Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Revisiting the Vikings decision to move on from Kirk Cousins

Episode Date: December 3, 2024

Matthew Coller talks about the Vikings facing Kirk Cousins this week and the decisions the Vikings made last offseason. Plus, Manny Hill picks the schedule. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Inside. Matthew Collar here and we're back here for another live show on a Monday, which means that in about a half an hour, Manny Hill will join to come and pick the rest of the Viking schedule, as we have done throughout the entire season. And I am very interested to see how many wins Manny Hill thinks this team is going to come up with now this year he has ranged anywhere from nine early on in the season to up to 13 then back down to 10 or 11 and I think he recently has settled on 12 so after a win against Arizona where is he going to land and I would love to hear that from you guys as well,

where you think this Vikings team ends up. Now, we've been doing this exercise week in and week out, and we've kept waiting for the loss, the loss that we don't expect or the disappointment, and the Vikings have pulled out these games for their second straight five-game win streak, and now they get to face off with the Atlanta Falcons and presumably Kirk Cousins. It would be truly shocking if they benched him this week.

I don't see that happening. But the Atlanta Falcons and Kirk Cousins, which offers a good opportunity to go back and reevaluate and look back at the offseason that shaped the 2024 Minnesota Vikings and beyond. Because it was one of the most interesting offseasons that the Vikings have ever had this last offseason. When you think about how much overhaul there was starting at the quarterback position,

the Vikings entered the off season with the huge question of would they bring back her cousins? And every time Kevin O'Connell or Kweisi Adafo-Menta talked, we would try to parse through does KOC want him, but Kweisi Adafo-Menta doesn't want him. And what are they going to offer him some sort of smaller short-term contract? Will there be any other team that comes in? Will they end up with a two-year deal for Kirk and still draft a quarterback?

It seemed like everything was on the table. And just today, I was thinking a lot about the day that Kirk Cousins held his press conference in the locker room following last season where he said that it wasn't about the dollars but what the dollars represented and he said things like the Achilles will heal I'm a pocket quarterback and made it more or less his appeal to teams to sign him in the offseason. And one team bit, the Atlanta Falcons. The Vikings reportedly had an offer for Cousins that was not close to what the Atlanta Falcons put down, $100 million guaranteed,

somewhere in the ballpark of $45 million per year. And he ends up going and signing with the falcons which i think in the days after that as they signed sam darnold as they drafted jj mccarthy it became more and more clear that that was the vikings plan really from day one which when quesida flamencamensa and Kevin O'Connell took over and the competitive rebuild was hatched, part of the competitive rebuild was to get the roster to a point where they could move on from Cousins, get the salary cap to a point where they would be able to spend the money that was there with him leaving the team,

and draft a quarterback. And Kweisi D'Affafomensa several times made reference to, and so did Kevin O'Connell, made reference to, well, this draft class was one that we knew for a couple years was going to be pretty strong. And, of course, it was sort of hint, hint, wink, wink. This was the draft class that they were aiming for. Because remember, when the Vikings brass came in,

that was the Kenny Pickett, Desmond Ritter, Malik Willis, do not hitch your wagon to these guys draft that nobody really believed in those quarterbacks. And then the following season, the Vikings did reportedly look into potentially trading up, but they would have had to have gone way up to try to get C.J. Stroud, Anthony Richardson, or Bryce Young. Richardson and Young playing a lot better these days, by the way.

And there was a report about how much they were willing to give up to go get Anthony Richardson, which would have been a really fascinating shift in terms of mobility at the quarterback position. But that didn't happen. The Colts tanked for Richardson by having Jeff Saturday be their coach, and there was no way any of those teams were giving up the top quarterbacks. So that pushed the Vikings into this draft. And I think that they did have some different paths.

And one of the paths would have been if Cousins would have taken essentially a one-year deal or a two-year deal that was really a one-year deal to be the bridge quarterback to the next guy, which he may ultimately end up doing here in Atlanta, or at least the way that it looks now. And the Vikings chose instead to not match that offer by the Falcons, allow Kirk Cousins to move on, and buy into the idea that they would be able to draft their franchise quarterback. And as Kevin O'Connell went on his journey to find the next Vikings quarterback, it seemed that he landed on multiple guys that he would have been happy with this team and then made one of the best decisions maybe in franchise history,

which was to bring in Sam Darnold as the bridge quarterback which matters so much to this equation that he was the guy that they picked if they had picked Gardner Minshew if they had picked Jacoby Brissett other guys that were doing the bridge thing around the league although Russell Wilson has played pretty well but I don't know how good he would have been in Kevin O'Connell's system that does ask for a lot of downfield passing and passing from the pocket which Russell Wilson is more of a rollout or scramble quarterback still he moves around quite a bit back there instead he picked a Matthew Stafford clone in Sam Darnold

who just had not been refined and had not had good coaching and had not had good weapons. And now Sam Darnold is playing like Matthew Stafford from 2021 where there are mistakes and there are sacks and there have been interceptions and turnover-worthy plays. But the high end, how about this for a stat about Sam Darnold there are only two quarterbacks in the NFL who have more big time throws which is a PFF stat than Sam Darnold and they are Josh Allen and Joe Burrow that's it so as we look at the off season

and going back in that decision I don't think anybody had Sam Darnold in mind at all as somebody who could bring the Vikings to 10-2. When they moved on from Cousins, his name came up as a potential bridge quarterback, and it made complete sense. Like, this is a talented player, and this is someone that has been in a good system in San Francisco, and so he would make for a really

good backup as he did for Brock Purdy. Or if he asked to start, if the Vikings feel that's best, which it's also funny too, if the Vikings had drafted Michael Penix instead, and there was a different draft order and the Giants had picked JJ McCarthy and the Vikings went with Penix, then Penix would have been starting this whole year and Sam Darnold may not have ever gotten this opportunity to show what he could be. Small world. The Atlanta Falcons take Pennix.

We'll never know if the Vikings would have taken Pennix instead of McCarthy. I don't know on that. On draft night, it was reported that they were interested in both of them. So hard to say which one of them they would have picked. But instead, the Atlanta Falcons end up taking Michael Penix, which gives the Vikings J.J. McCarthy. And when they draft McCarthy, they know that they're going to need a bridge quarterback with experience.

And they end up with Sam Darnold. And here we are many months later with the Minnesota Vikings sitting at 10 and two and the Atlanta Falcons at six and six. And I think that if you had said to me, one of these teams would be 10 and two and the other six and six, by the time we got here, I would have said, wow, the NFC South must be really bad and Kirk's Achilles must be really good because that was a team that was supposed to have one of the easiest schedules in the NFL. If you look at the South, it's still in pretty rough shape

and they were in a position to add a quarterback with all these different weapons and be in a great spot. And I was just looking at the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, the newspaper down there, and their headline from yesterday, which was talking about how Kirk Cousins was shackling the offense that he was supposed to enhance was the headline. It was Cousins shackling the offense that he was supposed to enhance was the headline. It was Cousins shackling the offense. And I think that when we had that conversation, the one big unknown,

because we knew everything about Kirk Cousins. We knew what his ceiling was. We knew what he could do. We knew what he couldn't do, which was make some of the throws we've seen from Sam Darnold or some of the scrambles from Sam Darnold. We knew the strengths that he was a really good leader of an offense, that he was extremely accurate. His relationship with Kevin O'Connell is good.

He was very experienced and in control out there and that he had come out of his shell and he had become a better leader under Kevin O'Connell. We knew all that. But the one thing that we had no idea about was how Kirk Cousins was going to look coming off the Achilles. And I thought that that was the real linchpin to all of the arguments. So even if you had made the case, like, Hey, who's going to play quarterback outside of Kirk, which I think when we saw Nick Mullins through for 400 yards, that that kind of eliminated most of that argument, because if Nick Mullins didn't throw all those crazy interceptions,

they just win those games with Nick Mullins. And he was able to put up a ton of yards in this system as well. But even if you were still making that case, well, how are they going to get to the playoffs? How are they going to stay competitive? What we never had any idea was how does a guy in his mid thirties come back from an Achilles injury and play the same kind of football. And what Kirk cousins was arguing to the world in that press conference with us, uh,

the final day that he was in Minnesota, uh, he was saying, well, I'm a pocket quarterback. It'll be fine. And what we've seen from him in Atlanta is that it's not fine. The juice on the football has really struggled. The play action, the bootleg, the amount that he can move in the pocket. If he wasn't a great athlete before, he was a pocket quarterback before, but now he is completely immobilized. And what I kept wondering about through that time was how is he going to dig into the ground and throw the football? And what we've seen is that he just isn't putting a lot of juice on it. He's relying on his smarts, his anticipation. He still throws the ball accurately, but if he cannot push the ball into tight windows, it's really, really hard to win.

