You know how people are obsessed with how they should have drafted Jordan Davis. He played like 200 fewer snaps than Jonathan Bullard. Like that's that, that is a, it's a rotational world. That's kind of the point.

It's a rotational world when it comes to the D line and they got nothing, but they also don't have a shutdown corner at all. Jordan Hicks is a free agent as well. And he probably isn't going to come back because he's in his last, he almost lost his fricking leg last year. He probably wants to maybe go try to chase a championship. So, you know, I, I think that they would need to start pretty much anywhere. And this is where it's complicated, Manny, with what the league and what the Vikings actually

think of these quarterbacks, because if Kirk does what everyone thinks he's going to do here in Vegas, which is land somewhere else, then you got to be sure you have an option. You got to be sure you can get Baker Mayfield here, or you got to be sure that you like one of these quarterbacks and that you're not just reaching and guessing. And like, I guess we got to take somebody. So pick one you like, I mean, you really got to know how these guys are going to fit with you and not be backed into a corner of just picking one.

So I guess it's, it's really weird to say, but I would rather have them pick no one. If these guys aren't actually first round prospects and they're going to do what drew lock did or Hendon hooker. Remember when Hendon hooker was mocked to the Vikings, the dude ends up getting picked 68th. Like if, if that's what the league really thinks,

then you can't stretch on it and you're gonna have to find another solution for a year but that to me is the absolute worst case scenario where you're just drafting for defense at 11 and then not having an option at quarterback and hoping that i don't know andy dalton can do it for you next year like i don't even know what you do at that point if you can't get Baker Mayfield. Yeah. And I mean, and that's where I think, you know, you go into free agency, especially if Kirk Cousins walks, you've got to, you got to find somebody that can step in and hold down the four for you.

And that's why, you know, a guy like Baker Mayfield makes some sense, you know, maybe a Gardner Minshew makes some sense, but you know, less sense than a Baker Mayfield would, would make, but you just need somebody that's going to, that, you know, like, okay, we don't have a problem with this guy starting 17 games for us in 2024. Like that's, that's ultimately what, what you need. And that's where you, where you go to free agency to find that. And then, you know, if you're not able to find the quarterback that you want,

if you don't want Bo Nix, if you don't want Michael Penix Jr., then you feel a little bit better about passing on those guys, taking a defensive, you know, an edge rusher or or the three technique defensive lineman or a corner whoever you might want at 11 or you know maybe you trade down a few spots and get some more draft capital and then you still get a guy that you want um but you you've got to have you ultimately you've got to have a plan um i think you know you and i both know that you know there's a decent there's a decent chance that kirk cousins is not going to be back there's a maybe a decent chance that he will be back but i think if you're quacey and you're a koc you've got to prepare for for everything

you've got to have an idea of what you want to do um for everything and you know you just hope for the best and hope whatever decision you make is the right one uh iz the faithful or is the faithful spelled is with a z not sure but i love spongebob so i appreciate your avatar uh says nicks jj mccarthy and pennix will all go in the second round or later people will be surprised because they are being overvalued like Hendon hooker last year. Um, at least by the consensus mock drafts, they aren't being overvalued from what you're saying. Like the expectation is back of the first or early second as of right now. Cause I just did an article about this yesterday and they were ranked. Let me see where they were ranked. Uh, 27th for McCarthy, 33rd for Nix,

and 38th for Pennix. So that's like the outside world seems to think they're there. But my point was like the way that the boards have worked in the past is sometimes guys are ranked in the 20s and end up going much higher than that. And sometimes they end up going much lower than that. It's the hardest place to pin down. And that's what I feel about these three in particular. One of them is probably a first round pick. I honestly don't know which one I have no idea which one, because I think you

can make an argument for all three. Nick's has great, great numbers. He's got good athleticism, uh, you know, 45 touchdown. Like, I mean, he really had a great year and Penix has this huge arm and McCarthy has raw tools. Sometimes the guy with raw tools ends up being the one who drops because they don't believe in it that much, but also like his character might be very, very high. I don't know. Like every college coach is going to say that their guy has really high character. And I think all three of them probably do. But when you actually have them in the room and you got them on a whiteboard and you're drawing up plays and you're having them break them down, like how, how much do NFL people see that we don't to be able to evaluate these guys?

Cause in my mind, they all have reasons to go in the first. They all have reasons to go in the third. And I can't remember. I there's like one a year who's like this, but to have this many, and it actually has maybe the closest feeling to Sam Howell, Desmond Ritter, Matt Corral, where you really have to squint. But I think these guys are better than that. I think that they're better prospects than those guys were. So yeah, I don't know. I, I honestly truly don't know. Uh, Hunter says your opinion, would you rather go all in and trade to draft within the top three or sit at 11 and draft Knicks? Well, assuming that the Vikings actually think Knicks is a first round draft pick. It's, it's very hard, Manny. I probably want him to trade up because Daniels is likely a way better prospect.

