Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Reacting to Kwesi Adofo-Mensah and Kevin O'Connell's end-of-year press conferences

Episode Date: January 10, 2024

Matthew Coller and Will Ragatz on Sports Illustrated talk about what Vikings GM Kwesi Adofo-Mensah had to say about the Vikings quarterback situation and the recent draft classes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here along with Sports Illustrated's Will Regetts as we were just witness to the end of year press conference between Kevin O'Connell, Kweisi Adafomensa, and us, the Twin Cities Media. And where do you guys want to start? You want to start with the strong safety position? You know, the special teams, the kicking was addressed. We could get into, no? Is that not where we should begin? All right. So here's what Kwesi Adafomensis said about Kirk Cousins, that he wants him to return. But of course, along the way of saying he wants him to return was also yada, yada, yada. Price tag is very important. And that negotiations also with his agent, Mike McCartney are going to happen

as well. So I don't think that I came out of this and I didn't expect to feeling wildly different about the Viking stance on Kirk cousins. I believe the way that it's operated will with Kweisi Adafo Mensah is when it comes to Delvin cook, Adam Thielen, Eric Hendricks, when it's players, the organizations love, they draw a line in the sand. And if you are going to, and I think he even alluded to this, like there's a line you can't cross. And so when, if there's a line that they can't be crossed, then they won't cross it with Kirk cousins. But I also get the sense that there are a lot of people, maybe in the ownership, maybe in the head coaching chair that want more of a sure thing at quarterback than taking a risk with a rookie. So it comes down to,

can they get cousins at their price? And the other part of this, that Kirk cousins was not definitive the other day and saying that he absolutely can only return to the Vikings. He seemed kind of excited about the idea of talking about other teams. So that's my takeaway. How do you feel about it? Yeah. The good line from Kirk the other day was, you know, my kids really liked their kindergarten here, but if we got to find a good kindergarten somewhere else, we'll do it. And so it really is in a lot of ways going to come down to Kirk Cousins and his camp and what is he looking for at this stage of his career coming off the first major injury of his career he's turning 36 in August like does he

really value playing under Kevin O'Connell playing with Justin Jefferson being here is he willing to take a little bit less to do that because he thinks maybe they can do something special or is he just going to kind of continue to be the Kirk Cousins that he has been his whole career and really maximize the business side of it and say, I'm going to look for the best fit, but I'm going to probably take the most money, the most years, the best structure, whatever that looks like. Because nothing changed to me hearing from Kweisi today than when he talked after the trade deadline, he was talking about various like Dalton Reisner tight ends, all kinds of different things.

He said, you know, me wanting Kirk back is not just a me thing. It's there's a negotiation. The two sides have to come to a point where it works for both of us. And that's just kind of how it's going to work. And that's basically what he reiterated today, that he wants Kirk Cousins back. I think Kevin O'Connell certainly wants Kirk Cousins back, but there's just a price point that that has to be.

It's not like Justin Jefferson's situation where we're going to give you a blank check because you're the best receiver in the world and you're still 23 or however old Justin Jefferson is. Kirk Cousins is older. He's coming off an injury. He had a really good year this year, but there's still the entire body of work of ebbs and flows and never being close to Super Bowl contention during his six years here that has to be considered. So I don't know that I learned a whole lot here. What will be fascinating is would they re-sign Kirk to a short-term deal if that's possible and draft a quarterback will they let Kirk walk if he's just holding on to a certain number sign a bridge guy draft a

quarterback um there's a whole conversation we can have about what Nick Mullins did late in the season and what Josh Dobbs did briefly and can somebody other than Kirk Cousins really thrive in this offense that's set up so well to be a quarterback? So I don't know that we learned a whole lot new today, but it's just a fascinating offseason coming up with this quarterback decision being the only thing that really matters. You know, what's interesting to me is how often when we talk to these folks, whether it's coaches or management, that the sort of idea of them getting fired is in the air. And well, we're doing this right after Pete Carroll got fired. And a lot of people have been the entire offensive staff of the Chicago bears was also let go today, which I can't tell is a sign that they want to bring in Caleb Williams and people to work with him, or they were so unhappy

with how Justin Fields reacted to Luke Getzey and so forth. But that's another conversation. But it's just always exists in the NFL. What if I get fired? What if I do this thing and I lose my job? And then I think about how Kirk Cousins appears to be the safer option and yet has not been the safer option for previous regimes that he has been paid by and had huge cap hits by. He was been the safer option for previous regimes that he has been paid by and had huge cap hits by. He was not the safer option for Mike Zimmer and was not the safer option for Rick Spielman. And yet we still ended up with a new regime. And I wonder if the irony is lost there, because there's always sort of comments that lean that way in press conferences like that, like, well, you know, we got to kind of get this thing right and that kind of thing. And I think, well, if you bring back Cousins and you fail to meet

expectations, you're fired. Or if you draft the wrong guy, you're fired. Or if you draft the right guy, you win the Super Bowl and you're a god and they put a statue of you out front. And you know what? One of those things has less of a sample size. How Jaden Daniels would play has no sample size but kirk cousins does and i think because of all the risks that are involved the achilles the age and there's even these subtle sort of passing references when quesadilla fomenta talks to things he knows and one of the things he knows is that 36 year old quarterbacks that are not named Rodgers, Favre, or Manning do not do that well in the NFL. And one of the reasons is they get hurt.