And then you add the price tag, the risk, the fact that Atlanta went with four years, there was no way the Minnesota Vikings could do that. And what we ended up with was a decision to move on from Cousins that has put the Vikings in position, not only this year to compete for a Superbowl. They're not a favorite. I understand that. I hear that from people every single week. Well, that win wasn't impressive enough. It's a one score win and so forth, but they are 10 and two. And if you're at this point in the season and you're 10 and two

going down the stretch and you could 10 and two going down the stretch and you could get to 13 wins going into the playoffs, then you belong in the conversation. You're not the favorite, but you belong in the conversation as a legitimate Superbowl contender. I don't think any of us would have thought, and I had them as a playoff team, but I don't think any of us would have thought that they would have been a 12 or 13 win team because I never would have projected that Sam Darnold would be a top 10 quarterback. There were a couple of people in the comments who, uh, who wanted to bet on it and said, Hey, you know, I think he's going to be a top 10 quarterback. And those people are,

are flying high right now because that's what he's been. That was something that I wouldn't have been able to project. I think that the most logical outcome for the season moving on from cousins was that they played Darnold until the wheels came off. And then JJ McCarthy came in once McCarthy went out. A lot of folks were like, the season's over. There's no reason to watch. I'll check in with me in 2025 when he's ready to play. And that just shows you that with the Minnesota Vikings, you should never assume that any season is going to be what you think it's going to be because throughout the history of this team, this type of season has popped up almost every single decade when we don't expect it. But I think the important takeaway is not really, and I, you know, some of you, of course,

you know, where I stood on that decision. I was very strongly in the camp of moving on from cousins multiple times throughout the years, multiple contract extensions I argued against through the years because the upside just wasn't high enough to justify the price, right? And that was always the discussion we went back to is if you're going to pay this much, you got to get that much. And there was a lot of losing around the margins, which was not being able to sign a corner or an extra pass rusher, or not being able to scramble for a first down or fit a ball into a tight window or take a risk when you have to. And we've seen Darnold do a lot of those things, but what it really came down to,

to me was executing the plan that they laid out. And when we evaluate Kweisi Adafomensa as a general manager, a lot of people focus on one particular draft that went wrong. And I get it. We love the draft. It was the first impression of Kweisi Adafomensa as a GM. It was his first big jump into the GM pool and he just crashed, right? It didn't go well at all. Ed Ingram wasn't even active last week. It's a, it's pretty tough scene. Uh, Dalton Reisner after this week outperforming the 2022 draft pick it's, it's not, it's a tough scene with the 2022 draft, but to me that is focusing so much on the trees and not the forest. The bigger picture was from start in 2022, leading up to when you make that call to move

on from Kirk Cousins, to enter the great unknown of the quarterback world, to believe in what you have, which is Jefferson, Derrissaw, O'Connell, and then eventually adding Jordan Addison and TJ Hawkinson to the mix. Also knowing that you can improve quarterback play by getting more weapons and spending draft capital on weapons like Jordan Addison, like TJ Hawkinson, and stacking up everything around your quarterback, giving him the best potential chance to succeed. Can you recreate what Kirk Cousins was able to do or more with all these people around him? And the answer has been yes. And even then some Sam Darnold is performing at right now, a higher level than almost any Kirk Cousins season. I think 2019

is probably the only one where he played as well as Sam Darnold is right now. And even then, they limited the amount that they threw with him. That was a run first offense, and it was his lowest passing attempt total. And with Darnold, they are now in the mode as they have not run the ball particularly great recently of putting a lot on his shoulders and he has been up to the challenge in these last three weeks again I don't think any one of us would have seen it coming that Sam Darnold would be this good but also it was a good bet to make so the front office having this plan, the coaching staff, Kevin O'Connell, having this plan and executing it and moving on from Cousins is one of the most important things to happen to the franchise. And you can't help but think about the other outcome and what we would be talking about right now. If the shoe was on the other foot and Kirk Cousins stayed here and think about they've got a similar offense. They've got weapons, not quite as good as these weapons, but

they're very good. Drake London, Kyle Pitts, Bijan Robinson, they've got all sorts of players and they're six and six and they have a negative point differential. And he just had one of those Kirk Cousins meltdown games with four interceptions that we saw so many times. They've had late-game comebacks that have kept them alive. They've had the 500-yard game kind of out of nowhere for Kirk Cousins. I mean, they have checked off all the Kirk Cousins is your quarterback bingo boxes, except for now with this Achilles injury it looks like he's physically

fading and that doesn't mean not take him seriously as he comes here with all those good players and they can run the ball so well and they're going to throw it short just like other teams have just like arizona did to stay on the field so they could lose this game against kirk cousins he can bounce back we've seen him bounce back in many ways over the years when you thought it was over. But in the slightly bigger picture of this season, the Vikings are tracking as a real, true competitive team into the playoffs. And the Atlanta Falcons are the Vikings from what year? All of them?

Where who believes in them? Anybody? Nobody, right? Kings from what year, all of them where who believes in them, anybody, nobody. Right. And then I still had the theory the night of the draft that they must've gotten a look at his physical, where, where he stood with that Achilles and decided to draft Michael Penix because they didn't think it would necessarily hold up. Uh, and I was going back today, having a really good time reading old draft grades for Michael Penix, C, C minus D, what are they doing? Why would they ever draft this guy? Well, now they look pretty smart for drafting Michael Penix because they might need him in the coming weeks if cousins continues to play this way. But I just keep going back to thinking about how it could have been here.

It could have been the discussion that we were having right now. What do they do? And if McCarthy had gotten hurt, same sort of thing. If they had still drafted McCarthy, then even more so like, what do you do? You're just out on another wasted season Island with Kirk cousins. And it would have been year seven. It would have been dead cap space. It would have been how they build around him. Grenard Van Ginkle, Cashman, Gilmore, all these players players maybe you get one of them as opposed to four of them and you wouldn't have the future cap space and you wouldn't have the future potential I mean at the way that

Darnold's playing it's an argument now between whether they should extend Sam Darnold or just turn things over to JJ McCarthy but think about that decision that you get to make. This former number three overall pick who's playing top 10 football or the top 10 overall pick who you loved in training camp and in the preseason, that's spoiled for choice for the Vikings now at the quarterback position because they moved on from Cousins because the ownership agreed to this plan that was laid out by this leadership.

And sometimes I think that when it comes to O'Connell and Kweisi Adafo-Mensa, that I think Vikings fans have struggled a little bit to accept how competent and good their team has run. Because for so long, we kept going back to well they're extending cousins again and they're signing michael pierce or they're signing bashad breland and mackenzie alexander is coming back and so is shamar stephan it will see if it works this time and that we were just always kind of hammering away at the same point you can't win

this way and to break free of those shackles and now that the fresh air that came into the organization i think you really felt it from the beginning of the season and it has been by far beyond best case scenario with sam darnold truly one of the best decisions that this franchise has ever made. And we'll see where it goes from here. But as you go down the stretch and as they play the Atlanta Falcons, it's good to keep some perspective on it. As you get annoyed with the team for falling behind the very good Arizona Cardinals, hey, remember where you could be, which is the four interception game from Kirk Cousins, who is stumbling around back there because his leg doesn't work the same as it used to. And they're locked into that contract for four years, whether it's going to be him

playing or it's, I think it's 65 million on the cap next year, and it doesn't look like he could get through another year of football in the NFL. So a really, really wise decision to draw a line in the sand. And this even goes back to after 2022. He had that great season. I think most ownership, most GMs, most management would have said, get him set up, four- your contract. Top five money. We got it. We got to make sure we have them. We just won 13 games. It is really, really unique for a team to win 13 games and say to their quarterback. Nah, we're good. We're not paying

you that much because after Daniel Jones got paid 40 million, of course, Kirk wanted more than that. And the Vikings said, I just don't think we can do it. And that's what sent this on the path to be 10 and two heading into this game where none of us ever thought that we would actually be. So let me get to your questions, comments, Manny's going to join in a couple of minutes here and we'll answer questions and he will of course pick the schedule as he always does. We'll start with Mike. Hopefully the Vikings will be able to pressure whoever plays quarterback for the Falcons. Last two weeks of ultra mobile guys has put a lot of stress on the secondary. Yeah, so this one is going to be all about can Kirk Cousins get rid of the football quickly they're going to blitz him they're going to try to hit him they're going to try to get him to move

and they're going to try to confuse him to make him stay in the pocket how many times I mean nobody knows better how many times was it Pat the football Pat the football strip sack they do have a pretty good offensive line, but what you really saw is I think the Vikings will be trying to chase the football in the secondary because that ball is just not moving. And it wasn't moving really in 2022. I thought that there was a significant drop in the velocity of Kirk cousins throwing in 2022, where if you go back to early in the season, there's a lot of balls that just don't have juice on them. And then last year, maybe it came back to some extent when he was winning those couple of games against San Francisco and playing well. He played a great game

against San Francisco and a great game against Green Bay. But I thought that a lot of that was him kind of drew breezing it, like throwing with anticipation, accuracy, knowing where to throw the football. And those two defenses, Kevin O'Connell knows extremely well, and he lit them up. But that was something I went back to over and over in the off season when we were debating this was, how is he going to throw the football hard when he didn't before and now when you see Sam Darnold make these throws you go this is it right there this is what was missing for so long was it doesn't have to be that open it can be pretty covered and Sam Darnold can fire it in there and that's the reason by the, not to go get Jacoby Brissett.

