Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Reacting to the National Championship Game: Penix Jr. vs. McCarthy

Episode Date: January 9, 2024

Matthew Coller talks with Vikings fans about the performances of Michael Penix Jr. and JJ McCarthy in the championship game and what it means for the Vikings QB decision Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here with you as always and going live tonight following the NCAA National Championship game and happy to take Vikings fans questions, comments, so forth. Talk a little more about what we heard from Locker Cleanout Day, but a lot of reaction here to start the show on the national championship game, which I'm starting three minutes before the end of. And right now the score is 34 to 13 Michigan ending this game in a blowout that was actually a lot closer throughout the entire game. Then the final score is going to look like as Michael panics on a fourth down throws an interception. Michigan brings it back. They score right away. And from the outset of this game, Michigan very clearly had the more talented football team. They started out

by just handing off a couple of times and getting like 40 yards carry. And Washington, credit to them, came around on the defensive side and slowed down Michigan and we'll get to the quarterbacks in a moment uh but just kind of to take a long overview of the game is uh you know Michigan was slowed down eventually by Washington Washington had a number of opportunities to get back in it and for one reason or another it just didn't happen. At one point, there was a dropped third down that would have been a conversion. There was a pass interference that toward the end before the interception that was negated by a holding call when the offensive line didn't start when they were supposed to, didn't take the snap when they were supposed to. There were a bunch of penalties on the offensive line. It was very clear they were having trouble hearing and maybe did not anticipate how hard it was going to be to hear

because Michigan took over and made that a home game with all of their fans. And the offensive line for Washington had a hellacious night in front of Michael Penix. So it was too much. It was Michigan's talent was too much. Their wide receivers, Washington's were blanketed for the entire game by very, very good play and a little bit on the holding side. I wouldn't say that we had referee controversy, but there was a great

throw by Michael Penix off his back foot that just dropped in the bucket that was a 25 30 yard gain and it was negated by a holding penalty that was a holding but on the very next drive jj mccarthy completes a pass when there was a clear holding they didn't call it and it was uneven refereeing i think on the two sides by the end of the night and a couple of throws maybe they're a little bit different if Michigan's cornerbacks were not all over Washington's wide receivers and I think that's a good place to start is how to interpret this as it pertains to the quarterbacks that's why we're going live talking about it I don't think I've ever done a show directly after a national championship but with the Vikings having a very clear quarterback

decision to be made both of these guys will likely be considered by the Minnesota Vikings if they do not sign Kirk Cousins to an extension and so we got to talk about what we saw from both quarterbacks and we'll start with Michael Penix and your comments, reactions, very much welcome. So keep them coming. And actually, you know, I think starting with, I don't know how to pronounce your name. Sorry. Is it Aga? My opinions didn't change much from this game. Penix and JJ late first or second round quarterbacks think the Vikings have to resign Kirk. Unfortunately, I don't know if these two quarterbacks determine that because they might not be the only ones in the consideration for the Vikings. There's trading up.

There's also Bo Nix, who is going to the senior bowl, who is considered a first round prospect. But I think the first part of your comment was how I feel that the performance by Michael Penix against Texas was so good that he probably set the bar too high. Like this is a flawed quarterback. He is not perfect. He is not like unbelievably athletic. He is a pocket quarterback. And what we saw in this game was Michigan's defensive line and then also very good coverage. That was another part of it too, that, you know, there's one throw that just misses along the sideline. There's another throw that they did throw a flag on that may end up being a dime leading the wide receiver over, but they grabbed the wide receiver. And there were a lot of plays too, where Michigan's corners use their leverage just brilliantly to continue to force

the wide receivers farther toward the sideline. And if the throws weren't perfect, or even if the throws were good enough, they weren't able to make plays. And what you saw from Michael Penix is that there are limitations for sure for his mobility. And he is not a running quarterback. He is not a playmaking quarterback outside of structure. So he's not going to get a little bit of pressure and run all over the place, look downfield and find somebody the way that he deals with pressure though. You actually did see tonight in a lot of ways, which is getting rid of the football and not taking sacks. Penix, one of his sort of counters because he doesn't have that running ability is just finding somebody underneath

finding his check down option the problem is he was getting pressured on almost every single play so they had to completely change what they were doing to throw short over and over again and a lot of screens and a lot of quick stuff and i think that throughout the middle of the game, he was doing quite well at patiently moving the ball down the field. But as the urgency increased and the need to push the ball down the field increased, it got harder because the Michigan defensive line was so dominant. And we have seen this, and this is a great question from Josh. I want to get to this right here from josh who is the comp for pennix sam bradford with the arm talent and injuries yeah maybe the injuries

have to go into it as well uh he is a bit removed from those injuries and has played healthy for the last couple years but uh you can't dismiss that part of it which should be relevant uh in the draft process and i'm sure there's going to be a lot of conversation about that within the teams that are considering him. But as far as your comp for Michael Penix, I think that Sam Bradford is a good one, like post injuries, because Bradford early in his career was an incredible athlete. And then the injuries took away his mobility. I might also say that, you know, someone like Jared Goff would be that kind of quarterback where it's a big guy with a big arm. Who's not always the most precise, but does not take a lot of sacks.