They accumulate injuries over the years. And Joe Flacco, I guess, is spry now. But he was always a good example of a guy who had started to fade around this time of his career. And so did Matt Ryan. And Matt Ryan, no one ever really saw it coming. And so I think that what Kwesi is, I think, weighing on his mind is he knows that there's some significant risk.

He knows how much his coaching staff wants Kirk Cousins to come back. He knows that they've set records with throwing to Justin Jefferson. But he also has to be aware that if you pay $45 million to Kirk Cousins, that you could talk about your salary cap people all day long. Guess what? The salary cap people are the same.

Last people got fired. The last regime. But the salary cap guy is the same. He's very good at his job. But that doesn't bail you out when you have very thin margins to work with. No, it doesn't and it's yeah kirk cousins the idea of the safer option is really interesting because like you said he has been around when the previous regime got fired and they made their bet on him in 2018 and maybe mike zimmer didn't want to do that and

and kind of a little bit vindicated in that uh belief. But yeah, I mean, Kirk Cousins is there's a floor with him and he's going to you're not going to win three or four games. If he had stayed healthy, I think they win more than seven games this season, even even if Dobbs and Mullins got him a few wins here and there. Like he is going to give you that floor. The question that they have to ask is, do they really think that with this roster and the way that it is currently constructed? And yes, there's some foundational pieces, particularly on offense with Derrissaw and Jefferson, who were assuming that extension is going to get done and Hockinson. And they, they absolutely nailed the Jordan Addison pick, which shouldn't be glossed over. That's huge. But if you pay Kirk Cousins 40, 45 million,

you pay Justin Jefferson quarterback money, or at pay justin jefferson quarterback money or at least what was quarterback money a few years ago 30 35 something like that you got the derisaw thing coming down the line can you probably can't even consider bringing back deniel hunter at that point just if he's going to be making 25 plus elite edge rusher money like it just becomes this puzzle and i know yeah rob brzezinski's the salary cap guy. He's really good. Been here for a long time. There's things you can do with kicking money into the future, but man, they've got a lot of holes, uh, specifically on defense. And we can get into that. There's, there's cornerbacks that you need to add. There's defensive linemen that you need to add. You don't have any edge rushers under contract next year

as of right now, except for Pat Jones and Andre Carter so that's pretty bare I like you feel good about linebacker and safety but there are a lot of holes and if you bring Kirk Cousins back what is the ceiling and that's the question that we've been asking ourselves over and over and over every offseason every season for four or five six years now and it really I don't think it's changed just because Kirk Cousins had a really nice October this year in the second year under Kevin O'Connell. I do think there's some validity to the way that he played and just the mastery that he absolutely has of this offense and all the arm talent decision-making, the veteran quarterback stuff, but then it's complicated by the coming off Achilles being 36. I mean, Kwesi alluded to this before. Like I think Kirk cousins,

I don't know that we should view him completely like a typical 36 year old quarterback because of the insane obsessive amount of time that he puts into his body work and all these things you saw on the Netflix show. And this is the first injury of his career, probably a little bit more likely that it happened when he was 35 than when he was 25, but could just be kind of random. So I don't know. We'll, we'll see. That's what makes this decision so interesting is Kirk cousins is the safe option. Kevin O'Connell probably won't get fired for a while. If Kirk cousins stays around here and you keep winning eight, nine, 10 games

and his offense looks really good. And they're put up big numbers because of the talent on offense. But I mean, Casey might, if, if you just stay at this level and you never really good and they put up big numbers because of the talent on offense um but i mean quacey might if if you just stay at this level and you never really threaten and you maybe you win the nfc north occasionally when you win all your one score games but you're never on that san francisco dallas philly and those teams will change but that current tier i don't know bottoming out if you get it right you said it you get the statue if you don't know. Bottoming out, if you get it right, you said it. You get the statue. If you don't get it right, you're the Jets or you're the Browns or whatever.

And I get that people are scared of that. But you can't be scared of that because look at the Texans this year. They won two games. They got C.J. Stroud. They're set up beautifully. So I don't envy being in the decision-maker's chair this offseason. But the one thing they can hang their hat on is whoever the quarterback is going to be,

they're coming, they're coming into, or they're remaining in. If it's Kirk cousins, a really good situation. I mean, I, I just cannot have gone over their head that Nick Mullins threw for 400

yards, two games in a row. I mean, and let's be honest, Nick Mullins played well enough to win the Cincinnati game. We thought they were winning that game when we were there in Cincinnati and they're up by two scores in the fourth quarter where 99% of the time you win the game.

And Nick Mullins, despite a couple of turnovers was able to do that. They actually overall got pretty decent play from a guy who barely ever plays in the league and his borderline. They got for free for 2022, August from like the raiders or whatever it was and i know that mentally uh nick mullins is a great quarterback he really is if you could take his brain and put it in josh jobs would be incredible or at least what josh

jobs knew about this offense put it that way brain yeah yeah i wouldn't want to take away from josh jobs brain on the whole but as a football like could you get them could you you know download like the matrix yeah you get it um so i they have a lot to weigh there on the price specifically because we know they're going to negotiate and we know they're going to make an offer for kirk cousins i think this has been made clear that they're not just throwing up their hands and saying all right see you kirk happy trails pal that's not what's going on here. They are going to have that discussion. Now, my question for you, Will, is where do you think that line in the sand would be drawn? Because I would say there's two things, that the Vikings,

if they go over, are going to have a really, really tough time managing this. Or I guess in the years if they go over, if they go over two years, I don't know how you can commit to that long for somebody with the age and with the injury. And you could be, and we've seen this for many players before, completely healthy your whole career until you're not. And so that has to be a worry. And everybody's body break that breaks down eventually in the NFL. So you can't go more than two years. They wouldn't do it last year. They can't do it this year. And then I think the dollar figure has to be $40 million.