That's just how it feels to me. Yeah, I mean, I think if you can make it happen, I think you've got to trade up. I think we've both been kind of saying that for a few weeks. The challenge is the three teams that are picking at the top they all need quarterbacks like they all need quarterbacks even the bears who you know there's this thought that you know maybe they might hang on to justin fields but it makes all the sense in the world for them to just take a quarterback at the top

because you're how many times you're going to get this kind of opportunity um washington needs a quarterback new england needs a quarterback you know so your best bet is trade up to four with arizona or trade up to five with the chargers maybe because those two teams have incumbent quarterbacks that are still young uh that they may try to build around. But that's where the challenge is, is just trying to get into that top three because it might not be feasible because the teams that are picking up there all need quarterbacks and they're not going to trade down to 11 if they've got a chance to get a guy that they want. So I was asking Brad Spielberger, we were just talking about what he thought it would take to get up to number five. He didn't think that it would take three firsts. He thought two and change, which if you're telling me two firsts and a second or two seconds or something to go from 11 to five to pick Jaden Daniels, I am a hundred percent in the Patriots. The Patriots may not love Jaden Daniels as much as we love him to put him

into a situation. That's horrible. If you're Gerard Mayo and you're taking over this new team, I mean, are you wanting to not only rebuild this team from all the offensive positions, they have nothing on offense and also try to develop a quarterback under those circumstances. I mean, Justin Fields was put into that spot and I don't know if he was ever going to be a great quarterback, but it certainly

set him back. And there are some comparisons with Jaden Daniels and Justin Fields. Like I, I mean, the running is a huge one, but I don't think that Daniels, based on his pretty high sack rate in college, is the most trained pocket quarterback because he's been making plays. So you're betting on the tools, which I'm happy to do, and has worked out with a lot of different quarterbacks,

but he has relied on his legs a lot and is not exactly a polished drop back set one, two, three, let it loose kind of thing. Like, I think he's a little farther behind even than someone like Lamar Jackson from how his offense was where Lamar was playing in kind of a pro style offense. And you could see him going through progressions before he took off where daniels is kind of more of a like make some obscene throw with his arm or make some obscene run but it's tools that you're going to develop and so forth if you put him with nobody is that going to help like probably not so i could see the patriots deciding to pass and And then, uh, the Arizona Cardinals sticking with Kyler Murray

and assuming that, you know, Jim Harbaugh doesn't do something totally insane. The chargers look like a team to be able to do it. So that's, that's what I've kind of targeted as if it's going to happen, like that's how it happens is just that one team, the Patriots says, eh, you know, we're not really sure, or maybe, you know what, maybe Lance zero lines guy that he was talking to will be right. And these quarterbacks that we expected to go one, two, three will not. We have seen something somewhat like this before fields was expected to be drafted in the top three and he ended up dropping out of that. So not totally impossible. Uh, Brady says if the Vikings draft Pennix would dare a saw become expendable

since he wouldn't be on the blind side. I don't think so. I don't think that a left tackle is ever expendable because that's where the greatest players on defense play. So you're going to have to, I mean, there's some guys who rush off the other side, but you're going to have to face still tons of great edge rushers that would happily hit your quarterback in the face. Uh, and I think that maybe a little bit of that left tackle, right tackle thing has been overrated. So Manny, we have so many people participating and I have so little to do for the rest of the day that I'm going to keep chatting, uh, with this, but I don't want you to have to spend your whole night because you have a job.

I don't know that you have a life, but at least maybe a job. I'm going to let you go, but keep chatting. I wanted to ask you this before you go about the Super Bowl. Do you know what nobody talked to me about today at all? The Super Bowl. People talked to me about everything they talk about the vikings they talked about i was on in tennessee radio and they were really like talking about their rebuild and how they're going to get from point a to point b and i thought man your team's in a lot of trouble and i was like wait it kind of looks like the vikings uh and uh then you know new england

everybody else not a single person said to me hey Hey, what do you think about this Superbowl? It, the America will watch the Superbowl. I promise the United States of America will watch. But as far as lead up intrigue, I think it's about like a one out of 10. I don't think that there's any lead up intrigue to this Super Bowl? I wonder if, and you know, you and I are both football nerds, so we don't really care as much, but I wonder if there's a little bit of a Chiefs, Mahomes, Kelsey, you know, fatigue maybe let, you know, they've just been the dominant team in the NFL for the last, you know, half decade,