That's a real key skill for Jared Goff can operate. The offense is a real leader of that offense. And I thought that Pennix was not panicking. He wasn't freaking out. He wasn't looking all shook by the pressure. But there were a few times where it clearly got to him. And I think that when you do pressure a quarterback like Sam Bradford, like Jared Goff, they really don't have a counterpunch to that. And this also applies to Kirk Cousins as well, that there has

never really been a counter punch for Kirk Cousins to pressure, which has been costly at times for the Vikings. And if you draft Michael Penix, that has to be a consideration how this looked. Now, this was an absurd amount of pressure. I would guess that as far as dropbacks that were not screen passes, it was probably 80% of the time that he dropped back. And Michigan's defense, look what they did against Alabama for that entire game. They have so much talent. They are very much deserving of a national championship, and it really showed up in this game. It did not change my opinion on Michael Penix. I think it just showed you that there's going to be a weakness in his game, which is that what Josh Allen did the other night against the Miami dolphins, that's not going to happen with

Michael Penix. He's not going to get out in space and run and break some tackles and run for first downs. That's just not something that is going to go along with his game. But I also don't think this was totally representative of who Michael Penix can be as an NFL prospect, because normally and it does happen sometimes in NFL games. But normally that amount of pressure doesn't usually happen. I mean, if it's a high pressure game that the disparity between Michigan and the offensive line from Washington was more than you'll usually see in the NFL because they're all pros. Now, I mean, sometimes we've seen it over the years, Aaron Donald against Tom Compton, for example, but there's, there's going to be an answer for Michael Penix if you're able to pressure

him because he can't run away. At the same time, man, there were a few really good throws that just got ruined where he made a throw that looked like it should have been there and the wide receiver couldn't make the play and it just didn't go right. Or he makes a great pass and there's a holding or whatever it might be. They could not run the football at all. 0% from the start of this game, which also made life a lot easier for Michigan, where they were playing a lot of different stuff that you see from Brian Flores on Sundays where they were playing linebackers up in those a gaps, dropping them out, using a lot of complex coverages.

But the fact that they were able to rush with four really took away a lot of the talent of the wide receivers of Washington. And it was just a case of one team being a lot better than the other. It was not an impressive performance overall from Michael Penix. It was also one that was the hardest opponent that they were ever going to face. And one that was frankly a lot better than that. I mean, just a lot more talent on the Michigan side. And, and, you know, you, you just come away from that game feeling like they were one throw away.

On the first drive of the game, they get an open receiver coming over the middle, and Penix is just a little high. And, you know, that might have been just being a little juiced up or a little uneven because he had been hit so many times or was processing a little bit too fast and a little bit high, a little bit overthrown. You know, that there was just those little misses for Michael Penix, but the accumulation of his performances over the entire season, in my mind, still makes him a first round caliber prospect or somewhere in that ballpark.

I think that people got a little too high on him after the Texas game because it was so good. And then this one was such a tough game for him that the opinions will swing back farther because we just judge everything based on what we saw most recently, and that's it. But the statistics for Michael Penix over his career and over the last two years are nothing short of marvelous. He led the entire

nation in big time throws. He was one of the highest graded quarterbacks in the nation. He was a great leader for that team. And there's a principle in business that suggests that the more you get promoted, eventually you get to a rung where you can't handle it. And that was Washington. Washington was not a national championship team necessarily. I think they had no five-star recruits from top to bottom, but they had really great coaching, really great chemistry, and a great quarterback who put on an unbelievable performance against Texas in a year where Georgia and, you know, Bama obviously played Michigan, but in a year where Georgia lost the game that kept them out of this game. It's funny that with Michael Penix and our last impressions matter so much is if