It's the reason not to sign Gardner Minshew. It's the reason that they brought Darnold in, which was another great decision, a really great decision actually, by O'Connell and Adolfo Mensah. But that was always the big shortcoming with Cousins. How can you overcome anything? If a guy breaks into the backfield on fourth and eight, you got to check

it down because you can't get the football down the field. And I think that that play really stuck with them. I think the fourth and eight play really stuck with them that when Ezra Cleveland couldn't hold that block and Dexter Lawrence breaks through, he couldn't make the quick decision to just snap the football downfield. Cause he doesn't have the arm strength to do it. The raw arm strength. He has to put a lot into it. So he has to roll out, but he doesn't have the speed to get away.

So he has no other option than to check down. And I think that that play just reverberated like just every time the discussion is coming up, should we extend them? I don't know man that fourth and eight play and then as you've seen some of the plays that Sam Darnold has made in the clutch some of the throws that he's made in the clutch those are top five arm talent type of throws and you kind of see that difference of against the Colts they they win the rep. He's rolling out and he throws the ball to Jordan Addison anyway, because he can. How about the throw on the sideline to Jordan Addison? Just

freakish stuff by Sam Darnold and O'Connell talked about that today. So we've really seen the stark contrast of those things, those little things that were missing between a quarterback that can get you to 10-2 and get you over the top and not have to have it be against the easiest schedule with the bad point differential and all those asterisks, but just be a good 10-2 team as the Vikings are right now, those things were always missing. And if Kirk Cousins had been a middle middle middle paid quarterback if there was such a thing or a cheaper quarterback and they could get all the defensive players from free agency that they needed over those years or in 2022 or in 2021 rather than patch working all the time with chan and sullivan or whatever other signing they had to bring in, much respect to Jordan Hicks, but same kind of deal.

Instead, they're able to go get day one guys, three day one guys. And you're seeing it really come together in a way that truly, I did not even think it would happen this fast. I thought next year was the year that this would all come together, but we have now reached the point of saying,

yeah, it happened. It happened very quickly, but in the way that they drew of saying, yeah, it happened. It happened very quickly, but in the way that they drew it up. And that's the thing too, when we talk about this team and how much you're buying into it. And I just don't feel quite the fan buy-in. Maybe it's because they don't want to love Sam Darnold. They want to love JJ McCarthy. The crowd wasn't into it very much the other day. I understand why they weren't playing super well, but I mean, when I watch Darnold play, I see so much talent and I see so many throws that couldn't have happened before. And I also see a $10 million price tag

that they were able to build this excellently talented team around him and you go this this was it this was what they aimed for and that last offseason changed everything uh for this organization so let's get uh mr manny hill in here uh manny i to tell you, my friend, what a time to be alive with the Vikings being 10-2 and the Falcons 6-6. It just couldn't have lined up any more perfectly for the Vikings to say, we made the right decision than what happened last week. tremendous game winning drive with Superman throws from Sam Darnold following a great performance in Chicago juxtaposed with Kirk Cousins not being able to throw the football anymore in Atlanta and that doesn't mean I think the Vikings will just steamroll and we'll get to your picks for the rest of the season but it's it is really shining a big giant floodlight on how smartly the Vikings front office handled the entire quarterback situation from the time they got here to after 2022 not extending Kirk Cousins to this last

offseason saying hey we love you thanks for the memories 2022 was great sorry about your Achilles but we can't be that team for you yeah i mean i think it just really represents all the things that i think people like you and i were arguing with some fans about when it came to kirk cousins and why his tenure here was so complicated and why it was so sort of divisive because it wasn't that Kirk wasn't good in the six years that he was here, but because of the contract and because of where he kind of, we both kind of hate quarterback rankings,

but where he sort of stood in the quarterback pecking order of the league that he was getting paid like a top five quarterback, but he wasn't really one of the five best quarterbacks in the league. And because of his contract, it just made things so much more challenging for them to really build a contending team around him. with Kirk Cousins, but as you have said many times for the last six, seven years, the circumstances have to be really perfect for him to be successful at a high level. And when you take that money off of the books and you insert Sam Darnold at $10 million, like you were saying, it gives you the cap space to be able to go and get a Jonathan Grenard. My God, what a signing that has been, that has turned out to be. It gives you cap space to get an Andrew Van Ginkle.

How good has he been this year? You know, Stefan Gilmore, you know, to be able to have some cap space near the end of training camp to, you know, when you realize we need another corner, we need some more depth of corner. Let's go get the best guy on the market and give him, you know, what is he, is he making 10 million? I think this year, you know what I mean? Like the Vikings were just, they just weren't able to make moves and signings like that really for the entire time that Kirk Cousins was here. And it just made things so much more challenging.

That's why they were constantly a 500 team. And now when you see that you're able to go out and make those moves because you have more cap space because your quarterback room your overall quarterback room is cheap we're seeing the results they're 10 and 2 and it's largely because of how sam donald has played but it's also because of the other guys that they went and got in free agency this year and how they've played as well as really contributed to their success. You know,

there's another part of the dynamic too with cousins and you're absolutely right about Jonathan Grenard, him and maybe you get him and that's it though. And you don't get Cashman. You don't get Van Ginkle. You don't get, you definitely don't get the last second signing of Gilmore for sure. But another part of it was they always with kirk

cousins had to live in panic mode and it wasn't until 2022 to 2023 which i think is where quesadilla fomento deserves the most credit because from 2022 to 2023 they finally stopped being in panic mode and they said, all right, Adam Thielen, who made a great catch for Carolina the other day, if you didn't see it, it was amazing. But, but Adam Thielen, you don't really fit our timeline. So goodbye, Delvin cook. You don't fit our timeline. Goodbye. Delvin Tomlinson. We love you. You're a great player,

but you're not quite worth that and you don't really fit our timeline. And they started to think in terms of future. And it wasn't just through draft picks, which they tried to trade down, get more draft picks and think for the future that blew up in their face. But even someone like TJ Hawkinson thinking for the future of surrounding the quarterback, how are you going to do it? Find the replacement for Thielen, who's 21 years old. Find that tight end who's a top five tight end in the league at catching the football and is basically a number three wide receiver, just happens to be big and hairy.

But he is really, really good in terms of deep routes, separation, all those things. Getting guys who can win one-on-one for your future quarterback, thinking about future cap space. So not, hey, let's just squeeze out. Let's wring that towel in the cap space. Hey, Rob Brzezinski, can we just restructure one more? Wring that thing out.

And the other thing, too, is if they would have an injury or the kicker would stumble, then it was, you got to cut it or you have to go trade for Chris Herndon, or you have to make panicked signings. If your draft pick corners, aren't working out the way you expect it to, there was just so much panic. And when they decided not to extend them after 2022, that lifted from the organization and they were able to think long-term. And I think a long-term viewpoint was, hey, let's look a year down the road. Hey, wait a minute.