last six years since Mahomes took over as the starting quarterback. And they've been in, this is going to be the fourth Superbowl now in the last five years that they've played in. And I, sometimes I wonder if there's just a little bit of like, all right, got a tire to seeing the chiefs in the super bowl every year. Let's get some, let's get some new blood. Let's get, you know, you know, like I, like, I wonder if the Ravens,

if the Ravens were playing in this game instead of the chiefs, if there would be more intrigue because of sort of the freshness of it, you've got Lamar being this exciting dynamic player. That's I don't know. Maybe that's the difference you know or if it's the lions you know if the lions would have beaten san francisco and you still have the chiefs in the matchup but the lions being the ultimate fresh brand new super bowl team as a team that's never done it before um i wonder if it would be different but it just kind of feels like all right 49ers been in a bunch of super bowls the chiefs have been the team that's been here every year for the last half decade.

Just not quite as, maybe there's just not quite as much interest. Like people will still watch, but I don't know how many people are like super excited for this particular matchup. Yeah, I think that the actual game has the potential to be an unbelievably good Superbowl, but do you need to hear anything more from Patrick Mahomes about anything in the lead up? Like, is he an intriguing player?

No. Like he's just the greatest is Andy Reed. Like this is Andy reads how many at the Superbowl. So, okay. Like what is his third Superbowl with the chiefs? And he was there with the Eagles. I was like,

yeah, right. So it's not, um, that interesting from his perspective. I mean, Brock Purdy is probably the most interesting. And then like San Francisco,

Kyle Shanahan has been here before. Can they get over the hump? But they're kind of always right there. And they're not a team that has this like, wow, fresh factor. And I'm going to, I'm going to reveal something here, Manny, that the Kansas city chiefs and Taylor Swift are kind

of a little bit perfect for each other because both of them deserve their flowers. They're incredibly successful, but everyone's sick of them. Last night, my wife who has always liked Taylor Swift, we went to the Taylor Swift concert when she was in Minnesota. And honestly, my credit to Ms. Swift for an incredible show. It was really good. She put on a great show. My wife said last night after the Grammys, I'm a little tired of Taylor Swift. And I was like, Whoa, Whoa, because it's just been so in your face and like that i think is what's caused this is there's really nothing interesting to say new about taylor swift or the chiefs there's no award they can win or championship or whatever that will be new or fresh or exciting if they win it'll be like well

they got the best quarterback and there they go again. And, uh, that's great. Cause you know, all time, great players are fun and we should never get sick of all time, great players. But at the same time, there's a, there is a fatigue that exists with this. And even like the words, Taylor Swift have gotten a little annoying. So like, I mean, I just, uh, you know, I was seeing like, uh, at the Superbowl, all the people trying to like get pictures of Travis Kelsey and everything else, uh, at the media event, which I was here for radio row. So I didn't go to that, but, uh, yeah, I think, I think there's exhaustion for it.

And the matchup is pretty straightforward. There isn't this like fascinating, this guy versus this guy, this strategy versus that strategy. It's basically is my home's going to do it to you too. That's basically what it is. Right. And can Brock Purdy play better than he's played so far in the playoffs? See,

I think it feels like a lot of the conversation leading up to the game is going to be about narratives versus actual matchups, actual in-game matchups. It's going to be, we're going to have a lot of comparisons of patrick mahomes and brock purdy it's like you know mahomes is the superstar best quarterback in the league and brock purdy is still kind of being questioned of like how good is he really like is he a product of the system and how good the team is like which is kind of ridiculous at

this point when the guy's playing in the freaking super bowl like he's just good but you know that that's going to be the conversation of two guys who are not really going to be matched up with each other at all on the field are going to be compared to each other and it's just going to be really uh really annoying i'm not looking forward to that part of it i just want to fast forward to the game. I do think it'll be a great game, but I can kind of do without, you know, the lead up because it's just not going to be what I'm hoping for. I really felt that. I really felt that. Okay, Manny. Well, great stuff. You and I will talk on Thursday and what I am going to do, I'd like you to do it as well. Here's your homework is let's put together a couple of trivia questions for

each other about the super bowl and look, dumb it down a little for me. I'm not a freak like you. So I, okay. I mean, I, I look, I'm, I'm into the history as you know, but, uh, you are really a lunatic when it comes to this stuff. So I'm going to come up with some difficult questions for you that people can play along in the chat on Thursday night and maybe make some halfway easy ones for me that I would have seen in the NFL films recap, watching it on NFL network. But thanks as always

for your time. I'm going to keep chatting, but we'll, we'll talk on Thursday. Sounds good. Looking forward to it. There you go. Manny Hill, whose head did not freeze today. That was a, that was quite an accomplishment. Is that because let me switch my view here. Here's more of my hotel room and a line in front of me for those just maybe joining.

Hold on. I'll fix the line over my head.