Michael Penix's team loses on that weird injury thing at the end of the game against Texas. And the last we see him is walking off after this unbelievable performance. Yes, CJ, it's the Peter principle. That's correct. And he walks off against Texas. They lose, but it's totally not his fault. It's just a bizarre thing at the end. We would have all said, this guy's amazing. Look at him. He's just incredible. But when they were way overmatched as a team, he wasn't good enough to beat Michigan. Nobody was, including Alabama and they're 15 and 0 and they win the championship, but it was not a great game for him even when he had opportunities. So I still look at Michael

Penix as a guy that will get consideration from the Vikings. I don't know how Kevin O'Connell is going to analyze them, how he's going to feel. He's going to go to senior bowls and pro days, and he's going to meet with every one of these guys. They're going to fly him to TCO Performance Center. It's a long way to go. But if you look at the way that Penix plays, the maturity he plays with, the toughness that he has, the leadership to get them to this point, I think he's still a very impressive player and someone who should be considered a first-round draft pick. Is it going to be perfect? No. If you pick him, are you going to have to work around the fact that he can't make plays as a playmaker outside of structure? Absolutely, Yes.

You are going to have to work around that. But at the same time, that's what they've been working with. They've had successful offenses with Kevin O'Connell and Pennix. You cannot take away from the arm strength, the velocity he throws the ball with and the leadership. So here's the thing about quarterbacks. I just want to, before we get to JJ McCarthy, I just want to say this about Michael Penix and about quarterbacks in the draft is if I

take you through all the quarterbacks in the playoffs, I can give you every single downside to that successful quarterback coming out in the draft. Josh Allen is a great example. Giant guy, big hands, totally inaccurate, not very good statistics whatsoever in college. A lot of criticism for even drafting him as high as Buffalo did. I personally did not believe that that was a thing that was going to succeed because I thought, no, no, no. Accuracy is number one for quarterbacks, not just big, pure arm strength, but the guy developed his accuracy and became a tremendous quarterback. Patrick Mahomes. It was about the footwork. Joe Burrow. So I see it's being brought up that he's going to be 24. Joe Burrow was 24 and people didn't believe that he had a strong enough arm. You can go check all these things out to a tug of Iowa.

Same problem. Doesn't have a big enough arm. I, and I know he lost the other night. He's on a team that's in the playoffs that has been really successful. Uh, so far this year with him in the last two years with him, every single one of these quarterbacks, there's going to be a reason not to draft them. And that's always going to be the case. So you have to decide because nobody comes out as a perfect prospect. What do you want to work with? What do you believe fits for you? And what can you cover up? And again, this goes for everyone. This even goes

for Patrick Mahomes when he was coming out in the draft. If anybody had any idea how good Mahomes was going to be, he would have been number one. He would have been, if they knew he was going to be what he is, he would have easily been number one. Jordan Love is another example of a guy who has came out of college, had some weaknesses to his game. He developed and he ends up, you know, becoming a good quarterback already in his first year as a starter for Green Bay. Again, I could tell you every single weakness of every quarterback who has ever come out and some of them work and some of them don't.

Sometimes the weaknesses of a Sam Darnold throwing too many interceptions can be a problem. I would say this. There's a number of pocket passers who've had a lot of success in the NFL this year. You don't necessarily have to be a big time scrambler and playmaker. And Jared Goff is an example. I've brought this up, but four times he's led top five offenses, including one that went to the Superbowl. So it can be done. It, the guy who won the Superbowl with Kevin O'Connell, Matthew Stafford used to be more mobile earlier in his career,

but really is a pocket quarterback now stands and delivers. So, and I, I totally disagree with this, that Michael Pennix tanked his draft value. I don't, I don't think that that is the case really at all. I think that that is the case really at all. I think that that evaluators will watch all of Michael Pennix and try to

understand the strengths and weaknesses. And can you build your offense around his arm strength and his accuracy down the field, which was less on display with the pressure that Michigan had. But I think if you think that you're not giving anywhere near enough of a value to how good Michigan was, I mean, I think that that would be the biggest shortcoming is under pressure. He did fail, which is 95 to a hundred percent of quarterbacks under that type of pressure that don't succeed. So that's where it's funny. If you go back and they lose to Texas, but he plays like that,

we're not talking about this because they protected well against Texas and Michigan was too strong. Their guy, 55, Graham, took over this game, steamrolled their offensive line, and just made it a lot harder for Penix to have his clean pockets. So if the Vikings were to decide to draft Michael Penix, they have to understand that similar to Kirk Cousins, he's going to have to have answers in the pocket. And why I still like the idea is because one of his

