Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Ranking Sam Darnold among Vikings pop-up QB seasons

Episode Date: December 13, 2024

Matthew Coller and Manny Hill rank the Vikings surprise QB seasons and answer fan questions Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

🎵 Oh! There I am! Hey everybody! Welcome! I can't have that welcome i can't have that we can't have okay we got to get everybody on the right side there we go what's up everybody welcome to another episode of purple insider matthew collar and manny hill there that's gonna look funny when people go back and watch it you just like looking around like i was getting ready to just start the show i was just getting ready to go like hey welcome to purple insider manny here and collar is somewhere uh well good to see you manny how we doing uh good an exciting exciting time in our lives i think maybe i just got a little too

jacked about the show and wasn't maybe focusing quite enough on the details of the operation. So Sam Darnold, do not take a hint from me. Keep that keep that laser focus. Don't get too caught up thinking about other things. Make sure you're doing your job. So, Manny, it's a crazy time in our lives and yet it feels so familiar that the minnesota vikings are in december with a good record and a quarterback that we absolutely never saw coming in sam darnold with this 11 and 2 record going down the stretch here and i think after the win over the

falcons and his all-time great performance in Vikings history against Atlanta, we can officially say it. It's one of those years before that. Yes, he was very good. He's having a good season. They're winning, but there's a lot of skepticism. And is he really going to continue doing it? He's going to throw a bunch of interceptions? Is he going to lose to Kirk Cousins? And the answer is no. Not only not lose to him, but throttle Kirk Cousins team at US Bank Stadium. So I think it is time that you and I have a discussion about Vikings history and where Mr. Darnold fits in among the all-time, never-saw-that-coming, surprise pop-up quarterbacks.

And, you know, as I was making my list and I was thinking about this, there's some that I didn't even really initially think of. Like Jim McMahon, who I think falls into this category. Our buddy Gus Farratt, who was on a million radio shows with us throughout the years. It is a very long list. And I would like to know from you as of this moment, if you're making the list from the start, the craziest, the best, the most impressive out of nowhere Vikings quarterback season, where does it start? Who has to be at the very top of your list? And then we can work through them and see how far we go to get to Sam Darnold. I think you have to start with Case Keenum, right? I mean, it's, you know, you look at the way he came out of nowhere.

Case Keenum was a journeyman backup quarterback who wasn't drafted, who was just kind of a guy that had been hanging around the league for a few years and played for a couple of different teams. And then he comes out of nowhere in 2017. And you remember when Sam Bradford got hurt, when he had the knee issue, and Case Keenum had to start that game in Pittsburgh. Everybody, honestly, was like, oh, bleep.

This is going to be really trouble. And Sam had just played that, Sam Bradford had just played that great Monday night game to start the year against the Saints, lighting up that New Orleans defense. And, you know, we saw Dalvin Cook kind of emerge as a star, as a rookie that first game as well. And it was like, hey, we knew how good the defense was. It was like, all right, Sam is in year two with the Vikings. He's more settled in. He's got a whole training camp with the team under his belt.

Let's go. And then we hear about Sam and his knee. And Case has to start in Pittsburgh. And the Pittsburgh game doesn't go very well. And everybody is really kind of in a panic mode. Like, what do they do? How are the Vikings going to handle this? They're set up for a really successful season to maybe go on a run.

And then Case has the Tampa Bay game. I think it was the week after, right? I think it was week three. And it was like, okay, Case Keenum. Okay, let's go. And then he had a few more games throughout that season and the Vikings just kept winning. And Mike Zimmer is going up to, you know, at every press conference and he's kind of throwing Case Keenum under the bus, you know, because Case had some turnover worthy plays and he was kind of throwing case keenum under the bus you know because case had some turnover worthy plays and they really was kind of getting by and the team kept winning um and then obviously the minneapolis miracle happens they go to the nfc title game and all

that so i think if you have to start for start with like what is sort of the craziest out of left field unexpected experience um from a from a It, I think you have to start with case Keenum. Number one, I think case is a really, really good pick. He was not my pick, which I'll explain in a second, but just to put context on what you're saying, as far as the out of nowhere nature, the pure shock of this man, leading them to 13 wins. And if you go back and look at their offensive production in the passing game he didn't throw a ton of passes but because they ran the ball and they were ahead in a lot of games they played defense but he was an efficient quarterback he had a really good touchdown interception ratio good yards per attempt and as the season went on, he eventually had it pick up and played really

good football for a while, but there were just those moments, the interceptions at Washington, when they were way up and the game should have been over and they allowed Kirk to bring it back. I think I want to say Kirk ran for a touchdown in that game that there was, there were so many of those, ah, there's something that's eventually going to go wrong here. And then the Minneapolis Miracle is the most out-of-nowhere play where the ball is just thrown up for grabs by the sideline. You're thinking maybe they could kick a field goal, and instead, Stefan Diggs turns it into one of the great plays in playoff history.

But to go back to training camp of that year, Sam Bradford was lighting it up. Insane training camp. I've talked about on the show in the past. One of the most impressive, if not the most impressive training camps I have ever seen from a quarterback. And here's Keenum and Taylor Heineke

kind of bumbling around behind him, getting reps with the twos, splitting reps with the twos. Keenum's just not doing all that well. And we went into the first preseason game between the Vikings and the Bills thinking there was a serious backup quarterback competition. And we were asking Zimmer about it going into that game. And he's like, yeah, well, it's that these,

those two guys are kind of neck and neck and everything like never in a million years would have ever thought that one of those quarterbacks would take them to a 13 win season as case keenum did and the fact that he did have that bucks game but there were some other ones one against the packers there were a few that were just wholly unimpressive that the defense had to win. And it might not have been until they beat the Rams. And then the following week beat the Falcons that we started to feel like the team was for real. But even some of that was on the back of the defense. He had a great game on Thanksgiving against Detroit where it started to gain that momentum. And then the way he played in the first half against new Orleans, you went, Oh my gosh,

this is going to be crazy. He's going to out-duel Drew Brees. It's not even close. And then he throws that interception that opens the door, just the crazy pass that started the momentum rolling for the Saints. Same thing happens in Philadelphia, but they can't recover, as everyone remembers. But I see your argument for that.