If you go over $40 million, I don't care what you do to that salary cap. I have no idea how you're bringing in talent unless you absolutely crush the draft. And even then, very dicey, like the Dallas Cowboys had to draft literally the best player in the NFL, Micah Parsons. I mean, he is, if you just took all player draft,

you got like my homes, Micah Parsons. Are you going to do that at 11th overall? Like maybe, maybe you are, but maybe you don't. And then it just, that's the only way you could survive would be to crush future drafts immediately and then have a bunch of stars on rookie contracts,

kind of like Detroit does, but how did they do it? They tanked and got all that draft capital at the top. Aiden Hutchinson was the number two overall pick. You have 11, not quite the same. I think although Parsons was taken in that range, so it's possible, but it's not super likely that you can do that. So that's my, that's my line. If you were going anywhere over two years, anywhere over 40 million, you are just asking for this not to work. I'm with you. I like both those numbers. I was even thinking like 35, although that might be just a little outdated with how these quarterback salaries just keep climbing. I think top is like Joe Burrow is like 55.

Now there's 13 players next year who are scheduled to have cap hits over 40 over 40. So 35 including Daniel Jones, 35 would would be the true like hometown discount thing that that was a phrase that came up this week. And Kirk kind of skated around it and said, you know, yeah, at this point the dollars aren't everything, but it's what the dollars represent. And that means something. So he's not just going to take kind of a number that doesn't reflect what he's accomplished in his career and the way that he was playing before getting hurt this year.

And the outside interest, which he knows will be there. Which will absolutely be there because like he said, when he was asked about the Achilles, he said, I'm not going to sell myself like this league needs quarterbacks. I know that I am a good quarterback. I think you can certainly make the case that he's in that 10 to 12 range. And that's going to be really valuable to various teams who are looking for a quarterback. So I don't think the hometown discount thing is happening. I think you could talk me into like two years, 40 million, something like that. And that would be, have to be the absolute upper echelon of it for the Vikings, because that is still a very big figure within the percentage of the salary cap.

That's still a two-year time commitment. Any more than that, I just don't think makes sense for him at this point in his career, even if that would mean giving you the flexibility to backload it and mess around with void years and do things like that. I just don't think that that's something they should keep doing and keep kicking the can on. I mean, to me, like in an absolute perfect world. Well, in an absolute perfect world, you trade up and you nail Caleb Williams or Drake May or Jane Daniels.

And then you're just you're just good. But I and we can talk about this because I think you you maybe disagree, but I think you could re-sign Kirk Cousins, and that's a decision that has to be made in March, to a two-year deal worth like $70 to $80 million. And then you could still draft a quarterback and let them sit for a year. And really, I think the argument there might be how important is the the knowledge of the offense in this system we've heard about that a bunch we've heard about kirk cousins and why he kind of seemingly took a bit of a big step forward from year one and year two to this offense is because he really mastered it he knew it and he knew the progressions and the timing and the rhythm and the intent of all these different plays. And Nick Mullins, big reason why he threw for 400 yards a couple times.

I mean, he threw a ton of interceptions, but that's kind of just what he does. But he knew that too. He had been here for two years, so he had a really good command of that. So I don't know. This might be an oversimplification. I don't know if it's a great offense to just throw a rookie into, even if that's Drake May, for example. I think maybe having that guy sit for one year, maybe even two years, probably just one under Kirk Cousins and then take the reins like that idea kind of appeals to me.

But then there's a whole kind of dynamic that comes with that. And like, what if Kirk plays really well again? Then what are you doing? So I don't know. But that that option is interesting to me. And nothing Kwesi said today to me indicated that he's ruling out something like that where you continue to live in both worlds. Folks, if you've been listening to the show, then you know how much fun we have been having with prize picks this year. Just go to prizepicks.com slash purple.

Use the code purple for a first deposit match up to 100 and let me tell you how it works if you haven't heard us talk about it enough yet or you haven't tried it yet very simple there are yardage totals on prize picks you either pick more or less and boom you are playing so last week i'm gonna be honest with you I had a very tough week I went Kirk Cousins more than 250 yards Justin Fields more than 196 and Jordan Addison more than 54 and I went 0 for 3 this is by far my worst week so this week I have to bounce back each week has been a roller coaster ride of fun and the best part is that when I have a bad week, I didn't lose much. It doesn't cost much to play.

You can turn 10 bucks into 250 very easily. And if things go sideways for you, you're not out a whole heck of a lot of money. But normally I do much better than this. So that is prizepix.com slash purple, just more or less on yardage totals. And you are in prizepix.com slash purple, the code purple for a first deposit match up to $100. So here, here's my trouble with that. Now this sounds sounds like a great idea. I'll give you a comparison. Me trying to cook, okay?