answers is getting rid of the ball and not taking sacks, which you did see tonight. So I think you have to look at everything that he did. And again, number one in the whole nation at big time throws and toward the top, the best in the draft class at not taking sacks when he got pressured. So there's going to be good. And there's going to be a guy, you know, concerns about every, you know, quarterback that they have in this potential draft. The only guy that, I mean, there's no guy who's not getting criticized in some way. Caleb Williams, people are going to worry about how up and down he was. Is he a diva? He says he wants to own part of the Bears, or somebody put that out there. I mean, Caleb Williams ran all over the place this year,

and then they played somebody else who threw six touchdowns, so there's concern there. Drake May played for North Carolina. At times, was a little more up and down than you'd want from playing lesser competition. And Daniels, Heisman winner had an amazing year, did take a number of sacks and is not considered a perfect passer as far as dropping straight back and making accurate throws. So there's, there's going to be lots of criticism

for every one of these quarterbacks, but I did think tonight certainly left you understanding that he's not going to have a natural counter when the other team dominates his offensive line, which I would say is true for a lot of quarterbacks. It's not true for Lamar. It's not true for Josh Allen, but probably is for a lot of quarterbacks. I still think you saw a lot of the arm talent. I still think you saw a lot of the poise, despite a lot of things going wrong. It was still next play, next play, next play. So in my mind, it didn't change my opinion wildly because I've watched probably eight games of Michael Penix and I saw him against Oregon State where there were problems.

And I've seen him against Texas that where he was fantastic. And I think you get a pretty good picture for somebody who's played as much as he has. And as far as age and injuries, the age thing I care about less. But the injuries, that's for the doctors to decide if they think that's a concern. Very hard for me to say. Folks, if you've been listening to the show, then you know how much fun we have been having with prize picks this year. Just go to prizepicks.com slash purple. Use the code purple for a first deposit match up to $100. And let me tell you how it works. If you haven't heard us talk about it enough yet, or you haven't

tried it yet, very simple. There are yardage totals on prize picks. You either pick more or less, and boom, you are playing. So last week, I'm going to be honest with you. I had a very tough week. I went Kirk Cousins more than 250 yards, Justin Fields more than 196, and Jordan Addison more than 54. And I went 0 for 3. This is by far my worst week. So this week, I have to bounce back. Each week has been a roller coaster ride of fun. And the best part is that when I have a bad week, I didn't lose

much. It doesn't cost much to play. You can turn $10 into $250 very easily. And if things go sideways for you, you're not out a whole heck of a lot of money. But normally I do much better than this. So that is prizepix.com slash purple, just more or less on yardage totals. And you are in prizepix.com slash purple, the code purple for a first deposit match up to $100. Now, as far as JJ McCarthy goes, that it was not a mind changer if you were a skeptic for JJ McCarthy, because they start off this game and absolutely maul Washington right off the bat, handoff, handoff, bang. Now in the first quarter, McCarthy made a very good throw. It was a crossing route into a bit of a tight window,

and he let it rip, and it was a really nice throw. And that was probably the last good play that J.J. McCarthy had for the whole night. I mean, it was very little on display from McCarthy. And again, what we've seen from Michigan is very little trust in JJ McCarthy, that it was third down after third down that he would get a chance to throw the ball, but first and second down. And, and maybe it was because they trusted their defense. Maybe it was because they were ahead, but Washington was bringing everybody to the line of scrimmage and saying, we dare you to throw a football, J.J. McCarthy.

And they made some good plays. Washington has good secondary. But there was not, there weren't like highlights to rest on. There weren't great throws to go back to. There weren't really moments for McCarthy. And there were long stretches where he didn't do anything in this game, even when they needed it, even when they could have used a big third down conversion and there were

inaccurate passes. And there were times where he didn't find anyone. He did have a big run for 22 yards where you saw his speed and his scrambling ability. And I think that he is a good athlete. Uh, that's, you know, the JJ McCarthy people will tell you, you know, he's a better athlete than you think, which, you know, is kind of a trope. Uh, I think I've got it. I think I've got exactly how good of an athlete he is. He's, he's not going to be a game changing athlete. I think they've got exactly how good of an athlete he is. He's not going to be a game-changing athlete. I think they said the 20-yard run was like 22 yards was the longest of the year for him.