There's six projected first round quarterbacks. I remember Mel Kuyper saying that there were six or seven projected first rounders and people were like, Mel, are you on crack? Like, there's no way there's going to be that many, but he was right. There was, there was six first rounders and people were like, Mel, are you on crack? Like, there's no way there's going to be that many, but he was right. There was, there was six first rounders. And so they looked down the road finally to the future and what they were going to do in their time horizon or window or whatever you want to call it. And that decision has sent them off on this path where Manny, I mean, they're great this year. They're not as good as two or three other teams. I get that, but they're a really, really good football team this year,

right in the mix with everybody else. And we still don't feel like they're even as good as they could be down the road with the cap space that they have. And so now you're sitting here going like, wait, wait a minute, white, this happened faster than you thought and so now the biggest problem that might be on their hands is if sam darnold has a top seven season of all quarterbacks in the nfl which he is right there right now like now do we pay this other really super talented quarterback that's the biggest problem they're facing not how do we wring every dollar out of that salary cap to work around a quarterback who just isn't good enough to take you there. It provides just the overall flexibility that they have to sort of choose a path. Like you said, with Sam Darnold, like, OK, if they go all the way to the NFC championship game,

or let's say they go all the way to the super bowl and sam darnold's playing really well yeah it's a little bit of a problem because they have to make a decision now on sam darnold what they want to do with him but it's in a lot of ways it's kind of a good problem to have because if you do decide to move on from sam darnold well you have jj mccarthy now that you can kind of turn the page to and let's see how this turns out with this young quarterback that we drafted last year you know what i mean that's the kind of the mentality that they can have and i don't think that there's really a way that they could go wrong with it the only way i could see this situation this sort of scenario with darnold and mccarthy in the future and everything sort of going wrong or going haywire is if

they pay Sam Darnold and then he just regresses back to Jets or Panthers or even like Panthers Sam Darnold even if he's you know he played well at times in Carolina but like if you're paying him 45 million dollars a year and he's playing like he did in Carolina like that's not gonna be good enough you're gonna be 500 team and then we're back to kind of where we were with Kirk Cousins at that point um but I don't I don't get the sense that what we're seeing from Sam this year is a fluke I don't think that this is this is something like a one-off type of thing because you talked about the the physical tools the talent, you know, he's 27 years old. He's kind of starting to enter like the prime of his career. This is like the peak of

his career over these next, you know, maybe handful of years or so. This is kind of the sweet spot for him. And this is an opportunity for him to really kind of continue to build on what he's been able to experience now. Last year with San Francisco, being in that locker room, being on a team that goes to the Super Bowl, and then this year starting a full season with Kevin O'Connell, a guy that's going to really, you know, push him and, you know, uplift him and show confidence in him, belief in him. And just, you know, an overall organization that, you know, this, in terms of just like operation and, you know, people wanting to play for this team, like this, this is the overall culture that this team has.

That's good. It's, it's big. It's big for somebody like Sam Donald as well. So it's a, it's an, it's an interesting dilemma for them big for somebody like sam donald as well so it's a it's an it's an interesting dilemma for them to be in but i don't necessarily think it's a bad one and i think koc and quasi deserve a ton of credit for that and it goes back to that decision to move on from the guys that they needed to move on from over the last couple of years yeah i mean when you compare dilemmas oh no we have two quarterbacks who could play and we could

build around and can win a lot of games and uh sam darnold has played at a level that is deserving of 10 wins uh when you look at where he ranks by whether it's traditional stats or the pff grades or whatever you want to look at he's up there with the other big arm quarterbacks and that's really the difference between darnold and any other conversation we've had in the past like this like the hey should they stick with Case Keenum he has some magic to him but Case Keenum was six foot tall and had no real arm and just had a magical season and like all credit to him he made the throws and he made the plays but it took kind of a miracle for that to happen he wasn't all that to him he made the throws and he made the plays but it took kind of a miracle for that to happen he wasn't all that accurate and he couldn't fit it into tight windows

and he kind of just threw it up and somebody caught it for a whole season uh and they really couldn't throw the ball a lot with him they ran a lot they ran a lot of play action they ran a lot of screens they kind of cartooned it up to make sure that he could run that offense as you do with backups this is a fully different conversation with someone who is drafted third overall kind of cartooned it up to make sure that he could run that offense as you do with backups. This is a fully different conversation with someone who has drafted third overall and is a really giant dude. Like he's not six, six, but width wise, core wise, strength wise, he's built like a linebacker. He throws the ball so hard. The other players, the coaches, can you believe these throws? Can you believe the velocity? I was talking to a hard the other players the coaches they're like can you believe these throws

can you believe the velocity i was talking to a player the other day who's like we just watch the back on tape and like rewind and watch again rewind we're just like how did he do it but that's why he was picked it was all the other stuff that needed to be refined and then the situation around him but when you talk about the other part of it too is okay are they going to kirk this thing again with Darnold if they pay him and that I don't think is the case because not every person who gets paid is a total disaster immediately after there is a there is a path to still make this work with the plan that they laid out it's just a little different so this year they're paying 40 million dollars to the quarterback position 28 is going to the other team's

quarterback this week of dead cap money how fun that is uh that's why you sign them right atlanta so you can have dead cap for the rest of your existence as a franchise uh but anyway yeah yeah they're gonna be paying a lot of, uh, Denver's paying Russell Wilson to have 10 wins or whatever in Pittsburgh to strange world we have here. But the point is that Darnold, well, one has the raw town. So that's just different on its face right there. You need less, I think for someone who could throw the ball that hard, but you've already got all those foundational pieces around it. It's not like you have to go get a left tackle. It's not like you have to go get wide receiver one or two or a tight end. Everything is set up. The offensive line is

blocking really well for him. It's not like you have to get him a new coach where he's already got his coach in place. So there's a predictability. There's also, if you sign him to a short-term deal and you develop McCarthy for another year, oh no, he'll be 23. What will we ever do then? Still younger than Bo Nix and Michael Penix in two years. And you can also sign contracts and push them out because what you want to start doing in a Superbowl window, when you start winning double digit games, that, when you start winning double digit games, that's when you start playing with the cap and yeah, five years from now, that might be a problem for you. But if you're in this time now, even if you didn't think you were going to arrive

here quite yet, then you do everything you can. So you can go out and you can get the defensive tackle for next year who could get in the backfield and you make his first year salary cap hit lower. And then into the future, it will rise when you assume that you will either move on from Darnold or he'll compete for a Superbowl. And then you got to give him the big extension and then you deal with it then. Right. But you can extend this thing out for another year, which seems like the ballpark that they're kind of approaching. If he continues to play this way. And, and what I just don't see here, Manny, I just don't see where the regression is. I mean, he'll have a bad game. He'll have another bad game for sure. Every quarterback does, but I don't see there's no gimmickiness to this. It doesn't feel random that a guy with this arm and this size can throw these

footballs and play this confidently under Kevin O'Connell. I don't know. Maybe I'm missing something, but like, it's not a, you know, it's not like they, they sort of Jimmy rigged the offense just so he could get some good numbers

like Kyle Shanahan would do with Jimmy Garoppolo or something like this feels like sam darnold's out there just make it plays you know what has really impressed me about him this year too is just the aside from the physical tools which are like to your point of are just outrageous the arm strength and the ability to the athleticism to run and escape out of the pocket uh when when he's under duress but like up here is i think is legit too like i the the mental toughness that this guy has shown this year in situations where things kind of get out of control where they have have a big lead in Green Bay and, you know, the Packers come back and make it a game again, and they need a drive to just go down and execute and get a field goal. They did that. You know what I mean? Chicago, when the 11-point lead evaporated in 22 seconds,

the defense gets to stop in overtime. And then what does Darnold do when he gets the ball in overtime? He just marches right down the field. It's TJ Hawkinson and Jordan Addison for a couple big plays that kick the field goal, and they win. And then the fact that they lost that 11-point lead doesn't really matter much because you found a way to win that game. Yesterday, oh, my God, just that drive drive to the essentially the game winning drive, the throws that he made the fourth and was at fourth and six to Jefferson.

I mean, that's that's big boy execution stuff. And the fact that he's doing it in a very calm demeanor and not panicking and not you know because i mean you know kirk and i hate to keep making like the kirk comparison but like you know kirk had game-winning drives as well you know especially in 2022 he had a lot of those game-winning drives but everything it always seemed sort of like crazy and chaotic and you know kirk's running and he's waving his hands and he's doing all this other stuff and oh my god he hits kj and he's waving his hands and he's doing all this other stuff. And oh my God, he hits KJ Osborne for a big touchdown and the Vikings win the game. You know what I mean? And it's like, that was good. That was great. But like,

it just, there's, there's something about Sam's demeanor that just seems a little bit different to where there's just a little bit more, like he's under control and he knows exactly what to do in those type of situations, which is crazy because sometimes you see him earlier in games, he'll make some throws where he's sort of trying to force it to Justin Jefferson. You're like, Sam, what are you doing? Don't do that. This guy, you know, Addison crossing pattern right here. He's wide open. Don't do that. But it seems like when the situation situation gets more dire for whatever reason i can't explain it for whatever reason he seems to just sort of calm down he just goes out and he makes the throws that he needs to make and it just it just works and to your point i don't think i don't think this is a

fluke i think this is what he has kind of become under you you know, let's, let's not overstate, you know, the, or let's not understate the year that he spent in San Francisco, just sitting behind Brock Purdy, again, on that team that has a deep run all the way to the Superbowl. It's more practice. It's more time with his teammates, more, you know more time in an environment that's about competence and winning and execution and getting things done. And then he comes here and a lot of the same sort of things. So I think this is legit. And, you know, I don't know. I don't know how this is going to finish and what they decide to do with him, but it's going to be fascinating to find out. And I think whether it's here next year or somewhere else,

he's going to get a bag and he deserves it. He's earned it. Let's continue this conversation and then we'll pick the schedule shortly. But I want to get to some people's comments here. Hunter says, Darnold's been clutched. No other way to put it. And that surprised me.