I think it's a really good one. He had played in the league and just been so mediocre. And then he comes out and has this great season. My pick is Cunningham because he retired. That's my number two. Yeah. I mean, and not only see with Cunningham, I think if you had told someone at the beginning of the year,

because he had won a playoff game against the Giants, it was hideous, but they won in 97. And if you had told someone that Randall ended up starting and winning games, you'd probably not be terribly shocked. Oh yeah. I mean, the guy was a pro bowler and one of the most exciting players, but it was the heights that that was able to reach. I mean, we've seen pop-up seasons where a quarterback plays as well as Case Keenum. We've never seen a guy retire, come out of retirement, play completely different football than he played before when he was in the league, and then reach the greatest offensive production

in the history of the game, which he had never even done when he was one of the league's biggest superstars with the amazing Philadelphia Eagles teams that he was with in the late eighties and early nineties. Cunningham was the top for me just because of the level he was able to bring that team to that no one could have ever seen coming from any quarterback. I mean, even if you had said that John Elway put up those type of numbers, you would have been shocked because they were so good, much less a guy that the league had just completely left for dead and had been a backup in 97.

That's the difference maker to me for the most out of nowhere is that Cunningham was able to go 15 and one and put up those numbers. Yeah, I agree. That's, that's a great point. And you know, the, the fact that he was a guy, like you said, that was obviously really good for a number of years in Philadelphia with the Eagles. And like you said, he got kind of casted off and sort of forgotten about for that year in 96 where he was out.

And then the Vikings just bring him back in 97 as a backup. You know, Brad Johnson gets hurt that year and then randall has to come in and uh and and you know found a way to win a playoff game and and that playoff win at the giants was huge because that was denny green's first playoff win there was a lot of speculation that if they didn't win that game denny was going to get fired um and so and they were down by two scores late in that game they found a way to get the ball back with the onside kick and then eddie murray kicked the kick the winning field goal eddie old man eddie murray talk about pop-up seasons too he is a guy that had been in the league uh since the 80s since the early 80s and he was kicking for the vikings that year so

yeah i mean and and for Randall then to come back in 98 again Brad Johnson gets hurt again and Randall just explodes with you know an MVP caliber season at the E1 some sort of an MVP that year wasn't like the official MVP I think Terrell Davis got that for getting the 2,000 yards that year with the Broncos, but he got some form of an MVP award for his performance that year with the Vikings in 98, obviously with the 15-1 year. Yeah, Randall was great and really a remarkable sort of comeback season for him after being two years prior being sort of left out in the cold. So I did not have Keenum as even number two on my list. I had actually Joe Cap as number two on my list.

Because Joe Cap in 1969 was not the starter to begin the season. He had played with the team the previous year, maybe even a couple of years, just trying to get the franchise on track as a CFL guy that Bud Grant knew from CFL and just brought him with him just exist here for a while while we build up this football team. He's not the starter. He comes in, throws seven touchdowns, still comes up as Sam Darnold's putting up his fifth. It's like, well, it's not the team record because joe cap with his seven touchdown passes in 1969 and well joe cap did only average 130 yards passing per game so it was a little bit of game managing and running over people and so forth he was able to make big plays at the right times

take them to the super bowl i, if you had told anybody before that season, the guy who's not even starting, who had not had any type of career before that would show up and take them to the Superbowl. Yes. With a lot of other things around him, especially on the defensive side, still played quarterback well enough to get them to that point and then fall short to the Kansas City Chiefs. But then following season, he has a contract dispute with the Vikings. He goes to the Patriots. He goes like one in 11 or something and is out of the league. So we're talking about a guy who didn't even play in the NFL, was barely in the NFL, randomly takes a team to a Super Bowl, and I think it was 12-1 as a starter that year,

and then is gone. Just poof. At least Case Keenum got a couple other contracts. The Broncos gave him a contract. The Washington gave him a contract. And not only that, but when you talk to any of the OG fans, they will tell you Joe C any of the OG fans, they will tell you Joe Cap was the most entertaining, root-for-able, lovable, great teammate, heart and soul, tough, all that stuff, football

player, one of the most fun and entertaining, but also, in my mind, totally out of left field. So I had him number two, and then case Keenum number three. Is this where we start to get, who did you have? Number three. Did you have cap number three? I actually did have Joe cap number three.

I had, I had Wade Wilson, number four, Wade Wilson in 1987, getting into the Vikings and NFC title game with, with that year. But on Joe cap, you know,

my stepdad, Oscar Reed, he played with Joe Cap on that 69 Vikings team. And Oscar would literally tell me about how Joe Cap, by far and away, like toughest guy on the team. Just tough, ultimate tough guy. Like, we'll get into a fight with you if he needs to. You know, he's one of those guys like, you know, usually the quarterbacks are the ones that, you know know the offensive lineman and some of the other players

are are you know they're protecting the quarterback joe cap would go and get in a fight to protect like other guys to protect like the receivers and the running backs and and things like that um but yeah just all-time like tough guy gritty um some really good performances obviously in 1969 uh so great player but yeah i had um i had wade wilson behind joe cap at number four as well for um just sort of that wasn't an entire season i think he only started like half the games that year and that was the strike year as well so they had replacement players early in the season but wade wilson stepped in as a starter and that offense in the playoffs against the saints and then they go into san francisco i mean him and that connection with

him and anthony carter unstoppable uh during that playoff run and then obviously things came to a halt in washington in the nfc title game but wade wilson who had kind of just been a guy he had been with the vikings for a few years, had started a couple games, but hadn't really come to the forefront yet until 87. And then after that, he had kind of become a semi-regular starter for a few years after that. So yeah, I got Wade Wilson at number four. This is where Darnold starts to enter the discussion.