He's got some wheels. He's willing to run. But that is not a guy who is an impact runner from what you can see in a game like this or any game that you've seen from McCarthy. He's not impact runner in the NFL. That you need to be way up here. That's Daniels. That's Anthony Richardson. That's Lamar Jackson. That's Josh Allen. There's just not, you know, that sort of, uh, uh, that sort of ability. Uh, he's fast, but I don't see this like freakish impact runner. He would have run more. I think if he was,

and the, the accuracy is a little spotty. I mean, at times, I think, if he was. And the accuracy is a little spotty. I mean, the first drive is a good example where he nails that throw over the middle. And there were a couple of plays like this with Bama. When he's on a rollout, he can find guys and he can deliver. I mean, Nathan says Zimmer would have liked him. And well, one thing Zimmer loved is the play actions, the bootlegs. We joke about them all the time with Gary Kubiak and Kevin Stefanski. And if you're running bootlegs and play actions, J.J. McCarthy might be your guy because he has kind of that get out in space, on the move, can flip the ball, can see those open receivers when he

gets out but how many times have we seen just like a straight drop back drop back set multiple routes going out fire a ball into a tight window for a big first down just not many from JJ McCarthy. And those are plays that in the NFL, you're going to need over and over again. And that's why I say that if you are a big JJ McCarthy guy, you're going to point at the final score and say, I don't care. I don't care what his stat line is. I'll look up what his stat line was. You're going to say, I don't care what his stat line was. I only care about the W's. He went 10 for 18 with 140 yards and ran for 31. I mean, you know, they were ahead and they should be running the football and that's been their story for most of the year. But in a stat line like that, in a performance like that, where they didn't convert on third downs when they had them

and there weren't a whole lot of accurate throws, There isn't a whole lot of playmaking out of structure either. So you don't see pressure coming at JJ McCarthy and him dodging tacklers and running around and throwing the ball and stuff. I mean, it just looks to me still like kind of a second round type of quarterback. And you may have walked away from tonight saying both guys looked like second round quarterbacks. And that's probably right. JJ Pickett might be right. You know, he's got, I think he's got a better arm than Kenny Pickett, but the accuracy sort of being there and then not being there and being there and not being there is a little Kenny Pickett. Like I saw somebody else compare him to Daniel Jones. It was a little

bit ruthless toward the quarterbacks tonight, but I definitely was not blown away by anybody in this game. But as far as McCarthy goes, 18 passes, a lot of failures on third downs, no pushing the ball down the field whatsoever, sort of typical stuff from what you've seen from Michigan. So if you're drafting JJ McCarthy, it's got to be a big projection and he is younger than the other quarterbacks, but it really has to be a big projection because you have to think, what is it going to be like? And keep in mind, Kevin O'Connell's offense is all around the quarterback. Even if the quarterback is Nick Mullins, that the offense is entirely centered around the quarterback position.

And this is a guy whose entire offense was centered around running the football and then running bootlegs off it because Jim Harbaugh is out there running NFL stuff, and it's working because he's got great players and an incredible run game and just a great team. I mean, credit to Jim Harbaugh and that entire organization or whatever they call them in college. That program, they got a lot of players. I mean, there's a bunch of dudes who are getting drafted from that team. It is the most top to bottom complete team in college football and McCarthy operated it well. Now,

I don't want to, I don't want to like offend anybody by calling him Stetson Bennett, but I do remember last year there was, and he's better, more talented physically than Stetson Bennett. So I, I I'm only making the comparison to say that it in my mind is harder when you have this freakish, amazing team that is clearly better than the other team and they win and they win by not necessarily leaning on their quarterback. Like how do I evaluate the quarterback when that's the case it has to be a big projection for JJ McCarthy there will be some people I saw a former NFL GM say he thinks he's like Jim Kelly which I don't know like what was Jim Kelly like as a prospect that was I watched Jim Kelly's career

as a kid in Buffalo but I I don't know what he was like in 84 or whatever but uh I don't I don't know what he was like in 84 or whatever. But I don't see Jim. Jim Kelly's huge and had a monster arm and was one of the greatest throwers of the football ever. I don't see that. I saw a comparison to C.J. Stroud. I don't see that because the pristine nature of throwing the football, there's more Drake May in C.J. Stroud than there is in McCarthy. So you're going to have to believe that he can improve the accuracy, that he doesn't just need to be a bootleg quarterback, and that he can have it all on him and not just rely on a run game. A very interesting night, I thought, in a much, much better game than the final score.

I mean, it was tense all the way till late in the fourth quarter. And just for enjoyment's sake, really wanted that last drive to work out. But a holding penalty, an offside or delay a game or whatever was an offside penalty, the offensive line for Washington that was so good all year was a problem. And the running backs were so good for Michigan that we didn't get to watch a whole lot of JJ McCarthy. But I think maybe if minds were changed, they were probably changed more on Pennix because of the hype leading up to the game than they were on McCarthy. Justin says, what's the draft grade on a dunes? Today wasn't his best game, but the kid has size and skill.