So I will go to the store and I will get ingredients and I'll look at them and I'll be like, I can do this. And then I get the stove on and everything else. And then there's a lot happening all of a sudden. And I'm like, oh, no, something's burning. What's that? When do I microwave this? How do I even do this? And then I ruined the meal. And I think that there's a little bit of this with, if you try to do too many things at once like this, if you try to play for the future and now,

uh, you can end up burning something and that would be your job. Because if you draft a first round quarterback and have cousins, you're drafting him possibly for the next regime and not even yourself. I think the Packers were an incredibly unique situation because they competed for a super bowl with the best quarterback in the world. The year after Jordan love, there was no concern that their general manager was going to get fired. They were what? 13 wins, two years in a row with Jordan loves sitting there waving from the sideline like that. That's, is that anything we've seen here? We saw a 13 win season with a negative point differential and a first round out.

So I don't know if that's really comparable. It's not Aaron Rogers history. It's not Brett Favre's history where you could just be like, my's good i mean you're fine just hey aaron go do your thing we'll just train jordan over here and then we'll be good to go the better i don't have that the better one i think is like the alex smith mahomes thing but that's a one year but then that was sitting one year and that was also you happen to luck into uh one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time with like the 12th pick they They also had to trade Alex Smith. And if I am Kirk Cousins, that no trade clause that I had before. Oh yeah. That's staying that, that right there. And remember who his agent is. If I'm Kirk Cousins agent, I wish I was man. Teach me, tell me how to be you. Uh, but if I was Kirk Cousins agent, I'd be like, we're starting

the discussion with a no trade clause. So you can't just draft a quarterback, trade my guy away to wherever you want to trade him and then put in your guy. And the what I'm talking about with that, you're drafting him for the next regime is that you you can underestimate. This is me in the kitchen. You can underestimate how hot it gets and how fast this year. People, lots of people, lots of rational people were like should they just fire kevin o'connell put flores in they're like whoa they were playing nick mullins bro relax but we there is no relax there is no r-e-l-a-x when it comes to the nfl the pressure gets ramped up fast mike vrabel has a bad year dude is out because they had no plan for the future to build around him as their coach and so forth. So, and there was no quarterback to like,

oh, we got to have him to develop the rookie who's been playing kind of thing. It just gets so hot, so fast. So if you bring back Kirk on a two-year deal and you are locked into Kirk as a two-year starting quarterback, if by the end of year two, you have an eight, nine season, you are out. And guess what? This team is prone to being impacted by luck, which even Kwesi Adafo-Menta himself mentioned. He said, we want to be so good that adversity doesn't knock us out of the playoffs. Has this team had that tendency over the last six years? Seems like every time they faced adversity

they've been knocked out of the playoffs or a difficult schedule or an injury or a left guard or a kicker or whatever else it might be so in my mind you don't get to the quarterback you draft if it goes wrong if it goes perfectly wonderfully right and you're in the divisional round each season with Kirk then okay but we haven't seen that and I guess that's what I'm saying is that everyone sort of is aware that they could get fired but underestimates how that happens yeah I the the thing that usually happens I think or at least that we saw here with Rick Spielman is like the GM stayed and then they cycled through coaches I want I feel like Kevin O'Connell's seat is safer than Kweisi Adafo-Mensah's right now.

And I don't know that you can fire a coach or you can fire a GM and keep the coach, right? I mean, I think so. That's like just a little different than what we're used to. I don't think you'd have to fire both and bring in a completely new regime. I think Kevin O'Connell has proven that he deserves to be the guy for a while, but he's part of the decision-making too. They're not totally separate, unique pieces where Kweisi Dafa-Mensa is making all these personnel decisions

and Kevin's just coaching whoever he gets. They're hand-in-hand, so if Kirk Cousins comes back and Kevin O'Connell is a big part in why that happened, then he might be liable to kind of pay the price for that too, if it doesn't work. So I understand what makes it so, so difficult and so fascinating is I understand both arguments. I understand Kevin O'Connell saying, look at how, look at the, what if this year, if Kirk had stayed healthy and what we saw from the middle two months of the season with Brian Flores defense. Imagine if that defense has a little bit more talent that we can start to draft or bring in or whatever, which obviously is harder when you're paying Kirk Cousins a lot of money. But look at the case to be made for the upside that we had on both sides of the ball this year.

And Kirk continuing to kind of get deeper and deeper into Kevin O'Connell's offense and the nuances of it and Justin Jefferson and Christian Derrisson Jordan Addison TJ Hawkins and all these different pieces and the way that that could work I understand that but I also really understand the idea of it's been six years of this like different things have been good during it. When he first came to Minnesota, the defense was really good. And then there's been offensive line issues and defensive issues and special teams and coaching, and it was Mike Zimmer.

And all throughout, the constant has been there's been kind of a ceiling on what Kirk Cousins can do when not everything is perfect around him. And you're almost never going to have that San Francisco scenario where the roster is so good on both sides of the ball, that Brock Purdy can do it and not to take anything away from Brock Purdy. But I, so I, I get that.

I also really, I get the idea of wanting to reset and wanting to have this finally be the year where, you know what, if we have to trade a bunch of picks it's easier to go from 11 to 3 than it is to go from 20 to 3 or whatever it might have been in years past and do that sign a bridge quarterback to 10 to 15 million dollar a year deal there's a bunch of guys like that that um you can have in there just kind of as an

insurance option. And maybe they even start like the first month of the season if they have to, or something. I don't know exactly how that would work, but that's the case for what we saw from Nick Mullins translating and having somebody other than Kirk really step in and thrive in this situation that's so set up for any quarterback and so i get i get both arguments and i i really do that's why it's to me it's gonna they're gonna they're gonna have legitimate interest in kirk cousins is just gonna come down to the number and then once you make that because you have to make that decision first that's what's interesting is you don't know when you're deciding um to bring kirk cousins back or not, if you're going to end up with Jaden Daniels or whoever.