I also had Wade Wilson at number four because he gets to the NFC championship. He is one pass away from maybe tying that game against Washington, potentially going to the super bowl, but Wade Wilson being just a backup Tommy Kramer's the guy Wilson would get in a bunch when Kramer would get hurt or, you know, whatever might happen to Tommy Kramer throughout the course of a game. Uh, and so, well, they used to just bench quarterbacks at times in the eighties and like, Oh, this guy's not playing well. We'll just, cause I think that, uh, Kramer started the new Orleans game and then they benched him and put in Wade Wilson.

And then Wade goes completely nuts. Once again, the heights, the level of performance that Wade Wilson was able to put up in those follow in those two playoff games out of nowhere, off the bench, launching bombs, throwing to Anthony Carter a million times, just some of the best quarterback games in the franchise's history. And where did it even come from? Just the guy who came off the bench. Okay. He's throwing it deep. And he actually had a really good 88 season. We don't remember it as well because San Francisco came back and then they were really San Francisco in 88, but he actually had a, I think a seven and five season, really good statistics, high quarterback rating

yards per attempt and all that. So under those circumstances, he was a pretty good quarterback for those, for those teams, but in the 87 playoffs and our friend Patrick Royce, he loves to talk about this, that they lost a couple of games going into the playoffs and he wrote they're done. They're frauds. They can't win. And they came out and won two playoff games and went to the NFC championship and that close. And if they end up going to the Super Bowl, I don't think there's any doubt that they win it based on how things ended up playing out in 87. But nonetheless, that feels a little more random. Now, this is where I have Sam Darnold. And the reason is because Sam Darnold was drafted number three overall that, well, it is crazy. And well, his past history had

very little to suggest that this level of performance was possible. We knew that he was stupid talented. We knew that they had Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison and TJ Hawkinson was coming back and that Kevin O'Connell had gotten a lot of yardage out of Nick Mullins. And they were really this close. I mean, think about how close this team is to have won all those games with the backup quarterbacks. They lose with the Dobbs game in Denver because of a Russell Wilson prayer that gets caught in the back of the end zone. Mullins throws the interception at the end of the Lions game. The Brandon Powell tush push and insane T. Higgins catch and touchdown

that cost them three games. Otherwise, they're a 10-7 football team and winning more games than they're losing with Josh Dobbs, who's QB3 right now in San Francisco, and Nick Mullins, who they went out and got Daniel Jones as a, just in case. So that's two guys that even want starting. So we knew that we knew the circumstances. Everybody talked about it.

There were a lot of, even in the athletic and their QB tears article, there were some executives saying, you know, he might end up being a second tier quarterback this year. Like, don't be surprised. I kind of,

I wrote a piece about that. A lot of the draft analysts who loved them were still holding out hope. So the fact that the world had not given up on Sam Darnold yet open the door to this possibility. What I would not have figured is that again, the height could be this high. It's not the best quarterback in the league. It's not Randall Cunningham quite to an MVP level, but 11 and two, that that's the part, the fact that he's leading game winning drives, he's become the leader of the team,

all that stuff. I thought it was going to be much more. Whoa. He threw for 400 yards. Whoa. He threw for four touchdown or four interceptions. You know, after Jacksonville,

I wrote an article like, like hey this is the world you live in with Sam Darnold like strap in you haven't had to strap in it's been actually just really good recently the consistency of his excellence has been the most shocking part to me the fact that and I and I'm I love that you brought up the Jacksonville game you know because it was a bad game for him and the fact that he has really bounced back from that, and we have not seen a performance even remotely close to that since, I think is the most important part of all of this is that it shows sort of a mental toughness that Sam has that he's really displayed this year. You know, again, the Jets game in London wasn't very good for him either. You know, he was able to kind of bounce back from that after that.

So, yeah, I think the overall sort of resiliency and maybe that part of it has surprised me about him. But maybe it shouldn't surprise me because this is a guy that went through it all in, you know, with one of the most dysfunctional franchises, which is also in one of the big, you know, the biggest market in the United States, where all of the eyes, all of the media, everything is on him, paying attention to him. Every radio show is ripping him to shreds, ripping the head coach, ripping the organization, all of that. He's part of all of that sort of buzzsaw of negativity in his years with the New York Jets. And then he goes to Carolina, and there's a little bit of dysfunction there. Not a very good head coach in place there with Matt Rule.

And he just sort of overcomes that a little bit, plays a little bit better. Not quite as bad a situation as it was in New York, but still kind of a bad situation. And then goes to San Francisco and then comes, makes his way here after that. And so it's almost like it's, it's very shocking, but you then kind of wonder,

should we be shocked because he's already in a lot of ways, a scene like the worst that a young quarterback could see and he's overcome it and he's here and he's playing well um it's just been really impressive but i'm with you i didn't think i thought he would play well i did not think he would have 28 touchdown passes and the vikings would be at 11 and 2 after 13 games i did not see that happening at all i did did not. I thought, well, I guess I would have thought after halfway through the season with the number of turnover worthy plays that he had just in total kind of started against green Bay and then definitely a few against the jets and all

of that came to fruition against Jacksonville. I would have thought this is going to be almost the Jamis Winston-y like type of season where, yeah, he's got to throw a lot of touchdowns because they can't run the ball into the end zone. And then there's just going to be these crazy interceptions and we're all going to ride the ride and see what happens. His last four games, he has played like a Joe Burrow, like a top level pocket quarterback. Some of it's been playmaking, spectacular at times, but the majority of his passing has been from the pocket with really terrific decision-making. And I remember in Tennessee coming out of that game, going back and watching the tape and going, okay, I know it's Tennessee, but my goodness, he was good in that game. And there were a couple of times where he threw the

ball away. There were a couple of times where he took sacks, but they were the right sack to take. And I think when you have a downfield offense, that's just going to be part of it that comes along with it. And he's been so good at not fumbling when he gets sacked two hands on the football for Darnold or deciding when to slide when he's out in space, right? And like things like that from his decision-making perspective have just been very good and then accurate throwing the football in ways that he has never been before. So him changing as an actual quarterback, because there was always a bit of a stiffness to his game, a bit of like a hesitation maybe, even when he played that game in San Francisco. But he was playing in rhythm, on time time on the mark against Atlanta.