So we're a little early in the process. Remember Sunday was week 18 for the team I cover. So I have not, I've watched college football cause it's football and it's on my TV, but I don't like have draft grades for people. I I've seen a dunes a be projected to be very high. I've been really impressed with him. That's all I can really tell you though. I don't have like scouting reports. I've been covering the Vikings. Um, I just, I, this, this college football playoff and the lead up for some of these games. And we have to also consider with Pennix, the, uh, PAC 12 championship as well. The acute acute that's what i mean the accumulation great in the pac-12 championship great in the in the final four game certainly not great uh here tonight but also not uh not a board mover i don't think because you know david says i think bo nix

just moved up the board tonight by doing nothing and and that's what I mean, right? Like the recency bias of this game is maybe going to shape the outside world opinion, but I promise you that the NFL is going to evaluate these quarterbacks on a bunch of different levels. They will watch because this is their full-time job. They will watch every throw for, they will take days to do this, to watch every throw of Michael Penix. They will chart it. They will evaluate it.

I mean, Kevin O'Connell is going to go watch him throw it as pro day or the senior, but like, there's so much work to be done to decide whether he could be the guy that they're not like you watching tonight for the first time being like, I don't see what the hype's all about. Uh, it's a little bit more complicated than that. Um, so James says it looks like Pennix, JJ McCarthy, Bo Nix are second rounders trade up for one of the top three guys. It looks like about the only option for starter this year.

And that's, that's what I don't know, because I can't tell you that you're right or wrong about that last year everybody thought that Will Levis was going to be the fourth overall pick and two years ago everybody thought that Malik Willis was going to be a top three pick I am curious though maybe I can look this up uh sorry my computer's far away from my body so I have to reach a draft consensus. I wonder what, what it is right now. If there is one about, uh, mocks, anybody have that? Uh, hold on. I'm looking it up. I'm going to try to find it. See, uh, let's see the mock draft consent. Now that's from last year. All right. Mock draft database, 2023 to we got 2024. All right. We've got got it we've got it here at the quarterback position

right now the mock draft database is showing maybe i can show you guys this on the share screen if you just give me a moment i can share the screen here and show you where the mock draft database is showing everybody all right let's see how's. How's that look? We good there? Okay. There we go. So this is what the mock draft database says right now, amidst a million ads that are on my computer. But Caleb Williams, number one, Drake May three, Jaden Daniels, six, Michael Penix, 20, Bo Nix, 28, JJ McCarthy, 35. So this is based on a bunch of different mock drafts and what they think for these guys and where they're going to go. And you can see the projection says Vikings at number 42 is apparently a common projection for JJ McCarthy.

But I think that that's fair. That sounds about right. That, you know, Michael Penix is a mid first round pick Bo Nix, maybe farther toward the back. That's kind of where that's kind of where we stand. So to your point, is it reasonable to think that maybe you could be right that these guys won't be seen as first round franchise quarterbacks and the Vikings do have to trade up to get Jaden Daniels if they want to get a quarterback, absolutely you could be right, 100%. I don't know because I don't know what they're thinking, and we're going to get a lot more information as we go. But even when we get to draft night,

a lot of times we're not really sure. So I would not be surprised if they do not sign Cousins, that that's what we're talking about. We'll have to know a little bit more or you know someone like Bo Nix I could see having a great combine having a great senior bowl and improving his stock and maybe Penix wants to go to the senior bowl to try to improve his stock uh CJ says draft sim time oh we're getting We will. We will. Could the Vikings trade down, get Pennix and a decent pick or two? So if they're without Kirk, if they don't extend Kirk,

and you go into the draft needing – that's funny. I could have been covering Harbaugh every week. Yeah, that would have been a trip. That would have been a trip. That is true. I still think that the Vikings made the right decision, but congratulations to Jim Harbaugh for winning the championship. I'd still prefer where they're at right now, but I guess if Harbaugh comes back into the NFL and wins a Super Bowl, then everyone can say I was wrong about that, but I still think the Vikings made the right call. So back to the question. I think that if the Vikings are without Kirk Cousins and it's over, he's gone, he's signed with Atlanta, whatever,

then trading down is a little risky because you have to come away with a quarterback. And if you have the sense at all that somebody else might take him in front of you, then you really need to make sure that you get them, even if it costs you a little bit of draft capital. Nathan says, I'm all in on Jaden Daniels at this point. I don't disagree with you. When you look at the Jaden Daniels resume, now that's a wild one, by the way, talking about mock drafts going into this year. The only person I know who was really high on Jaden Daniels being a potential high draft pick was actually our

buddy Chris Trapasso, who for draft season will absolutely be back. Weekly appearances from Chris Trapasso. I'm going to try to convince him to come to the Combine again. That was awesome last year. If you guys missed it, Chris Trapasso from CBS Sports, their draft analyst, came to the combine with Purple Insider. We did a bunch of shows together. It was awesome. He has been high on Jaden Daniels this whole time. And I think that his stock just rose and rose because he is a top-notch athlete. You could see him developing with that athleticism, but already a really good passer with huge, huge, absurd, preposterous numbers.