You have to make that decision first and then go into the draft and see if you can make it happen to trade up to five or four or whatever. I'm going to make one more comparison that they should consider, and I'm sure that Kweisi is. So I play the guitar, right? I've been playing for a long time. And if you know the history, if you're a player, then you really understand how this works. But in the seventies and sixties, if you could play anything other than just basic chords, if you could play up the neck, if you could do soloing, Oh my God, were you good at that instrument? Guitars were harder to play.

The distortion didn't echo very well. The training was more difficult to find now i have no idea where this is going okay now every person can go onto youtube and become a shredder and the young players even people who are 10 years younger than me are so much better than my generation of players because we learned out of books where they learned out of YouTube. And so now they can do so much other stuff. Jaden Daniels, Drake May and Caleb Williams are joining the national football league. You want to run through some of the quarterbacks we got here. Justin Fields is not a great quarterback, but look at him. Uh, Josh Allen. How about Lamar Jackson? Who, how old is he? 26, 27? Lamar Jackson is going to be around a little while. CJ Stroud. What you have here is a different landscape that you have to overcome

when it comes to opposing quarterbacks. Now, a lot of them went over to the AFC, and I promise you if they were in the NFC, this team would have finished even worse than they did because the NFC has not been good the last couple of years. Here's the other thing that's happened though. Your division is suddenly really dangerous and it hasn't been. Kirk Cousins has had free wins and free quarterback rating from the Detroit Lions forever. That is over with. And the Chicago Bears, this is the guy who broke the curse of Soldier Field. You know why? Because the Bears were freaking horrendous and Tyson Bajan. They're not going to be. They're they're not gonna be anymore even just based on what they were the last seven weeks the roster they have they're not going to be they have a chance to be truly great

and the Green Bay Packers sorry folks they have a really good quarterback and they have the youngest team in the league you got problems and these are not as Quacey once said champagne problems these are very serious, real problems. You have to be better now than you ever were before in order to compete. And I mean, with the whole league at quarterback, are you in a position to do that? And are you in a position to cook better than me where I can't handle cooking meat and rice and potatoes and asparagus at the same time, just like the Vikings can't handle signing free agents, heading every pick in the draft and paying that man is money and paying

Jefferson and paying Derrissaw and everything else. So I'm mixing my comparisons to say that that price better be pretty low that they set it at, or I'm not going to believe there's much chance of it working. Now, this was not the only thing discussed, but it is a thing we're going to discuss for several months. 2022 draft really makes people upset. It's like an emotional reaction. Our buddy Chip Scoggins was like, you answer for that, man. You tell us what's your deal with the 2022 draft.

What is your feeling about how they feel about drafting as a whole? Well, the 2022 draft really did not go well, and that's not good. You don't want to start out your tenure with a draft class that has pretty much totally flopped. And maybe Ty Chandler ends up being the best player out of that draft. Who knows? Ed Ingram was improved from awful to competent this year. But all the defensive guys that you drafted, Seen, Booth, Asamoah, even a Caleb Evans, who was clearly the best and then just totally fell apart

the last few weeks of the season. It's just not good. But I don't think that that should totally be held against Kweisi as some example of oh this guy can't draft like that's that was his first year never done it before I mean he'd been a part of drafts in Cleveland and San Francisco but it was his first draft that was his and I think he probably learned a lot from it and i think he probably regrets um going from 14 back to 32 and even if that by the charts brought them some good value probably probably regrets not taking kyle hamilton or jordan davis or whoever in that range and

that's that's just part of the evaluation that we have. I think you should also look to this year and say that they hit on Jordan Addison. And Makai Blackman was really good at tackling and didn't look like he was in over his head. I mean, physically, I think there's maybe some limitations on him ever becoming like a superstar corner. But he looks like a very competent guy at that position. And then they get Ivan Pace Jr. as an undrafted free agent. And he looks like he's going to be a starting linebacker in the league for a long time. That doesn't count. Remember, it doesn't count. It should sort of count. No, it absolutely counts. Are you serious? Like, I don't, I'll never understand. I see that every

time it comes up, like, well, it doesn't count. That wasn't a draft pick. Like what? No, no, that counts. If you're purely just considering draft picks, then it doesn't. But he's part of that class this year that really it was encouraging rookie season for them. And I think that balances out a lot of 2022. This is going to be a really big draft for them. And they have to take some of the lessons that they've learned, maybe about an injury prone situation with an Andrew Booth and also in free agency with Marcus Davenport. I don't know that you can continue to do that and try to think you're winning on the margins there by, by getting this injury prone guys who, what if he stays healthy, he could be really good.

It just doesn't happen sometimes when you're, and I don't like the injury prone label, but those two guys are examples of if you gotten hurt throughout your entire football career, probably you're probably going to keep getting hurt. It just, it just happens like that sometimes with the Byron Buxtons of the world to change sports. I think this is just going to be a huge draft.