And if that continues, then he might move up this list. I did want to ask where, or if you would have far in this conversation, because we can just, we can just put aside the whole far thing and what he's become and all that stuff. We don't need to talk about that,

but the, it was out of nowhere. And so there might be an argument for putting Favre higher on this list than Sam Darnold higher, even maybe than where it's Wade Wilson, because Wade Wilson was just a backup and Favre was washed. I mean, his arm, his arm looked like it was total dust when he was with the New York Jets. I may put it right after Darnold because he was still Brett freaking Favre.

He's still one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time. And it wasn't like he retired like Randall Cunningham. He's still in the league. He had been great for half the season with the New York Jets. So it's surprising. And it was out of nowhere, but I don't know if it was mind-blowingly surprising. You were here. I wasn't. So you could tell me better if at the time it was totally shocking or if everyone went, okay, well, it is

Favre. I think it's kind of a conversation of like team expectations compared to Brett Favre expectations, because I think the thought was that, okay, they're bringing in Brett Favre because they're essentially, this team is really good. And they're essentially a quarterback away from being a championship contender.

And so the idea of bringing in Brett Favre was like, okay, let's go. You've got Brett Favre here. This team is ready to take that next step and be a contending team for a Super Bowl. But I think that is separate from the actual performance that they got from Brett Favre because I think that, to your point, the level that he played at, which was an MVP level, I don't think a lot of people anticipated. I thought people felt like myself included, thought he'd play well. He was stepping into a system that he was very familiar with, sort of that West Coast, Andy Reid, Mike Holmgren, West Coast, a lot of play actions, bootleg, stuff like that type of offense that he played in for years in Green Bay. But to have 33 touchdown passes and only seven picks and throw for 4000 yards and be like in the conversation for MVP.

I mean, Peyton Manning won the MVP that year because he was just just out of out of out of this world good that year for the Colts. But yeah, I did not anticipate him being this, that good that year. And I remember texting a good friend of mine, Ross Brendel, who you know very well. I just remember texting him that year. It was like late in the season. They were like 12, 13 games in. And I was just texting him like, I can't believe Brett Favre has been this good.

I'm not surprised that the Vikings have won this many games. But, like, this guy's been crazy good. Out of this world good. And, Collin, the other thing about that, too, was this was – we still had not seen a quarterback at that age, at 40 years old, play at that level yet. We saw it later on with Brady and Breeze and Aaron Rodgers winning MVPs in their late 30s and things like that. But this was kind of the first time we saw a quarterback play well at the age of 40 and play this well, like at an elite level. So yeah, I mean, I think as far as pop-up season goes, you have to have a conversation about Brett Favre in 2009, just because the thought was that he was

going to be good, but I don't think anybody thought he would be like elite level, one of the two or three best quarterbacks in the league good, which he was that year and when you consider where aaron rogers was headed at that time to beat him a couple times and the real thing i remember because obviously i'm paying attention to one of the best teams in the league at that point being the minnesota vikings and i just remember thinking like ironically in the season i can believe Favre's not throwing picks because he's throwing so many interceptions. I can't believe how safe he's playing with the football. They were on national TV a lot that year,

and I just remember watching the San Francisco game specifically, and when he made that throw to the back of the end zone, that's where I thought, and that might have been week two, but I thought, uh-oh, that's where i thought that might have been week two but i thought uh-oh like that's brett farve everybody because he had played the bills the previous year and that's where i was in buffalo and he just didn't look like he had a whole lot at that point and when he made that throw like okay i guess the shoulder is healed but as the season went along you just expected the same thing that happened with the

jets because they got off to a hot start i forget what it was maybe they were like eight and two or something and then they just fell completely off the map so i assume that was what was going to happen and it probably took you guys here until late in the season to say all right like this this isn't going to just disappear the same way that we've done here with Darnold and the same way with Case Keenum, it always kind of follows this arc where when you didn't expect it to be this good, you're always going to be more skeptical

that it can really stay at this high of a level. I had after this, I don't know how deep you made your list. This is about, I stopped at five okay okay I had Sam Bradford and I know that the 2016 team you don't have to tell me how disappointing that was what an introduction to Minnesota Vikings football that was for me in my first year on the beat, but he had a great season overall and they really should have made the playoffs. They botched a bunch of games at the end, Thanksgiving, Washington, Blair Walsh, and he played well. It was a little bit of a check down type of season. Not that you could blame him because the offensive line was horrific. They didn't have a run game. Once the defense got hurt, they were less dominant,

but Sam Bradford's reputation before he showed up in Minnesota was this guy just stole money from the national football league, like a train robber, uh, or a thief in the night, just like made so much money, never won any games, never did anything for anybody. And not that that was necessarily his fault with the injuries and with the Rams and their franchise and so forth, but he proved that he could play. There were enough big throws, big games. He, you know, his accuracy, that where adam phelan really exploded as a risk as a big-time receiver in the league and you could say the same thing for stefan diggs where digs before 2016 is like oh well this fifth round rookie like might be something and then you come out of 2016

saying this uh this guy is going to be a star for you going into the future and that's what sam bradford throwing him the football. When they traded for him, though, this would be the counter argument. When they traded for him, the expectation was that he makes the playoffs because they traded a first round pick for him. They gave up so much that it still was disappointing, even though he outperformed everything that he had previously done yeah i you know and i just remember that his first start the sunday night game against the