You know, so in 2021 when the vikings faced him and his team dropped like 13 passes in a single game and then he was down eight and came back and scored a touchdown and then converted the two-point conversion at that moment i was like oh okay wow and i know that defense wasn't all that good, but I mean, he flashed some, some serious talent there and you saw him in Carolina in 2022, win some games. It's not like it was never there. He's had game winning drives. He's had some fourth quarter comebacks. It's just that his teams were really bad and he would get behind. And I remember looking in the off season at all of the numbers when he

wasn't playing from down two scores, when he wasn't trying to desperately get his team back in games and he played like a pretty good quarterback. And I remember looking at when he was given support, when he threw to DJ more, what did it look like when he ran play action? What did it look like? And it all looked like an NFL starting quarterback. It was when he had to do everything else that it didn't look that way because he didn't have the support. He didn't have the coaching. He didn't have the wide receivers. Another part of it too, is you mentioned the clutchness. That's certainly been impressive that he never seems to get shaken. I would say also that the way he's handled this whole thing, they bring him in at 10 million bucks.

He knows they're going to draft a quarterback. They draft a quarterback. He and JJ McCarthy go on a golf trip with the other quarterbacks right away. Like that's the way he handles it and connects with his teammates really well, has a tremendous training camp. Everyone wants to see McCarthy. He knows that there's no way he missed it. Every single day is when's McCarthy going to get first team reps. Is McCarthy going to get first team

reps? I'd love to see some first team reps for McCarthy. Okay, Sam, it's great that you're out, even with the fans out there at TCO performance center. Okay. That was a good Justin Jefferson catch, but this check now by JJ McCarthy, Like that was how it was because nobody thought that he was going to be the guy. And you never saw him take any sort of attitude like that. Or, you know, you guys are doubting me or any nonsense. It was not seemingly in his head. They played the jets this year. He had nothing to say about it.

Just went and played the jets, won the game, came back home. The way that he has just managed this entire thing and then he has the horse bleep game against jacksonville we knew it was going to happen at some point and the big thing was where does he go from here three straight games where he's either great against chicago or at least when they needed the most good enough to go win the game against Arizona. Jason says, Sam does not pass the eye test. He looks lost for one or two quarters, every game move on after this year, stick to the original plan. I just don't see that. I think when, when I think about an eye test, I mean, first of all, like we watch every single Vikings game so closely, every single

play under a microscope, go, go watch a Bengals game under a microscope. And like, you're going to see times where even the great quarterbacks, Joe Burrow, the homes this year, it's not always this perfectly smooth, flawless operation for every single quarter. That's why we use the accumulation of the statistics to tell the story, which is that he's been a top 10 quarterback. But this is the offense too. The offense is like that. It's always going to be like that, where if they're hunting big plays early and they're not there,

it's going to slow down. Also, his running back fumbled, like right in, you know, completes a pass, fumbles the ball. I thought that that kind of threw them for a loop, but Chicago, that was five good quarters. That was, that was more than that. Tennessee, that was four good quarters, Indianapolis. There's two mistakes mixed in, but otherwise four good quarters of football. I don't know. Yeah.

I guess we could criticize it for how he played against green Bay when they were up by 28 points or whatever. I don't know exactly when i think i test manny i think arm talent leadership command of the offense make a place and winning all that and winning winning winning yeah my god they're 10 and two yeah like a lot of talking about here Like they are winning football games and it's not this. This is not, you know, he's playing. This is this is Sam Darnold is not Trent Dilfering this thing. Okay. This is not like the Vikings defense has been good this year. For the most part, it's been very good. But this is not like the 2000 Ravens and Trent Dilfer is getting away. We're throwing for 120 yards and maybe a touchdown and the Ravens are winning 13 to nine. Like Sam Darnold is out there making plays when the team is up big and the lead, you know, shrinks down or the other team comes back and ties it up and you need him to make a play. You need him to make a throw. I mean, do people now realize, and again, I'm trying not to

over, you know, I'm trying not to overstate this. Do people not realize how freaking cold-blooded that fourth down conversion on that last drive was like, you don't get that done you don't execute that game's over it's over you've lost and for him to just calmly go and execute that play and then continue to move them down and get the touchdown to aaron jones like we've seen him do that multiple times now that i i don't know what i test other people are looking at when When you've seen that happen enough, and this team is 10-2, and they've been finding ways to win games the way they have this year, I don't – I'm seeing a different eye test, I guess, maybe. So Michael says, and this one kind of made me laugh a little,

JJ was out playing Darnold at times during training camp, even though JJ should be completely healed by January. I would still have him as the backup next year if Darnold wants to stay here. So the second part I agree with, but I, you know, I mean, unless you were at every single training camp practice like I was, but he didn't take any first team reps in the whole off season. It was, he was reaching the point where he was going to, but he was not out playing Sam Darnold in training camp. Like Sam Darnold had a great

training camp and Sam Darnold was going to start week one and had Darnold started week one, they were going to Cleveland with JJ having a chance to really show his stuff and make it interesting for Kevin O'Connell. But having not taken any first team reps through the entire spring or summer, it was going to be Darnold. And if they started five and oh, it would still be Darnold. And the only time McCarthy's name would have come up is after the Jacksonville game, but it would still be Darnold. So that was never going to be the case. It's just that I don't know if that like there became some sort of training camp mythology about JJ McCarthy after he got hurt, but he was doing great.

I mean, I'm not downplaying that McCarthy was doing great, but you can't say he was out playing him when he wasn't taking any first team reps like Sam. That's the thing about Darnold is that he's never not been good from the time he got here. He was good in mini camp. he was good in minicamp. He was good in training camp. The only time he struggled was in those joint practices, which were against one of the best defenses in the league. But then, you know, and Addison got hurt as well in those practices.

But he's never not been good for this team. And what I was going to say is you don't have to pick a side when it comes to jj mccarthy and sam darnold they both play for your team you don't have to do this like you don't have to root for darnold to fail so you can have mccarthy because he's the guy that you wanted but sometimes it feels like that's what we have a little bit of here and And I'll tell you a tale, Manny, that you can appreciate, and I don't know how much of our audience can. Once upon a time, I learned about the quarterback controversy in Buffalo with Rob Johnson and Doug Flutie.

And let me tell you, let me tell you, it got nasty. It broke up households. People were, Team Rob Johnson, he's's more talented flutie is just a fluke and the owner wanted rob johnson because they traded a first round pick for him and yet the uh you know the the coach wade phillips wanted doug flutie because he was winning games and it really split the fan base and you just don't have to do that. And that was probably like that in San Francisco with Steve Young and Joe Montana. And when's Steve Young going to play and they would bench Montana and put

young in and all those things. It's like they both play for your team. And if Sam Darnold plays well enough to earn a franchise tag or short-term extension or something, that means he played super good. That means he played so well that he moved your franchise off their entire plan. That's really high bar. That means he played freaking incredible. And if he doesn't, you have this quarterback that your head coach called the future of the franchise and was thrilled about during training camp where he was very good i'm just saying he wasn't winning the competition when he got hurt

he was maybe going to get some first team reps but the point just being like your your team went from screwed at quarterback with an old mid expensive guy who couldn't make a play on fourth and eight. To now being like, boy, I don't know if I like this rocket arm dude who was the third overall pick or the 10th overall pick who looked awesome. Man, like it's a good position to be in. Yes, it's a good problem to have. It's a great problem to have. And I don't really think that there's a wrong path for them to go with this, because if they do decide to move on from Sam and, you know, Sam wants to go elsewhere and get a get a huge bag and great for him, then you have J.J. McCarthy as your option for 2025 and you're going to have all the cap space that you can go out and spend and bring in players to try and bolster this roster even more.