They have this premium pick at 11, even higher than when they were 14 two years ago. And there's this quarterback class sitting there that if you don't do it this year and you bring back her cousins and you say, let me go take this defensive tackle or this edge rusher. And you know what? That would be really helpful because they need a premier player up front on their defensive line, especially if Daniel Hunter isn't back. And they haven't drafted those guys early in a very very very long time uh i don't know i don't know what's coming down the the road in next year's quarterback class or the

year after that like to me it feels like you're in this position where you're at 11 and also if you do that and then you bring kirk cousins back and you get some better injury like you could just end up picking 21st again the year after and then then it's hard to go up and get the quarterback. To me, if you're Kevin O'Connell, Kweisi Delfamensa, you really like one or any of those top three guys, I would say just go get them. Do what you can to go get them. And there's a price in everything too and it's entirely possible that they really liked anthony richardson last year and just weren't willing to give up um the capital it would have taken to go get him at four or wherever he went but or the or indianapolis was picking him no matter what and they weren't trading that which we they could run into again this year and that's tricky as well i mean we've got a bunch of time until the draft but it's like chicago is one who could be drafting. I think, is it Washington to Washington,

New England quarterback, New England three, who needs a quarterback? It's a little not great. I think Arizona is, is, are they four? Yeah.

And then the chargers are five. So those would be the two spots, but that doesn't help you. If the top three quarterbacks go one, two, three, and you don't really like Michael Penix or Bo Nix or which I don't see as really top 10 guys. Penix maybe with the arm talent, but yeah, it is a big, big draft because there's so much to consider. There's the quarterback position, but also there's

just these holes on defense that you'd love to fill too. And so if you have more cap space to do that and address some of those holes in free agency and not feel like you have to fix them via the draft, that becomes easier way. It's just this puzzle where it all, it all works together or it, or it doesn't work together. So one thing I would like to say about the 2022 draft is it's not over yet

that they haven't just finished their careers. No, it's not because we, even when you look at someone like Josh Metellus, Josh Metellus was a sixth round draft pick who never had a chance to play. And then he did. And then all of a sudden it was there. I'll give you another example. Trey Wayans did not play a whole lot through his first couple of years as a first round draft pick. Everyone called them a bust. When I got here in 2016, they're like, this is Trey Wayne's guy. What a huge bust. And then he was a key player on the outside corner on a defense that finished number one

in the NFL. Now, was he a hit as a top draft pick? Probably not what you'd expect. You expect him to be sauce Gardner, but there have been plenty of guys who have advanced. And so is Ed Ingram hit his ceiling now, or can he be better next year? And instead of the 34th best guard, he's the 20th. And all of a sudden that's a really good pick. Or can Andrew Booth Jr.

Who didn't look terribly out of place when he played, he just didn't play much. I think that Brian Flores likes a little more toughness in his corners, which may have made a difference there. I just mean Harrison Smith might retire. It's not completely over for this draft class. So it's not a hundred percent over. It's not. And, and until, and I'm not arguing for it. I'm only saying that as of right now, uh, our opinions have changed in the past i don't expect these players there's a difference between i'm saying it's possible and i don't expect it you're not counting on these guys by any means but the optimistic view would be yeah sometimes and

quacey said this today sometimes it's not all always linear it could be year three year four year five where a guy figures it out they're hoping for some of those guys it might be year three lewis scene is is it isn't strange one because the whole rookie season was ruined with the injury and then this year like we have no idea really who he was um just because the safety room was so stacked a little concerning that he was a healthy scratch behind theo jackson who was a six round pick but but I wouldn't completely write that out. I mean, there was, Quasey mentioned, there's safety. It's a position where there's a lot of nuance and there's things where with Brian Flores' defense, that takes a lot to learn. Andrew Booth Jr., I thought the last game of the season when he actually played against the Lions, he held his own fairly well. So I'm not going to completely

write off him. I'm not going to write off of caleb evans just because he had a few bad games to end the year brian asamoah i don't know he i mean that could be more of a compliment to ivan pace but he never really played this year and we looked at that as this is going to be his year with eric hendricks gone and then we just completely forgot about him because pace was so good but then then they even like played Troy die over him. And then they signed like Anthony bar off the couch to play over him. And Nick vigil, that one might be a little over,

but that's the thing you don't know. It's, it's still possible. They get something out of that class. That would just be kind of a bonus. The encouraging thing is what we can sort of think we can count on from the three guys specifically in this 2023 class. Right. Just to be clear, I'm just saying that his point in the press conference was that it's not over with the draft. And I think that's fair because we have

seen other players develop. And I believe at this point that that draft is an F and nothing higher than an F and we'll see if that changes. I don't think that it will. So I just want to be clear of how I stand on it. I am telling you what he said and, you know, kind of talking about it, but I think that the two drafts are very instructive as is Marcus Davenport, because I saw this from Brad Spielberger of PFF was going to be on the show later this week. He said on Twitter that the only team that got more wins above replacement by PFF metrics from their rookie class this year was the Houston Texans who took C.J. Stroud and next Dell and right next was the Vikings with Addison and he's counting UDF face. So it does count. But was that on like a per snap basis or something?