packers at us the first vikings first ever home game at us bank stadium um and i think the final score was like 17 14 or something like that it wasn't like a super high scoring game but like sam bradford to step in there and make some of the throws that he was making after being he had been with the team for like a week and a half you know what i mean like they had just traded for him before the season started have the season opening game against tennessee that sean hill started and and won um but for sam to like step into that starting spot after being with the team for nine days or whatever it was, and to play as well as he did, was really, really impressive. And that part of it may have been probably the most out-of-nowhere aspect of that season was for him to step in like that. But yeah, like the expectations has the whole thing very complicated because, like you said, they used the first round pick to get Sam because Teddy had gotten hurt with the tragic injury. And so the expectation was that they were going to build off

of what they did the year before, which was going 11-5, winning the division, got this great defense. You know, the Adrian Peterson thing kind of changed things a little bit too because he had gotten hurt um and missed most of that season so the running game was really impacted uh by that and the offensive line as we know well documented was terrible uh that year but i think to your point for sam to play as well as he did from an individual standpoint and for, you know, guys that you didn't really expect Adam Thiel and Stefan Diggs to emerge the way that they did into really good, legit, you know, options as weapons

in the passing game, I think was really impressive. And Sam had a lot to do with that. The way he was able to get those guys the football was a big part of that. So, yeah, I mean, it was a little bit of turmoil that year, too. That was the year that Norv quit. And Zimmer. Yeah, and the Zimmer-Eye thing.

That was the Dallas game that Mike Prefer coached because Zimmer was out that they lost at home. That should have been like a roughing the passer call on Sam Bradford late in that game. Unlike the two-point conversion, I think. They were trying to tie the two-point conversion or something. How the hell do I remember that?

But yeah, I mean, it's kind of a... That's a complicated one because Sam himself playing as well as he did, kind of a pop-up year but the overall expectations for the team was kind of a letdown disappointing season 2016 i'm sure that people have this that had social lives as as kids and high schoolers where maybe you have a summer, maybe it's between high school and college or something where it just sticks out in your mind and you remember everything that happened that summer.

That's 2016 to me. Like just the Dallas game where Zimmer didn't coach. I remember who jumped off sides on the two point conversion because it was Jeremiah Searles who now does the show with me. But everything like feeling drop in the punt in that game and just like everything about that season was so wild that it is just burned in my mind as the first season that I covered. But from Sam Bradford's perspective, I think that he still proved

that he was better than what he had ever been before. That the true Sam Bradford was a supremely talented dude who if he had some receivers, and I say had good coaching, Pat Shermer was good that year. If he had had Pat Shermer, a good system, a good organization, and been healthy, that he could have been a quality quarterback. I don't know if he ever would have lived up to what he was supposed to be because of the injuries, but had that not happened, he could have been better after that. I mean,

you've got your Gus for odds. You've got your Jim McMahons, uh, you know, leading teams to the playoffs, Gus getting benched for the playoffs. And then Tavares throwing the interception in the post season, things like that. Um, but I think those are the main ones and Darnold is right in the middle. And it really depends on how far he goes to top Joe cap, to top case Keenum, to top Randall Cunningham. It's going to take a lot. It's going to take a lot in the post season, uh, in order to be able to do that. So, uh, let's, um, answer some, some questions here.

And then I want to get to our discussion about the Chicago bears who, by the way, the Vikings are playing this week. The just have not brought it up at all. They're playing. So we've got some fun stuff with that. And then our pickups from underdog fantasy. Unfortunately, I ripped open a scab for Marley.

It was week three against the 49ers and Marley apparently had tickets and got threatened by your boss to be terminated if you went to the game i'm sorry that happened i did not know that you had viking week three related trauma so you missed the throw from brett farve to greg lewis because of your work i am sad about that sorry the home opener that year sorry about that marley um things happen keith sweat says uh who wins between the 2017 team and the 2024 team it's a good question who do you think it's a tough question it is a tough one because i'm thinking about, okay, Case Keenum, turnover-worthy throws. This is a Vikings, this 2024 Vikings defense thrives on forcing turnovers

and being opportunistic. But that defense in 2017 was so good. They were so good in 2017. How about Xavier Rhodes versus Justin Jefferson? It would have been an Island situation. We never see that. We never see that, but we would have seen that.

That would have been really, really fun. And even let's, let's say for, for the sake of, of sort of a fantasy conversation, let's say Christian Derrissaw is, is healthy and he's matched up against Everson Griffin on the left side.

That is fun. Sign me up for that matchup. I'm going to say I'll say 2017 will win the game, but I think it'll be really close because I think Case Keenum would turn the ball over a couple of times, keeping, keeping the 24 team in the game. Uh, but that defense in 17 was so good. And I think it might present some challenges, um, for this current offense in Sam Darnold. And they really close though. Yeah. 17, they shut down a lot of good offenses.

There were a lot of good teams. They faced Atlanta and gave up maybe nine points i think to atlanta some 13 to 9 nonsense in that one uh the number one offense in the league the los angeles rams came into u.s bank stadium left with seven total points i've got to say that this often and this offense is flawed enough to where it would have a tough time they almost never gave up big plays because roads was so good, but Trey Wayne's had a really good year that year as well. Terrence Newman was out there.

The coverage underneath was incredible with Eric Hendricks and Anthony Barr. Harrison Smith was playing at an MVP level. It would have been tough. It would have been tough for the 2024 team to beat them. And 17 had the fatal flaw that this current Vikings team has, which is they could stay on the field all day because Keenum didn't turn it over that year. They also ran the football well. Kyle Rudolph was very, very good for them underneath.