But if you have a chance to bring Sam back, if Sam continues to play well and you go on a deep playoff run and he plays great in that playoff run and he wants to come back, you can give him like a Baker Mayfield type of deal and you you can still have JJ McCarthy kind of in your back pocket. And JJ McCarthy wouldn't be the first quarterback to sit for a couple of years before he got his opportunity to start. I mean, we saw that with Aaron Rodgers and turned out OK. We saw that with Aaron Rodgers' successor. And so far, it looks like it's turned out okay.

So, you know, and you brought up the Joe Montana, Steve Young situation. Steve Young was backing up Joe Montana for what? Five, four, five years before he got his opportunity to start at like 30 years old. Turned out okay for them still. So you don't have to force feed the issue of you know you don't have to square peg round hole this jj mccarthy situation you have a little bit of time to let that simmer if you need to um but if you know the if the sam option becomes you you know, he goes elsewhere, then you have JJ and you're not in a panic mode. You're not feeling like you got to spend your first round pick in 2025, which might be depending on how far you go, might be like the 28th pick in the draft. You don't have to worry about, oh, Sam just left in free agency.

We don't have a quarterback. We got to draft somebody and we're not high enough to draft him. So now we need to use more capital to trade up and take a guy. You know what I mean? You already have that guy. So it's not a terrible problem to be in. And again, I got to credit the GM and the head coach also for kind of instilling this culture as well.

They're sitting in a good spot right now. I don't really see how anybody can have any real complaints well and they've done what philadelphia and san francisco have done which is create an environment where quarterbacks can succeed i mean jalen hurts and brock purdy are really good quarterbacks i know pretty struggling but my gosh look at that team it's just a mess right now with injuries and McCaffrey going out just like crushing the other night, but he's still, he's still a good quarterback. He took them to the Superbowl. Jalen hurts proven this year that he's still a good quarterback. The environment

doesn't hurt where they've put all the skill players around him and the good coaching around those guys. And it just ups your odds of being able to succeed. And that's like Russell Wilson goes to Pittsburgh and he's succeeding because they got weapons and they got good coaching and a running game. And like, there you go. You have a good environment and a good franchise and it works. So I think there would be a lot of confidence in going to JJ McCarthy. But what Mel killed here says, JJ McCarthy is nearly a finished product. Vision check, arm strength, check, clutch, what Mel killed here says, uh, JJ McCarthy is nearly a finished product.

Vision check, arm strength, check, clutch check, only need footwork help and got it. He got hurt. Otherwise he would have been playing. Uh, that last part's not true at all. No, he would not have been playing if Sam Darnold started five and oh, and was 10 and two, he would not have, he would not have come off the bench. I promise you that. Uh, but when it comes to that other stuff, I think you're

right that he has good vision and he has really good arm strength. And I think that he has great confidence and leadership and all the reasons that they drafted him, but finished product, this is the trouble. No way. Not anywhere close to a finished product after what one preseason game. No, no. It took Sam Darnold how long to be a finished product. We're not even sure if he is a finished product that no JJ McCarthy is nowhere close to that. And there is the potential issue with, if you go to the NFC championship with Sam Darnold, and then you're going to turn to someone who is not a finished product, who hasn't played any football, how is that going to go for,

how is that going to go in the locker room? How's that going to go for your team? And if he's not phenomenal right away, if he doesn't go five and oh, right out of the gate, well then how does that feel? How, where, where are we at then? So if you go so far with Sam Darnold, it's going to be to the point where you're like, this is the quarterback level of play that we were looking for the whole time. We just found it in a different guy than we expected to kind of like how Brock Purdy was that guy and not Trey Lance. You go, well, you invested all that in one guy. It turned out to be the other guy, but Oh, well, uh, JJ McCarthy would be closer to a finished product. If he waited another year to play as opposed to this year, because he's not on the field. He's not working when it, uh, with the footwork and anything else.

I mean, he is going to be still quite a ways away from being a finished product. He's 21. Yeah. He's 21 years old. I don't even know when he turns 22. Uh, I think his birthday is in January. So he'll be 20.

He'll be 22 next month. Yeah. But, but yeah, he's 21 years old. He's not even remotely close to being a finished product. And that's okay. That's okay.

Of course. Of course. It's okay. It doesn't mean you have to rush them out there either, but it, but it might mean that they need to bring back sam darnold if they're like right there that slowpoke says what happens if they hoist the lamardy trophy then what to do with sam uh you build a statue of them yeah i don't know i don't i don't care

what they do at that point you can do whatever you want to do an extension you sign up to an extension because that's that's your guy i mean if you win a super bowl and and i did there are except there are exceptions to this rule i mean you know the eagles when they won with dick foals they didn't really like give him a statue or sign him to this big mega contract or anything um you know they they kept him around and he ended up helping them win a playoff game the next season as well um but you know for the most part i think that you helping them win a playoff game the next season as well. But, you know, for the most part, I think that you, if you win a Super Bowl with Sam Darnold with the way he has played this year and at his current age at, you know, 27 years old, where he's still got a lot of really good football, you know,

in theory and in front of him, you sign him to a long-term deal and that's your guy. And then you just kind of figure it out with jj mccarthy maybe you if sam continues to play really well over the next couple of years after that you just keep rolling with him and then maybe somebody you can trade jj mccarthy and maybe get a first round pick for him that's not that's that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing either uh kerpluppi says if sam resigns are there examples of quarterbacks like him uh earning a franchise contract extension in a resurrection year who resigned and continued to be a top 10 quarterback the thing about the sam darnold situation is that it is i don't want to

say completely without precedent but it kind of is i mean mean, I don't know. I'm trying to think right on the fly. Are there other top five quarterbacks in the draft who went somewhere else and then became a franchise quarterback and played like this just period that ever had a good year? It never really happens. I mean, you can't really, I mean, you can say Baker, who's continued to play great, by the way, but Baker was good in Cleveland and then they just screwed it up, but he had them in the playoffs. Geno Smith was a second round draft pick who was good, but not on the talent level, raw talent of Sam Darnold.

There's just not examples of this happening. What, Vinny Testaverde? I mean, there really isn't. So if you're talking about examples, first of all, I don't think history really projects what's going to happen with this guy right here, right now. But my thing is, as far as his continued play, what's changing?

Who's leaving? Normally what happens would be, okay, the guy has an outlier year where everything goes his way. I don't think that's been the case i don't think that he's just thrown up balloons into the sky and had them fall in receivers hands i i don't think they've they've played a hard schedule at times like arizona's good green bay's good san francisco was tough when they played them houston's pretty good it's it's

not like they had some silly everything fell their way season they've turned the ball over they fumbled they gave up an onside kick like they've had things go wrong and he has fought through them so i i just don't know i can't think of another quarterback who has been like this of his talent level that found his spot somewhere else. And he's 27. That's the other part of this thing too. It's, it's not like it's even rich Gannon who I talked to before the season about Sam Darnold. He loves Sam Darnold by the way. Uh, and he, he bought into the Sam Darnold idea. He actually talked to KOC about, uh, Sam Darnold. Uh, but you know, rich Gannon showed up many years later. It's not even like that i i don't know i

mean you're the you're the history wizard on this show you tell me oh yeah i'm just trying to as you were talking i was trying to think of another situation that was similar to this and i can't really think of one where it's a guy that was not one yeah i mean we're talking about a guy that was yeah maybe i guess sort of maybe jim jim plunkett he was a top draft pick yeah who won super bowl the raiders yeah won a couple super bowls actually with them um yeah i don't i don't know that might plunkett might be the closest thing that i can think of that might be the closest thing to being similar to this yeah i can't think of another guy i think plunkett what after he won the super bowl he still got benched right if i'm remembering my history uh so maybe

that will be exactly the same i don't know yeah so they they won they beat the Eagles in Super Bowl XV in the Superdome. And then I think it was like three years later, they beat Washington. It was like their second year in L.A., the Raiders. And then they blew out the Washington football team down in Tampa. he was the quarterback that was the marcus allen crazy super bowl but yeah plunkett was quarterback of both of those teams but even i think at that point he had gotten i think into his 30s and you know like this like sam's 27 like you said he's 27 years old like this is a guy that we might not have we're not we might not even be seeing the best football from him yet you know what i mean and he's played very well this year this might not even be the best best football from him yet you know what i mean and he's played very well this year this might not even be the best version of sam donald that might still be you know yet to come so i don't know it's interesting you just never really know when life is gonna throw you a curveball i mean if they let's say they franchise tag sam donald and then he gets hurt the next year and jj m JJ McCarthy ends up playing like that could

happen. I don't know. Jimmy Garoppolo ended up playing after Trey Lance went bust and then he gets hurt and they bring in Brock Purdy and then he's the guy. I mean, you just, you never really know. There's so many stories of quarterbacks who you didn't expect to be this good. We're talking about top draft picks, but know the brady the kurt warner and then you know the brock purdy like sometimes this just happens that somebody finds the right spot and then it clicks and i think that's what we've seen from him but i i just want to be clear where i stand on this which is i'm still in the camp of like let's just see what happens well we'll know when we know about what they're going to do.