I don't know. I thought it was total. It might be value. I think, I think it was, but either way, I don't know what it was, but they were second only to the Texans and think about Jordan Addison and what that gives you alone. And then cornerbacks are very valuable. And I think Blackman was probably a little underrated and how much he gave them. He was their highest graded coverage player by PFF. And then of course, a linebacker who gives you 750, 800 snaps as the number one graded rookie linebacker, like this is a really good class. So one is an F and this one is probably closer to an a considering that the second round pick was traded for tj hockinson that's a haul from your draft capital and one year you're terrible and one year you're smart and who can

predict which will be which lewis seen was the defensive player of the game in the national championship and a consensus first ish type of round draft pick who has not worked out who can predict this thing not i not the 49ers when they take trey lance with three firsts and then it turns out their seventh rounder is better so if you extend kirk this is where it all ties back to you have to then hope that you're the drafter you were this year and not the word drafter you were last year and that's pretty risky. And then when it comes to, cause you have to hit on those picks. And when it comes to Marcus Davenport, another great example that if you do not have cap space to make up the difference, when you have a bad draft,

you better hope that those bargain bins hit and with Davenport, it didn't, and it really cost them. And so there's a, there's a lot like to me that is contextualizes the the quarterback decision and should influence the quarterback decision because if you suddenly believe well now we can just draft you know five other stars to put around kirk i don't know that's that it might work out it might not it's such a hard job and a hard like thing to get right and there's a lot of luck that it comes down to in the draft and there's just inherent risk doing both things there's inherent risk to resigning kirk and like you said trying to hit on all your draft picks like like this year and it's still a very incomplete thing with the 2023 draft after one year but trying to pull off that kind of draft versus having a 2022 draft where at the time i was like all right this looks like a bunch of

good players i don't i mean i don't know maybe and it just didn't work out there's also a ton of inherent risk to letting kirk walk and signing some free agents and then trying to get that quarterback decision right in the draft because you what if you trade up and you give up a bunch of future firsts and then the guy stinks like what jayden daniels just doesn't pan out for whatever reason that's super risky too and it's it's living in the world and and quacey talks about this a lot with his trader background and economics and math and like which path is it has a more probabilistic chance to getting to Super Bowl contention, because that's the only thing that matters here, is contending for a championship. And to me, the evidence from the

past suggests that the path with a higher percentage chance of getting you there is not paying the 11th best quarterback in the NFL, 40, 45 million when he's 36 years old. It's taking a shot at that quarterback, the young quarterback, that if you hit on that, he's cross-controlled. All of a sudden, oh, hey, we got money now, Daniel Hunter. Or I guess that decision has to be made before. But, you know what I mean? We got money now to bring in two proven starting cornerbacks to compete with Blackman and Booth. And maybe if Murphy's still here.

We got money now to add this really impactful, even on a level beyond Harrison Phillips, defensive tackle. We got money now to go get an edge rusher because our starting quarterback is on a rookie deal. And so there's a ton of risk to that, of course. If you get it wrong, you're not going to be the guy probably drafting another quarterback. But I think that that kind of swing and just getting out of the place that we've been in for the last five, six years with this franchise and taking a shot at it with this draft pick that you have this year, to me, is more appealing than running it back and convincing yourself that Kevin O'Connell can take Kirk Cousins to the promised land. You're a big hockey fan. Yeah. Yeah. I'm pretty, it's, it's fourth for me among the four sports, but I also love all of them.

So you're from here, you know, hockey. Yes. In hockey, there's a concept. Well, I used to cover hockey early in my career. So I covered prospects like American hockey league is my first reporting gig. And so I would talk to scouts and executives and stuff who would go to these minor league games that they'd just be sort of milling about. And so I got a great chance to learn a lot from them. And one of the things they would talk about

is drivers versus passengers. And this is when we talk about the risk, here's where it ties into the risk. Who are the drivers of the Vikings having a great passing game? Who is the passenger? Now, I'm not saying Kirk is entirely the passenger because that would be unfair to his talent. He is incredibly accurate, super smart. He operates it. He's a good leader of the offense, all that stuff. But is he the driver in the way that Patrick Mahomes or Lamar Jackson is the driver? Or is it Justin Jefferson in the scheme? I think if you were to pick the quarterback is more of a passenger in this system in the similar way that you would say Jared Goff or Jimmy Garoppolo or Derek Carr in the past when they've been well or played well. I think that

what they have is a system that's set up to be a passenger more than a driver. And then if you can be, then you win the Superbowl. If you have Andy Reed and Tyree kill and Patrick Holmes and Kelsey, then you just win, uh, which is what you're really going for. So I think that that has to be considered as well when they factor all of this stuff in, uh, because there's number one centers who do it all. And then wingers who score because of them. And then we look at the winger stats we go man it's unbelievable we could we get we got to sign him we got to pay him but how he was more of a passenger how much of a passenger was he it's all these things have to be weighed and considered and as you said i think quesadilla fomenta has one of the most difficult

jobs in uh the sport and by the way just for the record, and I was going to ask you if you like, what other thing for the press conference that we, cause we've just circled all the way back every time to the quarterback. Totally right. But, um, he was asked specifically about the Wilfs. Like did the Wilfs tell you, you can never tank. And he said, no, that that's not the case that the way it works is he presents ideas to the ownership. He presents paths and plans, and then they decide on together what they want to do. That sounds right to me. I also think that the idea that this team is in a position to tank now is not even worth discussing. Even if you draft a rookie quarterback, and even if you start them, you are not in a tank type position because

of what you have. And you don't have to be because you have the 11th pick and you're in a spot where you could draft a quarterback anyway. So I just wanted to point that out that that comes up a lot. And that was his answer. And again, does it getting completely endorsed by me as a hundred percent truth? I don't know, but I'm just telling you that's the answer. What other thing before we close will uh stuck out to you that was not quarterback related uh that's a great question my mind is just kind of only there's just like a monkey up there banging a symbol saying quarterback quarterback quarterback what'd you think of his running game answer oh yeah okay can i start by can i start by saying