And so Keenum could just have these long, long, long drives that season. I'm going to say that head-to to head 2017 wins, but I don't know if that means the results will be different this year. I think the NFC was better in 2017. Philadelphia was a monster. The Atlanta Falcons had just gone to the Superbowl the year before. Like there was a lot of LA. There was like a lot of really good teams this year. I look at it and go a lot of really flawed teams this year. A question from a must. And sir,

would it have been better if the Vikings lost 2019 wildcard game to the saints, they would have fired Zimmer and Spielman and not wasted a couple more years, but then who knows if they ever get Justin Jefferson. Yeah. I don't know if it would have been a trade situation for Stefan Diggs, because if you recall, Stefan Diggs demanded a trade ish on Twitter after they announced an

extension for Kirk cousins. So maybe if they had been moving on from Kirk cousins, but think about it this way, let's look at the quarterbacks from that draft. You might've ended up trading up trying to get Justin Herbert or something, or just ended up picking Jalen hurts or Jordan love. And if you did that and paired them with digs and Thielen, they probably would have had a pretty darn good and Delvin cook in his prime. Maybe you get an offensive coach. Like I think even if you didn't end up with jefferson it would have gone the right way or maybe digs would have asked it out asked out anyway they had do they have two picks was that yeah i think they had two picks in 2020

and i think that's right and uh maybe the other one was gladney um but it's possible they could have ended up with a quarterback and justin. And then who knows where the next couple of years go? So, yeah, I was talking about that earlier with Lindsay Rhodes. You guys can check out that interview. And we were talking about just how things in the playoffs change future plans, even though they probably shouldn't. They do. Like in 2019. That's an interesting hypothetical.

Well, did you want to answer that one well i while you were talking i was looking up the head coaching hiring class from 2020 and so my party stefan stefanski yeah yeah yeah he probably would have been it yeah two-time coach of the year. So if they had gotten, if they had kept Stefanski dig stays, they draft, they were in position to draft hurts and love.

So if they had drafted one of those two guys and kept digs and feeling and Rudolph and cook, and then got $30 million to spend spend where would they be at now i think it would have gone pretty good honestly yeah it probably probably would have gone pretty good um but if they don't you're right getting jefferson if they didn't get him all the same in that draft then that does make things a little bit harder, but they, but digs was still an elite receiver for how many more years it was really only until the end of 2023 that dig started to not be an elite wide receiver. And the same thing with Adam Thielen,

where I felt like it was the second half of 2022. So they would have had at least a couple of years with those guys being a really good combination. It's an interesting hypothetical track. Pat says, Matt, you always talk about how no one cheers in the press box. Was that the case during the Minneapolis Miracle? So no one cheers for the Vikings in the press box except for the team employees, which they, that's fine.

And the Packers team employees who sit next to us and they cheer for everything. And it's awkward because there's no other noise really. And they're like screaming and celebrating. It's weird anyway, but we are allowed to say, Holy bleep. And, and, uh,

certainly there was a lot of what, you know, Holy, you know, there was a lot of that. There was a lot of that you know holy you know there was a lot of that there was a lot of that uh shock happens but none of us none of us cheer for things to happen just in general like when you're working at a game you're way too focused on trying to write the story trying to take notes trying to pay attention to every single detail. There's no like headspace for, I hope this team wins or that team wins. It's just not even part of the conversation. When the ball goes up in the air, I look at the secondary. I'll never forget

that. I look up. Well, I always watch. I always actually look to the coverage first because I want to see what the other team is doing coverage wise, where the football might be going. And then I kind of work back to the quarterback to see what's happening. And I looked at the coverage and I went, where is everyone in my brain? I was like, where are their defenders? And the ball goes up. I didn't see him throw it. I only see it come in two digs and him catch it and then up the sideline. But it was just holy, every swear word that you know, in the press box at that point. Just disbelief, shock, everything.

Not, yay, they won, but I cannot believe what I just saw in front of my face. So that's kind of how it is for me. Where were you during the Minneapolis Miracle? I was at our old work stomping grounds at 1500 ESPN watching the game. And I remember myself and Jonathan Harrison, we were in the production room watching the game on a big screen

and we saw Diggs run for the touchdown and we both just went absolutely ape bleep. I went screaming through the hallways. And I know that I think it was Phil and Judd were getting ready to go on the air for Ventline afterwards. And I'm going crazy. So as they're getting ready to go on the air, I open the studio door. And then Phil looks back at me and goes, wait, we're going out of here. We're going in the air. And I was like, oh, wait, okay, I'm out of here. Back it up. So that was kind of funny. But yeah, that was, that was, that was some day that was, that was the most shocked, amazed, happy, excited I have really ever been as someone who has grown up cheering for this team and following this team and analyzing this team in my whole life.

So that was some night. I'll never forget it. And I'll just remember, too, that when a one, I want to say, was it, I think it was Anthony Harris who snuck in and got a tackle on when the Saints decided to run at Linval Joseph. When they could have ended the game, they handed off straight up the middle. Every team had failed running at Linval that year. That's what they chose to do when they needed a yard to try to win the game. Hey, Dan Campbell would have gone for that one. I'm just saying, just saying Dan Campbell wouldn't have given up the Minneapolis miracle. But

I remember when they stopped them, I deleted my article because my article had been that Keenum led this playoff win and they staved off the comeback. Because remember, Breeze had to complete this insane pass on fourth down. So I had been writing the whole time. They were ahead the whole time. I was writing like, oh, they staved off the comeback. They defeat the Saints. They're moving on to the NFC championship. And then I had to delete a lot of that.

And when they lined up to kick the field goal, I started writing as fast as I could. Case Keenum leads miracle comeback. Just writing the story as I could. Case Keenum leads miracle comeback, just writing the story with that lens. Because my thought was if he didn't, then no one's reading this and I'll just write it later because no one's going to care. They're just going to be pissed. And if he does, I'll be able to publish it right away and be the first guy out on the internet with the story about what happened to US Bank Stadium. So I was the first one to hit publish i'm pretty sure on my game story after that one so anyway yeah that's that's that's what that's what i was doing in the minneapolis

miracle that that's still and we've talked about this off the air that fourth down was a fourth and eight throw by breeze to one of the most cold-blooded, just absolute dagger throws I've ever seen to this day. Seven, eight years later, still one of the craziest, most diabolical throws ever, just considering

situation, the game, level of game, everything. So yeah, that was nuts. Digital Plains Media says, Matthew and Manny, can this team win the Super Bowl? level of game everything so yeah that was that was nuts uh digital planes media says matthew and manny can this team win the super bowl well yes i think they can yeah would i give you a thousand dollars to bet that they will no but can they i just look at the competition. I just look at every other team in the NFC and go, I don't know. No one is crazy better. There's other teams that are also good.