And that sounds like a good idea to me to tell you the truth. And look, this is the situation. If the Vikings have to trade up, and I know we talk about the other weaknesses on the roster, but that's where you make up the difference with the, with the rookie quarterback contract. I mean, it's one of the reasons why San Francisco wasn't hurt so much by missing on Trey Lance is that they just went out and spent on the other positions because they're not paying anything for their quarterback. Uh, they're paying more for their backup than their starter, which is crazy. So you try to do the same thing if you're the Vikings, which is, all right, we know we've got weaknesses, but can you trade for a pass rusher? Someone else doesn't want to pay. Can you sign a pass rusher in free agency? Can you add a corner? Can you add? And the answer usually ends up being yes. I mean, the Chicago bears are a good example so are the miami dolphins they traded for bradley chubb uh chicago traded for montez sweat like this can be done but it can only be done if you're working with that rookie quarterback contract that's why i would be in favor of trading draft

capital to move up the issue is that there's a lot of teams that are going to be interested in quarterbacks and how much is it going to cost to actually trade up? Very, very interesting stuff. Richard said, I know you always say they're older and they are, but as far as getting someone like Bo Nix and Pennix, even if you really only get five years out of them and not eight to 10, are you good with that? Oh yeah. I mean, and look older, it's not Hendon Hooker older. Hendon Hooker older was a legitimate problem. That means by the end of the guy's rookie contract, he's in his 30s. It also means that there isn't really any room at that point to improve.

And if you're thinking of Hendon Hooker as a little bit more of a raw guy who hasn't played in anything like an NFL offense, then you're asking him to improve at age 26. That's very hard to do. Michael Penix, as we speak, is still 23 and it will be five months until he turns 24. He'll start his first NFL season at 24. That to me is quite a bit different from a guy who's starting at 26. And also with Pennix, he already has the arm talent. And I wouldn't say it's an NFL offense because there's no such thing as an NFL offense, but the leadership capabilities, the types of throws that he's asked to make into tight windows, pushing the ball downfield, like these are all things that the Vikings do, but it's so hard to say because every single one of these quarterbacks is always going to have that. Hey, what about this to them?

And with Pennix, it's going to be the age. It's going to be the injury history and so forth. But CJ says would take Pennix at 20 with a trade down and follows up with, would rather have Daniels at five and six. I think you're right, but this is just how much one game can change us because there were a lot of people thinking, as you saw from the mock draft consensus, that there's going to be five in the first round. And then as far as Penix goes, maybe even as high as toward the top, I saw some mock drafts today saying that the Michael Penix could be right up there drafted right with the Vikings at 12th at 13th. And yet at the same time,

then we have a game that's not as good against a great Michigan team. And now it's, well, maybe we should trade down for him. That that's the roller coaster. We all ride with all football opinions. Totally. But I mean, I think we already understood going into this game that there were going to be three quarterbacks in the draft that are considered quite a bit higher than everybody else. And then it's going to be, we'll see what happens with the other quarterbacks.

If somebody falls in love with a guy, then maybe they end up with him. I like things about all of them, all of the quarterbacks in this draft. I still like a lot about Michael Penix. That was an incredibly difficult situation. He took a ton of hits tonight.

Did he take one sack? He got rid of the ball all night long and just missed by this much difficult situation. He took a ton of hits tonight. He took, did he take one sack? I mean, he got rid of the ball all night long and just missed by this much on a couple of throws that if he makes them, we're going, wow, man, what a throw. And it's just a little bit off to throws. He usually makes when he's not under that much pressure. So my opinion is still on Michael Penix that if they like him, he's a guy that fits with how they want to play, which is pocket quarterback, push the ball down the field. They will create open wide receivers. We know this. They created open wide receivers for Nick Mullins. They'll create them for Michael Penix and that he can make every throw you're asking him to make. James says, Collar, I'm not rooting