how funny it was he was asked about the running game he's like well so here's the thing with the passing game he literally started the answer by here's the thing with the passing game this man wants to throw the ball and i respect it yeah and i think that that's the way that you should look at it in the modern nfl i think they if they can get just a little bit more efficient with the running game it will help the passing game and help the marriage and and of the run in the past and everything uh i just i don't know how important it really truly is um the alexander madison thing did not work out very well this year um but whether it's ty chandler whether it's somebody else you bring in um like they should be a better running game it doesn't it's it's weird to me because

these guys that they have o'Neill and Darisaw and Bradbury specifically in, in the guards to Josh Oliver, Josh Oliver, like they have a lot of good run blockers. There's just finding these little margins of, of getting the blocks right. That make the difference between,

like he said, it's such a small difference between averaging four yards of carry like they did this year or averaging 4.3 and then suddenly you're like in the top 10 um so they they got to find that and i think find a little bit more balance but also when you have justin jefferson and addison and augustin you can keep throwing the ball 65 of the time i think yeah i think what they need uh regardless is a running game that can give a quarterback a peace of mind. And, and,

and what he's talking about is circumstances that you get from having a good running game, which is second and five and second and five is a really great. And it was, it was the Bengals game where, right. Where Chandler ripped off seven, eight yards on first down a bunch of times.

And then you're like, wow, this offense looks really good when you're facing second and four. But even more than that um i think is a running back who could create explosive plays and they were non-existent with alexander madison and they were there a little bit with ty chandler i like what i see from ty chandler but i remember my friend sage rosenfeld saying to me one time when the vikings had Delvin cook is it's the easiest thing in the world as a quarterback mentally, you take the snap, you hand it off to the guy and you're 15 yards, you know, just like that, that trust you watch my homes and you watch how much he has to

do all the time. And you just go, or even Michael Penix in the national championship game, like mix in a handoff that goes for 15 yards. And we feel probably a lot better about that, but it's every single down, it's all about the quarterback. And what that can't do is even out a game like Carolina or eat out, even out a game like Chicago, where if you could run the ball, then, all right, you're not passing that effectively. But I go back to when they scored a touchdown running 10 straight times with Kevin Stefanski in 2019. Imagine being the quarterback. This is great. They won a game where they passed the ball 10 times with Kirk against Atlanta.

Yeah. First game of the year. Yep. That must be wonderful. First home game. Yeah. Here we go. Let's do your thing.

So Michigan just did it. Speaking of the national championship, J.J. McCarthy completed 10 passes and they ran for 300 yards. That must be great. He gets to raise a championship trophy i did it you're like well you were a bit of a passenger there my friend that was a passion that was not a driver that's exactly right that works in other sports too i was thinking like basketball how many guys has lebron james gotten paid because he made them look really good oh yeah quite a few yes there are that's absolutely and just even the timberwolves what we've've seen was Carl Anthony Towns was probably always a passenger and they wanted him to be a driver.

Yeah. And when you want and look, this has been this team. When you want a passenger to be a driver, you don't often win a whole lot. Yeah. So now they have a driver and his name's Anthony Edwards. It all came back together. I got to go because I got to go cook some food. I think it'll go fine. Thanks everybody. Uh, this was really fun.

Who do you, who do you got winning Superbowl? Oh, uh, I don't know if we're going to talk about this. We might. I say, I mean,

should I just go with the obvious pick the Baltimore Ravens? I mean, they're the best team in the league. They have one of the best drivers in the league at quarterback. Have they won any games? That would be the fascinating, uh, if it's the top seeds, Ravens 49ers. It really is.

Here's Lamar who does everything for us versus here's Brock Purdy who is excelling in this role where everything around him is amazing. And I kind of just think it might be those two teams. And it's not, it's anything can happen in the playoffs, but I think they're just kind of on a level above, especially in the NFC. Like I don't know who gets there over the 49ers. Maybe Dallas. Dallas is the only one.

The Eagles two months ago, but not right now. The AFC is fascinating because I think Josh Allen is the type of guy who can go beat the Baltimore Ravens by himself, even though that's one of the best events in the league and the best team in the AFC. He's that good, I think. And then I'm not going to write off my homes until he's been eliminated. So the AFC playoffs are going to be really fun. Yes, yes, they are.

Yeah, I mean, the I I think Buffalo's become less of a dark horse in recent weeks because they've been so good. But that defense is pretty nasty and that can play well hey it's also going to be like 50 mile an hour wins in buffalo and i was uh very much thinking about my childhood of watching yeah bill's playoff games at uh what used to be rich stadium and 50 degree wins but they've they've got the quarterback who's the driver they've got the defense they could they could potentially do it and my my two obvious upset pick is you might be able to guess it's the rams the rams going into detroit a secondary that it just gave up 190 to jefferson 200 to cd lamb 140 to jefferson the week before that going against puka and cooper cup the stafford angle is just too juicy that he goes in there and, and ends their

best season in 30, 40 years. So that lion's defense has a lot of work to go. So, uh, we'll see, but guess what? We'll keep doing podcasts through the playoffs. So this doesn't have to be the last prediction I make. In fact, you might listen to another episode. I might think somebody else is going to win. So we'll see. Uh, thanks everybody for watching as always. And we'll be, uh, anytime we pod from here on out, because this is our last time here for a while. We'll be zooming it up. So it's been fun being in this room,

doing round tables and everything else. Yeah. Thanks everybody. Appreciate it. Football.