Their road might be a little more challenging. It would be really weird if they had to go on the road for the first two and then played the NFC championship at home. That's a possibility. Can they beat the lions? Yes. I mean, that's a team that they've played neck and neck with for the last couple

of years. And can they beat Philly? I don't know. Like Philly, Philly has as many two score wins or more as the Vikings do this year. They played a lot of close games and some of them with bad teams and they would be tough for this team, but it's, it's not impossible. And when your quarterback's playing like this, yeah, yeah, they can. Yeah. Are they going to, I have no idea. That's why they play the games,

but I've always, I have always stuck with this. If you win 12 or more games and have a plus 100 point differential, you're in the club. Like that's, that's the plus 100 point differential you're in the club like that's that's the knock knock you're in the door for teams that belong in the super bowl conversation right now they have 11 wins and they're plus 99 so they're there their quarterbacks playing like it they do have the defensive talent to play like it maybe i don't know well i'll have to just watch together crazy talent on offense crazy talent on offense with the quarterback the receivers you know the running back when he's when he's right and he's healthy the tight end is really really good the offensive line isn't isn't a train wreck they can do it it's possible all right so we had planned to talk about all the chicago bears

players that killed the vikings through the year but i feel like that takes down the vibe after being asked if they could win the super bowl and we say yes because that means they're gonna lose the bears but uh real quick just this is usually our preview show for Sunday and we talk about the upcoming game and everything, but are we being too cavalier about the fact that they're playing the bears? It is the bears. They do have a tendency to do stuff that annoys the Minnesota Vikings over their history. It just feels like they are as down and out mood wise as any team that we've seen in a long time.

Yeah, they just seem like they're in a lot of just, it just seemed like they're in disarray. Like there's just not a lot there. And I know like Thomas Brown takes over and he has his press conference and he's talking about all these things that are going to be different from, know the way it was with maddie eberflus and all of that um but it just then they go into san francisco and play a banged up niners team you know granted they had brock purdy back but still just a team that is reeling from a lot of injuries and really struggling and they just the bears just no show i mean it's not even like a competitive game like it had been against Detroit. You know what I mean? And they had a sort of a longer break in between that Lions game and getting ready for San Francisco.

They had a couple extra days to prepare for that after firing Iberflues. And it just no show. They just didn't show up. And so that has me thinking that this is going to continue on on monday you know the vikings are having are have an extra day now to sort of rest their bodies a little bit um but i will say it's a it's a divisional game the bears even though they're kind of in disarray right now, they're still really talented. Caleb Williams is talented. The receivers are talented.

They've got some good players on defense that can cause some problems. I think it will be, I can't really see this as a total annihilation of the Chicago bears. I don't think it's going to be like a 23-20 type of game. I could see the Vikings winning by like 10, maybe like a 27-16, 27-17 type of game. I think the Bears will play hard and compete, but they just don't have it together right now,

and the Vikings are just clicking right now. Everything's really going well for them. Their defense is getting gashed a little bit bit but they're coming through with big turnovers and big plays on that side the Vikings are um and I think they'll just take care of business on Monday night I don't know why I have a weird feeling about this one I partly I think because well I always think if a team gets murdered the week before, you don't want to face them because teams always put so much effort into the next week, the kitchen sink game, like Thomas Brown's going to be doing everything he possibly can.

And every time we think that a team is totally just garbage, they can't possibly compete. Sometimes they bounce back. I mean, Carolina was that way. They were getting throttled by new Orleans earlier in the season. And then now they're playing Kansas city and Philadelphia right to the final buzzer in Tampa Bay. A lot of really good teams. No one's ever as bad as their worst moments. And Chicago does have a lot of talent on the roster. It's also just hard to win seven games in a row in the NFL. Just all the games are close. Random stuff happens.

The last time you played them, you won in overtime. It's just not, it's not easy to do. I don't know. I have a weird, kind of little weird feeling about that. A lot of stress over the last couple of weeks. Late game wins that sometimes the levy breaks a little bit, but expectations are still that, yeah, they win by 10 points. All right, let's get to these. Speaking of this Bears game,

let's get to these underdog fantasy hires and lower. Insider podcast. You must check out the Pickhams, but there's all sorts of fantasy games going on here as we go down to the wire of the NFL season. You could play playoff fantasy. It's great. You could jump in. So if you missed your opportunity back in, I don't know, June and you want to play some fantasy because all your teams are screwed, underdog fantasy. There you go. Good place and an easy place to use their app.

If you use the code purple, that will help the show. Also, you get a special pick. First time deposit offer up to a thousand dollars in bonus cash. Lots to do over there on Underdog Fantasy. Beautiful website. Must be 18 or older. Terms apply. Concerned with your play? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit www.ncpgambling.org. I don't know why I wrote www.ncpgambling.org. I don't know why I wrote www.

You ever, like, when I watch those old games from 99, it'll be Dick Enberg going www.nfl.com. Anyway, so here's your numbers for this week, Manny. Caleb Williams, will he pass for higher or lower than 215.5 yards against the Minnesota Vikings on Monday night? I will say higher. GDP says you've had a weird feeling about almost every game this year. Here's the thing. I'm not great at picking football games.

You know why? Because nobody is, nobody is, uh, I guess what, what were the other games I had weird feelings about? I didn't actually, I didn't the worst game they played in Jacksonville.

I, I was like, Oh, well they should just kill this team. And even the Rams, because I didn't know Puka Nakua was playing. I remember picking something like 27 to 10 for the Rams. I think it's only Atlanta last week

because I figured Kirk would bounce back. And that was somewhat right, except for two passes. It's 21-21, what, in the fourth quarter? Start the fourth, yeah. Yeah, and so don't tell me you weren't nervous that I was right about that one, but I was not. So we'll see. It's the Bears.