for this, but how Vikings would it be if they really did get Russell Wilson? If it's the Vikings MO of picking up a formerly great quarterback and losing in the NFC championship game. So there is a thing that I'm trying to better understand about the Russell Wilson situation, which is the offsetting for his contract. Which means this is just my vague understanding. I have not gone deep into this and I'm going to have Brad Spielberger on the show later this week. Maybe we'll end up getting to it. But the offsetting I think means that he could take a small contract from a team this year, a very small contract, but Denver still pays him the cash. And again, I want to fully understand

this before I say it for sure, but this from listening to other people talk about Wilson situation, it sounds like he might end up taking a smaller deal from somebody. And if, if I'm going to say over and over again, that the issue is the price tag, then, you know, maybe that makes some sense. And you're right that it's very, very Vikings. I still have a tough time getting sold on an older quarterback to go win now because Russell Wilson in Denver got one coach fired and the other one's already on the hot seat, in my opinion, he should be with Sean Payton with that organization. And he played well this year, but I don't know that he played stupendously well. And if you want your quarterback to be in the pocket

and step back and deliver on time, it's really never been who Russell Wilson is. So I'm not sure that it's the right fit exactly. Enigma11 says, I'll still take Pennix, not going to evaluate his entire body work off of one. Not so great night.

And it didn't help that those refs gift wrap the title for Michigan. I, man, I have become more and more frustrated with reffing than ever. And I've usually been the person that says hey guys come on there's calls on both sides and what about this one or that one but the the dagger play for michigan there's a dude just grabbing the pass rusher across the middle of his body and there was just a previous call on holding and there are at least two or three throws that Penix makes. And that's what I'm talking about. If he hits a couple of them where the timing of the throw is thrown off. So his big thing is throwing with anticipation. So there's several throws where he

winds up and he throws to a spot and his receiver is supposed to be there, but his receiver gets grabbed. Roma Dunzay got straight up grabbed on one of those plays down the sideline where he probably catches it and instead ends up just a little late on the timing. You know, it was very frustrating that things were on the holding side were called on Washington, not called very often on Michigan. And I thought it did throw off a lot of the game, but also their offensive line was overmatched by a lot. I agree with your premise though, that judging it on one game is not really the best way to do it. And if you want to watch some more Michael Penix, you can, I mean, I'm sure the games are on YouTube and so forth, but there's a handful of, of very good, very good games by Penix to watch, including against Texas. Texas was just the best, best, best version. And we've always said, the funny thing about it is we've always said that

if Kirk was making rookie quarterback contract money, they would be great. And it's like, well, you know, Pennix throws the ball harder, but has the same sort of pocket quarterback mentality. And if he gives you something similar on a rookie quarterback contract, that'd be, you know, that'd be pretty good. I still think you can build around that, but this is what made me laugh.

Benjamin said, is it true? Hendon hooker Hendon hooker's son is draft eligible this year. That's good. Yes, that is true. Yes. His,

his son is 22. I miss those jokes i don't think pennix is old enough for the for the uh hendon hooker his old jokes so anyway well you know uh it was uh i thought it was an enjoyable game for the most part it was a little bit frustrating with some of the drops and so forth. But overall, we learned a little bit about both of these quarterbacks. And also at the same time, we walk away maybe not learning as much as we wanted or getting exactly what we wanted out of the game, which was a shootout where Penix throws for 380 yards

and just ends up being a monster. And we can all talk about that., maybe it cools off the interest just enough for the Vikings to draft him. I don't know. We are in draft mode. This is a skull searching for quarterbacks. Now we'll follow this closely as the senior bowl is going to happen. And I'm already working to get a senior bowl correspondence. I don't know with the, uh, with the budget, if it's going to make sense to go to the senior bowl, but we're going to have a purple insider senior bowl, uh, correspondence. So that that's how big we are. Uh, so we'll do that. That'll be big for the process. We'll look at that. We'll watch the playoffs. We'll talk about what the playoff teams did, how it pertains to the Vikings. On Wednesday, we're going to have an immediate reaction podcast out at TCO Performance Center because Kweisi Adafo-Mensa and Kevin O'Connell are talking on Wednesday. So lots and lots to come.

Didn't do the show with Manny tonight because we needed to do it later so Manny could watch the national championship. He also has a real job. So I was the only one that could go late. But Manny will be on tomorrow. So we'll have Searles. We'll have Manny. We're going to have the whole crew all breaking it all down.

So thanks, everybody, for tuning in. Big crowd here tonight. What time is the press conference? I think it's like 1 is the press conference for Kweisi and Kevin O'Connell. And right after that uh will raggetts and i are gonna do a podcast and break it all down so we'll have something up for you very shortly after that to you know get a sense of what those guys said so again thanks everybody so much for tuning in this was a lot of fun and we will see you around thanks so much