And I also will not be joining team Darnold or team McCarthy because I did watch every training camp practice and I was impressed like crazy with McCarthy. His development in a short period of time was as much as any player I've ever seen. I think both of your quarterbacks are extremely good and have a chance, both of them, to lead the team somewhere. It's just that if you get to a spot where Darnold is taking you deep into the playoffs and your offense is going to stay exactly the same, it's just going to be really hard to tell everybody

you're going to somebody else. That, I think, has to be really hard to tell everybody you're going to somebody else that, that I think has to be addressed. Although I was talking with Kevin Seifert about it and he thinks that if they won the super bowl, they'd still go to McCarthy. And my take on that is I, who cares if they, if they win the super bowl, I'll cover the super bowl, shut down purple insider and take a long vacation uh after i collect all of the uh diet dr pepper will finally sponsor me for the super bowl and after i collect that check

then we'll shut it down okay because it'll never get better than that and somebody else can do it so okay uh our goal was to pick the schedule and we just got off onto this fun uh discussion and that's the main thing too, is we started this conversation about, can you imagine if they brought back Kirk and just how different this would be, how different the vibes would be, the feeling, how different the record would be and all those things,

the conversation we are having a conversation about like, ah, well they go from this like really awesome top 10 quarterback this year to like the top draft pick who convinced KOC he was the future? What will they do? Think about our discussions in an alternate universe where they extend Kirk. Holy cow. It's what made this season so much fun. It's why I keep saying it every week. why i keep i keep saying it every week i'm gonna keep

saying it every week it's why this season has been the most fun watching this team since 2017 because it's just something fresh and new and you're you don't really know how it's going to finish and that's what makes it really exciting and intriguing and fun. So I, I love it. I love it. I'm having a blast. Okay. Let's pick the schedule.

Luckily it's a shorter schedule than it used to be. This bit used to take a really long time. So let me, let me get some music going here for us and we will get into how many wins you think the Vikings end up with Manny how about that there were there were there any iterations that got to 10 and 2 I don't think that there were I think there might have been one yeah I, I think there was one a couple of weeks ago. I think I had them beating Arizona and then losing to Atlanta,

maybe like a couple of weeks ago. You were close on this one. You thought they would kind of like hit a wall against Arizona. You were very close. Yeah, I just thought that this, I thought Arizona with Kyler Murray kind of being the dynamic running quarterback, maybe would present some problems for them on defense. And he kind of did. And, you know, and Jonathan Gannon being kind of a defensive mind can kind of,

you know, they were doing a lot of their, some of their blitz packages and some of the stuff that very Brian Flores-like, where they were just, you know, being very aggressive with blitz packages and everything. And that was kind of a problem for the Vikings yesterday. But they get the win and they're 10-2, which is great. And you know what? After what I saw from the Atlanta Falcons yesterday, the Vikings are going to be 11-2 when Sunday is over.

That team is, I'm not even sure they're going to make the playoffs with the way things are going for them right now kirk was awful and you gotta wonder if if he's even gonna make it to the end of the season before raheem morris just says all right that's enough let's go to michael pennix um i gotta think kirk will get get a shot to start this coming sunday it's his homecoming it's a big game um but i don't think it's going to go very well because Kirk Cousins is not a dynamic mobile quarterback that runs around and makes things difficult for a defense. And Brian Flores is going to have a field day. And the Vikings, I think, are going to take care of the Atlanta Falcons.

And I don't really think it's going to be particularly close. So here's the counterpoint. Every time we think we've got the NFL solved, it says, aha! Not so fast. Roger Goodell's script may have the Falcons surprising us here. It's only because the Vikings needed 80 plays on defense to beat the Cardinals that they are so worn down over these last two weeks that that's where I wonder about chasing around these weapons and Kirk is going to get

rid of the ball fast because he's not going to want to face these blitzes from Brian Flores and where they have had some struggles is when the opposing quarterback gets the ball out quickly they were able to stay on the field. Kyler Murray was doing it. Those short passes to McBride, the yards after catch. They did run a little bit with James Conner, but not into the end zone, but they ran in the middle of the field.

They've got two great running backs. They have a good offensive line. I just, I don't want to go there. I just don't, like the NFL just has this way of you think a team is toast, you think they're done, and then all of a sudden they surprise you. But you're the schedule picker. So 11-2.

11-2 it is. Bears coming to US Bank Stadium with a new head football coach. And my friend Kaylin Kaler had to just – you see what what she did espn kaylin kaylor i did not she did online oh she took gasoline poured it all around lit a match threw it up and walked away she said the bears should trade for kevin o'connor hey you know what i mean it's not to happen, but I'm not mad at that. Yeah, you know, they should trade for Vince Lombardi, too. I'm not mad at that thought.

Sorry, Bill Walsh might not be available. They're going to have to get maybe Marvvy and uh mike holmgren on the coaching staff no there's how but what would you what would you trade koc for assuming it can't be caleb williams like what what would you what would you trade the head coach of this team for i i know i i would trade him for one guy on his couch who's a better play caller. Come on. It had to be said. Two first-round picks and a player. That's it.

At least. I was thinking three. I was thinking three firsts. Yeah. Probably three firsts and a player. Yeah. It's like three firsts and DJ Moore. Monte Sweat.

It's not enough. It's like three firsts and like DJ more. Montez Sweat. I don't, it's not enough. It's not enough because if you get Mike Tomlin, Sean McVay, one of these guys who can just be great for many, many years as your head coach, you can't put a price on it. You really can't. I probably wouldn't trade him away for five firsts, maybe for five firsts. So, but I mean, really like what, what he's been able to do. So anyway, they beat the bears. Who's coaching him.

I think it is Thomas Brown. I think it's Thomas Brown. Yeah. How about, how about his sort of story arc over the last couple of weeks? It's like, oh, you're, you know, just an assistant. And then you get promoted to offensive coordinator. And then like within a week, you're also you know, just an assistant. And then you get promoted to offensive coordinator. And then like within a week, you're also now interim head coach. What a run for him the last couple of weeks.

Oh, Zikla Bo was not available? I'm just thinking of great, great coaches. Like what? They couldn't get Bill Cower? They couldn't get, they think they're going to trade for KOC? Okay. Anyway, sorry. Are they eating the bears?

I'm fascinated to see how the bears play this first game. Post Matt Eberflus. Coming this weekend. And who do they have this week? The bears. I do not know. They should have been more prepared for this. Well, I'm just fascinated.

Oh, they're at San Francisco on Sunday and the Niners are banged up. The Bears might actually win that game. They could win that game. Yeah. The post-coach firing is real. That's a boost. That will be kind of interesting i'm also thinking like okay well ibra fluce isn't in that building anymore

and he was he was the defensive mind that always would kind of like you said a lot would give koc some problems well now he's not there anymore how much of an impact is that going to have on the bears defense they still have some pretty good players over there it was Sweat and Jalen Johnson all those guys but you got to wonder like how his absence as the defensive schemer uh with Iberflues how what kind of impact that's going to have on that side of the ball um and I think factoring that in I think the Vikings would be able to move the ball a little bit do and just enough. I could see this being kind of close just because it's familiarity with the division rival and everything. But I think the Vikings will come out on top and improve to 12 and 2. Holy cow.

One of these is not going to work out. So I think you're going to pick the next one to not work out against the Seattle Seahawks, December 22nd. Is that right? Because I mean, seven wins in a row is kind of crazy. How many games in a row did they win in 98? Like what was their longest? Seven.

They started out seven and oh, and then lost at Tampa and then won the one eight in a row and finished 15 and one. And really it was nine and nine in a row. If you count the playoff game, but if they get to 12 and two in their one score games we'll still hear that they're not good enough right um yeah this this is i can see this being a loss at seattle um you see ox again another team kind of like arizona you

just kind of we've been saying this for weeks you don don't really know. They're kind of the quintessential 500-ish team that sometimes they look great. Other times they look really just bad. They've actually been a better road team this year than they have been at home, which is kind of hard to believe. They kind of took care of business against the Jets yesterday, which, speaking of dumpster fires, New York Jets. Did you watch the game? I saw some highlights.