How could you not be anxious about that? What did I say? Two 15.5 higher or lower. What do you got? I will say higher. I think teams have been kind of throwing the ball on the Vikings a little bit. The last,

the last few weeks kind of makes me raise my eyebrow a little bit. But I think, you know, two 15, it seems kind of like a low number uh for caleb williams i think he'll throw for for a higher number than that i think so too they're gonna have to throw it a lot no matter what happens i don't think their defense can shut down this offense however they did slow down justin jefferson and let me put the biggest air finger quotes of slow down Justin Jefferson,

because Addison throttled them. Hockinson throttled them. Aaron Jones throttled them. And I think he had like 60 yards in pass interference yardage in that game. And he caught a key third down to get a first down on the overtime drive so they slowed down justin jefferson last time his higher lower number is 83.5 yards will he have more uh higher or lower than that number man i will say higher i think he's gonna want he's gonna want revenge yeah yeah jalen johnson the what they did last time they put jalen johnson on him and then two other guys looking at him in that game maybe they'll have had uh paid for that by giving up i forget what it was 300 yards passing 100 yards rushing all that and maybe they'll be a little bit

more nervous about it roma dunzey who's just been kind of a guy this year I mean it's just such a miserable team 40.5 yards do you think that Roma Dunze has a breakout game against the Minnesota Vikings higher or lower oh I'm sorry higher or lower 40.5 yards uh I'll say

higher but not much higher yeah he's gonna throw to somebody i like that i like that maybe 50 yards i don't know the vikings have not been very random with their touchdowns it's been jefferson it's been addison every once in a while maybe a johnny munt so how about this for a touchdown would you go with i'm'm just going to name players, and you tell me if you'd pick any of these guys for a touchdown against Chicago. Ty Chandler, if he's ever allowed to play.

Josh Oliver, Cam Akers, Johnny Munt, Jalen Naylor, or CJ Hamm. Let's say we're going higher on one of them over point or higher than 0.5 touchdowns. Which one of those guys, Ham, Naylor, Oliver, Munt, Akers, or Ty Chandler? Oliver. I'll go Josh Oliver. I think Oliver's a good pick. I also like Munt for this for, oh man, that guy, we didn't cover him. And there's a touchdown. Ty Chandler. I don't get it. You can get the ball sometimes I would have thought but no, there's just Nope. cannot go to him. Cannot be able to get them like on a screen pass or something because he's so fast. You just catch the ball.

They could execute it. Get him in the open field. What if they run a trick play with them? No, they did. How about this for trick plays? Because everybody likes to get me going on this, though. They refused. They refused to even put this man on the football field now.

And again, San Francisco earlier this year, they gave him the ball and we're going to have him throw the football field now and against san francisco earlier this year they gave him the ball and we're going to have him throw the football they don't trust him to even just run it a pitch a handoff a toss a dive and we're gonna have him throw please please stop please stop with the trick plays. Oh, man, that's the message. The final message of the week for the live shows is please stop with the trick plays. So what do you think for a score, Manny? I think 27-17, Vikings win.

I think the Bears will hang around because it's a divisional game and there's talent on that team. But I think the Vikings just it'll be, I think the bears will hang around because it's a divisional game and there's talent on that team. But I think the Vikings just being the better team being at home, that kind of that extra day to prepare as well, I think will really help in the Vikings. So maybe it'll be close late in the game and the Vikings kind of pull away and win,

win by 10 and 11 points, something like that. So 27, 17 ish, something like that. Okay. Quick, just real quick this has been a little bit weird so joel points out that uh i wrote about beau richter and he recovered a fumble against the bears this goes even farther because i wrote about sam darnold yes i wrote about his arm talent and then he went berserk in the game.

Also do not forget. I wrote about Trent Shurfield and then he had a touchdown and has been an amazing gunner ever since I wrote about, I wrote about Dale's turn this week. I'm just saying, Joel's just saying, I'm not even saying Joel's just saying, well,

getting a little more time. What do you have? 26 naps on Sunday. The last two weeks he's had 26 for each of the last two weeks. And I do want to say that I had, it was probably a 10 minute conversation with Dallas Turner the other day. I really think he's got a great attitude toward this. I do.

Some players could be very much in the, like, how dare you make me sit behind these other guys and I should be out there and I should be the star and I should be an edge rusher and I should this, this, this, this, this. That is not how Dallas Turner has approached it. He is taking in everything that everybody's trying to teach him. And I think Brian Flores wants him to have a very complex role in this defense for years to come and is not just thinking, how can I throw him on the edge and just get the most out of him right away, as opposed to creating a player that has a more dynamic role for a long period of time.

I think that's probably the right approach with Dallas Turner. And as a pure rusher, he's just, he's going to need to put on some weight. I mean, I think he's just going to need to get stronger, but that can't happen right now. It's a long, long NFL season. So I think that's what Brian Flores was talking with him about is just finding ways within the season to keep getting stronger and things like that. But the way that they're using him now, his development path, I think he's had the right attitude and you're using him now his development path i think he's had the right attitude and you're seeing him get out on the field more so i will be interested to see if there is more to come and maybe you're right maybe he has maybe it's pick six maybe

it's a strip sack i don't know i wrote about him it's got to be something so we'll see scoop and score maybe something like that could be i'm not saying joel's saying that i'm not saying that so anyway i'm in the same range as you i'm a little closer i'm like 20 24 21 like a late touchdown by the bears or something caleb's any week any week he could be uh you know explosive so they're gonna have to have a plan for him anyway an explosive an explosive week of analysis, Mr. Hill. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you all in the chat for a really fun week. Keep your eyes out for one more.

Well, I just recorded with Lindsay Rhodes, Kevin Seifert, Drew McGarry, and tomorrow doing a podcast with Andrew Kramer, more of a serious focus on the Bears and the Vikings matchup. So keep an eye out for that. It's been a really, really fun week of conversation and we will do it again. I guess it'll be next Thursday because Monday night football, I will be in the stadium. So I will see you next week, Manny. And thank you all for watching slash listening.

Football. There you go. Football. There you go. Football.