I suggest that you watch the game. It's one of the stupidest games ever played in national football league history. The Seattle Seahawks gave up a touchdown kick return. They fumbled the kick return. They bungled everything under the earth and still found a way to win it was it was ludicrous there's somebody had a tweet with the list of things that happened i went back and watched some of the like the extended highlights it's just a comedy show i have no idea how the

new york jets lost that football game other than that their quarterback is just awful now weird Just awful. Now weird old guys coming back from Achilles. I feel terrible. I'm their age. I feel terrible every day. I'm sure you do too. How did these guys think they're going to come back from Achilles? And if one person, if Sam Donald leaves in free agency,

and if one person suggests Aaron Rodgers coming here, I'm going to throw up like I've never had before i want nothing to do with that nothing to do with that no i think we'll be okay there uh so that makes them 12 and three and then they play the packers at home now this game i have circled this game manny because i think this is the one where everybody decides whether they believe the vikings can win the super bowl or not that's not a rational thing to do but that is the one where everybody decides whether they believe the Vikings can win the Super Bowl or not. That's not a rational thing to do, but that is the thing that all the fans will do. What they were doing on Sunday was, I don't know.

Yeah, I guess this team kind of having and not really getting into it until the end of the game when they were about to win this if they're beating the packers at home then the belief will be on the entire state will go crazy but if they lose everyone's gonna say ah same old vikings so what do you think uh i think they're gonna win this game really i think they're going to win this game. Really? I think they're going to win this game. And I think that's going to put them at 13-3. And I think that's going to make Week 18 at Detroit absolutely massive. Because the Lions, a little bit banged up on defense now,

kind of survived a close win against the Bears, where the Bears just kind of fumbled that thing away uh with that little meltdown at the end the lions have a little bit of a tough schedule they gotta they gotta play the buffalo bills here they gotta play green bay this thursday and then then they gotta host the buffalo bills who are playing great right now um we might be looking at both of these teams being 13 and three ish at week 18. And that's where it's going to be for all the marbles for the NFC North, obviously. And maybe even depending on what Philadelphia does over the next few weeks for

that number one seed in that first round by as well, it's going to be huge. It's going to be massive for now., I'll call it a Lions win. Lions take the division. Vikings finish 13-4. So you had stuck on 12 wins for a few weeks, and now you upped the ante to 13. I think that's fair because you thought they weren't going to beat Arizona. You were almost very right about that. They end up coming away, really escaping a game they should have lost against Arizona, and now face an Atlanta team they can beat,

a Chicago team they can beat. Seattle's interesting, and the Packers game will be the toughest challenge. Question for you. Lions and Packers, would you rather see the lions win and sort of not entirely concede the division but say like all right well or would you rather see the packers win and keep the gap this close with all three teams what do you think is better i think the packers winning i think would make it better and i think would help the vikings because now at that point the vikings are really in a in in a position where i don't want to say control their own destiny but like you you win you know if you you win two out of these next three

atlanta chicago seattle and you're 12 and you know you're you're let's say you're 12 and that put them at 12 and 3 right yeah 12 and 3 going into that green bay game now you've got green bay minnesota detroit all really bunched up at the top and if you're the vikings at that point you beat green bay and then you beat Detroit in week 18. I would imagine that the division is yours at that point. So I, you know, I feel like a Lions win on Thursday kind of brings the Packers back into the conversation of really competing for a wild card because I dropped them to nine and four. And then the Lions are 11 and one and still really in the driver's seat of the division. And now at that point, it's really just the Vikings. That's the only team that can challenge them.

So I'm kind of talking out of both sides of my mouth because a Packers loss would kind of almost eliminate them. Well, pretty much would eliminate them from winning the division because they'd be two and a half games back. And the Lions will have swept them, and so it would be really hard for them to catch Detroit at that point. But, you know, Packers win just keeps those three teams bunched up together, and now it's just whoever kind of wins all the games between each other will ultimately win the division. So it's going to be fascinating.

Yeah, I think the right answer is that you want the Packers to win. I think because you're trying to win the division, you're trying to get the number one seed in the conference, which is still on the table. A few weeks ago, we probably would have maybe said it the other way because you want to keep the Packers behind you. But now that you're at at 10 and 2 your eyes should be on a race between three teams the Eagles the Lions and the Vikings for winning the entire conference because if they could find a way to win the conference then you are talking about a first round by and then home field for the divisional round and all you got to do is win one game and you're in the championship i mean

the nfc championship i like holy cow so you want to chase that with every bit of your soul which means you really need the packers to win this game and you mentioned that the lions will have to play buffalo the lions don't have anybody on defense left their defense is so banged up that if they stumble a little bit here and Houston doesn't give them a game away with the five interceptions, but we saw their offense stumble in the second half against Chicago and they should have lost the game. And if that happens against green Bay, their coach knows how to, you know, call time out. So I assume that I think Matt LaFleur is a really good coach. So I assume he could call time out, uh, and win the then they go to buffalo they got a great coach they got a great team they

got a better quarterback there than detroit does they look like a behemoth the bills look like their favorites for the super bowl i think hands down now with the way that they've played recently yeah it's not over if you win against atlanta and the packers win you're right there and it could be collision course for week 18 for that game being who wins the conference who wins the division get the home playoff game i mean there's a lot there's a lot on the line yeah i know some of you ty uh taylor says you know can't root for the packers under any condition how about this condition this condition makes a lot, can't root for the Packers under any condition. How about this condition? This condition makes a lot of sense to root for the Packers.

Actually, the condition that your team can chase the championship of the conference is really a condition that you should kind of make an exception. Yeah, I think the key part of this, too, of this whole scenario is the fact that you have a win over the Packers already. So them sort of being tied with you right now, because you have that tiebreaker over them doesn't, doesn't hurt you as much. Whereas Detroit has the win over you. So you're kind of wanting other teams. If you want to catch Detroit, you're hoping that other teams can, can beat them,

give them another loss or two, and then you're being in a position in Week 18 that if you can beat them, you salvage the season split with them, and depending on how those tiebreakers go, it might put you in a position to win the division. You've already got the one up on the Packers to where it doesn't matter that they have the same record as you or if they're only a game behind you at this point because you're essentially still like two games up on them because you have the game in hand on them and then if you just beat them on december 29th you

will have swept them and then you've got all the tiebreakers over them it doesn't matter if you finish with the same record as them so because detroit has that one up on you you kind of want somebody else to step in and kind of do you a favor by beating them. And in this case on Thursday, it's, it could be the Packers. We'll see.

All right. We will see. And you and I will be doing a show on Thursday last week. I screwed up and previewed our Thursday show, not realizing it was Thanksgiving. Some of us still did a show anyway, after Thanksgiving, after what the bears

did, I had to go live. I had to talk about that. You should have seen me. I'm over at my mom's on Thursday and we've got the game on. It's my mom and my mom's partner. And my, my brother-in-law, my sister and my nephews were all over there. And I'm like the only one we're all watching the game. And I'm the only one that're all watching the game i'm the only one that's like losing my mind with what the bears are doing as the clock is ticking down i'm like oh my god what are they doing they're letting the clock run down are you guys watching this what is going on what are they doing oh my god i can't believe they did that and my mom's just kind of looking like oh wow my mom who's not into football at all she's just like oh wow oh my son is very passionate about this i know i don't know why

so it was pretty funny i never yell at the tv like i just sit there and watch whatever happens and sometimes i'll be surprised like everybody else and read what the internet's saying or whatever i was yelling at the tv i was yelling timeout timeout timeout uh like what are you doing like just just football kind of like actually uh kevin seifert will tell you that in the press box yesterday when jonathan gannon did not go for it i stood up out of my chair and yelled to the other guys on our row now consider it's loud in there it's not like i was interrupting other reporters like it's just judd and alec lewis and cipher but i yelled i can't believe he didn't go for it and they were like why just put them up six and i'm like god they're gonna win the game and they're like you're

a crazy person but this is an like an analytical thing and uh greg olsen i saw today that he had said it on the broadcast like it influences how your opponent is going to play. They're going to be aggressive. They're going to play for the win. And O'Connell even dropped that in today saying that like, yeah, we had to have a four down mentality. We had to be more aggressive. And so I guess nothing tweaks out my brain quite like mismanagement of games.

And I completely lost it. So then I had to talk about it for an hour after that, but this Thursday night, it will be favorite Falcons, which is a great, great list to make. So we will have that on Thursday. We will preview the game and react to whatever's going on when we're on to

Thursday night football. So that'll be a lot of fun. Thanks Manny for your time. And I will see you on Thursday. Appreciate you, man. Sounds good. Football. Football. All right.